East Coast or West Coast

[kirkbyky]

My husband and I currently live in MI, and I've been here the majority of my life (so has he). He's got 1 yr left in grad schl & then ??????. I love my state, its beautiful; lakes, forest, winter, summer, spring & fall; but am ready for a change. For some reason, I REALLY want to live nearer an ocean, and I am tired of living in the city. Country or small town for me. My DH has (finally) caught my 'wanderbug' and we want to start preparing NOW! considering we have a house to sell, all our family's here, etc.

I mostly want info on Maine area & NW (Oregon, Washington) and Canada on either coast. I know there's alot of posters from these areas, so fill me in. Both places are Beautiful!! I really need to know things to do with standard of living, housing costs etc. I'm very concerned with how a state is run, ecologically, tax-wise, job-wise, education concerns, etc. I can't really find that too easily without knowing someone who lives there.

It's important to add that my husband and I organicly garden and need to be in a temperate enough zone to grow most/all are own food. I know that NW has zones 5-9 or so & Maine has 5-3, we want to be a minimum of zone 5.

So any help would be appreciated!

Kyle

'East or West, Home is Best!'

:D

[KValley]

Kyle,

I am a native Washingtonian; a few years spent in Corvallis, OR as a little girl, but my childhood home was on the Olympic Peninsula (western Washington State, just across the Strait of Juan de Fuca from Victoria, BC). I moved to central Washington in jr high. The 1990s were spent overseas, and in Colorado, Ohio and Illinois. DH (who is from SW Washington, near Portland, O) and I returned home last summer, after many years of longing to be back in our mountains! It is an amazing place.

I love Seattle, I love Portland- both vibrant, beautiful, dynamic cities. I think Portland has a sweetness, openness to it that Seattle used to have 20 years ago, before traffic and its own self-importance choked its off-the-beaten-path reputation. It seems rare to find a Seattle-ite who is actually a native of the state! Perhaps a positive result of the dot.com crash and losing Boeing Corporate will be that Seattle will return to its more down-to-earth being. For me, the traffic, the sprawl, and the cost of housing in the Puget Sound are the biggest drawbacks- they are all horrendous. If I could afford the housing and had a job nearby, so I wouldn't have to commute, I'd live in West Seattle, Fremont, or Ballard- funky, old, wonderful districts.

I think it's very important to differentiate western Washington and Oregon from central and eastern parts of these states. 3/4 of the population live in the western areas, around the hubs of Portland, Salem, Seattle, Tacoma; 2/3 or more of the land mass lies east of the Cascade Mountains. The climate, geography, economy are very, very different. Many people, including those who live in the western parts of these states, don't realize that most of their state is characterized by arid, desert-like, high alpine, or dry forest climes; the lush, wet, green, drizzle, and clouds are only found west of the Cascades.

I think I have the best of both worlds- I live at the base of the Cascades (eastern slope) 100 miles from Seattle- a straight shot on the freeway; a small university town- so there is always something happening in terms of music, theatre, sports, lecture series, etc, 9 inches of rain and 300 days of sunshine a year, I walk to town, no traffic, affordable housing (affordable is relative- housing in the Midwest is SOOOOO inexpensive!!), hiking, wine country next door. WIth Dad in Seattle and in-laws just outside of Portland, we're in a pretty darn good spot. Downsides are the limited job market, but I telecommute so could live anywhere, ocean is far (4 hours), and at the moment I am cursing the heat (mid 90s for a week). I couldn't live further east than where we are, however: too isolated for me, too dry, far from the mountains, Seattle, water. Spokane is a different story- now are you getting into the Rockies culture and climate and it is gorgeous. browneye is originally from there, so hopefully she will chime in.

There was a report last week about housing prices in the US- Washington State jumped up several places to be in the top 5 of the most expensive states in which to buy a house; however, the differences between housing costs in western WA and east of the Cascades were dramatic- a 200-400 percent range of difference.

You didn't mention what you or your DH will want regarding employment, but obviously the major economic centers are Portland, Seattle. My dad is a vocational counselor in Seattle- I can ask what the general outlook is in the area for your fields, feel free to send me a PM if you'd rather. I can also provide you with several websites for job searching in the NW.

You'd like to live in a smaller town- look north of Seattle (Snohomish, Skagit, Whatcom counties). I highly recommend Bellingham, about 90 miles north of Seattle. A big little city, university-town, it would fit your gardening needs, very near to Vancouver B.C. It was first on our list if we hadn't been able to return here, to Ellensburg.

