Single parenthood

[wondering]

Sorry to use an alternate name to post, but I'd rather not use my own.

I'm wondering if there's anyone out there that made the decision to be a single parent (as in, divorce) when they had a very young, or relatively young child at home. If, after the fact, it seemed to be the right decision - or whether in retrospect, it would have been better to stay in a less than ideal marriage simply to have parenting help.

I know that this is quite a personal question, but I'm just trying to weigh my options and would like to hear others' experiences.

Thanks. :)

[Terri_A]

My ex and I separated when the weeone was 13 months old and formally divorced shortly after her 2nd birthday. So, I've basically been a single parent since she was 1. I wouldn't change a thing. Here's why - no matter how hard it can be to be a single parent, and it is VERY hard, nothing would be worse to me than modeling a bad relationship for my daughter. I did not / do not want her to think that THAT is what a marriage is supposed to be. What she gets now is two parents in different houses who are both happy rather than two parents in the same house who are miserable.

It's a really personal decision and you have to do what's best for your life. I highly recommend the book "Crazy Time" and also "The Good Divorce". I don't know the authors of either off the top of my head. Crazy Time will walk you through what to consider during a decision making time as well as a divorce itself. The Good Divorce gives GREAT strategies of how to stay a "family" even when parents are divorced.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you want more details.

[zwieback]

I'm not a single parent, but I think that if you've exhausted all your options to save the marriage (ie, talking with each other, counselling, etc.) and you still aren't happy, then being a single, happy parent is much better than being an unhappy, married one. Kids are quite perceptive and they will pick up that you aren't happy.

I'm presuming that you aren't in an abusive situation. If that is the case, there shouldn't be ANY question as to what to do and in that situation, being a single parent is much better than staying in the marriage.

I'm sorry you're having this dilemma.

[Robyn1007]

From a child of divorce point of view I would say don't stay in an unhappy marriage. It would have been miserable and now that I know both of my parents as adults I wonder what ever brought them together. I would rather have a single mom struggling to make ends meet (which was the case) than live in a 2 parent home with angry, fighting parents with no guarantees for a better financial life. Feel free to ask me more specific questions. :)

[Laura]

While I did not make the choice, my ex and I separated when DD was 2 and DS was 1 month. We reconciled twice and he moved out for good when DS was 2.5 and DD was not quite 5.

I think the first question to have to ask yourself is what have you done to fix your marriage. You ask about staying in a marriage that is less than ideal. I know this may sound harsh, but many marriages are less than ideal over periods of time, and to me, that is not a reason to consider divorce. I think my marriage to my ex could have been saved, but he really didn't want to try. We had grown apart, but it was not an unhealthy environment.

Being a single parent is really, really, really hard. There is no other way to say it. I have great kids, but when you add all the other things that can make parenting a wonderful, but extraordinarily tiring adventure, being on your own makes it even more difficult. You can do it, but it is tough. Even in dropping my DD at college, I just wished I wasn't going through it alone. No, I don't want to be back with my ex, I just didn't want to be doing it alone.

I have maintained a good relationship with my ex and I think that is key in helping your children through the process of divorce. I think my kids have adjusted pretty well, it is a very traumatic experience for them.

I am sorry you are going through this.

[Cookin4Love]

I think it depends a great deal on what a "less than ideal marriage" entails. Some marriage problems can be fixed--with effort, time, and commitment. Some can't. I don't believe in falling in and out of love; I believe love is something you choose. BUT I left a marriage when my children were young because of abuse. I would never stay in a marriage that was going to model destructive relationships. In that case, leaving was not only the best choice--it was a no brainer. Being a single parent was hard, and making the decision to let another man into my life--and thereby my childrens' lives--a few years later was even harder. However, leaving that marriage left me with the possibility of bringing a great father and role model into my children's lives, and gave me the gift of a husband who cherishes me.

With that said, have their been times in the past 23 years the new marriage was rocky? You betcha. There were times I didn't feel love, and didn't even like my DH. But they were just that--periods of time--phases. We worked through them, and had a strong family to model for our kids.

