Way OT- Self Esteem/Body Issues and Life

[m4star]

Please excuse the rant, but I need to vent. Like most women I know, I struggle each day with how I feel about my body, my weight, and my self-image. Since puberty I've been obsessed with various diets, health routines, exercise, etc... I've gone from the really "bad" (like writing down every morsel of food that crosses my lips) to really "good". Coming from a family with eating/image disorders, I have seen first hand how all these issues can really take away from quality of life.

When I was hospitalized with colitis I lost lots of weight. Finally I got to what I considered my goal weight (the magic number I worked so hard most of my life to achieve). I took a long hard look at myself in the mirror and was horrified at what I saw. I looked terrible, tired, and like skin and bones. For a while I could breathe a sigh of relief. That impossible goal I was pushing myself so hard towards was gone.

But that was May. Since I've been out of the hospital I've been struggling each and every day with body image and self esteem (especially as I regain the weight I lost). It's really hard with the media pushing these unhealthy and unrealistic images into our heads all the time. I listen to women on the bus, at work, at restaurants and am amazed at the craziness that comes out of their mouths. "I am so fat. I've eaten like 4 tortilla chips already. I am going to fast all tomorrow so I can fit in that red dress."

So to make a long rant short (like that is possible now), how do you all deal with this? What keeps you going?

[tracey67]

Well, your thread may be OT for this board, but it was way ON topic for how I've been feeling lately. I also struggle daily (hourly?) with body image issues. I'm about 40 pounds overweight and most of this is in my legs. I feel like I've let my weight keep me from doing a lot of things. I subconsciously tell myself "you not perfect enough for that". Then, yesterday I had one of my moments of realizing that this body image thing is ridiculous.

Two days ago, DH and I were going out for the evening. I had just finished putting on my makeup, doing my hair and getting dressed in a pair of slacks and a dressy t-shirt. I looked in our bathroom mirror (so that basically I could just see everything ABOVE my hips) and thought "WOW, I look pretty good!" For a second, I was actually HAPPY with how I looked and was kicking myself for always being so down on myself! THEN...I looked to the bottom of the mirror where I could just see my hips bulging out and thought "ugh!" AND THEN... I thought "this is RIDICULOUS!! I'm happy with so much of myself, how can I let just ONE part of who I am affect EVERYTHING else I do and think?"

Since then, whenever I get down on myself for my weight, I try to think of all the things about myself that I'm happy with and then use those thoughts as a catalyst for motivating me towards good things, rather than using my weight as an excuse for bad feelings or not doing things I want to do. (Does this make any sense? Sometimes, it's so hard to express these thoughts.)

[RobinC]

I think this is a really major issue, and it is an issue I have struggled with for most of my life. I am a big girl (size 18). I know that I am big, and I know that other people know that I am big. Come on! You can tell by looking at me that I am big. I am bothered that size is such a taboo subject. My good friend and mentor at work has lost a very significant amount of weight. Recently I was telling her about my DB mom and SIL. They are small, and seem to have a hard time discussing size with me. My friend suggested that at the next gathering I say something like, "I have something important to tell you. I have VD.........Just kidding. I just wanted to let you know that I am fat." LOL

I work everyday at accepting what I am. I know that I will always struggle with my weight. I know that I will never be a size 6. I know that the average size of women in the US is 14. I know that my size has little to do with my life accomplishments. I try to take pride in my achievements rather than my appearance. I don't watch TV and I stay away from "beauty" magazines.

I wish there was an easy answer, but there isn't. What keeps me going are really simple goals.

I want to make healthy choices 75% of the time.
I will watch the liquid calories (smoothies, sugar sodas, etc.)
I will only weigh myself once a week.
I will write down/journal everything that I eat (and be honest!)
I want to be able to wear pants that do not have elastic in the waistband.
I will be honest with myself about my size.

[BlueMoose]

I don't even want to get started on this topic, because I could literally write a book. Suffice it to say that I had a desperate struggle with this issue during my late teens and most of my 20's. Now, at 32, I have somehow reached a point where I am comfortable with the way I look, I eat a pretty healthy diet, and it is not constantly on my mind anymore. I don't want to say more than that right now because I don't have time and I could go on for hours.

What really scares me is the huge number of anorexic-looking teenage girls I see. There were not nearly this many super thin girls when I was in high school. As the mother of a daughter, how am I to teach her to have a positive self image when everyday the standards that are held before her are super thin women with enormous breasts? Besides being a role model myself and trying to keep these images out of our own house (which is nearly impossible), does anyone have any suggestions?

[m4star]

Whew- so glad I am not alone of this one. It's refreshing to read such intelligent posts from wonderful people. I get so angry about the way women are taught to objectify their bodies that I could just scream! I applaud all of you for having the strength and courage to stand up for what you know is right. When I think of all the time I've wasted in my life worrying about my tummy, my butt, my thighs it really makes me sad. Life is far too precious to waste on vanity like that. I just wish I could remember that all the time.

[Nirak]

This is kind of silly, but growing up I had a huge list of what I couldn't do since I was fat (prob. only 10 - 20 lbs over weight). Anyway, I was convinced that I couldn't dance because I was fat. It wasn't until I was in my 20's that I saw a beautiful large woman dancing her heart out and I realized that I really just didn't have one bit of rhythm in my body. I have gradually been able to let go of some of this, but I still stand sideways and suck in when I look in the mirror. My goal is to be as healthy as possible every day and to explore other ways of feeling good (like yoga, exercize walks, reading) to boost my confidence. I am mother to two daughters and I am scared to death about body issues, etc. My older daughter has been off the charts from the begining and our pediatrician has had me watching her intake since age 3 (she is 8). She is still heavier than her friends despite a very healthy diet. My whole goal is for her to love herself no matter what so she can get through all that peer pressure.

[Nirak]

Oh, I just remembered a quote from a book we read in book group that everyone related to. The author is Anne Lamott and the book is called "Traveling Mercies" anyway, she was trying on a dress for a fancy party and her best friend (who had cancer) was shopping with her. She put the dress on and said "does this make me look fat?" Her friend said, "do you really have time for that?"

