Have U experienced change in friendship if U have kids, friend doesn't & vice versa?

[greek salad]

Many of my friends are married and have children (I am single, no kids) and with some of my friends I have definitely experienced a definite change in the friendship with some of them. And, I have realized that those that I have experienced this with are a combo of SAHM and those that also work out of the home --- so that variable doesn't seem to make a difference in my situation.

I certainly understand that they don't have the free time that they once did, so I have no problem that we will likely speak less often and see each other less often.

However, one of my friends has a 3 year old -- and I can count on my hands on how many times she has called me in the last few years. It seems that I do all the calling, and if I get her machine, she is not good about returning the call in anything halfway "timely". I know that when she gets home from the office, she is incredibly busy -- making dinner, feeding her kid, bathtime etc, doing chores, and the crashing for the night. But I would think on the weekend, or when she is home during the day, she would be able to find some time to catch up. I just feel our friendship is so on the back burner.

I was never one to keep track of who calls who and when but it bothers me that I seem to be the one that has to call to keep in touch.

I do get some emails but they are mostly just pictures of her child. Don't get me wrong, love seeing the pictures but I wouldn't mind just a few quick sentences too.

When we do speak on the phone we have a good conversation, so that is not the issue. I know that we can't have the marathon calls like we used to but I would think she could squeeze in a quick call. Or, since she works three days a week (and two days from home) she could at least email and say something like.... sorry I missed your call, things are real busy, blah, blah, how are you, blah, blah...

The times I have decided to take a break from the one calling, and hold off for a few months.... she is likely to call when it gets to be a few months.

I haven't said anything to you, I just let it annoy me. I am thinking of saying something but not sure what to say and how to say it.

For those of you that have kids, have you experienced a change in your relationships with your friends that don't have kids. And, vice versa. Does it bother you? Would you like to change it? Have you said anything?

Thanks,

[cchhbb]

DH and I had made a nice couple friend shortly before I became pregnant with DS1. Things were going great, we hung out together a lot. We announced my pregnancy and that was about the last time I heard from them. It was weird.

As a mother of 2 little kids, I do think that it is difficult to keep in touch with people who don't have kids. I do it, but it is much easier for me to plan a playdate with a girlfriend who has kids the same age as mine as it is to go out with my single friends.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.
Cheryl

[jjsooner73]

I've learned that when you feel like you are the only one putting in the effort, maybe there is a reason and it's time to let go. I've experienced this with married and single friends alike, friends close and far away. It just happens.
Sometimes it sucks, but then you are free to focus on friendships that are 2 sided and not just you doing all the work.

Having said that, I recently moved back to the area I grew up and went to college. I had dinner w/ a friend last night who I hadn't seen in about 8 years or talked to in almost as long. She got married, I moved away, and we just drifted. Now we work very near each other. She's still married, I'm still single, but it was like old times in so many ways. I hope we are able to stay in touch now, though I realized our friendship won't be the way it was as she's no longer the single party girl. I'm not the way I was back in our early 20s, but our lives are very different though we both said we felt like the same people we were back then!

[greek salad]

Jennifer,

It would be sad to lose touch but your are right, I don't like having to carry the friendship.

It just seems strange to grow apart after so many years with certain friends.

I too also just got back in touch with a school friend -- probably lost touch for 10 years. She has elementary school kids. We chat every few weeks and its great talking about what is going on with each other and our lives are so different.

It is really just one friend -- who I used to speak to so often -- that I feel that we are moving apart.

In a way I just want to say something. I just don't think she realizes that effort has to be put in from both sides.

[Delanl]

I am going through a similar situation right now too. My best friend has two children and over the years it has become increasingly harder to get in touch with her. I just got married, so I am partly to blame too as I have been in major "stay at home with my hubby" mode. But I have always felt that I am ALWAYS the one who has to reach out first. I understand that she is busy, but she is at work all day in front of a computer just like I am, and I seem to find time to shoot off an e-mail every now and then.

Just recently we (finally!!) made plans to have dinner one Friday night. We planned it a week ahead so she knew her husband would be home to watch the kids, etc. He ended up having to work late so that got cancelled. So we rescheduled for lunch the following Saturday, only for her to get called into work so we rescheduled for Sunday, only for her to come down with the stomach flu. They are all valid reasons and I completely understand, but I haven't heard from her since. If it was me, I would've called/e-mailed and said I'm sorry about this weekend, let's reschedule. I wouldn't be surprised if weeks go by until I hear from her again. Its very frustrating and I often wonder why I even bother. But we've been friends for 13 years and I am god-mother to her daughter. Sometimes I feel like I value our friendship more than she does.

