May Pre-K, K, 1st...

[RunnerKim]

Hi everyone,

We're really late getting started this month! I kept planning to make a post and then not being able to finish it.

Susan - I read your last post on the April thread. That sounds like a rather upsetting situation! Did you see the thread linking to the article about being a helicopter mom vs. free-range kids? I had a informal brown bag discussion with some parents at work around around the article too.

I fall pretty much in the free range side of things (although Lainey's a little young to be too free ranging much) and would have absolutely no problem with Casey playing in your front yard, even without the window/person keeping an eye out. I'm not sure how busy the road is/how fast cars travel but on the face of that doesn't seem to be a big deal to me either. I know how responsible Casey is. Lainey is similar. I will let Lainey go out front by herself but won't let Jamie (or them together) and we live on a very low traffic completely residential street (no through traffic).

I have had several situations where people have become concerned thinking my kids will do something unsafe when I know they're okay. They don't know my kids, how much we walk downtown streets etc. I don't require them to hold my hands but I do require them to not get very far ahead of me and to stop a certain distance back from the intersection (there's a change in brick color that makes this easy to specify). I explain to them that drivers and other people don't know that they know they're going to stop so they have to stop far enough back that people don't get scared.

I even had one woman really get upset that I wasn't holding Lainey's hand across a downtown street - she was 5. We both were carrying things and didn't have a free hand (my office had some extra supplies that they were happy to donate to her school and she was helping me take them over). Lainey was standing calmly by my side and we were waiting for the crossing light. I had absolutely no concern about her safety but this women was quite upset about it and wanted to either hold her hand (yeah right!) or carry the stuff for me.

If this women is around frequently, maybe you can make a pre-emptive call to her supervisor?

Does anyone have fun Mother's Day plans? We traditionally plant our garden this weekend. So tomorrow we'll hit the farmers market to get our plants (before soccer & t-ball) and hopefully have decent weather to get it planted on Sunday.

We've been starting to bike more as a family. We're trying to bike or walk more for errands/activities close to home. We even biked to the transit center for work this week (there was a bike-to-work day event that included a breakfast celebration downtown). It's just over 2.5 miles from our house to the transit center. We have bike lanes for almost the entire way. I haven't done much riding in traffic so was a little concerned about it. DH was pulling both kids in the trailer. He's in much better shape than I am so even with the 100lbs in tow he was way out ahead of me. Traffic wasn't an issue at all. There are a couple of big heals that I had to walk up but those were nice on the way home. We really enjoyed it. What I didn't like was trying to get the bikes and folded down trailer on the train. Not too bad in the morning since we go before it gets really busy but coming home was more challenging. We're going to try to bike a couple of times a week. I'm going to leave my bike in the racks at the transit center - it's a $50 Target special and I almost wish something would happen to it.

I made a game board type path up and the kids are coloring it in for every time we bike or walk instead of taking the car (quarter mile increments). We're shooting for 108.5 miles and our reward is a trip to a kids' theme park (that is that distance away). So it's really not very "green" of us since we're burning the gas, just at another time!

Kim

[JoanneOR]

Hi Kim. Thanks for starting this! Our thread has been pretty slow lately. I didn't see the thread about the helicopter mom vs. the free-ranging mom, but I can guess the difference between the two. I can say I've probably been more of a helicopter mom (always hovering :rolleyes:), but I'm trying to be more free-ranging. This is probably the first year I've let the kids play outside without me there with them and I know that's probably overprotective. Maybe a few times last year I let them outside and I would be in the living room where there's a big picture window and I can watch them. They do go over by the neighbors and play in their backyard by themselves. This summer I'm going to try to let go a little. ;) I don't feel comfortable letting Caitlyn go outside by herself unless Ian is out there with her. He's the most protective and watchful over her. Jameson went over by a friend's house a few weeks ago. There were a few kids there and they all walked to McDonalds by themselves and then to the park. He asked me if he could invite four kids over Monday (they have a half day). I told him that would be fine and they could go to the park if they wanted by themselves. This is a big step for me! I can tell we are too overprotective by something Jameson said last week. DH was making pasta for dinner and realized we didn't have any sauce at the last minute. He asked Jameson to ride on his bike to the store and get some. It's about 4-5 blocks and there's no busy streets to cross. Well, my very intelligent almost 12 year old kid says "they're not going to sell a jar of sauce to an 11-year-old kid all by himself" :eek::D DH got a kick out of that.

We don't have any specific Mother's Day plans. I'm looking forward to my breakfast in bed and gifts the kids made at school. They've already been hinting about them and Caitlyn is just dying to tell me what it is. I don't think she can hold off till Sunday! I think I'll take my mom out to lunch.

Kim, I think your biking plan is great! I'm sure your DH will be happy when the kids are old enough to ride their own bikes, though! I remember when DH used to lug Ian and Jameson around in our trailer with Colin on the back of his bike in the kid seat. Yikes!!

Things are busy as usual for us. Kids are in swimming lessons (I think I posted about Caitlyn's issues with it) and Jameson and Colin are finishing up soccer. I think Jameson is happy this season is just about over. Colin is doing great - he's scored at least one goal in every game. The playoffs start next week.

The kids are going to a couple soccer camps over the summer and then a regular day camp for a few weeks. Jameson got accepted into a math and science program for a week at a college here. They only take a few kids from each district, so I was really excited for him. They are supposedly going to be working with people from NASA.

Time to wrap up the week at work and get ready to go home.

Happy Mother's Day to all and have a great weekend!!

[MrsReber]

Argh! I typed a whole response and then it wouldn't go through when I hit submit! Oh well.

Let's try this again! The woman across the street came over today to talk some more. I guess since I now know the situation, she likes to have someone to vent/talk to. Anyway, she got a surprise visit from the CPS people this morning. Apparently someone called in an annoymous complaint that she was allowing her daughter to run all around with no supervision and that she frequently runs across the street to play with the "two little kids" and that she dumps her daughter on us for free baby sitting! I was appalled! She has NEVER dumped her daughter on us. The times that our kids played together (and it's not all that frequent) it was mutual and we were both there watching all the kids together. I actually left my kids at her house while I made dinner one night and she was fine with that. Her daughter has been here maybe twice without her and each time, she walked over to bring her home after 30 minutes or so. I told her she should've sent them over here to talk to me because those claims are completely false! She now has to go back to court at the beginning of June. She asked if I'd write a letter in her defense. She thinks that might help her. It seems that her ex-husband and his family have made calls to CPS in the past, trying to get her in trouble. Part of me just doesn't want to get involved, but a much bigger part of me is outraged at how she's being railroaded. I have been here for over a year now. Her daughter has never crossed that street on her own. She plays outside, but her mother is watching from inside. She's always well dressed and really clean (cleaner than my kids on some days!), hair always brushed and neat, always getting on the school bus in the morning. I just don't get it.
Like she doesn't have enough to deal with having a special needs child, now they are accusing her of things that simply aren't true.

Joanne, that story about Jameson going to the store cracks me up! I used to go to the store a lot for my mom from when I was about 9. The store was a couple of blocks away. We moved there when I was 9 and my mom loved being able to send us there. But then again, I walked to school on my own for many years. It was about a mile walk.

No big plans for Mother's Day. Since Casey spent the night at her friend's house last night, we took Brenden out for breakfast and to the store, presumably to buy my gift. I decided I want a cherry tree. The store didn't have a cherry tree, but they had a self propelled mower that DH wound up bringing home. He can't get to some spots with the riding mower. Not much of a gift for me, but I have to admit, the lawn looks great. DH just had to play with it when we got home!

Casey's first sleepover away from home and family went very well. The girl's parents say that Casey was much better behaved than their own daughter. They told Casey to come back any time since she's a good influence! She was telling her friend that she should be listening to her mom! They have 2 horses so Casey was out there helping feed this morning. I was very proud of her. I told her a few times that the best way to have someone invite you over again is to be a good guest- help out, say please and thank you and be nice. She did me proud. I am so blessed with that girl.

Kim, what a great plan to save up mileage for a fun trip. The price of gas is making me sick these days. I consider myself extremely lucky to not have to commute like I used to. Of course, that means I am stuck home most days during the week. I've been combining trips so no more lunch time trips to the stores. I wait until Casey has a riding lesson and we stop on the way home. I did some of my food shopping this morning, too, since we were out already.

Well, I hope everyone has a great day tomorrow!

[HRJ]

Happy Day-After-Mother's-Day.

Hope everyone had a nice day yesterday. We had a nice day at home -- I got a lot of yard work done, actually. DH kept saying, "It's Mother's Day -- why don't you relax?" But the weather was great for working outdoors -- clear, and not too hot, which is how I like it, and it made me feel really good to see the yard get back into shape, especially after he got so messed up during our construction last summer.

My vegetable garden bed was pretty much destroyed during the construction, and we're just not going to have the time to get it back in shape for this year. So yesterday I planted some lettuce, spinach and peas seeds in containers on the deck -- I should have gotten them going a couple of weeks ago, but I guess better late than never.

DH cooked dinner on the grill last night, and spend most of the day working on the patio he's building next to the house. We paid the contractors last fall to level the ground and apply a base of crushed stone, but DH is putting in the pavers himself. He also decided he didn't to pay to have the pavers delivered, so he's been making all these trips to Lowe's to haul them home in the back of our Subaru--frankly, with the price of gas what it is, I don't know if we're saving any money on that.

Victor woke me up early yesterday to give me the Mother's Day gifts he made in school -- a decorated jar filled with chocolate-chip cookie mix the kids made themselves; a card; and a book he made called "All About my Mom." One of the things he wrote was "My mom is 22 years old." ;) :)

I think I've mentioned in the past that Victor has this boy baby doll that he's had since he was very little. He used to love playing with "Baby" -- when he was about 3, especially, he used to play that he was a Daddy, and he'd feed the baby, diaper him, change his clothes, put him to bed, etc. It was very sweet. Even though he hasn't played with the doll for a long time, it has always lived on the end of his bed -- just a couple of months ago, before he went to sleep, I noticed that Victor was propping the doll up against his extra blanket, and I commented on it to DH, how it was nice that even though Victor is now all into Star Wars and a lot of other aggressive-type play, he still likes to take care of Baby. (DH said, "I guess he's at peace with his baby-self and his big boy-self.")

Well, last week, Victor comes stomping downstairs carrying the doll and says "Here -- when we have our yard sale (we're planning one for early June), I want to sell this stupid baby toy!" and tosses Baby into the yard-sale box we set up in the living room. I felt such a pang. I told him I didn't want to sell the doll -- if he didn't want it in his room anymore, I'd take it and put it away in the attic. (He then asked if I'd pay him for it, since I'd told him he could have all the money from any of his old toys we sold -- I ended up "buying" it from him for $4 :eek: -- kid drives a hard bargain!).

I knew the time would come when he wouldn't want to have a baby doll in his room anymore -- I normally don't get overly sentimental about these kind of things, but, this really drives home to me that I don't have a "little one" anymore, and I'm finding it a little sad.

Also, the wallpaper in Victor's room is pale pastel flowers on a white background -- that was what was there when we bought the house, and we decided that we'd leave it there when he was little, and change it once he got old enough to have an opinion. Well, he's also developed an opinion about that, too -- told us the other day that he didn't want flowered walls anymore, because that was for girls (I'm wondering if one of his friends didn't say something when they were over for a playdate.). But, he has a point -- I can't blame a soon-to-be-7-year-old-boy for not wanting flowered wallpaper. I told him we would re-wallpaper after the summer.



Susan -- wow, Casey's first sleep-over! Glad to hear she was so well-mannered. That is a sticky situation with the family across the street -- I definitely understand your mixed feelings. I love cherry trees -- hope you get one soon!

Joanne, I also had to laugh about Jameson saying they wouldn't sell a jar of sauce to an 11-year-old! When I was growing up, we lived around the block from a market, and my mother used to send us over there all the time to get ingredients for dinner, from the time we were maybe 8 or 9, but, we only had to cross one street to get there. We used to joke that she considered the store her "pantry."

Kim, great idea about "banking" the miles for a trip to the theme park. I think it's still being green, because, after all, you could be driving to the transit center every day, *and* also driving to the theme park. My DH's company has been letting him telecommute more often -- he's been doing it about twice a week recently -- and that's been great for us.

That story about the woman wanting to hold Lainey's hand is outrageous!

The helicopter vs. free-range is interesting -- I don't feel comfortable with either label, I think there has to be a comfortable "middle." Or at least I hope so. For example, Victor has a new friend in his K class who lives 2 1/12 blocks down the hill from us (they are long blocks, though). At this point, I would not let him walk back and forth from there alone -- when it's time for him to come home from a playdate there, I'll walk down and get him. Would a "free-range" mom let an almost-7-year-old take that walk by himself?

Our walk to school is 7 blocks, plus a short distance down the hill that goes on a walking path through the wooded conservation land. I won't let him do that by himself, either -- but, as far as I can tell, neither do any of the other parents in the neighborhood -- kids don't seem to do that walk by themselves until they are in about 4th grade, unless there is an older sib in charge.

But, I will let Victor play outside by himself. (I can usually see him from the windows, and, when the windows are so open, he's so noisy that I can usually hear him most of the time, too.) Our neighborhood doesn't have sidewalks, but there's a low stone wall at the end of our front yard, and I trust him, at this point, not to go beyond the wall -- when he was younger, that was a bit of an issue, but he has proven that he can follow that rule now. In general, he stays in the back yard, though -- there are no fences between any of the back yards, so the kids just drift from one yard to the other, but it's compact enough that I can tell where they are. I won't let him ride his bike outside without DH or I being there, though.

Helene

[hrk]

Good morning all. Happy belated Mothers Day!
Well we are ready to build an ark here with all the rain we have had here, so we have been taking every opportunity to get the kids outside when they are available.

Kim- Biking to work and keeping track of those points for something good I think sets such a great example for your kids. We have a treadmill in our basement and it turns out it is fantastic having it down there. Not only do the kids see me exercise, but I can interact with them while they play.

I did read the thread about free range vs helicopter, and DH and I even talked about it. He rode the bus or walked to school when he was little, I wasn't allowed off our street until probably middle school. I actually think I am in the middle right now, but ironically I am more free range with Ari than I was with Logan.

Susan- Wow that situation with your neighbor does sound tough. Glad to hear the sleepover went well. Doesn't Casey have a birthday coming up? I thought Logan and she were close in dates.

Joanne-
That summer camp sounds great and what an honor. Any growth on the tree?

Helene- Logan has a lion that was given to him at birth and is a lovey. I have been noticing it with him less and less, so I think our time will be coming soon as well. I will be so sad, but at least Ari has a dog lovey so I have a few years;)

We had a very nice Mothers Day. I always want flowers for Mothers Day, but the kind I can plant in my garden, so we hit the nursery early and then ended up in the garden most of the day. We redid our compost bin, which the kids loved digging through and finding earthworms, we put in a new raised bed, which was sort of spur of the moment so I have more space to plant flowers and I put in a new hydrangea. The kids gave me cards and they each made presents at school. Then about 3 its started to pour and hasn't stopped since. Between last Friday and tomorrow they are saying over 6 inches.:eek:

Logan's birthday party is Sunday, his actual birthday. He is so excited he is counting down. Since he switched schools between last year and this year, I got off easy, he wanted the same party. So back to the duckpin bowling alley for bowling pizza and cake. I think there will be about 13 kids so it should be fun.

