need dishwasher opinions!

[melfitz]

I needed a new dishwasher a month ago. DH & I have shopped around, read reviews, and almost bought a Kitchen Aid (with the 3rd rack) to find out that it wouldn't fit. Anyway, we are really leaning toward a Bosch but I've read mixed reviews about it despite it seemingly being one of the best brands.

Can anyone who owns a Bosch give me opinions about your dishwasher?

Does anyone have the Kenmore Elite made by Bosch?

Any other models to consider?

What I'm looking for is an all stainless steel (no black panel) with a flat panel (no door handle), hopefully much less than $1000.

Thanks so much!


-Melanie

[armel]

I'm the one who had a Bosch and returned it and bought a Kitchenaid.

Why wouldn't the Kitchenaid fit? Do you have a smaller opening than standard?

I think that the problems I had with Bosch drying might be related to my everyday dishes. I have cute melamine dishes, a certain type of containers for food, acrylic glasses that I use. I think the drying doesn't work that great on things like that. Maybe if you don't use any of that, you won't have my problem. It also had a weird odor. Which my Kitchenaid never had. So not sure about that, but suspect it might be related to the new materials outgassing.

As to cleaning and quietness, I did like the Bosch. I just need my dishes completely dry. And truthfully, the dishes I use also fit better into the kitchenaid.

I think all European models might be smaller. I think there is a brand called Asko that has an assisted drying mode. That may dry better than the Bosch but still fit in the same opening. I think it is probably around $1000 though.

I found all of the stainless steel with integrated panels were running close to $1000 no matter what the model. Also, I think having a handle helps minimize the fingerprints on the stainless steel door. I don't notice them on the handle, but they are more noticeable on the door, so if you use a handle, you can use that to open and close.

[HejazSunKat]

And (just to make your decision more difficult :) ) I'm a very happy Bosch owner. If you want your dishes to come out bone dry like Armel then no, you probably wouldn't like the Bosch. I personally don't have a problem with a little moisture on my dishes after the cycle but everyone's different. As for other aspects of it's performance mine's incredibly quiet, it does an excellent job cleaning and I don't find it too small. I always get in everything I need to get in. No one machine is going to be right for everybody. You just have to know what your needs and wants are but I certainly wouldn't be scared off of the Bosch as they're an excellent appliance. I agree with Armel about having the handle - it helps alot to minimize fingerprints on the door if you've got it. The controls for my machine are on the top of the door so the only thing on the outside is the handle and that really doesn't screw up the sleek look if that's what you were thinking about.

If you haven't already done so I would suggest you go over to Garden Web and poke around in the appliance or kitchen forums for more information and opinions:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/

[melfitz]

Why wouldn't the Kitchenaid fit?

It fits in the space but having a handle is a problem. The previous owners of our house put the dishwasher in front of a drawer that is perpendicular to it. If the dishwasher had a handle, you couldn't open the drawer.

[blazedog]

Another very happy Bosch owner -- I have the stainless model with NO black showing.

Bosch is one of the most highly rated models by independent organizations such as CR. Since these testing groups deal with vast numbers of respondents as well as very specific tests, their ratings are better than anecdotal reviews by one person -- which is not to negate the opinion of any individual. However, often an opinion is based on quirks or an isolated negative experience.

As I recall many of the upper level Kenmore models are made by Bosch -- I was going to get one of those but I liked the styling of the Bosch model as all of the Kenmore models had buttons on the front at that point and I wanted an absolutely sleek exterior.

I do believe the interior of the Bosch might be slightly than some American machines because of the greater sound insulation but I am not completely sure. This is made up for by the ability to put plastic on top or bottom -- Bosch does not have heating elements so NOTHING melts anywhere -- a small but annoying aspect of my last DW in which periodically something plastic would wind up melting.

I have no problem with drying as I generally do a load when I know it can stay in there for a long period of time. The only items that don't dry as things like my coffee grinder which has deep crevices on all sides in which pools of water accumulate -- I don't think any DW could solve that issue as it is inherent in the design of the grinder thingies. However, normal plastic items dry well -- again assuming I have loaded them so that they don't accumulate puddles of water. I have a few flat plastic items -- a plate or two that I use for prep and a cutting board and these always dry very well.

That said, if I were buying another DW, I would probably opt for a Miele which has a unique third drawer on top which holds flatware. My friend has one and this frees up a LOT of real estate since there are no baskets. However, for a comparable model (i.e. all stainless steel) it is a few hundred dollars more, so that is a consideration. My Bosch model was already about $1000 or so as I recall so a Miele would have been closer to $1500 when all was said and done.

However, I don't regret buying the Bosch in terms of performance -- dishes are done well, no drying issues and it is so quiet that at first I had to place my hand over the top of the counter to feel the very subtle vibration to ensure myself that it was in fact operating.

