Vets: doggie dental procedure issues

[JackieO]

There was a thread about a month or so ago regarding someone's dog who had undergone a procedure that required anesthesia....the dog took several hours to come out of the drug-induced haze and was miserable.

I have since heard that if the animal gets IV fluids while under, the "coming around" part is a lot less disorienting/miserable for humans and pet.

Long story short: We have a 10 y/o Shih Tzu that we adopted three years ago. At his last visit (that DH took him to), the vet recommended we schedule a tooth cleaning, exam and possible extraction. We have Waldo's vet records from his previous owner, and there's no record of any previous dental treatment. On the other hand, the dog doesn't have any dental issues that are obvious -- he eats Iams mini-chunks, doesn't have really bad breath (beyond what you'd expect for a 10-y/o animal), and gets minimal table scraps. He has the full complement of dog teeth, and while there appears to be quite a bit of plaque/discoloration, the teeth seem to be in fine shape for a dog his age.

question: if there's nothing obviously wrong, do we put him under for a procedure that seems to be optional? He's 10.....And if we do it, do we request fluids? :confused:

[luv2cook]

I am not a vet, but I've had some experience with this issue myself -- dogs and cats.

Anesthesia - most use isoflurane (sp). it's the safest that I know -- and I'm sure to be corrected if I'm not. Ask the vet what they use. Also, i like to know if the tech is going to do it or the vet...(cleaning, that is.)

Their teeth need to be cleaned because of bacteria. Take a hard, close look at the gums -- if you can see a dark red color next to the gum line -- or the opposite -- pale gums, you have a problem.

Also, there's stuff you can't see that they can get rid of AND while they're in there, they check to make sure teeth aren't rotten. Something you also can't see.

One of my male cats had a half rotten tooth that I had NO idea was there and was causing him considerable pain.

I can't comment on the IV part -- but I can say that none of my animals ever suffered after anesthesia -- and I'm counting at least 10 times under -- different ones...

[JackieO]

Thanks for the info....anything I can gather, anecdotal or otherwise, helps. I understand the importance of good dental health/hygiene, but I'm also skeptical of putting an animal of that age under anesthesia w/out a symptom. I've had several mutts who never had dental treatment, and I want to balance the health benefits and risks/cost with this procedure.

[Cookin4Love]

Our 8 1/2 year old shepard mix had an extraction under anesthesia a couple of months ago. While she definitely was "off" for a few hours, she recovered quickly with no ill effects. If anything, she is friskier now than before. I'm sure the abscess had been building up and causing her a lot of pain. It's definitely something to do for you pet's overall health, as the bacteria that build up on the teeth can travel to vital organs, too.

[luv2cook]

It shouldn't be that much. I have big dogs (63 & 55) - yeah, yeah, I know, not big by some people's standards;) and they quoted me between $120-50 at my new vet's office.

For a small dog like yours, should be less (I would imagine, that is)!

[Peggy C.]

I had my dogs teeth cleaned while he was "put under" for another procedure. It was costly because he is large, but worth it. My vet took before and after pics and the difference is considerable. I don't know if they did IV fluids but her recovered fairly quickly. Although he did look like a drunken sailor on the way out to the car.

[ErinM]

Cody is a shih tzu, and recently underwent this very same procedure. He is 8 years old. The reason why I chose to have his teeth cleaned is because he had one tooth that looked pretty bad, with what I thought to be some tartar buildup. I had also heard about how bacteria can move into his bloodstream and harm other organs, so I felt it was time to have it done. Turned out that one was dead. Also, he had a lot of root fractures (teeth that were fractured below the gum line), mainly due to the fact that shih tzu have very tiny mouths and lots of teeth. He ended up needing about 8 extractions. There were more that they wanted to take, but that was all I could afford. We did take care of the ones that were most likely to be causing pain.

As for the anesthesia, he looked like one stoned dog when I bought him home! He was out of it within about 3 hours and was ready to eat his normal food again, but was totally loving the chicken and rice he got to eat for two weeks. I'm glad I had it done this one time, but am uncertain as to whether I'd do it again, FWIW. I do give him some teeth cleaning chews (besides Greenies) so I'm hoping that will help, and I'm supposed to be brushing his teeth, but you try explaining that one to a shih tzu and see how far you get. I haven't had much luck with that!

Good luck with what you decide!

[Jezebelly]

My dog just had her dental on the 17th. She gets one every year. This time she was very sick from the anesthesia. She threw up 5 or 6 times after I got her home and then had #2 troubles for a couple of days.

She did get IV fluids, but didn't need that shot that speeds up the heart while she was under.

I'm thinking that I might move her dental to every two years because it made her so sick. Also, I have to break up her annual vaccinations because she had a reaction, (fever and extreme soreness,) the last time she had them all together. None of this stuff ever used to bother her.

I think these reactions are age related - maybe ask your vet if your dog's age could be a factor?