OH and for those of you that saw the other thread about Day out with Thomas vs the christening, we went to Thomas, but it wasn't without a ton of drama. FIL called DH and gave him a very long lecture about importance of family and why couldn't we just come for a little while etc. And my DH listened to it for about an hour until he reached his breaking point and boy he just gave it all back to poor FIL. He wanted to know how he and MIL could lecture him about family when SIL had made the same choices he is, but more importantly how could MIL talk about family when she has missed Logan's (her first grandson) birthday every year to go on a bird watching trip . Apparently FIL actually was stunned and backed down and told DH he was right, they no right to say anything when MIL was setting the example she was. And for the record FIL had asked MIL not to go the past two years and she had made her choice. SO we will see what the future brings. But I can't believe DH finally spoke his mind- I was shocked:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Anyways so Thomas was fun. We went to it at the B&O museum. The museum is a gorgeous restored roundhouse complete with turntable floor and all. So while Logan is probably getting beyond "Thomas" he loved the trains and he still loves going on train rides. But Ari loved seeing all the Thomas stuff especially loved the "Big" Thomas. To see him waving bye and saying "bye Thommy" was just worth it all.

So now that my novel is complete I will sign off.
Heather

[RunnerKim]

Heather - glad you all had fun time with Thomas! Sorry it had to be tainted by FIL's rant but good for your DH! That must have felt good and especially since it sounds like it ended well. Have fun with Logan's party. Lucky you getting to "repeat" the party!

Helene - oh I can understand your sadness about Baby. I'm glad you bought it (ouch $4!! :D ) though. It will be fun if he has a child to be able to pass it on.

I say that I'm more of a "free range" parent but I haven't actually done much that is free range. While I would let Lainey play in the front by herself, that just doesn't happen because Jamie is almost always doing what she is doing etc. It's hard without knowing your blocks/street etc. but if there was a safe place to walk, I'd be tempted to let an almost-7 year old do it by himself. I'd start with making sure the other parent knew he was coming (would call if he wasn't there in an appropriate time) and/or maybe walking him half way. I'd be much more willing to do it on something like that where you've walked it many times and the child is very comfortable with where they're going.

I can see that Lainey's trying to figure a lot of this out too. She asked me this morning if she could ride the train by herself when she was 14 (she often picks random ages and asks these questions -- or at least the age seems random to me). We talked about how it wasn't so much the "bad people" that I was worried about but more that she'd have to be old enough to know what to do if something didn't go right - getting off at the wrong stop for example.

I have every intention of putting Lainey on an airplane and sending her out to visit with her grandparents in a couple of summers. I'm hoping we can start that by having them come visit us and then she flies back with them so she'd only have to fly alone on the return trip (for the first time). I spent several "alone" times with my grandparents growing up and it is something I really appreciate and value looking back on my childhood.

I thought I was more or less at "peace" with Lainey repeating K this Fall. She has a few kids on her t-ball team that will be in K this Fall and I thought that was cool (the teams are made up by school so they're all attending or will attend our neighborhood school). And then I realized for a couple of them - it wasn't them that was starting K but their younger brothers. The ones that I initially thought were closer to Jamie's age. :eek: They just seem so much...younger than Lainey. But then I know there's at least 2 of the kids on the team that will also be in K so it's not like all the kids will be young 5s. Drat but one of them is also named Lainie. What are the chances of that?! (spelled slightly differently).

Kim

[MrsReber]

Not such a good Mother's Day here. It was a bit overcast in the morning. Casey's trainer called to say we could come by for a lesson at 11:30. She was going out to breakfast with her family. I just got out of the shower when she called again. I thought she was calling to say she was running late, but got quite a shock. In the 2 hours that they were at breakfast, Goodnight went and had her baby. 4 months early. The poor thing had no chance. It was awful news. I didn't know how to tell Casey. She took it quite well. I was fighting the tears, but she didn't cry once. She asked if Goodnight was okay and then said "does this mean I can ride her for horse camp and in shows?" Well, yes, now she can. We still went for the lesson, but she rode another pony. We brought carrots for Goodnight and Casey gave her lots of love and attention. About a month ago, the trainer noticed that the pony looked like she was getting ready to give birth. The vet gave her antibiotics to stop it then. You can't prevent nature from taking its course, though. We found out that there were about 7 from the farm that she came from with similar problems. A bunch were born dead. 2 were born, but within days developed horrible problems. One has had a blood plasma transfusion. So, I guess better to have things this way then to have a live birth and not know if you should spend a ton of money trying to make it better or just put it out of its misery. It's a really sad time for me and Casey.

Under the circumstances, the vet recommended we do a necropsy to see what the problem is and to make sure Goodnight doesn't have any problems. I would consider breeding her in the future, but we'd need to know if it's a good idea or not. She had about 3 other foals with no problem so they think it's got something to do with the farm she lived on. The people were going bankrupt and probably didn't put enough into the care of the horses and ponies. So, anyway, as it turned out, Casey and I took the fetus to the VA Tech veterinary hospital (90 minutes from here). It poured rain for the first half of the trip. On the way, Casey asked me some questions, like can the vet bring the pony back to life? Do ponies go to heaven? Can Goodnight have another baby? She said Goodnight was very sad to lose her baby, but she told her it was okay. What a smart pony, though. She knew there was a problem and she was fine with being led away from the foal. None of the other horses and ponies will go near that part of the paddock. We should have some kind of results in about 2 weeks. Meanwhile, Goodnight is on an antibiotic as a preventative and can probably be ridden by the end of the week.

We got home at 6:00. We stopped at the store to pick up stuff to make burgers on the grill. I got to do the cooking and cleaning up. Casey said "the day isn't over yet, mommy." She insisted we watch Ratatouille together. We had ice cream sundaes for dessert.

Both kids made me cards and they each made something at school. I didnt know Brenden made anything until this morning, when I was putting his snack in his backpack and getting him ready for school. He also had a rose in his room for a few days. The neighbor across the street gave some flowers to the kids. He was hiding it from me so it was a bit wilted. It was pretty cute that he did that.

Helicopter moms- well, I used to be like that. I do check on them. Yesterday, Casey and I were starving. We left the house at 11:30 and it was 5:00 so we stopped at McDonald's quick for something to eat. I was ordering and Casey told me she really had to go to the bathroom. She said "I know where it is, can I go by myself?" I let her go since she couldn't wait. She's rather confident. My only fear with her is that I have no idea what she'd do if a stranger approached her or tried to grab her. She hardly talks to anyone out in public. I just don't know if she'd yell. I get paranoid, but try to keep my fears to myself. I knew there was a door that I couldn't see toward the restrooms. I also coudnt' see the restrooms from the counter. After I ordered, I moved so I could see the door to the ladies room. She did just fine. At the supermarket, I'll let her go to the bathroom by herself if I'm in a check out line where I can see the door. I can't make her wait forever while I wait in line and I can't get out of line (the check out is so very slow most of the time). I'll allow Brenden to go if Casey is with him. She's a bit more responsible than he is and I know she looks out for him.

Heather, that's great that your DH spoke up. I'm always glad when DH does that with his family. It's not right to expect you and your DH to cater to them when they don't show you the same respect. I'm glad FIL came to his senses.

My IL's are crazy. SIL (the one I don't like) had everyone over at her house. MIL got wind chimes for all the grandkids to give to their moms (DH has 3 sisters and one SIL). Well, MIL got the chimes for each of her daughters and left DH's brother's wife out! She's done this before to me and SIL at Christmas. She got tickets to a broadway play for "all the girls." I guess she meant all of HER girls. MIL even told DH that she sent a birthday present for him and when to expect it to arrive. Of course, we never got anything. I just shake my head. Casey and Brenden have stopped asking about her because she doesn't have any contact at all with them. It's sad and it's definitely her loss. I can't change her behavior.

Helene, how sad about the baby! Brenden still loves his stuffed animals and all. Casey's friend showed up with her care bear last for her sleep over here and Casey was sure to bring her care bear over to her friend's house. I think girls are different with that. It was funny. Before Casey's friend got here, she was watching Handy Manny. She said "I hope this is over soon." She said she'd be embarrassed if her friend showed up while she was watching it. Then her friend shows up and tells Casey she wants to watch her Dragon Tails dvd! It was cute.

Kim, I wish I could be like that and feel okay putting my children on a plane. I let my own fear of flying get in the way. I can't imagine myself putting them on a plane if I'm not with them. I figure we'll all go down together! I really have to get over that. There was some turbulence on the way home from AZ and I was just praying that it would stop. I am not good with planes for some reason. I know they're statistically safer than cars, but I can't! Other than my fear, I'd be okay with it. My mom used to put us on a bus to NYC to see my dad every other weekend. I was 6 when we started going. My brother was 10 and my sister was 6. We'd go from a shady bus station in a bad section of a town in NJ to the Port Authority bus station in NYC. And my dad was always late. I'm amazed my mom did that.

Well, that's my novel for today! We're still a bit sad, but going back to the farm today with more carrots. Who knows what the future will bring, but now Casey can look forward to going to shows, at least.

[RunnerKim]

Oh Susan that's awful about Midnight's foal. :( Definitely not a fun way to spend mother's day. Glad Casey found a way to celebrate it in the end.

Kim

[HRJ]

((Susan and Casey)) I'm so sorry to hear about Goodnight's foal -- how tragic. And for that to happen on Mother's Day, too -- what a shame. I'm glad Casey seems to be taking it fairly well.

Kim, how odd that's there's another "Lainie" who will be in K with Lainey -- I've never come across anyone with that name before, myself -- it seems pretty unique to me. I wouldn't worry too much about the K situation -- for one thing, as you've mentioned, there's a chance Lainey could move to 1st grade fairly soon, right? And, even if she doesn't, there will be other kids with fall birthdays who will be her age. I've noticed in Victor's class, especially in the first half of the year, the kids sort of "self-selected" into social circles, roughly by age. The boys Victor has become particularly friendly with all have September and October birthdays (were "old 5's" when K started) and appear to be very much in the same place that he is, as far as social and emotional maturity goes. Maybe that's just coincidence, but I don't think so.

And, in general, the girls all seem to be a bit more mature, anyway.
(It's fairly easy for me, even now, to pick out the boys who were "young 5's" when K started, but I really can't tell with the girls). I guess what I'm trying to say is, Lainey may not spend a whole lot of time interacting with those "younger brothers" and will most likely find kids to socialize with who are on a comparable maturity level.


I've been thinking about the idea of Victor walking by himself in our neighborhood -- I guess one of the things that concerns me is that many of the streets don't have sidewalks -- there are fairly wide unpaved areas on the side of the road for pedestrians to walk on, but, without specific sidewalks and curbs, it makes me nervous, more because I don't trust drivers, particularly those who don't live in the neighborhood but are only passing through, to pay attention and realize to look out for people on the side of the road. I think Victor needs to be a little older and have a better developed instinct for watching out for cars -- I think right now he just trusts that grown-ups driving cars will all be as slow and careful driving around the neighborhood as DH and I are.


Heather, glad that you enjoyed Thomas, and glad to hear that your DH spoke back to his family -- and I'm glad your FIL was able to listen and admit that your DH was right. Hope that changes things, at least a little bit, for the future.

Joanne, I forgot to congratulate Jameson on the summer camp! That's great


And, Joanne, I have a question -- when did you start letting your boys use public men's rooms by themselves? I have to admit, the idea of men's rooms sort of freaks me out. When we're out with DH, of course, he takes Victor to the bathroom. And when I'm out with Victor, I try to look for places that have "singleton" bathrooms (just one user at a time) or unisex family bathrooms. He doesn't like for me to come in with him anymore, so I'll wait outside the door, but as long as I know he's the only one in there, I'm fine. But I have yet to send him alone into a public men's room -- :eek: If there's no other choice, I bring him in the ladies room with me, and get him in and out as quickly as possible, and so far, no one has said anything to me yet. But he's reaching the age where someone might -- although, honestly, since women's rooms have stalls, it's not like he's really invading anyone's privacy or anything -- I've never seen a woman doing anything particularly "immodest" in a restroom outside the stall, y'know? (Maybe I've just been lucky? :D ) I've certainly never minded young boys being in the ladies room as long as they area behaving themselves -- but I know that it's a real problem for some women.

Since our Y doesn't allow boys over age 4 into the women's locker room, he has been going into the men's locker room by himself when I take him to swimming lessons (one of the reasons I prefer that DH take him, but sometimes we have no choice). I stand right outside the doorway (there's no actual door, just a wall that blocks people from seeing in, but you can still hear what's going on in there, sorta). I've told Victor to take a locker right near the door, and to yell for me if anything that anyone says to him makes him feel uncomfortable, and certainly if anyone tries to touch him in any way. Every once in a great while, I'll call his name from the doorway, to make sure he's within earshot, and that other people know his mom his is out there. Maybe that's unnecessary, but it makes me feel better. And I'm not the only mom standing there like that, either. (The Y does have 3 individual "family" chaning rooms, but the demand for them is so great that you literally have to get there at least a half hour early to wait on line to use them, and I usually don't have time to do that -- plus, what a waste of time, anyway!)

Helene

[MrsReber]

Helene, thanks for the hugs- and Kim, thanks for the condolences. We'll get by. Life goes on and there are good things around the corner. We try to focus on the good. I mean, we're not pony breeders so the whole situation is just crazy to begin with. It's been emotional, mostly for me! DH was disappointed, too, though. It really put a damper on the day.

Helene, I'm presented with a different problem since I have a boy and a girl. Occasionally I can get Brenden to come into the ladies room, but he mostly insists on going in the mens room. I wait right outside the door. More often than not, men will come out and give me a report (Brenden tends to take his time with everything). They realize that I'm waiting for him. When we went to a play a week or so ago, he wanted to go in the mens room at intermission. However, the crowd really scared him so he got on line for the ladies room with me and Casey. Nobody has ever said a word to me about it.
Our Y lets boys under 6 in the ladies locker room, but I think now I'd be comfortable sending Brenden in alone. I'd probably have to yell into the locker room just to hurry him up! He's so painfully slow when it comes to getting dressed. In AZ, though, he got up each morning and took his pull up off first thing, so he was usually dressed before anyone. I think he was embarrased by it. He tried to be very discreet.

We have no sidewalks around here, either, which is why I'm afraid of the kids being near the road.

Kim, I agree with what Helene said about K. The kids do seem to group together. Casey, being a good reader, befriended the other kids that like to read and were closer to her level. Brenden is unique in that he'll talk to anyone who is friendly toward him. He's not great friends with any one child at school, but he is friends with all of them. He's so much like DH. However, the ones that he mostly talks about are the ones closer to his level. And they all seem to be girls!!! I hear about Shayleigh, Brooke and Victoria all the time and only sometimes hear about Eric and Zane. I guess everyone just seeks out friends who are like themselves. Actually, Shayleigh turned 6 last October. She's very bright- I always run into her mom at the library or at school events. She's very involved with things. We went to her birthday party and Casey ended up having a great time with her. I'm glad that Brenden is a bright kid because he's so tall. DH was always the tall kid and he said others tend to think that the bigger kids were left back or something. He may be a little younger, but he's definitely taller so it all fits together nicely. Many people think he's older than Casey :eek: !

Speaking of Shayleigh and her mom- Brenden insisted that I go on his class trip to the zoo on Thursday. They also want me to volunteer for field day on Friday (8-12). I'm trying to do both, though I hate to miss out on all that precious work time because I have so much work to do! Then I thought about it and our reasons for moving and decided I better go. I should go while Brenden is still dying for me to come along. Parents aren't allowed to go on the bus and there's no room. I told Brenden I'd see if Shayleigh's mom was going and if I could ride with her and split the cost of gas (my other reason for not wanting to go!). Brenden said "She's going. She goes to everything. She needs to stop going to so much stuff!" I think he thought that I couldn't go because she was going. Anyway, she is going and maybe another mom so the three of us can split the cost. Brenden was thrilled. My boss is fine with me taking the time, too. He told me they really appreciate my hard work, which was nice to hear.