Also, I have brought this up to her before and she apologizes and says she's busy with work, the kids, etc. and will try harder. But she never really does....maybe its time for me to let go....

[KimKelly]

Jennifer,


It is really just one friend -- who I used to speak to so often -- that I feel that we are moving apart.



You are moving apart... you have different things in you lives, different things that take priority, different day to day activities. That may not mean that she thinks any less/differently of you though.

I have a number of friends who (is this where I use "whom"????) I don't speak to as often as I used to. Things get really busy for all of us. Many of us have openly talked about our lack of communications, and we understand that it's not personal, things are just hectic. I know that when my email is not responded to quickly that she most likely read it, and when things slow down she will respond. And she always does... eventually!

So just know that it really may not be personal at all :)

I know it's frustrating to be the one to carry the friendship though. Best of luck to you, I wish I had better advice!!!

Kim

[greek salad]

Thanks everyone for the replies -- it is interesting to hear different points of view.

Kim, I know that she doesn't think less of our friendship, I just think she is oblivious. I know she is busy and I don't expect her to call back the same day or even the next. But I guess I expect maybe even just an email to check in (or acknowledge that she missed the call) would be good. And the relationship needs to be more two sided.

I just always thought if you are truly friends (not like perhaps some friendships that are not that deep but perhaps friendships of convenience.... live in the same bldg, work together) that you would stay together even when your lives take different paths. Maybe not always the case....

[jjsooner73]

I just always thought if you are truly friends (not like perhaps some friendships that are not that deep but perhaps friendships of convenience.... live in the same bldg, work together) that you would stay together even when your lives take different paths. Maybe not always the case....

I think for some people, family becomes so much more important when they get married/have kids/become immersed in their career that friendship isn't as important to them as it may be to you. It's nothing personal; some people's priorities just change.
It took a death in my family for me to realize this about some people. On the other hand, their were other friends who it seemed like maybe had become more distant who were there.
Again, I finally realized it wasn't personal. It's just a matter of different priorities for different people.

[mbrogier]

I think for some people, family becomes so much more important when they get married/have kids/become immersed in their career that friendship isn't as important to them as it may be to you. It's nothing personal; some people's priorities just change.
It took a death in my family for me to realize this about some people. On the other hand, their were other friends who it seemed like maybe had become more distant who were there.
Again, I finally realized it wasn't personal. It's just a matter of different priorities for different people.


ITA. When we first moved to Chicago, we were friends with a couple that my SIL knew from college. The girl was pregnant again (had a miscarriage the year before), but we did a lot of stuff together. For a little bit after her now 2 year old son was born we would still do things like go shopping or the park. Then the couple just fell off the map. We just ran into them at Costco last weekend. The man was working for a new company based in Boston, and we thought they had moved away. They didn't call or try to help when Rob almost died although they said they were aware of the situation. :eek: (he was in the hospital for 9 days, and I could have used some help.) I went with this girl to her medical appointments and was the backup driver if she needed to be taken to the hospital during her high risk pregnancy. She did a lot of stuff for me, too, but it became pretty obvious that I was the only one interested in continuing the friendship.

This wasn't the first time we noticed the big change after a couple has a baby.

[DebGo]

i was the last of my couple group to get married/have kids. when i was single and before my kids were born i was definitely the more aggressive phone caller, etc. i was okay with this though, as i knew it was easier for me. i also went out of my way to accommodate their schedules, their locations, etc. again, i was okay with this as i knew that was something friends did for each other.

fast forward. now i have 2 younger kids (2 & 4 now) and their kids are all a bit older (minimum elementary school -- some in middle school). now i know it gets busier all around as the kids get older (with sports and other activities) -- BUT (and this is a very BIG but) -- there is a huge chunk of time during the daytime when their kids are in school and mine are not. although i love my friends dearly, i have been disappointed with their lack of effort in getting together.

yes, life goes on. yes, i have new friends -- mostly with kids nearer to my age -- but i MISS the friendships i used to have. now we do see each other now and again. when we do get together it is definitely like no time has past, which is nice but i still long for the chats over coffee, long lingering dinners and wine tasting evenings (yes, all done with THEIR kids around).

time marches on.

[jjsooner73]

One more thing--my parents have lived in the same area for most of their lives (they both moved away briefly but came back). While I was growing up, their friends were my friends' parents. Rather, their social circle were those whose children I ran with or played sports with or whatever. Now that all of us children are grown, my parents circle has sort of evolved to a different group, many of which they've known since before they had kids. It's like they've come full circle. Today, they had lunch with a married couple that they've known for better than 45 years (dad is 60 and mom 57). I think they've had those stages where they didn't talk as much because of kids (though we were all close in age, we went to different schools and were involved in different activities). So...there's always a chance things change.

