Hillary Clinton

[PAMMELA]

Wow, it seems like she's aged overnight! Not knocking her or anything, I just didn't realize! Unless this is just NOT a good picture!



http://stb.msn.com/i/C0/55F1AF1739F3BAA5EEA5AB9722C4D8.jpg

[Chefzhat]

She looks like Ma Kettle. :eek: :D Whatev.

Let it be known here and now that I detest that woman, and sincerely hope that she doesn't become President.

But if she does, perhaps her antics in the oval orifice will include more sexual pleasure activities for us women, instead of an increase in blowjobs for men. :D

This will be the one and only thing I say about Hideous Hillary.

Maybe.

:D :D :D

[Robyn1007]

But if she does, perhaps her antics in the oval orifice will include more sexual pleasure activities for us women, instead of an increase in blowjobs for men. :D



ROFLMAO! I needed that! :D

[lindrusso]

ROFLMAO!

Me too! Let's hear it for equal time. ;) :D Um, okay, not really......but.....

She may not have aged well, but that looks like an unusually bad photo.

[Laura]

Not a Clinton fan either, but most of the unflattering pictures I have seen of her seem to be from Republican or maybe just anti-Hillary sites. That doesn't seem to be the case here. FWIW, I think it might be that she doesn't photograph well; she doesn't look as old when I have seen TV clips of her.

[Chefzhat]

Not a Clinton fan either, but most of the unflattering pictures I have seen of her seem to be from Republican or maybe just anti-Hillary sites. That doesn't seem to be the case here. FWIW, I think it might be that she doesn't photograph well; she doesn't look as old when I have seen TV clips of her.

I saw her on Hardball last week and she had been immaculately made up as well as newly botoxed (or threaded, can't decide). So, yeah - I'd say that the picture shown here is a particularly bad one.

Debie

[bobmark226]

You know, women here are frequently complaining about the double standard, how women are judged on their looks, or dissed for their weight, where men aren't. So here are the women of CLBB, not dissing Joe Biden, or John McCain (aka The White Mouse), or jowly Fred Thompson...or even talking about Rudy taking calls from "Judith" during a speech, but about a woman's unflattering appearance.

Go figger.

Kind of supports the theory that no one dislikes women more than other women.

Oh, and Debie, it's also wrong to be immaculately made up? There's just no winning, is there?

Bob

[Chefzhat]

You know, women are always complaining about the double standard, how women are judged on their looks, or dissed for their weight, where men aren't. So here are the women of CLBB, not dissing Joe Biden, or John McCain (aka The White Mouse), or jowly Fred Thompson...or even talking about Rudy taking calls from "Judith" during a speech, but about a woman's unflattering appearance.

Go figger.

Bob
Confoosin', ain't it? :D :D

[tidee]

bob, deb, et al. i suggest a 'big tent' platform where there is equal opportunity sex for all. lol.

maybe she's going for the knowledgable, experienced look...

[Chefzhat]

Well, geez Bob - you edit before I can even reply to your original post! :D

There's nothing wrong with being immaculatly made up. I was making a comparison with her Hardball appearance to the photo posted.

Unclench, dearie. LIfe's more fun that way. :D

[beacooker]

talking about Rudy taking calls from "Judith" during a speech,

Yeah, what the heck was up with that?? I would guess it was a planned thing, but I can't for the life of me think of why someone would plan such a dumb thing. Trying to play the part of devoted DH, I guess?

[Minky]

Trying to play the part of devoted DH, I guess?

he he, and his success rate on that has been just fabulous so far;)

Back OT, I've seen Hillary on TV in the last couple of days, and she doesn't look nearly as bad as in that photo. And I thought I was unphotogenic!


Sheila

[PAMMELA]

Kind of supports the theory that no one dislikes women more than other women.


Bob


I don't support that theory at all. I was really just making an observation and thought I made it clear that I was not dissing her. I would have done it had it been a man that caught my eye.

[beacooker]

I don't support that theory at all. I was really just making an observation and thought I made it clear that I was not dissing her. I would have done it had it been a man that caught my eye.