I don't know what your situation is, and as has already been said, what you do is a personal decision. Being a single parent can sometimes be preferable to exposing a child to the influences of a truly bad marriage. However, if the marriage is fixable (and only you can define that for yourself), and there is no abusive/destructive/highly dysfunctional behavior being modeled for your child, it might be worth giving it some time.

And that opinion is worth as much as the paper it's printed on. :)

[wondering]

Sorry... "less than ideal" means that the husband is a bit of a bully, is a bit emotionally abusive. All is well as long as I don't disagree with him or want something that he doesn't. :rolleyes: I've suggested counseling for us before and his response has always been "this is who I am, if you don't like it, get out, and by the way, be prepared for a he** of a custody battle." I've started seeing a marriage counselor for myself, in hopes of convincing him to come one day, but I haven't mentioned it to him yet. I feel like I need to have all the information I can have before I mention it again, because if he doesn't want to try counseling, then that may mean that I need to more seriously consider getting out. I am quite nervous at maybe going through a custody battle because again, he is mean and a bully on his worst days. At other times, he can be decent.

It's all very hard to decipher from within. I've never been one to want to give up on something, and I always swore that I'd never give up on a marriage without a fight. Plus, a part of me feels like it's a little silly to want a divorce just because my husband is mean sometimes. But then the other part of me says that I don't want my child to grow up thinking that this is how men should treat women...

Sorry. Way too personal, I know. :o

[Cookin4Love]

In the situation you describe, single parenthood is a great option. See an attorney before you leave the marriage and have things in place to protect you and your child. Remember, thousands of women become single parents every year, and manage it successfully. Many of them, I'm sure, are not as strong, resourceful, and intelligent as you. It will be hard, but you can get through it.

[testkitchen45]

In the situation you describe, single parenthood is a great option. See an attorney before you leave the marriage and have things in place to protect you and your child.

I can't speak from personal experience, but I can tell you that with two relatives who've gone through divorces, in both cases, they were shocked to find that b4 the divorce was announced, they were either cleaned out financially or severely hurt financially. So, I'd say that if you're considering leaving a mean-spirited guy who doesn't want to improve his marriage/family, you might play nice for as long as it takes you to protect your financial interests b4 mentioning divorce. All the best to you.

[Laura]

Wondering -- okay essentially ignore parts of my post. You are in a MUCH different situation than I was. Single parenting is hard, and to be honest, I think it could be harder for you because of your husband's attitude. That said, that does not seem like a healthy environment where your husband has kind of a "take it or leave it" attitude. ((((Wondering))))

[DmOrtega]

... Plus, a part of me feels like it's a little silly to want a divorce just because my husband is mean sometimes. But then the other part of me says that I don't want my child to grow up thinking that this is how men should treat women...

...

As I read this, I was brought back to what I saw between them over the years. They both have been really, really nice and decent people. However, they came from a time where men and women's roles were very different then they are today.

It would make me mad to see how he could be mean to her and she would drop her head and walk away. At other times they were the best of freinds. He was never over the edge, just wanted things his way. I can't tell you how many times he talked of walking out yet never did.

I see this behavior from my dh from time to time and get really mad. Do I get mad enough for divorce? Yes at times, but I wait it out because for the majority of the time, life is good. I don't think that I would do this if the majority of the time was bad. My kids see us argueing and playing. They realize that people are different everywhere and the dynamics of any relationship is not written in stone.

I guess that is the trade off. None of us are perfect and I have been known to be mean myself. Life is a series of ups and downs and we cannot maintain a perfect attitude every moment. I know that my dh has had his moments of questioning. Would divorce change this? No. Life would still be a series of ups and downs, either alone or with someone different.

In the final years of my df's life, he and my dm had the most loving relationship that I have ever seen. It was very hard and stressful to watch him hurting and both of them scared. When he was mean, I saw a broken man who was hurting. When he was himself, I saw a proud and grateful man.

I'm not sure how this may help you except to say that life isn't great every moment.

