To have or not to have children...

[Unknown]

That is the question of the day. :) (Sorry, I don't mean to make light. I am just stressed. I know this subject is not one to be taken lightly.)

As you can see, I am posting anonymously. No doubt many (or most, maybe all!) of you will know or figure out who I am. That's okay. I don't mind, I just didn't want to put it out there for the world.

I have never wanted children. For as long as I can remember, I've never really been interested in babies or kids. I am generally a pretty self-centered and impatient person, and I don't think I would make a very good parent.

My husband, on the other hand, apparently does want children. Before you go saying this was a conversation we should have had before we married, we did. We certainly did. He's always known that I didn't want children, and I thought he felt the same way. But apparently he either thought I would change my mind, hoped I would change my mind, or just decided he would keep quiet about his true feelings because he wanted to be with me anyway. Or maybe all of the above. He says it's the last one. But I think he hoped I would change my mind.

Anyway, the topic has been coming up more and more lately. Comments by him like, "If we had a kid, I would take care of it." Or, "If we had a kid, we could do this or that or it would look like you or whatever." Not in a nagging way, more in a wishful thinking, reflective and pensive manner. And it makes me feel absolutely terrible.

I love my husband with all my heart and soul. My heart breaks when I think that someday we will both be gone, and there will not be anything left of US, like a child that is part him, part me. That is really the ONLY reason I can think of that I would have a kid. But is that a reason to have a child? And it's not like you can explain to a teenager that the reason you haven't been around for him/her the past 15 years is because "I didn't really want a kid, your dad did, so we struck a deal where he would raise and take care of you." (Not that I'm saying that's what would happen, but how do you know? People say, "Oh you'll feel differently when it's your own kid" but is that always true?)

I just wanted to hear some thoughts from people who might have gone through this or a similar struggle before. Are there any parents out there who actually regret having had children?? Or is there anyone out there who chose not to have children and have since regretted that decision? Feel free to create an anonymous username and post if you are not comfortable posting as yourself. I really would like to hear sincere opinions and comments.

My husband has repeatedly told me that he just wants to be with me, with or without children. He would prefer to have children with me, but if I don't want that, he just wants to be with me. But you can't imagine the guilt that I feel knowing that this is something he really wants. Again, though, guilt alone cannot be enough of a reason to have a kid. How many reasons do I actually need? What were YOUR reasons? And for those of you who never thought you wanted kids but eventually did change your mind, was it some magical moment that you just turned a 180?

I would love some advice or thoughts or stories or anything. I bring myself to tears every time I start thinking about this, and it's been on my mind a lot lately.

Sorry this is so long. Thanks for listening.

[Goin' Coastal]

Can I ask how old you both are? That might make a difference in a response.

[armel]

I'm of the thought that both parents should want the children. I never wanted children. Have never regretted it. I had relationships that were great but just couldn't go anywhere because they wanted children and I knew I did not.

I just don't think everybody is meant to be a parent and if you don't want children, it seems best to not have them. I really wouldn't bank on hoping that "oh, you will feel differently when it is your own." I think you very well might not. I sincerely believe I would not if it was me. I think I could very well end up resenting the child, resenting the husband and unhappy with that future. Everybody's different, so I really think only you can answer if you think that could be your situation too. And if you think it could, then you shouldn't have children.

If you know yourself, then be true to yourself. Your husband loves you and knew you didn't want children.

[Unknown]

I wasn't sure if it made any difference how long we've been married/together or how old we are, but in case it does, we are in our early/mid 30s and have been together more than ten years.

[ktg0930]

I don't have any advice for you, but wanted to say that I have some of the same questions. I will be 39 next month and my husband is somewhat older than I am. We've been married 5+ years and tried to conceive naturally shortly after we were married. We ended up doing fertility treatments (IUI and IVF) without success about 2 years. We discussed adoption but ending up putting everything on hold since we were moving to another state and didn't want to start the adoption process until we were settled.

But not to hijack your thread, I also wanted to thank you for starting this thread and I am interested, too, in the responses.

[Chefzhat]

I never wanted children until I married DH. Even then I was so sure, but he is such a great guy and I knew that he'd be a great dad. I wanted to give him that gift. He had two older kids and was fantastic with them, I wanted a child with him too.

Why didn't I want children? Because I didn't think I'd be a good mom. I didn't cook, clean, or nurture.

Years later I'm a SAHM doing all kinds of cooking, cleaning and nurturing. And much to everyone's surprise I was/am good at it.

[TKay]

I'm sort of in the same camp as Armel--at least from an advice standpoint. I do have kids and always knew I wanted them. Dh was the same way. We are happy we have kids and are very grateful for them. However, I can't imagine someone who does not want kids being happy going through some of the sacrifices and difficulties that child-rearing naturally brings. It is a huge change in your life. If you embrace that change and are willing to make it, it's fantastic. But if you like your life-without-children, it would be difficult to make the transition without a lot of resentment.
Listen, I was one of those people who couldn't wait to have kids. Unfortunately, I had to wait. The right relationship took a long time to come along and then getting pregnant wasn't easy. And I STILL have moments when I think, gosh, you know what we could be doing right now if we didn't have kids? I don't regret having children and for me, personally, it's been worth every moment. But I gotta believe that in your heart of hearts, if you know you don't want kids, you really shouldn't have them. I can't imagine you NOT resenting them for taking away your free time.
I'll be interested to see what other people have to say. FWIW, I am friends with a couple who agreed to not have children before marrying. He was adamant that he did not want to be a father. After a few years of married life, they decided they MIGHT consider it. Their first is now two years old. I ran into them at a birthday party the other day and was astonished to find out they are now pg with their second--and thrilled to pieces about it. So go figure.
Good luck with your decision.

[hohum]

You say you are self centered. Have you tried working on that?

I mean to know you are self centered and not try and change seems weird to me.
It is true though that women who are pretty selfish can change overnight once they become a mom.

I am not great with other people's kids but own are the best thing that ever happened to me.
Having said that you can't have a child for the sake of your husband. If something happened to him you would be left to raise the child.

[Laura]

I have two kids, but have been a single mom since my children were very, very young. I will say that for me, I always knew I wanted children, I love my kids and they are great kids. Yes, we have some issues, but they get along great and are good kids. I don't have issues with drinking, drugs, disrespect, sex etc. That said, while it is the greatest thing I have ever done, it also easily the hardest. Maybe it is because essentially I have done it on my own, but I think two parent families would agree.

And while I appreciate your DH saying if you had a child he would raise it, that is simply not the case. Yes, he may take on the primary responsibility of taking care of the child, but it will be your child together and unless you are in a situation similar to mine, both of you will be raising the child, imparting values, disciplining etc.

I don't want to discourage you, but you are asking for opinions. I will say this, the greatest love I have ever felt is toward my kids. It is not that I didn't love my husband at the time, and I am deeply in love with my SO of a number of years, but it is definitely different.

I wish you the best in this situation. I am sure this is very difficult for you and your husband.

[jmarie]

I didn't want children. I think my greatest thing was fear. I thought my husband's enthusiasm would be enough. So we had two, a boy and a girl. As it turned out my husband's enthusiasm waned...and I was primary caretake to the point that a lot of the times I felt like a single mom. His intentions were good....

Having said that, yes there were difficult times...but, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything in the world. However, this is me. You are the only person who can answer this question for yourself.

Are you around children much? Could you arrange to be and see how you bond with the little tykes.

Best wishes that you find the answer that is right for both you and your DH.

[Jessica]

I went through something similar in my early 30s. I was never one of those women who always wanted kids and while my DH wanted children, he would not have left me if I had said no.

What changed my mind? I stopped looking at now and looked at 15 years down the road? Did I want children in my future? I realized that I did, and that I probably should get cracking. It wasn't easy; we lost two pregnancies and now have a DS and a baby on the way.

Raising a munchkin is hard work, even a munchkin who is very much loved and wanted, in a two-parent home with enough food, clothing, etc. You need to be totally committed to it.

I don't regret it. I don't think I ever will.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

[ggs830]

Disclaimer: My children are quite young (19months and 4months), so my experience is still limited, and definitely colored by the young ages of my children.

That said:

Being a parent is extremely challenging, possibly the most challenging task I have ever faced. Not only is it a challenge for me personally, it is a challenge to my marriage, to my relationship with extended family, and to my friendships. The responsibility and commitment that goes along with being a parent is, at times, overwhelming. There have been several times in the year and a half since I had my first child that I have seriously questioned my decision to have children--- and I wanted kids with all my heart! To be totally honest, my kids are the source of my ultimate joy, but they are also the source of my ultimate angst, and they are still so young! (I am NOT looking forward to the teens ;) ).

I don't say these things to scare you, or anyone else, who is considering having children. Rather, I think they are things that one should know before making the decision to have kids. Your life will be a rollercoaster, full of happiness and misery, and if you aren't sure about having kids, or are considering having them out of guilt, I would worry how you would react to your decision when things get tough. Would you resent your husband for "guilting" you into having children? Or your kids themselves? Scary thoughts, in my mind, that can lead down a dark path.

As to some of your other questions: Why did I want kids? I don't know if I can put it into words, really. It felt right, I guess. It seemed to me to be the natural progression of my life. There were other factors: wanting to pass along a part of myself, and a part of my DH, to a new person; wanting to experience motherhood; wanting to create a new family with DH.

Bottom line, to me, is that if you aren't sure, having children could be a terrible mistake.

(((Hugs))) I'm sorry you are going through this. It's a tough situation, and I hope you and DH can work it out.

[ljt2r]

I am going to share my story--but since the turnaround was DH's and not mine it will be hard for me to address what he was thinking. The story starts before I met him, because I had health issues (active epilepsy) that had led me to decide that I would not be carrying a child naturally. Anyway, 6 months or so into my relationship with DH, he told me he did not want kids--never had, never would. I was devastated, but decided it was silly to worry about it when who knows what the future would hold. I also decided that given my circumstances, maybe it was a sign that I wasn't meant to have kids. I adjusted to it and although I thought about it occasionally I was mostly happy (I say mostly bc it was hard when my friends all had babies, I won't lie).

So anyway fast forward a few years, we were engaged (we had a looong engagement), I had had brain surgery and my epilepsy became inactive. Anyway (and I will never forget this) we were sitting in the car in a mall parking lot :rolleyes: and DH suddenly announces (and this reminded me of your OP, your feelings about children being here after you are gone) that life seems kind of pointless all of a sudden, he achieved his PhD, his tenure track job, and there should be more than that and maybe he wants kids. !!! I informed him very deliberately and carefully that he was not to mess around with me about that... basically he changed his mind in the space of weeks. It made me very insecure for a very long time, literally until after DD#1 was born, bc I worried constantly that I had pushed him into it....

The long and the short of my post (which really may just be a post of empathy--not sure there is any actual advice buried in here) is that I have been in your DH's shoes--and if he says he loves you enough to not have kids, he probably does and it would be better to just accept it. However, if you think you might be changing your mind, I would say 2 things--don't mess around with it, hemming and hawing, that wouldn't be fair to him (I don't know that you are) AND unless you have some scary abuse issues or something I would not let fear of lack of maternal-ness stop you. That had to come to my DH FOR SURE and he is a GREAT dad. Frankly I think it has to come to a lot of moms and dads who DO know they want kids. One of my best friends just had a baby, always knew she wanted a baby, and was very up front about not having any idea what to do with kids. But she'll learn. :p My point here is not convince you to want kids, but rather to say that I don't think anyone should be held back by worrying about superficial ideas of what it means to be a mom or dad.

Sincerely, a VERY impatient and fairly self-centered mom who is for some reason patient with her own kids. :p

[leebee]

For years, I was certain I did NOT want to be married. I woke up one day certain that I did, and it has been wonderful. Same with kids. I SWORE I would never want them, but I have two and they are the delight of my life. But, in both cases, I was keenly aware of a reversal. I still had doubts--"I'll make a lousy wife," or "I can't raise a CHILD!" sorts of things. I still have doubts daily! I love my life, am happy beyond reason, but I still wonder "what if?" now & then. I think that's natural, and I give myself permission to ponder without guilt when I need to. In your case (the OP), I think you need to look closely at yourself. Are you certain you don't want kids, to the point that you could even consider a life with little interaction with them? Or are you afraid to give yourself permission to want kids, even just a little? It's something only you can answer. My cousin was the former, and she and her husband have chosen to live without children. They are very happy with their decision, and have a very successful marriage. I don't think it's a selfish or self-centered decision, they understood that they (both of them, together in a partnership) would be lousy parents. I think that takes guts to admit these days. People can be very judgemental about the decision. In my case, I needed to reconcile myself with my newfound desire for children. It was hard to suddenly reverse myself and admit to my husband that I did want to have a child, but that's what I did. Quite frankly, he was shocked. I think that if you truly don't want children, you owe it to you and your husband to have a real heart to heart and explain that he's really being unfair to feelings you have expressed and the two of you have discussed. Allow him to present his arguments and really listen. But in the end, if you still feel the way you do now, then come to an understanding about it. It's unfair of him to continue to harp on it. And it will erode your relationship if you don't sort it out. This isn't a minor issue, like toilet seat up or down. This is a dealbreaker, and you need to figure out where you both are. If you sort of feel conflicted, then give it some time. But know this--even when I was in the delivery room, I wasn't sure I'd made the right decision. For many of us, it is a hard thing, the decision to have children, and that difficulty never really left me. I have two bright, happy, beautiful, wonderful kids, and I sometimes wake up wondering if I can do it. When I decided not to have a third, I "knew" it was the right decision. I still feel like crying sometimes that I won't have another, but at the same time I still feel like it was the right thing to do. Good luck to you. I hope you find the right path for you and your husband.

[Paula H]

I agree with what armel had to say. I think that the chance of ending up resenting your husband and child is too great - I know that's what happened with my parents, and it's not a lot of fun to grow up with that.

I've never wanted children, and have been with some great guys who have wanted kids, and so we've both known that it was never going to work long-term. I did have concerns when I started seeing Dr Love that maybe he did want kids, deep down and underneath it all, as he'd said that he didn't but would have them if he was with someone who wanted children. But we sorted that out eventually, and are happily a child-free zone!

Personally, I think I'd find it really hard to have the "oh, if we had a child we could do this or that" stuff going on all the time. I'd have to sit down with him and say how much it was bugging me, and possibly even go to a professional to talk about the various issues. But that's just me.

Good luck!

[Unknown]

I do appreciate everyone's comments and stories so far, and I look forward to more of them. I'll try to address some of them in more detail later, but for now, I just wanted to respond to this comment:

You say you are self centered. Have you tried working on that?

I mean to know you are self centered and not try and change seems weird to me.


By "self-centered," I mean things like valuing my ME time. I love to sleep. I love naps. I love laying around on the weekends and doing nothing but the things I want to do -- watching movies, going to the gym, cooking, etc. I am also a very loving and generous person. I am loyal to my friends and family and would do anything for them. If someone needs or asks for help, I am always happy to do whatever I can to assist. So I am not self-centered in the way you might think (or maybe that is what you thought, and I am self-centered and unwilling to change), but I just am not sure I can or want to make the sacrifices that I know are required when you become a parent without becoming resentful.

[badunnin]

I do appreciate everyone's comments and stories so far, and I look forward to more of them. I'll try to address some of them in more detail later, but for now, I just wanted to respond to this comment:



By "self-centered," I mean things like valuing my ME time. I love to sleep. I love naps. I love laying around on the weekends and doing nothing but the things I want to do -- watching movies, going to the gym, cooking, etc. I am also a very loving and generous person. I am loyal to my friends and family and would do anything for them. If someone needs or asks for help, I am always happy to do whatever I can to assist. So I am not self-centered in the way you might think (or maybe that is what you thought, and I am self-centered and unwilling to change), but I just am not sure I can or want to make the sacrifices that I know are required when you become a parent without becoming resentful.