I got an email this morning from a friend I haven't talked to in about a year. We both moved from our home state, so have only seen each other once in the last 9 years. She's coming to visit her mom and college age daughters and called me last minute. We're going to get together, if only for a meal and I know that even though we haven't talked as much since she got married 10 years ago (I was maid of honor), it will be like old times.
I feel like this has been a reunion week of sorts--it's been nice. :)

[mgs]

I have been on both sides (actually a third side also when we both have kids the relationship changes as well)

At first I truly didn't understand how even my sister didn't have time to call or email me EVER when she had kids. She worked full time and was busy but so what? what happened to the eve or weekends? And it is pretty easy to shoot off an email. You don't have to have a 2 way converstation.

Then I had my son in my life and things went all screwy. I realized suddenly I had become my sister! I suddenly couldn't find one minute in my day where I literally had the energy to call a friend. I was still sending a few emails but not much. I was mentally and physically exhausted and when my son was asleep or had some down time (eve or weekends) I just wanted my mind to go numb. I would think of my friends all the time but I didn't even have the energy to make a call. It sounds odd, I am sure, but it takes some effort and energy to have a good heart to heart with a friend. This is what my experience was like. Now, I am SAHM so I am a little better - now that ds is 18 months old - but I can tell you if I worked full time I doubt it would be much better at all. I am not a bad person and I hated people like me before I had a kid but that is what happened to me. I don't like it but there is a time in your life when you are in survival mode and this is certainly one of those times.

I say keep calling her. In a few years when things calm down I hope she will start putting in her 1/2 but for now she still needs you.

I hope that gives you a little food for thought

Meg

[raka1214]

DH and I are on the end of not being able to have children but enjoy and rejoice with our friends who find out they are pregnant and give birth only to be left behind because "we don't have children and they don't want to bore us with all the kid-talk, you understand don't you?" crap. It is not something that is just perceived it is actually happening and what can we do? In fact, one of my dearest friends found out she was expecting her first child right after I had my 2nd miscarriage. As emotional as we both were we made it through our loss and their blessing. During her pregnancy, and having gone through the alienation once too many times, I asked her out to lunch and spilled my guts and asked her to not leave us out of their lives once the baby was born - that although we can't have children we LOVE to be involved with the children of the people we loved and counted as friends/family. She swore that wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah.......she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

I realize it's easier to talk to people who have gone through what you have just experienced BUT what about those people who have no choice in the matter? Am I a 2nd class citizen just because my body won't carry a pregnancy full term? Am I any less interested in your life NOW than I was before you gave birth?

So, I guess the long answer to your question is YES I have experienced this, it's not pretty and make you very gun shy and friend picky when it happens over and over again.

[BucknellAlum]

One of my oldest and dearest friends lives only 15 minutes from me, but I hardly ever see her. Another lives in the same school district and we have kids in the same schools, but I never see/hear from her either.

With both friends, when we do finally get in touch, it is like nothing has changed. But I am ALWAYS the one to send the email, leave the voicemail, etc. It does bother me a lot.

I definitely attribute it to our different choices in lifestyles. I stayed at home with my kids for many years, and now work parttime and am active in a couple of community groups where I have amde other friends, etc.

My friends both work fulltime at very demanding jobs, and on the weekends their kids are very busy with soccer, piano, basketball leagues, etc.

While I would love to get together more, I don't want to push it at the cost of their family time. When would we see each other? Would she miss some kid games and have to have someone carpool her kids? Would she miss a relaxing night at home with her DH after a hard week, to go out with me?

Don't get me wrong, I wish it were different. But it is not as if they are dropping me as a friend. In fact one of them just said to me that I was the only real friend she sees and the other said they never socialize with other couples, etc. as they just don't have the time. When you are away from your home until 7 or 8 every night, and out of the house most of the weekend, going for a coffee with a friend falls way down on the to-do list.

Do I wish it were different? Sure, I would love it if one of these friends had a schedule that permitted her to work alongside me in a community organization, or have a day to go to lunch. But that can't happen, so I am supposed to drop the friend because of that? I can't see doing that either.

Sorry for the vent!

[jmarie]

[QUOTE]but I MISS the friendships I used to have. Now we do see each other now and again. when we do get together it is definitely like no time has past,......

I totally agree with what you are saying here.

