Religulous?

[JKG]

I went to see this movie tonight. Just wondering if any of you saw it and what you thought. I do believe in God, but it did ask a lot of interesting questions. I certainly walked away thinking about things.

[leightx]

I haven't seen it yet, but I plan to. I might be waiting for the DVD though - it's in pretty limited release around here.

[Beth]

Neither that movie nor W are playing here. We'd have to drive 45 minutes to go see them. Which I might just do -- but I would have to go to 2 different theaters. Could make for a long day, and I can't do anything that bold until after marching season is over. Maybe Leigh and I can share the DVD and popcorn. :p

[KristiB]

I'm waiting for the DVD. :)

[SusanMac]

We will wait for DVD, but am definitely looking forward to it.

So, what did you think? You said it made you think. But, was it funny? Was it brilliant?

I'm really torn about Bill Maher. Sometimes he's hilarious, and sometimes he's just whiney or angry

[JKG]

I normally do not like Bill Maher very much, so my expectations going into this movie weren't very high. I thought he was going to be obnoxious and rude to everyone he met. And for some of it he was. He interviewed lots of different folks from Christians to Muslims to Mormons. At first I was a little put off and found myself questioning my religion a lot through out the movie. But then again, I question my religion quite frequently. Parts of it were very funny and there were a lot of things that make you go hhhmmmmmm... Of course he interviewed a lot of radicals from each religion. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone so it's hard to explain without giving anything away :)
It was just interesting to hear what people believe and what their reasons are for believing and also Bill's point of view and why he doesn't believe. He made a very good case in some parts of the movie IMHO. Did I walk away still believing in God? Yes. But I did find myself questioning some of the stories in the Bible and that was something I really didn't expect to happen. But I think it will help me sort out my own questions and set out to find some answers.

[GingerPow]

Not a huge fan of Bill Maher, but I'm a huge fan of God's.

Having said that, I am highly suspect of any religion. Man's take on the Universal Intelligence is usually arbitrary, selective and self-serving. I enjoy my own experiences with the Higher Power, and have never felt the need for an interpreter.

An author named Richard Dawkins wrote a fascinating book called "The God Delusion." He is a self-acknowledged atheist, wrote from an intellectual standpoint, and made many excellent points. One of the best being the bloodshed this world has endured in the name of religion, or one's particular diety.

I would see this movie because the subject matter is interesting, even though it's Bill Maher that's presenting it.

[jmarie]

Saw the trailers and have no desire to see this movie, by an admitted atheist.
I have no desire to be preached to or talked to by an atheist. I would rather talk to someone of my own persuasion, someone who believes basically what I do, I think that would be more productive and helpful to me. I guess I have already figured out my own answers.

BUT, having said that...each to his/her own. I have no problem with anyone telling me that they saw the movie or plan to see the movie. I just don't plan on it.

[ClaraB]

Saw the trailers and have no desire to see this movie, by an admitted atheist.
I have no desire to be preached to or talked to by an atheist. I would rather talk to someone of my own persuasion, someone who believes basically what I do, I think that would be more productive and helpful to me. I guess I have already figured out my own answers.

But don't you want to know how other people think, how they've arrived at their own beliefs? I'm not saying that you need to change your beliefs, but it seems to me that it's the lack of understanding of other viewpoints or ideologies that's at the root of much of the conflict and divisiveness in this world.

[KAnn]

I am a huge fan of Bill Maher and cannot wait to see the movie...I regard myself as deeply spiritual but I think very little of religion which is primarily superstition born out of man's need to explain the mysteries of life. btw, Marie, Maher does not regard himself as an atheist.

[Robyn1007]

But don't you want to know how other people think, how they've arrived at their own beliefs? I'm not saying that you need to change your beliefs, but it seems to me that it's the lack of understanding of other viewpoints or ideologies that's at the root of much of the conflict and divisiveness in this world.