A friend of mine once said to me that she believes that HAVING kids is one of the most self-centred things, in her opinion, as you are replicating yourself.

And I do think that there is a lot to be said for the flexibility that comes with not having kids. When a friend needs help NOW, s/he can't always turn to someone with 2 kids - it's much easier to ask a friend who doesn't have kids.

That said... I wouldn't want to see you (or anyone!) become resentful of husband, child or both because they felt pressured into a situation that they really didn't want to be in in the first place. Being resentful for going on vacation to a destination you didn't choose (or some other situation where things don't end up as you'd imagined) is one thing, but a child? I don't know - I've always thought it's a big risk to take.

And who is this ho-hum?

[Peweh]

My DH and I do not plan on having kids but I know he would change his mind in a second if I were interested in having them. I don't know how I would handle it if HE changed his mind and started doing what your DH is doing. I know that the constant comments about how he could take care of them, what they would look like etc. would needle me to the point of marriage disaster so I would try to have a serious discussion about stopping the comment trend before that happened. It strikes me as some sort of passive-aggressive campaign to change your mind (there is probably a better term for it but you get the idea.)

I wish you luck.

[LA98]

I think I'm going to end up just echoing what others have already said. I also spent many years with very serious doubts about ever getting married or having kids. I didn't have especially good role models for either growing up and I felt for a long time that because of that I wouldn't be cut out for it myself. I also considered myself sort of "lazy", in that I'd choose relaxing or watching TV over just about anything. I liked my sleep too. :) So some years go by with the gradual realization that I'd do just fine as a wife, I meet the right guy, we get married, spend a few years on our own when I realize I'm finally ready for kids: I just felt it and knew it, I could picture a couple of kids with DH and I as a family, I wanted to have one sitting on my lap reading a picture book, watch them open presents on Christmas, go apple picking in the fall, do crafts at the kitchen table, and so on....

And while I'd been told by everyone that kids are a huge amount of work (and it's so flippin' true!), it's not something you can truly appreciate until you do it. I am constantly amazed at just how labor intensive this job is! I was willing to make the necessary sacrifices because I knew the payoff (all those things mentioned above among many others) would be worth it. I've been exhausted beyond words for several years now (trying to juggle one kid plus full-time and part-time work, the house, the husband, then another kid) but it was absolutely the right choice for me. As the saying goes, I figure I'll get plenty of sleep when I'm dead. ;) And it's not just the physical hard work, it's mentally hard too. You and your needs WILL come after your child's (that is, if you're doing it right) for quite some time. That takes some adjusting to, even when it's something you really want.

Personally, I don't think that bringing a child into the world just to have something of yourself to leave behind is a good reason to do it. Your post sounds to me as if you know in your heart what you want (or don't want, actually) and that it's guilt over possibly disappointing your DH that's causing you to even consider it. I really feel for you that you're struggling with such a difficult issue.... I hope you find a decision that gives you both peace.

[Unknown]

A couple more comments:

No, we don't really have kids in our life that we interact with regularly. None of our close friends have children. We do have lots of nieces and nephews, but none that live near us, so we don't spend a lot of one-on-one time with them. When we do, I'm not all that comfortable with them. I find myself more comfortable with the older ones -- the teens -- because I can relate better to them and can talk to them about more things. I really don't know what to do with a 6 year old or how to talk to one. And I definitely don't know what to do with a baby. I don't even think I've ever held one before. :o

As for the comments, I didn't mean to make it sound like he is constantly saying stuff to me, and he truly is not the passive-aggressive type at all. We both make the comments, and it's something we've always done. For example, finding out that our niece got a cell phone on her 11th birthday and commenting later, in private to each other, that we would never buy our kid a cell phone at age 11. Or going to a restaurant and observing a kid throwing a tantrum and commenting, "If that were my kid, I would have taken him into the parking lot by now." Or something like that. They're really not all that frequent, and they're generally not specific to us. Maybe I am just more sensitive to them now that I know he really does want kids (it has not been that long since he made this revelation to me).

One of Laura's comments did strike a nerve with me, and it goes to the self-centeredness I mentioned before. I love my husband, and I love that he loves me more than anything in the world. I want to be the most important thing in his life, just as he is the most important thing in my life. I know that would change if we had children, as it should. I'm just not sure I could accept that. Not sure if that makes any sense.

Thanks again for listening and for sharing.

[JenniferJJ]

Okay, obviously not first hand here, but a little close. My aunt and uncle compromised - she didn't want kids and he did. I am not super close to them (they live in Denver so I don't see them that much), but I do know a little. I guess I should say that I don't know if my aunt ever said that she didn't want kids, but she did say to my mom that she wanted her DH to have a child. One thing that helps is that he is the primary caretaker and she is the breadwinner, so she does not have to do as much full time nuturing as if the situation were reversed. He used to work at home (part time, I think) and now he is a stay-at-home dad.

I do think one is a doable compromise. Of course your life changes, but your house is still much more adult like than if you had more than one. My aunt and uncle still go on vacations like they used to and do many other activities. With one, (as opposed to more than one), you can be flexible and the child can learn to adapt. And of course, it's just easier. With one you have 2:1 coverage and you and your DH can each have your alone time while the other is spending time with/taking care of the child. You have more conversations with the child verses watching them to of them converse with each other. Since my aunt and uncle only had one child, their daughter obviously got a lot more adult attention and she has a lot more maturity in her conversations, so I think that adds something to someone who is not a "child" person. Also, with only one, they had the money to still go on vacations with just the two of them or all three. Also, you don't have to deal with the fighting.

They had been married about the same amount of time as you and your DH (8 years for them), so they had their marriage and routines set. I think that makes a difference, too.

Just my example of a situation where a "one" compromise worked.

[Debralynn]

Maybe it would be best to become foster parents for a child, or a big brother or big sister so you can mentor a child. There are already Sooooo many unwanted children in this world - don't have a child to please ONE of you, have a child because you BOTH WANT a child. It is the biggest decision you will ever make, you will be taking care of this child for years to come, you better be ready to give everything you got.
I'm a married mother of 2 teens, (17 & 18) and have never been happier in my life!
Sure, it's been hard, financially and emotionally exhausting, wonderful, thrilling and I would not change one second of my life and our decision to have children.
Good luck to both of you. Debralynn :)

[slknight]

When we do, I'm not all that comfortable with them. I find myself more comfortable with the older ones -- the teens -- because I can relate better to them and can talk to them about more things. I really don't know what to do with a 6 year old or how to talk to one. And I definitely don't know what to do with a baby. I don't even think I've ever held one before. :o

I've got lots of thoughts on this subject, but am on my way to bed so I will probably add more to this tomorrow. I did want to say quickly though that I have a child and I *still* feel this way - with other kids. I went to a meeting tonight at DS's preschool, and one of the other moms had her newborn with her. The director was holding the baby and turned to me and said "Doesn't this make you want to have another?" Uh, no. It doesn't. I don't relate well to other people's kids whether they are babies or older ones. I have a hard time knowing what to say to my nieces and nephews too. But I can totally relate to my own child.

As for wanting and needing your own time, that's a valid concern but at least you know this ahead of time. I have the same problem. I need (and get) my own time daily. If I didn't have it, I'd be insane. I'm fascinated by the Myers-Briggs and there's a book about your parenting "type." I'm an ISTJ and it actually said that to be the best mother I could be, I need an hour to myself each day. :D I thought it was pretty funny because it's really true.

Do I regret having my son? Not at all (and for years we considered being permanently childless by choice). Do I dislike groups of kids? Yes. Do I need my own time every day? Yes. Does this make me a bad parent? No.

I may get absolutely flamed for this, but you don't have to be sucked into a stereotype to have kids. Having kids is a deeply personal choice and every family is different. Ugh, I wrote more but it just wasn't coming out well tonight so I'm going to give up for now. Maybe the words will come to me in the morning. I suspect I know who you are. If you are, e-mail me and I may be able to explain myself better. ;)

[Robyncz]

For what it's worth, I don't think you have to "just love kids" to be a good parent, if that makes sense. I'm not one of those women who has to hold every baby I see. In fact, in most cases, I'm just not all that interested in babies at all. And many, many children annoy the crud out of me. I just flat out don't like one of my nephews, and as much as I've tried, I don't think that's going to change.

That being said, I love my girls to death and I have no regrets about having them. I was worried before I became pregnant and during my pregnancy that I might not like my kids or that I might not be able to relate to them, but that has not been the case at all. I think when you have them, you adapt, and they adapt, and (in a healthy and dynamic home) you sort of end up with a "system" that works for you.

That's not to say that I think you *have* to have kids. I can totally understand your trepidation. And I don't think it's the kind of decision you can captitulate on just to make someone else happy. But, if your main fear is that you just aren't a "kid person," I wanted to say I know plenty of great parents who aren't. But somehow they end up being a "their kid person" and it all works out.

If you are who I think you are, I'm pretty sure both you and DH would adapt easily and well to parenthood. But the most important thing as that you both decide it's what you want.

[ljt2r]

One of Laura's comments did strike a nerve with me, and it goes to the self-centeredness I mentioned before. I love my husband, and I love that he loves me more than anything in the world. I want to be the most important thing in his life, just as he is the most important thing in my life. I know that would change if we had children, as it should. I'm just not sure I could accept that. Not sure if that makes any sense.

I don't know if I can express my response to this very well over email, so if I sound negative or anything, please just chalk it up to my lack of eloquence, because I am not trying to be critical. It is interesting that Laura (I am a Laura too, boy that confused me for a bit, but anyway the post to which you are referring) automatically said that the love for her children is more important. I personally do not agree with that for me. I would just say that it is different--I have a responsibility to my children, to keep them well (as possible) and to love them unconditionally. I don't have that same responsibility to my husband, which automatically makes it different. On the other hand, I look to him for support and nurturing for me in a way that would just be plain wrong to look to your kids for. But because we both love our kids, because we made them together and are responsible for them together, they are (and I know this will sound wrong) more like a shared, devastatingly important hobby. I know the word hobby will astound or offend some people, and I don't mean to compare kids to a hobby, I just mean that let's say you both love sailing--you would never worry about how much he loves sailing because you love it together...am I making any sense? Whereas some people are jealous over how much time an SO spends with hobbies they don't share. When your child is ill, you don't worry about him worrying more about the child than you because you are frantic also.... Your husband is with you despite your not wanting kids--he will not love you any less if you do have kids.

I don't mean to sound critical, you are 100% entitled to your feelings. It is more that I am sad that these are your worries about parenthood. If you just don't want kids, fine. I married a man I thought did not want kids so I would never judge. But the worries I hear from you seem more about worrying about what it means to be a mom than actually not wanting kids. And I personally have found parenthood to be too rewarding to not pipe up and say that what it means to be a mom is pretty much what I said before--to keep them well-nurtured in the physical sense and well-loved. The rest is just personal style and window dressing.

OK I'll shut up now. :o

Laura

[Robyncz]

Hehe. Slknight and I were posting much the same sentiments at the same time. Great minds. . .

[Laura]

One of Laura's comments did strike a nerve with me, and it goes to the self-centeredness I mentioned before. I love my husband, and I love that he loves me more than anything in the world. I want to be the most important thing in his life, just as he is the most important thing in my life. I know that would change if we had children, as it should. I'm just not sure I could accept that. Not sure if that makes any sense.



Unknown, I should say that the comment I made may be unique to me, but I also want to explain it. When you have a child, it is your job not only to love, but to protect, teach, discipline, etc. I have screwed up so many times I can't even count (to this day DD can remember shortly after my ex left when I got so angry that I threw a hairbrush at the wall and broke the brush -- she was 3 :rolleyes: ). But those responsibilities for me, just made me want to love and protect my kids with a fierceness that I had never felt. Does that make any sense? Probably not.

I do envy your marriage. Perhaps, my love was a little misplaced because my marriage failed so soon after my DS was born. Anyways, I am rambling now so I will stop. I do wish you the best. You can pm me too. Laura

[Peweh]

Slknight, I thought you spoke very eloquently and if I did end up having a child (because life happens while you're making other plans, right? :eek: ) you probably described in yourself what I would be like to a T.

Unknown, I misinterpreted the whole comment thing, I see what you are saying, please excuse my passive-aggressive comment. It is not unusual for my DH and I to comment on other children's behavior etc "if they were ours we would/would not let them..." I think you should talk to him though about the guilt this instills in you (I think you said that in your original post). There is no sense internalizing it and letting it eat you away.

[Laura]

It is interesting that Laura (I am a Laura too, boy that confused me for a bit, but anyway the post to which you are referring) automatically said that the love for her children is more important.

Just so I am clear, I never "automatically said that the love for my children was more important," and if that is what you took from it, it is not what I meant. I said it was the greatest love I had felt. I hope I explained myself better in my later post, but I wanted to clarify and correct the other Laura's statement.

Sorry Unknown, we are getting a little off base here.

[ljt2r]

Hehe. Slknight and I were posting much the same sentiments at the same time. Great minds. . .

You guys said quite well a lot that I have been thinking. I did discover some weird late life desire to hold babies :eek: :eek: but I still can't abide other people's toddlers--even though mine is perfect of course. ;) DH seriously freaked out that we should not have kids (after we decided to) based on how bent out of shape I got at my friend's kid who turned off my Notre Dame Michigan football game in the middle of a play. :o He was 2. :o He drove me crazy. :o So no you do not have to love children of all ages to love your own kids.

Laura

[ljt2r]

Just so I am clear, I never "automatically said that the love for my children was more important," and if that is what you took from it, it is not what I meant. I said it was the greatest love I had felt. I hope I explained myself better in my later post, but I wanted to clarify and correct the other Laura's statement.

Sorry Unknown, we are getting a little off base here.

I was extrapolating more based on what Unknown seemed to get out of it. Sorry, I should have made that more clear... I did say it was late and I wasn't feeling very clear. :o Didn't mean to put words in your mouth....

Laura

[Laura]

I was extrapolating more based on what Unknown seemed to get out of it. Sorry, I should have made that more clear... I did say it was late and I wasn't feeling very clear. :o Didn't mean to put words in your mouth....

Laura

No worries. Got it. :)

[Unknown]

I think you should talk to him though about the guilt this instills in you (I think you said that in your original post). There is no sense internalizing it and letting it eat you away.

He knows. I've talked to him about it. He regrets that he ever said anything to me, he never thought it would cause me this much grief and guilt, and he wishes he could unring the bell but he can't.

[wallycat]

Some excellent comments already made so I will just post my personal experience...not that it will probably help :o

I've never wanted kids...sure a fleeting thought, but the reality of bringing a child into this world and the long term care/raising....well, whether it is fear or smart enough to realize how overwhelming it is, I've never wanted them.

I dated several guys who told me they wanted kids...it got to where after the first date, I'd ask..."you don't want kids, do you??" because it was painful to fall for someone only to find out the relationship (for me) was doomed as I knew I wouldn't change my mind.

Your situation is particularly difficult because you've been together so long and love each other....and he knew you didn't want kids from the get-go...

I haven't read through all of this to know if counseling or other suggestions have been made. I also don't know YOUR particular reason for not wanting kids....so many aspects to that...but if adopting or fostering are an option, maybe that would help his needs out?
Also, what about being a big-brother or something like that where he can feel like he's contributing to raising young ones without your needing to alter your position.

Best to you both!

[ChristineVA]

I don't know if anything I can say or add to this discussion will help you with your decisions.

