San Francisco - critique trip plans

[jrichards]

Please critique and add any feedback to my planned San Francisco trip. I also have questions in there (in red).

I’ve tried to read all the threads about San Francisco, but still need some help. I was there once (for 2 days) over 15 years ago, and am traveling with someone who has never been there. THANKS!

Fri, Jun 1st
• Berkeley for wandering/shopping/eating, walk down Telegraph is a must
• Music place or local pub that night
• Any specific suggestions for eating, going out that night?

Sat, Jun 2nd
• Golden Gate Park in day
o Take N-Judah street car, and get off at 9th & Irving stop
o Have Sushi lunch at Ebisu
o Visit the shops on Irving street along the way to park
o At park = Visit Japanese Tea Garden, maybe DeYoung museum, definitely out to Ocean Beach for sea lion watching/dipping toes in ocean. Would you recommend Tea Garden over DeYoung, or is the botanical garden a must see? What’s your favorite in that area of the park?
 Read there’s a free shuttle within the park on weekends. Can I take free shuttle from Tea Garden area to Ocean Beach?
• 3 Babes and a Bus Nightclub Tour (www.threebabes.com)
o Includes cover to 3-4 different clubs (itinerary changes weekly), immediate VIP entrance (no waiting in lines), and be driven around the city with a group of other people and a host.
• Taxi back to Berkeley

Sun, Jun 3rd
• Walk around San Francisco (suggestion for area to explore?)
• Alcatraz night tour
• Dinner at Fog City Diner (http://www.fogcitydiner.com/)

Mon, Jun 4th
• Napa winery tours (renting car for the day)
o St. Supery = Wine tasting
o V. Sattui = Free tasting, but plan on buying food from their great deli. Then sit outside to eat and watch the wine train go by.
o Beringer = 30 minute winery and aging cellars tour, with 3 wine tasting
o Sterling = aerial tram ride up Napa hillside, self guided tour, 5 wine tasting at your own table
o Coppola = Skipping the tasting and buying a glass from the bar. Then sit outside to watch the world go by and take in the spectacular views
o Is St. Supery wroth it, or should I cross them off the list?
• Would it be good idea to stop at Muir Woods National Monument Park to see redwoods on the way home?
o If we went back to Berkeley first, how long would it take to return to Muir Woods? Are they OK to go to in the evening?

Tues, Jun 4th
• Wok Wiz Chinatown tour includes hosted 7-course dim sum lunch (http://www.wokwiz.com/)
o Fluent Cantonense tour guide takes us to visit a local herbalist, an art gallery, tea purveyor, Chinese temple, and our own "farmers market" — produce markets. Learn about the beautiful and ornate architecture in this area, and the best places to shop for souvenirs, jewelry, and linens.
• More walking around San Francisco (thinking Ferry Plaza and up The Embarcadero up to Fishermans Wharf/Pier 39)
o Is this walkable? Any other ideas?
• Dinner at Café Macaroni (very edge of North Beach – 59 Columbus Ave at Jackson.)
o Or should we eat at their new annex Café Macaroni Sciue Sciue across the street? o After walk up Columbus into North Beach; there are lots of great cafes, some decent bars (O'Reilly's pub, or you can sit outside at the Savoy-Tivoli -- yes, they have heat lamps!) AND you'll have to pass the famed and fabulous City Lights bookstore to get to any of it!

Wed, Jun 6th - MY BIRTHDAY :D :D
• Visit Sausalito (arrive by Ferry)
• Can I visit the redwoods from here?
• Do you know of any places for lunch that you’d suggest and that give a special birthday deal?
• Anything we can’t miss here?

Thanks again!

Jennifer

[magdon]

I would stop at muir woods on your way back if you want to see them. Its a bit of a trek and involves a bridge. you want to avoid bridges as much as possible.

walking along embarcadero is doable but pretty long. there is a streetcar that runs along it that you could take instead.

botanical gardens= free! if the shuttle is running it certainly goes to the beach.

i don't think you can get to the redwoods from sausalito w/o a car but i'm not totally sure. Have fun!

[tbb113]

Muir Woods is a national park...so it is closed at dark. Here is their website (http://www.nps.gov/muwo/) including transportation options.

Tea Gardens vs DeYoung... you are comparing apples and oranges. I haven't been to the Tea Gardens in decades :o but I did enjoy it. The De Young is a nice museum (and the cafe is good as well). I would do the Tea Gardens over the botantical gardens though.


If you like shopping...you can hit Union Square area and Market St where the new Westfield Shopping Center (http://westfield.com/sanfrancisco/) just opened.

[magdon]

Also, I haven't been to the DeYoung so I can't comment but if it is a very SF day (ie foggy & cold) you might want to do that instead of outdoor things. If it is nice, I also like Stowe Lake which is in the same area. It has pedal boats, a waterfall, pagoda & a hill to climb with nice views. From the lake, you can rent double side by side bikes to cruise around with. Looks pretty fun.

Muir Woods is out in the woods so there wouldn't be much to see at night and I would guess it would be closed.

Please bring a jacket! It can be nice in Berkeley and freezing in GGP.

And you didn't ask, but I just did a wok wiz tour and it was great.

If you are wandering around Westfield Mall area, be sure to check out Beard Papa-- yummy yummy cream puffs. So good.

[Meganator]

We were in SF for a long weekend at the end of February. If you can, I would recommend going to the Ferry Building on Saturday morning instead of Tuesday. The farmer's market is on Saturday, and all of the shops inside are open. We went back a different day to buy a loaf of bread (for walking-around snacking), and a lot of the shops were closed (although the bakery that we were looking for was open).

We went on three of the City Guides tours - which I learned about from reading some of the previous threads here, and really enjoyed them (Nob Hill, Pacific Heights, and Cityscapes/Public Places).

The Japanese Tea Garden doesn't take that long, so you could see both that and the DeYoung if you wanted. We didn't go into the DeYoung, but we did go up into the tower (free admission), from which there is a great view. I think we did the botanical garden on a previous trip, but I'd recommend the Tea Garden over the botanical garden.

I wanted to go to Scharffenberger Chocolate in Berkeley, but we didn't really have time - I understand that you should make a reservation if you want to go on the tour.