Exactly. To consciously decide that I absolutely won't even listen to another's point of view either religiously, politically or socially is to exclude myself from a better understanding of the world. Someone of my own persuasion will not have a better understanding of another view than someone of that view. I am a much richer person for knowing about other persuasions and hearing about them from people of that persuasion.

To address the movie question, I honestly had not heard about it. I haven't been to a movie in so long that I doubt I'll see this one in the theater but it will be interesting to watch on DVD.

[jellyben]

I can't decide if I want to see this or not. I am not religious at all(but not an atheist) but I find Maher to be so obnoxious when he talks about the subject that I think the movie would make me nuts. I am all for open-minded discussion, and I really love to hear opposing points of view, but his dismissiveness and condescension irk me.

[blazedog]

Maher isn't one of the tribe -- he is an agnostic and not an atheist.

He's just hedging his bets as far as I'm concerned. :D

Bill Maher on religion -- offensive material for the non-rationalists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IcUumWzue4&feature=bz301

[Beth]

I will probably wait until this is out on video -- I don't want to see it badly enough to take the time to drive down and pay that much for the theater, but I do want to see it. I want to know what it and the talk about it are about and be able to converse intelligently. Even if it is obnoxious and offensive -- or it isn't.

[ClaraB]

Maher isn't one of the tribe -- he is an agnostic and not an atheist.

He's just hedging his bets as far as I'm concerned. :D

Hey, it worked for Pascal :cool:...

[leightx]

Hey, it worked for Pascal :cool:...

Or maybe not. :D First, you'd have to assume that the Christian God (one of just hundreds, maybe thousands, of religious gods throughout history) is the "correct" one. If Pascal is wrong, he's been praying to the wrong dude all along. Whoops! And then there's also the assumption that God will reward blind faith over questioning and reason. Or what if, gasp, God rewards atheists!

I just looooove to play devil's advocate. :D

[Kathy B]

I am all for open-minded discussion, and I really love to hear opposing points of view, but his dismissiveness and condescension irk me.

My thoughts exactly. I heard a review of the movie on NPR, and one of the reviewers said "...something to offend everyone!" Another reviewer on the same program questioned deeming it as a documentary, because it did not really delve into the questions or follow up on things the way a documentary usually does, and thought that Maher had an agenda in making the movie.

I may/may not watch it, but I wouldn't blame anyone for skipping it either. If something is important to me, I don't really find it entertaining for others to belittle it. Ask questions...of course! Disagree....fine! Make fun of it (or me for believing it)....offensive!

[blazedog]

Or maybe not. :D First, you'd have to assume that the Christian God (one of just hundreds, maybe thousands, of religious gods throughout history) is the "correct" on. If Pascal is wrong, he's been praying to the wrong dude all along. Whoops! And then there's also the assumption that God will reward blind faith over questioning and reason. Or what if, gasp, God rewards atheists!

I just looooove to play devil's advocate. :D

And there is the atheist's wager :p

"It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him."

along with the refutation of Pascal's Wager alluded to by Leigh

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html

[Beth]

I may/may not watch it, but I wouldn't blame anyone for skipping it either. If something is important to me, I don't really find it entertaining for others to belittle it. Ask questions...of course! Disagree....fine! Make fun of it (or me for believing it)....offensive!

I wouldn't blame anyone for not watching it, but I wouldn't blame anyone for watching it either. It doesn't mean you have to like it or not be offended by it, but that's a good reason not to pay theater prices for it and to watch it in your home where you can vocalize your feelings any way you desire. And turn it off adn walk away at any time. But I'd rather be offended and be able to talk about something knowledgeably than rely on someone else to tell nme what I should think or feel.

[ClaraB]

Or maybe not. :D First, you'd have to assume that the Christian God (one of just hundreds, maybe thousands, of religious gods throughout history) is the "correct" one. If Pascal is wrong, he's been praying to the wrong dude all along. Whoops! And then there's also the assumption that God will reward blind faith over questioning and reason. Or what if, gasp, God rewards atheists!

I just looooove to play devil's advocate. :DHey, no problem :) - I said it worked for Pascal, not necessarily for me ;).