And speaking of work, I better get back to it. I have had 2 calls this morning and have to get on another one at 2:00. It's going to be challenging when school lets out!

[RunnerKim]

Thank you for the support on the K situation. I think I just need it to get underway so I can stop worrying about it!

Around here it's when kids turn 6 that they're suppose to not go into the opposite sex changing room. That extra year makes a big difference for my comfort level. We've been talking about it recently since the kids are in swim class and I'd be fine with Lainey going in to the locker room by herself at this point. My thoughts jump to whether she can handle the shower with actually getting the shampoo & conditioner out of her hair and getting dressed in a timely manner and not concerns about her personal safety though.

I know a lot of parents have concerns about child molestation. I've felt it too but I've been conscious about choosing not to have those fears (sometimes more successfully than others!). I find the statistics for strangers to be helpful. I'm not saying that I don't worry about molestation because I certainly have/do but I really hate fear and what it can do. I've talked with Lainey about who can and should not touch her (and where) and when it's okay. We talk about the differences between "secrets" and "surprises."

I know parents that have been uncomfortable because there are male teachers at my kids' school (and even some that refuse to have their child at a center with male teacher). It's not specific concern about a specific person - just a man being a teacher of young children issue. That bothers me. I know my DH is very aware of being a man and working with kids - even to the point of not sure how much hands-on assistance he should give kids with holding the bat for t-ball. That bothers me. I try to not let myself think that men are inherently a danger to children, which is what it feels like to me when I fear my child being with men.

I'm not bothered by a 5 or 6 year old boy in a women's restroom (one with stalls etc). Even older as I never know what's going on with that child that makes it unsafe for them to be left alone. As you mentioned there's not really a privacy issue in a women's restroom. But I feel 6 is definitely too old for a locker room and even 5 for some kids (when they start commenting about people's bodies). From my experience with pool locker rooms, I'll be most concerned about my un-supervised child hanging out and hogging the shower after swim class (or DH reports that several of the boys like to play and spray water around).

Susan - that's great you can take to time to join in Brenden's activities. Hopefully you won't have to squeeze in too much time to make up for it.

Joanne - I missed the summer camp comment at first. Very cool to get to work with people from NASA. What a boon for Jameson.

Kim

[HRJ]

Interesting discussion. I don't want to be misunderstood -- I think there's a big difference though, between worrying about having a male day-care teacher (something I wouldn't have a problem with), and worrying about random, unknown men in places like public bathrooms and locker rooms, that involve some degree of exposure/nudity by their very nature. I know there are women who are sexual abusers, but I think the pathology of that operates a little differently than that of many male abusers -- ie, you don't hear of female pedophiles who prey on strange children in public places.

Obviously, I don't have a DD, but if I did, I don't think I'd be as concerned (from a personal safety standpoint) about a 6-year-old girl alone in a women's locker room, as a 6-year-old boy in alone in a men's locker room -- aside from the pedophile worries, I worry about older boys - teens, or maybe more likely, pre-teens, -- who might think it's "cool" to try and intimidate or bully a younger child who was alone. (Yes, I know girls use bullying and intimidation, too, but that's usually within already-established social situations -- I think they are less likely to go over and start trying to pick a fight with a stranger.) And I think women in a locker room at a place like a Y are more likely to look out and help young, unescorted kids -- I think men may be less likely to do that, either because they're clueless, or, because they're afraid of being accused of something if they do show an honest interest in helping a kid. Which is unfortunate, of course.


Another thought -- (and I guess I've been devoting waaay too much time to thinking about men's rooms today! ;) ) It's not just that I'm worried that someone might try to do something to Victor in a public men's room -- I guess I'm also a little concerned that he might see someone doing something -- let's say, "inappropriate"? Or maybe I just have way too dim a view of what goes on in those places?



Oddly enough, I really don't consider myself overly preoccupied with fears about molestation, especially compared with many other moms I know IRL. (Although you'd never know it from my postings today!). It just seems like the bathroom issue is one that makes me particularly unsettled.



H.

[MrsReber]

I have little concern about the bathrooms, actually, especially when it's somewhere we've been 100 times, it's a busy place, and I have a clear view of the entrance. I have to say, Helene, that I pretty much agree with your comments about girls v. boys in those situations. I do worry about Brenden in the public restrooms by himself, but I also think he'd speak up (or yell) if he had to. I don't know about Casey. She's afraid to speak to most people. I would be concerned sending Brenden into the locker room to shower and change because I know how he is- he'd get distracted and play in the shower rather than hurry up so the next person can get in. But we knew a lot of the people there during the swimming lessons and I always figured they'd be helpful. The one time Brenden went into the men's locker room, his 10 year old cousin was with him to help him so I didn't think about it. The picture on the ladies room is so funny. It's a little boy's face with the red circle and line, stating no boys under 6 are allowed. Brenden will always go into a bathroom stall to get changed, though. He doesn't like anyone seeing him. And, at the Y, the women have always been quite modest so I don't ever see anyone walking around with nothing on.

I worry less about molestation from other adults than I do about it happening with an older child, actually. Except for school, there aren't many other adults that my kids would be around or go to visit without me. I worry about the older brother of someone (which is why I severely limit playtime at our one neighbor's house- there's a 13 yo boy there who is a bit wild).

I'm off to the farm soon to help the vet. The pony is doing well except for some dishcarge. She needs me to help hold her while they clean it all out. Should be fun, no? I also have to somehow or other get Casey's cake ordered today. I'm looking forward to this class trip tomorrow if for no other reason than I need a break!!!

[RunnerKim]

While I agree there's a difference between having a male teacher and a locker room...I think the stats would indicate that the most likely threat comes from someone you/your child trusts and not strangers. And thus a male teacher/coach etc. is really more of a concern and there's certainly more opportunity. And there's still diaper changing/helping to wipe issue (for younger kids).

BUT I am not saying you're crazy for not being comfortable sending your son in to a locker room by himself. I understand that concern completely. I tried to not write it in a way that was indicating I am judgmental about what other parents are comfortable doing but what my concerns/choices are.

DH and I have had several conversations about his awareness about appearances and I've talked with other men who have flat out refused to volunteer/coach etc. girls because of the risk of being accused of something inappropriate. And I guess I feel "society" has come to feel that men are a risk to children and I find that...bothersome. So I personally have actively challenged my own fears in this area many times.

I think this does all have to do with how individually we're comfortable allowing our children independence (the helicopter vs. free-range issue). We all have different experiences, comfort levels, environments, children, spouses etc. etc. So I didn't mean to come across that other parents are being tooo... whatever... protective, safety conscious... just my own struggles.

Not in this regard but on the safety front the kids wanted to ride their bikes. They went out front ahead of me as I was finishing something up. When I got out front the kids were out of site. I expected them to wait for me in the driveway - Lainey thought it was okay to go around the corner. So I weighed what the risks were and we talked about what would be safe and decided they can't go in the street unless an adult is out front but that it would most of the time be okay for them to go around the corner (out of line of site) with an adult out front. I'm weighing independence/problem-solving skills etc. with my needs to keep them within "arms reach." I know many (most maybe) parents might not make that same choice. I know I'm valuing their independence more than many parents these days do. What i guess I'm saying is that I feel like I'm sort of towards an end of a spectrum so I don't expect others to parent that same way.

I hope all that makes a little sense.

Kim

[cchhbb]

Helene, I totally with you about bathrooms/locker rooms. Our Y has the same rule as yours and I'm not looking forward to next year when Garrett has to use the men's locker room. I still make Garrett use the ladies room too.

I spent some time last year on a task force that worked to reduce the risk of abuse at our church. It was interesting to me the number of children that were sexually abused before 18 years old. I think it was something like 1/9 boys and 1/4 girls. We implemented a program where we background check anyone working with children at our church, bathroom procedures, and how no one was to be left alone with a child.

I went with a friend last year to the zoo and she had her older niece and nephew with her. I took the children on a train ride and she took her son to the car and we were going to meet up with her. Before we left, I took the kids to the bathroom and really faced an interesting situation. Should I let the 6 or 7 year old nephew go to the men's room by himself or not. I decided he could go first and I would wait for him and then he could sit on a bench with Griffin in the stroller while I took everyone else potty. Another mom offered to keep an eye on them while I was in the ladies room.

Susan, soory to hear about the loss of the foal. I hope she is doing well and doesn't have an infection. You really need to stay on top of a horse that miscarries as they may have not gotten completely cleaned out since the foal never nursed to cause uterine contractions.

Today was Garrett's beach day at school. He only has about 7 days of school left. Griffin only has 2. It was so cold and nasty today so it was really a bust. I was able to leave Griffin with a friend's nanny while I attended and froze. I'm just glad I didn't have to get in the water.

I've been so busy this month. We went to Thomas during the first weekend and it rained like crazy. The boys had a terrific time and we even got to ride in a old dining car and have snacks later in the day. I was so tired when we got home.

We had our family pictures taken again on Saturday. We all wore white and I think they tured out pretty well. The photographer isn't going to have them on her website for a couple of weeks since she left on vacation directly after our shoot.

Garrett got a terrible eye infection that probably started from a bug bite that he had an allergic reaction to. He ended up with a totally swollen eye that started draining. I took him to the urgent care center on Saturday night and we were in and out of there in 22 minutes. It took longer to get the antibodics filled. It looks so much better today.

Cheryl

[LaraW]

Hi Everyone-

I am reading with interest the conversation about when to let kids go into locker rooms/restrooms by themselves. We're a long way off of that with Colin, since he is only 2, but we are starting to be there with Natalie. She is getting to where she likes to go into the stall by herself and doesn't like to go into the men's room with DH if I am not around. We had some instances during our trip recently where we stopped to go to the bathroom, and I waited outside while she went, but she came in with me while I went. I just explained that a bathroom like that is not a safe place for a little girl to be by herself (while I was using the bathroom) and that was why I felt more comfortable with her with me.

We are fortunate that our rec center, where we usually go swimming, has family cabanas that we can all go in together. It actually is easier from the standpoint of kids too old to go into one locker room or the other, but also from the standpoint of just corralling both kids while trying to get changed to go swimming. I don't take the kids swimming by myself but if I did, I'd probably go in there just because they are familiar with those rooms.

I'm also thinking about just general independence from the standpoint of letting kids solve their own problems about things. We finished our Love and Logic class last night. I have gotten so much out of it, just hearing about other peoples' experiences has given me some ideas on dealing with things as well.

We made a big step after we got home from our trip and moved Colin out of his crib. So, he's resisting his naps. :rolleyes: I remember going through this with Natalie and how stressed out I was. ;) Of course, this time I have the benefit of experience but also the fact that I'm not caring for a newborn.

We had Natalie's end-of-the-season soccer picnic last weekend. She really enjoyed it, and she had fantastic coaches. They really made it fun for her. I know one coach is doing it again this fall, the other one may not depending on child care for her youngest son. I may sign Colin up as well just since he seems to have a good time kicking the ball around and it was so hard to keep him off the field during Natalie's games.

Susan, I'm so sorry to hear about the foal. :(

Joanne, that is great about Jameson's camp this summer. I am sure he will enjoy it.

Kim, that is great about riding your bikes a certain distance to get a reward. That is a great lesson in working toward something and delaying gratification.

Helene, could you bring Victor to swim lessons already in his swimsuit so he only has to walk through the locker room on his way in, and then just has to use the locker room on his way out. I wondered if that might make you more comfortable.

We are having a garage sale this weekend so I am going to be getting ready for that tomorrow, the sale is Friday and Saturday. We have so much stuff to get rid of - I love getting rid of it all.

Later-
Lara

[HRJ]

Kim, I hope I didn't come off sounding belligerent or defensive in my response earlier -- I know that you were not being judgmental at all. I think this is an issue that is eliciting a much stronger response in me than I'd even realized -- I'm glad for the chance to consider different views, and to test and re-think my own opinions. (In fact, that's one of the things I love about this thread -- in many ways, we're all coming from some very different backgrounds and child-rearing philosophies, yet we're all very supportive of each other's choices. Coming here, I get to consider viewpoints that I might not otherwise.)

Anyway, your point that there is probably more of a danger of molestation from someone you know, rather than strangers lurking in the restroom, is well taken. Which has made me think a lot the past few days. My first reaction was to say to myself, 'well, DH and I try to pay attention to the who the adults are that Victor is around, and he's not in situations where he's alone with, for example, a soccer coach." But, Victor does spend a lot of time in places where we're not there to "check out" everyone and monitor where he is every minute -- the after-school program, for example, or day camp. I'm certainly not about to stop sending him to those places -- I know I'd be doing him a disservice at this point if, say, I didn't let him go to day camp solely because I was afraid of having him under the supervision of others and out of my sight. I guess I just have to investigate the places we send him, and trust in the integrity of the people/organizations that run them, and also that the activities are structured so that the children and adults are in an "open" environment -- ie, when he was in day-care, one of the things I liked was that the facility was designed so that everything was basically out in the open, and it would be hard for something untoward to be going on without someone else seeing it. And also to continue to give Victor the skills to help keep himself safe -- although I feel I can only rely on that to a point, because you really don't know how even the most mature and well-prepared child will react if they find themselves scared or threatened, especially by a trusted adult.

But, I've been thinking about differences between what bothers me -- ie, the locker room -- and other situations that I never gave a second thought. For example, a few months ago, I was getting Victor after Hebrew School, and I was asked if I could stay at the temple for about an hour to help with a project, sort of a last-minute thing. There are many times when I stay after Hebrew School to attend meetings, and Victor -- usually along with other kids, but sometimes by himself -- goes to the little-kids classroom, which has a lot of toys in it, and plays. Sometimes I'm in a room down the hall, or sometimes I'm upstairs, but I never worry about him being by himself anywhere in the building (it's not a really big building). On this particular day, though, a fellow synagogue member -- a man, an active volunteer who tutors kids in Hebrew and whom I know slightly, who has teenage kids of his own -- was there waiting for another meeting to begin, so he offered to take Victor into the big-kids classroom, where there is a computer loaded with a program that helps kids learn the Hebrew alphabet. Victor was excited about trying out the program, so I didn't think twice about letting him do it. I thought it was really nice that this guy was offering to help, and that people in the congretation are so good about reaching out to one another. But, looking at it another way, you could say that I was sending my kid off alone with a man I don't know all that well. (And, to take it even further, how well do you have to know someone to be sure that they're "safe"? :confused: )

Not quite sure what my point is -- just that this is a really sticky question, and the perimeters seem to be shifting all the time, as Victor gets older.


And, one more word about the Y -- (if anybody can still stand it ... ) mostly, DH has been taking Victor to swimming on Saturday mornings or late Friday afternoons, not primarily because of the locker issue, but because DH wants to be involved with Victor's activities. (On Saturdays, they've developed the habit of going to get lunch and run errands together after swimming, and it provides for some nice father-son time, and leaves me Saturday mornings for some "me" time.) Right now, we're not even doing swimming at the moment, because there's soccer on Sat. mornings. So it's only been on a few occasions when DH couldn't get there for some reason that I had to fill in. I guess I made it seem like bigger deal than it is.

Lara, good luck with your garage sale!! We originally wanted to do a yard sale (that's what everyone calls them around here) this weekend, but couldn't get ourselves organized enough, so we're aiming for the weekend after Memorial Day.

Cheryl, glad you all enjoyed Thomas! Hope Garrett's eye infection clears up soon -- hearing about eye infections always makes me particularly anxious!

Susan, how's the pony doing?