As the mother of grown children, I can tell you that these dear dear friends will be there for the long run. Things may get a little sparce, but when there is a need, this friend will be there for you.

I just had a friend call me whom I hadn't talked to in over a year. (I happened to run into her when I was called in for random drug-testing for my job and she was at the hospital with her mom) Anyway....she called me yesterday and we picked up where we left off a year ago. She is mostly staying with her mom who has alzeheimers now and so her time is limited...I am so blessed that she is my friend and I know that she will always be there for me even though we are both pressed for time right now.

I have other friends who I will eventually be back in with as soom they their calandar clears. Hang in there!

Joyce

[ChristineVA]

As someone who has two children who are getting older (and I'm now getting my life back:o ) let me tell you, it just happens.

I remember the "early" years of my kids--when they were toddlers and I also worked full-time, it was exhausting. Prior to kids, I was an avid reader. Read several books a week, actually sat and "listened" to music. That all stopped. I had no time for it. In the last few years, since my kids have gotten older, I have gotten back into reading and I now am back to have "marathon" phone calls with my friends that have NOTHING to do with the kids.

Your friend is, literally, consumed right now with work and her child. Believe me, she wants to have friends and continue like she used to, but there is no time. When she does get 5 free minutes, she probably sits down and stares at the wall and takes a deep breath. I know it's hard to understand but I was like this. Even when your friend is at work and she gets a free moment, she's probably thinking "When do I need to take the child to the pediatrician for his/her next well-child exam?" "When does the next Gymboree session start--let me call them?" "Susie has a birthday party on Saturday, let me RSVP." Just this little stuff. She probably keeps thinking "Hey, when I get a good chunk of time, I'm going to sit down and call my friend." But that chunk of time never comes.

All I can say is to just hang in there for her. She will probably be back!

[stefania4]

I've had it happen, but I've also had it not happen. When a friend becomes a Mom I usually try to sometimes suggest doing a kid-thing and sometimes a no-kid thing when we get together. That usually works pretty well.

I can honestly say I've never had a Mom-friend tell me that my obligations are somehow less important than hers. If anything, my friends with kids have told me how happy they are that I'm out volunteering since they don't have the time. They're doing important work in raising good kids and being quality role models, I'm doing important work helping to take care of drug-addicted/abused babies. I do important work with disability advocacy. They do important work as doctors, lawyers, businesswomen, artists, etc. It all matters because WE say it matters.

Sometimes, though, someone has a baby and is suddenly all kidtalk, all the time. Of the few women I know who tried to stay at home nearly all fled back to the office within a few months, so it's not a SAHM/Working Mom thing. I had one friend who I finally had to just drop because I couldn't bear to listen to one more thing about her kids; if I mentioned politics she countered with potty training, if I mentioned vacation plans she talked about pre-school and if I suggested shopping she wouldn't leave BabyGap. This went on for two years and enough was enough.

All I can say is that life throws lots of changes at us - jobs (or not), spouses (or not), elderly parents, children (or not), etc. It's a rare pair of friends who weather all of that together, and I'm profoundly grateful for A, who I've known since we were 12, and Other A, my college roommate.

[HejazSunKat]

I have a hard time keeping up with my friends and family even without kids. I feel like I (and I'm sure many of us) live on a very accelerated plane where there is sometimes not one minute in the day that belongs to me but is filled with an obligation, a 'gotta do...'. I just had my performance review at work and the subject of going back to school came up. I told my boss (a mother of 4 year old twins with a very demanding job so she gets running in 100 directions) that given how busy I already am with professional and personal commitments I was hesitant to take on one more thing for fear I could not do full justice to any of it (or that I would have a nervous breakdown!). Maybe some people do just drop all their friends from their single lives when they start their families but I think for many people the older we get the more complicated life becomes and the harder it gets to keep on top of it all. I think for people with small children there's also alot of guilt involved with taking 'me' time even though I think it's healthy for the entire family if Mom or Dad sneaks off for some grown-up fun and conversation now and then. I just try to be understanding of what my friends are dealing with in their lives and appreciate all the more the rare times that we do get to spend together.

[applecrisp]

I experience a very similar thing with some of my married friends. One of my friends who I hardly ever hear from (much less than my other friends) asks for very little help from others (even though she is offered) so it is not hard to understand that she is swamped. No wonder she doesn't have any time to call, visit.

Some of her friends take turns in taking care of each others kids -- just so one of them could go out for a short bit to run an errand, see a friend. But she doesn't participate.

She basically does all the work around the house because she doesn't like the way her husband cooks, cleans etc.