[ClaraB]

And there is the atheist's wager :p

"It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him."

along with the refutation of Pascal's Wager alluded to by Leigh

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.htmlAh, but if you live your life as if there were a God, you should also be trying to make the world a better place, so wouldn't the outcome (from the world's POV) be the same? Although I do share the belief that a benevolent God will judge us on more than just our belief or unbelief in him.

[Kathy B]

I wouldn't blame anyone for not watching it, but I wouldn't blame anyone for watching it either.

I think that is what I said, just in the reverse order.

[Beth]

Not arguing Kathy -- just taking it a step further. Or that was my thinking anyway.

[jmarie]

But don't you want to know how other people think, how they've arrived at their own beliefs? I'm not saying that you need to change your beliefs, but it seems to me that it's the lack of understanding of other viewpoints or ideologies that's at the root of much of the conflict and divisiveness in this world.

No, my Christianity is a private issue between me and my God. I think that everyone must come to their own understanding. If someone has questions and they ask me, I will talk to them....But for someone of another faith, let's say... Morman's, Jehovah's Witnesses....whose beliefs vary from mine, I chose not to discuss because when it has happened in the past, it has turned argumentative just like the political issues. I have some friends who are Lutheran, some United Methodist, some Catholic, 1 Jewish (we just don't have many Jewish people here, but I was engaged to a Jewish guy at one point in my life) we have Mormans in the family, and one of my daughter's very good friends is a Jehovah's Witness.....and there are more, but I am tired of typing...my point is that we are not at war with one another, we don't even think about one another's faith. And I am just not interested in even learning about Buddism, Hinduism, Islam...eastern religions...(excuse me for any mispellings). I am not going to judge, engage or kill a person if I find that they go to a church that is so radically different than mine.

But thank you for asking.

[JKG]

"I am not going to judge, engage or kill a person if I find that they go to a church that is so radically different than mine. "

What? What does this mean? Are you saying that people of these "other religions" such as Buddists, etc would kill you if they find that you go to a church radically different from theirs? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just wondering what that comment meant?

and have you ever heard of the Christian crusaders? just saying

[blazedog]

I don't know what "discussing" religion entails.

I think someone's belief in any religion is irrational as it involves a suspension of disbelief and a leap of "faith" so I can't imagine discussing religion or the absence of religion in terms of proselytizing or in any way thinking that a certain belief is better than any other -- except in the obvious sense that one must in some way believe that one's belief system is the correct one -- or why else have that belief?

So I don't think religion is debatable (or discussable in any sense) -- actions motivated by religion are of course -- so I would make that "constitutional" difference.

However, knowledge of other religions is a completely different thing as how can one have knowledge of the world without knowledge of belief systems. I have no qualms about asking about rituals and beliefs just as I have no qualms about asking my Korean friend about her culture.

[KristiB]

I
However, knowledge of other religions is a completely different thing as how can one have knowledge of the world without knowledge of belief systems. I have no qualms about asking about rituals and beliefs just as I have no qualms about asking my Korean friend about her culture.

That's what I was going to say.

She's insular.

[Kathy B]

Not arguing Kathy -- just taking it a step further. Or that was my thinking anyway.

Oops! Sorry Beth. I think I misunderstood what you wrote, or at least what you meant......my bad!

[Beth]

No bad. Really (I'm sure you'd believe me, but the post wasn't long enough.) :p

[leightx]

Ah, but if you live your life as if there were a God, you should also be trying to make the world a better place, so wouldn't the outcome (from the world's POV) be the same? Although I do share the belief that a benevolent God will judge us on more than just our belief or unbelief in him.

(Clara - I know that this might be partly tongue-in-cheek, but I still have to respond! :p )

If you live your life as if there IS a God (and it turns out there isn't - the Atheist's Wager), it could definitely be argued that you have wasted a large portion of your time (going to church, praying, reading the Bible, etc) and money - so there is plenty to lose...