Kim, I meant to mention -- Victor does the same thing as Lainey, picking some random age and asking if he can do certain things at that point. Or, he'll pick some odd activity, and ask how old he can be before he starts doing it -- this morning, he asked how old he had to be before he could start using anti-persperant!

Helene

[RunnerKim]

Lara- I'd love to hear more about your love & logic classes or anything you're doing based on them etc. Did you & DH go together?

I agree it always feels so good to de-clutter. Good luck with your garage sale.

Oh Helene - not at all! I just wanted to make sure *I*wasn't coming across judgmental! I'm really glad we can have thought provoking conversations here. I know I tend to way over-think these things but I accept that's just the way I am. I know DH doesn't spend nearly the mental energy I do on these things. It's nice to have other parents (moms mostly) to think out loud about these things.

I wonder if part of the locker room thing isn't that as women we of course never go in to a men's locker room so it feels that much more...mysterious, unknown etc.

Lainey is really at the point where my personal philosophy is being tested - her wanting to do things that make me a little uneasy (i.e., going out of sight). So I'm grappling with these things.

Susan brought up a point about older siblings/kids which made me think about bullying and other safety issues too. With Lainey starting at the neighborhood school in the Fall and thus being exposed to many more older kids, I'll admit to having some anxiety about that. What can we do to help our kids handle those situations, not be targeted and if they are be willing to talk about it.

We biked in to work again today (or rather to the transit center). Ugh, it didn't go all that well this time. I started out first because I'm slower and it takes DH longer to get the kids loaded in the trailer etc. I can't trip the one left-hand turn signal coming out of the light by myself so had to wait for DH to catch up with me. When he passes me I notice he forgot the flag for the trailer. Not too long after that I notice he's pulled over and is rummaging through the back of the trailer. I thought maybe Lainey was complaining about our bags poking her or something. Nope, he'd forgotten to put the bike locks in. I suggested we just go home and get the car (DH was quite frustrated). But he said he'd just ride home and get the locks and flag and come back.

I had decided to leave my bike at the transit center in the racks. I'm not sure it's going to be there when we go home. I have no idea why bike theft is such a big thing but it is - even with secure locks. It's a very cheap Target bike that I actually wouldn't mind having to replace (other than the problem of getting home). It was much easier handling the train ride with just the trailer (folded) and one bike. I was hoping to leave the trailer at Lainey's school but it's a little too big for the stroller area. I had to lug it to my office which is about 3/4 mile away. I've since figured out how to pull it so it shouldn't be such a big deal. DH could take it with his bike but it takes longer to re-assemble, attach it and put Jamie in than it would for him to walk the few blocks to his building.

Now if we could just figure out how to alter the trailer so it has peddles - like a paddle boat - and the kids could work off some of their energy we'd be in good shape!

Kim

[JoanneOR]

Susan, I'm so sorry to hear about the foal. That's so sad.

Helene, good for your DH for standing up to your FIL! Happy belated birthday to Logan!

Really interesting discussions about kids' independence and also about locker room/bathroom issues. I admit that I am more afraid for the boys to go in locker rooms or rest rooms alone than I would be for Caitlyn and it's really sad to have to be wary like that. I have the advantage of having the three boys close in age, so I've never really had to send one into the restroom alone. Even if only one has to go, I send them all in together. Still makes me nervous and I wish it didn't, but it does. I have to say that's the one thing that would make me lose it and possible hurt someone :mad:, if you mess with any of my kids in that way. Sounds harsh, but that type of abuse just really seems to stick with people throughout their lives. Kids are so innocent. But you have to let go and let kids experience things - you can't let your fears inhibit them, if that makes sense. This is more related to the independence issue. What Jameson said about going to the store alone was funny, but really made me realize how sheltered we've kept the kids. I did let him go to the park the other day with some friends that came over. He invited five boys over :eek: and two neighborhood kids joined it. So, there were eight of them altogether.

Helene, your story about letting the man take Victor to the computer room reminded me of the bit of anxiousness I feel when they take all the kids out of mass for the children's liturgy. You hear all these stories about child abuse and the Catholic church and I'm letting my kids go off with adults where I can't see them. It's actually women who do it and it's nice because I have a good 20 minutes during mass where I don't have to referee the kids :rolleyes: (actually they're getting better). Then I feel angry that I should have to feel a twinge of nervousness at letting them go. I have to say I'd think twice about letting any of them be altar boys and I hate that I feel like that, but I'm just being honest. Not that I wouldn't let them, but you know.

Kim, you're right, abuse happens much more often from friends/family/acquaintances than strangers. How do you know who to trust? Colin does have a male teacher (he's all of about 23 - could be my son!). I have to say I really haven't worried at all about that - not sure why. They also have male PE teachers - haven't really been concerned with them either. I haven't worried about coaches since they're never really alone with them and most have been neighborhood people that we know. I don't know!! This parenting stuff is hard!!

On to more cheerful things...:D

OK, I guess this isn't really cheerful, but I think someone asked about Colin's tree. Someone pulled out what was left of it about a week ago. :confused: I don't get how someone can be so cruel. He had been faithfully watering the stick that was left - went out one day and they had pulled it out and left it there. We're planning to get him a regular starter tree. I'd love to put a surveillance camera on it.

Helene, I had to laugh about your story about Victor's stuffed animal. Colin and Ian are into their stuffed animals big time. Caitlyn just has a few she likes. Jameson just relented and gave away all but one of his a few weeks age. He had about 20. He's had a replica of Mr. Bean's bear since he was a baby. It was the one thing that we prayed would never get lost when he was younger since he was so attached to it. Slept with it - carried it around all the time. He's funny - he keeps it between his bed and the wall. I guess he still wants it for the comfort, but doesn't want anyone to see it! Ian and Colin, on the other hand, are obsessed with their stuffed animals. Colin has about 50, all arranged on his bed. Luckily, most of them are small. Ian has close to 100. About 15 of those are monkeys. He has them all arranged on the end of his bed and they take up half of his bed. He sleeps width-wise on his bed. I'll have to take a picture - it's pretty funny.

Last night Jameson asked me why his voice sounded funny. I haven't noticed at all, but then he said something and it sounded hoarse or deeper or something. He's almost 12, so it could be starting to change. :eek: Yikes, are we ready for this?? ;)

Colin and Ian both have big school projects due next week. School is almost out - I don't know why they always have these projects the last month.

Colin's soccer team made the playoffs. They tied their first game and won last night 3-0, so I think they made it into the next round. I feel bad, because Colin has really gotten good and his team is really good and poor Jameson is suffering on the team he's on. I'm trying to find a different league for him to play on. I got a bit upset last night at what a player did on the other team. They had blown the whistle, so play was dead. This player comes up to Colin and just bumps into him really hard with his chest and knocks him down. :confused: Colin is really not the type to fight or play mean. He just got up and walked it off. Five minutes later he scored a goal on the kid. I was proud of him for not retaliating against the kid - he just made up for it by scoring!

Kim, sorry to hear your biking experience didn't go so smoothly today. Hopefully your bike will still be there. Or maybe not ;), so you can upgrade!

I could write more, and I know I didn't respond to everyone, but I must get back to work!!!

Oh, happy belated Mother's Day to all!

[LA98]

Hi everyone, first there's no thread for a while, now there are so many responses I don't know where to start!

Lara, we're having a yard sale this weekend too. Good luck with yours!

Susan, what a crazy story about your neighbor and CPS. And so sorry about the foal, how very sad.

Heather, glad you enjoyed Thomas again. You went to PA, right? We'll be heading that way in September to go the amusement park nearby, and were thinking about hitting the train museum too since we missed it when we went to Thomas two years ago.

Helene, I had to laugh about the way Victor let you know he was done with Baby! And that he wants new wallpaper too. He just sounds so grown-up now. I'd say the $4 was money well spent. :) Oh, and we made it to Worcester in 3 1/2 hours again, including stopping to give Jason a bottle. :D

Joanne, I can't believe someone pulled out Colin's tree! :mad: And after all he was doing to try and take care of it. What a rotten thing... And good for him for keeping cool when the kid hit him during the game. I guess no coach or referee saw it? Figures.

Kim, along the lines of what you were saying, I've heard some moms talking about one of the first-grade teachers in the school in town (who's young and male). They were sort of questioning why he'd want to teach and were just sounding so...suspicious, I guess. I wasn't part of the discussion but I found it disturbing to hear.

I have to say, I started thinking/worrying about the bathroom/locker room situation when I found out I was pregnant with a boy. :rolleyes: Years ago, before I had Brian or even was married, I had seen a story on Dateline or 20/20 about a boy who had been molested in a bathroom at a campground while his entire family was like 10 yards away or something like that. I know there's more to worry about with someone familiar, rather than a stranger, but that d@mn story has stuck in my mind all these years....

And I've been very interested in the helicopter or free-range discussion you've been having. I know I'm more helicopter right now, but Brian's impulsiveness hasn't been leaving me much choice. I've tried to give him some room and I ended up regretting it each time -- for example, leaving him in the backyard on the swings to run into the house for just a second, after telling him not to go anywhere, only to come out and he's gone. :( And I wouldn't be comfortable not holding his hand crossing the street or even walking through a parking lot, I simply can't trust him. :(

Which leads me to this: the ADHD thing has reared its head again. :( His speech therapist told me he's technically not allowed to diagnose ADHD but knows it when he sees it, and says that Brian definitely has it. He has mentioned twice that I should consider having him seen by a pediatric neurologist. I won't rant and rave here about the whole thing but it's been very upsetting. I could see him saying this if Brian was completely wild and out of control. But he's not! In fact, the therapist said the last 3 sessions have been very good, he's sitting in his chair, following directions, and really trying to do what's being asked of him. I asked his teachers at school for an update, they say he's about the same. I think I'm seeing some improvement at home, probably because we've been spending so much time outside in the good weather, and he's really getting to burn off some energy...

I'm trying so hard to find some sort of middle ground between being in denial and a rush to judgment (or diagnosis as the case may be) but it's frustrating and upsetting. Then there's things like what happened today at the playground: Brian was playing with a boy who looked to be his age, maybe younger. They were running around and whatever, then another little boy showed up and the three of them were playing. Not too much later, the two boys were trying to hide from Brian and running away from him when he found them. Brian finally came over by me and Jason and said they didn't want to play with him. I hear him say this about the boys in his class too. :( I'm just not sure what's going on. The kids at his old school used to fight over him like he was a wishbone, they all wanted to play with him. But they were all 3 then, and that's a lot different I know. I was just so sad seeing this today I could've cried. In fact, I could cry now thinking about it...

Ugh. I feel like I'm always whining on this thread! I had a very nice Mother's Day this year. DH's record on Mother's Day has been rather, shall we say spotty? :) This year, I got cards from all three of them, DH got up to take care of Jason when he woke up at 5:15 am (a first!!!) and I got to sleep till 8:15! It was *awesome*. Then we went to a local zoo, which was a lot of fun. It's undergone a ton of renovations since the last time I was there, which I think was a field trip in 3rd grade. ;) And we got takeout for dinner so I didn't have to cook. All in all, a great day! Last week I took Brian off of Singulair for the summer. I'm so excited to see how he does. He got through all of fall and winter with just a very minor episode of bronchitis, during which he barely coughed. We see the pulmonologist in about a month or so to see what he thinks. And tomorrow, we're off to the circus with Brian's school. He's really looking forward to it and so am I!

Lori

[RunnerKim]

Lori - glad you had a really nice Mother's Day! I know what you mean about stories sticking in your head. During that recent conversation I had with coworkers about helicopter vs. free-range I found out that she had an older sister who was killed by a drunk driver (sister was 5) but her mom was still raised her "free range." Holy Cow that would be tough!

You reminded me that I should try cutting back Lainey's Flovent again. It went so well for awhile during the winter that I'm hopeful this summer we can reduce it.

What a heart-breaker with seeing those boys dismiss Brian. I know this is the age that kids start forming those types of relationships - including and excluding. I'm so not looking forward to that part of it. :(

Anyone have fun plans for the weekend? We're having a bit of a heat wave here so I'm not looking forward to Lainey's t-ball game tomorrow at 1:30.

Sunday we're planning a bike ride & picnic with my sister and nephews. (my bike was waiting for me at the transit center yesterday - whew. Not only that but I'd left the little under-seat pouch on it with my cell phone in it - still there too. Double whew).

Kim

[JoanneOR]

((((Lori)))), hugs on both the situation with Brian and those boys and with the speech therapists observations. I do remember Cheryl going through similar feelings with Garrett maybe last year - hopefully she'll get a chance to read your post and be able to offer some advice. Just remember, whatever "label" they try to slap on Brian, it doesn't change at all who he is, he's still the same kid you raised and loved. He's still so young, I hate how they try to categorize kids who may be more spirited or active or restless or whatever. Everyone is different. Have you discussed it with your pediatrician? Maybe talk with him/her about what the therapist said and ask what they think you should do, if anything. And, I've never heard of going to a pediatric neurologist for ADHD????

As far as the situation with the boys shunning Brian, I so know how you feel on that one. I think it almost hurts us more than them. Jameson was in the same situation. From preschool to the beginning of third grade he was so well liked, lots of friends. When he moved up to fourth early, he was the outsider. Kids made fun of him and he really felt alone in fourth and fifth grade. It killed me because we made the decision for him to skip the grade and he was miserable socially. Thankfully he's made new friends in the middle school and is really happy. Kids can be so finicky and mean!! I'm so happy he's fitting in more and has found a group of friends that I let him invite five of them over the other day. :eek: I can see the same dynamics going on with Caitlyn. Girls are worse, I think. Yesterday I chaperoned her field trip to a children's farm. Caitlyn and two other girls were in my group. One was the girl she always seems to have issues with. We're on the bus on the way back to school and the girls starts telling Caitlyn that she's having a party tomorrow (which was a Thursday) and that she's having an ice cream machine, snow cone machine, clowns, ponies, etc., etc., but that Caitlyn was not invited. Obviously she was making up the whole thing, but Caitlyn was all upset when we got home that she wasn't invited to the party. I told her the girl was making it up, she wouldn't be having a party on a weekday and her birthday is in the fall anyway. It doesn't get any easier as they get older!!

Kim, glad your bike and cell phone were safe and sound! We actually don't have any plans for the weekend, which is unusual for us! Today is DH's birthday, so I think we'll go out for dinner with some neighbors either tonight or tomorrow. But, that's really it. I'd like to get some landscaping done on our house.

Hope everyone has a good weekend!

[tbb113]

Last night Jameson asked me why his voice sounded funny. I haven't noticed at all, but then he said something and it sounded hoarse or deeper or something. He's almost 12, so it could be starting to change. :eek: Yikes, are we ready for this?? ;)

Colin and Ian both have big school projects due next week. School is almost out - I don't know why they always have these projects the last month.



Joanne - Yes Jameson's voice could be changing. I seem to remember that it happens around 12 or 13 (many a bar mitzvah boy has his voice crack during the service). And I'm full convinced that they have school projects due so there is something to show off at open house!

[cchhbb]

Lori, I wish you lived around the corner so I could come over and give you a big hug. It's so stressful when people without medical degrees start labeling your child. Just because a child doens't fit into a certain mold doesn't mean he has significant issues, especially ADHD. The tests for ADHD don't even begin to be reliable until age 6 according to our Doctor. Granted, I think Garrett probably has it, but we aren't going to consider testing until he is older.

I think kids like Brian and Garrett need a lot of time to run around. Think about how we were as kids. At 4, I didn't attend a preschool. I spent a lot of time playing outside. In today's world, we want our boys sitting at tables doing schoolwork that they aren't really ready for.