I never wanted nor did I ever "not want" children, if that makes sense?? I was married for 9 years and still couldn't make that decision to have children. I'm not wild about babies and really didn't see myself as the "maternal" type. I didn't gush and coo and I never really found myself attacted to babies when my friends have them. The whole thing really kind of put me off.

But, then, believe it or not, my birth control failed. And there I was, pregnant. So, I just kind of embraced it and figured, "oh well, it was meant to be." I now have two children due to another failed birth control (that is a whole 'nother story:rolleyes: ).

I won't go into gory details, but being a mother has been EXTREMELY hard on my. I do love my children and when they were born I did fall in love with them and certainly my maternal side *did* kick in. But, it has been SOOO hard. I've never been able to stay home with my children and being a working mom takes a lot out of me. I ended up having various other health issues and it has been hard because they do take up a super amount of your time.

Then there's all the schooling issues and all the things that really add stress. At least for me, raising children is very stressful, yet other people find it hugely rewarding.

I cannot say I regret having my children. I really love them, but I can also think I would have had a great life being childless too. I think that's just the kind of person I am.

[newtricks]

Unknown-

I've been thinking of you and your post since I read it last night. I certainly can't give you advice on whether or not to have children - although my gut reaction is if you don't want them don't have them. Even when you really really want them and always have they are challenging and difficult - the greatest joy of your life but..... Of course, I also know lots of poeple who didn't think they wanted kids who are head over heels with parenthood. So go figure.

But one thing I do know - it's a decision you make together. The grief right now is that you and your dh aren't on the same page anymore. And this is a huge issue to have conflict around. Have you considered counselling or talking to someone to help you guys come to a conclusion one way or the other? Hugs to you, I hope everything works out for you.

[mikesmom]

I agree with the others who've said that you certainly don't have to be good with kids to love your own child and be a good parent. I was never one to babysit or really like babies or kids. I'm not very comfortable with other people's children.

My husband and I were married 13 years when we decided to adopt a baby. I was scared to death in the beginning. What happened to my life? Oy. About a month after adopting him, I couldn't remember my life without him. It's amazing how that happens. I won't lie to you, it's a lot of work. It's a good tired. :)

He will be 21 in December and adopting him is the best and most important decision of my life.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[stefania4]

I grew up knowing I didn't want children and, at age 38, that hasn't changed. I don't even know that I have intellectual reasons, or that anyone else (kids or no kids) does, either.

IMHO, raising children properly is such hard, hard work and requires so much sacrifice that it should be something that you really want and that brings you great, unimaginable joy to balance it out. And having seen good friends knocked completelysenseless with wanting to have a baby, that desire is not something subtle that you wouldn't notice. :D I've seen a few families with at least one parent who, quite frankly, wasn't really devoted to the job/never wanted it, and that nearly always ends up badly. Don't ever think a child can't tell when someone isn't fully committed.

[Triathlon13]

To Unknown,

You have gotten a ton of responses here, and most of them sound great. I think truly only you can figure it out. I am glad you posted this though-as I NEVER wanted kids and really don't think I want them to this day, but I have convinced myself I will/should have them---I know it sounds odd, but I had a good friend (Male) who knew how much I didn't want kids and one day he sat down and said "I really think you should think about that" - he went on to say he never wanted them either, but now that he is in a 10 year relationship that he really would rather not be in and he is a bit too over the hill to have them (he is 44--I am 30) he knows it will never happen and regrets it hugely. He said he didn't regret not being married or the fact he doesn't like his job and isn't even doing anything he is passionate about-but he does regret not having kids and he thinks I would too-and that he thinks when I am ready I would be a great mom.

So that was the day that changed my mind. And believe me, everyone in my life tried to change my mind and said all kinds of things to get me to realize this-but his comment just flipped a switch for me. Now don't get me wrong-I really don't want them---I am the same type of self-centered as you (I am a triathlete and train a lot, I love to travel, I have a good job, I am on the go pretty much 100% of the time, but when I do have a free moment I want peace and quite and don't want to be bothered). I like my schedule the way it is.

Here is the other thing that changed my mind--I met the most wonderful person on earth. We talked and we both know we are each others "one" and then the kids topic came up--I told him my feelings about them and told him it does worry me-I am not maternal at all! And he was super good about it and said I needed to do what I needed to do (but he did want kids--in fact he would like 4, but will be happy with even 1--haha). But he and I have talked a lot over the last 4 or so months (ever since the topic started coming up more) and his line of thinking has really helped me realize it won't be so bad. First--we will be hiring someone to clean our house at least once a week so that on weekends we aren't stuck inside cleaning, we are out training or having fun with the kids. #2 we are going to find someone who is reliable and can work with out schedule to watch the kids (I figure if we have one, we minds well have 2) a few times a week-so he wants at least one night a week to just us, one night so we can do groceries and errands etc.. and sometimes during the day (I want to work part time at least so they will probably be more consistent during the day) and then every Sunday morning from 7-1 or 2 so that we can meet up with our cycling group or go out and train by ourselves. He also wants to dedicate Sat mornings to getting up early with the kids while I have the morning to myself-whether I sleep in (yeah right), go train or just go do something else.---he figures this will give him time to the kids all by himself and give me some time away. and he some other great ideas too.

This has allowed me to realize it isn't going to be like growing up at home where my mom did everything and there was arguing due to this. So now I just have to get over the fear of getting fat:^).....pretty big fear for me to get over......he hasn't quite been able to crack that one yet!!!

So that probably didn't help you at all, now that I think about it--but I do know you really can't have kids if you are not into it even a little. No matter how helpful or what not your hubby is you are still there and will take over some responsibility. My best friend doesn't want kids and to be honest I can't see her with kids ever-it is not in her makeup at all! I really think you need to really look inside-think about your future and decide if you can see some little monsters running around or not-if you can't-maybe it isn't for you.

Good Luck-I don't envy you-this is a rough decision.

[engineer]

Unknown - This is your decision but I am getting the feeling alot of folks on the board are telling you (mind you I've just skimmed the responses) that oh it will all change once you have one, or things will change when you are older. I consider that a very dangerous risk. What if it doesn't change?

I am childless by choice and at 43 I'm still happy with that decision. Mind you I put what limited nuturing instinct I do have into my critters. I know that I am not messing up another persons life and that makes me happy. DH and I had 'difficult' childhoods and I would not wish that on anyone. DH was an 'accident' that forced his parents to marry and I was a long desired dream of my folks so it's from very different backgrounds that we come from but still we had trouble.

Sometimes the most responsible thing to do is not follow the pack. Parenthood is a huge responsibility and not to be taken lightly. I read in an article on 'childless by choice' people that perhaps we would make the best parents because we realize just how big a responsibility it is to have children. In the end only you know what is best for YOU. And remember even if he was the primary caregiver, you would be the one going through pregnancy and birth.

Believe in yourself and trust you.

[badunnin]

Unknown - This is your decision but I am getting the feeling alot of folks on the board are telling you (mind you I've just skimmed the responses) that oh it will all change once you have one, or things will change when you are older. I consider that a very dangerous risk. What if it doesn't change?

I agree. I've always told people that tell me I will (or would, as there's really no way of saying whether I will or not) be a great mom, that I think I'll be a much better non-mom. :) Whether I'd be good at it is really a moot point - I don't think I'd enjoy it that much.

[PAMMELA]

I never wanted nor did I ever "not want" children, if that makes sense?? I was married for 9 years and still couldn't make that decision to have children. I'm not wild about babies and really didn't see myself as the "maternal" type. I didn't gush and coo and I never really found myself attacted to babies when my friends have them. The whole thing really kind of put me off.


This is me exactly! Well me and DH. I assumed I would always have children, I never said I didn't want them....so here I am, married 17 years later and STILL say well I haven't decided (although I'm pretty sure I have) if that makes sense. Plus we're getting OLD....41 and 44. We've been together almost 20 years and it's like, if I wanted a baby, we'd have one; if he wanted a baby, we'd have one.

But anyway, for me, I also had a BC snafu, oh about 7 years ago I guess (would have been 34) and took a home pregnancy test. Let me tell you, I was hyperventilating in the shower while waiting for the results...praying for a NO. That sorta told me something. But if we had been, we would have been great parents.

Which reminds me of a few other posts in this thread. I really despise when people say you're selfish because you don't want kids. Why is that selfish? I don't get it. And if you want them just to leave a piece of you behind, or have someone take care of you in your golden years, well that's just wrong and THAT is selfish!

Also, I know that i would be a great Mom and DH would be a great Dad. Still don't want em. Someone also said they knew someone who admitted they would be lousy parents so they made the right decision. You can know you would be terrific parents and still not want to have kids.

My sister had a baby and I love my nephew to pieces (he's 7 now). But I get to give him back. It's the best of both worlds. I took care of him in the evenings a few times a week from when he was born up until he was about 4. I loved him, I bonded with him...I would be out taking him for a walk in his jogger and imagine if a car came careening out of control at us, that I would throw myself in front of the car, or whatever, you know what I mean...and he wasn't even mine! Did that make me want one? Nope. Everyone said, oh your sister had a baby, doesn't that make you want one? Urggh. NO. Also, I do not feel the same way about other children, only my nephew.:)

We are happy with our decision, and again, it's probably a little late to be changing my mind anyway. I love my life and I also love my ME time (does that make me selfish?) and my DH and I are best friends...we love our life and we do not regret the decision. I agree that you BOTH need to feel the same way so that your relationship doesn't become resentful for either of you. And I also agree that you may not change your feelings when it's "your" baby. Deep down I think you know what you really want.

Anyway, that's just my story, I wish you the best of luck.

[PAMMELA]

Sometimes the most responsible thing to do is not follow the pack. Parenthood is a huge responsibility and not to be taken lightly. I read in an article on 'childless by choice' people that perhaps we would make the best parents because we realize just how big a responsibility it is to have children.

Yes!! Thank you.

[avariell]

Unknown - This is your decision but I am getting the feeling alot of folks on the board are telling you (mind you I've just skimmed the responses) that oh it will all change once you have one, or things will change when you are older. I consider that a very dangerous risk. What if it doesn't change?




i think most people who replied are just sharing their (very personal) experiences and not really trying to "sway" the OP... just figured i would mention it since i am impressed at how open many posters were with their personal experiences...

i can't add much to the conversation since i am pretty sure i want kids but haven't had to cross that bridge yet :) interesting thread though unknown... good luck with whatever you decide.

[slknight]

i think most people who replied are just sharing their (very personal) experiences and not really trying to "sway" the OP... just figured i would mention it since i am impressed at how open many posters were with their personal experiences...


Exactly. I'm not trying to sway her. I am not one of those people with kids who then tries to convince all her friends they should have kids too. I have a friend who is like that; she is constantly trying to convince me I should have another one. I was sharing my experience that you don't have to be someone who loves other people's children in order to love your own.


IMHO, raising children properly is such hard, hard work and requires so much sacrifice that it should be something that you really want and that brings you great, unimaginable joy to balance it out. And having seen good friends knocked completely senseless with wanting to have a baby, that desire is not something subtle that you wouldn't notice. I've seen a few families with at least one parent who, quite frankly, wasn't really devoted to the job/never wanted it, and that nearly always ends up badly. Don't ever think a child can't tell when someone isn't fully committed.

While I agree that a child can tell when someone isn't committed and you need to be fully devoted to the job, I take some offense to these comments. Not everyone becomes knocked senseless trying to have a child. :rolleyes: We were in the "whatever happens, happens" camp in terms of having children. If it didn't work out, so be it. It *did* work out and we're totally devoted to our child. Just because a person doesn't obsess and go crazy about having one doesn't mean they won't be a good parent.

[Debralynn]

Like I said before, there are alot of unwanted and unloved children..............some of them live in a house with two parents!!! It's a sad but true fact. I agree that you should both agree on wanting a child before bringing a baby into this world. Debralynn

[tamawrite]

I don't have much advice, but I just wanted to say you're not alone. You sound exactly like me, except that my husband is, fortunately, in full agreement. FWIW, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with not wanting to have kids. The "legacy" issue is the only one that bothers me, as it does you, but I have concluded that there are other ways to leave a legacy -- through friends, other family, my writing, etc. Hugs to you. :)

[Robyncz]

Unknown - This is your decision but I am getting the feeling alot of folks on the board are telling you (mind you I've just skimmed the responses) that oh it will all change once you have one, or things will change when you are older. I consider that a very dangerous risk. What if it doesn't change?

That's interesting, because I didn't get that feeling at all. I think most if not all of the posts have walked a very careful line of saying "this was my experience, but you have to make the right choice for you."

Just in case my original post could be misinterpreted, I am NOT saying the OP should have kids because it worked out for me. I was adressing the point that she isn't much of a baby or little kid person. My only point was that lots of good parents aren't comfortable around other people's babies and little kids--but they are great with their own.

End of point. No dangerous risk here.

[engineer]

Just to clarify...

I know that you aren't telling her to have kids. Most folks on this board are great in that they almost always say, "From my experience..." or "This is only my personal belief..." That is why I love it here is that people aren't in your face forcing something on you.

All I am saying is that you all are kind of overwhelming OP with the opinion that for you it was the best decision you made (just my interpretation but I could be tainted because of 20+ years of hearing how wonderful children are and how everyone should want 3, at least). I just wanted to give her another view.

I truely am happy for each and every one of you who have made the choice to breed. Without you the species would die off, so for that I am grateful. I am also very happy that you appear to be doing a good job are happy with your choice and aren't pressuring others to follow your example.

So is there a reason I can't have an alternative POV?

[slknight]

All I am saying is that you all are kind of overwhelming OP with the opinion that for you it was the best decision you made (just my interpretation but I could be tainted because of 20+ years of hearing how wonderful children are and how everyone should want 3, at least). I just wanted to give her another view.

I truely am happy for each and every one of you who have made the choice to breed.

I try hard not to get sucked into debates on this board. I've been here for 7 years and rarely argue with anyone, but UGH.:eek: :rolleyes: Let's stereotype everyone who has kids as being pushy (I have NEVER told anyone they should have kids - see my previous post) and "breeders" (sorry, I hate that word).

[engineer]

I try hard not to get sucked into debates on this board. I've been here for 7 years and rarely argue with anyone, but UGH.:eek: :rolleyes: Let's stereotype everyone who has kids as being pushy (I have NEVER told anyone they should have kids - see my previous post) and "breeders" (sorry, I hate that word).

Note the use of the word 'YOU' - and I said that that's why I love the board is that people aren't pushy. Sorry you are only seeing the part of the post that upsets you.

As for use of the word 'breeder' ... well that's what you are. You have bred. It may not be a word you like but it is not incorrect. From the dictionary...

breeder

Main Entry: breed·er
Pronunciation: \ˈbrē-dər\
Function: noun
Date: 1531
: one that breeds:

[slknight]

As for use of the word 'breeder' ... well that's what you are. You have bred. It may not be a word you like but it is not incorrect. From the dictionary...



Sorry, but I believe that it has taken on negative connotations in recent years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_(slang)

I'm done with this argument. I think it's too far from the original poster's request for opinions.

[Jessica]

Just to clarify...

I know that you aren't telling her to have kids. Most folks on this board are great in that they almost always say, "From my experience..." or "This is only my personal belief..." That is why I love it here is that people aren't in your face forcing something on you.

All I am saying is that you all are kind of overwhelming OP with the opinion that for you it was the best decision you made (just my interpretation but I could be tainted because of 20+ years of hearing how wonderful children are and how everyone should want 3, at least). I just wanted to give her another view.

I truely am happy for each and every one of you who have made the choice to breed. Without you the species would die off, so for that I am grateful. I am also very happy that you appear to be doing a good job are happy with your choice and aren't pressuring others to follow your example.

So is there a reason I can't have an alternative POV?