[merley]

Another happy Bosch owner here! It is so quiet that sometimes I think it is not running. A couple of times DD has opened it while it was running only to be splashed with water.

I have no drying problems except a few coffee cups have little wells in the bottom and hold water. The plastic is dry. The dishes and silverware are always clean.

I have a stainless steel front with the controls on the top of the door. It looks nice in the kitchen..

[Beth]

I have a pair of Thermador DWs. They are made by Bosch and sold under the Thermador name to match their live. Funny thing is that I got the panel ready one (didn't want two stainless doors in the cabinet run) and they are less in the Thermador line that in the Bosch so I bought them. They are the next to top of the line (didn't need 9 cycles) and were under $1000, but I don't remember exactly how much now.

I did have to learn to load them, but I've found that to be true with any change in DW -- even in the same manufacturer's line from and old model tot he new one. I will have to make another adjustment when I find the rest of my glasses and get them unpacked, but I think we can deal with that.

The DWs are quiet and they clean very well -- my most important criteria. They also dry as well as any DW I've ever had -- withthe exception of this one load we ran yesterday. We washed 8 silicone mats to see how they would do. That was about half the load, so there wasn't much in the way of metal or ceramics to heat up and help the drying process. This one load was pretty damp, so I learned that I can clean the mats easily and dry them or wash them by hand and dry them. :p Guess I'll see how I feel after a baking frenzy -- other times I doubt it really matters. In my old DW, I don't think I would have even put them inthe DW. I don't think they qwould be safe with the exposed coile and they wouldn't fit well in the top rack.

For ordinary loads, we can get some water in the rolled edges of certain pans or plastics, some water beading onthe bottom of plastic glasses or puddles inthe recesses of cups or glasses, but not always. We can load so that much of that runs off and they dry pretty well. What is left has never struck me as any worse than any other DW load in any other brand, and I'm certainly fine with that given their cleaning performace and quiet operarion.

I have had a couple of Whirlpool /KA DWs I have hated (including the one we took out of this kitchen when we remodeled), but I had one in our last house that I really liked. It was quiet (not as quiet as the Bosch after we'd had it a while) and cleaned well. I really liked the way it loaded, but they changed the racking and I didn't like the new styles. My least favorite issue wsa that you had to remove parts of the racks rather than fold them down when washing large items. After loading all the dirty dishes and claning up, I don't' want a counter or sink full of DW parts sitting out while the DW runs.

[ssgold]

I just bought a Kitchenaid and have owned a Bosch in a previous house. I loved the Bosch because it was so quiet. It did bother me that nothing ever dried. I have a 3 year old so there were a lot of plastic cups and dishes. I just got used to spreading a dish towel on the counter and letting stuff dry. We just replaced a piece of junk, low-end Kenmore. We were on a budget and looked at the entry level Bosch and Kitchenaid. We refused to shop Sears because of our experience with them and the crappy dishwasher (that's another post). We ended up going with the Kitchenaid because Best Buy had a great deal with free delivery and installation. I was able to put my money toward a better model rather than delivery and installation. I love the dishwasher. It is easy to load, quiet and most things dry completely. I don't think it is as quiet as the Bosch but it is quiet enough that we can't hear it in the next. The model we got does have the regular panel but I know they make it flat.

[melfitz]

Bummer that Bosch doesn't quite dry plastic and we are still very much a sippy cup & plastic plates household (5 young kids!). I definitely like my dishes dry but I usually run the dishwasher only at night and I imagine that the dishes could dry overnight. I just started looking at the Miele. I'll have to check the Thermadors. There are so many options. It's a lot of money and I just want to make the best decision possible because I don't foresee buying another one for a very long time. I really like the Kitchen Aid with the 3rd shelf for utensils. I'm so bummed that it has a handle.

[armel]

It fits in the space but having a handle is a problem. The previous owners of our house put the dishwasher in front of a drawer that is perpendicular to it. If the dishwasher had a handle, you couldn't open the drawer.

I am fairly certain that they have the stainless without the handle. Oh, I just looked and they do have one. But the controls are not integrated and it has black trim so probably not what you are looking for.

And just so you know, my dishes in the Bosch did not dry overnight. I would run the dishwasher and then go to take them out the next night and still have problems with them notbeing dry. They did not dry overnight. So don't count on that.

I heard good things about the GE Profile from two friends. That would have the drying element. Maybe they have some without the handle.

The only reason that I didn't buy the GE Profile instead of Kitchenaid was because my dishes didn't fit well. When I say my dishes didn't fit, I took my most used dishes to the store and tried them in the dishwasher. I found trouble fitting my dog's bowls in the dishwashers except for the Kitchenaid. It wasn't that the dishwashers were too small, but rather the arrangement of the racks and tines.

ETA: All of the European dishwasher Miele, etc. use the same condensation drying as Bosch. So the drying issue will probably be true for them too. Asko has an assisted condensation drying in that they actually use a fan too.