But I think the point is, an equally bad picture of a man probably wouldn't have caught your eye, or the eye of most people.

[Laura]

I will say one thing; being a politician does nothing for your looks. If you look at photographs of recent presidents from the first days of their presidency and then photos throughout, it is amazing to see how quickly they age.

[ChristineVA]

But I think the point is, an equally bad picture of a man probably wouldn't have caught your eye, or the eye of most people.

That's 'cause the male politicians always look near death to me.:D

[blazedog]

But I think the point is, an equally bad picture of a man probably wouldn't have caught your eye, or the eye of most people.

Yup the point and one of my real dislikes.

Why are women who are NOT putting themselves out there based on their looks meriting comments on their looks -- especially when the standard used to judge those looks is a harsh and unrealistic one.

Ms. Clinton is an attractive well groomed highly competent professional woman -- most of you should be as good looking when you hit 60 -- or be as smart and accomplished as well.

[SusanMac]

Yea, I thought the subject of this thread was going to be about more than looks.

With that said....I think Hillary looks great. She finally got a great hairstyle over the past few years.

All of the candidates have gained a bit of weight and gotten a few new laugh lines. Good god, with their schedules, lifestyle & lack of sleep, I can't imagine how they stay as healthy as they do.

Bobmark - I totally agree with your point! Hmm, wonder if she bakes a good cc cookie??

[Chefzhat]

Oh, for crying out loud. :cool:

For the sake of balance . . .

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:CBl2CQOuEl1u4M:http://www.airamerica.com/maddow/files/maddow/images/MCCAIN.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:q_lBjakJUS0TUM:http://media.komotv.com/images/070411_fred_thompson.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:M9_rDGLEl24seM:http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/john-kerry_john-edwards.jpg

There - dorky pix of other candidates.

The problem with the current(seemingly) decade long election season is that it gives all of us plenty of time to both listen to the message AND poke a bit of fun.

I apologize in advance - from preview it looks like the pics wont' show.

[blazedog]

Oh, for crying out loud. :cool:

For the sake of balance . . .

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:CBl2CQOuEl1u4M:http://www.airamerica.com/maddow/files/maddow/images/MCCAIN.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:q_lBjakJUS0TUM:http://media.komotv.com/images/070411_fred_thompson.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:M9_rDGLEl24seM:http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/john-kerry_john-edwards.jpg

There - dorky pix of other candidates.

The problem with the current(seemingly) decade long election season is that it gives all of us plenty of time to both listen to the message AND poke a bit of fun.

I apologize in advance - from preview it looks like the pics wont' show.

You seem to have missed the point -- There are no doubt unflattering pictures of any politician.

The POINT is that no one sees fit to start a thread on an unattractive picture of a MALE politician -- or in general comment on looks.

Prominent and accomplished females however are fair game and the comments are generally based on standards which should be applicable to people earning money FROM their looks and not because they are in the public eye because of accomplishments in other areas of their life.

Sorry but to me it is a BIG deal because this kind of demeaning and impossibly high double standard is a major issue. It's not enough that a woman have a medical degree or a JD or an MBA - she must also look like an AIR BRUSHED model or actress -- the epidemic of eating disorders or emotional issues among young women who feel they are "not worthy".

By creating an atmosphere where it is fair game to make fun of Ms. Clinton based on her looks -- what the hell kind of message do you think that sends to normally attractive woman, teenagers, college women.

[Chefzhat]

The POINT is that no one sees fit to start a thread on an unattractive picture of a MALE politician -- or in general comment on looks..

Perhaps. But isn't it possible that just because a dorky pix thread about a male candidate has happened yet doesn't mean it won't??

[Chefzhat]

By creating an atmosphere where it is fair game to make fun of Ms. Clinton based on her looks -- what the hell kind of message do you think that sends to normally attractive woman, teenagers, college women.

teeheehee - get real. :p I doubt the MTV generation - weaned as they are on "Girls Next Door", "Laguna Beach", and other various demeaning television programs - will take offense at this one instance of hillary-bashing.