[Julia1Pin]

For many of use here, and around the world I would imagine, weight/body image is very much connected, and very much on our minds.

When I was in high school I thought I was fat. I was on diets all the time. My mother and grand-mother encouraged me. I even did WW for a while. Looking back on those pictures I was normal. But these days, normal is not enough. When I moved to Los Angeles from San Francisco, I lost weight, from stress. I went below my drivers license weight for the first time since I was 16.

In the past year, sinceI started working out, I've stepped on the scale twice. Both times were probably 5 lbs. heavier than my lowest weight. The intersting thing is, I lost a size. For the first time EVER I am a size 4. This was always my IDEAL size. Of course now, I look at myself and see that I haven't really lost any weight at all, and am still as "fat" as ever. Yes, I see definition in my arms and legs, but still.... Now my goal, is to be a size 2. (Before anyone groans, I am 5'2". At my heaviest I was a size 8 trying to fit into a size 6. But on me it looks like a size 14).

I realize thankfully that I love food WAY TOO much to ever give it up, so I won't ever be skinny without working out (the healthy way). But lately, I've been thinking about this society whereI am SOOO brainwashed to think that being a size 4 is fat. I look at my niece, who's 10, and is strong enough to do push up's upside down standing on her hands, and she thinks she's fat. I also look at these girls in the mall who are all wearing barely there clothes, and I feel bad for them. No matter how messed up our image of perfection was, theirs is worse.

But the question remains, what do we do about it, when we're as caught up in body image as they are?

(Sorry for the long ramble)

[hlao23]

Just to chime in from the other side - being "willowy" ain't all it's cracked up to be. I know from a societal standpoint it is somewhat of a blessing but the insecurities come regardless. At 5'7'', 120 lbs (32 yo) I become self-critical of how gaunt I look. Obviously I don't know what it's like to be overweight, but people seem to feel free to tell me that I'm too skinny, lanky, whatever and that I should eat more. God forbid anyone should see me eating salad or veggies - "What are you eating that for? You don't need to lose weight. You should be eating _______."

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm whining. I do know that there are a lot of health issues and prejudices that people who are overweight have to deal with that I don't. I did want to point out that no one is immune to self-doubt and esteem issues related to their physical selves.

Maybe this is different for thin people with big boobs but I doubt it. :)

[lindrusso]

It's a continuing struggle, but I think I'm slowly but surely changing my image of my physical self. In high school and college, I was quite thin (not necessarily in good shape, just thin) and wore a size 2 or 4. My mind still thinks about those days, but my body has left those days far, far behind ;) . At my worst, I was at 150 - and as Julia1pin pointed out, on a 5'1" body, it looks like a lot more and is in the beginnings of the "obesity" category on the charts (for whatever they are worth). At the present, I am at a healthy weight - I would like to gain more definition and perhaps lose a bit more weight, but if the scale did not budge a bit, I could live happily at this weight.

My struggle is to give up the image of what I think I "should" look like and to focus on overall health. Being at a certain weight will NOT make me a better person and will not magically bring happiness (unless I am already happy in other areas of my life, which thankfully, I am), but I do have concerns about health and quality of life, especially later in life. I DO NOT want to reach 150 ever again. I was not healthy at that weight - I could not do the things that I enjoyed comfortably. I want to remain physically fit for myself and for my kids. Having all that extra weight slowed me down - I felt tired, I was out of breath more easily, etc., etc. My goal is to keep my weight under control now, before menopause comes along and makes it even more difficult.

I had two grandmothers that were at complete opposites of the spectrum. One who was physically inactive and not very healthy and one who could still out-hike us all at 70 years and up!! I want to be like the active grandma and enjoy my life. Not to mention all the other worries that weight can bring like diabetes, etc.

So, in a very long-winded manner, I guess I'm trying to say that I feel that if you can focus on your overall health (as in eating and exercising because it's good for you) and not on the scale, you can more easily let go of those unattainable and self-defeating images. Do it because you want to be physically fit and healthy, not because you want to be a size 2. Or at the very least, use size 2 as a goal because that's a healthy weight for you, not because you think you should look that way. Easier said than done - like I said, it's a struggle!

[SClementson]

This thread is so timely for me. I was reading JeAnne's (Greysangel) thread and the posts in response, and I was horrified at the number of BBers who have been moooed at while they're jogging, called "ugly", or "dogs", "fat girl", etc. This last week I've been re-landscaping my front yard in 90 degree heat, and so have been wearing shorts while I work - I couldn't believe it when I got wolf-whistles!!! This last post from hlao23 sent me over the edge! How can someone look at what someone else is eating and make a judgement, much less a comment about it? Why is it OK for strangers, (and I'm sorry, but in my experience it's usually been men) to make comments about how women look???

I've felt self-conscious ever since grade school about how I looked. I look at pictures now and think "Wow! I looked great!". I, too, felt like I couldn't go to the beach. So, on the one hand, I feel so much better knowing how many of you have felt the same way; on the other hand it just makes me sad that so many of us have lost out on great experiences, just because we were so self-conscious.

Sorry for the rant.

[karen w]

Hlao23,
I can relate to your dilemma. Although I am not tall(5'2"), I have been told by people most of my life that I am too skinny. In fact, my father in law used to always harp on me about this until one day while taking a walk with him I let him have it....I told him I have always been a healthy eater, I eat 3 regular meals a day along with snacks, I am happy with who I am, and comfortable with my body so could he please refrain from such negative commentary about me....I've never heard another peep out of him since that incident.

I also have a daughter(she will be 2 next month). Although she is quite young, I, too, worry about how society is going to shape her body image. I have never owned a scale, I get weighed once a year at the gynecologist(except when I was pregnant), but some day my kids may twist my arm and want a scale for themselves. I hope I will be able to instill in them self confidence and pride in themselves instead of in the numbers before that day happens!

So be happy with who you are and what great things your life has to offer and maybe the scale won't seem so important!!

Karen W.

[Otter]

Well I thought I would even out the scale (no pun intended) since this thread is so heavily tipped to those women who feel they are heavy. I would like to make note that not one person wrote that they are sized just right. At best a few wrote that they are accepting of their size, but no one has come right out in the first sentence and stated they were happy with themselves. This is truly the tragedy for women. The heavy women seemed to feel that thin women were not able to carry on a conversation (Alisa) and one thin women stated that society is trying to brainwash us that a size 4 is fat - okay I challenge you to prove that one!