Standard of living? No state income tax, property taxes are high. Ecology? The environment is a very important issue politically, culturally. There are constant, fierce battles between those who seek to protect the environment and those who make their living from the environment. WA state is the nation's leading producer of cherries, apples, lentils, hops;second in the nation in wine production; of course salmon and other fishing and logging are huge parts of our economy. This is our greatest asset and our greatest curse- the tremendous natural resources bring tourism, revenues from agriculture, and we also bear the necessary burden of having to protect them.

Education, like everywhere else, varies tremendously. Our property taxes pay much of the cost of education, so there are great inequities between wealthier and poorer districts. Overall, our teachers are paid better than many other states.

The quality of life is excellent- if you are into the out-of-doors, you will be in heaven. I get overwhelmed by all there is to do- mountains to hike, beaches to comb, parks to camp in- throughout the Northwest. I'm trying to remember why it was that we left- some crazy notion of seeing the rest of the world :)

WHat a happy conundrum you are in! I have camped and hiked in Maine and loved it- in many ways the spirit is the same as in the NW. Doesn't seem like you could go wrong!

oh- I just came back to add a plug for Corvallis and Eugene, O. Eva can certainly tell you about Eugene. Both are university towns, very mild (VERY rainy) climates, nestled in the Willamette Valley, snuggled up to the Coast Range. DH went to school in Eugene, but I think I'd choose Corvallis (perhaps for sentimental reasons). If DH had Oregon state teaching certification, boy-we'd be sorely tempted by Corvallis....

ANd JewelI'm so glad to have you in our midst- I hope you've said goodbye to CA forever!!

[funnybone]

Where you end up living will probably be determined by the job opportunites and offers you DH receives after finishing school.

However, there are some websites that help you determine the cost of living in other cities with a comparasin of your own, as well as home prices.

www.homefair.com (relocation info on cities)
www.homegain.com (check home prices, schools, etc.)
www.realtor.com


GOOD LUCK!

[Jewel]

I can't add much to Julie's post, except to say that in a nutshell, prices in the Seattle area are high, but what we have to offer is almost worth it. Everything is within reach: mountains, ocean, culture, small town, big city, lakes and boating, and moderate climate. I spent 30 years in the heat of the San Joaquin Valley in California, and have been in the NW for nearly 9 years now, and wouldn't go back for gobs 'o money. Sure, our traffic isn't the greatest, and it rains quite a bit in the winter, and you pay higher home costs and property taxes...but to look out one window and see Mt. Rainier, or take a walk and see Lake Washington, or drive a couple of hours and see the ocean... sigh. :D

[BosunsWife]

Jewel and KValley are so right. Washington is the most beautiful state in the world - I was born and raised there also and only moved because my DH (who I married when I was 30) is in the military. We will probably settle there someplace if DH can get a job (teaching school probably) when we finally get out of the military. For the most part all your other answers were answered by Jewel and KValley. My dad gardens (although not organically) and has a wonderful growing season and pretty good sucess with his garden. My mom has always canned or frozen as much as she can out of it and also gets boxes of peaches and pears usually from Eastern Washington to put up also.

That said, I have also had the chance to visit Maine frequently (DH was born there ((Bangor)), has family there and his family has a fishing camp on a lake by Swanville, ME). I love to visit there in the summer, but as for living there in the winter - NOT! I'm not a real fond lover of snow and it is simply unavoidable there. It is so much like Washington in all other respects, but I simply could not stand the cold and often times harsh winters. DH and I had the opportunity to be stationed there (Coast Guard has tons of stations and ships there), but he always said he rather not be a$@ deep in snow for four to six months out of the year LOL!

Hope you make what decision is right for both you and your husband.

[slknight]

I don't have much time to answer right now because I have a work deadline, but just thought I'd put in my .02 for Maine. We are in the process of re-locating to southern Maine, and are closing on our house in two weeks. We're currently in the Boston area, and are escaping a high cost of living, traffic nightmares, etc. I work from home and my husband got a job in Portland.

Maine has a lot going for it. Portland is a vibrant city that is still a managable size. If you want a bigger city, it's only 2 hours to Boston. The cost of living is reasonable (we've found real estate to be about 1/2 the price of the Boston area). Sure the winters can be bad, but there are a lot of winter sports to do, and the summers are fabulous.

I'm not sure how many people on the boards live in Maine. (I think Mary? from the Healthy Living board). There are quite a few people from New Hampshire who might be able to provide you with some more information as well.

It might help to know what profession you and your DH are in. I know I'm kind of pushing Southern Maine, but if you get north of Portland, it becomes very rural, there are limited job opportunities, and your organic gardening choices will go down.

I can give you more information later.