[TieKitty]

Oh, for crying out loud. :cool:

For the sake of balance . . .

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:CBl2CQOuEl1u4M:http://www.airamerica.com/maddow/files/maddow/images/MCCAIN.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:q_lBjakJUS0TUM:http://media.komotv.com/images/070411_fred_thompson.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:M9_rDGLEl24seM:http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/john-kerry_john-edwards.jpg

There - dorky pix of other candidates.

The problem with the current(seemingly) decade long election season is that it gives all of us plenty of time to both listen to the message AND poke a bit of fun.

I apologize in advance - from preview it looks like the pics wont' show.

Great pictures, Chefzhat! :D I particularly liked the one of Mr. McCain.:eek:

[blazedog]

Perhaps. But isn't it possible that just because a dorky pix thread about a male candidate has happened yet doesn't mean it won't??

Are you really that obtuse -- or merely that shallow in terms of how you judge other women -- especially women of accomplishment.

This kind of stuff does send messages to women -- and more importantly young girls -- that eats away at self image.

I can't recall the last time a male politician had his picture posted or his looks commented upon -- which is the point -- and not a particularly complicated one.

[Chefzhat]

Are you really that obtuse -- or merely that shallow in terms of how you judge other women -- especially women of accomplishment.

This kind of stuff does send messages to women -- and more importantly young girls -- that eats away at self image.

I can't recall the last time a male politician had his picture posted or his looks commented upon -- which is the point -- and not a particularly complicated one.

There you go - calling names again. Obtuse and shallow, huh???

Could it possibly be that you're working too hard to be offended at something and are having a hard time justifying your anger?

[blazedog]

There you go - calling names again. Obtuse and shallow, huh???

Could it possibly be that you're working too hard to be offended at something and are having a hard time justifying your anger?

I don't understand this statement -- I am not working "too hard" -- per my original post, this is one of those issues which does tick me off because I think it has wider deletorious implications for young girls and women.

As for being obtuse -- perhaps I am missing something in terms of the relevance of your response. Do you seriously think that male politicians (or other males in the public eye who are NOT models) are judged by the same harsh standards by which people feel free to judge successful women?

Your posting obscure pictures of less than flattering pictures of male politicians didn't address my point -- either you are obtuse (failing to comprehend a fairly simple point) OR you find it completely acceptable to judge women as if they were competing for a beauty title -- something which I find to be a shallow view of other women.

[KAG]

I read as far as blazedog's reply and just wanted to say I couldn't agree with her more. Not wanting to be redundant I'll just add that I am not a Clinton for Presidant fan, but I think she looks fabulous. She has aged very, very well. In fact, I think she is more attractive today than she was in the first term of her husband.

I would not vote for her because of her socialistic politics specifically her view on how we should change our health care system. I agree, it needs to be changed but I'm not on her side with this issue.

Having said that, I think she is an extremely fascinating woman and smart as a whip to boot. I don't consider myself as a dyed in the wool feminest and I think she does, but I admire her for her work for women both in this country and abroad.

I like her, but wouldn't vote for her. I'm an Independant who wants to vote for a moderate Republican, but I would love to have dinner with Hillary.

Gosh, how far off topic did I get? :o

[SDMomChef]

It appears the thread has veered off in another direction...my only comment is that I seem to recall discussion on the Oscar thread about Al Gore's appearance along with the women....FWIW.

[SusanMac]

There has been lots of discussion on John Edwards' hair and Obama's swimsuit photo shot (which I've seen 2 versions of...and am not certain which one is real! Although it doesn't matter either way. Sad)

I do agree that the overly long road to the candidacy encourages everyone to nit pick every single little thing. The fact that they have weekly debates & don't really share much meaningful information doesn't help either.

(I know there were other points being made on the thread. So, for the record, I'm not being obtuse...just choosing to focus on other aspects) You can still call me obtuse if you want tho :-)

[ChristieinMB]

I can't recall the last time a male politician had his picture posted or his looks commented upon -- which is the point -- and not a particularly complicated one.
Do you remember the Ross Perot jokes?