In case you are planning to judge my comments based on what I look like, let me save you the trouble. I look fantastic. I don't care one bit what anyone else looks like - everyone has something and no one has everything. I do care how people treat one another and how we contribute.

I have NO internal struggles with this issue. I have had the occassionaly external struggle: women at the gym have come up and asked me if I had children - to which I replied, "no", then they state (with some satisfaction) "That's why your thin". No.1 - I guess it has nothing to do with the time I put in at the gym and on the running trail. No.2 - I guess no one cares that I actually can't have children. What an incredible waste of energy!

This business of comparing ourselves to others is self defeating and petty. I can assure you that there are smart thin women, less than intelligent fat women and many "types" in between. But keep this in mind ladies: Health, Happiness and peace is what matters and you will never find one ounce of these qualities by observing other people - you find it for yourself.

To all women of all sizes - pick up your ego, focus on yourself - no one else, and get out there and make a difference in the world !

[Mandy]

I totally agree with what most of you has said. In the past 1 - 2 years I've been very aware of my weight, and I have no reason to be that way.

m4star,
I know where you're coming from. I too have health problems. When I was 14 I was in the hospital because of Ulcerative Colitis. I lost a dangerous amount of weight because of the disease. I am 5'2'' (and was then too) and I was only 83 pounds. I was SO sick. After I was released from the hospital and started to get better I gained a very healthy amount of weight. And for the next several years never even thought about my weight. But then as I got a little older my health was up and down and I was going on and off different medications. Some of the meds would make me gain too much weight. And then all of a sudden I became aware of my weight, mostly because I couldn't fit into my clothes. Then I started to loose weight because I wanted to be how I was before. And then all of a suddden my weight became an issue with me. I worry and think about my weight everyday. I know I shouldn't but I do.

It's assuring to hear from all of you that I'm not alone. And I thank you for your suggestions.
Thanks!

[Mandy]

To all women of all sizes - pick up your ego, focus on yourself - no one else, and get out there and make a difference in the world ! [/B][/QUOTE]

Otter-
This is much easier said then done. And I think we need to take the focus off ourselves. We need to focus on the big picture of life, not focus on ourselves and the way that we look. It's like what Nirak said, "She put the dress on and said "does this make me look fat?" Her friend said, "do you really have time for that?"
We need to look at the big picture of life and problems that we face and know that our goal should be as lindrusso said, "I'm trying to say that I feel that if you can focus on your overall health (as in eating and exercising because it's good for you) and not on the scale, you can more easily let go of those unattainable and self-defeating images."

[Otter]

I appreciate your response ! I apparently failed in expressing my though regarding focusing INWARD.

By focusing inward on our health, happiness and peace (faith for most) we can pull energy INWARD which is otherwise being spent on comparison and petty concerns of what "looks" best or acceptable. Shall I just more simply suggest:

Focus inward on the SELF - the whole person and the ego. Ego is not about looks at all, but rather how we view ourselves as a person and contributer.

I agree that we must look at the "big picture" - that is a given.

[Mandy]

Thank you Otter for that clairafication (sp?). I guess I just misunderstood your point. I see what you're saying now. I agree our energy spent on thinking about self image would be better spent focusing inward.

Thanks!

[Julia1Pin]

I am the woman who said that size 4 is fat, by societies standards.

Maybe it's because Ilive in Los Angeles. Most people around me are size 0 or size 2. Everyone I see here, when out at restaurants, or even the malls, are extremely anoreixically (is that a word) thin.

So maybe you're right, it's not society at large as much as it is the society I live in.

:confused:

[Otter]

Julia1pin - From a regional perspective you are so right - consider this one:

I am a part time high-school gymnastics judge. I was at a meet at a school which is 100% african american students. I was judging floor that night and had two students assisting me by running scores. I had the opportunity to hear these two young women chatting candidly to each other - and to my complete suprise these two girls talked non-stop about GAINING WEIGHT. How it was so SEXY to be big and the boys liked big girls, etc etc.

Well, I just sat there and smiled ear to ear - what a treat ! I had never heard young women talk about anything but being skinny and I was just beside myself tickled !!

[Otter]

well I've certainly stirred up enough for one day. All of the thoughts I expressed were with the best intentions, and I appreciate the fantastic responses. At the end of the day, however I still wish just one person would state - "I look great!" Because I believe that the woman who honestly feels this way, is probably not at all "society's ideal" of good looking, but their own - which is all that matters. It's been very fun and interesting ladies - for my first time here. Thank you !

[Alisa]

Okay, Okay...I look great!!!!:D

P.S. Welcome Otter

[Jewel]

I was raised by a woman who put a great deal of emphasis on my looks because she always felt she was ugly, and didn't want me to have the same struggles. In pointing out ways that I could make myself look better (read: not ugly like her) she actually altered my own self-image, and had me believing that I had to put on the extra eye-shadow to bring my eyes out a bit more, and make sure to always wear a panty girdle under my clothes so my tummy would look flat. To my way of thinking, she was telling me that I wouldn't look good UNLESS I did these things.

In most ways I've come to terms with how I viewed myself back then and why, but being a very emotional woman, I turned a lot of that stress inside, and gained about 140 lbs in less than two years back in my very early 20's. It's difficult to go through your 20's hearing "You have such a pretty face, why did you let yourself get so heavy?" and "I'm sure if you put your mind to it you could lose that weight and be happy". Both of those remarks told me that I wouldn't be pretty OR happy until I was thin. Five years ago I lost 100 lbs, and looked better than I had in my entire life. I'm nearly 5'2", and weighed 155-160 and thought I looked wonderful then! Imagine my surprise when I went to a new doctor all excited about losing that 100 lbs, and his nurse said to me..."You know, this is really too much weight for your height, you should seriously think about losing at least 30 lbs". Totally blew that self-esteem I'd built up over the past year while losing the 100 lbs! In the past 7 months I have had two cosmetic surgeries to remove 10 lbs of excess skin and fat rolls from the excessive weight loss, reposition my navel in the right place, and give me a waist and a somewhat flat tummy for the first time in 20 years. You'd think that FINALLY I'd be happy with my body, right? I'm sorry to say, no.

