Need to Vent

[scudgal]

As background, I'm an Admin working almost 7 years for a VP in a large company. He and I have a very informal, friendly relationship (he calls me on his cell every morning while driving in - just to chat about non-business issues, what's in the news, Imus, whatever). I give more than 100% to my job (in at 8 but our corporate start time is 8:30, work through lunch, check email over weekends).

OK so DH and I are getting ready to head down to NYC tomorrow after work to spend Thanksgiving with family. It's a four hour drive. I'm taking Weds as a vacation day. Many of the admins in the company telecommute - and I do on occasion (snow storms, before a holiday, etc) but my boss doesn't really like me to unless a special situation (I secretly think it's because he gets lonely in the office (we are the only ones in our dept in the office where we work) and likes the company. So this afternoon, I said to him, "we would like to hit the road a little early to beat the traffic tomorrow..." and before I could finish my sentence, he responded tensely, "and how is that MY problem? What does it have to do with me? Don't go and ask me if you can work from home." I was taken aback, and replied, "I was just going to ask you if you would prefer if I either left early (around 3 o'clock) or worked from home until 5 - then hit the road." He made a snide reply at first saying "are those the only choices?" I said "no - you can answer 'none of the above', that's your perrogative. He responded, "fine - it's ok with me if you leave at 3". I came away feeling beat up and shameful (for what I don't know). Why was it necessary for him to make me feel so bad about a simple request?

My feeling is that if I were anyone other than an Admin - anybody else on his staff, he would simply say fine - have a great holiday. I think Admins get treated in situations like this like they are peons - less than other employees. I can certainly understand under certain circumstances (busy office, telephone calls coming in all the time, last minute work to go out) that it's certainly not appropriate to make this kind of request. But in my situation, there is nothing going on in the office this week. The office is quiet due to the holiday; the phone isn't ringing, and there is nothing left to do in the way of work --- nothing. He is just being ornery and difficult and asserting his power over me.

I am just feeling so upset about being spoken to this way and wonder how I should have responded. I just hung my head and took it, but in retrospect, surely there must be a healthy way to respond to this kind of humiliation. Granted, he is my boss and has ever right to deny my request - but he didn't do that and I think just wanted me to feel bad. How could I have responded in an assertive, but respectful way?

I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

[Lauren]

Don't let it bother you ... let if go. I speak from experience. :rolleyes: I'm contracting and my boss told me to watch my hours and try to stay under 40, as the company is watching the budget, etc.

OK, so a couple weeks ago I announced that I was going to leave at 1:30. I usually work 7:30 to 3:30 or maybe 4:00. I was at 40 hours for the week, was having company for dinner, didn't have anything pressing to take care of at work, etc. She "talked" to me about leaving early with out letting her know in advance. It bothered me all weekened. :eek:

I agree sometimes it's a control issue and in other cases I think things are going in that I'm not aware of and may have taken the brunt of it.

[DmOrtega]

From what you've typed, it sounds like you get along fine most of the time and you talked to him at a bad time. If he is acting out of character, there is probably more to it than you leaving a couple of hours early.

[Grace]

While it could be control/nastiness on his part, from your description, he sounds more to me like a lonely person, reacting as a child does to those feelings of disappointment and sadness. He is obviously attached to you, and the idea of you not being around made him mad. He lashed out because he didn't know how to deal with those feelings (wrong, wrong, not excusing him), and then it sounds like he quickly got a grip and because he really does like you (as I take it from your description of your morning non-work related chats each day) and of course let you do what you want. I think if he were truly some kind of nasty control freak, he would not have told you to go.

I know years ago, when I was technically an adult, but completely and totally emotionally immature (not that I'm some model of maturity now, mind you, but I've come a long way since those old days!), I would react to disappointment with anger. It's very common, and I think moreso even in men because they aren't typically the type to confront their own feelings.