Cable car fare is $5.00, so take that into consideration on one of the days when you are going to be doing several things in SF. Two cable car rides or one cable car + 4 bus trips makes the day pass worth it.

HTH. Have a great time!
Megan

[aggie94]

The Embarcadero is very walkable. When DH & I were there in February, we walked from our hotel (the Marriott near the Moscone Convention Center) to Ferry Building, then up the Embarcadero to Pier 39. I agree that the Ferry Building is great on a Saturday with the Farmer's Market, but it can be VERY crowded. Tuesday is not a bad day -- I think it's Monday that you want to avoid, since many of the stores are not open on Monday. We went on a Friday and the lunch places were all packed.

Also, do you have your heart set on those particular wineries in Napa, and is there a particular reason? You might check out my Napa thread from last November. We did all private, appointment-only tours/tasting at smaller wineries, and I would never do it any other way again. It was so much more enjoyable to be THE ONLY ONES there at a given time (depending on how many people you have in your group), and have the personal attention. Hands down the best tour/tasting we had was at Flora Springs, with Angus. I cannot recommend it enough. Also, if you have time, stop by St. Helena Olive Oil Co. for olive oil tasting -- well worth the stop.

[Meganator]

...I agree that the Ferry Building is great on a Saturday with the Farmer's Market, but it can be VERY crowded. Tuesday is not a bad day -- I think it's Monday that you want to avoid, since many of the stores are not open on Monday.


Yeah, it was a Monday when we were there.

[Canice]

Sounds like a great trip!
If you're looking for lunch when you're out farther in GG Park, Irving between 19th and 25th is pretty much all Chinese groceries and restaurants but also pho houses. Sunset Supermarket near 25th is a large Asian grocery if you happen to have any hard-to-find items on your pantry list.

Personally, I find Telegraph Avenue profoundly depressing, especially since Cody's Books is gone. Since the University is right there you'll have no problem finding cheap eats, but I'd go to Shattuck Avenue, the "Gourmet Ghetto" where Chez Panisse is located when it comes to dinner. Maybe you could eat upstairs at the café? I would research Shattuck Avenue for options. My best friend still spends a good bit of time there, so when he's back in town I'll ask him.

I agree that you can't really compare the DeYoung to the Japanese Tea Garden, but they're right next to each other (and across from the Botanical Gardens) so you can do a lot. The Tea Garden is free after 4PM so you could do that after the museum. I'm also a fan of Stow Lake - it's just above the Tea Garden so again, you can just walk down 9th Avenue into the park and see what's what. You might stick your head in the Shakespeare Garden along the way: on a Saturday in June there's sure to be a wedding there, which is always sweet. Shouldn't be a problem taking the shuttle out to Ocean Beach. Or you can rent bikes at Stow Lake and ride there. Here's a nice overview of the park (http://www.sfgate.com/traveler/guide/sf/neighborhoods/ggpark.shtml), if it will help.

For walking around on Sunday, I would definitely consider taking a City Guides walk as mentioned by Meganator. Or you could walk through Chinatown to North Beach (be sure to walk down the alleys of Chinatown if you do that, they can be interesting) get a sandwich at Molinari's and go up Telegraph Hill for lunch. (There's a bus or you can walk if you're not afraid of hills). My dad and I used to do that when I was a kid and I always feel compelled to recommend it.
Or you can take a bus from BART, say the 38-Geary, out to Fillmore Street. Head north on Fillmore where there are loads of shops and cafés and such, and all the way up to Broadway where there are sweeping views of the Golden Gate, Marin Headlands, Alcatraz, etc. Keep going down Fillmore to Union Street (or just wend your way around - it's a beautiful neighborhood of older mansions). Union Street is kind of posh shops and such, but still a pleasant stroll. From there you can cross Lombard Street to Chestnut and to the Palace of Fine Arts and across to Crissy Field or Fort Mason. Crissy Field was part of the Presidio and was a dreadful toxic airstrip until it was fully restored to beautiful wetlands along the bay to the Golden Gate. Fort Point is a Civil War era battery at the very end, under the Golden Gate bridge, so you can stroll down there, stop at The Warming Hut (http://sf.ruggedelegance.com/places/827.html) along the way for coffee or a sandwich. Conversley, you could start your walk at Fort Mason and get lunch to go from the take-out counter at Greens Restaurant and walk from there.

I like Sciue Sciue, but you'll be happy with either that or Cafe Macaroni (caveat: I haven't been in ages but presume they're still good choices).

I don't know of any public transit from Sausalito to Muir Woods, but if you go you might continue on to Muir Beach and have a beer at The Pelican Inn (http://www.pelicaninn.com/). I don't see any practical way to include it in a trip from Berkeley to the wine country, so maybe hold off for another trip?

I'm not aware of any birthday deals, but keep in mind that Sausalito restaurants depend on the tourist trade, meaning not much committment to excelence, in general. Poggio (http://www.poggiotrattoria.com/) gets outstanding reviews but I haven't been yet. For decent basic fare and views, you might go to Horizons (also a throwback to the '70s!). If you want to get off the beaten track, go down Calendonia Street (walk all the way down Bridgeway to Caffè Trieste and cross the street - Caledonia begins there). Sushi Ran is there, and was recently awarded a Michelin star. Sausalito's pretty enough, but it's small and once you've walked around there's not much left to do, so maybe a leisurely meal is the way to go.

Hope that helps!

[Julia1Pin]

[QUOTE=jrichards;1199165]Please critique and add any feedback to my planned San Francisco trip. I also have questions in there (in red).



Sat, Jun 2nd
• Golden Gate Park in day
o Take N-Judah street car, and get off at 9th & Irving stop
o Have Sushi lunch at EbisuVery good - very expensive


Mon, Jun 4th
• Napa winery tours (renting car for the day)
o St. Supery = Wine tasting One of my favorite wineries - beautiful grounds and the Muscat is phenomenal
o V. Sattui = Free tasting, but plan on buying food from their great deli. Then sit outside to eat and watch the wine train go by.
o Beringer = 30 minute winery and aging cellars tour, with 3 wine tasting I would skip this one. Silverado has a BEAUTIFUL winery with great wines that might be a good substitute. Or Cakebread has great wines and great tours
o Sterling = aerial tram ride up Napa hillside, self guided tour, 5 wine tasting at your own table
o Coppola = Skipping the tasting and buying a glass from the bar. Then sit outside to watch the world go by and take in the spectacular views Can't really watch the workd go by - very much in-set. I'd pass.