Unknown posted here asking for people's opinions. I don't think a bunch of honest, straightforward perspectives will overwhelm her and I resent the term "breeder."

[syzygy]

Just to clarify...

I truely am happy for each and every one of you who have made the choice to breed. Without you the species would die off, so for that I am grateful. <snip>
So is there a reason I can't have an alternative POV?

Well, I've stayed out of this so far because I think my own POV has been said much more eloquently by many other posters here. HOWEVER, your statement really rankled me, and even though you are more than entitled to your POV, I can't let this go without addressing it.

Perhaps because you choose put your nurturing energies into your critters, you see procreation as merely breeding. I, however, did not merely breed :eek: , I chose to have children and raise a family. IMHO, breeding means conceiving and bearing offspring. It says nothing about living with and raising those offspring and being responsible for them. There is a world of difference between the two, and if you can't understand that then I am really glad that you are choosing to remain childless.

[In the Shadows]

I haven't read through all of this to know if counseling or other suggestions have been made. I also don't know YOUR particular reason for not wanting kids....so many aspects to that...but if adopting or fostering are an option, maybe that would help his needs out?
Also, what about being a big-brother or something like that where he can feel like he's contributing to raising young ones without your needing to alter your position.
I think Wallycat made some excellent points. I think her suggestions for counselling and maybe seeing if your husband would be interested in being a big-brother are great. The counselling would give you both a chance to explore your reasons for why you do or don't want children.

My story is a lot different than yours, but I'll share a snippet in hopes that it'll help in some way. I suffer from infertility and have tried for more than 20 years to get pregnant. It's not going to happen, and adoption isn't an option for us. That said, the pain of not being able to have a child when you want one so much is unbearable. My husband and I love each other very much and have a good life, but there is a deep sorrow inside caused by the infertility.

My point really is that the issue also needs to be considered from your husband's perspective. Yes, he said he didn't want children and he would love you no matter what happens (and I'm sure he will), but the potential "empty" spot inside him really needs to be addressed. The sadness is not something you expect once you've made the decision that you're going to have a great life without kids. Certainly we went through an extremely sad period, but we've focused on the future and are happy with our lives. It's just unsettling how sad feelings still pop up after all these years.

I'm not advocating that you have children. That's entirely up to you both. But I thinking counselling would be of use in sorting out the underlying reasons for how you both feel.

Wish I had more to offer. I wish you both the best.

[boisewinesnob]

Unknown posted here asking for people's opinions. I don't think a bunch of honest, straightforward perspectives will overwhelm her and I resent the term "breeder."

Agree. And I assume since she thinks the label "breeder" is so non-offensive, she must not mind if people label her a "non-breeder" or "anti-breeder"

:rolleyes: :mad:

[tbb113]

If you really don't want a child...you shouldn't have one. I occasionally listen to Dr. Laura and I agree with her when she says that BOTH partners need to want the child. If one doesn't the NO wins, since ALL children should be wanted by both parents.

[SusanMac]

Since we need to get back on track....

I wanted to hit one one thing OP said about her DH. DH & I have both agreed to be child-free. When we were deciding this, I used to visualize my life w/kids. Every once in a while I see a family and think that looks really sweet or special. Or around certain times of year think about how fun it would be to do this or that w/kids. Sounds like your DH does this a bit, as well.

When I thought about it really hard, tho, I realized that I was just wanting those specific moments. That feeling at that point in time. I still did not want the whole 100% parenting for life 24 x 7 package. And coming to grips w/that actually helped me feel better about my decision to be child-free. Then, whenever those feelings came up, I realized it's just a fleeting moment. The reasons I didn't want kids were still stronger & more important than the series of little moments.

And, btw, I really enjoy kids. So, I decided to do volunteer work w/kids. For many years now, I've tutored 2nd-graders. It's really fulfilling & wonderful knowing I've made an impact & helped shaped these kids lives. And, spending time w/school children often reinforces my decision to just 'borrow' them from time to time instead of raise them :-)

[engineer]

Agree. And I assume since she thinks the label "breeder" is so non-offensive, she must not mind if people label her a "non-breeder" or "anti-breeder"

:rolleyes: :mad:

Not at all - I am a non-breeder/anti-breeder or what ever other name you want to put with it.:D

[hlao23]

Everyone said, oh your sister had a baby, doesn't that make you want one? Urggh. NO.

:D My sister had babies and it did make me want one...until I spent some time babysitting. I agree that being able to give them back is a wonderful thing.

I've never wanted kids...my sister has always wanted them...having kids has been so hard on her though. Tougher and more time-consuming than she had anticipated I guess.

[scout1222]

Unknown, I think you and I are a lot alike. What you've described about yourself, how you like to spend your time, and how you feel about kids and being around them sounds exactly like what I would say.

I have been extremely upfront and adamant with my boyfriend about my lack of desire to have children. There is absolutely NO WAY he doesn't know where I stand. Having said that, it would really disturb me to find out a few years down the road that he was either holding out on me or had changed his mind about wanting kids. So I don't envy you in this position.

I think the only thing you and I "disagree" on is the legacy thing. I have never, ever understood that. I have never worried about that all.

I think someone further upthread mentioned talking to a professional about this, and I totally agree. You don't want to resent each other for whatever choice you end up making.

(also, now I'm dying to know who you are, because I think I'd really like you.)

[beacooker]

I have been extremely upfront and adamant with my boyfriend about my lack of desire to have children. There is absolutely NO WAY he doesn't know where I stand. Having said that, it would really disturb me to find out a few years down the road that he was either holding out on me or had changed his mind about wanting kids. So I don't envy you in this position.


You said 'disturb' you, which can be interpreted in a lot of ways, and I'm not sure which way you mean it, but I think it is entirely possible and very natural for someone to change their mind, perhaps several times, about whether or not they want kids. Some people are lucky that they always know whether they do or don't want kids, but lots of people go through several changes of mind, before finally making a choice (or having it made for them, in some cases).

Unknown, I feel for you. It is a very hard choice, and unfortunately, I'm not sure that gathering more information really will help you much (not that its not a great place to start). Answers are more likely to be swayed towards the 'I didn't want kids, then I had them and I'm glad I did' responses than towards 'I had them, but I wish I hadn't' responses. Perhaps because more people are in the former camp than the latter, but perhaps because the latter camp isn't as likely to come forward. And even if 99% were in the former camp, that doesn't help you any if you came out in the 1%.

I think having kids is the ultimate leap of faith. You have no way of determining how you will feel about them, and no real way of preparing yourself for the life changes that occur, be they good or bad. At some point, you just have to decide if you're going to hold your nose and jump.

Best of luck!

[Laurielee]

Unknown, I too am very much like you and could have written the same thing. Except in my case DH was adamant in the very beginning of not wanting children since he has 3 of his own. But he could never understand why a woman would not want a child and for years he was weary that I was only saying it to appease him and that I would someday want a child.

I too have moments like SusanMC, and thats all they are to me is fleeting moments. I never thought of it like that but she explained it perfectly for me. Except I would "never outloud express it, because then DH would probably think oh you want to have a baby."

You have been given some very insightful personal experiences, and as others have said, only you and your DH can make the decision thats right for you.


Laurie

[scout1222]

Yes, I said disturbed. Sure he can change his mind (I mean hell, that's what everyone says about me!) but it will definitely throw me for a loop. That's what I mean by it.

[sillybeans]

I'm not a breeder (and I hate that term as well), but I am a Mom. My son was adopted about a year and a half ago.

Ten years ago, I had no interest in having a child. I wasn't even sure I wanted to get married. But this isn't a story about how I met the right man and my life forever changed. It's about how I met the WRONG man and was forced to think about what I wanted from life.

And what I wanted was a family. I didn't know I would have to work as hard as I did and sacrifice as much as I had to in order to build that family.

Adoption is a funny thing--many times spouses have differing attitudes toward adoption, and my counsel to them is to wait until they're on the same page to proceede.

My advice to you would be the same. I love my kid--he carries my heart with him wherever he goes. I cannot imagine life without him. But it's hard. I am NOT a mommy-woman. And even though my husband takes on a little more of the child care than I do (I am the primary breadwinner), I'm still Mom.

Being Mom means cleaning up pee from the carpet at 3 am, and dealing with a child who's angry because I had to go on a business trip. I don't get to choose the Kodak moments when I want to be Mom. It's a sacrifice, and I couldn't do it without my husband or without my job.

If you aren't absolutely sure you want a child, don't have a child. If you can't have a child without a set of expectations for that child, don't have a child. At the very least, I also encourage you to talk to a counselor before making a decision.

Good luck.
Tracy

[hollysmom]

Maybe it would be best to become foster parents for a child, or a big brother or big sister so you can mentor a child. There are already Sooooo many unwanted children in this world - don't have a child to please ONE of you, have a child because you BOTH WANT a child. It is the biggest decision you will ever make, you will be taking care of this child for years to come, you better be ready to give everything you got.
I'm a married mother of 2 teens, (17 & 18) and have never been happier in my life!
Sure, it's been hard, financially and emotionally exhausting, wonderful, thrilling and I would not change one second of my life and our decision to have children.
Good luck to both of you. Debralynn :)

She said it better than I would have. I haven't read through the entire thread, but know that fostering could give you the opportunity to experience the different ages and decide if you might want to adopt an older child - if it's babyhood you are concerned about, etc. You may decide that fostering classes will help you understand more not only about parenting and your emotions about it.

We ALL resent the sacrifices that we make for our kids - don't kid yourself that we don't, but we realize that it is part of the package and have decided that it is worth it.

SSM

[MrsReber]

I'm chiming in a bit late here as I knew this could turn into a controversial issue. I admit I have only gotten through the posts on page 1, but I have a few thoughts.

DH and I were together 4 years before having kids. I knew I wanted kids. He agreed he saw kids in his future. This was a definite deal breaker for me so it was discussed prior to marriage. Why did I want kids? I have no idea whatsoever. I just knew I wanted them in my life. Maybe to get back something that was missing from my childhood. Maybe because I just couldn't see not having kids.

I am now working from home and the kids have been here all summer. It's been great and it's been awful. Your time will no longer be your own. If you like hanging out, napping when you feel like it, doing things on a whim- well, you'll give that up for a bit.

I was having a particularly exasperating day recently- between work, conference calls, kids, housework and things that I simply couldn't get to (laundry, food shopping). But at the end of the day as I was lying on the couch exhausted, DD (6) came over to me and said "Mommy, I want to snuggle with you." Let me tell you, I'd relive that entire day just for that moment. To me, that's what makes it worth it- those little rewards, those "I love you's," the first day of kindergarten, the many, many firsts you get to experience through the eyes of your child. And it's possible to fall in love with your DH all over again as he changes diapers, falls asleep with a tiny baby on his chest, or comforts a crying child.

My parents divorced when I was 5. They still to this day do not get along. DH's parents divorced. His mom dated a million men. His father died when he was about 12. We had bad role models for relationships and were given little direction in life. Yet we found each other and vowed that our children would have parents who would do what it takes to keep the family together. Not as in staying together for the sake of the children, but working at our relationships and respecting each other.

Yes, my relationship with DH has changed, but things will slowly get back to normal. You and your DH should be the most important things in each other's lives because you are the foundation of your family. By this, I mean whether or not you choose to have children, you are a family and the husband and wife are the foundation of that. If your relationship with DH is not good, it's difficult to maintain a happy household.

I have a friend who wanted (wants?) children, but her DH is not exactly agreeable. I have another friend who was not able to have kids, but her DH told her before they got married that he would do what was necessary so they could adopt. He went back on his word and their marriage subsequently failed.

Then I have another friend who never wanted kids. Her husband pleaded. She finally agreed to have just one- no more. And now they have three because she wanted the next two very badly.

As you realize, it's not to be taken lightly. Your relationship with your DH will change with children. Your knowledge of yourself and the world around you will change.

Here's my disclaimer: I completely understand that having children is not for everyone, but it was definitely for me and I don't regret a single day from conception to this very moment.

[Robyncz]

All I am saying is that you all are kind of overwhelming OP with the opinion that for you it was the best decision you made (just my interpretation but I could be tainted because of 20+ years of hearing how wonderful children are and how everyone should want 3, at least). I just wanted to give her another view.

I truely am happy for each and every one of you who have made the choice to breed. Without you the species would die off, so for that I am grateful. I am also very happy that you appear to be doing a good job are happy with your choice and aren't pressuring others to follow your example.

So is there a reason I can't have an alternative POV?

I don't think anyone is arguing against your right to an alternative POV, but I think you are reading these responses with your dukes up ready to fight for your side. That's fine. You just need to recognize that what you're hearing isn't necessarily what people are saying.
None of the responses here have told the OP (or you, for that matter) to have a baby. The only reason this has become a point of contention is that you seem to be putting words in other posters' mouths, and some of us felt like we needed to clarify.

And finally, yes, the term "breeder" is perjorative and you know it. To pretend otherwise is disengenuous.

[HRJ]

Since we need to get back on track....

When I thought about it really hard, tho, I realized that I was just wanting those specific moments. That feeling at that point in time.

This struck a chord for me. Yes, I have a child -- was very much wanted; went through hell and back to bring him into our lives; best thing I ever did; love him to pieces; no regrets, etc. etc. But then the question arose -- do we want another? For me, that was the really excruciating decision, and in a lot of ways, it was like making the child/no child decision all over again. DH and I swung back and forth wildly on this, and we weren't always in the same place at the same time -- but we have, finally (I think ;) ) landed in the same place, which is that we are happy with our family the way it is.

And one of the things that got me to this point was realizing that in my mind, I wasn't "buying" into the whole package of what having another child might be like -- just wanting "that feeling at that point in time," as SusanMac put it so well. I realized that the times I wanted another child the most were when I heard about someone else having a second -- and, particularly, when I saw or heard about someone else who had adopted their second -- it was just some sort of minor "jealousy," I guess, but, that's not a good enough reason to bring a child into your family forever.

Anyway, as others have said, caring for a child is impossibly hard, and impossibly rewarding, but, in the best of all possible worlds, it's not something to embark on if you're feeling at all ambivalent, for whatever reasons.

I also agree that it sounds more like you (OP) do know what you want -- what's eating you up, more likely, is the idea of possibly hurting your DH. I do think that counseling is a great idea -- there are a lot of family therapists who specialize in just this subject.

I'm sorry you are struggling with this so much. ((OP))

Helene

PS -- Re, "breeder" -- it is not only an offensive term to those who have given birth, but, is also offensive to those of us who have become parents without procreating biologically -- it reduces the act of parenting to an act of biology, which is most certainly not the case. (Sorry for dragging that up again. I couldn't help myself. :mad: ).

[beacooker]

Yes, I said disturbed. Sure he can change his mind (I mean hell, that's what everyone says about me!) but it will definitely throw me for a loop. That's what I mean by it.

Fair enough! I think it would throw anyone for a loop. I posted what I did because I sometimes wonder if all the talk about discussing this issue before marriage leads some people to feel like the answer must be set in stone after that, or the other person is a jerk.

[PAMMELA]

To speak for all of us that took the time to write heartfelt and meaningful posts, let's not let this thread take a turn in the wrong direction.

I think everyone has been respectful and honest about their feelings and I don't think anyone has tried to push their POV onto the OP. I for one am very much enjoying reading this thread because I feel a little less an outcast for choosing to be child-free, since I think it is not the norm (but it's becoming more acceptable as time goes on).

[AvrilH]

My first pg was accidental, and I was ambivalent, to say the least, about being a Mom. I was faced with all the same self-doubts that you had: I love to sleep, nap, do what I want. I thought I'd be a lousy mother.

Guess what? It has been the best. THE BEST! We ended up having two more kids after our first, and it was DH (the one who wanted babies in the first place) that did not want any more. I wanted a FOURTH! (In fact, I still kinda do.)