I could be wrong, but you asked for thoughts! Those are mine. :)

As to what you could do in the future, assuming this is actually the case with this guy, is lighten the mood up a little and say something like, "Gosh, if you're really going to miss me that much, just say so!!" I'd say that with a big smile on my face and give him a little ribbing. Sometimes that's all it takes. Sorry you're feeling so badly. Women tend to take things very, very personally, while men don't even remember the "incident" five seconds after it happens. :rolleyes:

[GingerPow]

I've read this a couple of times, and the important thing here is the way you handled it; reasonable and maturely. We can't control how others react, although when it's out of character and blind-sides us, it's especially disconcerting. I detest feeling like I've just been hit by a sneak attack.

Focus on the way you handled his outburst. If he reflects on it (which he may not) he would feel a little silly because he overreacted.

You handled yourself well, just keep that first and foremost in mind, and never, ever allow anyone to make you feel "shameful." You have nothing to be ashamed of. There are people who do less than you and ask for more than you have. With the time that you've indicated you put into this job, you have earned some consideration, and you did not deserve that reaction.

There have been great observations made here. It's especially interesting to me that he might just feel 'abandoned' by you and reacted with anger that actually came from hurt. That's his thing to work out, not yours.

If he reacts that way in the future, you could simply ask him why he is reacting so strongly to your reasonable request? Ask him if any of the choices you offered presented a problem for him. Put the spotlight on him to explain his reactions.

Have a nice holiday - Thanksgiving in NYC sounds like fun!

[Kristilyn1]

sounds to me like your boss got snippy with his work wife. I had a beloved boss like that. Most of the time we were a great team but just like I'm sure he might bark at his wife on occasion, he would bark at me. I'm guessing that he will probably be extra nice when the day actually comes, not that it excuses it, certainly--but at least it would let you know that he didn't really mean it.........

Kristi

[Andrea_2]

While it could be control/nastiness on his part, from your description, he sounds more to me like a lonely person, reacting as a child does to those feelings of disappointment and sadness. He is obviously attached to you, and the idea of you not being around made him mad. He lashed out because he didn't know how to deal with those feelings (wrong, wrong, not excusing him), and then it sounds like he quickly got a grip and because he really does like you (as I take it from your description of your morning non-work related chats each day) and of course let you do what you want. I think if he were truly some kind of nasty control freak, he would not have told you to go.


This was my thought on it too. I would try to not let it bother you, although I know that is easier said than done. It certainly doesn't sound like your request was unreasonable, so it sounds like he has some kind of issue.

[Canice]

I agree with everyone here...even though all the hypotheses are different! Any one of them sounds completely reasonable to me, and of course you weren't out of line. He sounds like a great boss overall, and it could be as simple as you caught him in a crabby mood. Your request was reasonable, reasonably presented, and you seemed willing to accept "no" without a fuss. As GingerPow said (so wisely, as ever) you can't control his reaction, only yourself. And you are just one of MANY millions of Americans trying to get a head start on the holiday weekend, being perfectly professional about it. Please don't beat yourself up about it.

[buffygirl]

Don't take it personally. Who knows why he snapped at you, but it has everything to do with him and nothing to do with you.

IMHO, admins are the back bone of most companies. So don't say you are a peon or less than others. You're not. Sounds like you are a dedicated professional and are very valuable.:)

[EmptyNestMom]

what's he doing on Thanksgiving weekend? perhaps he is a little bit jealous that you have family and friends to spend it with???? :D

You have a wonderful trip...it sounds as if you handled the situation very well.

Pam

[scudgal]

Thanks for all of your thoughtful comments. The odd thing is, my boss is the kind of guy who will say, on a quiet Friday afternoon, why don't you go home now - nothing's going on. However, in situations like today, where I am asking him if ok to either work from home or leave early, he gets his feathers ruffled. I really think it is a power thing. He wants to feel like he is in control and hates to be approached for this kind of "favor". I say this because I've noticed in the past few instances where I've approached him (and I don't do this very often - just special circumstances), he has gotten testy. This isn't the first time that he's responded "how is this my problem?". It really puts me in an awful position. I feel like he objects to my even "asking". I don't know any other way to approach him, and as a 58 year old professional, don't feel I should have to wait for the nice boss to say "why don't you leave early" in these particular circumstances. I have to say I am still unnerved by yesterday's exchange, and not looking forward to seeing him today and pretending all is fine, ya know? :mad:

BTW, he spends Thanksgiving with his wife, son and inlaws and has to drive only 20 minutes to get there.

