Are you childless by choice?

[lisas3575]

OK, I just turned 30 but DH is only 25 (yeah, yeah yeah...). We've never really wanted kids, but all my friends are in that pregnancy/new baby stage of their life and now I'm waffling. I still can't really see myself with kids, but I don't want to be 60 and have regrets, and my clock is ticking.

I'd like to hear from people about their choice to have kids or not, and what your experience has been!

[slknight]

There was a very interesting (and heated) discussion on this topic about a year ago, but I can't seem to find it when I search. Maybe it got lost when the bulletin board upgraded?

Edited to say that I found it!
http://www.cookinglight.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3794&highlight=planning

I'd be interested if anyone on the old thread has changed their minds.


-Susan

[SusanMac]

Yeah! I had been thinking of posting a similar message. Glad you started it, Lisa. From other messages I've seen, I think there are a lot of us on the BB.

Jewel -- you recently inspired me to check out the Childless by Choice website (with a fair warning of what to expect from their BB). Looks like the site has a lot of good info.

DH and I have chosen to be childfree mainly due to lifestyle. We like to travel, backpack, ski, move frequently, have evenings to ourselves, and do things on a whim, among other things. And, I honestly don't think I'd be a happy, sane, kind person if I had to wipe noses and do laundry 24x7 for 20 years. I keep saying, however, that I may wake up one day when I'm 40 and change my mind.

With that said....I love kids! One of the things that bothers me is childfree people who don't like children at all. (they give the rest of us a bad name!) I enjoy playing with our neighbors kids, and am determined to be Super Aunt. (part of why it's great is that it's temporary :-)

I'm in a similar spot with friends having kids right now, plus every once in a while either on TV or just around town I'm touched by certain parent/child relationships. I just remind myself that I desire the individual moments that are special, and, at least for us, those moments aren't worth giving up our lifestyle.

My concern is thinking of old age. Is there a way you can have grandchildren without having children?? That would be so cool!

Lisa -- I'd also recommend checking out your local library for books on the subject. There aren't a ton of them, but I've found them to be helpful just for thinking through issues, pros/cons, etc.

[SusanMac]

Ok, I just read the old thread (had to stop after pg 2). Wow! don't know what kind of can of worms was opened here.

Anyone got a good quinoa recipe?! (he, he)

[aggie94]

As I started reading SusanMac's post, I was thinking to myself, "I could have written this," but then got to the part about her loving kids. That's where we differ. DH & I have chosen not to have kids mostly because of the lifestyle that we want to maintain, like SusanMac. On top of that, I don't like children. I like some, at certain ages, but for the most part, my tolerance for children is extremely low. I love all our nephews and our niece (11 in all), but I'm also thankful that they're not mine.

People make a lot of sacrifices for their children. IMO, you have to be able to give up everything and become a completely selfless person for your kids. That's not something I'm willing to do. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I am selfish in a lot of respects -- my parents sacrificed SO MUCH for my brother and I, and as thankful as I am that there are people in this world who do it everyday (and do it well), I also recognize that I'm not one of them.

It's just assumed that everyone will marry and then have children, but I don't think that people realize that not everyone is meant to be a parent.

All that said, my biggest gripe about the decision I've made is how other people treat it. I am tired of people telling me that I will change my mind. I find it condescending and demeaning that people think I'm incapable of thorougly researching and considering an issue and then making a thoughtful and educated decision on it. And for some people (my DH), it's a truly difficult decision to not have children. To have people belittle it by saying, "Oh, just wait - you'll change your mind!" Or, "Yeah, right - I've heard that before!" is insensitive and offensive.

Ok, now I'm getting off my soapbox and going to read the thread that slknight posted.

Oh, and Lisa - there's a great book called "Families of Two" that profiles lots of couples that have chosen not to have children. I have it at home - I'll post the author tonight if you're interested.

[lisas3575]

You and I are a lot alike on this one, Aggie94. That's pretty much where we are, except maybe reversed (my husband is more strongly anti-kid than I am currently).

It helped me to analyze my feelings and realize I want a baby not children. Kinda like wanting a wedding without the marriage. I related to what SusanMac said about wanting just those special moments.

I'm off to check out that thread too...

[KValley]

I am really wrestling with this demon right now. DH and I are in our early (me) mid (him) 30s, married 9 years. We have been free spirits- moving frequently, dreams of living overseas again. We love our independence- financial and time-wise. Yet...