I bet if she let go of some of the reins a bit --- I wonder if she would take the time to speak with, go out with her friends, go out with her husband as a treat for both. I don't know if she would congregate with her friends that also have kids, or also reach out to her friends that don't have kids.

I am going to call her next week and suggest that we get together -- with or without her little one. Hopefully she will say yes.

[cchhbb]

Some of her friends take turns in taking care of each others kids -- just so one of them could go out for a short bit to run an errand, see a friend. But she doesn't participate.

I'll admit that I don't let a lot of people watch my children because many of them will just plop them infront of the TV and call that babysitting. My children don't get to watch TV and so that really limits who I can let watch them. I only have one friend who has the same philosophy and she lives 20 minutes away so we don't tend to trade off childcare.

[ourthreegirls]

People change. Priorities change. With true friends, where you lie on their priority list (and vice versa) shouldn't change. But it does. I have experienced it quite a bit, unfortunately.

When my oldest was 14 months old, I gave birth to twins. I had friends fall off the face of the earth. They seemed to feel I didn't have time for them anymore.
My best friend from college. She and I were inseperable for awhile. Then we had a big falling out, didn't speak for awhile. Got back in touch, then we were closer than ever. (Even with several hundred miles between us). I got married and had kids first, then she followed. She and I have REALLY different parenting styles, and it got to where we didn't respect each other and the turns that each of our lives have taken. We both have a lot going on in our lives (who doesn't?) and it would be great to have that same old kinship we used to have, but it just doesn't work. People grow apart. It makes me sad that I don't have her to confide in anymore, but we just don't seem to be a priority in each others' lives anymore.
:o I probably didn't contribute a thing to this thread, but it really hit home with me. I guess my biggest point to make is that I have learned as people get older, their priorities shift drastically. I firmly believe if something is a priority for you, you MAKE time for it, and when I haven't heard from a friend in ages, that tells me our relationship isn't a priorty anymore....

One more thing to add....
I just remembered this. When I found out I was pregnant with twins, a good friend of my husband's first response was "GREAT, Robert won't be able to play golf ever again" :-( I will never forget that. People seem to just assume when kids come your way, you won't have much in common anymore (let alone time). IMO, that's just silly. OF COURSE you will have LESS time for YOU(and things important to you), but that doesn't mean your friends need to disappear completely.

Jennifer

[applecrisp]

ourthreegirls --

It was interesting to hear your perspective since you have children. That's why I love this BB.

Since I don't have kids, my experience is with those friends that have kids, and with some it feels that I am the one that is always calling, trying to get together etc. They seem to only want to spend time with those that have kids of similar ages. And, thankfully with others --- our differences doesn't have an impact on maintaining our friendship.

But as you said in the post... a similar experience might be felt by those that have kids. You also can feel growing apart from your single friends that stop making the effort. One of my friends that has children is experiencing something similar, she feels a change in her relationship with some friends, they have kids but the children are of different ages. Ah, another variable.

[Canice]

This is a great thread, and I've really appreciated reading so many different perspectives (raka1214, ChristineVA, and ourthreegirls have been especially helpful to me).
I was afraid it would deteriorate into a lot of hostility or judgment (and who knows - maybe it will ;) ) but these have been very measured and reasoned responses. Thanks for the insights.

Although this seems to be crazy in some places, it's not at all odd where I live: I'm 42 and have never been married or had kids. AND, I have old friends from grammar school, jr. high, and high school, many of whom are in my same situation -- some by choice, some not so much.

To be honest, I've had bouts of resentment with a couple of friends who had kids, moved out to the 'burbs and seemed to drop out of our friendship. Especially when my sister was dying and I thought they "should" be there to care about me. I had to care for my sister and my mom, and a childish part of me wanted someone to look after ME. As it had happened, when my father was dying, my dearest friend was giving birth, so of course she had huge priorities to focus on and couldn't help me. So I came to see friends having babies as their moving on in their lives and leaving me to deal with whatever I had to deal with - *my* problem. I was VERY resentful for a long time.

Honestly, much as I love those friends --and have learned to appreciate what time I have with them, and look on it as an investment in our relationship over the years-- my single friends are the only ones I can call on the phone when I want a good talk. They're the only ones who can go out for a walk or a Saturday breakfast or an after-work drink on a Wednesday. I'm glad to know my parenting friends love me, and that our friendships are for the long-run -- I have no intention of giving up on that...but I need day-to-day friends who can stroll and chat and whose worlds we both understand.

*Sigh*. It's all so complicated sometimes.