I can understant a life could be great (read: Freeing! Not so financially stressful! Not so tiring) without kids. For sure. Sounds good. But I never, never, never wish I didn't have them.

The worst part about them is that I know my time with them will end - in fact I am already looking forward to my grandchildren (I've asked each of my boys to have three, too, so I can have a whole gaggle of them).

[PAMMELA]

The worst part about them is that I know my time with them will end - in fact I am already looking forward to my grandchildren (I've asked each of my boys to have three, too, so I can have a whole gaggle of them).


I have to admit (being completely honest here) that I think I will miss having grandchildren....but you can't have them if you don't have any kids!

I have one sister with one child and DH has two siblings and his brother has one child (who is now 20). That's it for grandkids for MIL and she is NOT happy about that.

[LaraW]

The grandchildren thing is what turned DH off to kids for a long time. I think MIL started in on DH and BIL about the time they were 12 about giving her grandchildren. DH was 33 when DD was born, so that was a lot of years of her talking about it.

I agree that having children or not is a deeply personal choice and that nobody else can tell you what to do or not to do. Each choice comes with its own set of pros and cons, and you take the cons along with the pros.

I think that the suggestion of fostering or getting involved with a Big Brothers or mentoring type of program might be a good compromise.

Kids don't stay kids forever. I have a great relationship with my parents and sisters and I hope to have the same with my kids when they grow up. The grandchildren thing isn't even in my head right now, but its really not up to me anyway. ;)

[PAMMELA]

Well I made the mistake of telling MIL that i'd "decide" when I turned 30 (because I got tired of hearing it every day - I got married just before turning 23). Well when I turned 30 she really turned up the heat. It was bad. I finally just said, you need to talk to your son! Well i'm 41 now and she STILL talks about it, although I think she has finally accepted the fact that we aren't having kids. My Mom is the complete opposite - she says, hey don't have any for me! :)

[donleyk]

I've sat here most of the day trying to decide if I wanted to add to this thread. I have not read very many of the posts.

Just a few thoughts and likely I'm repeating stuff already said:

1. You're not a "bad" person for not wanting kids.
2. There are a ton of ways for your DH to use his paternal instincts without having children.
3. Children do not make you complete. I don't think you have this concern but I know from experience this is a common misnomer with women with raging hormones and MIL's.
4. You're not self-centered for not wanting children. Like it's been mentioned before here, people who do have kids can be the self-centered ones. That whole people don't want to die alone thing. :rolleyes: Like having some snot nosed kid is going to prevent that :confused: Pleeezzeee.

DH and I are childless by choice. It took the 5th great niece before DH got any pangs regarding not having kids. She's a precocious, sharp as a tack, mouthy tow head but at the end of the visit he's still glad he isn't a parent.

On a side note I had to laugh at my MIL who managed to ask if we "had" to get married and then had a fit when we announced we were not having children. The icing on the cake was when she complained to me about her daughter not being attentive to one of her kids and said 'you shouldn't have kids if you don't want them' in which I replied 'EXACTLY'.

You should not feel guilty about not wanting children.

[avariell]

I have to admit (being completely honest here) that I think I will miss having grandchildren....but you can't have them if you don't have any kids!

I have one sister with one child and DH has two siblings and his brother has one child (who is now 20). That's it for grandkids for MIL and she is NOT happy about that.

i just want you to know that one of the most important people in my life is a great aunt. her sister, my grandma, died when i was 11 or 12, so i didn't get enough time with her. my great aunt, however, has filled a very important role in my life - so i just want you to know you don't need to be biological anything to be very very important to someone :) so stay in touch with your nieces and nephews ;)

[PAMMELA]

i just want you to know that one of the most important people in my life is a great aunt. her sister, my grandma, died when i was 11 or 12, so i didn't get enough time with her. my great aunt, however, has filled a very important role in my life - so i just want you to know you don't need to be biological anything to be very very important to someone :) so stay in touch with your nieces and nephews ;)

Thank you Josie!

[The Other Side]

I think that we have discussed this topic before, you and I.

I am the one who is in the position of your DH, except I have never breathed a word of how I feel about children to my Other Half.
I can't tell you whether it is right to have children or not, only you can know. But I can tell you that I would never trade my love for the privilege of having children. I made that decision the day i committed myself to him and I can live with it. I think that your DH may feel the same way.

Second, I would worry about having children "for him". If your heart is not in it, it could ruin your relationship so much if it turned out that the "mothering instinct" doesn't come out at birth. You would probably resent your DH AND the child. But that is just my guess.

Good luck with your decision ~ i suspect it won't be easy, no matter what side you come down on.

[sneezles]

Earlier today I read the first couple of pages in response to your post. I've thought about it for most of the day. I knew from the time I was 11 years old that I wanted children, couldn't imagine my life without children, even to this day babies make me all weak in the knees...I try very hard to get a mom to let me hold her child. Surprisingly, it wasn't something we discussed before marrying...of course, with only 6 weeks between the proposal and the ceremony it was pretty much a shot in the dark anyway. I have 3, I would love to have had 6 or 10 more (surely I'd have gotten at least one daughter out of the mix:p ). That said, if I had known before I'd married that I didn't want children I don't think the man I'd married (if he knew prior to the ceremony that I didn't want children) could convince me otherwise nor would I feel guilt about my preference.

So that has me curious as to why you would second guess your conviction. Granted I've not read all the replies and you may have already answered this (I don't' search very hard for recipe reviews either ;) ). I do appreciate your statement that your pretty much self-centered but have to argue that so am I...I was having children regardless...my way or the highway mentality here!:cool:

[wallycat]

I have to admit (being completely honest here) that I think I will miss having grandchildren....but you can't have them if you don't have any kids!



Actually, if you work it right, you can :D :D :D

DH's daughter is 5 years younger than me and DESPERATELY wanted kids.
She has 2, which means DH has 2 grandkids....which means I have 'em too :D :D

The only thing I feel really bad about is that I"m not into kids...as I posted earlier, never did. I feel like his daughter is cheated out of a more intense "grandma" relationship where her dad as grand-dad is concerned. Her mom moved out of state and her MIL has Alzhiemer's and I feel like the pressure is on me to be "the good grandma that is closer by....even though we are 5 hours away).
I just do the best I can and try to enjoy the moments I do and not blame myself for feeling as I do.

[sneezles]

I just do the best I can and try to enjoy the moments I do and not blame myself for feeling as I do.

Ana,
You should know that children have a sense about these things and they enjoy those same moments. There have to be those odd moments you shared with your parents, as fleeting as they might have been, I think it adds to the moments you share with you DH's grandkids. I know that our upbringing was vastly different but I know we also endured good and bad times. I cling to those good times as reference but knew without a doubt I was going to be a better parent than the one I had...

[cminmd]

Just another 2 cents.
I adopted two kids so I know that "breeding" does not mean you will be a good parent. The US wouldn't have 600,000 kids in foster care and 150,000 private adoptions if a bond magically formed between parents and children.
I see plenty of kids brought in to where I work that have mothers that have hurt them or neglected them. I know they are the extremes, but it proves the point that it takes more than biology to make a loving mother child bond. I think it takes stability, money, preparation, patience, humor and the occassional glass of wine-, but that's just me!
To me, asking people if they regret being a parent is like asking a guy if they look at internet porn- while he is coming out of church standing next to his wife. Who would ever say yes? No one. You can't do it. The reality is if a guy is a guy and owns a computer- he has looked at internet porn. I know, I know- except for all the husbands on this board of course! I think even the best parents have their days, their disapointments and their frustrations. As adoptive parents, we jumped through a thousand hoops- fingerprinting, counselling, home visits, medical evaluations, psych evals, courses, court cases, waiting and worry. Even after all we went through and 100 percent buy in, we still have days where we wish we could run to Cancun and open a swim up bar! The idea of one of us dragging the other into the process may have been enough to poison our marriage- which I think is one of the greatest gifts we give to our kids. Watching loving parents model healthy marriage.
Not to mention- on a planet of 7 billion- I think it is horendous that we encourage- not just encourage, but almost browbeat- parenthood on anyone.
Good luck in your decision.

[Canice]

....
So that has me curious as to why you would second guess your conviction. ....

What stands out to me is that it doesn't seem Unknown is second guessing her conviction at all. I can see wavering, reconsidering, reevaluating, etc., but it seems to come down to "Should I do this to make my husband happy?" While it obviously worked out extraordinarily well for chefzhat, I find the notion of bestowing a child as a "gift" upsetting. Someone years ago suggested that I do that. "A gift? You mean like a Barcalounger?" I found it physically insulting and perhaps not so fine for the "gift" herself.
I think we all know people who didn't want to have children and suddenly found themselves besotted with their unexpected little ones -- every likelihood Unknown would, too. But boy, it's a gamble. I prefer to gamble on things I enter with hope and optimism.

[Peweh]

Well I made the mistake of telling MIL that i'd "decide" when I turned 30 (because I got tired of hearing it every day - I got married just before turning 23). Well when I turned 30 she really turned up the heat. It was bad. I finally just said, you need to talk to your son! Well i'm 41 now and she STILL talks about it, although I think she has finally accepted the fact that we aren't having kids. My Mom is the complete opposite - she says, hey don't have any for me! :)

LOL my MIL used to drop little 'can't wait til you have kids' bombs despite us saying it wasn't in the plans I told DH she better knock it off or I'm going to lie and say "I'd love them but DH's boys can't swim" well he must've talked to her because I haven't heard a peep since. (and I don't mean to make light of anyone having fertility problems so please don't take it that way.)

[AZLorena]

LOL my MIL used to drop little 'can't wait til you have kids' bombs despite us saying it wasn't in the plans I told DH she better knock it off or I'm going to lie and say "I'd love them but DH's boys can't swim" well he must've talked to her because I haven't heard a peep since. (and I don't mean to make light of anyone having fertility problems so please don't take it that way.)

We actually managed to shut our family up when we told them that we had that option surgically removed.

Lorena

[fstrpstr]

My experience is from a different perspective. The love of my life, my DH passed away not to long ago. I am grateful I have seven children that are a part of him. My husbands was a very accomplished man, but our children were his greatest delights. I am grateful we made that decision a long time ago. IMHO having children is a joint decision. From your post it sounds like you have a good relationship. I sincerely hope you two find what is best for your life.

[stefania4]

None of the responses here have told the OP (or you, for that matter) to have a baby.

Not to speak for the original poster on this, but I think this reflects something that happens outside of these boards. If you say you don't want children, people tell you there's every chance you'll change your mind (after all, they did! And it worked out great!). Maybe when you meet the right guy. Maybe at a different point in your career. Maybe when you wake up and it's a rainy Tuesday like any other day and you say "NOW.... NOW I have a maternal urge."

If you say you do want children,they ask when, they ask how many, but they never say "you never know, you could change your mind" or "things change - you could wake up some morning and, for no reason, suddenly have zero maternal instinct."

For me, file that under "irritating but not full-fledged offensive."

[ljt2r]

Not to speak for the original poster on this, but I think this reflects something that happens outside of these boards. If you say you don't want children, people tell you there's every chance you'll change your mind (after all, they did! And it worked out great!). Maybe when you meet the right guy. Maybe at a different point in your career. Maybe when you wake up and it's a rainy Tuesday like any other day and you say "NOW.... NOW I have a maternal urge."

If you say you do want children,they ask when, they ask how many, but they never say "you never know, you could change your mind" or "things change - you could wake up some morning and, for no reason, suddenly have zero maternal instinct."

For me, file that under "irritating but not full-fledged offensive."

I disagree--given that the OP asked us about our experiences. It's not like she just randomly announced I don't want kids and then we all just chimed in saying oh you will change your mind (which I disagree that any of us did anyway). I mean maybe you have experienced this in other conversations, but I don't believe it happened here.

ETA Ooops, cripes I am sorry this is what you were saying. OK then yes I agree with you. :o I think is what is known as mommy brain--or maybe trying to read posts while dealing a toddler and a baby at any rate. I'm sorry.

As to IL stories, btw, my FIL came at us full force, which drove me nuts since I wanted kids and DH did not, finally I told DH to tell him this, he did, but then FIL badgered my mom at our wedding, :eek: making it clear he thought DH was just covering for me! DH didn't believe me (he was certain his parents had believed him), but after we had DD#1, FIL asked ME why I'D changed MY mind!!!! :mad:

[Robyncz]

Not to speak for the original poster on this, but I think this reflects something that happens outside of these boards.

I completely understand that, and that was sort of the point I was trying to make. I think it is possible that engineer was responding to her experiences elsewhere rather than reacting to what the posters on this thread were actually saying.

[Ulegi2]

No way. Don't do it. The world is overpopulated. Besides that, you made it clear that you didn't and don't want kids. On top of that, you said that you wouldn't be a good parent. It would be extremely shortsighted of you to risk wrecking a kid's life to accommodate the too-late communicated and perhaps passing desire of someone else who says he can live without a child anyway. No way. Don't do it. If you want some lasting presence of you on earth, do a good deed.

[PAMMELA]

No way. Don't do it. The world is overpopulated. Besides that, you made it clear that you didn't and don't want kids. On top of that, you said that you wouldn't be a good parent. It would be extremely shortsighted of you to risk wrecking a kid's life to accommodate the too-late communicated and perhaps passing desire of someone else who says he can live without a child anyway. No way. Don't do it. If you want some lasting presence of you on earth, do a good deed.


Nice post.:rolleyes:

[Unknown]

On top of that, you said that you wouldn't be a good parent. It would be extremely shortsighted of you...

First, what I actually said was, "I don't think I would make a very good parent." Quite frankly, I think it takes a pretty arrogant person to say, "Of course I would be a great parent, I'm sure of that." :rolleyes:

Second, I guess I thought that by taking this issue so seriously and giving it full and fair consideration and contemplation, I was being anything but shortsighted.

Thanks for your post, but I didn't post a poll asking people to tell me if I should or shouldn't have children.

And by no means have I taken offensive to anyone's post, nor do I feel like anyone here has pressured me into making a decision one way or another. I asked for stories and comments and suggestions and advice, and I appreciate everyone's thoughtfulness on this emotional issue.

And for those of you who have sent PMs, thanks also. And I will respond when I get a chance.

[oceanjasper]

Growing up, I had no doubts that I wanted to be a Mom. However, when I got married and was in a perfect position to try to get pregnant, I really wasn't that interested. In fact, I struggled a lot with the decision of whether or not to have children. There were no children in my life, I felt totally uncomfortable if I had to interact with any, and I would literally break out into a sweat if forced to hold a baby. :)

It wasn't until after that marriage had ended (not related to children issues) that my brother got married and had children. It is his children and my relationship with them that has changed everything. I love those kids so much that I would put my life before theirs without a moment of hesitation. I often think of just how intense a mother or father's love must be for their children, if this is how I feel about my nieces and nephews. I don't feel this way about anyone else's kids, but my level of comfort around children has changed completely.

I now know with certainty that I want to have my own children, if I can. I do love the aspects of my personal life that are related to not having children, just as you do, but I feel that I would be missing out on something really amazing if I chose not to have children. I am not sure what I would do if the person I loved and wanted to spend the rest of my life with did not want to have children. I think that would be so difficult. My heart really goes out to you and your DH as you struggle with this issue. I hope that you are both able to find peace in the decision you made/make.

[LaraW]

Unknown, I am a reader and a reseacher, and so that is why I had this thought, but if you are interested in pursuing this and doing some soul-searching, you might do some reading on the topic. There are some great books out there. I don't think that this struggle is that uncommon.