[Canice]

I know what I was trying to think of in Berkeley: Spats (http://www.themenupage.com/spats.html). I never ate there, but boy did we DRINK a lot there! :o

Another option for walking and still getting along the Marina Green, Crissy Field, etc. would be to hop a bus, say the 1-California out to Polk Street. Head north on Polk and there are LOADS of shops, cafés, restaurants, etc. It's a nice walk and you can go all the way to the end, then head west a couple of blocks and you're in Fort Mason. You could start at Greens and then walk along the Bay from there - go as far as you want, perhaps cross over (south) a couple of blocks and wander around Chestnut Street. If City Guides is doing their Art Deco Marina tour that day, it would be fun -- the neighborhood is called The Marina.

Obviously everyone has a different threshold for pricing, but I wouldn't called Ebisu "very expensive".

[sigmaration]

You have a lot of great advice here!

If you find yourself in North Beach (by Telegraph Hill) with some time to kill, I would recommend the following:

1) City Lights Bookstore (http://www.citylights.com) (on Columbus) -- it is an amazing independent bookstore that was at the heart of the beat poety movement. They have a wonderful section of poetry upstairs, including an original version of Allen Ginsberg's "Howl".

2) Tosca Cafe (http://www.yelp.com/biz/bcXY_zGB4zWQuNnxfR7Z3w) -- It's very San Francisco, and some celebs have been known to hang out here. They specialize in liquor + coffee drinks, and the irish coffee is the best I've ever had.

If you find yourself in the Ferry Building at lunch or dinner, I would recommend Slanted Door (http://www.slanteddoor.com/) which is a modern vietnamese restaurant and utterly fantastic.

Also, you mentioned seeing the sea lions at the beach -- you should know that the sea lions gather at Fisherman's Wharf/Pier 39, not out at the beach on the west end of town. If you have to go to Fisherman's Wharf/Pier 39, I guess it's good... but really that part of town is just a tourist trap and nowhere that any real SFer goes on a regular basis unless they work there or are dragged by tourists.

You should also stop by Alamo Square Park to see the Painted Ladies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painted_Ladies) The best place to get a good view is facing east on Hayes Street around Pierce. Look for the crowd -- there are almost always people taking photos or having a picnic in that corner of the park. (That park is small, by the way -- 2 blocks x 2 blocks. And I used to live a block away from there.)

As for Napa, I highly suggest you add Prager Winery & Port Works (http://www.pragerport.com/) to your list. It is a small, run-down shack with dollar bills signed and stapled to nearly every surface. But it's also the best port wine you will ever have.

I like the Coppola winery because I like their wines, but it is very commercial. If you are looking for a mainstream experience, its good. If you're looking for a small local winery feel, you will be disappointed.

There is a Dean & DeLuca in the area too, if you are looking to stock up on yummy gourmet stuff.

I agree with the recommendation for Beard Papa cream puffs, and there are two locations. One is in the San Francisco Centre (The new Westfield Mall on Market St around Powell) in the basement where the food court is. The other is not far from there, in the alley just past the Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf. You have to keep the puffs refrigerated and eat them within 24 hours (at least -- I think they get soggy in as little as 12).

In terms of other areas to explore, it really depends on what you are into. I like the Haight-Ashbury area, but you have to have a fairly high tolerance for other tourists and for street kids asking for money. (I've never found them to be rude or pushy, they are just there and there are a good amount of them.) If you listen closely, you may find that someone is quietly offering to sell you pot. Again, they aren't pushy or bothersome at all... but its there. The corner of Haight and Ashbury is well marked, although depressingly commercialized, IMO. There is a Ben & Jerry's and a Gap on this corner. But there are also some GREAT vintage stores here (Held Over, Wasteland, etc) and a fantastic shop called Piedmont (you'll know it because there are giant inflatable legs hanging out the window above the store) that sells anything spandex, glittery, feathered, or fabulous. It's like a drag queen's paradise. Not practical but certainly fun. I would also recommend you go all the way to the end of Haight St (it dead ends into Golden Gate Park) to Amoeba Records. The building used to be a bowling alley, and it shows. But they have like, everything ever made.

OK I guess that's it, but do ask if you need more directions or suggestions!

[magdon]

There is also a smaller farmers market at the Ferry Building on Tuesdays from 10-2, I think. The Beach/Park Chalet across from ocean beach are good but can be crowded on the weekends. Although maybe not so much if you were looking for a late afternoon snack.

[sigmaration]

Oh, and bring a jacket with you. We're not Los Angeles -- it rarely gets above 75 or so. It will be warmer in Berkeley and in the north bay, but San Francisco is usually 10 degrees cooler. Make sure you take your jacket to the beach, too -- it's usually windy and 10 degrees cooler there than anywhere else in the city.

[chazkp]

I second St. Supery. The winery is very educational. I learned a lot about the process of making wines from St. Supery, and it is done in a fun, hands on way. I also really like the Muscat.

I also enjoyed Cakebread. I thought the grounds were quite pretty.

If you like sparkling wine, you might want to consider Mumms.

[Canice]

Say, I was thinking about City Guides and popped over to check out their summer schedule (http://www.sfcityguides.org/schedules_jun-sept.html) and found a walk I hadn't heard of: "North Beach by Night" well, it's really evening, but still: Sundays at 7:00. I know that sometimes when you're travelling evenings can be hard to fill beyond dinner, so just thought I'd toss that out there.
And I see that the Ferry Building, Palace Hotel, and Market Street tours are all held the day you plan to be at the ferry building, and all three are right nearby. While the Embarcadero is totally walkable, I can't really see walking up to Pier 39 or Fisherman's Wharf. I don't like stuff like that myself, but if it grabs you, it's a fine walk - and all flat. ;) BTW, until very recently, the seals were out at Ocean Beach (hence, "Seal Rocks") but even *they* chased the tourist trade down to Pier 39!

[jrichards]

Thanks so much for all of the info! I do have some follow up questions/comments below.