[PAMMELA]

This in an interesting article, albeit a little dated. For the record, I think Mrs. Clinton is an attractive, intelligent, strong woman and I would hope to look as good as her when i'm in my 60s.


The Kind of Face-Off in Which Looks Can Kill

His bloody, unappetizing lip notwithstanding, Representative Rick Lazio's entry into the New York Senate race generated a basketful of valentines in newspapers and magazines describing his pleasing suburban patina as a big political asset. Not too many articles said the same thing about Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, the unadulterated 50's guy whom Mr. Lazio replaced. Meanwhile the opponent of these Senate candidates past and present, Hillary Rodham Clinton, was acclaimed last year in Esquire magazine for her ''sexy'' mouth -- sexy being an adjective that is normally problematic for female politicians.

All of which raises some familiar but entertaining questions: What is the role of good looks in politics? Can a candidate be too attractive? Too unattractive? What constitutes good looks? Would some unsightly American presidents of the past, like the 350-pound William Howard Taft, who installed a massive bathtub in the White House, be elected today? Does hair help?

''Hair helps,'' agreed former Gov. Hugh L. Carey, who dyed his own an orangey-auburn.

A variety of experts was consulted on these questions: Michael Beschloss, presidential historian; David Garth, political consultant; Mario M. Cuomo, former governor; Edward I. Koch, former mayor; Geraldine A. Ferraro, former vice presidential candidate; Zenia Mucha, Gov. George E. Pataki's chief political aide; Edmund Morris, presidential biographer; Mark Penn, pollster for the Clintons; David Granger, editor in chief of Esquire; and Patrick McCarthy, chairman and editorial director of W and Women's Wear Daily among others.

They all agreed that bland good looks help in politics, and that men as much as women are damaged by the ''dumb blond syndrome,'' particularly when questions arise about a candidate's intellectual heft. As an exasperated Marilyn Quayle said in 1981, shortly after her husband was elected to the Senate, but some years before he became vice president and misspelled potato: ''There were those on the campaign trail who would say, 'I'm not going to vote for him because he's running on his looks.' Well, what's he supposed to do -- put a bag over his face?''

Then, too, everything changed in American politics after the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon debates and the predominance of television, when politicians had to at least not physically repel voters. ''These days if you're hideous, it does hurt you in politics,'' Mr. Beschloss said. ''A hundred years ago, that wasn't so much the case.''

Historians wonder whether Grover Cleveland, who was not quite so fat as Taft but still deemed unappealing, would have become president if he had had to appear on ''Meet the Press.'' Even Abraham Lincoln, whose charisma and presence were unforgettable, was widely considered ugly and said so himself. Mr. Morris, the biographer of Theodore Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan, said he doubted that Roosevelt would do well on television because of his ''very high, harsh voice'' and ''gnashing white teeth.'' But Mr. Reagan, he said, had a ''physical beauty'' that was ''a large part of his power.''

On the other hand, America's standards have changed. How many people know today that Warren G. Harding was considered a hunk? Women of his time certainly thought so. (After Harding died, his ex-mistress wrote a book describing their lovemaking in a coat closet of the Oval Office.)

In the present day, Steve Forbes may be one former presidential candidate who longs for the era of radio. In videotapes of focus groups that his aides provided last year, a dozen potential voters could be seen kibitzing around a kitchen table in Iowa about Mr. Forbes's television commercials -- and sometimes suggesting that he might want to avoid close-ups. ''This is a very superficial comment, and I hesitate to make it,'' one man said sheepishly. ''But he's not the most attractive or presidential-looking candidate.''

Although John F. Kennedy is widely acknowledged to have set the gold standard in presidential attractiveness, beauty is often in the eye of the partisan. Republicans like Ms. Mucha say that Mr. Lazio's wholesome good looks reflect his youth, energy and enthusiasm -- in short, a description of a fine senator. But Democrats use words like ''cute,'' ''boyish'' or ''Little League parent'' to describe him, implying that Mr. Lazio might be a good senator when he grows up. Ms. Ferraro, a Democrat, also took issue with Mr. Lazio's youthful demeanor, particularly his fall during a Memorial Day parade, which injured his lip. ''I would like to sit him down and say, 'Calm down,' ''' she said.