(((Hugs))) You are right that it is a decision not to be taken lightly. I didn't say it in my post above, but I think that you should believe (not a great word. not saying you don't belive him. I think you know what I'm getting at here) your DH when he says that he wants to be with you no matter what. That is a great thing, and there are a lot of people who would leave their partners over this issue. It sounds to me like you have quite a catch :)

[Lucinda]

[QUOTE=hohum;1260366]You say you are self centered. Have you tried working on that?

I mean to know you are self centered and not try and change seems weird to me.
It is true though that women who are pretty selfish can change overnight once they become a mom.
QUOTE]

I am unchilded by choice and I have always thought that it is far more selfish and self centered to have a child to satisfy one's ego or for wanting to satisfy maternal instincts even though one's life is not really suitable for the best nurturing of a child. I think recognizing one's "limitations" and priorities and then deciding not to inflict that on a helpless human being is a pretty unselfish act.

That being said, I have seen both sides of the coin. A dear friend of mine never wanted children, but got unexpectedly pregnant and is now one of the best moms I know. My great grandmother never really wanted a child, had one anyway because that was what was expected of her and unintentionally inflicted emotional trauma that took two generations to heal.

The greatest gift my parents gave me was the knowledge that I was wholeheartedly longed for and loved and I decided that I would not conceive a child unless I could pass that gift along.

[avariell]

on the front page of msn this morning:
http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/couplesandmarriage/articlelhj.aspx?cp-documentid=5292470&gt1=10323

i haven't read it yet but the title made me think of this thread.

[LiaHuber]

Oh Unknown, I so feel for you. I'm in my mid-30s (my husband is 7 years older than me), have been married for over 10 years and I had never been a kid person or wanted kids--neither of us were. We talked about it before we got married and agreed that we didn't want kids, yet reserved the right to revisit along the way. But when I had some major health issues 8 years ago that nixed the possiblity of having our own kids, we sort of just thought "that's that" and took it as a definitive "no."

But . . . people never stopped asking if we were going to have kids, it just turned to "are you going to adopt?" For a good many years I was the banner woman for choosing not to have kids; I had my stake firmly planted in the ground as a NO.

But . . . A little over a year ago, I started feeling a little quiver of "wow, I think we're supposed to have a little one here." It freaked me out--as I said, my 'NO' stake was in deep and had really become part of my identity--and I knew my husband wasn't at all on the baby bandwagon.

The way I chose to deal with it was to be open and honest with him when I'd have a wave of longing, but without any manipulative intentions. At the time, I honestly didn't know if it was a phase I was going through or what. I just knew that if I didn't express what I was feeling, I would feel resentment towards my husband later on if we didn't adopt, and that if I manipulated my husband to adopt a child (which even I wasn't sold on at the time), odds are he would resent me later on down the line.

The big change for me came in the form of 51%. It wasn't, as you said, that one day I just did a 180 and all of a sudden wanted a kid. It was that, through fits and starts and questioning and defining over a decade, I got to 51%. And then 60%. And then on from there. About a month later, after a lot of talking and praying, I asked my husband if it felt more right to envision the future as we were then, or as a father. He got tears in his eyes, stood up from his chair, stepped over an invisible line and said, "I think I'm at 51."

A few months later we started the adoption process and are now the proud parents of a heart-wrenchingly adorable 9-1/2 month old little girl. Still, though, I don't fit the "mommy" mold very well. I called my own mom the other day and asked her if it made me unloving that I didn't really want to belong to a bunch of mommy groups, and that, as much as I love that my daughter eats great food, I didn't so much like having to clean up a gargantuan mess three times a day, and that I like working, having my own time to write. In short, I love my little girl with abandon, but that hasn't suddenly transformed me into someone-who-just-plain-loves-kids-and-everything-about-them-and-wants-to-be-around-them-24-7. And, I think, that's OK. It's just two different types of personalities and has nothing to do with how good or loving of a mother one or the other is. As for my husband . . . he's totally smitten, cries several times a week from an overflow of love for his daughter and says all the time how he can't imagine ever thinking of life without her.

There's my story, which I hope will give you some comfort, and here's my advice: 1) be completely open with your husband about how you feel, and ask him to do the same . . . and talk A LOT--you both may go up and down and back and forth over a long period of time on this and that's OK, just communicate about wherever you are in the moment. 1a) don't rush 2) don't feel badly about not being in the exact same place as one another. 3) remember the 51%. 4) if you or your husband have faith, pray about it--that was, literally, our saving grace.

Good luck!
Lia

[leightx]

This has been a really interesting thread for me, even though I've always wanted kids. I do wonder how many people out there have kids that originally didn't want to (or have unplanned pregnancies), and still feel the same way after the kids are born.

One of my best friends always said she didn't want kids, and while I outwardly supported her and didn't bug her about it at all, inside, I always felt a bit sad for her. I guess that's what causes some people to push the issue so much - it's hard to describe to someone the depth of feeling you get when you have kids, and I think there are some people who just think everyone should experience kids.

I don't think I agree with that idea, but I also don't feel like people who are childless really do fully understand what it's like to be a parent. Again - I'm not saying they necessarily need to understand it, but IMO it's impossible to decide you don't want kids because babies make you uncomfortable, or you don't like babysitting, or your nephew drives you batsh!t, or because you spend all day with kids and don't want to come home to your own, or because you value your time to relax / go on vacation / go to the gym / hang out with DH. I'm not trying to say that those aren't all valid feelings - they are, most definitely! But until you experience being a parent, you just can't really wrap your brain around the depth of love you feel towards your own offspring (or those you adopt - I'm an adoptee). Your own kids are just different. Period. Life with kids is just so much...more. I'm not saying that I wasn't "complete" before, but I never imagined how much love and joy and laughter there would be when kids came into the picture. People told me about it, to be sure, but it's just impossible to put into words.

So...I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not really sure how to answer your question, since I've never been in your position - I've always wanted kids. But parenting is just so different than I ever imagined it would be, and I think it's awfully hard to make a decision of such monumental proportions without having the benefit of actual parenting experience. Of course, that's what we all do, for the most part. We either make the leap and become parents, or we don't. I think the only guarantee is that however much you think you understand what it's like to be a parent, you're probably wrong. ;)

Oh - and that friend that said she never wanted kids? She remarried last year, and is now 4 months pregnant with their first, and positively glowing. I'm not sure why she changed her mind, but I think she'll be a terrific mom, and I'm thrilled to pieces for her.

[armel]

I don't think I agree with that idea, but I also don't feel like people who are childless really do fully understand what it's like to be a parent. Again - I'm not saying they necessarily need to understand it, but IMO it's impossible to decide you don't want kids because babies make you uncomfortable, or you don't like babysitting, or your nephew drives you batsh!t, or because you spend all day with kids and don't want to come home to your own, or because you value your time to relax / go on vacation / go to the gym / hang out with DH. I'm not trying to say that those aren't all valid feelings - they are, most definitely! But until you experience being a parent, you just can't really wrap your brain around the depth of love you feel towards your own offspring (or those you adopt - I'm an adoptee). Your own kids are just different. Period. Life with kids is just so much...more. I'm not saying that I wasn't "complete" before, but I never imagined how much love and joy and laughter there would be when kids came into the picture. People told me about it, to be sure, but it's just impossible to put into words.

And yet, even though you feel this way, I also believe it is entirely possible for you to resent your children and wish you had never had them. So unless you truly know you want children, I would not count that your situation will be the same for others. After all, you said you've always wanted children.

I am extremely grateful and thankful not to have children. And really the "chance" that if I were to have children I might feel differenlty doesn't make it seem like such a good idea to test it out to see if that were true. It isn't like you just get to return them to the store if it doesn't work out for you. You need to be really certain that you want nothing less than to bring a child into this world and devote your life to it, before you actually decide to do so. (JMHO)

[leightx]

And yet, even though you feel this way, I also believe it is entirely possible for you to resent your children and wish you had never had them.


Right, that's exactly what I was trying to get across. I guess in my experience I've just never come across anyone who changed their mind, decided to have kids, and later regretted it. I'm quite sure those people exist - I just don't know anyone personally. On the other hand, I know quite a few women who had totally unplanned (and unwanted) pregnancies, and would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

So unless you truly know you want children, I would not count that your situation will be the same for others. After all, you said you've always wanted children.
Actually, I would argue that my situation - not understanding the depths to how much you can love your child until you actually have one - is pretty much universal for most parents, whether they initially planned on having children or not.

Obviously there are exceptions - some people are simply not cut out to be parents, and whether they want kids or not is often beside the point. Britney Spears comes to mind... :rolleyes: Of course it's impossible to take a test drive, or it's at least highly unethical, although plenty of "parents" seem to do it. But I do think it's an issue that is worthy of examining, and that's exactly what Unknown is trying to do. And I felt like it was worth pointing out that any preconceived notions about how much you like children or worries about your lack of maternal instinct very often fly right out the window when you have a child.

I'm not trying to convince Unknown to have a child that she definitely doesn't want - I'm hoping to maybe help her see that her fears and insecurities and worries about having kids aren't really all that unusual, and are often unfounded.

[Lucinda]

I don't believe everyone is "called" to have children, just like not everyone is called to marriage. Luckily we live in a time and place where it is a choice and not a requirement.

I have never felt the call to motherhood in the way I have experienced the call to other things in life. I accepted that a long time ago, 98% regret free. Luckily my family has been accepting of my decision although I am sure it must be a disappointment to my mom, who would have been an incredible grandma.

[Puppylove]

I didn't have time to read everyone else's post, but I thought I'd answer your "how did you know you wanted kids" question.
DH and I are in our 7th year of marriage and we both knew we wanted kids someday, eventually, but we had lots of other things we wanted to do as well. About 1.5 to 2 years ago we had a string of deaths in our families and as we attended several memorial services it became really apparent to me that the love a parent passes from herself to her child is enormous. I knew most of these families intimately, they were far from perfect, lots of varied disfunctionality, but the relationships formed and memories made were unique and priceless. DH and I decided it was time to make it a priority and did a slew of things we wanted to do as a couple and strated trying several months ago. Hopefully we will be blessed with a child in the near future.
That said - children are not for everyone. If you decide that you do not want children (and I have several friends who have made that decision) make sure that you are invested in meaningful relationships. Mentoring is great, prioritize you nieces/nephews/best-friends child and have a meaningful relationship with them.
I think you mentioned connecting with older kids, perhaps you could foster one - they really need it. Whatever you decide, what our lives (in my limited perspective) amount to at our memorial service are the relationships we participated in while on earth, and there are many ways to cultivate those relationships.

[Chefzhat]

Puppylove says: If you decide that you do not want children (and I have several friends who have made that decision) make sure that you are invested in meaningful relationships. Mentoring is great, prioritize you nieces/nephews/best-friends child and have a meaningful relationship with them.
I think you mentioned connecting with older kids, perhaps you could foster one - they really need it. Whatever you decide, what our lives (in my limited perspective) amount to at our memorial service are the relationships we participated in while on earth, and there are many ways to cultivate those relationships.
Wonderful advice. :)

[PAMMELA]

I have a friend who always would tell me there is NOTHING like having kids, OMG really, I need to, I have to, why aren't I, i'll never experience anything like it, you don't know what you're missing, and she would be so sad for me if I don't. Ugh...this bothers me a lot even though i'm sure she means well because that's how SHE feels. But not everyone feels that way about it and if we we have chosen not to have children, really you do not have to feel sad for us. Not saying that it's maybe NOT the best thing EVER to YOU, just saying it's not the best thing EVER for ME. And if I don't know what i'm missing because I don't have kids, well then that's what that means, I DON'T KNOW and that is OK by me.

[armel]

But not everyone feels that way about it and if we have chosen not to have children, really you do not have to feel sad for us.

Zaqly. What Pammela said. :)

[Terri_A]

I had successfully avoided this thread until now. I knew if I read the whole thing I'd want to give my 2 cents and I don't want to look like a heel, but I want to be honest. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I'm a single mother of a 5 year old girl. I was 6 months pregnant when I found out my ex was having an affair. The weeone was a planned pregnancy that I wanted VERY much. I want to state also that I LOVE her very much and would not trade her for anything. I don't think I'd have survived my divorce if it hadn't have been for her dependence on me.

With all of that said, there are days I regret it all. It's hard, it's tiring, it's frustrating. I do my very best every day to help her be a good person, make good choices, provide for her, etc, and yet I will never get it right. I am a perfectionist by nature and the fact that I can't make her perfect is tough. The fact that I'm not a perfect mom is tough. The fact that her life with basically one parent popping in and out is tough. So, sometimes I regret it. Would I change it? I don't know...I don't think so, but I'd be lying if I said that I never wondered what life would be like without her.

My situation is quite diff't from yours, but I wanted to provide my perspective. I didn't think I wanted kids growing up, then changed my mind when I met the weeone's father, but doing it on my own was not what I signed up for. I guess I regret the situation, but still...

So, don't hate me because I was honest. I do love the weeone and will always do the best I can for her...but I'm not perfect, only human.

[mbrogier]

Right, that's exactly what I was trying to get across. I guess in my experience I've just never come across anyone who changed their mind, decided to have kids, and later regretted it. I'm quite sure those people exist - I just don't know anyone personally. On the other hand, I know quite a few women who had totally unplanned (and unwanted) pregnancies, and would do it all over again in a heartbeat.



Not many would admit that they had made a mistake or regretted having children or multiple children. Obviously some do since our nation has a very full foster program. I just don't think it's statistically possible for all of those children to be accidents that were surrendered or to be victims of abuse. My own brother was given up by a couple who just regretted having a child and couldn't handle it. He was 3. It has been tough for him to deal with the fact that his mother didn't want him--since he had a good life with them and then one day they didn't love him anymore.

As for my view on this subject, I was never the girl that played dolls or wanted to grow up and be a mother. I was too busy going on adventures. That didn't change when I grew up. I didn't have much biological urge to have a family--although my hormones were all out of whack. I would have liked to have a child with Rob if my genes and health weren't so bad. I'd love to have enough stamina to take care of myself, much less someone else. Maybe one day we can adopt.

I'd like to help children who are older and don't have a family. That's what makes me want a family--children who don't have a loving home. I loved working with the youth in the church we were part of near Detroit. I had close relationships with a couple. Rob and I acted like foster parents.

[Jessica]

Terri A--Thank you for that very honest post. I am fortunate to be raising my son with a loving DH and there are still days when it is very difficult. My mom was a single mom and she raised three of us after my dad left when I was 6 (the oldest). Yes, she made mistakes, but all of us are healthy adults with jobs and college degrees and none of us has been in jail, on drugs or fallen into any of those ridiculous kids-of-single-mom stereotypes. Your daughter is lucky to have a such a committed mom who tries her best even when life isn't going according to plan, and that is a lesson she will never forget.

One point I haven't seen on this thread is the idea that as adults, we make decisions and it is very normal to have regrets. Most people who are parents will have days or hours when they wonder what life would be like without children, and those who choose not to have kids will wonder what life would be like with children. The same can be true of marriage, a career choice, a geographical move, etc. You will never be sure that all of your choices were the best ones; all you can do is make the best decision for yourself based on current information and then live the best life you can. It is normal to wonder what life would be like with a different set of decisions.

[Krysia1031]

I had successfully avoided this thread until now. I knew if I read the whole thing I'd want to give my 2 cents and I don't want to look like a heel, but I want to be honest. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I'm a single mother of a 5 year old girl. I was 6 months pregnant when I found out my ex was having an affair. The weeone was a planned pregnancy that I wanted VERY much. I want to state also that I LOVE her very much and would not trade her for anything. I don't think I'd have survived my divorce if it hadn't have been for her dependence on me.

