Warning! - Political question ahead - enter at your own risk!

[Melman]

I was at lunch with a friend a couple of days ago when all of a sudden she said, "hey, there goes Rudy Giuliani!" I was sitting in a booth and couldn't get even a glimpse of him. I could see the cars in his entourage outside the restaurant.

I've never personally had any great feelings toward Giuliani. I used to watch Donna Hanover on FoodTV years ago and really liked her show. This was LONG before I became so intereted in the political world. (Now, that's one of my favorite past-times...reading news, blogs, etc.) I remember when they went through their very public divorce...and how she tried to keep him from bringing his girlfriend to the mayor's house (while they were still married.)

That's my limited background of knowledge. From what I gather, many people don't think that being the mayor of NYC is quite the background for US President. I've read articles of particular groups that don't like him for various reasons. I've had one acquaintance say he used to live near NYC, and he thought he did a great job cleaning up crime...and that he respects Guiliani a great deal.

For those of you who live, or have lived, in the NYC area, what are your thoughts? I'd love this to not turn into our typical political threads, but I suppose we're not ever going to see that happen. To be honest, I'll be in meetings next week with this acquaintance and I want to have facts in case this topic comes up.
:D

THANKS!

[jmarie]

There are a lot of governors who have gone on to be Presidents....And one would think being a mayor of NYC might be more challenging than being the governor of a small midwestern state....I'm not sure.

I have no opinion regarding him running for President. A lot of people run, but only one will get the nomination.

[avariell]

There are a lot of governors who have gone on to be Presidents....And one would think being a mayor of NYC might be more challenging than being the governor of a small midwestern state....I'm not sure.

I have no opinion regarding him running for President. A lot of people run, but only one will get the nomination.

do small midwestern states actually exist?!? :p :D

[Gumbeaux]

I don't think he can get elected to a national office. He is too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for liberals.

Just my .02

[Angelina]

I loved him as Mayor. I really don't know if he is qualified to be President...he's a real NYC guy, with all the bad and good things that go with that. He's tough, he's smart, he's compassionate and he's loyal, but I am sure there are many things about him that might strike people the wrong way.

If I could, I would vote for him though. He was our 9/11 Mayor and I give him a lot of credit for helping the city through those tough days.

Angela

[avariell]

I don't think he can get elected to a national office. He is too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for liberals.

Just my .02

it would be nice to have someone moderate. sigh. we, as a country, are so divided at the moment... who will unite us?

[LA98]

I don't really think he's electable either, but I wish he was.

I admit I have not researched the facts, but from what I recall he had an excellent record as attorney general, very tough on organized crime and drugs. I also think he was a great mayor. Speaking as someone who navigated the streets of Times Square every day for years, having to walk past what seemed like hundreds of porno places, walking around people lying in the streets, crunching crack vials under your feet, and so on, I loved how he cleaned up the area and the city in general. Criticize all you like about "Disney-fying" Times Square, it's a 1000% improvement over what it was! And of course, his leadership on 9/11 is something I'll never forget. He was just so human that day, you could see it in his face and hear it in his words. He was in pain, as the person in charge of the city, but also as a New Yorker. He lost close friends that day, as many others did. I know he's a politician and they're supposed to be good at that stuff, but it never felt "put on" to me and I sure never got that connected feeling from W in the days following... JMHO.

[honeygirl1971]

I don't think he can get elected to a national office. He is too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for liberals.

Just my .02

That's sort of my gut instinct too, but I don't know enough about his political platform to form a really informed opinion yet. So, he's sort of a question mark for me still.

The stuff about his marriage/divorce is certainly not pretty, but I don't really consider that kind of stuff when making political decisions--for me it's MUCH more important what the person wants to do for the country. I'd be interested to hear from some more of the New Yorkers (or former New Yorkers) on the BB on this topic...

[blazedog]

I don't think he can get elected to a national office. He is too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for liberals.

Just my .02

I think the problem is getting NOMINATED by the Republican Party because the base is so conservative.

A moderate could very easily be elected by the national electorate.

Both Bush and Clinton were elected because they managed to capture the critical swing voters who think of themselves as "moderate."

[honeygirl1971]

I think the problem is getting NOMINATED by the Republican Party because the base is so conservative.



Yes, that's actually what I meant too.

[Kay Henderson]

Living very far away from NYC, I have no experience on which to form an opinion on Giuliani.

Instead, I am responding to your query as to how qualified a mayor would be to become president of the US.

In the 20th century, most presidents were drawn from the ranks of governors and senators. Curious as to how the population of NYC compares to that of the states, I looked it up. NYC's population (somewhat more than 8 million) is greater than that of 39 states. Mayor and governor are both executive type positions, as is president. Therefore, I would conclude that being the mayor of a large city would be quite good preparation. The individual would need to have developed an interest and knowledge base of foreign policy and challenges, but this is true for governors without national experience as well.

Kay

[SusanMac]

I've heard that lots of NY people hate him/think he did a horrible job. But, since I never followed that at the time, I have no idea what they're referring to. So, like Melman indicated, not to turn this into a Guliani-bashing thread....I really am curious what he didn't manage so well? What exactly has given him a bad wrap? I've only seen the 9/11-Guliani (which impressed me, but isn't enough to cast a vote on)

[Melman]

Since I posted this question, I appreciate the comments so far. Instead of responding to each one, I'm reading the comments and trying to process my thoughts. Please continue with your opinions and comments. This is very interesting.

THANKS!