[beckms]

There was a thread about a month or so ago regarding someone's dog who had undergone a procedure that required anesthesia....the dog took several hours to come out of the drug-induced haze and was miserable.

Every animal reacts differently to drugs. Some animals take a few hours or a day to get back to normal after anesthesia, some are bouncing off the table as soon as they wake up. It's not necessarily bad if they take longer to recover.

I have since heard that if the animal gets IV fluids while under, the "coming around" part is a lot less disorienting/miserable for humans and pet.

IV fluids simply keeps the animal hydrated. One of the effects of gas anesthesia is to lower blood pressure, among other things, so keeping the fluid volume of the body supplemented during a procedure helps to combat the deleterious effects of low blood pressure (such as kidney damage, etc). I doubt it really has much to do with how disoriented they are afterwards. There are some vets who put every animal on IV fluids, and here are some who have an age cutoff and only put older animals on IV fluids. It really depends on the health of the animal and how long they'll be under. The longet the procedure, the more time they'll be exposed to the effects of the gas anesthesia.

On the other hand, the dog doesn't have any dental issues that are obvious -- he eats Iams mini-chunks, doesn't have really bad breath (beyond what you'd expect for a 10-y/o animal), and gets minimal table scraps. He has the full complement of dog teeth, and while there appears to be quite a bit of plaque/discoloration, the teeth seem to be in fine shape for a dog his age.

I can almost guarantee that there are underlying dental problems, simply by knowing his breed and his age. :o Also, the fact that you can see obvious plaque/discoloration automatically means that there are more problems. Plaque is just the tip of the iceberg! He may not need extractions, but he could probably benefit from a good thorough cleaning. Of course, your vet is the one who as seen his mouth and is the best judge.

question: if there's nothing obviously wrong, do we put him under for a procedure that seems to be optional? He's 10.....And if we do it, do we request fluids? :confused: It's a good question. We always say, 'age is not a disease' and therefore should not preclude an animal from going under anesthesia, however, with age comes the potential for systemic problems like heart disease, cancer, etc. So it's really important for your dog to have a thorough physical exam with basic bloodwork prior to undergoing anesthesia to make sure you're not missing something important. And yes, IV fluids are a good idea for an older guy under anesthesia. :)

Unless he's got some raging dental problem that really needs t be addressed, it may not be absolutely crucial for him to have a cleaning. But what if he does develop a problem when he's 12 or 13 that could have been avoided by taking care of it when he was 10? If you don't want to put him under now, you're really not going to want to in two or three years. There's always a risk with anesthesia; you just have to weigh the benefits. Your vet should be able to help you decide.

Good luck!

[JackieO]

But what if he does develop a problem when he's 12 or 13 that could have been avoided by taking care of it when he was 10? If you don't want to put him under now, you're really not going to want to in two or three years. There's always a risk with anesthesia; you just have to weigh the benefits. Your vet should be able to help you decide.

Good luck!

Thanks so much for the thorough reply! :) I'm not a worrier by nature and I do understand the benefits of the procedure. I was more curious about what to expect afterward, I guess. I'm going to talk with the vet today, and now I will sound more intelligent when I do so! :D

[avariell]

i am going to echo some of the points that beckms brought up-
i think you should weigh the pros and cons. i have a very crazy great dane. it is not worth my time, energy or money to take him to the vet to get his teeth cleaned (and i am pretty sure my SIL, who is my vet, is grateful for this). if you think it will cause a lot of stress to either you or the animal and you don't consider it worth it, then i definitely don't think you should be judged for not doing it (and i am not saying anyone here was doing the judging... just commenting) :)

[beckms]

Anesthesia - most use isoflurane (sp). it's the safest that I know -- and I'm sure to be corrected if I'm not.



Isoflurane is probably the most common. It's certainly the gas anesthesia that is most commonly used at the teaching hospital at Tufts!

The other option that you might come across is sevoflurane. It's newer than isoflurane, and the basic difference is that animals tend to wake up faster from sevo than from iso. Sevo is also more expensive, although it's been out for a few years now so it might be starting to come down in price.

As I mentioned before, there is always a risk associated with anesthesia. The gases are drugs that slow the heart/breathing and lower the blood pressure. They are used so commonly that we have lots of protocols in place to combat the negative effects, and commonly an animal will receive an injection of a drug that will speed up the heart as they're going under the gas, to prevent it from getting too slow. These gases are "safe" in the sense that they've been in use for a long time and vets and techs are comfortable using them and monitoring patients for some of the risks involved.

[luv2cook]

Also, I have to break up her annual vaccinations because she had a reaction, (fever and extreme soreness,)

Are all of these shots necessary? I fairly certain you can get a waiver regarding shots -- rebecca, do you know??? -- if an animal has bad reactions to shots?