I was really upset about Garrett's fine motor delay when he was about 3. His preschool teacher made me feel like he was doomed for life. I spent a lot of time working with him and hired OTs, but his Doctor told me he's a boy and he'll catch up. We'll he probably is still somewhat delayed in fine motor, but he really has made great progress since he was 5. A friend who is an OT reminded me that 3 year olds aren't really structured to hold pencils and not to get worked up about handwriting until he was in 1st grade. I just think the expectations for children have risen so high. Kid's jobs are really to play.

That said, I am trying to give him experiences to help him. I'm spending a lot of time and money on OT.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I have to say it's a constant stress for me. I really try hard to focus on the great things about my son. He's smart, funny, sweet, and loveable.

Cheryl

[HRJ]

(((Lori))). I absolutely agree with everything Cheryl wrote.

From everything I know -- and while I'm certainly not a child-development expert, I do have a tendency to "over-research" anything related to the particular stage that my child is at -- 4 1/2 is just too young for any sort of diagnosis. I mean, think about it -- we expect 4 1/2 year old kids, (especially boys!) to be focused and mature? It's absurd. We have placed expectations on 3- 4- and 5-year olds that used to be placed on kids at 7 and 8. I know there are some kids, boys as well as girls, who have no trouble being very focused and have already developed great impulse control at that age -- but I think it used to be that those kids were considered "advanced" (for lack of a better word) -- now, we've shifted the curve, and behaviors that used to be considered "typical" for a 4-year-old are now labeled as being "deviant" in some way.

I remember when Victor was 4, I was taking him for the Sunday morning parent-child class at Hebrew School -- and one Sunday morning, he pulled his coat over his head, and refused to take it off -- just sat there, refusing to take the coat off or participate in the class in any way. And I was so mortified (because all the other kids seemed to be participating so nicely), and angry at Victor (because at the "advanced" age of 4, I thought it was time that he "got with the program") and panicked (because I thought this might be a sign of some larger, unaddressed developmental or psychological issue) -- just remembering that morning makes me stressed out. And, in the end, it was no big deal (I realize now) -- he was 4 years old, it was first thing in the morning and he wasn't interested in sitting in a classroom and listening to yet another teacher, and he's stubborn and he realized that the coat thing was really aggravating me and saw it as a good way to exert his will. But how many people observing that would have thought, "Uh-oh, that kid has a problem?" But really, what was *I* thinking, dragging him to a structured class like that (granted, it was only once a month) at that age, when he was already spending most of his week in a day-care "classroom" anyway?


We just got Victor's "report card" from kindergarten yesterday. His teacher mostly wrote about how he'd had a great year and was very ready to move on to 1st grade. Of course, I was pleased to hear this, but I was also thinking that the reason he'd probably had such a great year was because we'd waited for him to start K -- I think if we hadn't waited, it would have been a year of much more struggle. So part of me feels like some of his "success" (again, for lack of a better word) was engineered -- and part of me feels like the expectations for 5-year-olds (again, particularly boys) are so out-of-whack that it was our obligation to adjust things so that he was in the appropriate place. (Does that make any sense -- I guess I'm thinking about Cheryl's point about expecting kids to be sitting at tables doing schoolwork, when in previous generations those same kids would still have been outside running around.)

Anyway, Lori, please try not to stress out about this too much -- but I know that is easier said than done. Fortunately, you have another year before you need to deal with the expectations and structure of elementary school. When I think about the difference I saw in Victor between age 4 and 5, and then between 5 and 6, it's amazing.

About the social thing -- the boys excluding him -- I know how much that can hurt, too -- and the hurt probably lasts longer for us as the moms than it does for the kids. I'd suggest waiting to see how things develop in pre-K, with new kids, a new dynamic, etc. (I'm also wondering if the kids at Brian's current preschool may also be picking up on the negativity that the teachers feel toward Brian. :( ) Also, maybe you could concentrate on trying to set up lots of one-on-one playdates for him with the kids at his new school, right toward the beginning -- I think once kids have a chance to spend some one-on-one time with each other, outside of school, it's more conducive toward continuing those friendships at school.


Kim, glad your bike -- and cell -- were safe and sound. They don't let passengers bring bikes on the trains around here during peak hours, so the bike racks at the "T" station are usually very full -- I see lots of very high-tech looking bike locks there. I don't know much about what kind of locks are available, or how much they cost, but maybe you could look into some sort of super-duper lock, if that would give you some more peace of mind about the bike while you're at work? (Of course, you wouldn't want to end up paying more for a lock than your bike is worth! ;) )

Fairly quiet weekend here -- Victor and DH are at soccer at the moment, and DH just called to say they were going to go out to lunch after that. (DH does more fast-food with Victor than I'd like, but I'm not going to argue the point :rolleyes: ). Victor has a playdate this afternoon, and I invited the mom to stay for tea. I also want to spend some time going through stuff for the upcoming yard sale -- or, I might take a trip to the garden center later on.


Helene

[MrsReber]

Hello- I am still here and alive (barely!). Busy weekend. On Thursday, I went on Brenden's class trip to the zoo. That was nice. He's a funny kid in that he's not all that interested in fitting in. Other kids talk to them and he talks to them, but he's not as social as Casey is in that respect. He doesn't go out of his way to hang out with the other kids, though he gets along with them all. He spent most of the time talking with me. He got to ride the elephant there, too. I rode with 3 other moms, which was great. One mom I already knew. I found out the other two live pretty close to us. It was nice to get to know them because I feel that the four of us are really on the same page with things. Some of the moms around here are very young and not so involved. Out of the four of us, we have 2 boys and 2 girls. One mom said "wouldn't it be great if this was the prom group later on?" Personally, I'd love that, too. It was about an hour ride to the zoo so we got to talk quite a bit.

On Friday, I went to field day. I got there at 8:00 and it was supposed to start around 8:30. However, the field was soaked from rain the night before so they told us to all come back at 9:45 and we'd have field day from 10-11:30. Better than not having it at all, I guess. Before I left, I ran into Casey's friend's mom. She said "good, I can go home and let the workers in. They're installing a new heat pump today." So I go home and on the way home, something flips off a trailer right in front of me and slams down on the road. I slammed on the brakes (gotta love anti-lock brakes) and missed it by a few inches. Meanwhile, there was someone coming the other way who almost hit me and I was on a blind curve in the road so the person coming up the road behind me almost hit me!!! Well, the third car to come up behind me was a cop and he put his lights on. As it turns out, a furnace fell off the trailer- came out of the box and everything. I don't know exactly what happened because it did fly up in the air. Anyway, yep, you guessed it, it was the other mom's heat pump! When I got back to the school at 9:45, I told her I was thinking of her. She said "my heat pump showed up all dented!" I told her it was almost completely demolished by my car. Thankfully there was enough room that it didn't come down on my car or my windshield.

Anyway, field day was good. 90 minutes of field day is about all I can stand, actually, but I felt bad for the kids because they just love it. I got home around 12, did some work, ate lunch, then had to pick the kids up early for Casey's riding lesson. Her instructor had to go into Lynchburg and couldn't do a lesson any later. They weren't doing anything at school anyway. They have a volleyball game between teachers and students. The younger grades don't have the patience to sit and watch so they watch movies or play games in their class rooms. DH met us at Casey's riding lesson. We were there for a while then went to dinner for Casey's birthday.

Saturday was the party. We had 5 show up, but only 4 RSVPs. Oh well. With my 2, it was a group of 7, which I think is fine. Everyone got along great. The party started at 12, but I had to run around and get the cake and pizza that morning. We left the farm around 4:00 by the time we cleaned up and packed up everything. On Friday, I ran into Brenden's friend's mom and she invited us over Saturday after the party. We got there around 8:00, I think. Brenden was dying to go play with his friend. It was amazing. He's always been around Casey and her friends (all girls!) and it was so great to see him running around with boys (there was another boy there, too) and being a boy. It was Casey's turn to sit out. She was the only girl. The other friend went to sleep, but Brenden and his classmate were running around until after 10:00! Casey fell asleep on my lap. This family has 21 acres with a house and little cabin up behind their house. The cabin is very rustic- no electricity, no bathroom- but it's great. The father restored it and it's really cool. We were sitting by the cabin with the fire going. The kids roasted marshmallows for a bit and they made peach cobbler in the fire, too. The foodie in me is dying to learn how to do that! They're a nice couple and, I think, a few years older than DH and me. They said they don't have a whole lot of friends in the area, though they've been here 17 years. Most of the other parents are much younger. They start awfully young here. So maybe we'll have some new friends, too. Brenden and this other boy have birthdays only a couple of days apart. DH said we should do a combined birthday for them, which is probably a great idea.

Casey rode Goodnight yesterday for the first time since she lost the baby. She seemed quite energetic. She's been running around and flaunting herself in front of the boys. Seems she's come into season. There's the "foal heat" which happens right after a mare gives birth. It's funny to see her strutting all around and looking for the boys (who are all gelded!). I'm just glad that the pony is okay. She's doing very well. The vet checked her out last Thursday and said she looked good.

Somewhere in the midst of all that, I hurt my lower back. I feel like something is out of place. It started on Friday and yesterday was really bad. I had ice and heat on it and put mineral ice on it. I think I need to call the chiro today and get in. I know something is out of place and I've had luck with the chiro in the past. I thought maybe exercise would help yesterday. Yeah, that was not good! I think I made it worse. I can't pick stuff up from the floor without pain.

Lori, I'm sorry you're going through all of this! I know DH's neice is ADHD, but nobody ever diagnosed her as a child. She didn't get a formal diagnosis until she was an adult. As a child, she was involved in a lot of activities and always running around so nobody really noticed. Also, it wasn't viewed as such a "problem" then. His neice is in her late 20's now. They seem so quick to diagnose nowadays. I guess it helps them with intervention in some cases, but it gets me that they're so willing to label, but seemingly not so willing to work with you. Do they need a label in order to do their jobs as teachers? Grr.

Joanne, how sad about the tree! What is wrong with people? Is there somewhere else you could put another tree that no one could bother it?

Kim, I'm glad your bike and your phone were still there! In NJ, I was always worried my car would disappear from the train station. Cars were always being broken into. Kudos to you for biking, though. That's great. How was the heat wave? My heat is on this morning! May 19th and my heat is on?? Crazy.

[TLee4]

Busting in on your thread with a question for Joanne.
(I know I could just PM you Joanne, but I thought other people might be interested too!)

I remember that one time you said that you decorate your kid's bedrooms on their birthdays. I thought that was so nice and I am going to start it when Joey turns 2 (June 2). But how do you do it? Do you sneak in at night and do it when they are sleeping or what?

Thanks,
Terri

[JoanneOR]

Hi Terri! I decorate their rooms after they go to sleep. My one son could sleep through a hurricane, so he's no problem! The others I think have waken up when I'm doing it, but pretend they're asleep! I'll also put balloons on their chair in the kitchen for breakfast.

Wow, Susan, what a scary incident on the highway! Glad you were able to avoid it all. I kept reading thinking, oh no, something bad must have happened! Relieved to hear you're OK. We had our field days Friday, too. DH was in charge of all the food, so was running all last week trying to get donations. I couldn't take off work since I had taken off earlier in the week for Caitlyn's field trip. DH was exhausted by the end of the day.

Helene and Cheryl, you both have great perspectives on the expectations people have for kids nowadays. I think expectations in kindergarten and even preschool are way higher now that when we were kids. I don't think most kids even went to preschool back then - I know I didn't. That's great about Victor's good report. I know it's easy to wonder if it's because you held him back it bit - but take pride (I'm sure you do!) in how well he's doing!

We wound up having a pretty busy weekend after all. Friday was DH's birthday. He was tired so we just had pizza and cake with the neighbors. Saturday him and the boys were working on the backyard. He's promising me we're finally going to get some sod where our pool used to be (it's only been about 8 years! :rolleyes:) But the boys cleared out a bunch of rocks and weeds. Saturday we went out to dinner with some friends and Sunday Jameson had a soccer game. We again got slaughtered and the other team at times were laughing at our team and the goalie even was laying down a few times in front of the goal, like saying he didn't even need to worry about defending his goal. Jameson did score one goal on a penalty kick, though, so he was happ about that. Oh well, the season's over now. Colin has a shootout with a team they tied last week in a playoff game. They had to call it because of lightning. I think each team gets five shots and whoever scores the most wins. If they win, they continue in the playoffs. Talk about pressure! I just hope they don't put Colin in the goal.

[MrsReber]

Joanne, it was a scary incident! I still can't believe I didn't hit anything and nobody hit me. The owner of the heat pump couldn't belive it, either. They did get her a new one right away. And they secured it a bit better. They swore up and down they had it secured, but it wasn't held on by anything except one cord. Not good!

Well, the IL's are at it again. MIL hasn't sent Casey or Brenden anything (not a gift or a card or even a phone call) since we left NJ. SIL called a couple of weeks ago and said that we had to look at a website for riding stuff and pick something out for Casey. What Casey really needs is a bridle. The website they wanted us to choose from had some pretty cheap stuff. I directed them to another website with a better quality bridle and with free shipping. The bridle that I found cost less than the only acceptable one on the website SIL gave us. DH told me to send SIL the information, which I did, and never heard back. Nothing ever showed up for Casey's birthday. Now MIL tells DH this morning that SIL ordered it and we're getting the run around. I just love them. DH thinks maybe it was more than they wanted to spend. They were splitting the cost between 3 or 4 of them. Considering MIL hasn't sent her anything since we moved in 2006, I didn't think it was too big a stretch. I wouldn't mind so much if she wasn't handing out gifts to everyone else for every occasion. I didn't mention anything to Casey because they rarely come through. Hadn't had an IL vent in a while! I guess moving away has its advantages!

Joanne, our field day was only a few hours. I was surprised it wasn't longer. When I was in school, it was an entire day and we all brought lunches to eat outside.

I think so many boys are held back these days. There's only one other boy who is 5 in Brenden's class right now and there's one who is 7 or going to be 7 shortly. It's getting to be the norm these days, it seems. Also, Casey has 2 girls in her class who are 8 or ready to turn 8 (the rest are 7). I agree with Joanne, I wouldn't think twice about it. Just be proud that he's doing so well and he's ready to move on.

[RunnerKim]

One of my nephews has been diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD). It happened when he was in 3rd grade and it has made a big difference for him. His reading skill level jumped significantly in a very short period of time. I can always tell if he's had his meds or not. One of his biggest symptoms is how...emotional or dramatic he gets about things. I could tell in his reading too - he'd go off on tangents all the time. I wanted to support discussing what we were reading but it was way too much even when I put the "it has to relate to what we're actually reading" requirement.

3rd grade. Not K. Not pre-K. Granted his isn't ADHD but still.

I agree with the others - K (and down in to pre-K) has really become so much more rigid. At our K orientation they even said it's not the same type of K that we went to as kids.

(((Lori)))

Susan - glad Midnight is doing so well. How very very scary about the furnace almost hitting you and then the other cars. Whew. Could you have hurt your back in stopping so quickly?

Joanne - do the coaches do anything about the incredibly poor sportsmanship? Wow that is just so dis-heartening to hear about. :( How hard it must be for Jameson and his teammates.

My bike lock is actually worth about half the cost of my bike! Lainey mentioned the other day that we'd accumulated 25 miles of "car mile credits" and I calculated that to mean we've saved around $5 so far. And let's see we bought 2 bike locks ($50), rear view mirror thingys to wear on our glasses ($24)....

The kids convinced us to go grocery shopping by bike this weekend. Theoretically DH and I had said we should do that because Safeway is on the edge of the neighborhood and just over 1/2 mile from our house. However, it just hasn't been uh convenient. But Lainey's on a mission to color in the grid on the "car mile credit" path. She wants to earn another ice cream cone. I know I've read using food as a reward is a bad idea but I seem to keep doing it/don't have better options [I'd love to hear what other people do or if they even worry about food/reward thing].

