If you play golf, you'll feel our pain

[luv2cook]

1/2 rant, 1/2 argument to settle.

I used to play golf hot and heavy and then life throws curve balls and I quit for 1.5 years. I now only play sporadically. I don't practice because I have a shoulder problem and I've been trying to get that settled before I step up to practicing and committed to lessons. I have about 2 years under me.

SO DH and I normally try to play by ourselves when we do go out but today got stuck w/a husband-wife couple. I thought it would be fun for a change, but it turned out to be the longgggggggggggggest day of our golfing lives.

She had been playing only six months. He, who cares. He apparently had never had lesssons and played baseball for 30 years and had a baseball swing. He was coaching his wife constantly -- and I mean constantly -- on how to play but his game sucked. It took her 20 swings to get to the green and she didn't pick up. Not once.

They didn't know course management. we had to wait on them constantly. And I mean constantly. It was absolutely excruciating. What's really sad is I outdrove both of them regularly. I've never outdriven even the suckiest of male golfers consistently ever! They usually would do it by sheer strenghth not because of their swing -- trust me.

Now, I am no golfing know-it-all, BUT I had enough common sense when I was first learning to know when to pick up when I felt like i was holding other people up. I learned golfing etiquette from my DH, who has been playing for 25 years, plus golf magazines.

Here's where my DH and I got into a rather heated argument. I felt like we should have schooled them about their green etiquette. Course management, couldn't really do anything about that but lead by example and they still didn't get it.

The wife had not been taught by husband to rake sand traps. I reminded her. Wife didn't have a ball marker and we were constantly having her putt out until I finally asked her if she had a ball marker? She didn't get the hint. Husband walked in my line. Husband yanked flag w/out asking either of us, who were still off, if we wanted in or out. The list goes on and on.

DH said it's not our job to school them. Then whose job is it? How are these people supposed to learn what they don't know? Wife missed her tee shot ball. Wife thought ball that was 175 yards away was her tee shot! She hit someone else's ball and my DH let her. He said if they can't keep track of their balls, so be it. You can't tell me that she actually thought her ball went 175 yards??? I mean, her tee shots averaged 30- 75 yards at best!!! I disagreed w/DH and told her her ball was back yonder -- unfortunately only after she hit someone else's ball.

My DH was miserable. Unfortunately, we couldn't dump them. There was no where to go until the very end and we blew off two holes because Dh had had enough. My Dh is a long hitter -- about 270-300 yards off the tee. Every time Dh would bomb one out there, the husband would say, "Ohhh, can I touch you?" I thought he would strangle him!

We constantly told them we play ready golf. It was SO bad that we actually got a whole hole, and towards the end, a hole and a half behind. On one par 3 wife was in the sand and she swung -- I kid you not -- 10 times. Finally, by the grace of the golf gods, she got out and then proceeded to blow the green. By this point, there were people behind us waiting, watching. I would drop hints about our slow play -- didn't get it. We finally started showing them their balls, driving our cart over there to their balls. I was coaching wife to grab her clubs and walk with me while husband got the cart around. Just awful.

Should we have schooled them or not or just pray in the future that the golf gods would smile upon us and find us a fun couple to play with???? We have never found a fun couple to play with. Ever. So sad.

Sorry for long rant, but I've never had this experience before. We really wanted to bury them in the sand traps or the water!!!!

[Peweh]

Ahhhhhh I feel your pain. I'm not a fantastic golfer but usually OK enough not to embarrass myself or the guys I play with and am Ultra Paranoid - Must Play Ready Golf! I get frustrated easily and always play "Best Ball" style for my own sanity, I don't need a Snowman (8) on every hole.

Anyway your post reminded me of the time my dad had my brother fill in for him with some guys from Dad's work and this one guy was such a jerk my brother said he considered faking diarrhea to get out of finishing the round! LOL there's an idea for next time this happens to you.....