We DO love kids- when I think about having children I imagine the child in his youth, adolescence, teens- I think of hiking, 4-H, backpacking in Europe, sports, piano recitals, being a cool, hip, on the go family. I'm not all that enamored with having a BABY- I love babies, but it's a KID I want. Yet....

Do I want to give up our freedom, control over my body, our time, energy, infinite choices we have as a two-person, one dog family?

I had this exact conversation last week with a girlfriend of mine who has just given up pursuing conception drug therapy (she and her DH are in their late 30s/early 40s, recently married). She and her DH have also been exploring adoption, but aren't certain if that is the right choice. So she too has been on the web, looking at resources for CBC couples. SHe also recommended a book, which I have on my other computer. Probably the same as Eva's, but I'll look later tonight....

I am certain we will have a child (right now, one is my limit)- I have several role models (friends) who are still active and spontaneous with one or more kids, that I think we can make it work. I think...

Can we start a support group for the hopelessly ambivalent?? :)

[SusanT]

I like the book title Families of Two, because that's what I consider DH and I (and the cats) to be but it's amazing how many people don't recognize a couple as a family. Isn't having a baby often referred to as "starting a family"?

We once bought a family membership to our local zoo and got several messages from them asking how many children we have so they could put it on the membership card. I finally called them and explained that our family consists of two people and they seemed completely puzzled by why we would buy a membership!

We haven't decided definately not to have kids but we're leaning towards not. Even if we don't, DH is my family!

Whatever choice people make on having kids, that decision should be respected.

[KValley]

Originally posted by lisas3575
It helped me to analyze my feelings and realize I want a baby not children. Kinda like wanting a wedding without the marriage. I related to what SusanMac said about wanting just those special moments.


Lisa, I read your post after I sent mine through- I just had to laugh. Maybe you and I could work something out, seeing as you want the BABY, I want the CHILD!!

And Susan, I really appreciated what you said- are those "Hallmark" moments just that, or is there really something stronger speaking to me... where's my journal- off to a cafe to write this out a bit...

[Gail]

Originally posted by aggie94
...it's a truly difficult decision to not have children. To have people belittle it by saying, "Oh, just wait - you'll change your mind!" Or, "Yeah, right - I've heard that before!" is insensitive and offensive.



It seems to be an unfortunate human foible which allows The Voice of Experience to override The Voice of Reason. What you're referring to is what I've always referred to as the "wait untils," a syndrome which also befalls those of us who have children. Over the years I have had countless painful forewarnings from well-meaning individuals who feel it their duty to rain on my parade with helpful little gems such as "just wait until he starts teething," "just wait until he starts to crawl," "just wait until he starts to walk," "just wait until he hits two," on and on and on-- as if these "wait untils" are as certain as the sun coming up in the morning.

So yeah, it's insensitive; yeah it's offensive; and yeah, I wish they would cut it out and just let us live our lives, too...

[Jewel]

I always thought there was something wrong with me when I was a kid, because I didn't like to babysit like my friends, and I didn't find everything children said 'cute'. I found myself getting somewhat irritated at restaurants when kids were screaming or running around uncontrolled, and I grew to literally despise 'family' events like County Fairs where I would be assaulted by strollers and breastfeeding Moms on each bench. I began to really doubt something in myself, thinking that because I didn't have a maternal urge, I was less of a woman.

I finally came to realize a few years ago that I DO have a maternal urge, it's just not directed at children! I love my pets, I love my family and friends, and my husband is the most important thing in my life. I am a nurturer by nature, but I don't have to nurture children to be one! I can be a better friend, better daughter and better partner to my husband because I am happy. In that respect, I am also nurturing myself.

Because I am an only child, I knew that if I decided to remain childless, I would also be shooting down my parent's only shot at becoming grandparents. I confessed this worry to them one afternoon about 5 years ago...and I was amazed at their response. They both told me that they only wanted me to have children if I wanted children...that having kids just to provide them with grandkids was the wrong reasons. Sure, they were a bit disappointed, but my father also said that if he wanted to take a 7 year old to the ball game he'd go sign up as a Foster Grandparent. Their reaction made my decision even easier to live with. When I met my husband, I was blessed to find a man who shares my belief. I am 39, he is 41, and we are perfectly content with our family of four, counting the pups.

