Help with starting a herb & vegetable garden on my patio

[mb]

i have a huge screened patio (w/ strong morning sun), and i'd like to start growing some herbs & vegetables out there (definitely at least tomatoes & basil, 2 of our favorites!) i'm not sure how to get started though... we live in south florida, so it's pretty warm year-round. now, it's really hot, and i don't know if now is a good time to start...

how big of a pot will i need for tomatoes? will they even grow on my patio?!? what other kinds of vegetables might i be able to grow? do i just buy a pack of seeds at home depot?!

as you can see, i'm a gardening novice! any help is greatly appreciated!

tia,
mb :)

[SandyM]

Hiya Marisa,

How's the baby?

You can buy what's called "patio tomatoes", a plant (note: not seed) expressly for this purpose. In Michigan, it's a little late to think about starting plants, but probably not in Florida. You can also probably grow peppers, since they don't get huge in height. Cucumbers are creepers, unless you get the bush kind, and I don't think even they are good for pot growing. Umm...maybe I should say container growing......

I've not done patio gardening before (besides flowers) so I'm not sure about the size of the pot, but I'm sure someone at a nursery can help you with that, along with what type of soil to use.

As far as herbs, it's probably a free for all. Even your grocery store should carry herbs in pots.

Good luck!!!

[deb]

mb, we have a deer problem in our neighborhood (they eat almost everything) so we grow peppers and basil on our 2nd story deck. They grow as well as they do in the ground. The only we do different is we water twice a day (once before we go to work and then again when we get home) when it's really hot like it is now. We live in the midwest...I think your summers are hot and humid like ours. I have grown tomatoes on a deck they grew quite well also, but I do not have the room now since are deck is full of flowers. We started our basil from seed and bought pepper plants from the nursery. I think if I were to try and start seed right now in this hot weather, I would start them inside in a sunny location. You should definitely give it a try. Good luck!

[SusanT]

Before I had a yard, I tried to grow tomatoes under similar conditions (strong morning sun) and had no luck with them. Tomatoes need 8 hours of direct sunlight in order to thrive. Some herbs may do ok under those conditions but fast growing herbs like basil may need more light.

Tomatoes have big root systems and need lots of water, so you will need a large (bigger than 12 inches) pot. Plastic or wood containers are better than terra cotta which tends to suck the water out of the soil.

Is there any way you can put some containers outside? Due to the hot area, somewhere they could get a little shade in late afternoon (after 5:00 p.m.) would be good.

[mb]

thanks for the tips! i asked my mom and she said she used to grow STRAWBERRIES on her patio a long time ago! i thought that was a great idea! now i just have to find out how to start those, too! :)

[lorilei]

Honestly, you can grow almost anything in a container if you pay attention to individual growing conditions and requirements.

I've grown everything from tomatoes to herbs to eggplants with great success.

I'd encourage you to get a book on container gardening -- take a look at their recommendations for pot sizes and soil mixes. Since the plants are contained and cannot glean nutrients from the soil, you'll need to pay attention to their nutritional needs.

Here's a website or three to get you started:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/contain/

http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandTechniques/container.htm

http://www.msue.msu.edu/msue/imp/mod03/03900093.html

[mb]

thanks, lorilei, i'll check those out now! this is getting exciting! DH thinks i shouldn't bother growing this stuff - he says i should just go to the store & buy tomatoes (or whatever) :rolleyes: ! i think it sounds like a fun hobby though! poo-poo to DH! :p

[SandyM]

Originally posted by mb
thanks, lorilei, i'll check those out now! this is getting exciting! DH thinks i shouldn't bother growing this stuff - he says i should just go to the store & buy tomatoes (or whatever) :rolleyes: ! i think it sounds like a fun hobby though! poo-poo to DH! :p

I'd like to be a fly on your shoulder to watch his reaction when he bites into a home grown tomato, pulled off a plant that you nurtured so lovingly!!! Compare THAT with a store-bought tomato!!

[mb]

thank you, sandym! even my 89 year old grandma thinks growing your own tomatoes is a great idea! :) i'll let you know what happens...

[AmyMcP]

As we speak, I have a patio tomato plant and basil, oregano, parsley and clives on my balcony. I live in Northern Virginia and I get afternoon sun, where my plants sit. However, I did move my patio tomato so that it gets some morning sun - I think the extreme heat in the afternoon was preventing the buds from maturing. I used to live in Charleston, SC, so I know about the heat and humidty. I had success w/ herbs there as well.

I have a long rectangular plastic dish for my herbs - similar to a window box. I got it @ Home Depot in the garden dept. I keep them moist - never let herbs get dry. And use them! I throw them in salads, sauses and pasta. I have a SEPARATE pot for mint. It takes over and is almost impossible to kill.:D

[mb]

the garden guides website looks pretty good. i just printed out some info on container growing, and they also have more specific guides on different vegetables and their care. thanks again, lorilei! what a great place to start! :)

SandyM, i forgot to mention that the baby is doing great. she just turned 8 weeks old yesterday (i can't believe it!) and she's growing like a weed! well, a cute, sweet, lovely weed that you don't want to get rid of! :) thanks for asking!

amy, thanks also for the mint-hint! yikes! it sounds so ruthless for a cute little plant!

marisa

[athena]

While we're on the subject of herbs, I have a similar question. I have a nice porch with morning sun but little else, and bravely started an herb garden there. My basil and parsley are thriving - two herbs that I thought would require a great deal more light than they could get in that location - but lost my tarragon and cilantro (the two I was pretty sure would grow in less than ideal light). Did I misunderstand growing conditions?

Also, does anyone know of a good (but cheap) book to use as a reference in herb gardening?

[lorilei]

Originally posted by athena
Also, does anyone know of a good (but cheap) book to use as a reference in herb gardening?

athena -
Cilantro seems to like sun (at least this has been my experience), and thrives (but bolts) in extreme heat. Basil, I've found, will grow almost anywhere (including in the house) if it's watered well and attended to relatively often.

As for books, I've found the paperback version of this book to be extraordinarily helpful:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0140238026.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

It's The Complete Book of Herbs by Lesley Bremness. It's got great photographs of each herb as well as growing and harvesting tips. The back of the book is FILLED with recipes for herb blends, vinegars and beauty products -- it will give you lots of ways to use up those "extra" herbs :)

[kirkbyky]

Another thought to growing inside a screened patio is pollination, some plants produce fruit w/o (some cukes are bred for this), but some need pollination-either by hand w/ tiny brush or by an insect. Tomato's need to be pollinated-so if you grow them inside, make sure to let them out fairly regularly when they set flowers so the bee's etc can get at them to do their job. Some of those plant pots are heavy-think 5 gal bucket with soil & a huge tomato plant (35-50 lbs) and buy casters (or make your own-it's pretty easy) to move the plants around.
Good Luck!

Kyle

[Julie O]

mb,

I used to live in Gainesville, which is a bit different climate-wise than West Palm Beach, but I thought I should give some Florida-specific tips.

You'll be amazed how many ususual bugs you'll find on your plants. If you're not careful, they will take over. I had a severe aphid infestation. The geckos loved my rosemary, not to eat, but to perch in. It was great camoflague. I also had a catepillar problem. You'll probably want to invest in some insecticidal soap. Even if you plan to have them in a screened-in porch.

The plants will dry out quickly in the heat. Use plastic pots instead of terra cotta. And invest in the fancy self-watering ones. Oh, and put some of the water-absorbing crystals in the soil. That way if you can't water one day, the plants will still get watered.

You'll need very big pots. The patio tomatos do best in a 3-5 gal. pot. Most others need at least 18" to 24" diameter pots. The depth of the pot depends on the plant. Parsley needs a deep pot (grows like a carrot), but mint can be in a shallow pot (by itself, of course). Your plants may grow very quickly, but without nutrients they'll also die quickly, so....

Fertilize, fertilize, fertilize. With all the watering you'll be doing, the nutrients will definitely wash out of the soil, plus the plants use up most of the nutrients within a few weeks. Use one of the slow-releasing kinds.

Some herbs cannot be grown from seed. I wouldn't try rosemary or chive. You cannot buy tarragon seeds (at least not the kind of tarragon you would eat--French), so you'll need to buy a plant of it. Most people who've been growing herbs for a while would recommend that beginners only start with plants not seeds. If you don't have optimum growing conditions, you won't have as much success with seeds.

Hope this helps! Gotta go eat my lunch (with fresh mint from my garden :D ).

[mb]

thanks JulieO, those were some great tips. thanks kyle for the tomato pollination hint. i never would have known...

i've been distracted from my garden-starting this week, but i hope to get it going soon!

thanks again everyone! i can't wait to go buy pots and soil and fertilizer and plants! :)

marisa :)