With all of that said, there are days I regret it all. It's hard, it's tiring, it's frustrating. I do my very best every day to help her be a good person, make good choices, provide for her, etc, and yet I will never get it right. I am a perfectionist by nature and the fact that I can't make her perfect is tough. The fact that I'm not a perfect mom is tough. The fact that her life with basically one parent popping in and out is tough. So, sometimes I regret it. Would I change it? I don't know...I don't think so, but I'd be lying if I said that I never wondered what life would be like without her.

My situation is quite diff't from yours, but I wanted to provide my perspective. I didn't think I wanted kids growing up, then changed my mind when I met the weeone's father, but doing it on my own was not what I signed up for. I guess I regret the situation, but still...

So, don't hate me because I was honest. I do love the weeone and will always do the best I can for her...but I'm not perfect, only human.

Terri,
I just wanted to say that I applaud you for your honesty. One of my very best friends got divorced right after her 2nd child was born (Ex was cheating on her and left her for another woman) and while I can't say she doesn't love her children to pieces, I think she shares alot of the same sentiments you do. I know you are doing your best and that is all that one can ask for. I am sure your daughter appreciates it!

[testkitchen45]

Wow. What so many OP said (esp. MrsReber and leightx). My $0.02, and I think an OP mentioned this (sorry, don't recall who :o ): if you and your DH don't fully agree on any major, life-changing decision, the veto power should have the upper hand. This approach may mean that one spouse doesn't get what he/she wants, but it also protects the child from living in a two-parent home that functions as a one-parent home. I wish you and your DH all the best as you work this out; my heart goes out to you because it's such a huge decision with lifelong consequences. As a mom, I will tell you that parenting is the hardest job we've ever done, b/c it's 24/7/365 and, to quote a cliche, "failure is not an option." So I'm grateful to have a fully involved DH, for many reasons but also to spell me off when I'm emotionally exhausted, & I do the same for him. If you're not both on board with having children, I think it's best not to start a family. If, years from now, you regret not having children, then only you & he will bear the brunt of that; however, if, years from now, you regret having children, then your children will pick up on those feelings and they will have to bear the brunt of that choice--given those options, I'd protect the children and say not to start a family yet, even if your DH really wants to.

That being said, as far as your own child-free wishes are concerned, please don't think that if you're not baby-crazy about other people's kids, you wouldn't feel nuts about your own. I never got a real boot out of other people's kids & was always happy to hand the baby back, and yet I wanted my own b/c I always wanted to have a family, and to share life's experiences with little ones growing up & seeing the world for the first time. Even when I wanted another baby (now DD), I wasn't too nuts about other babies' drool, diapers, milestones, or whatever. Yet I'm a SAHM who's been involved w/ all that kid stuff for years.

Regarding the selfishness: I think (don't throw tomatoes, BB:) ) that we're all selfish to some degree; it's part of being human. There are times when I'm crawling out of my skin just to have some "me" time. Parenting does force you to improve yourself, b/c all your flaws will come to the fore as you put your children's needs before your own. It's part of the job we choose, and I haven't regretted that choice for an instant--but there are individual moments where the choice to be unselfish, even if I don't feel unselfish at that time, is extremely hard. I think that when you decide to become a parent, you decide to take that leap into the unknown and you commit to doing what's right as a parent even when it's inconvenient or not very fun. If you truly don't see yourself wanting to make that choice, then no matter what DH wants, I hate to say, it's better to be child-free. And that's a valid choice! MILs, friends, or whoever shouldn't berate you for not being "in the club." The trick will be to discuss this openly enough, & in enough depth, with your DH; but when in doubt about starting a family, don't.

Especially (and I don't think OPs have addressed this yet) since parenting comes with no guarantees. When you start a family, you have to take the chance on having a special-needs child, also: that you will give that child the extra time and love he/she needs (or, for that matter, God forbid, an accident or other calamity can propel a healthy child into "special-needs" status, and if you and DH weren't both on board to begin with, such an incident could split up the family). If you're not willing to take whatever life hands you--a "perfect" child vs. one who'll need special help--then again I say, "wait." We wrestled with this question b/c with our last child, my age meant that we were at greater risk for Down's or other issues; we didn't begin trying until we knew that we would be at peace with whatever happened. Our children are all healthy and normal, but I've seen dear friends struggle with child-health issues that will be lifelong. Just another aspect to consider.

I skimmed thru the whole thread but don't recall this: can you and your DH get some counseling about this issue, not to change anyone's minds but just a third voice to help you explore all the nuances of this decision? I sincerely wish you the best as you and your DH work this out.

[leightx]

I don't believe everyone is "called" to have children, just like not everyone is called to marriage. Luckily we live in a time and place where it is a choice and not a requirement.

I guess for me, that simple statement makes more sense than most other explanations for why people don't want to have kids. Many of my friends and I had the same issues or fears, and they were unfounded (in my case). Again - not trying to say that people shouldn't explain, or that particular reasons aren't valid. It's just that for me personally, not being called to have kids is enough of an explanation. When people start saying things like they don't like kids, or can't stand babysitting, I feel compelled to respond with my own experiences (as it seems we've all done on this thread).

I guess that it all boils down to whether or not you want kids. If you do, but you have all the concerns that Unknown mentioned (being "selfish", lacking maternal instinct, etc), those are usually unfounded, or cease to become important once you have children (in my experience). If you don't want kids in the first place, then it's a totally different story.

As far as being "sad" for a close friend that isn't planning on having kids - it's not as if I'm mopey about it, or I ever even tell them. It just happens - maybe "wistful" is a better word, since I don't cry into my wine ever night. ;) I've had friends and family be sad for me for not having a relationship with God / Jesus. I certainly don't ask for their pity, but I think I understand how it's hard not to feel sad for someone that is "missing out" (in their minds) on something that is such a huge part of their own life. I really hope I'm not coming across as one of those people that Pammela mentioned in her post. :o I know I don't IRL, since I would have voiced my thoughts on the matter unless asked point blank by a friend.

Terri - major props to you, both for being an excellent mom, and for posting with such honesty. If it makes you feel any better, there are times when I feel just like you do, and my parenting life is not nearly as difficult. It's often hard, frustrating, thankless work, and I'll never get it "right". And like Jessica so eloquently said, I think everyone has moments of wondering what their lives would be like if they had taken a different path - that's human nature.

[boisewinesnob]

leightx, your post (#99) was great.

I never wanted kids. I did not like babysitting as a teenager and generally don't swoon over babies. But I did have an unplanned pregnancy and chose to raise my child. I have no regrets although it is HARD to be a parent. Lots of work, lots of messes, lots of boredom at times (do I really want to read the same dr suess book over and over, or watch the same disney movie over and over???!) and a lot of decision-making. And a lot of demands on your time and attention.

So, once I had my own child, did that suddenly make me change my tune? Not really. I still don't swoon over babies. I still don't love babysitting other people's kids. I still would never want to be a teacher or work in a daycare. But I definitely love my own.

[BarbaraL]

Like many of the other posters, I was never one to swoon over babies, and I was never particularly comfortable with kids. When DD was born, I've never felt anything like it - completely overwhelming love and a fierce protectiveness - I really think I could have killed someone if they'd threatened my child! I continued to work, so DD had a private sitter then later went into nursery school during the day. She and I were alone most evenings when she was very young, as DH was away alot due to his job. DH was not as keen on having kids, and, truthfully, he was not a "baby" person. But as DD grew and could actually "do" things, he became much more involved with her, and she is the light of his life.
DD is in college now, so I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the trials and tribulations of when she was small. There are definitely sacrifices, both financial and otherwise - I stopped my involvement in my little-theater group, for example, to be with DD in the evenings after work. I adored my little girl and now adore the wonderful young woman she's become. I still am not particularly good with other people's children; like others have said, your own are different.
You also get to live your life over again through your children. First days of school, visiting the zoo, the excitement of the holidays, etc. We enjoy meeting her friends, attending her events, and hearing about her world.
That being said, only you know if you truly do not want a child. And whether or not you "should be" selfish (if you are) is not the issue; if you would resent caring for a child, then you'll resent it (whether you "should" or not).
There really is no right answer. As I wouldn't trade the experience of having and raising my daughter for anything, I hope that you would feel likewise if you have a child. But if you don't want one, then you don't.
I wish the best for you and your DH, whatever you decide.

[Denise]

As a lurker on this thread I want to say thank you to everyone who has posted with such heartfelt and honest thoughts. This thread has helped me with some different perspectives on my own life and I suspect there may be other lurkers benefiting too!

I have always said that I didn't want kids. As another poster put it I have sort of put a stake in the ground saying "No" and stood firmly by it. DH has gone along with this, though I have sometimes felt that he would like to have kids. I try to keep the discussion open, but he is not great about talking about feelings and he knows how strongly I feel.

Lately I have finished some big life accomplishments that were very stressful and time consuming. In the time I've had to take a deep breath I have begun to find myself thinking "maybe I would like to have a child....." I have not said anything to DH as I'm still really on the fence, but this thread has been very helpful in addressing some of the reasons I don't want kids. DH and I always said if we did have kids (say I got pg by accident) we would have at least 2 (no only child) and that we would have a stay-at-home parent. This seemed like the best, most perfect way to do it and we can be a bit perfectionist. This thread has helped me see that there is no way to "perfectly" raise your child and maybe I shouldn't try! I find that when I think of being a stay-at-home mom to 2 kids I think "No Way", but when I switch to thinking of being a working mom to an only child it feels right.

So, thank you very much to the posters on this thread for helping clarify some things for me! So as not to hi jack this thread I will probably start another with some questions of where I go from here. UNKNOWN - best of luck to you. These can be terribly hard decisions to make and they feel so monumentous. I hope this thread has helped you a little.

[beacooker]

I was thinking about this thread last night, and pondering why it is so common for parents to not be overly fond of other people's kids, but love their own with all their hearts, and for people who might be 'selfish' or self-centered (as I certainly was, and probably still am!) to not be that way at all with their own kids. And it occurred to me that once you have a child, your concept of 'you' expands to include the child, and you don't really see them as a separate person, and you don't really see their needs as separate from your own needs. When you look at other people's kids, you see an Other Person, who is possibly snot-nosed and whiny at that moment. When you look at your kid, who may also be snot-nosed and whiny at that moment, you see a part of yourself, and have an understanding of, and even a tenderness towards, their imperfections.

There are definitely many, many times you wish you didn't have to fulfill your child's needs right then and there, but much like some days you force yourself to go to the gym even though you don't want to, you know you that it is something you want in the long-run, so you certainly don't resent yourself for making yourself go to the gym, and few parents, I think, resent their kids for all they give to them.

Before I had kids, I worried so much about all the sacrifices that parents have to make, and pictured it being like a constant gritting your teeth, and thinking 'Well, I'll do this, but I don't want to'. The reality is NOTHING like that. If I look objectively at my life, I can see that I am sacrificing a lot for my kids, but I don't experience it that way on a day-to-day basis. Because I experience my kids' needs as the same as my own, I see myself as doing exactly what I want to do - there is nothing selfless about it.

Really, I think that, barring extreme circumstances like certain mental illness or severe chemical dependencies, any mom experiences this. I believe that in the vast majority of cases, even if a mom who never wanted kids at all found herself having one, she would experience the same thing. This is not to say that I think everyone should have kids, I just believe that when a woman does have children, this basic biology takes over, and you love them.

Everything I said here might have been said many times in the posts above, but for some reason the realization that I don't see my kids as being separate from me was new to me, and I thought might be helpful to Unknown or anyone else who is questioning their ability to be a good mom.

[Unknown]

Wow, I didn't realize this thread was so old - apparently this has been a struggle for me/us longer than I remembered. Anyway, I am bumping up this very old and long thread to post an update. I just reread all of the posts, and most everyone gave such thoughtful and heartfelt comments. I do appreciate them all.

This issue has been the elephant in the room for us for a long time now, and we reached a crossroad in 2008. My DH felt strongly that he would forever regret not having the opportunity to be a dad. And I suppose I became more ambivalent about the idea than I was before. Not willing to walk away from 17 years together and the love of my life (I have been with DH more than half my life now), I decided that any regret I *might* have about having a child would be outweighed by the regret I know he *will* have about not having one. Or at least trying to have one.

So, in 2009, we plan to try to expand our family to three. :eek: I know many will judge me for this decision - trust me, I've already done plenty enough of that myself. If not for DH, it is something I would never even consider. If something were to happen to DH, the idea of being a single parent terrifies and frightens me to no end. But I can't really focus on the "what ifs" - I have to take a leap of faith on this one, as many people do, and trust that everything will work out for the best.

I know that many many people on this BB know who I am, and that's fine. But please don't publicly "out" me just yet, either here or on Facebook. It's still very surreal for me to even talk about having a baby. Just the words coming out of my mouth make me feel like I've stepped out of my body and am watching and listening to a total stranger that looks just like me. :o

[donleyk]

Good luck and hugs to you and your DH.

[Robyn1007]

Hugs to you. I know this has been difficult for you but I trust that you wouldn't walk into this blindly and without truly have searching your heart. May it all turn out the way it is supposed to. :)

[MrsReber]

I forgot all about this thread- but wanted to wish you well. I know it's not something you're going into lightly. My kids are now 6 and 7 (the second one was a bit unplanned, but I just love him with all that I am). I am constantly overwhelmed by how much I love these little people and I don't regret one day with them. I always knew I'd have children- actually I thought I'd have more. DH and I clashed on the number of kids. I would've liked one more, but he was very happy with 2. So we have 2 and really, that's a handfull!

Good luck with your decision and I hope everything goes well. I have to say, being pregnant the first time was pretty cool. It's very interesting how our bodies can do what they need to do all on their own and even provide food for a baby. The second time, not so interesting :D ! I love kids, though I typically don't gush over other's kids. I hate constantly cleanind up after them, I hate badgering them to get ready for school each morning and to get in the bath and do homework each night. But I love, love, love, the hugs, the I love yous, the snuggles before bedtime, those sweet little faces as they drift off to sleep, and each magical moment they give to me. There is such joy in my daughter- she laughs as only a child can laugh- she'll dance in the aisles of Walmart while pressing on all the animated/musical holiday decorations (much to her brother's embarrassment!) Just pure joy, pure innocence, the stuff of childhood, the stuff that most of us lose as we get older. And now I have a chance to see it all again through their eyes.

I won't judge- it's a personal decision with very personal reasons. I pray that you don't regret it and that you find the same joy that I have found.

[LakeMartinGal]

Best of luck to you, whoever you are. If you have truly searched your heart, you are making the right decision.:)

[Chefzhat]

Best of luck. Embrace this new way of thinking and turn a welcoming face and open mind towards a new adventure, one that you and your DH will embark on together. Your decision is no small thing and I'm sure that your DH really appreciates it.

[misskitty100]

So, in 2009, we plan to try to expand our family to three.

I just wanted to say I am excited for you! ;)

[SusanMac]

I do remember this thread, b/c I'm one of those in the child-free decision category. But, I hope people don't judge you on this! Can't see why they would. If only all parents put this much thought and effort into this decision as you & DH, we'd all be better off.

Good luck! I'm sure you will enjoy the adventure. And it sounds like you have a great attitude -- you're right that you can't stress too much about what-if's that may never happen. You'll get through it all.

[TKay]

Best of luck to you. I have two sets of friends who both had children based primarily on the strong feelings of one of the spouses (the other spouse hadn't wanted children before marrying). Today? Both couples are very happy with their decisions. I wish you the best and hope you find as much happiness and joy as these couples have.

I don't judge you one bit, btw. I'm with Susan. It would be nice if more people gave parenting as much time and thought as you did.