I think what bothers me the most, however, is that most people do not consciously think about making these decisions before having kids. Our society and heritage is set up that we meet, we marry, we have kids, we buy a minivan, we move to the suburbs, and we start saving for their college educations. I think a good percentage of parents out there only had kids because that was what they were 'supposed' to do, and didn't stop to think about it until they had two under the age of 5 and one on the way, that maybe they weren't cut out to be parents. God help the children in those families. It is a very hard thing to do, to put a mirror in front of your face and realize that you wouldn't be a really good parent. I'm proud of myself for making that decision, and for having the courage to admit it.

Children are too important to be raised halfheartedly. If I can't give my all, I shouldn't be doing it....and that's why I'm childless.

[lisas3575]

Originally posted by KValley
Lisa, I read your post after I sent mine through- I just had to laugh. Maybe you and I could work something out, seeing as you want the BABY, I want the CHILD!!

Tee hee! I laughed too! Like I said over in the pet owners thread, I think you and I are meant to be fast friends... :D

[lisas3575]

A post over in the older thread on this topic reminded me of what one of my girlfriends says when someone inquires about her having kids... she simply says "Oh, I can't have children. Because I hate them." LOL! You should see the looks she gets. It's hilarious.

[JaneK]

Jewel, your post could have been written by me! That is exactly how I feel. I am 39 and my husband is 40. We decided many years ago that we didn't want kids and I get to give all my nurturing to our 4 stray dogs.

For a long time I, too, started to wonder if there was something wrong with me, perhaps I was missing a chromosome or something. I didn't enjoy being around kids and I especially didn't feel "maternal" when holding someone's newborn or baby.

Finally I realized, also, that a lot of people simply had kids because it was the thing to do. I discovered that it was perfectly acceptable to make the decision not to.

Besides, who would take care of all the pups?

[Jewel]

One other thing...because I'm still a newlywed (almost two years) I have a great many extended family members and friendly acquaintances that consistently tell me "You will regret this decision to not have children".

Funny, but they think nothing of saying that to me, when I could NEVER walk up to a lady at the supermarket with three children and say "You know, you're going to regret having those children..."

Shows what's acceptable in our society and what isn't, huh?

[SusanT]

I think there's just a rude question for each stage of your life.

When you're not dating - it's "when are you going to find someone? ("Why do you have to be so picky?" is a follow-up question)"

When you're dating - it's "when are you going to get married?"

When you get married - it's "when are you going to have a baby?"

If you do have a baby - it's "when are you going to have another?"

If you don't have kids - it's "Why are you being so selfish?"

It's seems people will always be nosy and awful about something no matter how hard you try not to give them any ammunition!

[DmOrtega]

Originally posted by SusanMac
... My concern is thinking of old age. Is there a way you can have grandchildren without having children?? That would be so cool! ...

Yes, you can. My foster parents came into my life when I was a teenager. They just took me in. No questions asked. They became my parents by proxy. They are the kind of people that talk to people and offer assistance. Others gravitate to them, including myself when I was younger. I am much older now and am very thankfull that now my children have grandparents that love them dearly.

[Gail]

As to the rude question issue, I dunno. I kind of think the "because I hate kids answer" might be pretty effective... :p

How I would love to see the facial expressions after that one!

[jazzcat]

Gail, LOL! I think it would be very effective and no one would ever ask that question of you again.

[aggie94]

Jewel -- I also could have written your post. Lots of friends have commented on what great parents we would be, because of how we care for our pets. Well, I don't feel the same way towards children that I feel towards animals. And the "it's different when it's your own" approach doesn't fly with me either. Is it ALWAYS? And what if it's NOT? Are YOU gonna raise him/her? I think it's difficult for people who want children to understand why someone wouldn't, or for someone who loves kids to understand how someone doesn't.

As for the harassing questions, I don't have an answer, other than to agree with Jewel that some things are socially acceptable and others are not. It's not like me to be rude to people who I know mean well, but I wish people would be more sensitive to people's private lives.

[SandyM]

I was childless back then (on the old thread), and believe it or not, still childless. The questions usually only came up, for some reason, in front of my mother. "When are you going to make her a grandmother again??" She stopped them short by saying "It's none of your **** business." Gotta love her.

We were never truly given grief about the decision. I went through periods of doubt in my late 20's, but they were short and fleeting. I'm almost 38 years old, and I believe personally, it was one of our best decisions.

We adore children. My two godchildren are 2 and 5 and they mean everything to me. I spoil them, I nurture them, I teach them - and then I go home. I have an 18 year old neice and a 15 year old nephew - they are fun in a different way.

Our dogs are our kids.