[wondering]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the responses so far. I just wish my situation was more clear-cut - as in, husband having an affair or being physically abusive. The emotional abuse varies in its frequency and when he's "behaving" I tend to forget how unhappy I am at times. It was especially worse when I'd just had our child. Husband disapproved of breastfeeding, thought I was doing it wrong, etc. He threatened to call Social Services on me if I didn't "figure it out." (Meanwhile the baby was flourishing, fat and happy). He offered virtually no help when the baby was going through the roughest part of colic, yelling at me when I asked for help, wanting to know what was so hard about taking care of a baby, what was my problem, etc. (Meanwhile, he's never home and spends minimal time with the baby). All I heard from him the first two months after our baby was born, was "why isn't the house clean? what do you do all day?" When I get upset with him for saying these things, he calls me "crazy." When I don't do something the way he would, I have "no common sense." When I was tired throughout the pregnancy and tried to spend time on the couch resting, I was "lazy" - I should have been cleaning or doing something "productive."

And it's not just me he does this to - he does it to his parents, his siblings and employees.

I'm sorry to vent, but it really isn't clear to me how to feel about things. I know that having a child is very stressful, but I would hope that most people survive it without their spouses threatening to divorce them and take their child (this was his threat throughout my pregnancy and when the baby was first born), or report them to Social Services. I know that marriage is hard, but I just don't know the difference between when it's hard and when it's time to get out.

:(

[LaraW]

Wondering, I don't have any advice for you but just want to send some hugs. I think that you have received some good advice. Please take care of yourself and the baby. (((hugs)))

[lbd]

(((wondering))) I know you're venting and am glad that you can do that here. I'm concerned about the more detailed instances of emotional abuse you've cited. It may be hard for someone who's never been pregnant to understand how draining it can be, but threatening to call social services on you? yelling at you for needing help? refusing to care for his own child? These are not reasonable or excusable actions in my book. Especially since they're coming from someone who's supposed to be on your side and supportive of you and both your children. Your original question was about becoming a single parent but it sounds like you already are in a lot of ways.

[Deechef]

Firstly, I am so sorry you are struggling with this issue. It doesn't make your day to day life much fun. You have gotten a lot of good advice.

From my perspective.....I stayed in an emotionally abusive (not all the time) marriage for a long time because my kids were young - not as young as yours. My husband finally left me. I truly wish I had the strength to leave earlier as the sense of freedom I felt when he left was a blessing. It was very difficult and I still had a 14yo troubled son to deal with. It took me at least a year to get myself up and running again but I am so much happier now. My X and I have a decent relationship today. I hope your husband joins you in counseling as there may be hope.

Good luck

[newtricks]

(((wondering))) I'm not an expert but what you're experiencing sounds like pretty severe emotional abuse. You don't deserve to be treated that way. And your child does not deserve to grow up thinking it's ok to treat people or be treated that way.

I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through.

[hollysmom]

Whose side would HIS parents be on? They might be some of your strongest allies.

Get your financial house in order - start a bank account - establish credit in your name - get copies of the important house papers. In other words, get prepared to leave.

Contact a women's shelter - for names of a good barracuda attorney.

Document all that he says. Try to get it on tape if possible (learn to use the memo part of your cell phone in your pocket without looking).

Call Social Services yourself and ask for advice - establish a file with them as the 'good parent' so that if he calls - then you have a good history with them.

It would help if we knew what town you were in because someone here could probably help you in person - and maybe give you a place to stay.

SSM

[Melman]

You've gotten some excellent comments. I particularly like the one's just posted by Hollysmom.

My son was 3 when my ex and I separated. It was not anything close to the verbally abusive comments you've received. (The comments about calling social services when you were tackling the early stages of breastfeeding were incredible!)

I would add that if there's any chance you're even considering a separation/divorce, you want to be prepared. Do everything that Hollysmom mentioned....and if you can actually afford to pick a good lawyer, go ahead and talk to that person. He/she will give you other suggestions.

As far as raising a child alone, I did it and survived. No, it wasn't easy, but I was stubborn and managed to take care of everything. I had an excellent support group around me...my whole family is here and my son was the only grandchild for a long time. When I started back to school, there was always someone around to babysit. The "rest of the story" is that my son graduated from college last year, got married a few months ago, has a great job, and everything has turned out pretty much the way I always hoped.

If you end up separated/divorced, there is one thing that you'll really need to try to do. You and your husband need to come to the agreement that you both brought your child into the world together...and regardless of whether you're living together, you BOTH have the responsibility to raise your child in the best way possible. I've seen entirely too many times when the exes are in a nasty "it's my turn" situation. You always have to keep the child's well-being first in every situation. I was very fortunate that my ex and I came to that conclusion quickly. My son spent time with his dad...but his dad and I both had lots of flexibility about visitation, etc., especially as my son became involved in sports and other activities.

No, being a single mom isn't easy...but it is absolutely doable! Good luck with your decisions!!!

[MrsReber]

Wondering, my sister is going through a rough time because of this same thing. She left her husband about 18 months ago. She first wanted to leave him 6 years ago. She told him they should go for counseling. He told her no and figured that SHE was the problem. He berated her, told her that she wasn't attractive, she was fat, she was only "eye candy for.." (pick your own minority group). Plus he drinks a lot and is very irresponsible and hands off with their 2 children. When my sister told him she was leaving, he called me and my father to tell us that my sister had gone over the edge and was having a "bipolar episode." He turned all their neighbors against her as well, saying she was in need of medication and Lord knows what else. She learned some very hard lessons in true friendship.

She figured she would get a hefty child support payment each month. That never happened as the share custoday, and, financially, things went very wrong for her.

In spite of it all, she is much happier not having to live with someone who makes her feel like dirt. She is slowly re-building her life and her self esteem. I just wish she had sole custody of her kids- her son is starting to behave like her ex.

I agree with the advice above- please, please, please, plan well so you are not out on the street. Make sure you are in a position to take care of that child on your own. Your ex may be all talk about a custody battle. My sister's ex keeps threatening her, but he never takes action. He doesn't even really want custody of the kids, he just doesn't want to pay a lousy $200 in child support each month.

But again, she wouldn't change a thing. Her only regrets are that she didn't plan better and that she wasted so much time with him in the first place. Her kids knew she was unhappy. She didn't even have to tell them why she was leaving. Her DD actually told her because she knew how unhappy she was.

Good luck to you. That's a tough decision to make- are you happier with him or without him? Do you feel better when he's not around? Or do you think you can work with him to fix things. Relationships don't just happen- you have to work at them. A baby is a major change, but as was said, he should be supportive, not critical of your every move.

[sparrowgrass]

Nobody deserves to be treated that way. Nobody.

Get your ducks in a row, like Hollysmom said--and if you don't have a job now, get one.

I spent 25 years, pretty much, being miserable and putting my kids thru misery, because I kept hoping it would get better, and because I was afraid I couldn't make it on my own. What a waste of my life.

Unless BOTH of you are committed to making the relationship work, you are fighting a losing battle. You can't hold up the whole marriage all by your self.

I am sure hugs and good thoughts from a stranger are pretty worthless, but I am sending them your way, anyhow. Take care of yourself, and take care of your little one.

[Romandub]

My ex and I separated when DS was 3 mos. old. I was devastated. In our case, DH was not abusive, but he just didn't come home A LOT! He was out partying with friends, women, etc. (although I didn't really know about the women part until later.) Several years after our divorce, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and that explained a lot of his behaviors. I was terribly unhappy in the marriage but would not have asked for the divorce to save my life (attribute it to never having failed at anything up to that point and a strong Catholic upbringing.) My ex moved out "temporarily" on New Year's weekend and almost two years later, we finally divorced--again against my wishes.

I was heartbroken that my baby would not have the Norman Rockwell family. However, looking back now 20 years later, I am so glad we divorced. My ex' life has continued to be difficult due to his bipolar, and my life has been relatively blessed and easy. As everyone else has said, parenting is hard; single parenting is harder. But if you are relatively stable financially (don't underestimate the importance of that aspect of it!) and if you have a support system (friends, family, neighbors) that can help out with the kiddo it is very manageable.

When our divorce became inevitable, ex and I saw a child psychologist about how to structure custody so that our divorce would have minimal impact on our son. The psychologist said something I've never forgotten. She said "You can divorce each other as parents, but not as spouses. If you just remember that when you are really angry at each other, it will make a huge difference." I am proud to say that we both heeded that advice, and DS is now a happy 20 year old.

Obviously, no divorce is best, but if divorce is inevitable, I think in some ways, a divorce when kids are young is easier on them than when they are older.

Whatever you decide, hang in there and come back often for support. As you can see, many of us have been through what you are going through and come out happy and content on the other side!

[wondering]

I just wanted to thank you all for each and every kindness, advice and hug. :) I've been tearing up reading each response.

I guess I just need to hear that Husband's responses to things are not "normal" as far as "normal" marital difficulties and that others have done it and survived.

I actually did consult a divorce attorney after the Social Services threat. I'd heard so many times that he wanted to divorce me and take our child, that the Social Services threat freaked me out enough to want to know what would really happen. I met with the lawyer and she assured me that I live in a mother-friendly state, and that while she couldn't promise anything, she didn't see any reason why, with our child being so young (6 weeks old at that point), I wouldn't be granted custody (barring me becoming incarcerated or an IV drug user). She also briefly discussed likely financial outcomes about property division, that he would likely have to pay for daycare as well as some support, and that he wouldn't be able to touch the assets that I came into the marriage with.

So financially I should be okay. Husband has always been paranoid that I would divorce him and take all his money :rolleyes: so we have separate accounts for everything. I work full time and have sufficient money in savings that I should be fine.

Support wise I'm not so strong. I moved to a new state with Husband and since living here, we've essentially become isolated. Husband doesn't like any of the people that I've brought home as friends, and he has made zero friends of his own (in the 4 years we've lived here), so it has been difficult to make or maintain friendships. Husband works all the time and doesn't like to go out, and I didn't like going out without him because I felt guilty, so... I do have a few people I could count on down here, though, so that's something. Family-wise I'm pretty alone, though, as for reasons too long to go into here, they're not involved in my life. I suppose I can try harder to connect with some of the other moms at my little one's daycare, though, and just keep trying in general to make friends.

I suppose it's doable if I have to, though. Looking back, I survived a lot of difficult times, on my own with no help, with the little one so far - prematurity, cluster feeding, acid reflux, COLIC, sleep issues, etc. and I'm still kicking.

Reading everyone's stories have been so helpful.

[beacooker]

I suppose it's doable if I have to, though. Looking back, I survived a lot of difficult times, on my own with no help, with the little one so far - prematurity, cluster feeding, acid reflux, COLIC, sleep issues, etc. and I'm still kicking.


Yes, it sounds like you have been through a lot, and you are obviously a very strong woman and a great mother. If divorce is what you need to do, you will be strong enough to handle single-motherhood.

And I will reiterate that the things your DH is saying to you are very much not normal. From your initial 2 posts, my inclination was to think that you would be better off trying to work things out. But after reading your 3rd post, it really sounds like your DH is being very abusive.

Good luck and hugs.

[MrsReber]

I guess I just need to hear that Husband's responses to things are not "normal" as far as "normal" marital difficulties and that others have done it and survived.



This was the trap my sister fell into. She thought that her marriage was normal and life was supposed to be like that. We are the children of divorced parents so what the heck do we know about normal relationships?? Yes, she thought it was normal that he talked to her the way he did- and he was careful to only do it at home so no one would know the hell she was living in. He made everyone believe that she was the nasty one. I only wish she said something sooner to let us all know. But again, she thought it was normal, just as you do. It's not. You should not have to live like that.

I'm glad you have savings and a good job. Although an attorney can give you advice at this point, things don't always turn out as they say.

[Terri_A]

I just wanted to let you know that the weeone and I are the only family that I have in Houston. I have friends, but no family to lean on. It would be nice to have more help, but I manage just fine. So, I just wanted you to know that it's doable without family nearby too!

Hang in there!

[katygirl]

My husband's parents stayed together until he was in college "for him" he wishes so much they didn't. I know he say a lot of fighting, mostly verbal some physical. They didn't do him ANY favors.....

Hugs and thoughts go your way, whatever your decision may be.

You are right though about your child thinking it's okay to be yelled at/treated wrong. I don't know what sex child you have but I would worry if it's a girl, she will think that that's how men should talk to you, if you have a boy, I would worry that he will now treat a woman that way, some day.