Jamie then wanted to ride "Big Red" (his trike). I knew that I'd regret it but I said he could. Sure enough I ended up walking his trike and my bike almost the entire way home. But he didn't complain about having to ride in the trailer when we went to the library after that!

Our heat wave still hasn't let up. T-ball on Saturday afternoon was intense. Everyone was talking about how a just a few weeks before we'd been snowed/hailed out and now it was mid-90s.

Kim

[tbb113]

Here is a link to an article in the local paper about kindergarten today

http://www.contracostatimes.com/search/ci_9304365

I know that 13 years ago when Michael was in kindergarten, he did have some homework, but Alex is telling me that he doesn't remember having any 10 years ago. I do think that in general there is more emphasis on test taking, learning the test, etc then actual education today compared to when I was in school.

[LA98]

Thanks again, everyone. It's amazing how much a few supportive words can really lift your spirits. :) For whatever confusion I may be feeling on this issue, I'm more angry with the therapist, who definitely crossed a line with me. The low point of the conversation we had was when I said something about "when he starts school" and he said, "Well, you're assuming he'll be mainstream." Okay, so my son hasn't even started *kindergarten* yet and you're telling me he's going to be special ed?? :mad: Absolutely, totally insane. And although 6 or 7 is widely considered to be the age for diagnosis, there are apparently plenty of doctors out there who will diagnose 4-year-olds *and* medicate them. Also totally insane!

Cheryl and Helene, I've always had a very similar perspective on expectations, etc as you have. But, we've been in so many situations in recent months where it appears that the vast majority of kids Brian's age *can* handle what's being asked of them (sitting or following directions or whatever) so that's made me question whether or not I'm making excuses for him. If I'm going to be completely honest, I'd have to say that in my heart I think he may very well be ADHD (I read something about ADHD kids as infants, and OMG it described Brian exactly :( ). I'm simply not willing to start walking down that path now. If he was really controllable, totally disrupting school and home, etc, I would do something now. But he's nowhere near that level at all. If that's denial, so be it for now!

What's really been fascinating to me about all this is the gender angle. Perfect example: We had a play date with Brian's little kissing partner, I mean friend ;) , the other day. Now, this girl's birthday is at the very end of September (our cutoff is Oct. 1). I would say she is definitely as immature as Brian is (must be why they're getting along so well!), she's getting the same comments from the teachers, etc. Her mom was struggling with the send-or-hold-back decision, but she said everyone keeps telling her that her daughter should go because "she's a girl, she'll be fine." Does anyone else find this astounding?? Boys will struggle and flounder if they go, but a similar girl will do okay? Wow. Just wow.

Okay, I've taken my deep breaths and I think I'm okay. I am not entering into any more conversations with the speech therapist that do not relate to SPEECH! One thing I'm interested in though, is how does everyone handle keeping things learned in school fresh over the summer? I'm thinking particularly about handwriting. I would think it would be good for Brian to keep practicing every day. He does like those little workbooks, but they hold little appeal against the great outdoors. Even Jason is in on it now, banging on the door to go play outside! He was screaming furious with me the other day when I wouldn't take him out to play in the pouring rain! :rolleyes:


Joanne, I can't believe that little girl making up that party story! It amazes me that the meanness can start so early. :( I was thinking the same as Kim, did the coach or anyone do anything about the kid laying in the goal?

Susan, wow, scary story about the furnace! And you weren't even on the NJ turnpike. ;) :) Hope your back is feeling better? I've had a bad disc in my back for about 20 years now. It only bothers me once in a while (except when I was pregnant, then the pain was constant!) And your MIL is just really unbelievable. Again! So sorry you have to deal with such nonsense.

Kim, how did you carry the groceries back?? Personally, I think the ice cream reward is okay. Better than yet another toy!

Tyra, thanks for posting that link. Timely story, and exactly what Helene has been saying for a while. I barely have any recollection of kindergarten at all -- as hard as I've tried, all I can seem to remember is the playground and walking out the door to my mother's car. Now doesn't that just speak volumes for my experience?! :p

Oh, and I reported the idiot spammer above Tyra's post!

Lori

[MrsReber]

Lori, thanks for reporting the spammer. I wanted to do that last night, but kept getting stuck for some reason.

My IL's are interesting, to say the least. I just want to know if they're really sending the bridle because my grandmother sent money, as she does for every single birthday, and I'd only have to add a couple of dollars in order to get the bridle that we need (the good one).

Lori, I know of three girls in our local school that were kept back. If I think about it, I think it's best to hold them back a year than to start them and have to have them repeat a grade later. Casey has 2 girls in her class that were kept back in 1st grade. One of them is a really nice, funny girl. The other one tries to copy off her and the other kids all the time, so nobody likes her very much. But anyway, I disagree with the theory that "she's a girl, send her anyway" if she's really not ready. I've seen a few girls here that should've been held back from starting.

As for keeping learning going over the summer, we do a few things. I have no structure to this. My kids love the library so we join the summer reading program there. It keeps them reading books. Each week they go, they can spin the wheel there and get a craft prize. They haven't even done most of the crafts, but they love the idea of spinning the wheel and picking something out to bring home. So we definitely keep up on our reading. Now we have math to throw into the mix. When we go to the library, we sometimes take out computer games (Jumpstart disks) and they play with those. Then we also have some workbooks. Also, they like to play school. It might be easier for me since my two are so close in age. Casey loves to teach Brenden stuff and he enjoys learning.

Boys in general can't sit still as long as girls, though. I don't know how K classes are in other places, I can only comment on ours. However, they do activities in 30 minute increments and try to keep things moving. They cover a lot of ground in one day. I'm surprised. The other young 5 in Brenden's class was wild at the beginning of the year. Brenden didn't like him one bit. But by the end of December, he had settled down and they became friends. I was talking with the boy's mother and he said it was a rough start. It takes time to adjust. With Brenden, he had been in daycare since he was 4 months old so being in a group and sitting and waiting his turn were a way of life for him. He didn't always enjoy it and he had a few rough days here and there, but for the most part, for 3 days a week, and they were long days (about 10 hours), he had to learn to get along in the daycare. Transitioning to grade school wasn't a big deal for him. He also had his big sister to help socialize him, so he's been pretty lucky so far.

GMA is actually doing a story on ADD this morning and medicating your child! Just heard it.

[HRJ]

I didn't see the spam, but whatever it was, it seems to be gone now. Thanks, CL folks!

Lori, interesting point about the gender differences. You're absolutely right. It must be even harder to have a young-5 girl who doesn't seem ready for K (as compared to a boy), because with the boys, the general attitude is, "oh, of course boys are less mature, of course boys will have a harder time sitting still in school, etc," (And, then there are the people who start talking about how holding a boy back a year will be beneficial for sports. :rolleyes: ). But with girls, the expectations are different, and I think there is a bit more of a stigma if a girl is labeled "too immature" for K.

Another anecdotal story -- I know of a friend-of-a-friend who had girl who just barely made the K. cutoff -- sent her to K "on time," partly because the "conventional wisdom" is that you don't hold girls back. She did not have a good year in K, at least socially, because she was very much behind the other girls socially, and she did not succeed in making friends, and was often the victim of other girls' meanness. The parents considered having her repeat K, but the school administration recommended against it, because academically, she was OK -- not excelling, but still testing out in the right range. But by 2nd grade, she was still having major social difficulties, and her school work started slipping, because she was so unhappy about going to school. So they finally moved her to a private school, and had her re-do 2nd -- maybe it was just the change of environment, or maybe being with a slightly younger age group, but apparently things are 100 percent better for her this year. But, the private school is a real financial stretch for this family -- it just makes me think that if only this girl *had* waited a year, maybe her whole public school experience would have been different?


Needless to say, these kinds of expectations hurt both girls and boys, IMO.

Lori, about the speech therapist -- I'm just curious -- is he young? I'm making a big generalization here, but I think sometimes younger people tend to be eager to parrot back stuff they've read in their texbooks, but they don't have the real-life experience to put things in perspective. I guess I'm basing that on a couple of experiences I had with the first therapist that Victor had from Early Intervention. But yes, I think the guy is being totally out of line, and is really stretching his area of expertise.

About the idea of other kids Brian's age being able to handle situations better -- I don't know, I'm thinking out-loud here, sort of, but I'm also wondering if the parents of the "more spirited" kids also tend not to get their kids involved with these activities as much, because they've realized it's going to be difficult -- sort of a chicken-and-egg thing, I guess. I'm thinking about all the stuff I signed Victor up for -- Music Together, preschool T-ball, preschool Hebrew School, preschool Spanish -- that we either dropped out of, or that became a real struggle for us when we slogged through them.


Susan, what a scary experience, with the furnace on the road! I'm glad you weren't hurt. The fact that the furnace belonged to someone you know, though, is just bizarre. Glad that the pony is doing well.

Victor's school will be having a field day, but I have no idea what it's like. I was under the impression it wasn't something the parents were involved in, but maybe I'm wrong about that. When I was in school -- in NYC -- we never had any such thing.


About keeping up over the summer -- those are good suggestions. I've been thinking about that, too. Last year we joined the summer reading club, but our problem is that Victor is in day-camp 5 days a week for most of the summer, and our town libraries are closed on Sat. and Sun. during the summer (%#*! budget cuts!). So that leaves the one night a week they are open late, and, to be honest, it was just too difficult for us to get there after a day of work/camp. The only thing I can think of right now is maybe I could combine going to the library and then eating dinner out (maybe even getting ice cream afterward ;) ).


Kim, I also was wondering how you get the groceries home -- in the trailer? That's my problem with Trader Joe's -- it's within easy walking distance, but then I have to carry/drag all my purchases home (up my steep hill), and even if I take my little wheeled cooler cart (which is what I use when we walk to the town beach at the bottom of the hill), I usually buy more groceries than will fit in the cart. I give you a lot of credit for earning all those "bike miles."

I wouldn't worry too much about the occasional ice-cream reward, or something like that -- as long as it doesn't seem to be getting out of control. Right now, my "bribe of choice" ;) is either Pokemon cards or Star Wars cards, available for about $2 a pack at our local comic-book store. (That place is like Geeky-Guy Central -- Victor is in heaven when we walk in there. :D ) Oh -- also baseball cards. Would collecting those appeal to Lainey?


I can't believe you're having weather in the mid-90s? :eek: My biggest nightmare!


Tyra, thanks for posting that article. :)



Here's an example of bad timing -- since we decided to postpone our yard sale, we have a living room full of junk (and I mean FULL!) waiting to be sorted. But I also had invited some families from the synagogue over this Friday for Shabbat dinner. So now I'm praying that the weather is nice, so we can use the deck -- otherwise, we're all going to be very crowded inside. :eek:


This weekend, we're going to my MIL's in upstate NY. Anyone have big plans for the long weekend?


Helene

[RunnerKim]

I missed the spam too - thanks for getting it taken care of!

Helene - I hope you have good weather so you can eat on the deck! Wow - no weekend library hours :eek: I'd rather see the library close for at least one day during the week and keep it open one day on the weekend.

I haven't to this point really worried about Lainey's... academics for lack of a better word. I hadn't even thought about writing practice. We do read and read a lot (both her and us). I guess I feel a bit of a cushion with her repeating K.

Lori - I can't believe that therapist said that about "mainstream" :eek::mad: Even non-mainstreamed kid "start school"!!!! I'm not at all an expert but I have a friend who has a child with autism (and not the "high functioning" kind) and he's being mainstreamed in to a 1st grade class. I know it varies considerably from district to district but I think the belief is to mainstream kids as much as possible. To assume a child is not going to be mainstreamed is assuming there are some major issues these days and that is just totally inappropriate for this person to be saying. Wow.

Lori - what does your pediatrician say about all this? You have a good relationship there right? (I'm thinking you must with all you've been through). I guess if it were me and I had concerns as you do, I'd find a professional (I'm not even sure what field that would be, but hopefully the pediatrician could help with that) that I felt I could really talk with. Find out what, if any, reasons you'd want to pursue a "diagnosis" now. Could it help setting reasonable expectations for his behavior? Could it get more appropriate services from your district? So what if he does happen to have ADHD - what does that mean for him at this point? If he's too young to be diagnosed what other things might be helpful to him at this age. What are the downsides of diagnosing him at this age? All those types of things. It sounds to me like you've already considered all of this and maybe you just need a good succinct answer to give to these overly helpful people. Something like "thank you for your opinion, we're working with his doctor" or something.

All this pressure on such young kids. It really bugs me that age is the sole determining factor of what kids are ready for. Well age and gender apparently.

And I agree with Helene's point - I'd bet a lot of parents with kids that might not conform so well to "good behavior" standards have long since stopped doing some of the activities Brian is doing. I'm not comparing the depth of our situations but having my active kids on public transit is not something many parents choose to do, regularly at least. I can't tell you how many times I see calm, sedate children simply sitting on the train and not making a peep. This morning Lainey was howling like a coyote and Jamie was singing some song that I couldn't identify and then playing the "guess this animal" game loudly insisting that there was an animal with 11 legs and it was an elephant. Parents have told me that they just don't want to deal with that hassle and pay the money to drive/park. So I'm sure there are other kids out there that would behave like mine on public transit but I sure don't see them very often.

More ((((Lori))))

Yes, we took the groceries home in the trailer. It wasn't a problem at all since both kids "rode" their own bikes. But even if Jamie was in the trailer there would have been room. Shopping that way did check my "stock up" impulse so it wasn't a big shopping trip.

We were going to bike commute today but the rain came in. At least the heat wave is broken. Whew. That was just uncalled for. I felt like I was back in the midwest.

I wonder what Lainey would think about cards. She has some Pokemon cards but she doesn't understand them at all (her cousins have passed them on to her). How do most kids learn about those things? Do they learn it from other kids? I hear my nephews rattling off all these creatures.

What makes food such a nice reward is that it is cheap (most of the time) and easily available in small amounts. And doesn't clutter up the house (of course if it clutters the waist line that's not a good trade off). Since I have life long food/weight issues I know I really over think this topic.

I need to stop in at the local toy store sometime this week to get a few more things for our plane trip this weekend, so maybe I'll keep an eye out for reward type things too.

Kim

A couple of photos from our grocery shopping by bike trip:
Locking up the fleet (good thing no one else biked!)

http://www.wierhere.net/portland/blog/uploaded_images/BikeGroceryLockingBikes-710836.jpg

Jamie saying that he's all done riding.
http://www.wierhere.net/portland/blog/uploaded_images/BikeGroceryJamie-754847.jpg

And this one is from a bike commute day when Lainey & I were waiting for Chris & Jamie to arrive at the transit center
http://www.wierhere.net/portland/blog/uploaded_images/IMG_1783-758887.jpg

[TLee4]

Thanks for responding, Joanne. :)

Terri

[MrsReber]

Helene, how rotten that the library doesn't have weekend hours! Our library is actually closed every Wed. They open at 10:00 on Monday, Tuesday and Friday, then on Thursday, they're open 12-8. Saturday is 10-1, which allows us plenty of time to drop in.

The GMA spot was interesting. Apparently there are some doctors who monitor brain activity to help kids who are diagnosed as ADHD. Other doctors seemed to find little value in it, but they had a story on one boy that was pretty extraordinary. They monitored his brain activity because he was having trouble processing language. They put him through tests and found that his IQ was somewhere around 140! However, he struggled in school. They were able to specifically treat that problem and the boy is now sucessful in school. I'm sure with so many kids being labeled these days, the treatment has got to get better.