[Kathy B]

Maybe if you phrased it a little differently? Instead of asking permission, you could tell him your plans. For example, "I thought I'd work from home Friday so we could get away a little earlier, but if you'd rather I can come in and work until 3:00 PM. Do you have a preference?" That would still give him the final say, but you sound more assertive, and he might feel less inclined to be sarcastic.

But in response to a statement like "and how is that MY problem?" you could calmly say, "It's not. I have a couple of options, but I need to know whether you prefer me to come in and work until 3:00, or if it would work out for me to work from home Friday." (Totally ignoring the sarcasm, and maintaining a neutral tone yourself.)

It is pretty hard to keep being sarcastic or intimidating or rude or whatever to someone who acts like they didn't notice. In my experience, most people change their attitude pretty quickly when you keep a neutral and unaffected attitude. (It also allows them to save face a bit, when you appear not to have noticed their momentary lapse in character).

[scudgal]

Maybe if you phrased it a little differently? Instead of asking permission, you could tell him your plans. For example, "I thought I'd work from home Friday so we could get away a little earlier, but if you'd rather I can come in and work until 3:00 PM. Do you have a preference?" That would still give him the final say, but you sound more assertive, and he might feel less inclined to be sarcastic.

But in response to a statement like "and how is that MY problem?" you could calmly say, "It's not. I have a couple of options, but I need to know whether you prefer me to come in and work until 3:00, or if it would work out for me to work from home Friday." (Totally ignoring the sarcasm, and maintaining a neutral tone yourself.)

Kathy - my boss is the type of guy who would respond with even more hostility if you TOLD him you were leaving early and/or working from home -- he thinks that is insubordination --- very old school. This is why I am in a conundrum. My only other option is to ASK him, and when I do that, he lays on the guilt. I refuse to be intimidated into not being able to ask for an occasional opportunity to leave early when needed and I just am at my wits end how to handle it.

Everyone's suggestions have been great but I am still struggling with what to do the next time around.

Thanks,

Leslie

[donnamp14]

Leslie- That stinks! The next time you need to leave early, call in sick! That'll teach him!

I did have a supervisor years ago who would never let anyone leave early or come in late (we're talking dental appointments, etc.), so we did really call in sick when we had something important to do. Now she's gone, and we are treated as adults.

With a boss like that, though, I'd definitely avoid weekend-emails. You're busy on the weekends!

Good luck. Safe trip! (And we have to get together for coffee soon!)

-Donna

[scudgal]

Leslie- That stinks! The next time you need to leave early, call in sick! That'll teach him!

Good luck. Safe trip! (And we have to get together for coffee soon!)

-Donna

Thanks, Donna! Unfortunately, there is no sick time here - you have to use vacation days --- UGH!

We definitely need to meet up for coffee soon - that would be great!

Wishing a Safe and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

[DmOrtega]

... However, in situations like today, where I am asking him if ok to either work from home or leave early, he gets his feathers ruffled. ...

There isn't much of a choice with this, so unless you "normally" give him one of two options for working, then I guess I can see where he may be offended. It would be better to just ask to leave early.

[scudgal]

There isn't much of a choice with this, so unless you "normally" give him one of two options for working, then I guess I can see where he may be offended. It would be better to just ask to leave early.

Huh? I think somehow I may have not been clear. I'm sure he would have reacted the same way if I had just asked to leave early. I gave him a choice because I felt that showed him I was willing to do what was best for him.