MUIR WOODS
FYI – website says there will be a shuttle on weekends and holidays from May 5 - end of September 2007. A bus will stop at the Sausalito Ferry, Marin City, and Manzanita Park and Ride Lot. Don't know if I'll use it (depends on final structure of plans), but nice to know about it.

I know Canice thought it would be impractical to include Muir Woods in a trip from Berkeley to the wine country. Would this make any sense though if we want to go over both bridges - - from Berkeley go over Bay Bride, then cross over Golden Gate Bridge and stop at Muir Woods (and do ½ hour walk or so) before continuing on to the Napa wine country? Or would it take way too long to travel that way due to traffic? Or bad idea for another reason?

GOLDEN GATE PARK
For the activities in GGP, I wasn't trying to compare apples to oranges. Rather, I want to know what YOU would recommend as best thing to do there, as well as rating Tea Gardens vs. DeYoung (or the other items right in that same general area). For second part, it sounds like Tea Gardens & Stowe lake (sticking head into Shakespeare Garden along the way) if weather good, and DeYoung if not?

BERKELEY
We’ll be staying on Prince Street, right near Shattuck Avenue. If Chez Panisse is on Shattuck, are we very near to it? Do they require reservations for the upstairs café?

NAPA WINERIES
For the napa wineries, that tour was recommended by a friend of a friend (never met them) who is a frequent wine country visitor. Since there are an overwhelming number of options, I was just going with their rec.

Eva - for the private, appointment-only tours/tasting at smaller wineries, what type of price of you talking about for doing it that way?

NORTH BEACH
If we’re in the area after dinner, would the City Lights bookstore and Tosca café still be open?

FERRY BUILDING FARMERS MARKET
Is there a Farmer’s Market at Ferry Building on Sun & Tues (in addition to Sat)? Reason I’m asking is that the S.F. City Guide tours offer free ones at noon on Sat, Sun, & Tues. Says you sample fresh foods, produce, and plants from local farms and nurseries. And the tours coincide with the Farmers Market.

SEAFOOD QUESTION
I forgot to ask earlier, but are there any seafood items that are seasonal and can’t miss at that time? For example, I have no memory of when the softshell crab season is, but I was lucky enough to be in New Orleans, LA at a time when they were. Want to see iwhat’s good or special (if anything) in Jun.

Thank you again everyone. Lots of very helpful information, feedback, and links.

Jennifer

[Canice]

Hi Jennerifer, I'll take a stab at a few of your questions:

Muir Woods
Yes, you could definitely go Berkeley-SF-Mill Valley-Napa. But leave early, or the traffic on the Bay Bridge will be a nightmare. I was thinking you were going to do it on your way *back* from Napa, and that would be exhausting and cumbersome.

Golden Gate Park
All things being equal, I would probably go to the DeYoung, but that would depend also on the crowds and the current exhibits. You can always have a quick walk around Stow Lake or the Botanical Gardens if you don't want to pay for the Tea Garden AND the De Young. Or, as I said, the Tea Garden is free after 4:00. I love public gardens but they're in every city while museums have more one-of-a-kind experiences.

Berkeley
Prince Street didn't ring a bell, so I checked MapQuest and it's almost two miles. So probably walkable but a good walk. Maybe take a bus?
I would make a reservation for the café.

North Beach
Tosca is actually a bar and not a café (despite its name) and doesn't open until 6:00 PM, so you're good til 2:00AM.
City Lights is open late (at least 11:00PM) so you can stroll through there as well. They're across the street from each other.

Ferry Building
There used to be a very scaled down market on Sundays but I'm fairly sure it was discontinued a couple of years ago, though there is one on Tuesdays, but it's quite small compared to the Saturday event.
As you probably know, the market is outside but the inside of the Ferry Building is all food shops and all are local except for Sur la Table (since Williams-Sonoma didn't want the space). So technically you can sample fresh local produce and other food products anytime you're inside the building, even if the farmers' market isn't operating.

Seafood
No soft-shell crab here. Dungeness crab season is about at a close now (runs approx Dec-April in SF though longer up the coast, so it's available for quite a while). Wild Pacific salmon comes into season just as crab is going out. A lot of restaurants focus on the local/seasonal angle, so be sure to ask what's freshest or local.

Shout if you have any more questions!

[jrichards]

Thanks Canice.

For MUIR WOODS I was originally talking about doing it on the way back from Napa, but thought it might possibly work better on the way out. What do you mean by leave early? And, if leaving early isn't an option, would 9am be late enough to avoid the crowds? Rough idea how long it would take to get to Muir Woods from where I'm starting in Berkeley?

As far as seeing Tea Garden in GGP for free after 4pm, I think that might be too late for us. If we're going to go back to Berkeley (to rest, get ready for night out) before 3 Babes & Bus nightclub tour, I don't know if that would allow us enough time. What do you think?

The Ferry Building website listed the Farmer's market on Sat, Sun & Tues. I wonder if that's correct or outdated?

Jennifer

[Canice]

Ack! I was thinking weekends, not a Monday. It would be a complete nightmare to try to get into the city in a car on a Monday morning, IMO - maybe Tyra will weigh in, but traffic's really, really bad. I suppose it would be better if you left around 9:00 but even then I'm sure it would take over an hour to get to Muir Woods. Then the hike, then onto 101 and up north to Napa -- that's a lot in one day and wouldn't leave much time in the wine country. I wouldn't do it.

I would just skip the Tea Garden if time's an issue. It's not that big a deal.

I'm sure the Web site is correct if it's listing a Sunday market. Honestly, I don't have any reason to be down there on a Sunday so I wouldn't know from experience. For some reason I thought it was off, but maybe I was thinking of the Thursday evening market, which is probably seasonal.

[sigmaration]

Driving into San Francisco, especially at Rush Hour, can be crazy because there are only 4 ways into the city. (The 101, the 280, the Bay Bridge and the Golden Gate Bridge). Besides the traffic, another reason to avoid taking both bridges would be the fare -- it costs $4 to get into San Francisco on the Bay (although it is free to leave the city on the Bay) and I believe that the Golden Gate is $5 each way. If you are just looking for nice photos of the GG Bridge, there is a nice turn off in San Francisco just before you get on the bridge where you can take photos and buy souveniers and stuff.