I agree about "main streaming." I mentioned our neighbor with the daughter who has Down Syndrome and is autistic. She was in public school until last year. They at least gave it a try, and I understand she did well for a while, but they later decided that she needed more specialized instruction. She was in first or second grade before they switched schools. I just really wonder how someone can become involved in a career dealing with children and then be so insensitive to the child's family? I can understand a concerned teacher or healthcare professional saying something, but they should be a bit more cautious about "diagnosing" without any background or proof.

Kim, that's great about biking to the store. I wish our stores were closer. The closest one is about 4 miles, up and down large hills on windy roads. I at least explain the importance of planning out trips so we're not running to different places each day and using up gas.

I was talking to another parent the other day. I'm having a hard time explaining the concept of money now that we all use plastic for everything. Casey and Brenden understand how much each coin is worth, but they still don't get what that means. I remember going to the stores when I was younger and understanding how much I needed to buy something. My dad lived in NYC and me, my brother and sister were always walking to the corner store. I was around Casey's age. My kids still can't tell me what you can buy with a dollar. I asked Brenden what he could buy with a quarter. His answer was pretty funny- a roll of toilet paper. I have no idea where that came from. I just wonder if they don't understand the concept because I normally don't pay with actual money. When I lost my bank card, Casey told me we could borrow her friend's mother's card! They also get gift cards from relatives and that doesn't help the situation any.

No plans for the long weekend, except I want to try to get to the strawberry festival this year. It's a big deal at this one farm. A 3 day event, complete with tractor pull (hey, we're in the rural south!). Sounds like fun, though. They even have rides. I'm simply after the kettle corn. The following weekend, a co-worker is coming to visit with his wife. They'll stay at a B&B south of us, but they're going to come here on Sunday afternoon and hang out, have dinner. That should be fun.

I signed Brenden up for Superhero camp this morning. His friend's parents told me about the karate place in town. I can't ever seem to catch them. It seems they're only open a few days a week and then only for a few hours. You pay a price for 16 sessions and then you can go to any scheduled classes you want. They have 3 for Brenden's age group each week. Their son has been going and they like it a lot. I'll have to try to contact them again to find out about rates.

Kim, I like the pictures! Big sigh- my kids have outgrown their tricycle. I feel like I just put it together!

[hrk]

I have been reading, just haven't had time to post and I only have a few minutes so excuse me if I ramble.

Kim- That is great about all that biking. We have two grocery stores within easy walking distance but always struggle with how to get the groceries home. With gas prices though the wagon may be used more.

Helene- Have a safe trip to upstate.

Susan- Glad to hear Casey's party turned out great and that Goodnight is doing well enough to be ridden. That is crazy about the heat pump and very ironic that you knew the owner

Joanne- So sorry to hear about the tree, I hope you do plant another one. I never knew you decorated your kids rooms, how fun. My kids sleep so soundly they would probably love it.

Lori- I am so sorry to hear about all the strife you are feeling. I have a couple of personal comments to add, but I do agree with Kim that maybe it is time to talk to a professional.
One of my best friends older sons has pretty severe ADHD and is on medication, in personal therapy and group therapy for it. It has been a rocky road. I don't know when he was actually diagnosed, but she does say that if she knew then what she knows now, she would have held her son back a year. Apparently he is very smart but gets frustrated easily and can't read well. He had a terrible time in Kindergarten and it just got worse from there. Finally last year his therapist suggested looking into private school for him. Currently he is in an all boys school and apparently doing very well. He still has his bad days, but it seems to have been helped by the fact this school is very physical and does a lot of outdoors stuff, which has all but disappeared at most public schools. She also has a younger son and she swears that even though he isn't ADHD if he isn't reading before kindergarten he is going to repeat it.
From my own personal experience, we live in an area where holding kids back is very popular. In the catholic schools almost every boy is held back and it is mostly for sports because the private Catholic high schools are very competitive in sports. In our public schools the cutoff is September 1st for kindergarten and there are almost no exceptions and many who wait an extra year. Most of our private daycares and preschools offer what they call junior kindergarten meant for kids to do one year of private and then repeat in public.
In Logan's class we are dealing with this. He is the youngest boy (he has many friends turning 6 now or already in some cases)and while academically he is actually ahead of most of the kids and thus his teachers say to advance him, DH and I struggle with whether it will become a problem in later years, with things like drivers license etc. But I can also say that in some cases holding the boys back doesn't do much either if the problems aren't dealt with.
Personally DH and I are sacrificing to put Logan in a private school because we don't like what we see in our public schools (and they are some of the top ranked in the country) Our local elementary school gives the kids 15 minutes for recess a day 20 minutes of free play at lunch a day, 1/2 hour of PE twice a week, 1/2 hour of art, 1/2 hour of music and 1/2 or library a week. The rest is math and reading and they are very blatant about that. Whereas Logan goes out 3 times a day just with his class (even in the rain snow etc, which he loves) he has PE for 45 minutes everyday, he has creative movement once a week, science twice a week, library once a week and within his room they do both group time and choice time, with tons of art and building and reading and writing all mixed together.
I guess what I am trying to say is look at all the options that might be available and maybe even some that are possibilities and somehow you might be able to make it work.

Well Logan's birthday was Sunday and he had a great birthday party. We had 12 boys duckpin bowling for an hour and that was just the right amount of time and then we did pizza and cake. Logan was really into having his friends there this year and really seemed to be so happy. Then yesterday at school, DH, Ari and I went into his class in the afternoon for his birthday celebration. Each kid gets to have a celebration of their birthday the last 30 minutes of school. We brought in doughnuts at Logan's request, the kids all sang happy birthday to him and then he got to help pass out snack. I think he really enjoyed it especially since he is one of the last to go since he is at the end of the year.

The long weekend will be quite an adventure for us. We are taking the kids to Las Vegas. Now this would not have been my first choice but it is sort of dictated by circumstances. My grandfather owns a house there and it has been sitting for over a year now since he has gone into assisted living. Well now that he has had his eye surgeries and I think has accepted that this is where he will stay he wants his place cleaned out and sold. So we are going there over the long weekend, meeting my parents and my uncle and hopefully getting this finished. From what I understand it is in bad shape, mess wise. To add to that, it is my father 60th birthday tomorrow, so we thought we would at least try and have a little celebration for him and make it somewhat fun. So we are staying in a hotel on the strip. Warning RANT AHEAD Now my children are not perfect, but they have traveled all over the place including places like Tahiti, Grand Cayman, ST Thomas and Hawaii and have eaten in some very nice places (4 and 5 stars). They know how to behave and DH and I plan ahead bringing lots of books, workbooks, toys to keep them entertained. So I have been trying to get a reservation for dinner one night for my dads birthday and none of the restaurants will take kids under five. Now I realize that they don't have to have highchairs that way, the other diners aren't bothered. etc, but if children are constantly confined to places like the Rainforest Cafe and Cheesecake Factory (the two places everyone has told me to try) how do they ever learn to eat and behave in a real restaurant. Not to mention that my kids don't especially care for chicken fingers or pizza and would often rather eat what we are eating since that is the way they eat at home. I am especially annoyed since the hotel we are staying at won't let my kids in to their restaurants and yet they are charging me for them to be in the room. Oh well, I will be helping my family and then DH and I won't be taking the kids back there anytime soon:):)

Sorry for the novel. Hope everyone has a great weekend.
Heather

[LA98]

Helene, you know, I never thought about it, that parents of the "spirited" kids may not be putting them in activities. The speech therapist is not young/just out of school and really, as a parent himself, I'm surprised he's not more aware of how his information is coming across. I wonder how he'd like info about his children presented to him the way he presented mine to me! Enjoy your trip to NY.

Kim, first of all, your photos are great! Yes, we have an excellent relationship with our ped. DH and I have a lot of trust in him and respect for him. He has never steered us wrong once and he's been right the 5 times he's sent us on to a specialist. I've talked to him about it twice now, once when the teachers at school brought it up and now when the speech therapist did, and both times he's said we will deal with it when he starts kindergarten, unless we see things getting worse before then. I think I'm leaning that way too. This was a tumultuous year for Brian in so many ways, I want to see how things go with the dust finally settling...

Susan, LOL about the money discussion. Brian asked for something in the supermarket the other day and I distractedly told him I didn't have the money for it and he said "That's okay, just use your credit card." :p And please, please, tell me what the kids do in Superhero camp, I'm dying to know!!

Heather, I hear you on looking into the school options. We're having issues in our town about class sizes getting pretty large, no money in the budget for more classes/teachers, etc so we are already thinking ahead about Catholic school (although *cough* I'm still a bit scarred from my experience with one! :) ) Happy birthday, Logan! Glad he had fun at his party. Is duckpin bowling the same as candlepin? And that's ridiculous about the restaurants -- I see plenty of badly behaved children in restaurants, so you should be allowed to bring your well-behaved ones anywhere you want!

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Lori

[MrsReber]

Kim, I didn't give it any thought until you mentioned it, but I think slamming on my brakes last week probably contributed to my back pain. Just before I left for field day (the second time) that morning, I also mopped the floor, I'm thinking it was a combination of things- perhaps helping to move the furnace off the road, too. Anyway, it still hurts. 3 visits to the chiro, one to the regular dr for x-rays. It's very slowly getting better. I have never had such bad back pain. Good news is that it doesn't look bad on the x-rays or when I'm examined (no disc problems or fracture), it only hurts like he!! when I'm sleeping.

Anyway, back to the subjects at hand!

Only 9 more days of school! Where'd the year go? We were talking about keeping up during summer break. Well, Casey came home with 3 workbooks from her teacher with a note. The reading list will be coming, which is great. We like the library. I plan to work with Brenden more and get him reading better. He's improved a lot during the last couple of months. I don't want him to lose momentum.

This is the first year they're having Superhero camp. The description in the catalog says that each child picks a superhero for the day (it's from 9-1). They get to dress like the superhero and learn all about them through activities and crafts. Hopefully no one tries to fly! They promote the 6 pillars of character and incorporate it into the program. I'm wondering if they'll have enough kids. It's just a one week camp.

They hosted the vets yesterday on their way to DC. The kids have them sign their shirts. It was pretty cool. Casey had them sign all over her shirt so we could see the different states they came from. They start in CA and some join along the way. I was surprised at how many women were with them. The kids all love it. They sign for them while they're there. Casey came home with a bag of baby carrots. I know she hates carrots so I asked where they came from. She said "the veterans were trading us for cake!" Someone pulled a fast one on her. Brenden took the carrots for lunch today. If he doesn't eat them, the ponies will get a treat later.

Heather, I understand your frustration and I agree that well-behaved children should be discriminated against. I'm biased as a parent. I know that some people bring their kids out and let them do whatever they want. We remind our children each time we go out what is acceptable in a restaurant. This is something we've done for years. They get it. They have each been removed from restaurants by us so they know that we're serious about it. I won't let my child disrupt some else's meal. Unfortunately, not all parents understand that and then the rest of us get a bad name simply because we have children and we dare to eat in a nice restaurant. I hope you enjoy the trip anyway!

DH may have to work tomorrow. He's not sure yet. I want to get to the strawberry festival one day and do some major cleaning around here before we have guests next weekend. I'm trying to get DH to do some things around the house- small things that would be noticable like putting our closet doors back on. He keeps taking them off because he hates bi-fold doors and tells me he's going to "make" a door himself. So, while I'm waiting for pigs to fly, I am stuck with no doors on my coat closet and my linen closet for almost a year now. He suggested hanging a curtain :eek: !!!! Sorry- DH rant. He's got no problem fixing up the garage :rolleyes: Joanne, I hope you get your sod soon! I can very much relate!

[cchhbb]

Hi everyone.

We survived Pre-K. Garrett graduated today and is now a rising Kindergartener. He was pretty excited for school to be over. I have to say I'm not really going to miss his primary teacher. She was terrible about communicating with parents. I think she did a good job with the kids, but she was terrible with the details. His speech teacher loved, loved, loved him and she is planning on coming over to hang out with him this summer. She asked if she could adopt him. It was pretty cute.

On Tuesday, we had the pre-k performance and each class got up to sing. Garrett (who hates to sing with a group) told me that the songs were stupid and he wasn't going to do it. Okay, I said he would have to stand with the group. So I was braced for the worst and he did okay. He did do some of the arm motions for one song, but at one point turned around and had his back to the crowd.

The boys and I are leaving for Ohio tomorrow to visit my family. The kids are really excited. I told my parents to rest now since when I get there after driving all day I would be tired. DH isn't going so it's 10 hours plus in the car with the kids. We went to the dollar store after school and picked out some toys for the ride.

I need to run, but will try to check in from my parents.

[RunnerKim]

Happy (Belated) Birthday Logan!!!!
Have fun in Las Vegas. We don't travel that much but I thought LV had really become (or perhaps just bills itself that way) more of a "family" destination. Guess not in regards to restaurants. They won't even let you dine early? It wasn't a requirement but that's what we did when I was in New Orleans for a conference and DH and Lainey came along (before Jamie was born). I would not take my kids to a nice restaurant because we simply don't dine out enough for them to have learned what to do (and I'd question their ability to do it b/c of their personalities anyway). It annoys me when blanket rulings are made like that. I can see how frustrating that is for you!

Cheryl - yeah for Garrett! and glad he handled the concert better than expected.

Susan - I hope you're feeling better soon. :(

Lori - Hang tough. Tell anyone else that mentions anything "I appreciate your concern, we're on top of it with his doctor" and just leave it at that. And then come here and vent about it. I think one of the toughest parts about being a parent is not being able to just fix things that we (or other people) think need changing. Or even know how to fix it or if it's something to fix or just if, if, if...

Well are long awaited airplane trip has arrived. We leave at 6am tomorrow. I have all sorts of things packed to entertain the kids and had conversations with them about acceptable behavior.

I probably won't check in too often on the boards while I'm gone so everyone have a great Memorial Day weekend.

Kim

[hrk]

HI everyone! Hope everyone had a great Memorial Day

Cheryl- If you are checking in, hope you are having fun with your parents and that the car trip went OK. Congrats to Garrett on graduating to Kindergarten.

Kim- Hope the plan ride went well and that you guys had a good trip.

Susan- Did you make it to the Strawberry festival?

Well we had a great time in Vegas and the kids loved all there was to see. We flew in Friday afternoon and had a great view of the Hoover Dam and the Colorado river. We stayed at the Bellagio, compliments of my parents and they are known for this amazing water show in the front of their hotel where the have water fountains choreographed to music. Well we got lucky and got rooms that overlooked the water so the kids would have probably been content to never leave the window. My parents came in Friday night and promptly took the kids in their room, leaving DH and I some much needed alone time, which they repeated both Saturday and Sunday. It was sort of emotional closing up my grandfathers house and it was a lot of work, but it is done and listed on the market, so if you could keep your fingers crossed that it actually sells. And I did finally find a nice restaurant that would take kids, so Saturday night we celebrated my dad's birthdaywith a nice dinner and then Sunday night celebrated Logans birthday with dinner at the Rainforest cafe. Both had very nice birthday celebrations.

Now it's on to the end of school. Logan finishes up next Friday and the countdown is already on. And boy are they partying next week. They have one pizza party, one BBQ, one Ice cream sundae party and a day of Olympics to look forward to.

Hope everyone is well.
Heather

[HRJ]

How was everyone's long weekend? (OK, I know the weekend seems like a long time ago, now, but this is the first chance I've gotten to check in. :) )

Kim and Cheryl, hope your trips went well. Heather, glad you had a good time in Vegas, and especially that you were able to work something out for a nice birthday dinner. We had an OK trip to visit my MIL.