[Peggy]

Cringe...:( I definately feel your pain. Yikes!!! It is amazing to me that this couple was so dense and insensitive that they were unaware of the burden they were placing on the other golfers on the course. Talk about clueless.:rolleyes: I've been golfing for over 20 years and I am constantly aware of the golfers behind us and if our foursome is moving too slowly. If I'm having a bad day on the course, I have been known to pick up my ball and sit the rest of the hole out if I feel I am slowing things down too much. Over the years, we have golfed with some "challenging" couples but nothing close to what you had to put up with today. Unbelievable. You and your DH are saints!!!

Moving onto the arguement... I showed your post to my DH and then we discussed what we would do in a similar situation. We both agreed that we would have attempted to gently educate this clueless couple on the rules of the course and the basics of golf ettiquette. We would have tried to be as diplomatic as possible, and focused mainly on the most important points - picking up your ball after 7-8 swings/hole, playing "ready" golf, the problems with slow play, raking the traps. Perhaps we could have empathized with them being new golfers and suggested that they play "best ball" (using your DH's drives;) ) in order to keep things moving appropriately, while still gaining important experience playing on the course. I do feel that when you are playing in a foursome that you DO have a responsibility to the golfers behind you to ensure that your group keeps pace with the golfers ahead of you.

That's my 2 cents worth... I hope this experience will not keep you off the course in the future.

Peggy

[luv2cook]

:eek: Peggy, that's what I thought. The husband wasn't new to golf, tho. That was the frustrating part! He had been playing for years and the wife took it up to play with him -- kind of like I did w/my DH.

Honestly, this had never happend to him before. I mean, he either has people to play with that he knows or he plays with me. There really wasn't much in between. I have mostly played w/men when we have been stuck playing w/someone and never had anything even close.

Oh, well. I feel like I did, to some degree, try and school them. When we left them, she said to us, "Thanks for your patience." It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut!!!!! :rolleyes:

[Grace]

I would say it depends upon the people. We don't play golf, but DH is a professional bowler and there are also "rules" (and etiquette) in bowling. So many times people don't know those rules. If it's a bunch of rowdy drunk young guys next to us who are being rude/stupid, DH doesn't usually bother trying to tell them anything. Mostly though it's parents with children, so he goes over and very politely tells them what the etiquette is and why (so they don't think he's just a stickler for rules, but there's a real reason for it - for example, crossing over the foul line is very dangerous!! They put oil out on the lanes and if you go over the line and step in it, you can fall and hurt yourself badly - we saw one person DIE - they went out on the lane, slipped, feet went out from under them and fell backwards and whacked their head really hard).

He'll always tell children if it's just kids all by themselves. Most people are very happy and thankful. If they continue on with their rudeness after we told them, we don't usually bother anymore (or if it's a matter of safety, we'll go tell the counter and have the management enforce the rules). Once they've been told it's not simple ignorance anymore, it's just real rudeness and you can't "make" people be nice and polite and considerate. Unfortunately. :rolleyes:

[luv2cook]

Yeah, I agree with you grace. I dropped obvious hints while we were playing about their play. I realized, tho, that saying anything about course management was going to go over their head. Solid rules on the greens, tho, are what they are. I also heard the husband encourage wife to continue swinging, that they paid their money to play...uhhh...not at everyone behind them's expense, I don't think!

[TieKitty]

Sorry, I had to laugh when I read this post.:D It sounds like a comedy of errors. Anything that could go wrong, did.

I'm a sporadic golfer. Fortunately, my DH taught me how to play (or play at it) and golf etiquette was just as important to him as hitting the ball. We would usually play with another couple and we (the ladies) would play a scramble (hitting the best of each shots). If we got to a double bogie before getting to the green....which was not an unusual occurrence...we would pick up and walk the rest of the way.:p

I can understand your DH not wanting to be confrontational, but if golfers that play with them don't say anything who will? I side with you on this.

[Kay Henderson]

I've never played golf in my life and neither has DH. Consequently, I've never heard of golfing etiquette, course manangement or doing anything at sand traps. Should we decide to take it up, you've convinced me we should either take a class or some lessons so that we do not inconvenience other players.