I agree about Tosca -- after dinner is perfect. I have never been there late at night, so it's always mellow when I'm there. I imagine it could get crowded later, though. There are a lot of good restaurants in North Beach... I would try to stick to local ones and stay away from chains like The Stinking Rose (which I don't feel is heavy on the garlic anyway).

I haven't been to the farmer's market in a long time, but last I was there I believe there was a small Sunday market, but it's maybe 1/3 the size of the Saturday market. There is also a market in the UN Plaza on Sunday -- the UN plaza is down market around 8th St, near the main branch of the library. It's not nearly as glamorous but they generally have better prices and the best kettle corn you'll ever have.

[tbb113]

You City People are wimps when it comes to traffic :p Berkeley to SF shouldn't be that bad at 9am (but I've been wrong before). Actually a bigger issue would be getting through SF. If you are heading for Muir Woods and aren't trying to do the city on the same day, I personally would take the San Rafael Bridge and then go south on 101 to Muir Woods.

Muir Woods is off Hwy 1 though and if I remember correctly its about a 30 minute drive (but it has been a long time so my timing could be way off).

I just checked mapquest...they agree with me to go the San Rafael bridge from Berkeley and they are estimating 40 minutes total drive time. So...you should be there within an hour max (even with traffic).

Muir Woods to Napa (city proper) is another hours drive.

[KristaMB]

I'm not super familiar with The City, but I was going to suggest the same thing as Tyra. Take the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge to Muir Woods. From Berkeley you would be going against traffic to get to the bridge, away from SF. I've taken that bridge several times in the past year, (although never on a weekday) and it's always been a breeze.

And FWIW, there are signs all over Muir Woods that you can't bring food and drink past a certain point. I'm sure part of it is to eliminate litter, but undoubtedly the crappy, over-priced snack shop has a hand in it, too. :rolleyes: If you think you will need a snack while you're there, I'd pack your own and eat it in the parking area. There are a few picnic benches around from what I can remember. The shuttle buses run on weekends and holidays because the parking is very limited. However if you get there fairly early on a weekday, I'm sure you'll have no problem finding a spot. If the lots are full, keep driving down the road a bit and park on the shoulder.

Also, if you have time, I would highly recommend a City Guides tour. I've done the Knob Hill and Golden Gate tours and enjoyed them both.

Have fun on your trip!

[Canice]

I've never tried to cross the Bay Bridge into the city during rush hour and, wimp or not, don't intend to; after 40 years of listening to traffic reports, I've heard enough! Leaving at 9:00 would make for a late start on the day, and even using the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge, it's not going to be fun to try to get from Berkeley to Muir Woods to Napa and back in a day. (Just to clarify, though, toll is collected on the GG Bridge southbound only - you can leave the city for free but must pay to enter ;) ). That's still a chunk of backtracking from the Richmond Bridge to Mill Valley, up Highway 1 to Muir Woods, and then turn around back again to pick up 101 (and I'm quite skeptical that you can actually get from Berkeley to Muir Woods in 40 minutes, even in optimal traffic conditions). It's a LOT of driving, and unless you just wanted to have lunch in one of the wine country towns, you wouldn't be able to see much. If you do choose to do that, you might want to consider Sonoma rather than Napa. I'm not trying entirely to dissuade you, just want to be sure you know that it's an awful lot of driving, will cut into your day in the wine country, and will entail either backtracking on 101 or dealing with commute traffic on the Bay Bridge and/or on city streets in San Francisco. I think you'd end up not being able to enjoy Muir Woods/Muir Beach and the loveliness of West Marin (a day trip in itself) OR Napa.

[jrichards]

I'll check to see how much my friend wants to see the redwoods. Sounds like it *may* be too much to drive there (over San Rafeal bridge) and then on to Napa.

However, if we went to Muir W0ods a different day, besides the shuttle that runs over the weekend, is there any other public transport there?

I'm also taking another look at the San Francisco City Walk links. There are just too many interesting & exciting things to do. Just can't fit them all in, even though I feel like we're acting like the tourists who try to see all of Europe in a week. :p

Does anyone have ballpark as to what the private, appointment-only tours/tasting at smaller wineries would be?

Glad to know about the market in the UN Plaza on Sunday.

Jennifer

[Canice]

Sorry, can't help with the private wine tastings, but another thought on Muir Woods (I checked the Golden Gate Transit website, and the route is offered weekends and holidays only, seasonally) and that would be to take a scheduled bus tour out of San Francisco - I think that's going to be your best hope. I've never been on one and don't know anyone who has, so it's just something to consider if you want to research it further yourself, but no recommendations for you. Just search "Muir Woods Tours" and you'll get lots of options. Or you could just walk down to the Berkeley campus and take a gander at theirs instead ;) .

The farmers' market at United Nations Plaza is held on Wednesdays as well as Sundays, and as Kellie said, is significantly cheaper than the Ferry Building, but not the variety or size and less organic. And really not so "glam" or whatever. It caters greatly to Asian shoppers, particularly the Vietnamese community that it abuts - so lots of interesting and unusual Asian herbs and produce. If you do go, have lunch afterward at Bodega Bistro (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/08/25/FDGF28CLUU1.DTL). Despite its name, it's neither Spanish nor French (though it has some French-influenced dishes), but a wonderful family-run Vietnamese restaurant that won't disappoint.

[aggie94]

Sorry, Jennifer - I had a crazy day and did not get a chance to respond.

We joined one of the wine clubs at Flora Springs so did not get charged for our private tour/tasting, but I think the couple that did paid about $20-25 each for theirs, which was well worth the cost, IMO. Angus spent about 3 hours with us, showed us the grounds, wine caves, etc., and did a tasting of about 6-8 wines including several barrel wines. He also gave us bottled water, nuts, and dried fruits to cleanse our palates in between tastings.

We also did a private tour/tasting at Signorello, which was a several hour tour that included cheese and chocolate pairings. The regular cost on that is $75 but they did not charge any of us because two of the three couples either joined wine clubs or purchased wine to carry out.

We actually did not pay for any of the three private tastings/tours we did on our last trip to Napa because we purchased wines at each.