Good luck!

-Susan

[kirkbyky]

KValley-What an awesome post! Thank you!
I was going to PM you, but there is a character limit?!?!
Bosunswife-A friend of mine used to live in Bangor, snowsnowsnow! I love it--for sledding/cocoa/cozy fire purposes, but shoveling and driving is another matter. That's why NW is more attractive to me.

I don't know wha DH will do after school, he feels that hee'll make his own job & is content to start out anywhere at first to get settled. He has several years experience in the 'business world', and a previous degree in Industrial & Environmental Health Mgmt.--lots of chemistry. He's moved away from that, toward more ecology based thinking. Right now he works for a community gardening program (this is separate from school, but helps with his degree), and may possibly follow that path elsewhere. I currently work in a library & have for several years-lots of experience. I originally asked about education for myself. I still need to finish my degree (a BS, funny how that sounds :D), probably in botany. At first, I wanted to teach (7th grade science), but would really like to be a school librarian, thus the need ofr info about k12 schools. All said, I know that DH & I will never be 'raking it in"and that's not a big deal to me, but standards of living don't always match up to housing costs, etc. and that's what i'm afraid of.
Living in a smaller college town is the BEST! I've always lived in or near enough to reap the benefits. The access to arts/recreation/culture, good dining and interesting activities is wonderful. There seems to be a decent job market available in those areas too, at least back here. I just miss waking up and hearing the spring peeper frogs.
Whew!! Thank you ALL so much for your info/advice. It feels strange to plan on picking up our roots and planting them elsewhere, almost sight unseen... Any additional advice is welcome--feel free to PM me if need be.

Also--Do any of you have a local paper that has a on-line edition? I think I will start reading those & that will give me lots of additional info & ideas.

Thanks Again.

Kyle

[aggie94]

I'll pipe in on Eugene and Oregon generally and ditto most of what Julie already said (even re Washington, because there are some big similarities). I really have grown to love Eugene. It's not a big city and definitely does not have the issues like traffic that Portland has, but it's big enough to have pretty much everything I need. (Eugene is about 140,000 people, and Springfield, which is just across the river but WAY too different to be considered a "sister" city, is another 50,000).

Like Julie mentioned, it's a college town, but not really in the sense that I had imagined. I went to college in a college town, College Station, Texas, where the university has 40,000+ students and the city has about the same number of residents. Comparatively, the U of Oregon is pretty small (15,000) and makes up a much smaller proportion of Eugene. Still, it adds a liberal feel to the city that makes Eugene very eclectic.

Housing costs are outrageous (in Eugene and Oregon generally, IMO), and the salaries in Eugene are abominable. Next to San Fran, Eugene has one of the nation's worst salary to cost of living ratios. I'll use my profession as an example. New attorneys working for large private firms in markets like Houston, Dallas, LA, Seattle, Chicago, etc. start at six-figure salaries. Portland is slowly catching up, but still only paying between 70-80,000 for starters. Eugene, whose housing costs are identical to that of Portland, is commanding only mid-50s. Eugene has also seen a recent string of BIG layoffs in the high-tech industry, so unemployment rates are going up. Professional positions are really hard to come by these days in Eugene.

Julie's right-on about the climate: it's mild year-round (average temp is 54), but rains alot. It rarely freezes or snows in the winter in the Willamette Valley, but there are great ski places only hours away. In the summer, it's rare that it gets so hot that you miss A/C, but this year has been an exception on both counts.

As for Oregon generally, I have some big beefs, but really, where can you live that you don't? I have serious issues with the state's initiative/referendum process. This was new to me when I moved here, because Texas does not have a citizens' initiative process. For the most part, I don't think the average voter is educated enough on political issues to take matters into their own hands. Every election, we have upwards of 30-40 ballot initiatives to be voted on. It takes me hours to go through the voters' pamphlet and stay up-to-speed on what the issues/positions are in order to make an informed vote. I have doubts that most people who vote do the same. IMO, that's why we elect a legislature. Also, Oregon voters have become less and less willing to support state programs and services, including education, through taxes, but are the first to scream when the "system" somehow fails them. I'm not sure Oregon is unusual in this sense, but it's one of my biggest complaints. Oh, and you can't pump your own gas. It's illegal. :)

That said, I still think it's a great place to live. Julie is right about the environment being important both politically and culturally, in Oregon as well as Washington. The NW has so many natural resources at its disposal, but use and overuse create very heated battles. Take the Klamath basin example just this summer. Because of an unusually dry winter and spring, water levels all around the NW have been low. The feds turned off irrigation waters to Klamath basin farmers to protect an endangered species (suckerfish?). Farmers and ranchers have been butting heads with law enforcement, the feds, and environmental organizations for months. It's one of those battles that really has no clear answers, and it happens more often than you'd think.