[blazedog]

I've heard that lots of NY people hate him/think he did a horrible job. But, since I never followed that at the time, I have no idea what they're referring to. So, like Melman indicated, not to turn this into a Guliani-bashing thread....I really am curious what he didn't manage so well? What exactly has given him a bad wrap? I've only seen the 9/11-Guliani (which impressed me, but isn't enough to cast a vote on)

This might shed some light on his unpopularity prior to 9/11 -- and frankly, WHAT did he do except look like a leader.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/12/05/giuliani/

Many of the police and firemen died in the WTC because there was a complete breakdown in communications in terms of the equipment -- so where was the NY prevention -- Granted it wasn't a debacle like Katrina with 1000's stranded but in terms of actual damage to the infrastructure and inhabitants affected (except from a pyschological point of view), it was less of a crisis than eathquakes (for example) in California within the past decade.

I dislike his current weasling on social issues in an attempt to suck up to the Christian right -- along with that other weasel Romney.

[HRJ]

Former New Yorker here ...

First, I'd have to say that if you can survive being mayor of NYC with any sort of reasonable success, you can probably handle the presidency, or almost any other task in the world, for that matter -- I imagine there are few other places on earth that are more inherently ungovernable (but that may just be the New Yorker in me speaking ;) )

Anyway, to Giulani's credit, he rose to the occasion after 9/11, which was something both the city and the country sorely needed. And the city did turn around, particularly in regard to crime, while he was mayor, although I think a lot of the credit for that also has to go to the general upturn of the economy during that time.

But, as others have said, I can't imagine that he'd be able to get the GOP nomination, because he is too socially moderate for the Republican base -- in particular, as long as he continues to show some degree of support for abortion rights, however slight, I'd be surprised if he gets anywhere.

And, he brings a lot of baggage from his affair/divorce, and his very public and bitter dealings with Donna Hanover -- even for voters who aren't overly concerned with a candidate's personal life, his behavior during that time did show a certain lack of awareness of public "diplomacy," for lack of a better word. (IMHO, I think he's always had a certain streak of megalomania...) I think that would be a tremendous liablity during a campaign. And, I think he's just too "New York" to play well on a national scale.


Personally, I'd never vote for him, even if he did make it to the general election, because of his support for the war in Iraq, and the troop escalation. Also because his "support" of abortion rights is extremely tenuous, and when he starts saying things like he'd appoint more judges and justices like Scalia, Roberts and Alito -- well, that's not what I want for the future of our country. But, obviously, I'm not the sort of voter the GOP has any hopes of wooing for '08 anyway.

Melman, here are a couple of links that may interest you, if you're looking for more information:

Giuliani on Iraq: "In every speech he makes, Rudolph W. Giuliani talks about Iraq and makes clear that he sides with President Bush, endorsing the war and the deployment of 21,500 more troops.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/us/politics/14rudy.html?ex=1172466000&en=1d363c235ae427f3&ei=5070

Giuliani on abortion rights: "As he prepares for a possible run for president — a road that goes deep into the heart of conservative America — Rudolph W. Giuliani takes with him a belief in abortion rights that many think could derail his bid to capture the Republican nomination.

But in recent weeks, as he has courted voters in South Carolina and talked to conservative media outlets, Mr. Giuliani has highlighted a different element of his thinking on the abortion debate. He has talked about how he would appoint “strict constructionist” judges to the Supreme Court — what abortion rights advocates say is code among conservatives for those who seek to overturn or limit Roe v. Wade, the 1973 court ruling declaring a constitutional right to abortion.

The effect has been to distance himself from a position favoring abortion rights that he espoused when he ran for mayor of New York City, where most voters favor abortion rights.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/10/us/politics/10rudy.html?ex=1328763600&en=1d5b426d9c2657e4&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss



Helene

[Melman]

Helene, those are some of the reasons I started this conversation in the first place. Those are the types of articles I've been reading. I kind of wondered about the other point-of-view. I've also read recently that he's using one of Bush's favorite techniques for speeches and crowds...only surround yourself with those groups of people who are friendly or who won't ask negative questions. When Giuliani was in SC earlier this week, his speech was in front of a group of first-responders.


Thanks for the links! There may be others interested in reading them as well.

[bobmark226]

This might shed some light on his unpopularity prior to 9/11 -- and frankly, WHAT did he do except look like a leader.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/12/05/giuliani/




Thank you, that's an excellent article that pretty much matches my own perceptions when living through his "regime." And while I try to separate any politician from her personal life, his humiliation of Hanover was truly disgusting and spoke volumes about his character.

Bob

[SusanMac]

Interesting. Thanks.

[Kay Henderson]

Melmen, a parenthetical -- thanks for starting this thread. I thoroughly enjoy political debate as long as it does not sink into name-calling. The gracious way you introduced your topic has resulted in a most enlightening discussion.

Kay

[JenniferJJ]

I truly hope that he does not win the Republican Committee's nomination. As a conservative in all ways but the environment (which I find a misnomer since the "liberal" position is to conserve the environment), I take issue with his liberal social stances, in particular his stance on abortion. I don't believe his current leaning toward the Pro-Life position on this as it seems he is only doing so because he knows he needs to do that to get votes.

I do realize that there are people who would consider themselves conservatives on financial and foreign policy issues, and liberal on social issues. However, I think it would be hard for a Pro-Choice Republican to get nominated/elected, just as I think it would be hard for a Pro-Life Democrat to get nominated/elected.

I also think that what he did to his wife was awful. IMO, character counts.

However, many people may not think about these things and just think of him as "American's mayor" because of his role in 911. Indeed, as the salon article states, he is close to McCain in poplularity. He is a great speaker: He was on the campaign tour for MI governor candidate Dick DeVos this past fall. I attended a rally where he spoke, and he was really captivating.