The Friday night before the weekend started, I had some families from my synagogue over for Shabbat dinner, including a family that is new to the congregation. They have 16-month-old twin boys -- they were so adorable, but, as you can imagine, quite a handful -- made me realize I don't miss the toddler days as much as I'd thought. ;) But it was funny -- everyone was making a big fuss over the babies, especially since the other families all had older kids -- and Victor started to get really jealous, and we ended up with some very obnoxious behavior on his end. (Not toward the babies -- but a lot of sulking, and following me around, and being very demanding, etc.) He even told me, at one point, not to invite the babies back again, because no one wanted to pay attention to him when the babies were there! I felt a little sympathetic toward Victor -- because it wasn't so long ago when he was the "cute little kid" -- but DH was having none of it; he told Victor it was time to shape up and start behaving like the big boy that he is. Anyway, now that Victor has gotten a small taste of what it's like to share the limelight, I imagine he will not be telling us he wants a little brother again anytime soon. ;)

Last week Victor's class went on its first field trip, to the zoo -- I had to work that day, but I probably wouldn't have been able to go anyway, because they had so many parents volunteering to be chaperones, they even had to turn some away.

Next week his class is going to the Boston Public Garden to ride the Swan Boats, along with their "Fifth Grade Buddies" -- at the beginning of the year, each kindergartener is paired with a 5th-grader, who acts as their buddy for the year -- they get together in pairs to do projects and other activities twice a month. It's a really nice way of getting the big and little kids together.

School isn't out here until June 19. But between now and then, they have the trip to the Public Garden; Field Day; a party at the town beach; and a book fair. Plus, Victor's class is going to be celebrating all the "summer birthdays" during the next two weeks.

Speaking of birthdays, I'm going to have Victor's party on June 21, right after school lets out -- I think if I wait until July, too many people will be away. I rented gym space from the town Rec. Dept, and a Rec. Dept. employee to run games and stuff for two hours. The "theme" will be Star Wars.

This weekend we have soccer and a playdate on Saturday; our last morning of Hebrew School, and then 2 birthday parties back-to-back on Sunday. The next weekend we also have 2 birthday parties -- does it seem like a lot of kids have June/July birthdays? I remember at the day-care, there were six kids who had birthdays during the last week of June-first week of July.

Have a good weekend, everyone!

Helene

[MrsReber]

Hi everyone!

Yes, we did go to the Strawberry festival. It was fun. There were a few kiddie rides. Casey and Brenden went on the swings a bunch of times. It was expensive for those rides, but we gave ourselves a dollar limit. When we ran out of money, we went home. We bought the ride tickets, lunch, strawberry ice cream and strawberries, of course. They were expensive berries, but worth every penny! Oh and they had a Usborn book display there. Of course, my kids were the only ones picking out books. Casey led me over to the woman once she saw there were books!!

I have to run to the chiro- one quick story. On Saturday, after we got back, DH and I were relaxing on the couch. The kids were running around. Apparently there was a disagreement over something and Brenden threw something at Casey, giving her a black eye!! It's finally starting to look better. I hated to send her to school that way. DH and I talked to Brenden all weekend about his behavior and how Casey could get seriously injured. Kim, I told them about Lainey's experience and having to get stitches. Casey looked at me and said "Don't give him any ideas!!!" I had to laugh.

In any event, I'm going to enroll Brenden in a martial arts program that teaches self-discipline, among other things. Had a long chat with the teacher of his age group last night and we're going to try out a class tomorrow. She insisted before I pay that we take a free trial class.

I have to run- more later!

[LaraW]

Next week his class is going to the Boston Public Garden to ride the Swan Boats, along with their "Fifth Grade Buddies" -- at the beginning of the year, each kindergartener is paired with a 5th-grader, who acts as their buddy for the year -- they get together in pairs to do projects and other activities twice a month. It's a really nice way of getting the big and little kids together.


Helene, have you ever read the book "Make Way for Ducklings" by Robert McCloskey? It takes place in the Boston Public Garden and it has the swan boats that the ducks try to talk to but since it doesn't answer back, they decide the swan is rude. :) I think it was written in the 1940's and I remember reading it when I was a kid. Then, several years ago while I was pg with Natalie, I was driving home from work and there was a story on NPR that he had died.

Anyway, I am sure you know the book but in case you didn't you might check it out if you think of it sometime.

By the way, I started a new book last night called "Humble Pie: Musings on what lies beneath the crust". It is really good, and some of you from New Jersey might appreciate it. It is about a woman who grew up in NJ in the 1950's and her family had 4 apple trees in their backyard, and her mother's goal was to have 100 pies in the freezer by the end of the summer.

[hrk]

Helene-
Glad you had a nice visit. That is interesting about Victor and the babies. Logan is the exact same way when Ari is getting a ton of attention. We often have to discuss with Logan why things Ari does at 2 are considered cute but at 5 they are not OK. It can be very hard for him sometimes, cause he was the cute kid before Ari and he seems to remember that.

Susan- Glad to hear the festival was fun and I am sure the strawberries were amazing. We used to have a local farm around the corner from us in California and the strawberries they would sell were out of this world. You had to get there by 9 in the morning though or they sold out for the day. Sorry to hear about Casey's eye. Ari is at that age where he is tall enough to walk into things that are just above his eye level and I hate sending him to school when he has done things to his eyes.

Well I just bought tickets to a summer event called the Disney Music Block Party. It is a musical concert by Dan Zanes, They Might Be Giants, Choo Soul and other playhouse disney singers. It sounds like a lot of fun and the kids should love it.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
Heather

[HRJ]

Lara, yes, "Make Way for Ducklings" is sort of required reading around here -- especially during the spring and summer, it usually ends up on the weekly "Best-Selling Fiction" list of the Boston Globe. But I have to admit I'd forgotten the detail about the ducks thinking the swan boats were rude! There is even a sculpture in the Public Garden of Mrs. Mallard and her ducklings, which is a big favorite for kids. Every year in early spring, they have a "Duckling Parade" where kids come dressed as ducklings and march around the PG -- we've never been able to make it for the parade, and now Victor is probably too old to want to do it, but I've heard it's very cute.

If you liked "Make Way for Ducklings," I'd also recommend Robert McCloskey's "Blueberries for Sal," which takes place in Maine and is a very, very sweet story. (DH and I joke that there must be a law in the state of Maine mandating that all book and gift shops must prominently display "Blueberries for Sal." ) And "One Morning in Maine," which is about a little girl who loses her first tooth, and is great to read at that point when the first loose tooth is hanging by a thread. I also love "Time of Wonder," but Victor never took to it as much -- it's very heavy on description, and not so much on action.

That pie book -- is that for kids, or adults?


Susan, the strawberry festival sounds great -- I can't wait until we start getting fresh strawberries around here. Last year we went to a strawberry festival when we were up in Maine -- it wasn't as big as the one that you're describing, but the pie and ice cream were incredible!

Heather, that concert sounds like it will be a lot of fun -- I really like Dan Zanes and TMBG -- I'm not familiar with the other musician you mentioned. Victor has a CD that's a compilation of folk music-style songs for kids, and Dan Zanes and TMBG are both on it -- for months, Victor insisted on playing the CD when he went to sleep.

H.

[LaraW]

THe pie book is for adults. I can tell it is going to be a quick read.

[hrk]

My mom used to teach Make Way for Ducklings to her third graders and when we went to Boston while I was in college, she was so excited to see the statue to the Ducks. We have a ton of pictures of those statues.

Helene- Choo Choo Soul is a short that they do on the Disney channel with a musical train and a woman named Gennavive? singing. She actually has a great voice and both my boys love the songs they do.

Here is a link to the Disney festival:
http://disneymusicblockpartytour.com
It looks like it is mostly east coast and midwest tour stops right now, but it looks like Disney is going to do it just like an adult Music Festival with multiple stages and acts on at different times and then extra activities. Tickets are all general admission and kids 2 and under are free, so check it out if anyone is interested.

Heather

[LaraW]

Hey, guys - I could use a little help if you have a few minutes.

Can you tell me what you do when your kids blatantly disregard your "standing" house rules? Just the rules that they know and should be able to follow? I'm struggling with this right now.

We have several standing rules about running in the house and playing in the bathroom, specifically. There are a few more but these are the ones I'm dealing with today. Since probably 6:30 this AM, DH or I have been on both kids about doing these things just about constantly.

We went to the park where Natalie was having trouble listening and following directions about not stripping leaves off a low-hanging tree branch. We were at the park for a long time - probably 90 minutes +. I wanted to get Colin worn out for his nap.

Anyway, we come home from the park and its time to get lunch ready. I asked them to pick up and put away a small pile of toys that was in the middle of the living room. Well, instead of doing that, they proceeded to dump more toys out of the toybox and also empty a box of kleenex and a roll of toilet paper from the bathroom.

I'm struggling with what to do. I have already gone through with a laundry basket and picked up all the toys on the floor and I guess they can earn them back through good behavior - but its a large laundry basket that is overflowing. It will take a while of VERY good behavior to earn it back. (maybe this is their way of telling me that they have too many toys ;) )

But, I'm struggling with how to handle the bigger situation of ignoring the standing house rules. I already told Natalie that DH and I would have to do something but I didn't know what, we'd need to talk about it and we'd let her know.

Anyone have any thoughts? I guess one thing to remember is that Natalie is unfazed by most "losing privileges" - I think about the only thing that I can think of that I could take away that might make an impact would be going swimming, which we've been doing most weekends the last few weeks. But, if we take that away and nobody goes, then its not that big of a consequence. You know? Thoughts??

[valchemist]

I am going to sneak this (potentially dumb) question in at the end of the now-defunct may thread to see if any of you seasoned moms has an opinon on this. I want a FUN inflatable pool toy for kate who will be 3 next month. I found this but it says it is for ages 6 and up. to me, it looks like she'd love it and it would work for her (she is big for her age). but 6 is a long way from 3! can anyone talk me out of this or tell me why this might not work for a 3 year old. I don't have much experience with big inflatables. the description on this says it is virtually non-sinkable.

I know julia (age 6) will love it, but it is supposed to be for KATE'S bday.

here is the full description:

JOLLY ROGER BOAT
By Sevylor®

Ruler of the seven seas/the hit of the pool party.

Your little scoundrel will love being the terror of the high seas, armed with enough artillery to rule the pool. Made of heavy-duty PVC with electronically welded seams and a low center of gravity, this ship is nearly unsinkable. A catapult launches 2 inflatable cannon balls, and a water cannon draws an endless supply of H2O firepower from the pool. Hasty retreat? Foot holes in the floor mean you can kick away to safety. Mast and sail are removable for added room.

Up to 135 lbs. Inflates in minutes to 60"L x 25"W x 36"H with Instant Air Pump (sold separately).

http://www.sensationalbeginnings.com/zooms/9443-1.jpg

http://dsp.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p1850570p275w.jpg

[hrk]

Val-
The only thing I can think of is that most children are able to swim at age 6, so if a child fell out of the boat they could still swim. But that is the only reasoning I could see behind the age. It looks like lots of fun.
Heather

[MrsReber]

Val, I think it'd be okay under close supervision. Of course, if your kids are anything like mine, the older one will point out to the younger one how it's for older kids....and then the pirate battle would begin.

But really, Brenden was in some floating toys when he was younger. He was afraid of pools (still is a little afraid) so it was the only way to go with him. We never had our own, but used some at friends' pools. I was always in the water with him. He's on the tall side, but very thin so he certainly fit in the toys.

[RunnerKim]

Val - Seeing the description part about "foot holes" and kicking away to safety - I'd guess there's an issue with IF it capsizes and traps the child underneath (vs. say a small parts that could be consumed by a younger child or something). As long as you were planning to always provide close by adult supervision with it - i.e, even if Kate had on a life jacket she could potentially get stuck on the underside or something. I couldn't imagine not being close by/in the pool with a 3 year old no matter what device they had so I wouldn't see why Kate couldn't use it.

Lara - Remind me how old Natalie is? I'll share what I've found to work okay with my kids, but I think every kid has their own "currency." (i.e., I've found that sitting the stairs in timeout wasn't that effective for Jamie - he needed more isolation and putting him in his room worked much better.) And I guess I should say these techniques work fairly well for the types of things you're describing but Jamie still has a "physicalness" issue that I think maturity is going to have to help us out on.

I think you might need to think shorter term consequences. The loss of going swimming if it's not the next thing you're about to do might be too far in the future. Lainey could get that she's lost swimming outing for some time in the next couple of days but I don't think it would really be that effective of a consequence. It's much more likely to cause on issue on that future day/time when she hadn't actually done anything wrong (hopefully!). Jamie would never get the connection and I'd have to make a big deal about how we're not going swimming (a day later or even hours later) because he did X. And that just feels like harping and bring up past wrongs etc.

I try pretty hard to come up with immediate consequences (I think that could be my dog training background ;) ). With the toy issues - I don't let them eat lunch/dinner until it's done or whatever the next activity is. I have an issue in that Lainey will often do her part but then Jamie will un-do it or make the bigger mess so will have to specify what each has to do or supervise it to make sure Jamie's not interfering. Taking away toys that they won't put away has never been effective (or I should say has not YET been effective) for my kids. At the moment they generally really aren't that interested in the toy(s) and anticipating wanting to play with them in the future isn't really that big a deal to them. If Jamie is using something inappropriately (and occasionally Lainey) then taking that away is effective. It often goes in timeout for say 3 minutes and then I give it back - I see that as a learning moment where he's getting the opportunity to learn how to use it (and how not).

Who cleaned up the kleenex and toilet paper? I would have made them do it and they couldn't do or get X until it happened. I have been known to all of sudden have something fun on the agenda in those situations too ;)

I've also given them the option of cleaning something up or being in their room (generally until they're ready to clean it up).

Helene - that is interesting about him not liking having the babies around! Hope it does help with the sibling issue! Maybe you could tell him the same would be true of a dog ;) Sounds like there's a lot of fun outings planned for the end of the school year.

Susan - LOL about Casey's comment - she knows her brother well! Glad she "only" got a black eye.

I'm back from our trip to the in laws. It went really well. The flights were no problem - Lainey watched DVDs the entire time and wasn't an issue at all. Jamie did fine too. We certainly weren't disturbing other passengers any more than most kids and one family was using a portable DVD player without earphones! I couldn't see if there was more than one kid or what (but there are dual jack converters and the airline provided free headphones!).

The only bad flight issue was that our return flight was 7:30pm and we arrived around midnight. I had wanted to leave later in the day because it was the day after the wedding and I didn't know if there would a be a brunch or anything. I hadn't thought how tough it would be to handle 2 sleeping kids and our luggage. Fortunately Lainey was a trooper and woke up just enough to walk herself. I made sure to tell her how much I appreciated that the next day.

We had a great time while there. Went to a Cardinals game and Lainey understood so much more this time having played a season of t-ball. Chris and I got out to celebrate our anniversary - i have to say I enjoyed the kid-free shopping at Target almost as much as movie & dinner. :o:o They did just fine in the wedding. I'll post a picture as soon as I get to that point in my photo editing/processing (I took a zillion pictures).

I'd really wished we had our bikes (I tried to find a place to rent) because there were a bunch of great bike trails there that I hadn't really noticed before since we weren't biking so much. I was startled every time I saw a kid though because not a one was wearing a helmet. It's a law here in Oregon and pretty much all kids (and many adults) were them. The teenagers might not have them clipped. :rolleyes:

Kim

[valchemist]

I hate to bump the old thread to the top, but I wanted to thank you for your thoughts. yes, I think you are right it is probably a swimming/capsizing issue. but who leaves their 3 yo unattended anyway? we watch her like a hawk, of course. I think we will go for it.