[Canice]

Hey Jennifer, I'm just back from a fabulous visit to the Ferry Building/Tuesday market. I checked in with the info desk there, and they said that in fact there is no longer a Sunday market, so I was right the first time. He said they may be bringing it back, and I suggested they update their Web site while they debate it. :rolleyes:
The Tuesday market really is a small fraction the size of Saturday's, but if it's a gorgeous day like today, it's still nice to visit - and the shops inside (they aren't associated with the farmers' market) are actually navigable.
BTW, if this hasn't been mentioned on any of the other threads, do not leave the building without having had a steamed chicken bun from "Out the Door", the take-away counter for The Slanted Door. It is the tastiest two dollars you will have ever spent. I managed to nosh my way through the market today, with a couple of goodies from Out the Door and a couple from Delica (http://www.delicarf1.com/), a sort of wonderful Japanese deli, and followed up with a tiny sweet bite from Miette (http://www.miettecakes.com/). It was a perfect spring day, so I sat out back and enjoyed the view.


http://www.slashfood.com/media/2006/05/ferry_bridgeview.jpg

[aggie94]

Since two people have already mentioned it on this thread, I'll throw in a third recommendation for Slanted Door/Out the Door at Ferry Building. We ate there when we visited in February and it was OUTSTANDING. There was no way we were getting a table without a reservation during lunch hour on a Friday, so we waited for seating at the bar and it was well worth the wait. I would definitely grab lunch there when you are at the Ferry Building.

[Canice]

So Jennifer. Now that your questions are pretty much answered, I'll ask: How committed are you to Café Macaroni and Fog City?

[aggie94]

Awww, are you going to try to talk her out of Fog City Diner? :( We had a GREAT meal there with Emily! And the BEST amaretto sour I've ever had -- our bartender rocked.

[Canice]

I had a feeling I was stirring the pot! :p
Wasn't going to try to talk her out of it, but just thinking about options. I see now that the Alcatraz tour is that night, though, so it's totally the right choice.

OT, but Eva, have you ever been to Cindy's Backstreet Kitchen (http://www.cindysbackstreetkitchen.com/) in St. Helena? Outside the Bay Area she's probably best known for Mustard's Grill, but she was actually one of the founding chefs of Fog City as well. Anyhow, just wondering as I'm going there for lunch tomorrow. Man, what a haul!!

[aggie94]

Nope, never been there, but please let me know how you like it! We may be returning to Napa this summer for a weekend, so I am always looking for great eateries there.

Interesting that I loved Fog City Diner, given my animosity towards Mustard's. :o I had no idea about that connection!

[Jezebelly]

Definitely the Embarcadero around the pier 39 area. Stopping @ Harry Mason is a MUST. www.harrymason.com Also stop @ the crazy hat store and the crazy sock store. Oh, and the crystal store. Francisco's restaurant is yummy too. And take pics of those fat sea lions or whatever they are. They like yelling and showing off for the camera. There's also a great photography/nature art gallery there too. Better unusual souveniers than the typical SF merchandise all around that area. Also, go to Ghiradelli Square, (up Jones St. (?) from the wharf.) The street artists occassionally have good charcoals up around there too. But yes, take a jacket. Windy windy windy.

Has anyone mentioned the Haight? You've gotta see it, just to say you've seen it. Anyone know if it's farmer's market time of year yet? I got some of the bestest cherries ever from some random bodega on the Haight.

In downtown SF, there's a blues joint, Biscuits and Blues or Blues & Bones - I never remember until I get there - but it's near 2nd on Mason. Very cool place. Awesome shopping in dt SF too.

I know it's probably unpopular to say so, but stopping @ Jack London Square in Oakland is fun too. There's an awesome sushi restaurant down there - again, I'm name challenged. Cute little boutiques too.

Be sure to check out the mural in the park in Berkley.

Muir woods is phenomenal.

Also, if you have time, Pacifica is beautiful and serene.

Sounds like a blast, btw. Have a great trip!

[Canice]

Well, I'm sure it's ages since she was with Fog City (don't even know if she's still behind Mustards?) but she was also one of the founding chefs of Bix (http://www.bixrestaurant.com/flash/index.html), still the best spot in town to enjoy a martini!

[Canice]

Our farmers' markets are year-round :) and have been discussed exhaustively on this thread, as well as Kellie's picks for the Haight (though she neglected to mention breakfast at The Pork Store!).

When I visit cities I enjoy seeing the neighborhoods, so I avoid Pier 39/wharf -type places like the plague, so I guess it depends on personal likes. I myself would recommend skipping Pier 39 for sure, and not bothering with the wharf, but if it speaks to you - go!
In a town of wonderful restaurants, though, I sure wouldn't eat there.

[Jezebelly]

Our farmers' markets are year-round :) and have been discussed exhaustively on this thread, as well as Kellie's picks for the Haight (though she neglected to mention breakfast at The Pork Store!).

When I visit cities I enjoy seeing the neighborhoods, so I avoid Pier 39/wharf -type places like the plague, so I guess it depends on personal likes. I myself would recommend skipping Pier 39 for sure, and not bothering with the wharf, but if it speaks to you - go!


Guess it would help if I didn't have the attention span of a gnat when reading the thread. I miss the bay. =o(

[Jezebelly]

(was Lombard St. mentioned?)

[aggie94]

When I visit cities I enjoy seeing the neighborhoods, so I avoid Pier 39/wharf -type places like the plague, so I guess it depends on personal likes. I myself would recommend skipping Pier 39 for sure, and not bothering with the wharf, but if it speaks to you - go!

Just FTR, we only went to Pier 39 to visit Aquarium of the Bay. You know my DH and aquariums. :rolleyes: Otherwise, I avoid places like that too.

[Jezebelly]

ZOMG! I HAVE to go to the wharf every time I'm there! I have to get all roped up into that trampoline bungi jumping thingie so my daughter can laugh at me. I also bought me a leopard print with faux fur trim 10 gallon cowboy hat from the crazy hat store just because I never see things like that in CO.

Oh, and a couple of tee-shirts for my husband. One that reads, "Hey Princess - Get me a beer!" and another that reads, "Sometimes I wake up grumpy....and sometimes I let her sleep."

He doesn't ever wear them, but I dig 'em.

And I think I have something like - I dunno - 400 pairs of Harry Mason Earspirals by now. Love them!