My own theory is that I live the best life I can, regardless of whether there is or isn't a God. I can no more force myself to believe in the Christian God, "just in case", as a devout Christian could suddenly become a Muslim, just in case. I'd have to pretend to believe, and certainly an all-knowing God would see through the B.S. ;)

[KAnn]

My own theory is that I live the best life I can, regardless of whether there is or isn't a God. I can no more force myself to believe in the Christian God, "just in case", as a devout Christian could suddenly become a Muslim, just in case. I'd have to pretend to believe, and certainly an all-knowing God would see through the B.S. ;)


Well said! :)

[ClaraB]

(Clara - I know that this might be partly tongue-in-cheek, but I still have to respond! :p )

If you live your life as if there IS a God (and it turns out there isn't - the Atheist's Wager), it could definitely be argued that you have wasted a large portion of your time (going to church, praying, reading the Bible, etc) and money - so there is plenty to lose... You're presuming that praying, reading the Bible, going to church are done to benefit God, but for me, they benefit ME - I receive a real sense of peace, understanding and wholeness from those actions. Even if God doesn't exist, how have I lost?


My own theory is that I live the best life I can, regardless of whether there is or isn't a God. I can no more force myself to believe in the Christian God, "just in case", as a devout Christian could suddenly become a Muslim, just in case. I'd have to pretend to believe, and certainly an all-knowing God would see through the B.S. ;)I have no problems with that - we all have to make our own peace with our belief or unbelief. And ITA that God sees through all our pretension - there's no point in pretending to believe :).

[Andrea_2]

You're presuming that praying, reading the Bible, going to church are done to benefit God, but for me, they benefit ME - I receive a real sense of peace, understanding and wholeness from those actions. Even if God doesn't exist, how have I lost?


I don't think everyone gets a personal benefit from it though. I know a lot of people who really have no desire to go to church, read the bible etc., but feel it is some sort of obligation, and that they have to do it or else they'll be punished in some way.

One of my biggest problems with religion is the whole belief part. I don't think people can necessarily choose what they believe in. No matter how much I'd like to believe in religion and that there is some kind of God out there, I just simply don't believe it. I don't think people can choose what they believe in deep down, so I don't see why God would design such a process when it isn't something we can control. That is just one of many reasons I don't believe in God.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I am very much looking forward to it. I really like Bill Maher, but I kind of disagree with his interpretation of the word "atheist". I heard him say that he doesn't describe himself as an atheist because he feels that it implies that he KNOWS there isn't a God, and he doesn't like how Christians claim to KNOW there IS a God. I understand his point in that he feels that none of us should claim to KNOW anything and should ask more questions, but to me the term atheist means someone who doesn't personally believe in God, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I hate how the term is seen as some kind of taboo, and that an atheist couldn't possibly be correct. I wish Maher would use the term, as I think it would help make our beliefs more acceptable, especially since there is plenty of scientific evidence to support them.

[SheRa]

i saw the movie and LOVED it. i thought it was highly entertaining, and he wasn't mean to people of other religions. i went into it expecting more of a mockumentary than a documentary.

i grew up in a super conservative christian home. i was told that it wasn't OK to ask questions about other religions, or question anything stated in mine. what good is something when you can't try to understand it fully, in the context of the world? asking about something else doesn't mean that you believe in it. how else can you compare it to decide for yourself what's right? i hate the attitude of just doing something because that's how you're told to do it.

i could go on and on about this forever...but the point i'm trying to get to is that all of this forcefulness made me WANT to seek out information on other religions, and i realized several years ago that i'm agnostic. i think that lots of religions have good points, and i won't believe or disbelieve something just because it's under the heading of a different religion.

i'm totally in agreement with bill maher's "i don't know" attitude.

[heavy hedonist]

Maher isn't one of the tribe -- he is an agnostic and not an atheist.

He's just hedging his bets as far as I'm concerned. :D

Bill Maher on religion -- offensive material for the non-rationalists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IcUumWzue4&feature=bz301

I'm with you, blazedog. But I'll probably see it as I enjoy Maher's work generally.