[leightx]

This is soooo freaky, but I was just pondering bumping this thread this morning, to see if you had come to a decision, or felt any better about not making a decision. *insert twilight zone music here*

Unknown - I can only imagine that this must feel totally surreal, and a bit frightening, since I felt like that when I was pregnant and I knew that we wanted kids (although ours happened rather unexpectedly). I hope that you find that a child can bring you more joy than you could have ever imagined, and that your love will your DH will grow even deeper. You and DH are starting an incredible journey, and I wish you lots of luck, patience, and love. :)

[lindrusso]

Best of luck and may your journey be filled with unexpected joy. :)

[francophila]

you're embarking on a journey that will be, at turns, a long, exciting, confusing, thrilling and terrifying journey. how much better it must feel to have come to a decisive point. you cannot yet begin to imagine the intangible rewards that lie before you.

we live in a culture now where the script for parenting is limited only by one's imagination. you and DH will write yours as you go along the path, and you needn't burden yourself with concerns about others' judgments. clearly you are a deeply thoughtful and caring person, and i cannot imagine that this will turn out badly for you.

i give you both my warmest wishes!

[Molli526]

Good Luck and enjoy the ride! :)

[LA98]

Good thoughts and wishes going to you as you adjust to your decision and new way of thinking. As you said, it definitely is a leap of faith, as is marriage and lots of other things we do in life. I'm eternally grateful that I was able to see past my own personal fears and worries about being a mom to make the leap. Best decision I ever made. :)

[Canice]

Has anyone else noticed that often times the folks who are the most cautious, concerned, and hesitant...become the most smittin' parents you meet? :D

[Wendy w]

I was on "hiatus" from the CLBB when this was originally posted and just went through several (although not all) posts. There were lots of great answers and insights, which is one of the reasons why I love these boards so much. I have a feeling I know who the OP is (and even if I'm wrong), I look forward to being "eccentric" aunt to your little one. I've never had kids myself (never met the right person nor felt that I could live up to my standards) nor do I regret it. It has always been my belief that every kid needs an eccentric aunt (Auntie Mame, if you will) in their life and this is my role. I wish you all the best because I know what a tough decision it is for you. Hugs to you both.

[jellyben]

My wish for you is that any leftover doubt, apprehension, fear and concern will disappear when you meet your little one!

[KristiB]

Thanks for the update and good luck! :)

[Shugness]

As a new member of CLBB I was not around when this topic was originally posted, but I have enjoyed reading through it and hearing what everyone has had to say. I for one decided when I was a young teenager that I really didn't want to have kids and that feeling has only grown stronger as I've aged, now at 25 I am very confident that I made the right decision as being a Mother just wasn't meant for me. It's been a sigh of relief to read through this and see many of you decided the same thing. I've often been critized by family and friends for my decision, actually been labeled selfish. People act like I'm crazy or something is wrong with me. So I'm not alone.

My husband is older than me, he is 38, and he too didn't want kids when I met him and due to his age I seriously doubt that will change. But this topic really made me stop and wonder, what if he did suddenly change his mind and want kids? What would I do?

It's a crappy situation to be in because no matter what one person will look selfish. I'd look selfish for not giving my husband something he truly wanted, but then if I did he would look selfish for allowing me to do something for him that he knew I really didn't want to do. But you have to look beyond that, and what about the kid that's going to be involved? I could give my husband what he wants, a child all day long, but could I really give the child what it needs from a mother? I am a firm believer that I can do whatever I set my mind to, and if I wanted to I could be an excellent mother because I would make that effort. So taking that into consideration, I surely do not envy you for having been put in this situation.

Having said that, and looking back at what you previously posted, you're in your 30's and from my experience and what I see going on, I think that is the best time to have a kid. I know several couples who were married 8 plus years and in their 30's before they had kids, some of them not even sure if they wanted to. So in that respect your relationship is not new and you're both very comfortable with each other. Also, being in your 30's, I assume you are financially well off and have your heads on straight. That will go a long way in raising kids who are respectful and have good manners, and that goes a long way in raising what will become successful children who contribute positively to society.

So I too commend you for waiting this out and putting as much thought into having kids as you have. It shows you are a responsible adult and one who is ready to take this on. You may not have wanted kids a year and a half ago, but things change and obviously they have in your case, maybe you're more confident or comfortable with where you are in life, or whatever reasons that led you to make this decision, but it obviously was well thought out and you've covered all your bases to make sure you're doing this for the right reasons. I wish you the very best luck with this, and congrats! I think in the end you will probably think its the greatest thing you ever did. I sort of suspect that deep down maybe you've wanted children all along, but let your other worries overpower that.

[VAcooker]

You have put a great amount of thought into this---you seem like an incredibly thoughtful person...good luck to you and your DH...I wish you both much joy...

[Kristilyn1]

I know this topic has long been a hot one and while I didn't comment on the original thread...I've given it a lot of thought. A couple things I wanted to throw out there:

1. I think there absolutely is a such thing as someone who doesn't want kids and shouldn't.

2. It's hard for those of us with kids to articulate the feeling, but we are the ones who have lived on both sides of the fence. It's not the be all, end all but I do certainly think it's worth extra consideration.

3. Not feeling like you are maternal or "like" kids. Yes, there are people out there like this, absolutely, but I think for many people they get very hung up on how they think they need to be or how they need to feel. I too, find kids I just can't like, some people, kids included, are unlikeable. If you don't spend time around kids, of course you would feel uncomfortable. Especially, if you subscribed to some sort of idea that when you are around small children you need to gush, play with or somehow interact with them in some prescribed way. I work with kids and I am not someone who is gushy about kids. I've had to learn how to interact with kids and found a way to do so that does not compromise who I am. I don't talk baby talk. I don't play trucks with them. I listen to them, and guess what? They like it.

4. While the earliest years are extremely challenging in the sacrifice department..there is certainly NO reason why you can't raise children that share your interests or bring them along with you on things you enjoy as they age. I don't like to get up early, so as soon as my kids were able to pour a bowl of cereal...they knew that when they get up on weekends, they don't wake me up. Running takes precedence over play dates, etc. I'm happy to run you around to friend's houses, but I'm not going to sacrifice my workout to get you there right that minute. I did not stay home with my kids when they were really small and it's not a decision I've ever regretted. I like other people's babies in small doses (just like I like kittens and puppies!) but I find myself much more into my kids the older they get. I like the intereaction. The conversation. The ability to go on vacation and do activities together that we all actually enjoy...not ones I do because the kids want to do them....like play with trucks......twice that's come up, I really don't like to do that....in case you hadn't noticed. So, while it's impossible to say whether someone should or could change their mind about children after they have one.....I just wanted to point out that sometimes our preconceived notions are holding us back.

I stay away from gushy parenting magazines and overzealous mom groups as I found they never really reflected how I feel about my kids or motherhood. Since you've decided to possibly give it a try....look for people who share your parenting ideas (as you develop them) don't try to fit your square peg into their round hole, you'll end up unhappy and feeling inadequate. Trust me, I know.

Good luck!

Kristi

[mst]

I am glad you were able to make a decision that you feel good about.

I strongly encourage you to lurk on some of the parenting threads. It will give you an idea of what it is really like, but more importantly, you will learn a lot, so when it is your turn, you will have a better idea of what to do since you will have
"seen" friends go through it.

I loved belonging to moms groups (IRL). Those are still among my closest friends. When things got tough, I would bring up the issue at group, and tend to find that everyone else was going through it too. It made things feel better to talk to other people who "got" it. And, six months later, you really don't "get" it the same way. Plus, sometimes, it is just nice to get out of the house and talk. I found that my mom's groups were more for me than for the kids. (Now that DD is 3, it is more about them.)

The parenting threads here are amazing. I can ask anything, and get a bunch of great answers. I feel like everyone here is very kind, and non-competitive. We are all rooting for everyone.

Good luck, and I hope we can share your journey, even if we don't know it was you that was struggling with your decision. (This is coming out awkward- I mean that since you will post under your regular name.)

And, many thanks for the update. I am always so curious to see updates.

[miss piggy]

I would just like to say thank you to those that contributed to this thread. I was not a BB member at the time it started, and read the entire thing with great interest today. This is a topic that has been on my mind a lot lately and this thread made me feel much better about some things I have been wrestling with internally. Thank you!

[newtricks]

Unknown - I can only imagine that this must feel totally surreal, and a bit frightening, since I felt like that when I was pregnant and I knew that we wanted kids

Just what I was thinking when I read the update. :)

Unknown, best of luck to you and dh. I hope you'll come back and update us someday.

[Jewel]

I missed this thread the first time around, but have honestly just spent the last twenty minutes reading every post! :o I completely understand and empathize with nearly everything you have said.

I always used to feel that there was something wrong with me because I didn't feel those maternal urges. I never enjoyed babysitting, never wanted to play with other people's kids, and realized a long time ago that I put unrealistic expectations on young children. I'll see a two year old having a meltdown somewhere and I'll think to myself "He should know better than that..." but honestly, he shouldn't know better. He's two! :o I have a tendency to think of them as very short adults and get frustrated when they continue to act like children. Totally unrealistic, but at least it's something about myself that I recognize. I know my own limitations, and I know that I do not have the patience to be a parent. I can also be very jealous and very petulant if something or someone else has my husband's attention. I'm not sure I could handle a Daddy's Girl sitting on his lap and getting all the attention that used to belong to me. :o Again, honestly recognizing my own limitations and weaknesses, however smarmy they may be.

For all your worries and concerns, you could very easily be one of the best mothers any of us has ever known. Frankly, I also could possibly have been a fabulous mother, I have no way of knowing for sure! I just know that it wasn't worth it for ME to take that chance, and now that I'm 46 and DH is 48 it's sort of a non-issue anyway! We both had the same views on the subject when we met 11 years ago, and neither of us regret it to this day.

I wish you joy in this adventure...look at this as a way to identify other qualities in yourself that you might not have noticed or nurtured before. What you thought of before as a self-centered streak might be simply a strength of character that you can pass onto your child. That quality 'alone time' that you've always needed might teach your child to also crave his or her own time to journal, read, reflect, or simply become very comfortable in his own skin.

Whatever happens, just remember that family is the most important thing we have. Family can be two people, and it can be a dozen. Family is people who love each other, and it sounds like you have that part taken care of already. :) Good luck!

[leightx]

I've had to learn how to interact with kids and found a way to do so that does not compromise who I am. I don't talk baby talk. I don't play trucks with them. I listen to them, and guess what? They like it.

Kristi

I wanted to reiterate this, because it rings so true for me. I'm not one to sit on the floor and play house or Barbies or Legos with the kids - I just don't like it. I certainly don't fault those that do, but I think there is something to be said for encouraging kids to play by themselves, with just occasional minor input from a parent.

And I also prefer older kids - espeically after age 4. Before that it is a ton of work, and also a lot of reward. After that - not nearly as much work, and still a lot of reward. :) Actually, at every new stage with my first (DD), I kept thinking - "Oh, this is sooo much better. 4 months / 8 months / 2 years / 3 years / 4 years, etc is my new favorite age." And that hasn't stopped, although I'm sure it will around 13 or 14. ;)

[Jessica]

Kristilyn--You and I disagree on many topics but we finally found some common ground. I love my two little boys but I do NOT love playing with trucks.

Unknown--I've been on this BB a long time so I probably know you, and I have a slight idea who you are. I admire you for taking some time to wrestle with this decision. I have no idea if you've made the right choice, but I do want to offer one bit of advice: If you have a baby, and any time during the first year you think, "What have I done??? My life will never be sane again," that is totally normal. I wanted my children and felt so guilty about those feelings but having a baby is so overwhelming. I hope the future holds bright things for you and your DH, whatever happens.

[krhm]

Unknown--I've been on this BB a long time so I probably know you, and I have a slight idea who you are. I admire you for taking some time to wrestle with this decision. I have no idea if you've made the right choice, but I do want to offer one bit of advice: If you have a baby, and any time during the first year you think, "What have I done??? My life will never be sane again," that is totally normal. I wanted my children and felt so guilty about those feelings but having a baby is so overwhelming. I hope the future holds bright things for you and your DH, whatever happens.

I have to echo Jessica's post...this is SO true.

Brief background on where I'm coming from: I taught preschool and babysat throughout my teens and into college, and even majored in early childhood education for a little while in college. When I became unexpectedly pregnant with DD1, my family said, "well, we'd worry a lot more if it wasn't krhm. At least she knows what she's getting into."

But I didn't. Maybe I had more exeperience with kids, but honestly, it did not make me a better parent...possibly the opposite, since I had so many expectations about what it would be like. It was difficult letting go of those pre-conceived notions and that caused me a great amount of emotional stress.

I've been amazed to read all of the frank accounts here; parenting is so different for every one of us. Your experience with pregnancy and parenting will be entirely your own, and it is impossible to predict what your reactions will be.

[Goin' Coastal]

Last night I re-connected with someone with whom I was very good friends in our twenties. We went different directions and have had little contact ever since, other than annual Christmas cards. But now we are in our mid to late fifties, and we talked last night on the phone for about an hour. She said her biggest regret in life was never having children. By the time she realized it, it was too late to do anything about it. The older she got, the more she valued family connections.

[aggie94]

I pulled up this old thread today, to send the link to a friend who asked me some questions about my journey to becoming a parent. And I realized I never updated it to "out" myself. I know some/most who posted here already knew it was me, but for those left guessing, it was me. And I have to admit, I couldn't be happier than I am today. Iris is an amazing little girl, and I can't imagine my life without her.

5 months old already!!

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs114.ash2/39040_1535925475394_1152560242_1808811_2302715_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs275.snc4/40077_1545091424537_1152560242_1837416_4061795_n.j pg

Thanks again to everyone who shared with me on this very emotional and personal topic.

[TieKitty]

What a remarkable journey you have taken. Your daughter is absolutely beautiful. I'm very happy for you and DH. :)

[Robyncz]

I had forgotten all about this thread, but I still stand behind everything I wrote.

Thanks for the update, Eva. Iris is beautiful!

[swedish cook]

Congratulations! I am so happy for you and your DH. Iris is an amazing little girl.

I followed this thread but didn't have the courage to post until now. Early in my life I decided not to have children and told my DH so long before we married. Many years later I changed my mind - taking a leap of faith much like you did. However, I was convinced that my previous attitude would be punished: either I would be barren or the child would be born with a serious medical problem. In the end I was rewarded with a beautiful, healthy, happy daughter - and then another one 2 years later. To this day I can't believe my good fortune. The grand-daughters are now 5 years, 2 years, and 8 months.

Thank you for sharing your journey.

[Linda in MO]

Awwwww! What an absolute doll, Eva! I'm happy for you! :)

[lindrusso]

Even though I guessed it was you way back when, it still brought tears to my eyes to see the photos of Iris posted here. So glad it turned out for you. You were very brave to take such a leap of faith. :)

[Jessica]

Sniffle, sniffle, snuff...I am all teary-eyed now! Iris is gorgeous as always and I am glad you are happy in this new chapter.

[Terri_A]

Cutest baby ever (other than the weeone, of course!). She's also an easy going baby...bring her back to Houston, please, as I would like to steal her. :D

I don't know if I knew who you were when I posted on this thread or not, but I'm very glad things have turned out for the best for you....Congratulations on that sweet little girl!

[SusanMac]

I remember this thread, and never had any inkling that it was you!! But I'm very glad you've come out! Congratulations. She is simply adorable. I'm so happy that you're loving your new life as a mom!

[Kiwismommy]

What a wonderful life story! I am so happy for all of you,

Danita

[SDMomChef]

I am also very happy for you! What a long and complicated journey and glad that it has had such a wonderful ending!

P.S. Your DD is GORGEOUS! What a wonderful smile she has!!

[LakeMartinGal]

I had no idea it was you! But I'm very glad you're happy, and your daughter is absolutely beautiful! What a happy-looking girl!:D:cool: