Fee for store bags

[sunnyshine]

I posted this in the swap message but I think this idea warrants a thread of its own. What are your opinions on Seattle's new fee for using grocery store's bags?



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/372566_bags29.html

[KristiB]

I use reusable bags for all my grocery shopping. A friend at work brings me all her plastic grocery bags which get used for the cat box. So I figure that cuts down my usage.

But if she didn't and the stores started charging I'd probably buy rolls of bags for the litter box so the end result would be the same.

If I didn't have a cat I probably wouldn't use plastic grocery bags at all.

[Laurielee]

I agree, quote below is from CL web article on the bag swap. San Francisco banned them and Los Angeles ban starts in 2010.


More than 380 billion plastic bags are used each year, less than one percent of which are recycled. The other 99 percent take about 1,000 years to decompose. (If Christopher Columbus had brought some grocery bags with him in 1492, they'd be only halfway back to the earth by now.)


I was Ireland a few years ago and have had the bag ban in place for a awhile. No plastic bags anywhere in the landscape. I think they also had severe littering fines

[ADM]

What a boon to the environment! Getting rid of, or using less, plastic bags and foam containers, is better for wildlife, city sanitation (think tax $), etc. because it causes less littering.

It takes a tree to make paper and plastic bags haven't always been bioidegradable. The choice has been a tree, or 1000 years in the landfill. ??

"Seattle Public Utilities estimates that 360 MILLION disposable bags are used in the city every year. The fee, which could add a couple of dollars to the weekly grocery bill, is expected to cut that number in half."

[generic]

I live north of Seattle and didn't know about this. I'm glad to see they are taking some action. Ever since our CLBB bag swap, I've been using reusable bags exclusively. What I want to know is, why do I only get from 3 to 6 cents bag refund for each bag I use? The punishment for not using them (20 cents) is so much bigger than the reward for using them.

Anyway, this is a very good step, IMO. I'd heard about other cities banning them, and wondered when we'd get some kind of change around here.

[ADM]

It just never occurred to me that in some places people were being rewarded per bag! Being environmentally conscious surely is reward in itself? :)

[Hammster]

Are they only charging for the bag that gets filled at the checkout counter or does the charge for plastic also include bags where we put our produce/meat in?
I think trying to eliminate the bags at checkout is a good idea and a great first step. I imagine the number of plastic bags that are used to put produce or meat in far exceeds the number used at the checkout. I mean one checkout plastic bag could easily hold 5,6, or 7 bags with produce in them.

I know we've had the discussion about if meat should go into another bag just in case the meat packaging is not too leak proof so I'm not trying to start that debate again. I just wonder if the charge is for all plastic bags one might encounter in the store.

[stacy7272]

What a boon to the environment!
A boon to Hefty, Glad, etc. too! ;) I will have to buy something to put my trash in once the plastic bags are gone from Los Angeles. I mostly use reusable bags but I get just enough plastic and paper for my trash and recycling respectively.

[stefania4]

Clearly, it's an environmental move.

And to someone as cynical as me, it's also yet another way to pass yet another cost onto the customer. After getting customers to work for free by ringing up their own groceries, they now get customers to bring their own bags.

Don't get me wrong, I have (and use) my cloth shopping bags. It just seems like another cost-cutting measure dressed up as something else.

[Jewel]

Are they only charging for the bag that gets filled at the checkout counter or does the charge for plastic also include bags where we put our produce/meat in?



I don't believe they'd be charging for these... the produce bags are a #4 which are recyclable. My husband keeps one large produce bag on the coat hook next to the front door, and we fill that bag with more #4 bags. When we've got a full bag he drops them in the recycled bag container at the grocery store. :)

As for the ban itself, I'm all for it. I typically do re-use our plastic bags as trash bags, and I know others who use them for litterboxes, doggy poop bags, etc, so they DO get re-used frequently... but whether it's used once or used a dozen times, it ultimately does get dumped in a landfill where it refuses to decompose.

My only wish is that the 'credit' to use your own bags would be equal to the charge for using theirs. I get 5 cents for using mine, but would be charged 20 cents for using theirs!

[gertdog]

Our county recycling program requires that paper recyclables be placed in brown paper bags- no other container is acceptable. Right now, every 4th or 5th grocery store trip I request a few paper bags instead of using my reusable bags- how ridiculous is it that I have to get paper bags solely for the purpose of recycling them?? In any case, I'd be ticked if I was required to use paper bags *and* had to pay extra for them at the store.

But otherwise, I think it's a great move. We do re-use the plastic grocery bags on the occasions we get them, but we'd certainly find it easy to adapt to a bag-free life.