All that has proved to me is that because of my thwarted upbringing and what I perceive as the judgement of others, I will never really be satisfied with myself. I know that I am a wonderful person, I know that I am attractive physically to my husband, and I know I have some appealing physical traits; however, even though I know these things, there is still that voice in the back of my head that says I will never truly be happy until I can look in the mirror and see what I deem as "good enough". Now that I have the waist and the flatter stomach, suddenly my boobs look more huge than ever, my arms look huge, and I feel like my thighs look bigger. I know for a fact that even if I lose 30 lbs and lose the cellulite, I'll find something else that I don't like. It's all in my head, it's not anything that I can really change...it's just me! I'm trying very hard to look at myself and see the woman and not the monster breasts or the huge thighs, but it's a very tough mirror I'm looking into...I wish I could change, but I don't see it happening any time soon! We're all too hard on ourselves, but that's just human nature I believe!

[food girl]

I just go through reading Tuesdays with Morrie. Here is a favorite line:

"The culture we have does not make people feel good about themselves. And you have to be strong enough to say if the culture doesn't work, don't buy it"


If you haven't read the book I highly recommend it.

Hey Otter,
I bet a lot of readers were shocked by your profession of fantasticness! We are so trained to put ourselves down and over-hype the bad! Thanks for your post!

Lisa

I look great too!!!

[mandarin2j]

I think the hard part about valuing yourself is that insecurity leads so many of us to view ourselves in comparison to others. Thus, for me to feel like I'm fantastic, I must believe that you're too thin, or fat, or blonde, etc. When I was reading Jewel's message, I was thinking, "yeah, big boobs can be a drag (Who knew, back when I was a B-cup longing for more, that they could be such a pain at times?!), but at least we (the big boobed of the world) have more buoyancy than the skinny minnies!" But then I thought, "what am I doing?" & "Why does feeling good about myself need to hinge on how I can contrast myself & my situation with other people's?"

I can't honestly say I'm happy with my body every day--some days are definitely better than others, for lots of reasons...my mood, PMS, how active I've been...all those things play into my body image. But one thing I'd like to be able to do is to see others and not be envious, not compare myself with them, and not need to look for the flaws they may have in order to prop myself up. I'd like my body image to be based more on what I can do, more than what I look like. Actually, that's something that is happening as I become more active. The body image thoughts ("I'm not there yet/I'll never get there," that kind of stuff) that always poisoned my healthy living efforts before are less pressing this time. I feel stronger, therefore I am stronger, even if the muscles don't show yet. I'm not happy with the way my clothes look on me all the time, but I don't expect to be. More importantly, I'm happy with and proud of the effort I'm making to become a healthier person, and that will inevitably improve my self-esteem.

-Amanda

[KValley]

I have found a deepening appreciation and love for my body as I grow older (I'm 32) - moving beyond the need to be thin and embracing the desire to be strong and healthy. I was never athletic as a child or teen, but now as I develop the confidence to challenge myself mentally and physically I can do things I never thought possible. No, I don't weigh what I did when I was 22, but I can still fit into that wedding dress and I am stronger and healthier than I have ever been. I have stamina, muscle definition, body confidence. I also have moments of profound insecurity; I count my calories perhaps too obsessively;I'd love to lose 6-7 pounds for no reason other than ego; I get scared of what pregnancy will do to my form; I resent my job for interrupting my routine when I travel and have to eat out/not have access to a familiar gym. But my life's goals are to age with strength and fitness- physical, spiritual and mental- and to raise my family with the same values of health and love of life.

I too want to be like lindrusso's grandma, powering my way up mountains when I am 70!

And Otter, since you have so mindfully encouraged us to celebrate ourselves: at a recent kickboxing class, one of our drills was to see how many roundhouse kicks we could land on the punching bag in one minute. I was bested only by a 20 year old guy with a black belt in karate.

Yeah, I look pretty great, thanks! :D

[Otter]

I'm inspired by what I've read since I logged on last - I just got back from a run - and I must tell you that each of your posts were on my mind as I ran. This is no small topic and to listen to what pains each of you about your physical appearance has been enlightening. I truly admire the honesty and courage that so many of you demonstrate. I've learned today to take a more sensitive approach to those battling with their self-image - so thank you !

KValley - Congrats on kicking butt !!! What a great feeling!!

[browneye]

Originally posted by Jewel

All that has proved to me is that because of my thwarted upbringing and what I perceive as the judgement of others, I will never really be satisfied with myself. I know that I am a wonderful person, I know that I am attractive physically to my husband, and I know I have some appealing physical traits; however, even though I know these things, there is still that voice in the back of my head that says I will never truly be happy until I can look in the mirror and see what I deem as "good enough". Now that I have the waist and the flatter stomach, suddenly my boobs look more huge than ever, my arms look huge, and I feel like my thighs look bigger. I know for a fact that even if I lose 30 lbs and lose the cellulite, I'll find something else that I don't like. It's all in my head, it's not anything that I can really change...it's just me! I'm trying very hard to look at myself and see the woman and not the monster breasts or the huge thighs, but it's a very tough mirror I'm looking into...I wish I could change, but I don't see it happening any time soon! We're all too hard on ourselves, but that's just human nature I believe!

Jewel-I've never seen ya. But I can tell you, you are truly one of the most delightful people with a heart of gold and an incredible sense of humor. I would nominate you for "miss congeniality" on this BB for sure. For what it's worth, I think you look great! From the inside out. :D

I don't think I overly obsess about my body or anything. I am definitely heavier than I was at 25, of course, not fat, but definitely not "skinny". I'm not too worried about it, I just watch those points and workout. Anyway. .. I was at a concert hall here in Seattle with my husband (dressed up kinda snazzy that night) and walked past two women to go to the restroom while he waited outside the door. He told me afterwards that one woman turned to the other and said "that was sure an attractive woman, it seems there are really some pretty women in Seattle!" and the second woman agreed! My dh said "yeah, she is, isn't she, she's my wife!" I guess I look okay! SOOO, my point is, not everyone is believing that a size two 29 year old superskinny anorexic girl is the picture of beauty!