[ljt2r]

I am the child of a marriage that was VERY rocky at times but has ultimately endured, much to everyone's happiness. I also have my own marriage which can be rockyish at times (nothing like my parents), with both of us being mean during times of stress, etc. Given that I was gearing up to be the voice of trying more until I got to your description of your DH's behavior after your baby was born. No that is not normal, that is awful. I have no experience with divorce (other than some friends from childhood who were very relieved when their fighting parents finally divorced), I think you have gotten good advice here, but I just wanted to pipe up and assure you (along with everyone else) that having a spouse who is not interested in childcare and who threatens to call social services on you is not normal. It is also not a healthy situation for your child. Imagine if he continues to use that threat when your baby is old enough to understand it? :eek: :(

I am sorry that you are going through this.

Laura

[Havana Brown]

I think it was Dear Abby who said to ask yourself "are you better off with him or without him? I'm definitely better off without him. My ex and I divorced when the kid was 2. I've been a single mom for 13 years. I love it. I don't have problems with the kid saying "well dad said I could." Whatever I say goes!

I got out of a terrible marriage. I knew I could take it, but I didn't want my son growing up that way. I didn't want him to think that's how you treat women and didn't want him to model his relationships from this. I gotta tell ya, he's the sweetest, nicest boy, and he's the best boyfriend to any girl. He pays for everything, opens doors, etc. (Last year he invited a girl to homecoming. She said yes, but at the last minute she told him she didn't want to go with him [crazy girl!]. Her mom told her she had to give him the money he paid for her ticket. My son refused, saying he had invited her so she should keep the ticket.

This is not something you do for yourself, you have to think of your kids.

[wondering]

You all have been so wonderful.

I guess the part I've been struggling with the most has to do with Husband and our child. The little one is still very young (under 6 months) and lately Husband has been trying to spend more time with the little one - my theory is that he's sensed something's wrong. As a result it's almost a fight on the weekends (Husband travels during the week) to get to see my own child as Husband will literally pull the little one out of my hands in order to play with him. I can see how much he loves the baby and I feel guilty wanting to take the child from him. Of course the baby is adorable and cute and fun at this stage, so of course Husband wants time with him. My fear has to do with once the little one becomes more opinionated and difficult - how Husband will speak to the child then. Or, God forbid, once separation anxiety stage hits. Several people have remarked on the jealousy that oozes from Husband towards me about the baby - that the baby seems to prefer to be held by me, when held by someone else, is always looking for me, etc. This is perfectly natural behaviors, but Husband is jealous nonetheless.

I'm just worried about making the wrong decision, I suppose. Thank you so much for allowing me to have a place to process this. I've been so muddled up in this for so long that it's hard to see it clearly from the inside. :o

[Clover]

And it's not just me he does this to - he does it to his parents, his siblings and employees.(

My fear has to do with once the little one becomes more opinionated and difficult - how Husband will speak to the child then.
Unfortunately, when he says, "This is who I am," it looks like he's telling you the truth. If he treats everyone this way--everyone with whom he can get away with it, that is--why won't he treat your child the same way as soon as he is old enough to "disagree with him or want something he doesn't"?

[Jessica]

No one deserves to be treated this way, and the lack of physical abuse does not mean you are not being abused.

My mother walked out on my dad with three kids under the age of 7. He was physically and emotionally abusive to her. It was the best thing she could have done for us and although it was a very rocky childhood, it was better than watching my dad scream at my mom and hit her. Sometimes the choice is between two things that aren't so great and you have to go with the least bad choice.

[generic]

(((wondering))) You must be feeling really isolated right now. :( Good thing you have the BB supporters!

My mom left my father with 4 girls in tow, ages 2 1/2 through 9 years! There was physical abuse as well as other things too ugly to mention here. We had to be in "hiding" temporarily at a friend's home, until he got used to the idea that she'd left him. I'm the youngest, and when I was growing up people always said we came from a "broken home." As I got older and learned more about my father, I started telling people my home would have been a lot more "broken" if my parents had stayed married!
My mom was like you, no family around to be supportive (they had basically disowned her). With all the struggles of raising 4 children alone, the hardest part for her was being poor all the time, and always wondering how she was going to barely get by and feed her children. Since you say you'll be okay financially, I can't see any reason for you to stay, dear!
You've received some great advice here, and you truly do deserve better. You are resourceful and will find that inner strength again as you strike out on your own.