[swedish cook]

I'm all for paying per bag in the store - be it paper or plastic. Problem is you don't sack your own groceries here so you have no control over how many are being used. I guess I'm brainwashed from Scandinavia and actually did react when IKEA charged me for bags in the food section. See how quickly we forget.
Our area has started with recycling bins for paper, glass and plastic containers. We have specifically been told NOT to include plastic grocery bags as they stop up the sorting machines.
I try recycling the plastic bags/bring to grocery stores' collection bins but there is room for much improvement on my part. Worst of all I pick up pooch calling cards with the bags when I should be using biodegradable bags. Shame on me!

[generic]

It just never occurred to me that in some places people were being rewarded per bag! Being environmentally conscious surely is reward in itself? :)It's not really a "reward." I think the stores just give us credit for what a plastic bag would cost them if we didn't bring our own. A lot of times if the cashier forgets to give me the refund, I don't say anything. It's no big deal, because I really am doing it for other reasons. It's just that 20 cents seems excessive. Is it a "sin tax," and if so, where will that money go?

[swedish cook]

My internet connection was broken before I could add this link about biodegradable poop bags (http://www.thedailygreen.com/going-green/tips/4503)

[Meganator]

... I mean one checkout plastic bag could easily hold 5,6, or 7 bags with produce in them.




Yeah, *could*...but the checkers at my store tend to put as few things as possible in each bag. I'm pretty sure the only bag I've ever had with 7 items is one I've bagged myself. :rolleyes: The reusable bags are really catching on here though. I only have a couple, and I have to do big shopping this week, so I was thinking of taking a cardboard box or two - like Costco.

[Miss Giggles]

They do it here too. Drives me nuts.

Actually I cashiered temporarily and you can't please anyone with those bags!

[swedish cook]

Yeah, *could*...but the checkers at my store tend to put as few things as possible in each bag. I'm pretty sure the only bag I've ever had with 7 items is one I've bagged myself. :rolleyes: The reusable bags are really catching on here though. I only have a couple, and I have to do big shopping this week, so I was thinking of taking a cardboard box or two - like Costco.

I keep a couple of collapsible crates in my car like these (http://www.containerstore.com/browse/Product.jhtml?searchId=15239971&itemIndex=1&CATID=71223&PRODID=60192).

[aggie94]

Don't get me wrong, I have (and use) my cloth shopping bags. It just seems like another cost-cutting measure dressed up as something else.

I don't particularly care about the motivation behind the ordinance, although I don't believe it's a dressed-up cost-cutting measure. But even if it were, if it brings about a positive change, I'm all for it. I am so tired of seeing all the waste of paper and plastic grocery bags. It is SO easy and inexpensive to reuse shopping bags; there is really is no good excuse not to do it.

[KValley]

I don't particularly care about the motivation behind the ordinance, although I don't believe it's a dressed-up cost-cutting measure. But even if it were, if it brings about a positive change, I'm all for it. I am so tired of seeing all the waste of paper and plastic grocery bags. It is SO easy and inexpensive to reuse shopping bags; there is really is no good excuse not to do it.

Ditto. Double ditto. Why does this need to be about anything other than reducing waste, pollution and making a statement about how we treat our environment? As the Seattle city council president notes in the article referenced here, no one has to pay this fee. This is the choice of the consumer. The environment has no choice; we consumers do. Is it drastic? Perhaps. We are beyond drastic in the need to repair the damage we have done. Is 20 cents a lot to ask? What price do we put on cleaning up our clogged waterways, our stuffed-to-capacity landfills, our degraded green space, on protecting wildlife, on reducing our dependence on oil/petroleum (used to manufacture plastic bags) or slowing deforestation (in the case of paper bags, which are at least recyclable)? Cost of bag at checkout: 20 cents. Savings to the enviroment: Priceless.

The hefty fee is certainly getting people's attention and it may be an amount that's meaningful enough to change people's behavior. In my mind that's what this mandate is all about- changing behavior. Incentives (like rebates) don't seem to be doing it. In this light, it's a piddling little step, really. But it's a step in the right direction.

I work at PCC Natural Markets, one of the stores referenced in this article. We offer bags made of recycled materials at cost (71 cents) but we couldn't care less where your reusable bags come from. For each reusable bag you bring we donate 2 1/2 cents to our food bank program and 2 1/2 cents to our Farmland Trust. You are welcome to the .05 bag rebate if you request it; in the 6 months I have worked for PCC, I've had 2 customers request the rebate.