:D

[LGBurns]

Hm. Does it mean that I have a negative body image if I look in the mirror and think, "I should really be working out more"? Does it mean that I have a positive body image if I look in the mirror and think, "I look good today!"?

This discussion is very interesting to me because I do a particular kind of therapy called bio-energetic therapy. The theory behind it is that the emotional injuries that we suffer in our lives cause us to block energy (some would say chi) in certain areas of our bodies. These blocks create our individual body structures (which can include our weight) and are our ways of defending ourselves. The therapist works with you to identify the injuries and then identify where the pain (sadness, anger, humiliation, whatever) is held in your body and helps you begin to release that energy through certain exercises. It sort of is like a combination of mental and physical therapy (that's a simplistic analysis but gives a good sense of the work that's done).

I bring this up because I think my responses to my body have so much to do with where I am emotionally, and that's why some days I feel great and some days I feel like poop. Now, society definitely plays a part but even more than that, how my mother felt about her body and how she imparted those attitudes on me has much more to do with it in my opinion.

I know that's not an answer to the question but it's what occured to me and I wanted to share.

[kima]

Wow- doesn't it say something that almost 410 people have viewed this thread! Obviously this is a hot topic. I have definately suffered from low self esteem about my looks- not my weight per se but the way my body is put together. I was a serious athlete growing up (running and hurdles). I weight trained in the early 70's and believe me there were very few girls in the gyms then. My legs were (and sorta still are) very muscular and developed. At trackmeets I felt proud of my build- and loved the bodies of the older more mature athletes. At school it was a very different matter. I was constantly called "football legs" by both girls and boys- that became my nickname. I am no beauty (in the conventional sense) which in high school meant perfct skin long flowing hair , perfect teeth , and endless long legs. I lived in two worlds back then.
In my twenties I had my two girls and bounced back into shape quickly and easily. Quite flat chested I nursed both for at 18 months. I was proud of who I was but still compared myself to "perfect looking" women. I was under the very false assumption that beautiful people have perfect lives. I came to know a very beautiful and fit woman through an exercise class. At first I felt very uncomfortable because she was so pretty.As we got to know each other I learned what a troubled marriage and life she had. She also had a an eating disorder. She envied me!!
Well I could ramble on but now that I am 43 I have changed the tape in my head to a positive one. I am HEALTHY_ number one I am STRONG and worrying about I look is so boring!! I have alot to do and see in this world and I have no time to waste on such nonsense. Wouldn't people in third world countries like our trivial concerns. I don't judge people by how they look so I don't have time for people who judge me!
All that said- I just saw a picture of Jennifer Aniston in Vanity Fair- time to play the positive tape again:p

[BlueMoose]

Originally posted by kima

Well I could ramble on but now that I am 43 I have changed the tape in my head to a positive one. I am HEALTHY_ number one I am STRONG and worrying about I look is so boring!! I have alot to do and see in this world and I have no time to waste on such nonsense. Wouldn't people in third world countries like our trivial concerns. I don't judge people by how they look so I don't have time for people who judge me!
All that said- I just saw a picture of Jennifer Aniston in Vanity Fair- time to play the positive tape again:p

This really captures what I wanted to add to what I posted earlier. I have found so much more to spend my time on than worrying about my weight and how I look. I'm happy where I am now and my DH thinks I look great!

I probably risk being stoned if I say this, but I have come to believe that this obsession with weight and looks is a symptom of how self-absorbed and self-centered we have become as a society. It's fine to want to be healthy and be within a normal weight range, but the obsession with being perfect, that's another matter.

[KValley]

Chrisi,

No stones thrown here. I agree completely. l lived in Central Africa as a Peace Corps volunteer, in a country where starvation was a daily reality and nutrition meant you might eat fresh fruits or vegetables once a week, or eat the same fruit or vegetable for weeks on end because that's all that could be grown; where a round belly, but painfully thin arms and legs on a child was a certain sign of malnutrition but a round belly and full hips on a woman was prized, as it meant good health.

During the months I spent there, I was without a mirror, wore no makeup, rotated 3 outfits, took a shower by pouring water over my head, one cup at a time. How incredibly liberating it was to let go of vanity, but liberating only for a woman who knew her time there was temporary- certainly not so for the Chadian women who would only know poverty and whose life span was an average of 48 years. This experience has served as a reminder of how truly easy I have it, how blessed I am- a lesson and images I know I will never forget.

I just ran across this article from Runner's World web site about working to accept the bodies we have- it seemed very a propos to this discussion.

http://www.womens-running.com/concerns/best_body.html

Cheers,

Julie

[Jen]

I don't have much to add - I too have struggled with all the body issues out there and have very much enjoyed reading all your responses!

BlueMoose, have you heard of the book "Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls"? I haven't read it myself, but I remember when it first came out it was talked about a lot and received lots of favourable reviews. (The link to the book on Amazon is at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345392825/qid=995682596/sr=2-1/002-4678230-8324015). Anyway, it deals with a lot of these issues. Not having kids yet myself, I'm certainly no expert, but maybe it would give you some ideas about steering your daughter in the right direction, body-image-wise? Just a thought.

Jen

[kima]

Thankyou Julie for sharinig your experience in Africa- you conveyed the thoughts Iwas trying to share much more eloquently. Thankyou also for the article in Runner's World. I will print it oiut. I particularly enjoyed the part about describing someone you know- I only see the essence of people after my intial meeting and never describe them physically. I have met many people who may be considered conventionally pretty but because I know them I don't view them that way. and vice versa. Of course everyone here at these BBS is spectacular!!:D

[Jewel]

Originally posted by browneye


Jewel-I've never seen ya. But I can tell you, you are truly one of the most delightful people with a heart of gold and an incredible sense of humor. I would nominate you for "miss congeniality" on this BB for sure. For what it's worth, I think you look great! From the inside out. :D


Thanks Browneye, I appreciate the atta-girl and the kind words. I think you're pretty snazzy yourself!! (((Group Hug))) :D

[JulieM]

Originally posted by BlueMoose
As the mother of a daughter, how am I to teach her to have a positive self image when everyday the standards that are held before her are super thin women with enormous breasts? Besides being a role model myself and trying to keep these images out of our own house (which is nearly impossible), does anyone have any suggestions?