[Vanessa]

Interesting thread with different perpectives. We don't have kids and we have friends of different ages, bakgrounds and some have been married a while some not some have kids some waited yrs then had kids etc.
I would say that some "friends" have definitelly drifted apart.
I don't think in one case is because of kids but we have a couple who I have reached out send emails cards calls and they are MIA. We have other couple who remind me of ocean waves come and go. Then we have friends who live far but we are tight and keep connected thanks to AT &T. I have a friend that has known me so long we loose touch but when we reconnect its like we spoke yesterday.
I think some friends are really busy and their time is limited. It does hurt (of course) my advice is not to let it get to you too much.
Gosh even family members get so involved in soccer school work meeting deadlines they are MIA.
It is difficult because the one doing the "reaching out" feels left out ignored etc.
In my experience things constantly change. Friends get close then pull away due to all different reasons. Life is short then try to stay in touch and when friends do pull away then give them the space and time maybe they will come back if not then try expanding your circle of friends to add new friends maybe some that share same interest than you.

[greek salad]

Great input and very interesting to read the different views. I guess I need to take it less personally, which I admit is a little easier said than done. But I will try to attribute it more to her busy schedule etc.

It is interesting that it is one friend in particular that it is most noticeable to me. I thnk this is due in part that I used to speak with her all the time.... and then poof. Now I can leave a message and might not here back... going on over two weeks this time.

I do find it "interesting", or maybe the word is "annoying" that she picks up the phone usually after many months have passed. It is those times when I decide to take my "ok, I am tired of being the one to call, and I am going to hold off", and then she calls. It is like she just got used to me doing the work and then realizes.... hmmm, its been awhile.

It gets kind of tough since so many people my age are married and have families, so that pool of single people to hang out with..... Well, let's just say, need to do some more searching. But I will say that I have a bunch of married friends (with or without kids) that are just great --- we speak often (maybe not as much as in the past, but fine with me) and get together and have a great time. And, I am the one that always says... bring the pictures of the kids etc. And I mean it!:)

[mgs]

It is interesting that it is one friend in particular that it is most noticeable to me. I thnk this is due in part that I used to speak with her all the time.... and then poof. Now I can leave a message and might not here back... going on over two weeks this time.

I do find it "interesting", or maybe the word is "annoying" that she picks up the phone usually after many months have passed. It is those times when I decide to take my "ok, I am tired of being the one to call, and I am going to hold off", and then she calls. It is like she just got used to me doing the work and then realizes.... hmmm, its been awhile.



Greeksalad,

Having been on both side of the issue I really don't think 2 weeks to pass before returning a phone call is much at all. HOWEVER, if you are used to it being same day then I guess I can see how you now feel put out. Like I said in my original response, I have had that happen to me even with my own sister and I didn't really get it. Now I do understand why she was too busy to call me, but I try to remember how I felt when I was dropped and I really try hard to not do the same. Again, I don't think 2 weeks is too long, though. Also, maybe it is just the type of friendships I have made and how they have evolved over time, but not hearing from someone in a couple months doesn't bother me either. Maybe it doesn't bother your friend? I honestly read your thoughts about you testing her limits and then she eventually does pick up the phone? well, that to me means she does think of you and is honestly calling as soon as she gets a free moment.

You are truly a good friend to her and in the end you will reap benefits from this relationship, too. you are just going through a bumpy patch right now.

[MiMo]

I firmly believe if something is a priority for you, you MAKE time for it, and when I haven't heard from a friend in ages, that tells me our relationship isn't a priorty anymore....

Jennifer,

I really needed to hear this. So true. I've held on to two friendships for too long (me being the one who always has to write or call first), and I think I just need to get over them and let them both go. They can contact me from now on or I will just consider them "friends from the past" and move on.

Greek Salad,
I'm sorry about the changing relationship with your friend. I am single with no kids, too, and I have had the same thing happen numerous times. However, I'd like to say thanks for starting this thread. The responses have been just what I needed to read with great insight from everybody who has posted.

[greek salad]

Mgs.

I should have elaborated a bit more... I just called her two weeks ago... so that is why it has only been that long. Hey if I heard from her and its been 2 weeks, that would be absolutely fine.

There have been times that I have called (we might speak or I leave a message), and the next time I hear from her is 6 weeks, 3 months, even 4 months. I'll admit it those are the times I got fed up and decided not to keep on calling. Because normallly I would just make the call/calls to check in.

When she comes home from work, her evenings are so hectic -- making dinner, bathtime, bedtime so I know she has no time to kick back and call. Hey, she goes to bed at 10:00, and she used to go to bed at 1:00 am.