It's just that 20 cents seems excessive. Is it a "sin tax," and if so, where will that money go? THe 20 cent fee being divided up and it's still not clear where the money is going. This is where I would like some concrete answers. I've heard .05 going back to the stores for administrative costs- which makes NO sense to me. Our stores will actually SAVE money as the paper sacks we offer, particularly the most popular kind with handles, are a money-loser for us. And the city will claim administrative costs as well, of course ($500,000 per annum for education/awareness campaign, providing free bags, assistance to elderly and low income and other admin costs- whatever those may be- city, please define..). Whatever net revenue is received I'd love to see it devoted to public transportation. God only knows we have desperate need for it here.

IMO in a couple of years the brouhaha this mandate causes will have blown over and we Seattleites will be patting ourselves on the back that "we" supported this mandate :cool: And many many other cities will have followed suit (and your local rag will have devoted pots of ink printing pro and con letters to the editor!). We will see a boom in biodegradable pet poop and kitchen/bathroom bags and we'll have our coat closets and car backseats stuffed full of our resuable bag collection. Your grocery stores will have banner or signs at the entrance saying "Did you remember your bags?" and some clever soul will have designed a chic reusable bag holder that you can mount in your car, in your closet or kitchen cabinet. Holiday Bazaars will be chock full of crocheted, knitted, batiked, tie-dyed, woven, stamped and embroidered bags and the phrase "paper or plastic?" will appear as a Remember When pop culture trivia question in some version of Trivial Pursuit in 2020. Or so I hope.

[boisewinesnob]

I remember saying about 14 years ago that there would come a day when stores would charge for using bags. I worked in grocery from 1990-2000, and I knew it was coming way back then.
I am back in grocery again (hi Julie!) btw, and notice that tons of people bring their own bags.

[colleency]

Love it! I talked to an Ikea cashier a couple of months after they started charging, and he said they cut back on bags by 75%.

[generic]

IMO in a couple of years the brouhaha this mandate causes will have blown over and we Seattleites will be patting ourselves on the back that "we" supported this mandate :cool: And many many other cities will have followed suit (and your local rag will have devoted pots of ink printing pro and con letters to the editor!). We will see a boom in biodegradable pet poop and kitchen/bathroom bags and we'll have our coat closets and car backseats stuffed full of our resuable bag collection. Your grocery stores will have banner or signs at the entrance saying "Did you remember your bags?" and some clever soul will have designed a chic reusable bag holder that you can mount in your car, in your closet or kitchen cabinet. Holiday Bazaars will be chock full of crocheted, knitted, batiked, tie-dyed, woven, stamped and embroidered bags and the phrase "paper or plastic?" will appear as a Remember When pop culture trivia question in some version of Trivial Pursuit in 2020. Or so I hope.LOL, Julie! You've about nailed it on all fronts. :p Ah, life in modern America.
Amen on the public transportation. It's a shame Seattle didn't get it together and put in a light rail long ago like Portland did.

Colleen, I'm glad to hear they were able to reduce by such a large margin! That's so encouraging.

[sunnyshine]

THe 20 cent fee being divided up and it's still not clear where the money is going. This is where I would like some concrete answers. I've heard .05 going back to the stores for administrative costs- which makes NO sense to me. Our stores will actually SAVE money as the paper sacks we offer, particularly the most popular kind with handles, are a money-loser for us. And the city will claim administrative costs as well, of course ($500,000 per annum for education/awareness campaign, providing free bags, assistance to elderly and low income and other admin costs- whatever those may be- city, please define..). Whatever net revenue is received I'd love to see it devoted to public transportation. God only knows we have desperate need for it here.

In agreement with you 100%. What I heard is that smaller stores get to keep all .20 cents while the larger stores get .15 cents. I wish they would use the money for environmental good such as improving public transportation!

[Hammster]

The article that Sunnyshine linked to has this about where the fees are going.


The 20-cent-per-bag "green fee" is expected to raise about $3.5 million each year. Seattle Public Utilities needs about $500,000 to run the program. The remainder will be used to offset expected increases in the city's solid-waste rates.

[KValley]

The article that Sunnyshine linked to has this about where the fees are going.


The 20-cent-per-bag "green fee" is expected to raise about $3.5 million each year. Seattle Public Utilities needs about $500,000 to run the program. The remainder will be used to offset expected increases in the city's solid-waste rates.

Hammster, I did read this but it doesn't tell me much (and I'd probably learn more by researching further, but at the moment the net revenue seems to be a moving target). I would like to know what will cost the SPU $500K and why the city's solid-waste rates will increase. IMO it really behooves cities like San Francisco, LA and Seattle that are spearheading these efforts to do it "right"- I am certain municipalities around the country are watching how these cities administer the programs and if it works well, will follow suit. If it flops, they'll delay their own efforts.

And yesterday, while on the sweet little idyll of Bainbridge Island, I saw this banner hanging over the front of the Town and Country grocery store: Did You Remember Your Bags :D