[aggie94]

Jackie,

I understand and sympathize with your struggle. We have three dogs and they all went in for their annual exams in February. We typically get their teeth cleaned every year, but we don't take them in all at once, so our vet prioritized their teeth cleanings. We just had the second one done for Brandy, our oldest. She is 14+ and a 55-poundish shepherd mix. While she was under, we also had some fatty tumors removed. The surgery and anesthesia were VERY hard on her this time, much more so than in the past, and we think this is the last time we will put her through it (unless it was medically necessary, of course). We intend to brush her teeth regularly and seal them so that we can try to keep them as maintained as possible but I don't think I want to put her under again if we can avoid it. But she is also quite a bit older than yours, and probably has a shorter life span.

The last one that needs to be done is our older beagle, who is 13. We have been putting him off, because he's had some medical issues lately and the vet did not want to stress him anymore with another procedure. So now, we are in a similar situation where we are trying to decide whether to do it at all. His teeth are the best of the three, and we brush them regularly and give a lot of dental treats to try to keep them clean and his gums healthy, so we're not sure anymore with him whether we want to put him under or just to manage his teeth on our own. They do try to scrape off some of the plaque when he's in getting his chiro treatments once a week, and that might just have to be enough.

Our youngest is 9 years and I don't hesitate to continue to have her teeth cleaned annually and will keep doing so until it the benefits seem to be outweighed by the risks and side effects.

HTH.

[JackieO]

Thanks for all the information, folks!

I spoke with the principal vet at the practice today, who will be assisting one of the junior vets who will take care of Waldo on Wednesday. They do the blood work first thing to rule out any underlying conditions that would advise against the procedure. If he checks out, they give him some anesthetic that doesn't put him into a "too deep" sleep (I didn't ask for the name), and they don't think there are any extractions required. The best thing I learned is that he does his recovery under their care -- he goes in about 7:30 or 8 am and we will get a call to pick him up between 3 and 6 pm, and he should be good to go (if tired) and able to eat normally if there are no extractions.

I feel a lot better after hearing from all of you and talking with him.

So, say a quick little prayer for my Wally on Tuesday night, ok?

Thanks.

[aggie94]

Jackie,

It sounds like Wally will be in very good hands. I'll be thinking of both of you on Tuesday.

One thing my clinic does that I always appreciate is that they call me throughout the day - usually when my pet is about to go in for the procedure, after the procedure is done, and when he/she is awake and recovering. And they are always happy to oblige if I call to check in on things - they will find a nurse or the vet (if she is available) to give me a quick status report.

I'm sure Wally will be fine.

[mcgeiger]

Sorry I didn't have time to post (I was actually doing a dental with extractions;) ...) but it sounds like you've gotten great responses, and a vet who is willing to work with you...
and 10 isn't close to old for most small breeds!!!

[JackieO]

Just had a call from the vet tech -- Waldo came through his dental procedure just fine, and while he'll be coming home fully groomed, he will be missing 7 teeth! :eek: Yikes! Some bottom incisors were loose as well as one tooth on top -- she said Wally will never miss them! Ok....how many teeth do Shih Tzus have, anyway??

We are to pick him up after 3 o'clock. When I talked to the vet earlier in the week, he said he could probably eat his regular food, but I'm not sure that's the case if he had extractions. Better remember to ask when we go to pick him up.

Thanks for all your advice and comments.

[beckms]

Just had a call from the vet tech -- Waldo came through his dental procedure just fine, and while he'll be coming home fully groomed, he will be missing 7 teeth! :eek: Yikes! Some bottom incisors were loose as well as one tooth on top -- she said Wally will never miss them! Ok....how many teeth do Shih Tzus have, anyway??

We are to pick him up after 3 o'clock. When I talked to the vet earlier in the week, he said he could probably eat his regular food, but I'm not sure that's the case if he had extractions. Better remember to ask when we go to pick him up.

Thanks for all your advice and comments.

Oh good, you must be relieved. :)

Dogs can do amazingly well with just a few teeth. They gum their food pretty effectively! But 7 extractions leaves him with plenty to crunch with (I have to confess I don't know how many teeth are in a full set off the top of my head...)

You might want to have a couple of cans of wet food to give him for the next couple of days just in case, but he also might feel well enough to eat the dry.

[SueK]

Jackie - glad to hear your dog made it through the procedure w/no problems.

Our Basset just had 10 teeth extracted last Tuesday. The next day I gave him rice, but by that night, he had had enough of it, and just wanted his regular dry food. Losing all those teeth didn't seem to slow him down! :)

[ErinM]

Glad to hear he came through OK. The exact same thing happened with Cody. They really have more teeth than you think they do, and feel less pain than we do, too!

I fed Cody some canned chicken with rice, and his normal food all moistened with water and mashed together to make mush. He loved it. More than his real food. He'd cry because I couldn't make it fast enough. I kept telling him "Good food takes time!" and then he'd scarf it down in 10 minutes.

And once they're back on regular food, he'll still be able to chew on bones/cookies. Cody's an absolute champ at that, the missing teeth don't bother him at all!