[Canice]

Hey Jennifer! (lol, she "left the building" days ago!) I meant to suggest you get yourself a copy of Patricia Unterman's book San Francisco Food Lover's Pocket Guide (http://www.amazon.com/Patricia-Untermans-Francisco-Lovers-Guide/dp/1580088333/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9337354-0720908?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176396722&sr=1-1). She's been a food critic for the SF Chronicle and SF Examiner, owns a venerable seafood restaurant (Hayes Street Grill), and is an authority on all manners Food in the Bay Area. She's done full-size books, but this slimmed down one is perfect for carrying with you and for such a short trip. It focuses mostly on the city, but it might be helpful to you for picking East Bay places, and for reference in walking around the city. Just a thought.
Also, I've never looked at this one myself, but I've heard the Not for Tourists Guide to San Franicsco (http://www.amazon.com/Not-Tourists-Guide-Francisco-2007/dp/0977803163/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9337354-0720908?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176397100&sr=1-1) is invaluable for getting around.

[jrichards]

Thanks for all the additional info everyone!! I haven't been able to spend time here for a few days, and it was exciting to see more replies.

Canice - the picture you posted outside Ferry Plaza building looked beautiful. I can't wait to go there.

Based on all the votes for the Ferry Plaza farmers market, and eating there (Slanted Door and getting a chicken bun from Out the Door), and the view, I think I should swap the Sat/Sun plans. Sat morning/day would be spent at Ferry's market, while Sun would be at GGP.

Jezebelly - I am excited about visiting Harry Mason. I LOVE earrings/fun jewelry, and they have some very cool things posted on their website. I sometimes get a bit squeamish about using threaded earrings, think I could handle their ear spirals? They look really pretty.

Also, what park in Berkeley has murals that are can't miss?

Lombard wasn't mentioned here, but I do know about it. Crookedest street in the nation? Was the "Real World San Francisco" house on this street? :o

Canice - will take suggestions over Café Macaroni and Fog City. Had listed them based on other postings I read. Though I do like the idea of being in North Beach for dinner to then walk and explore further (City Lights, Tosca Cafe, etc.)

However, know Eva gives it a good review, and I haven't had an amaretto sour in forever, but sounds like the place to have them again.

Eva - thanks for the info on the private tastings too.

Jennifer

[Canice]

Hey, Jennifer! I think that's a good idea about swapping out your Saturday and Sunday plans: Nothing lost by doing so, and you catch the market (and aren't Sundays meant to be spent in parks and museums?). But do try to get there early, as it's a madhouse in summertime (as Eva mentioned). You might ask your host (guessing you're staying with a friend in Berkeley?) if you can somehow catch the Alameda ferry to the city, then you're right there!

I'm afraid I don't know anything about Berkeley murals, but Tilden is the most notable park of the area. Maybe Tyra knows??

Lombard Street is called "the crookedest street in the world" by the brochures, but in fact, there's a stretch on Vermont Street, on Potrero Hill here in SF, that is even MORE crooked -- just doesn't make the brochures or have the views and landscaping. Funny you mention "The Real World" - I recall having seen it a couple of times and in fact it WAS somewhere near Lombard Street, but I don't recall where. However, should you need views of the "Mrs. Doubtfire", "Party of Five", "Suddenly Susan", or "Full House" houses, let me know! :p

Two blocks over from Lombard is Filbert Street, which has the steepest block in the city - or one of the steepest - a 32% grade on one block (between Hyde and Leavenworth Streets). I've had to hoof it more than once, and let me tell you, even as one accustom to inclines, it's a *mother* to walk up!

For dinner:

Fog City
I'm gonna back off the Fog City thing. I really do think it makes sense/is convenient to your Alcatraz tour. Like Eva, I've hung out there with our Emily (for Happy Hour oysters at a buck a pop, and Half Price Wine on Mondays - first bottle is 50% off!). Nothing wrong with the place at all, and good eats. To be honest, my reasons for challenging it were:
• Odd location: It's across from/nearly part of, Levi's Plaza -- Levi Strauss world HQ. It sits between the Financial District and Fisherman's Wharf - dead as a doornail on a Sunday. Could almost be said of a Monday or a Tuesday, as well. --But pretty!
• I've spent a large part of my adult, working life in that neighborhood and don't see it as a place I'd want to be unless at a client lunch (read: baggage! :p)
• This is a restaurant town, and everyone's constantly chasing the latest, most interesting or happening or neighborhood charming spot, and Fog City has been around for decades. Nothing to complain about, but it's old hat as far as exploring the dining scene goes.
Still, seems like a good bet if you need to be on a ferry to Alcatraz after dinner. One nearby place I was going to ask you to consider is one I haven't been to yet, Coi (http://www.coirestaurant.com/) - it's gotten some very good reviews. But you know, I'll bet Fog City will be just fine. Just be prepared for it to be pretty quiet on the street there.
But order up an Amaretto Sour and don't give the world a thought!


Caffe Macaroni
OK, I'm sure I'm one one of the endorsers from earlier posts. But as suggested before, I haven't been there in ages. And as noted above, there's always something new, a more current place. For all I know, it's as fine as ever -- it's just that no one talks about it anymore. I dunno. But I totally agree with you: dinner in or near North Beach and a visit to City Lights, bum around North Beach, maybe enjoy the house specialty drink at Tosca (or start off with an Anchor Steam Beer at Vesuvius across the street) is all a good idea. As Kellie noted, Tosca is a favorite hangout for LA actors in town, and Francis Ford Coppola has offices across the street, so you may have some unexpected company on the next bar stool.

North Beach restaurants tend to cater to the tourist trade, so I think you'd do well by going to Caffe Macaroni, even if it's a bit dated and on the fringe of North Beach - it will always be a locals' place. But I'll put on my thinking cap and come back if I have any suggestions that might me more "au currant". I'm thinking something on Russian Hill would be nice, and you could amble DOWN into North Beach afterward. Russian Hill is a great residential neighborhood, and has loads of fantastic local restaurants, so let's keep that on the short list.

Watch this space!

[Jezebelly]

(Hi Jennifer, I'm Maya.)
You'll do absolutely perfectly with ear spirals. They're so light, you don't even know you're wearing them. I never cared about earrings before; I had a pair of pearls, a pair of diamonds, a gold pair and a silver pair - and that was it. All based on practical wardrobe accessories.