Hopefully your next outing will be better!

Kay

[LakeMartinGal]

AARGH! What a miserable thing!

I don't even play golf, and I was cringing, reading your post.:rolleyes: I agree that some diplomatic coaching would have been in order. In a similar experience, I joined a scratch bowling league... In bowling, etiquette says that you don't take a lane while someone on either side of you is approaching... in this league, it was 2 lanes on either side. I noticed that, when I took the lane for my approach, the person 2 lanes down got off... so I asked!:o

Too bad your other couple was too insensitive to notice!:(

[Robyn1007]

I agree! I think that nicely informing others of etiquette is essential in any sport where what you are doing affects others.

For example, with skiing, if someone stops in a place where people coming from above can't see them I will stop and let them know it's not a good place to stop (and is against the skier responsibility code so they could technically have their pass or ticket pulled) or one time this year a couple popped out of the trees just below my group of kids as we were getting started down the slopes which could have seriously injured a child. I asked the other coach and parents to watch the kids while I chased the couple down and explained that they needed to be looking upslope long before they pop out of the trees to insure nobody is coming. A friend of mine actually crashed into a girl who didn't look before popping out once and the girl ended up in the hospital.

I frequently see cyclists riding 2-3 abreast on curvy mountain roads here and I'm always tempted to stop and tell them that it is very dangerous, against the law and gives other, responsible, cyclists a bad name.

I know next to nothing about golf but common sense says you don't hold up play of other groups and you do your best to leave the course as you found it (ie raking sand traps). I would have done far more than hint at the girl.

[luv2cook]

I've never played golf in my life and neither has DH. Consequently, I've never heard of golfing etiquette, course manangement or doing anything at sand traps. Should we decide to take it up, you've convinced me we should either take a class or some lessons so that we do not inconvenience other players.
Kay

Wife told me that she had taken a couple lessons from Golf Galaxy. Obviously grip wasn't addressed nor anything basic recommended in the way of etiquette. Wife had a baseball grip (just like husband) and obviously pro didn't do his job. But come to think of it, I don't remember my pro talking too much about etiquette but he also knew my husband was an 8 handicap, too, and had probably schooled me.

I did tell wife that she needed to take lessons and change her grip because it was going to hold her back. She looked at me w/a blank look so I let it go. I was hoping to run into the golf marshall that I had seen talking to them -- if they were friends, I was going to mention it to him but I never saw said guy in orange shirt again. oh, well.

[Peggy]

I just remembered an experience we had golfing on vacation in Fiji. The course wasn't crowded so we were able to golf as a twosome. There was a couple from Japan in front of us; they looked like young honeymooners. He was the golfer and she was obviously just learning. They were sooooo slow and we got frustrated because they were so oblivious to the long line of waiting golfers behind them. This woman actually put her ball back on a tee with EVERY fairway shot - not that this helped her much as each shot gained her about 40-50 yards maximum. :mad: She also never picked up after her 10-12 odd shots down the fairway. I swear she was so attached to playing off of tees that I feared she was going to put on the green off of a tee!!:rolleyes:

Peggy

[luv2cook]

Where was the golf marshall when you need him/her???

[PAMMELA]

I would say it depends upon the people. We don't play golf, but DH is a professional bowler and there are also "rules" (and etiquette) in bowling.


We are also avid bowlers (I met DH in a bowling alley!). Does your DH bowl on the tour? Mine almost went professional, but at the time he didn't have a backer and we couldn't afford him quitting work (after much discussion!). But that was 15+ years ago.

[aggie94]

I am just learning to play golf, so thought I would add my perspective. I have taken several lessons from a local golf pro, and this past weekend, DH & I went out and played a round of 18 (my first).

First off, the "baseball" grip is not technically incorrect, and I don't think it would be appropriate to tell someone that they should use a different grip. I was given that grip as one of several options when I learned, although it's obviously not the preferable one (and my instructor did not encourage it), and it's not the one I generally use (although I do tend to favor it when I'm putting).