[LHBryan]

(((wondering)))

No real advice or experiences to share, but I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you. I have a new baby at home, so I know how difficult--and utterly draining--caring for a newborn can be and I haven't even faced all of issues you mentioned. Our marriage has really been tested over the past couple of months (new baby, moving into a new house, etc.), and we have had some intense bickering at times. But, that said, your H's responses to the stress of pregnancy and a new baby are not "normal" IMHO. I would be very concerned about how his behavior and verbal abuse will evolve over time and how it will affect your child.

It seems terribly unfair that H is treating you this way and not being a supportive partner. You are obviously a very loving, capable mother. I am just so sorry you're dealing with this situation. I wish there were something I could do to help. (())

-Laura

[wondering]

I just wanted to say again, THANK YOU, for all the kindnesses and replies. As someone said, I am pretty isolated here, so having the BB for support means a lot. :)

I mentioned counseling again this week to Husband and was shot down again. I'll keep trying, but it does help to know that others have gone through this and come out the other side doing okay.

:)

[wondering]

I promise, I'll shut up after this. I just need one last dose of perspective after a very rough weekend.

I asked Husband about counseling this week (he travels during the week and is only home, limited amounts, on the weekend) and he said no, I'm the one with the chip on my shoulder, it's not anything he'd consider.

I broached the subject again yesterday. He blew me off and ignored me. Later on, he snapped at me and it came up again. [Background: Husband goes for a 5 mile run every Sunday, in the blazing heat. Comes home nearly drenched and proceeds to stay in his tank top and shorts for the remainder of the day, smelling like dried sweat and BO. He plays with the baby all day, smelling like this, and the baby (who has sponge-like qualities) absorbs the odor and smells just as bad. Husband even continues to pick the baby up after his evening bath, thereby obliterating the sweet, clean baby smell. ] He reached for the baby yesterday and I asked him not to, to change his shirt or something before he picked him up, because he always makes the baby smell funky. Husband then asked if I was going to be a b**** for the rest of the weekend. I said, this is why we need marriage counseling, because this is how we relate. His response was that I'm just a b**** and if I could stop being one we'd be fine.

I broached the subject again later on, and Husband again insisted that he will not go to marriage counseling, the problem is me, counseling would do nothing for him, and that if we need to separate, that's fine with him. He then said something about how this would be easier and cheaper to settle out of court than in court. (??) I even played the baby card, saying that this shows how much he cares about his baby, that he's not willing to work to save the marriage. His response is that he'd do anything for his child, but this is my problem, I'm just crazy, need to be evaluated for something.

These are not "normal" responses to a wife suggesting marriage counseling, right? I know I need to be cautious and move slowly, continuing to look for someplace to live and all that, but still... does anyone see any sign that I should continue to try to suggest counseling? Should I have presented things differently? Not gotten upset?

I don't know what "normal" is, so I don't know how couples usually go about negotiating before they get into counseling.

Okay, I'll shut up now. :o

[Laura]

My best advice to you right now is to contact an attorney. Not for the purposes of filing, but just finding out what the laws are in your state.

IMO, it seems that your husband is not interested in spending the effort to work on your marriage. Perhaps separation will make him want to change, but that does not appear to be the case. I know when I was going through this with my ex, it was somewhat similar. He was not verbally abusive, he simply did not want to be married, and really, no amount of counseling was going to change that.

My son was younger than your child when we first separated, so I do know what you are going through. If you want to PM me, please feel free.

ETA - I didn't really answer your first question. I think your approach was fine. If someone is calling you a b!tch, you have a right to be upset.

(((wondering)))

[MrsReber]

This is not "normal" by any means! I agree with what Laura says- find out what the laws are and what your rights are. You should not have to stay together for the sake of your child and you don't want your child to grow up with such a warped sense of marriage, anyway.