That's an interesting question and I really had to stop and think. Being in the commercial film industry for 25 years, I've been surrounded by models. In that world it's difficult not to get swept up into the idea you have to be pencil thin to be attractive and have value! So the reason I had to stop and think is because I don't feel that way now and I was trying to figure out when and why that changed. About 10 years ago I realized that because I was the one with the responsibility of buying and preparing the food for myself and my DH, I needed to educate myself about what was healthy and feed us that way. So for one thing my magazines changed from Cosmo and Shape, to Cooking Light, Natural Health, Health, and Vegetarian Times. And my bookshelf changed to include several of Dr. Weil's books, an herb bible, etc. With our daily emphasis on health, I don't think so much about being skinny for beauty anymore, but instead wish to be a healthy weight (I need to lose 30 pounds). So naturally exercise is important in our life too, but not to be thin, but to be more healthy. So I guess what I'm saying is, if you're trying to have an influence on a child, maybe having good habits for health be a part of the family conversation, habits and reading materials may have an effect!

[Gina O]

I woke up this morning, put on my running gear, streched and did something I have never done before and was not sure I could do. I ran 5 miles in 45 minutes without stopping to walk. I was elated. While a baby step in my overall running progress, it was still a huge milestone for me. At that moment, I felt strong and fit and in love with my body.

But, in a few minutes, I will head to the bathroom for a shower. I will stand naked in front of the mirror and see the parts of my body I don't like. I will probably step on the scale for the second time today. I will not be happy with the number I see.

If I could flip a switch that would make me stop being so critical of my body I would do it in a second. I want to be happy with my body, but it always seems that a statement like that is followed by a bunch of "if onlys". I know that at 5'4", 130 lbs, size 6, I have nothing to complain about, but..... (trying not to insert several complaints here).

Julie - thanks so much for the article from RW. I too plan to print it out... and reread it frequently. The information about accepting genetics is the hardest for me. I have an older and younger sister, both slightly taller and thinner than I, and neither have ever been really heavy (I have.) I want to be the thin one, but they always have me beat. I guess my reasoning is always that if they can do it, why can't I. The genetics can't be that much different.

I do love my body. I love what I can do with it, and most of the time I feel very attractive. I just need to stop the "buts" and "if onlys". Gina

[Jessica]

I came back to this thread because I have had a few really bad days in terms of body image.

My story is probably so familiar it is boring. I was a thin (size 4-6) teenager but not active or particularly healthy. I just never thought about weight or got on a scale. Right after college, I was very depressed and unsure of my direction and I gained nearly 30 pounds in two years.

I have been trying to lose that weight since 1995, and am 10 pounds off the highest number and have been for a while. I hit bottom when I tried to lose weight for my wedding at the same time that I was moving, changing my job and buying my first house. I lost a few pounds but I did not have that "dream look" for the wedding.

Somehow, I turned into a person who judges herself by her weight. Not only that, I constantly compare myself to others. My brother's fiancee has the figure I had in high school, only she kept it, and she was talking about trying on size four wedding gowns and I wanted to cry.

My point in all of this is that you wonderful women (and men) make me realize how pointless and self-destructive these thoughts and feelings are. As someone said, "do I really have time for this?" You all keep me out there fighting for a positive self-image, even on days when this seems impossible.

Thanks for being such a terrific source of support.

[KValley]

Jessica-

<<<<<<<<<<<<HUG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

:) :) :)

[hka]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I too struggle with all the same issues that you all have. I'm also trying to change my thinking. I just keep reminding myself that I choose to eat right and exercise because I want to be healthy. If I happen to lose some inches then that's great but if not, that's okay too because I know that I'm healthy and that's the most important thing. It's a struggle everyday but I'm getting better at it! Thanks goes out to all you women who have shared your stories. I'd say most women do feel some insecurities at one time or another no matter how thin they might be. It really is our society that we live in and it's a daily challenge to not let it influence you. There are definitely much more important things in life.

Also, I have read "Reviving Ophelia" because my step-daughter had an eating disorder. It's a very interesting book. It's something that wouldn't be bad for both a mother and a daughter to read. However, if someone has an eating disorder as my step-daughter did, we soon found out that we could read all the help books we could and take her to counseling, but unless she really wanted help and wanted to change, then nothing would. Luckily, she seems to have made the effort and hasn't had any issues for a few years now. Lots of praying involved! :)

[rolling pin]

Hello BB'ers -- I just read about you recently in the latest CL, and had to view for myself what you all are chattin' about! I wandered onto the Way OT -self esteem/body issues topic because I was curious as to what OT meant, and figured the rest, being self-explanatory, could be insightful, as well. As I'm reading the many postings, and empathizing with all of them, I have one hand on the keyboard and the other one on my spoon, THOROUGHLY enjoying the blueberry-lemon pudding cake from CL 6-01. Feeling torn between the pleasure of my dessert, and the reality that I, too, sometimes don't like my reflection, I decided to add my two-cents-worth! First of all, Otter, you are the bomb! Your posting was great. What a positive message from which everyone can benefit. I will add your positive reinforcement to my newly acquired motto: PAY YOURSELF FIRST. We all know the role we take as women typically means taking care of others, and leaving ourselves dead last. So, I'm making a real effort to make time for myself first thing in the day, so that I don't get left out! Lastly, something to think about... A woman I know had a gastrectomy (or gastric bypass) just over a year ago. She has lost an incredible amount of weight, and looks beautiful. I saw her at Christmas, and couldn't give her enough compliments. She looked wonderful! Sadly, though, she wasn't "happy" with her looks, and has since been planning for braces and a tummy-tuck! I can't help but wonder if she'll opt for a heart transplant in her search for happiness... Smile; God doesn't make junk.

[Beth H]

It's interesting how much women struggle with their body image. I wonder if men (deep down) have the same feelings. If a man is 15 -30 lbs overweight, people sort of chuckle about his "beer belly." Yet if a woman is somewhat overweight, she is described in negative terms like "pudgy" or "big."