Second, some people are not out there to become good golfers. I "fired" my first golf instructor, because he was all about how I would never become a good golfer unless I could dedicate three days a week to practice, blah, blah. I am just out there to have fun and enjoy a few hours with my husband doing something that he loves to do. So she may not care at all about anything that is going to "hold her back."

That said, because I am still a beginner, I am VERY conscious of whether I am holding anyone up. Luckily, there was no one behind us for most of the round on Saturday. So I was taking a couple of practice swings, sometimes hitting a second ball if my first shot was really sucky, etc. But at one point, when we were on one green, I noticed the foursome behind us teeing up. I told DH we needed to hustle, so we did, and given that we were two and they were four, we managed to put quite some distance between us.

It sometimes takes me several shots to get onto the green, and I probably would not pick up my ball because I do want to get some practice playing on a real course, but we certainly would have let anyone waiting on us play through. I am horrified that this couple was so oblivious, and I definitely would have said something (sounds like you tried and probably needed to beat them over the head with really obvious statements), only because their behavior doesn't just make them look bad, it makes YOU look bad too just because you got stuck with them. So in that respect, I have to disagree with your DH's approach to not say anything.

[luv2cook]

I've been playing golf long enough to know correct grips. You're right. Baseball is not wrong, it's just not conducive to getting past a certain point.
You can't pivot correctly and swing your arms correctly w/a baseball grip. it's a limitation. This woman didn't know slice from hook and was totally dominated by her husband.

I still to this day will drop and hit a second ball and I will practice on the course but not at other people's expense. Yesterday there was no time for her to be taking 25 swings. We were behind.

This isn't about whether someone is out to be a great golfer. it was about etiquette and consideration for others.

oh, I just remembered. There was a woman we played w/several years ago who used a baseball grip. She played softball for years. Never had a lesson. She could bomb the ball out there further than I could, but that was it. She couldn't hit her irons and she had no short game to speak of.

What i find truly amazing to this day is all of the ugly swings out there but these men can hit the ball so far. It's just not fair - wah, wah!!!!! I've been told by about 100 people I've got a beautiful swing. great. Tell my beautiful swing to give me the proper timing and I will be SO happy!

[donleyk]

What i find truly amazing to this day is all of the ugly swings out there but these men can hit the ball so far. It's just not fair - wah, wah!!!!! I've been told by about 100 people I've got a beautiful swing. great. Tell my beautiful swing to give me the proper timing and I will be SO happy!

My DM still managed to beat me even though I out drove her constantly. I swore that I would take consistency over being able to blast the ball. She was always on the green in regulation.

FWIW, I do not play golf on the weekends for this exact reason, and not because the woman is learning but because of the husband's attitude. When people don't realize they suck then it's a long afternoon. IMO it's his responsibility to show *whoever* he is teaching golf etiquette. How else are you supposed to learn?

Then there is the marshall. Where were they?

[Grace]

We are also avid bowlers (I met DH in a bowling alley!). Does your DH bowl on the tour? Mine almost went professional, but at the time he didn't have a backer and we couldn't afford him quitting work (after much discussion!). But that was 15+ years ago.

Yes, DH was on the national tour for four years, and bowled regionals for another 10 or so. He has two PBA titles. One against Pete Weber. He didn't stay out on the tour long for the same reason your DH didn't go out - lack of funds. But DH satisfied his yearning to be on tour and to win, so he got it out of his system pretty much and doesn't feel too badly about not being there anymore. You can't make much on tour really, even if you do win. :(

I fell in love with Pete's brother John when DH was bowling a lot. Here's a picture of me and my "boyfriend" ;) (approved by DH - he took the picture! :D ).