Attractiveness in women is more complicated. A luscious candidate is definitely not good; none of the experts could name any lookers elected except for Jeanine F. Pirro, the Westchester County district attorney who looks great in short skirts. It is also quite possible to be too rich and too beautiful. In Mr. Garth's view, Bess Myerson, a former Miss America, was hurt by both her looks and elegant style when she ran for Senate in New York in 1980. ''I think it's tougher for women,'' he said.

AT this point in political trends for women, the chief attribute is to appear sensibly attractive and mature like Christine Todd Whitman, Elizabeth Dole and Mrs. Clinton. Mr. McCarthy of W gives Mrs. Clinton especially high marks. ''I'm not sure who's helping her,'' he said, ''but somebody really good is helping her.'' Mr. McCarthy complimented Mrs. Clinton for settling on a look, dark pantsuits, and one hairstyle. The result is that people have stopped talking about her hair -- a goal of any woman in politics. Mr. McCarthy also felt very strongly that a sexy look is ''disastrous'' for politicians because ''it indicates that he or she has things on the mind other than producing great legislation.''

Mr. Granger of Esquire felt differently, at least about Mrs. Clinton. In his eyes she has considerable sex appeal, which he considers a positive. ''It's a combination of power and intelligence and the willingness to wield those weapons unabashedly,'' he said. Still, it is a sexist axiom of the early 21st century that powerful women, whether senators or C.E.O.'s, still don't take on sex appeal as often as men -- Henry Kissinger in his prime is Exhibit A. But Mr. Cuomo, who frequently joked about how an ugly guy got elected governor, disagrees with this view. ''I spent 12 years as governor,'' he said, ''and never felt I had suddenly become overwhelmingly tempting to anybody.''

Even so, the final consensus of the experts was, naturally, that looks never matter as much in politics as positions on the issues or the hard work of campaigning. As Mr. Penn summed it up: ''Boring guys always do better in the end.''

[charley]

Every time I see a thread like this I'm reminded of those grocery store rags. I don't "get" the need that some people seem to have to tear others apart based on their physical appearance.

Just remember, you too will be 60 someday. What will that critical voice say then? ;)

[Laura]

Every time I see a thread like this I'm reminded of those grocery store rags. I don't "get" the need that some people seem to have to tear others apart based on their physical appearance.

Just remember, you too will be 60 someday. What will that critical voice say then? ;)

I don't really think anyone was tearing Hillary Clinton apart (at least based on her looks). The original poster wondered if she had aged or if it was a bad photo. IMO she has aged and it is a bad photo.

[PAMMELA]

Every time I see a thread like this I'm reminded of those grocery store rags. I don't "get" the need that some people seem to have to tear others apart based on their physical appearance.



Please show me where anyone was tearing her apart based on her looks.:rolleyes: Being the OP, I was just commenting on what an unflattering picture it was. Period. I've already stated above my thoughts about her.

[Chefzhat]

I don't really think anyone was tearing Hillary Clinton apart (at least based on her looks). The original poster wondered if she had aged or if it was a bad photo. IMO she has aged and it is a bad photo.

Well, yeah - but apparently we are all missing the point. :confused: A point that was introduced into the thread after the fact, and apparently a point that some of us are too obtuse to understand.

Blazie babie - I GET it. You just don't want to accept that fact. I did not post obscure pix - a simple google search revealed all of them on the first results page, so hardly obscure. You don't know me, or anything about me so please don't labor under the assumption that I am sitting here gleefully demaning women and somehow trying to offend you.

Sometimes a duck is just a duck. It was a horrible picture of her. We commented that it was a horrible picture of her. That's it. That's all there is. You banging us all over the head zillions of times won't change that fact. So . . . . unclench.