Why would he be offended? I am an employee - not an endentured servant. Sorry, I am a little bit sensitive about this at this point and don't understand what I did that would have offended. To me this just feels like a power play - and I don't like being treated this way - like a child, not a mature, responsible employee.

[DmOrtega]

I find it hard to make my point sometimes when I am typing. It doesn't always come across the way I intended.

My point is that as an employee, you are giving your boss, one of two choices for how you will do your job. As an employer, your boss has the right to decide what your job will be. None of us want to be treated unfairly and if you "normally" give your boss a choice of how you will do your job, then it should not be a problem. It seemed to me that you have backed him into a corner with; either I work at home or I leave two hours early, your choice. I feel it's not a good approach. It gives the impression that you are dictating to him what you will do. Again, if you normally do this, then there shouldn't be an issue.

[buffygirl]

Not ideal, but could you just take 1/2 day off next time if you want to avoid his rudeness???

[SusanPC]

Sounds like maybe you caught him on a bad day? The only thing I would say is perhaps he wanted a bit more advance notice? Usually my assistant will ask a few days in advance if she wants to take off early. I get a bit annoyed if she informs me the day of for a DR appt, etc. Although, since you say it isn't busy in the office, I don't think he should get ruffled one way or another, esp. since you will only be leaving a couple of hours early. I am sure if there was a firedrill you'd stay to see it through, right?

Hang in there and enjoy your holiday!

[TKay]

I think the way that you handled it was perfect. You didn't overreact, just remained calm and matter of fact. And I think that's the way to continue to handle it. I understand it bothering you, but really (as was said above), you can't control his reactions.
I'm not a boss per se, but I do hire a sitter on regular occasions. Do I own her time? Absolutely not. Is she free to book it with other things? Of course. Yet there are times when she'll tell me she has plans for a certain day or whatever and I'll actually be irked. Sometimes I feel like because I depend on my sitter so much that she should always simply be available. It's crazy, I know. But there it is.
To me, it sounds like a similar situation with your boss. He knows you are free to make other arrangements as far as working from home is concerned (or taking off a bit early sometimes). But he wants to know that you are available any time he needs you. It's crazy. Yet that's what seems to be going on to me--especially if he's calling you while you're driving in and expecting you to answer e-mail on the weekends. He wants you at his beck and call.
Not sure that helps, but that's what makes sense to me. I say do what you gotta do and take care of yourself first (my mantra). You are clearly going above and beyond already and shouldn't give your requests a second thought. As to whether you address his reaction with him or not, I say not. But I'm non-confrontational by nature. Good luck and enjoy your trip.

[Canice]

....I've noticed in the past few instances where I've approached him (and I don't do this very often - just special circumstances), he has gotten testy. This isn't the first time that he's responded "how is this my problem?". It really puts me in an awful position....

Well that sheds new light. And what a rude response! I wouldn't even dignify it with a response. The "boss" or not, I love the fact that the only person who matters is HIM, as in how "How is that MY problem?"

Perhaps giving a little more notice would help, esp if couched in relevant and fair terms: "Say, I've got a long drive out next Wednesday for the Thanksgiving holiday, and since it's pretty quiet around here anyhow, I was hoping to take off a couple of hours early." If he jumps in with the offending comment, I would simply continue along: "If you can manage without me for a couple of hours, it would be really helpful to me to get a head start out. I was hoping to come in and work til 3:00 or telecommute and work til 5:00."
I'm not saying you can "fix" this because you very likely cannot - his canned response is snotty and not helpful in any way. Just thinking about how you might deal with his reactions.

[barbara-cook]

This is exactly why I don't miss "corporate" life a bit. I had several bosses that came off sounding like this at the worst of times. You come away from the exchange feeling like you asked them to do something vile when all you wanted was a little early me-time. I'm sorry he had to launch on you before your holiday - what a downer. Why does he do it, you ask? The answer? Because he CAN.

Have a great Thanksgiving, inspite of this guy.