I know she is busy but even a quick email would be good too (she works in an officee 3 days/week, at home 2 days/week). And although I love getting the pics, I wouldn't mind getting a sentence or two as well.

I guess what bugs me most is that I don't say anything, I just let it bother me. Have to work on not taking it so personally.

[mgs]

so she sends emails w/pics attached and no message? whoa that is a doozy

[BarbaraL]

I agree with MGS and ChristineVA. With working full-time and taking care of DD when I got home, I literally didn't have a minute for myself. In my "free" time, I was cooking, doing laundry and other chores, paying bills, etc. DH was living out of state during the week and only home on weekends (we had planned to relocate), so I was essentially a working "single" mom. Also, back then in the dark ages, there was no Email or internet.

I feel bad that I neglected my friends, but there are only so many hours in a day. Plus, my life was so circumscribed, I really had very little to talk about except DD (boring to non-parents). I appreciated friends who understood my situation and continued to reach out to me during those years.

[Kay Henderson]

I guess what bugs me most is that I don't say anything, I just let it bother me.

I am wondering if talking to the friend and asking her what she would like in the friendship -- occasional touching base, something more, perhaps take a break during the time your priorities are so different -- might clear the air. (Don't know, I probably wouldn't do it, but????)

My DH and I did not raise children. I have to say that during the time our contemporaries' children were small, I did not have close women friends other than relatives. I had colleagues I liked and respected in the workplace, and my DH and I especially enjoyed other couples in our sailing fleet, but it was not the same thing as close women friends. Since I have gotten older, and especially since we retired, I have once again made (and kept) good friends, most from the organizations I have joined.

I've concluded that it wasn't me so much as the fact that the lives of women without children and those with move along very different trajectories during the period of intense child-raising. They converge again later in life.

The one piece of advice I would have would be to second the suggestion to seek friends among those who share your interests. I would also add, don't rule out people of a variety of ages -- similar age is certainly something in common, but not the only thing.

This obviously troubles you and I don't blame you. Good luck in sorting things out.

Kay

[SDMomChef]

I'm not sure if it is a children issue or a life issue - I have found that I have less in common with some of my friends from my 20's, even though we all have kids. My interests in life have changed...and the friends that I have now I talk to on a regular basis even though I am a working mom.

I still consider my earlier friends "friends" but my "person" (as Christina would say) are people that I've met while a thirtysomething.

[greek salad]

Thanks everyone for your input. Interesting to see different perspectives.

I am trying to not let it bother me that the relationship feels so one sided. Perhaps it has run its course but since I have known her for such a long time, I am not ready to let the friendship go.. not yet at least. But then again, I am not running to the phone to call her right now -- ok a bit childish. Knowing me, I will cave and call her in a few weeks if I don't hear from her.

But I do think I might say something. And, holy cow.... if she is going to send me an email with pictures of her child (don't get me wrong, enjoy seeing them), at least write a hello. Oy.

I know people change, responsibilities change... interesting how people might move in and out as your situations change. Move away from singles, migrate to marrieds, those that have kids congregate with other like minded, if you are married and don't have kids, you might tend to migrate to others like you.

Thanks again.

[greek salad]

Oh, and makes me feel better that I am not alone, and others have experienced it (regardless of what side) especially if the amount of lurkers on this rather short thread is any indication.

Thanks again.

[buffygirl]

I've concluded that it wasn't me so much as the fact that the lives of women without children and those with move along very different trajectories during the period of intense child-raising. They converge again later in life.


Kay

This is such an insightful comment. I had my son much later in life than most of my friends. They all had kids when we were all in our early 30's, I had DS when I was 38. I remember feeling very left out and wondering if several of my friendships would make it. Then when I had DS, it simply became an issue of not enough hours in the day to have the "luxury" of a telephone call to a friend. I realized that probably most moms with kids under 4 or 5 just don't have a minute to themselves. I know that I will eventually, but right now everything but work and DS get done very minimally. I don't chat with my childless friends alot, but I don't chat with my mom friends much either.

Granted, I know some moms who manage it "all". I just haven't mastered that yet.

[Rae]

I am single and don't have children while most of my friends are married and have children. I've found it really varies, among my friends, about how much the friendship drops off after children. Some I see and talk to as much as ever and maybe more, and some not so much. Everyone has to decide what they want to do with their time and prioritize. I'm not making any judgements, but it seems that some friends have decided that maintaining friendships is important to them and they make an effort, and others have not. I can't make judgements because I don't have children and don't know how I would manage my time if I did, but I can say from my experience, it has varied greatly among my friends.