Debie

[SusanMac]

She's not 60 yet, is she?? -- LOL! (not quite the compliment it was intended to be :-)

(Bill was on Daily Show last week and indicated that he's 59. So, I'm taking a stab to guess that HC isn't yet 60)

[MikeC]

cnn.com says she was born October 26, 1947. So she's 60 next month.

[muriel3002]

Wow, it seems like she's aged overnight! Not knocking her or anything, I just didn't realize! Unless this is just NOT a good picture!



http://stb.msn.com/i/C0/55F1AF1739F3BAA5EEA5AB9722C4D8.jpg

Reminds me of Queen Victoria....

[jmarie]

http://blog.fastcompany.com/archives/images/algore%20cover.jpg

If they can make AL Gore look like this, they can surely make Hillary Clinton look worse than she really does.

I don't like her, but I'm sure that one can photoshop in one direction as well the other. I think her photo was photoshopped.

All you have to do is look at Al Gore's picture and see the miracles of photoshopping.

[do-lolly]

I do think that we do it to women more frequently, but we also talk about men aging in office too. I know people always comment on Ted Kennedy's looks, and it seems we always discusss how much each president ages while in office.

I don't know why women are harder on each other though.:(

[KAnn]

I read as far as blazedog's reply and just wanted to say I couldn't agree with her more.



Me, too! I wish I could say something more insightful, but I am too tired! :D

I doubt there is a female candidate of either party/political persuasion who hasn't had her physical appearance scrutinized in a way that is never done to men. And it's sad.

[Terrie53]

For the record, I think Mrs. Clinton is an attractive, intelligent, strong woman and I would hope to look as good as her when i'm in my 60s.

I agree! And, IMO, a strong candidate for President! :D

Everything else aside, it really is an awful picture of her! :(

[ClaraB]

Blazedog, FWIW when I saw Al Gore in "An Inconvenient Truth", my first reaction was, "Boy, has he gone downhill fast!". I had the same reaction when I saw the OP picture of Hillary, although I do agree with the other posters that it's a very unflattering photo.

[Chefzhat]

Everything else aside, it really is an awful picture of her! :(

That's all we're saying!

[PAMMELA]

Took long enough! :)

[Laura]

Blazedog, FWIW when I saw Al Gore in "An Inconvenient Truth", my first reaction was, "Boy, has he gone downhill fast!". I had the same reaction when I saw the OP picture of Hillary, although I do agree with the other posters that it's a very unflattering photo.

And I do believe that I pointed out that Al Gore looked like Grandpa from the Munsters when I saw a picture of him at the Oscars! :p :D

[tidee]

christie -- i remember ross perot.

does anyone remember the great sendup NPR did during the campaign where clinton played a sexy sax solo, then ross hired an orchestra to play something, and prez bush (the elder) picked up his high school instrument and played a little something on the old 'bone'. LOL!

[HejazSunKat]

Yup the point and one of my real dislikes.

Why are women who are NOT putting themselves out there based on their looks meriting comments on their looks -- especially when the standard used to judge those looks is a harsh and unrealistic one.

Ms. Clinton is an attractive well groomed highly competent professional woman -- most of you should be as good looking when you hit 60 -- or be as smart and accomplished as well.

In a similar vein, it always irks the living sh!t out of me when Condoleeza Rice is involved in something, a hearing, an interview, whatever...and the voice over commentary on this accomplished woman (and I am no passionate Condi fan but I recognize she has had a distinguished career) has got to mention that she plays the piano or figure skates. Arrrrgh. Really, it never fails and I think it's insulting and demeaning. It would never occur to them to talk about how a man of similar stature likes to garden or paint. It's like they feel the need to give her some conventional feminine accomplishments. She's a former National Security Advisor and current Secretary of State but she redeems herself folks by being able to do a figure eight. :rolleyes:

[bobmark226]

It would never occur to them to talk about how a man of similar stature likes to garden or paint.

Aw, come on, Linda, who could forget Gerry Ford toasting his own English muffin? ;)

Bob