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p71ed31a5b5b75e89889dc6adf801cbb8/e93375e0.jpg


Does your DH bowl at the USBC (in Reno this year)? My DH bowls on the Ebonite team. Just asking because maybe they "know" each other.... :)

[luv2cook]

My DM still managed to beat me even though I out drove her constantly. I swore that I would take consistency over being able to blast the ball. She was always on the green in regulation.
I hear ya! I wish we didn't have to play on weekends, but it's really the only time.

I will say this: golf is a humbling game. I've also been told a good short game player will beat a long hitter most of the time.

What's really funny is I was having all sorts of trouble getting off the tee yesterday but last weekend, I couldn't hit my irons! So weird. My dh's putting was off. I actually beat him on several holes. I think he was just so frustrated w/our playing situation it affected his game a lot.

When we play by ourselves, we're relaxed and we don't necessarily follow the rules -- like pick up the balls on the green, remove the flag. But when we play w/other people, we try follow the rules. I didn't take one mulligan yesterday, but I SO wanted to!

[aggie94]

This woman didn't know slice from hook and was totally dominated by her husband.

Yeah, that's why I refused to learn how to play golf from my DH. Just because someone can play a round of golf does not mean that they can teach someone else how to play. I won't take pointers or tips from him either. That's what I pay a professional for. ;)

This isn't about whether someone is out to be a great golfer. it was about etiquette and consideration for others.

I totally agree. There were just a couple of comments that I read that seemed to slam her because she was a beginner or just learning, which is not entirely fair. It's one thing to take 10-12 shots to get on the green (there were holes where I took as many), it's another to not care that you do and that there are others waiting behind you while you're playing slowly (if it had been me, I would have allowed the group behind to play through).

Another thing. Since I am a beginner, we do deliberately pick places to play that are not super challenging and times that are not peak tee times. No way would I play a "premiere" course first thing on a Saturday or Sunday morning. For starters, I am not good enough to pay $100 to play 18 holes. I can play the little 9-hole executive course twice for less than $20. :p More importantly, though, the course would be way too busy with "good" golfers for me to feel comfortable being out there for practice.

Sounds like this couple were just cads. Sorry you got stuck with them. That's one reason I learned to play - so that DH & I could go out with our best friends, who also play, and he wouldn't have to get stuck playing with strangers anymore. You never know who you will get paired up with! When we were on our honeymoon, DH wanted to play Princeville, and I rode along in the cart with him, but they wouldn't let him play solo so they paired him up with this other guy who we swore looked and acted just like Rodney Dangerfield. He kept losing balls (so many that he actually ran out of balls and had to borrow at least 5 from DH, all of which he also lost - we counted that he probably lost close to 20 balls on the course!) and every time he did, or every time he had a not-so-great shot, he would start yelling and cursing and throwing stuff. It was sooooooooo inappropriate that it was almost comical. :eek:

[luv2cook]

There were just a couple of comments that I read that seemed to slam her because she was a beginner or just learning, which is not entirely fair.

Umm, no. Again, this was not about her being a beginner. It was about etiquette and consideration. Where exactly was I slamming her? The fact that she took 15 swings to get out of the sand with people on the tee box behind us? That was my point. not about her being a beginner. At that point she should have picked up. We were holding people up.

We were playing a twilight round for the very reason you mentioned -- I don't feel worthy of playing on a nice course w/my game right now. I thought it was amusing that the husband was coaching her when it was obvious he didn't know what the flip he was doing!
(if it had been me, I would have allowed the group behind to play through).

That was not an option or we would have taken it. All options were considered. the course was backed up. My Dh woudln't have put up w/it if we had had other options.

There have been many times where we have dropped back when i've been struggling. I remember playing at Wildcat and having the absolutely WORST day. I could tell that I was frustrating the guy that was with us so I told dh to let's drop back. we did, I regained my composure and finished out the day.

You are SO lucky you have friends to play with. I wish we did. That's why we play by ourselves.

I remember my first time on the course ever. I couldn't get through 18 holes because I beat that little white ball to death! Dh was so good to me. I don't know HOW he did it, looking back.