If you have specific questions, feel free to PM me, or ask them here. I haven't lived in Oregon all that long (5 years), but I've formed some pretty strong opinions in that time. :)

[Jewel]

Here's our paper... www.seattletimes.com

[aggie94]

Portland's newspaper is the Oregonian:

www.oregonian.com

Eugene's is the Register-Guard:

www.register-guard.com

[slknight]

Portland Maine's paper:

http://www.portland.com

Portland Maine info:

http://www.portlandmaine.com/

[lindrusso]

I can't offer any info on the particular areas you are looking at, but I can direct you to a couple of websites that might help in your search. The first site is a place where you can figure out how much you'd need to make in order to live at your current standard of living (but warning - I just noticed the site is loading verrrryyy sllooowwwlly today!). The other is a place where you can find out more info on housing in the area and schools, etc. If you do a search for "relocation", you will find other websites as well.

http://homefair.com/calc/salcalc.html?NETSCAPE_LIVEWIRE.src=brate

www.realtor.com

Hope this helps! I hope to be doing my own research in this area in the next year or so!

DUH! Sorry Funnybone - I totally missed your post about these very same sites!

[aggie94]

Julie mentioned that Washington has no state income tax, but that the property taxes were pretty high. Oregon has a substantial state income tax and high property taxes (that fund, among other things, education), but no sales tax. Personally, I'd opt for sales tax over state income tax anyday (which is how it is in Texas, where I grew up). Deductions for federal and state taxes make up almost 40% of my gross pay. Oregon is NOT likely to ever pass a sales tax, though. And the day they do is the day I pack up and move back to Texas. ;)

You also mentioned organic gardening. I'm not much of a gardener, but the house we moved into most recently (a rental) is owned by a woman who is a master gardener and who is very much into organic gardening and edible landscaping. We're still learning about how to maintain and upkeep the beautiful things she's done, but there certainly seems to be an abundance of potential for organic gardening in this area.

[KValley]

Washington Employment website (loads of regional links)

http://members.aol.com/gwattier/washjob.htm

Some books on relocating to the Puget Sound and others on finding employment in Seattle, Portland, Western Washington

http://members.aol.com/gwattier/jobbook.htm

Seattle Jobs

http://sea.hrdpt.com/

And, I am only putting this on here for a giggle- the on-line visitor's guideto Kittitas County, published by my hometown newspaper, Ellensburg's own Daily Record!!

http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/summer/index.html

[Jen]

Well, I guess someone should chime in for Canada! I love in Vancouver, B.C., and I can't imagine living anywhere else - I truly believe that it is the best city in the world to live in. It's largeish, but still has lots of areas with distinct character and small-town feel. The scenery is amazing, and if you're into outdoor stuff, you can't get much better - there is tons of hiking, skiing, mountain biking, etc. We have fabulous restaurants with every kind of cuisine imaginable, beautiful beaches, great shopping...I could go on and on! DH and I know that we could definitely make more money working in the States (and be able to afford a house), but we would never give up living here for any of that stuff - we are so blessed to live in a place such as this.

All that being said, Canadians are very over-taxed - especially here on the West Coast. We have recently had a change in our provincial government (after 10 years of fiscal mismanagement to the extreme), and the optimism is definitely returning. Our taxes (both personal and business) have recently been lowered and this government seems committed to cleaning up and getting rid of the red tape. However, we still pay higher taxes (income and sales tax) than in the States. You do have to keep in mind that we have Universal Health Care (you don't pay to go to the doctor, have surgery, etc. - although waiting lists can be long for some procedures). Our crime rate is much lower than in the States (strict gun laws are part of the reason for this). In Vancouver itself, housing prices are very high, but there are lots of suburbs with more reasonable prices that are fairly close to the city. You could check out http://www.realtylink.org/ to get a better idea of prices (keep in mind, they are Canadian dollars so you will get good value for your American money!). You can also get information on the city at http://www.discovervancouver.ca/; I also found some pretty good pictures at http://www.triumf.ca/vancouver_images/images.html. I don't know if you're one of those people planning to have a baby anytime soon, but in Canada we get 12 months off with our job guaranteed, at 55% of our pay (payed out by Employment Insurance) - many workplaces (schools may be included) will top up your pay to 75% or even 100%.

I know that moving to Canada is an unlikely option for many Americans, but this is an amazing country to live in - I am so proud to be Canadian! (Go Canada! :) ) (Have to throw in some patriotism there...not exactly what we Canucks are known for!).