I forgot to include my current favorites on their bug antler holders, but...

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/psychogirliness/self/hmdj.jpg

I quickly became an earspiral FIEND! :D I would pick up a couple of pairs every time I was out there. I wasn't kidding when I said I have 400+ pairs. They're wonderful, I love them.

[rholland2020]

Just wanted to let you know my sisters & I took this tour and had a ball! Have a great time on your trip!
Rebecca

[tbb113]

I have no idea about murals in Berkeley. If you like murals though, I would highly recommend doing a tour with Precita Eyes Mural Arts and Visitor Center (http://www.precitaeyes.org/). I did one years ago and found it really interesting.

Okay...I just googled Berkeley murals and found this link (http://epicarts.org/mural/index.html) Don't know if it was what the other person meant though....

[Jezebelly]

Oh, sorry. I was talking about the murals in People's Park. Some on the rec. center and then the ceramic moasic. Lots of hippie history. Groovy stuff.

[Canice]

What kind of food/restaurants are interesting to you, Jennifer?

You mentioned seafood, and this place serves up "Venetian tapas". Here's a review (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/01/31/DD220984.DTL&type=food) that's quite old, but the place still made the SF Chronicle's Top 100 list a couple of weeks ago. You'll see the review mentions nearby Antica Trattoria (http://www.anticasf.com/) which would also be a good choice. It's on the corner of Polk and Union and you can walk right over Union Street into North Beach. It's a lovely walk and there are loads of restaurants and cafés and shops on Polk Street (oops think I mentioned that early on in this thread). I've recommended Luella on the BB before (sorry, don't remember to whom) and it got a great review. While not new, another place in the area is Frascati, which is a charming neighborhood spot on the Hyde Street cable car line. Sort of Mediterranean/California/local cuisine in a very warm atmoshphere.

Let me know what you're looking for, and I'll see what I can come up with. I recommend making all your reservations via opentable.com - it's the easiest way.
HTH

[Canice]

Nope, never been there, but please let me know how you like it! We may be returning to Napa this summer for a weekend, so I am always looking for great eateries there.

Interesting that I loved Fog City Diner, given my animosity towards Mustard's. :o I had no idea about that connection!


Well, Cindy's was a delight! We sat under a 100-year-old fig tree in the courtyard and sipped Viognier in a pleasant spring afternoon. My little old mother ordered the rabbit tostada, and I had the Chinatown duck burger. Mmmm-mmm! It was moist and tender and flavorful, and had a pleasingly sweet hoisin-type glaze over top, and a shiitake mushroom ragú.
We started off with the roasted artichoke and herb-infused aioli, and finished with the Campfire Pie, which was recently featured on the Food Network ("Giada's Weekend Getaways" - Napa): Toasted marshmallow fluff, fudgy chocolate, almond ding & Oreo cookie crust. I don't usually like overly sweet desserts, but that was pretty darned tasty. And didn't feel heavy at all.

There are just a few tables outside in the courtyard, under the fig tree, and then several dining rooms inside, all of which are meant to convey warm and homey coziness. And they do so! It's a pretty small space in an old house and there's mattress ticking for bench covers in the booths, a curio cabinet in one corner, half-curtains in the main dining room, etc. Very sweet. The service hit the perfect note for me: Friendly, helpful (KNOWS the menu), shows up when wanted and keeps a low profile when NOT wanted. I liked it overall, but don't know that I would love it if I'd travelled far to be there. For a 40 minute drive from my mom's -- lovely! If I were visiting from out of town -- I don't know.

And if you dislike Mustards, there's probably no reason to visit Cindy's. Not the same menu at all, but the same style. I'd try something new. FWIW, Pawlcyn still does own Mustards, and owns Go Fish as well. She sold out her SF interests years ago..........

[Canice]

PS: I was munching on a grilled ham and Swiss sammy today, at our local greasy spoon, and reading the April "Gourmet" magazine --- which had a Page 3 feature on Cindy Pawlcyn, outlining her accomplishments and the dishes of Cindy's Backstreet Bistro, et.

[jrichards]

Hi all -

I had a fabulous trip!!! I'll report more later when I get some time, but your recs and info really helped out.

Thanks again.

Jennifer

[jrichards]

My aunt/uncle live in Berkeley, so we stayed with them. However, my aunt was away for the weekend, and my uncle was only getting back from a 2 week European business trip on Sat night. We didn't really see them until dinner Mon (beyond brief times at breakfast).

FRI, 6/1
- Explored Berkeley
- Walked down Telegraph and around campus. Ate at a good Indian place on Telegraph.
- Checked out downtown area

SAT, 6/2
- Farmers Market at Ferry Building. This was AMAZING! Spent most of the day here checking out all the booths, samples, inside stores, and also the artists market.
- Went to Fisherman's Wharf/Pier39 area.
- Bought some cool spiraly earrings at Harry Mason
- Dinner in Berkeley
- Nightclub tour in SF that night. Tons of fun!

SUN, 6/3
- Explored Golden Gate Park. Went to Japanese Tea Garden, walked around other areas, and walked all the way to the Pacific Ocean.
- Alcatraz night tour

MON, 6/4
- Wine country. The weather here is much nicer than in SF. :) It was also very beautiful, and so much fun.
- Only made it to 2 wineries. Didn't realize/forgot that so many of them close early, anywhere from 4-6pm.
- V. Sattui was a lot of fun for the tasting, and we bought up a bunch of stuff from their great deli (and bottle of wine) to sit outside and eat for our picnic.
- Sterling was beautiful, and tram ride fun. However, didn't like their wines or the atmosphere as much as at V. Sattui.
- Dinner in Berkeley (with my relatives). Great Japanese restaurant called Kirala.

TUES, 6/5
- Chinatown walking tour and dim-sum lunch. Loved this!
- Explored around the city. Ended up near Ghiradelli square/the water, and walking all along the area.
- Walked down Lombard street and then all down Columbus Avenue. Tons of amazing restaurants and gelatto/bakeries.

WED, 6/6
- Shopping around Haight Ashbury area
- Home. :(

I wanted to post a couple pictures, but something is going on with them. I can't access them at all!

Have a good day everyone, and thanks again.

Jennifer

[Canice]

Glad everything worked out for you! Sounds like you didn't have any trouble filling your days.