[aggie94]

I remember my first time on the course ever. I couldn't get through 18 holes because I beat that little white ball to death! Dh was so good to me. I don't know HOW he did it, looking back.

LOL! I told DH on hole #2 that I was done for the day. :eek: I got frustrated because I kept topping the ball (that has been my only problem since I started taking lessons but I can't seem to fix it consistently) and couldn't get a single ball into the air, except my chip shots, which were all beautiful. :rolleyes: DH was seriously concerned because he really did think I was going to quit after the second hole. I had to keep reminding myself that I am out there to have fun, and that it WAS only my first time. After that, it was better.

Sorry if I misunderstand your comments about her beginner. I do get that it's all about etiquette and consideration for other players. And FWIW, my instructor has not taught anything about etiquette either, but I assume that is because he knows my DH has been playing for years. Probably not a great assumption to go on since this lady's DH has also been playing for years and doesn't have a clue about proper etiquette. :rolleyes:

[luv2cook]

Golf is humbling. It will teach you patience. Patience you didn't think you had! It will make you feel like a complete incompetent at times and other times you are on top of the world. Unbelievable.

If you're topping, it's because you're most likely moving your head. Trust me. been there, still do that!

The positive side of playing w/these hacks is it showed me how far I've come and where i'd like to go. i've given up being the next Annika, but I'll settle for some consistency and some birdies here and there! :)

[Deechef]

OUCH - that was not fun! I can't believe a ranger didn't intercede. No matter what your handicap 10 shots is the max - just pick up! Also, you only get 8 minutes a hole (average). I would have said something cause you paid good money to enjoy your afternoon and they will only frustrate someone else the next time.

[aggie94]

Also, you only get 8 minutes a hole (average).

Are you sure about that?? That would make an 18-hole round less than 2 1/2 hours! I've always thought most rounds take about 4 hours. The course we played on Saturday had a max of 4 hours and 20 minutes and it was not a particularly long or difficult course for a decent player (not me :o). We finished and had the cart returned and our clubs loaded up in exactly 4:00 so we thought we were doing pretty good!

[Deechef]

Are you sure about that?? That would make an 18-hole round less than 2 1/2 hours! I've always thought most rounds take about 4 hours. The course we played on Saturday had a max of 4 hours and 20 minutes and it was not a particularly long or difficult course for a decent player (not me :o). We finished and had the cart returned and our clubs loaded up in exactly 4:00 so we thought we were doing pretty good!

I guess I miss spoke a bit. They usually start people off the first hole in 8 minute increments meaning that you should be finished with your first shots and out of the way in 8 minutes. The hole doesn't take 8 minutes. If you finished in 4 hours then you did well even with the partners from he!!

[aggie94]

It wasn't me with the partners from hell. Luckily. ;)

[Deechef]

It wasn't me with the partners from hell. Luckily. ;)


OOPS............I would have left and asked for my money back. I am fortunate to play at a private club and this would not even be an issue. But there are other issues in a private club :rolleyes:

[PAMMELA]

Yes, DH was on the national tour for four years, and bowled regionals for another 10 or so. He has two PBA titles. One against Pete Weber. He didn't stay out on the tour long for the same reason your DH didn't go out - lack of funds. But DH satisfied his yearning to be on tour and to win, so he got it out of his system pretty much and doesn't feel too badly about not being there anymore. You can't make much on tour really, even if you do win. :(

I fell in love with Pete's brother John when DH was bowling a lot. Here's a picture of me and my "boyfriend" ;) (approved by DH - he took the picture! :D ).

Does your DH bowl at the USBC (in Reno this year)? My DH bowls on the Ebonite team. Just asking because maybe they "know" each other.... :)

Cute pic! Well my DH knows a lot of people and probably would at least know your DH's name if he heard it....i'll PM though instead of asking you here.

And no, DH hasn't really bowled anything 'big' for quite a while - we use to bowl the High Roller in Vegas every year, but that was an amateur only tourney. And you're right, you just can't make that much money, not like golf.