Good luck, whatever you choose!

[kirkbyky]

Thanks again, to all who posted! The links provided are a good head-start for the decision making process. Tho' I have to say, when I saw the home prices in the Seattle Times, I almost passed out!:o But also found lots of jobs that would fit as well.
If you think of anything else, please let me know--especially those east coaster's out there!
As we narrow down the choices more specifically, we'll probably take a few trips (in the spring) to see what we see.

ThankYou, everyone!

Kyle

[Kristilyn1]

Don't forget to check out www.realtor.com! They have lots of links to other info like crime, home prices, etc.

Maine is quite lovely and I don't think you can go wrong there--the home prices are very low and it has low crime and Portland is one of the loveliest, most charming cities (IMHO) on the east coast. That said--it REALLY depends on what you need/want for work. Jobs in every field are simply not available--but if you are lucky to do something that is in demand--you will be sitting pretty.

NOW, I have to put in a plug for MY homestate--NH. No income tax, no sales tax. Beaches--well, there's only 13 miles of coastline--so you can be close but let's face it, there's not much ocean to go around.

We recently moved to RI and I think it deserves mention. While it is the smallest state--they don't call it the "Ocean State" for nothing. There are miles and miles of beaches and it has Providence for culture and "city" and many small charming towns. We've found ourselves quite happy here. I can see the ocean from my house (never would have thought THAT would be financially possible!) and I take my daily walks along delightful roads with more ocean views. Check out the Providence paper for more info:

www.projo.com

Some particular towns worth mentioning---Charlestown, Westerly, Wakefield, Narragansett, which are all in what is referred to as "South County". Recently written up in Money Magazine (I think it was that one) as a best kept secret for destinations. South County is nice because it is also close to Connecticut for employment options..........I think you should check it out! Good luck with whatever you decide.

Kristi

[BosunsWife]

Kristi, we moved from Rhode Island (Newport) this past fall. We loved living there and were obviously just a stone's throw from the ocean. DD was born there (Newport Hospital) and DH's parents live in Stonington, CT (just across the border from Westerly, RI). We lived there for two years and it was one of our favorite places to live so far in all of our travels. Our only drawback to living there permanently is the proximity to the inlaws and the colder climate in the winter. DH doesn't do well living that close to his parents and always tells me he did his time for bad winters by being raised there and by living in Alaska for six years (before he met me). He got a bad case of frostbite when he was stationed in Alaska and working on a buoy in the Gulf of AK and his hands have been very sensitive to cold ever since.

[kima]

Hey Jen- just had to agree with you about Vancouver- except the best city in the world to live in is Victoria !! I grew up in Vancouver and loved it. Sadly since Expo the traffic, crime (still very low by US standards) and house prices have made the city unappealing to me.
Victoria is a city of 300,000- we get half the rain Vancouver gets, traffic is not a problem and 10 mins. out of the city and you are in verdant green farm land. House prices are ridiculous- but if you are talking US dollars you can almost half the prices- then things are a bargain! Victoria is the capital of B.C. so most of the jobs that pay well are government related. That is a big problem here- I have heard high tech jobs are growing here but the employment scene is still pretty dismal.Because of the mild winters we are the senior capital of Canada- not bad except when you get stuck behind an 80 year old guy who just pulls out into traffic because he can't turn his neck. Everyone here has their old people driving story!!
Anyway, I don't imagine you are thinking of leaving the Us for Canada but do comr visit- you will be impressed. And like you Jen I am Canadian through and through- I would not live anywhere else. Our gun laws and health care system (faulted though it is) assure us a high standard of living and reflect values I cherish.
I will now gracefully step off my podium!:D

[Natasha]

Hi!

I'm more of a Central Canadian girl than an Eastern Canadian girl but since I have lived in Quebec I guess I'm qualified to comment briefly (as you specified Quebec and eastward for E. Canada).

I lived in Montreal and LOVED it. :) But I should mention that I wouldn't have liked living there if I didn't speak French. While there are lots of English-speakers in Montreal (both native speakers and francophones who speak it as a second language), the main language still is French. When I was there, I lived in a very French-speaking area, went to a French-language university, and had ONE school friend who was an anglophone. :p It IS a gorgeous city, no question about it, and a cultural and culinary treat. Elsewhere in Quebec, French is much more prevalent compared to English, especially as you go further and further away from the larger cities.

Alisa or Sue or anyone else care to comment about the Atlantic provinces? Or Luiza or Julie or anyone about Quebec?

Natasha