It all sounds so sad. I'm sorry that you have to go through this with someone who is less than willing to be a true partner in a marriage. DO NOT let him let you think for one second that the problem is all you. I know women who have fallen into that trap and stayes for years, thinking they were horrible people. This is not your fault at all.

[LHBryan]

((wondering))

No, these are not "normal" responses. It sounds like your husband has a pretty nasty temperament, and yes that's become your problem b/c you have to live with it and tiptoe around it! (And, for the record, that sweaty body issue would really bother me too.) Ugh. I'm so, so sorry. I don't know how you could have handled it differently. It must make your weekends h*ll, when it should be a time when you both enjoy your baby and some time off work.

I admire you so much for continuing to encourage counseling. It sounds like you've put forth tons of effort only to be shot down and dismissed in a very hurtful way. I probably would have given up by now. With all that time traveling, you'd think he'd spend just a few moments pondering your wedding vows and possibly have a change in heart. I do have a question for you. Are there any times at all when he's in a loving, positive mood toward you? Not just toward the baby, but toward you as his wife? Like when he comes home from being out of town? If so, I'm wondering if he would be at all open for a heart to heart. My Mom has a marriage counseling background and is always talking about the importance of "I talk," rather than "You talk" in these situations as a way of discussing serious problems, especially when the other party doesn't want to admit any blame or wrongdoing. Much easier said than done, I know. But I'm just wondering if you gently discuss how you feel--at a low-key time when you're not in the midst of a heated argument--,and he's still an a**, then you know he'll never, ever budge. And someone who won't give even a centimeter is not someone you want as your partner in life. I'm just thinking out loud here about what I might do in this situation, so bear with me.... Maybe telling him that even if it *were* 100% your (wondering's) problem (and I'm DEFINITELY not saying it is), he's your husband and he should be willing to be there for you and help you by joining you at counseling to work through the issues. I mean, if one of you had a serious physical, medical situation arise, would you just go through it alone? (If he's not the problem, then why's he so afraid of discussing your marriage with a counselor?!)

You've gotten great advice about the lawyer, etc. I would suggest continuing to get all your ducks in a row. Perhaps speaking with a counselor at a local women's shelter would help you make sure you're lining things up in the best possible way to protect your rights as a mother. There's an excellent one here who's promotional materials focus on the fact that emotional abuse is still very much abuse. And meanwhile, as you're making these preparations, I would try my best to keep the focus at home on the baby, how cute the baby is, and all the wonderful things he/she is accomplishing. Keep a low profile as "wife," avoid all button pushing, and tread lightly on relating to Husband in other way than mother of baby b/c it sounds like he's completely irrational and any argument or criticism will just add fuel to the fire and, in his screwed up mind, reinforce his belief that you're b*tchy or crazy. You never know what he could construe as ammunition should you end up in court.:mad:

-Laura

[generic]

I promise, I'll shut up after this. I just need one last dose of perspective after a very rough weekend.

Okay, I'll shut up now. :oI hope you don't really feel like you need to shut up. :( This is a good place for you to vent and ask for advice and support. Someone here is always willing to "listen" and share.

This whole "hygiene takes a holiday" thing looks to me like just another way he's unwilling to show respect for you. I mean, how hard would it be to jump in the shower, soap down, and put on clean clothes. That is NOT asking too much. That's just basic civilized behavior. UGH! I wouldn't even want him touching the furniture before showering! :eek: Let alone the baby.

Treating you as if YOU are the only problem is classic behavior of an abuser. Do you remember jmarie's threads about her separation and how he constantly was telling her she was CRAZY? The more he tells you it's all your fault, the more you start wondering if maybe he's right, maybe you're not trying hard enough, maybe you're asking too much, etc. Let me assure you, you are NOT asking too much. Asking someone to behave as an adult in an adult relationship does not constitute b!tchhood. Part of being a grownup is bringing up issues that need to be discussed, not stuffing them down for fear of being called names.

I've never been married, but I would be really wary of settling out of court. Especially with the custody battle threats he has hurled at you, and his continuing uncooperative attitude. At least see a good lawyer who can help you watch out for all the land mines.