I don't consider myself influenced by the media, yet I also wish that I could return to my "ideal" weight (I'm about 10 lbs over where I want to be). Yet, I'm healthy, walk every day, and eat sensibly most of the time. I think most of us on this board are probably very health-conscious and even if we aren't that "perfect" weight, we're still healthier than the average person.

Very thought-provoking thread.

[daner94]

I have read all of your posts, and I appreciate everyone sharing. I wanted to add my 2 cents, if I may.

I am really good about working out. I try to do some sort of workout 5 times a week. However, I am really bad about refraining from putting things in my mouth that are not good for me, and I tend to overindulge. So I could probably stand to lose about 30 pounds or so. (I am 5' 9" and big boned--really!) I have a hard time looking in the mirror a lot. I feel like I can be hyper critical so I just try to avoid doing that.

I do not have a boyfriend right now, and I feel like I have had problems with guys because of my size, whether or not that is the case, I will never know. But it hangs over my head all the time... if I was just a little thinner there would be someone in my life. This is a terrible way of thinking and I am working on getting over that!

I do have 2 points actually. I got a great compliment yesterday about my shape, how I was tall and curvy, like a woman should be, and that I had great legs. I heard it second hand and I knew this person was sincere. It made me really happy, especially because I just don't see it that way.

My other point is that I am strong and healthy. And that is really all that matters, isn't it?

Thanks for letting me say my piece. :)

Dana

[Laura]

Very interesting topic. I have been thin all my life simply because of genes. I am tall (5'8") and for most of my life have weighed between 120-130. Now I weigh closer to 140 and it is really bugging me. I am almost 39 and in better physical health then I ever was in college in terms of my cardiovascular health and strength, yet I still am working to lose those 10 pounds. It seems odd; I can look in the mirror somedays and think wow, I look pretty good then other days, I obsess because my definition in my hamstrings in not what I desire. I don't think my self esteem is based on my weight as I feel I have accomplished a lot in life and none of it had anything to with what I looked like, so why is it that I won't cut myself some slack. Last year on a Healthy Living page poll I stated one of my goals was to cut myself some slack regarding my body image. Guess I still have to work on that.

After re-reading my posts and others I wanted to add this. About 3 years ago my kids (ages 9 and 7 then) and I were flying to LA. Our flight had been delayed many times and we were getting into LA well past midnight and would then need to drive about another hour to our destination. The kids and I were both cranky and tired. Anyway I was trying to do various things on the flight to keep them amused. When we got off I was standing around with the kids getting something and a man who had been sitting behind me came up to me and said "You're a great mom" and then walked away. I will never forget him or his compliment. When I look at my thighs or stomach and sigh, I do try and remember what is really important.

[Pat]

Hey, food girl, you DO look great. I sat with you at the meet the editors at the CL weekend and you are a delightful young woman both inside and out.

I must comment that I have struggled with body image my entire life. My mother is 5'3" and skinny as a rail. Wears a size 2 and needs a 0. My father was a large boned, tall, heavy man and I fall in the bottom middle. I am 5'5" and weigh 150 at the present. My gyn. told me to "push back", meaning to eat less so that I could lose weight. I have RA and need to keep weight off the joints. However, I am a happier person when I can eat more than 2 lettece leaves a day so I guess I will remain at this weight or thereabouts, as long as the clothes continue to fit.

As a young mother I weighed 120 lbs. and looking at my mother thought I was huge. I look back now at photos of myself and discover that I was not as fat as I felt.

Besides my petite mother, my sister-in-law is 4'11" and is skin and bones (diets like a fiend), and the lady that I worked with for 25 years is not much bigger (diets and works out like a fiend). How can you not feel large when three of the people you see most are such petite women.

Anyway, applying all that psychology that I learned in school and being retired and not with my co-worker all day every day, I now am happy with the way I look (just need to keep those doctors off my back)! Sure, I'd like to be rail thin but then again, I'd like to be 20 again also. These two fall in about the same category with me. I can laugh and go on.

[Kelli Kerrigan]

First, I'd like to say that everyone here is a beautiful person. Thanks for sharing so much and for being so honest.

I'd like to point out that in the April 2, 2001 PEOPLE magazine, many actresses were featured saying that they WANT curves, that they enjoy eating a meal and laughing and enjoying life. Check it out if you get inspired by actresses.

How each person views themself is a very important part of life and also what we let into our lives and believe.
As a child, my Father would sit across the dinner table and say things like "Ok Cow, have another glass of milk/portion of food, who cares if you get fatter?" Needless-to-say, some people do not help improve ones self image.
Well, I lost weight and have gained some back. I do work out and love it. I also love food. I know what it will take for me to feel better and be the healthiest person I can be and that will take a lifetime. It's not a diet, its a way of life. I'm going to enjoy the journey because it is the only one I have at this time. I will love myself everyday and if I have a 'down' day I will look to someone who knows me well to help brighten my day. We are never alone or unloved.

After 12 years of not speaking to my Father, we are now speaking again. Although not for long. A couple conversations ago he asked me if I had gained a lot of weight now that I have an office job again. Some people will NEVER get it. Since verbal actions like that assult my soul and NOT my shell, he will no longer have the opportunity to converse with me again. Life is too short to hang with that kind of crap.

My 87 year old Gram (she had 5 kids, never went to the doctor...actually had three boys all under the age of 1 yr, never took meds) that is dying of cancer, often asks me why people have gotten so big over the years. I tell her it is lifestyle. When she had those little kids her life was so different from what ours is like today. Think about that for a minute or so. Her life was much more demanding yet simple and very fulfilling. 'Convience' has passed over good hard work that kept us healthy and probably, happy. (sigh)

Try SMILING at yourself the next time you look in the mirror. We are always our worst critic. Don't give up the great times in this life. Soon you'll be 87 and dying of something and wondering how and why the world has changed. Go find the largest hill to climb and smell the flowers along the way.

Peace

[m4star]

Well it's been a few days since I posted this thread and I'm pleased to see that so many people have responded. It makes me feel less alone.