[Applepie1101]

Interesting. I have experienced very similar things with some of my friends as they have kids. Although I try to be understanding that I things are likely to change since their life is now so different since having kids, I do think a great deal does depend on how important maintaining and keep their friendships is to them. And I guess the importance you play. I certainly don't expect tons of calls, visits etc when their child is an infant since that time is huge adjustment, and all your time is spent feeding, changing, caring for a little one. But as their child gets a bit older..

A few of my friends that keep good contact (basically its reciprocal) seem to really want to carve out time for themselves although incredibly tough (hats off to them). My friend B, will meet up with friends for lunch on the weekend and her kids will spend one on one time with their dad. My friend S gets together with her friends (they might have kids, might not). She just got back from a girls weekend in San Fran. She has a 2 and 5 year old.

My friend D who I hardly ever hear from, I don't think makes any time for just her self and practically never leaves her child with her husband, if she could avoid it. I wish I lived closer and perhaps she would take me up on my offer to babysit so she can get out more.

Interestingly enough, my neighbor was just telling me about one of her friends that basically never called/emailed when her kids were little, and now 4 years later she is back and expects things to pick up where they were.

[HRJ]

Little late to the conversation, but, a few thoughts: I didn't become a mom until I was 42, so I've been on both sides of this issue -- since almost all my friends had kids long before I did, I think I spent most of my time as the "non-parent" friend.

Yes, it is frustrating when a friendship drops off because kids have come along--when I was on the non-child end, I chalked it up to the fact that my friends' lives had changed so much and that we just had less in common, and that they had a lot less time, especially if they continued to work outside the home. It's sort of like when you have a friend at work, and then one of you gets another job -- the "glue" that held you together tends to dissolve as your circumstances change. (Or, at least that seems to be what has happened to me).

In most cases, though, these were not super-tight, bosom-buddy type friends, anyway. I have a very, very dear, long-time friend who had a child before I did, and our friendship remained just as close as it always had -- I think because our relationship has transcended our particular life circumstances at any given time.

Now that I'm on the mom end, I understand even better what women mean when they say they literally don't have a minute some days to send an e-mail or make a quick phone call. Used to be, I could use some spare minutes at work to send an e-mail, for instance -- it didn't matter as much how busy I was at work, because I knew I could relax and unwind when I got home. Now, I feel like I have to "prepare" myself as I get ready to leave work, because the exhausting part of the day is just beginning -- the after-school commotion, dinner, baths, etc. So I'm more likely to use downtown at work to catch my breath.

One other thing -- I've always heard a lot of complaints about people -- women in particular -- who become parents, and then bore their friends by talking non-stop about their kids. Yes, no one wants to hear about potty training 24/7. But, if you're on the non-child end, take a moment to think about your topics of conversation -- maybe they've become irrelevant to your now-parenting friends? Just as a non-parent might not want to hear all about the Teletubbies, a parent of a young child might not want to hear all about whatever's happening on "24" or some other show they used to watch but have no time for now. Your "usual" topics of conversation might not work anymore.

Helene

[lbd]

All the different perspectives on this have been really interesting to read. I think marriage and children are a stark example of the life changes that can affect friendships but certainly not the only ones. One PP used the example of work friends who change jobs; I've also had friendships change (ie, dissolve) after graduation from school that I had thought were strong and important. I still wonder why one friend just dropped off the face of the earth -- didn't return calls or emails for a long time then this year's holiday card was returned as undeliverable -- it hurts like crazy when I think about it and wish I knew what the problem was. :( :confused:

One twist I don't remember reading about happened when I would get together with 2 married but childless friends after my 9 month old DS was born. In the early months, they always wanted to talk about the baby and baby-related stuff but I wanted to talk about what they were up to. It seemed like my only opportunity to get outside my little baby-sphere and as smitten as I am I need outside stimulation! Conversation topics would bounce back and forth like crazy but we've gotten a bit more balanced since then.

[applecrisp]

I've never thought that maybe my friends that have kids might not really want to hear about my things since I don't have kids, so what we have in common day to day is so different. But, I will say some of them do enjoy hearing the trials and tribulations of the dating world. :rolleyes:

Maybe those that I dont' speak to often think that I don't want to hear about kid stuff all the time. I'm not sure of the later since I love hearing about their kids, ask for pictures etc.

I've never thought of the analogy that things might change .... just like if one person no longer works at the same company so that connection is no longer there.

It is tough for me to deal with how one sided the relationship can feel... interestingly enough, the one friend that I thought this would never happen with, is the one that it happened to.