Some comments/thoughts:

Even though actresses are saying in magazines that they want curves and are gaining some weight, the average woman wears a size 14. The average size in Hollywood is 2. I have also read an article in People recently about the "fat" actresses. They were talking about Kate Winslet, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Jennifer Lopez! I even read Elizabeth Hurley remark once that if she was ever as fat as Marilyn Monroe she'd "kill herself". The media is setting impossible images of "health and beauty". But then again, isn't it our money that feeds the media? I'd love to see women stand up for their beliefs and not support things that conflict with our morals, beliefs, and values.

I think I get into trouble when I start comparing myself to others. I know I need to look inside and realize that I am healthy, fit, and strong. It's just really tough sometimes. And yes, this all does come from lack of self-esteem. I grew up in a family that did not teach us to respect ourselves. So to all mothers/fathers reading this, PLEASE teach your children to value themselves for who they are- flaws and all. Most of my adult life has been influenced by scars from my childhood.

And last, I think all of you are great. This is the most intelligent, caring, funny, and compassionate group of people I've never met!

[AmyMcP]

This is my motto. It is true. The important thing is to be healthy - there are healthy size 14-16 people. I waiver between a 10 and 12 and I too have issues!!1 Isn't that sad? But I have a wonderful family, a great job and currently a wonderful boyfriend who adores for WHO I AM...not what size I am.

Now for a poll - does anyone else wonder why when stores have clearance sales that the only sizes available are 2s, 4s and 6s? :rolleyes:

[AmyS]

Today, Oprah re-ran an episode that focused on vanity..there were women who could not go out in public without all of their makeup on, women who felt they were ugly unless they were tan and ultimately suffered from skin cancer....and a woman who put all of her value in her hair. lost it as she fought breast cancer, and is now proud of her baldness....the one thing that struck me is that she said she looked in the mirror when she lost all of her hair and realized that she was seeing what God sees.......
I think that if we all keep that kind of perspective on our own reflections, it may help with some of the insecurities we have about our appearances......
I have been reading these posts for a few days now and since I started reading, I have been feeling more confident and less concerned about what others are thinking....thank you all for your honesty....
Amy C:D

[Nirak]

Over the last few days this thread has made me think alot. I have purposely tried to take a slow and steady approach to weight loss because I want this time to be the last time. I have two daughters and I want them to love themselves for who they are but as I see my older daughter struggle with food & weight it is very difficult. Earlier this week I found myself trying on bathing suits with them in the dressing room. It was tough to choose a suit without saying the "fat" word. I am what I am, and it isn't the suit that is going to make me look fat or not. They talked me into a tankini and instead of saying, "oh, not until I loose 10 more lbs." I found myself saying OK. I love my new suit because it is comfortable and it offers more support than some of my one-pieces. I loved it when they said, "mom, you look great." As I walk around the pool club, I try to keep those little voices in my head instead of imagining critical voices coming from the other adults. If we aren't all in this together, than what's the point?

[hlao23]

Originally posted by AmyMcP
Now for a poll - does anyone else wonder why when stores have clearance sales that the only sizes available are 2s, 4s and 6s? :rolleyes:

This must be a "point of view" thing. I wear a size 6. Everytime I see clearance items most of them seem to be size 10 or above with only a few items size 8 and under. Maybe we're both just going to the wrong stores. :D

[kirkbyky]

m4star--Amen!! Bravo!!

This is an excellent post, the responses are really wonderful.
I think it's a shame that the last 'taboo'/acceptable discrimination is fat. Well, I am fat. I am a 6', 200+ lb, size 18-wearin' amazon! I take up space. I say what I think. I am silly, smart, tall, funny, groovy, curvy, thoughtful, kindhearted, and fat. I'll be d#*n'd if I'm going to let society tell me that I am less of a human being because I don't look like Jennifer Lopez--who, incidentally is absolutely gorgeous despite her butt being too big for Hollywood!:confused: . WE are the ones who judge. WE are the ones who buy the magazines. So we can't always blame it on Hollywood--our society is an active participant in the self esteem of women. And yes, that includes me, too.
I hear girls (young and older) talk about how their boyfriend won't like them if they gain weight etc, & I've asked "Has he said this? If so, Leave!! Run for the Door!", and most reply "Well, nooo, but......(insert excuse here). The average size of women is 14, so all those guys can't be that upset about body image, they still are here, loving us for who we are. I think we really put the pressure on ourselves & its fed by the media in the name of vanity and competition. What a shame!
I have a loving DH & I agonize over my housekeeping skills-hate to wash dishes, and my 'amazon-ness'- I can be bossy as hell. But I am grateful everyday that he has never made me feel bad because of my weight-he loves me curvy & round, and would still love me if I were thin as well. AMEN!
Whew!:eek: thanks for listening (reading:p )
Kyle

[SandyM]

<ahem>

Kyle?

YOU GO GIRL!

(Sorry, just wanted to say that.)

This is a great discussion, and I love hearing what others have to say about it. I deal with self-doubt and concerns about my body image every day. Not every waking hour, but it's always there.

I don't know that it will ever change - I guess I'm just used to it.

[HedyL]

Originally posted by hlao23


This must be a "point of view" thing. I wear a size 6. Everytime I see clearance items most of them seem to be size 10 or above with only a few items size 8 and under. Maybe we're both just going to the wrong stores. :D


I agree....I'm a size four petite and when I look at the clearance rack my size is long gone....just see size 8 and above. sometimes a 6 (too big) or a 2 (just not happening).:)

[AZLorena]

I just wanted to thank you ....I have been sitting with my "BIG BUTT" in this chair reading this thread.

I am too a Big girl of 200+ lbs. I have been overweight for a long time. Before I met my wonderful husband I felt that the reason I could not find someone to love is that I was too heavy. Of course, I didn't want to be with someone who judge me solely on my outward appearance.

Anyway, time went by and I decided to let go of the insecurities. That is when I met my husband. We were instantly inseperable. He thinks that I am beautiful no matter what....he says he fell in love with what's on the inside.

I guess my point is that all of those nasty insecurities really can get in the way of living your life. And that "fat"/"big" girls can find love and happiness, too.....or at least I did.