I respect people for having children - I think being a parent (especially a mom - no disrespect meant for fathers) is the hardest thing in the world. I tell my best friend (mother of my godchildren) that all the time. I see what she goes through, and others, and it constantly reminds me that motherhood was not, and is not, for me.

Pfftt.

[Jasmine-Rose]

Aggie and Jewel,

Your words could have come from my mouth! If I had a dollar for everytime someone told me I'd be a great mother... But what if that's not true??? This is one occupation that you'd better be good at!

It's funny - I have all the patience in the world with my pup (and that's saying something since she's a basenji), but I have no patience with children. For some reason people think that it's transferable. Not true at all, but they can't see that.

My parents always said they had children because they wanted to and they made the choice for themselves, and that I should make whatever choice was right for me. My brother (who has two beautiful daughters) once told me when I was single that I should have a child on my own. I told him that any children of mine would be miserable and that there was no way I'd do that to them! He laughed and never said another word. When I go to his place to see his girls we joke because after a couple of hours they all know that Auntie has had enough "children" time and will be leaving soon. But I could play with his two dogs for hours and hours - go figure!

As for regrets later, I haven't had any and I never heard my clock ticking. My heart goes out to those who hear the clock and are childless while desperately wanting children - I can't imagine the ache they feel everytime they see a baby.

I worked for the same company for 16 years and I had a reputation for skipping all the baby greeting parties and the photo fests, but bring in your dog and I'm there in a heartbeat! I can't explain it, but I've always been happy with my choice and I have no regrets at all.

One other thing - I've had people tell me that I'll regret it when I'm old and there's no one to take care of me. Well, that's a really bad reason to have children if you ask me. And I've seen lots of families where the parents never see or hear from their adult children. I hope they didn't raise the kids planning on a good return on that investment!!

Enough from me. But I'll be looking at that old thread later - sounds like it was heated...

[BosunsWife]

I wish that people that had children without thought or consequence would read some of your posts. There are way to many people out there that should never have had children and did it due to pressure or the thought that well everyone else does...

DH and I decided when we got married that we wouldn't have children and then started having second thoughts when we were towards our later 30's. DH just kept saying if you could just pop them out when they were already about 8 or 9 and not have to go through the poopy diaper stage it would be great. we even did family counseling before we made a final decision. We ended up having DD when we were 37 and he thinks she is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We traveled a lot before we had her and although she has limited what we do to a certain extent, we almost do more now that we have her. Before we would never have thought about going to the zoo and having a picnic or just going to the beach for an hour or so. In a way, its become more like it was when DH and I were dating - we didn't have a lot of money and did things like ride the ferry back and forth across from Seattle to Poulsbo area or just going for a walk in a park. Simple things that mean a lot but don't cost a lot. When she is a better age (school age), we will start traveling again and hope to show her all the wonderful things that we can.

Parenthood is not for everyone and my mom even says that her own mother should not have been a mother. Kind of glad she was though because then I wouldn't be here LOL! Its just too bad that some people don't realize it before they have kids.

It always used to bug me too when people would comment on why we didn't have a family (pre DD). I would always comment, "well, I thought that DH and I WERE a family". I think its especially hard when you are in the military since it seems like most military families reproduce like rabbits LOL! DH and I were always looked at like we were kind of an oddity not to mention that if you don't have children you are usually SOL when it comes to housing benefits. "What you want to live in Government housing - sorry, you don't have kids so you don't qualify" and until recently the money that they gave you to compensate for living expenses just wasn't real great. I'm just lucky that my parents and DH's parents weren't the pushy type. They never asked when although I'm sure that they would have loved to ask. My mom knew better than to bring the subject up.

[RobinC]

I was childless by choice then, and I am now. When it comes down to it, I do not feeling any maternal desire - my "clock" is not ticking. I also don't particularly like children. They are okay in small doses, like when they are happy and cute. When I hold my friends' babies/children, I don't feel any desire to have one of my own.

The previous childless by choice posters have pretty much covered anything I might say.

I am only 31. I have a few years to change my mind and still have children if that is what my darling BF and I decide to do.

[aggie94]

Families of Two: Interviews with Happily Married Couples Without Children by Choice is written by Laura Carroll. Here's what the blurb on the back says:

"Families of Two: Interviews with Happily Married Couples Without Children by Choice, takes us into the lives of the growing number of couples who are choosing not to have children, and dispels the myths commonly associated with this choice. Families of Two provides insight for couples who are deciding whether to have children, and to friends and family of couples who have chosen or may choose not to have children. It celebrates the many people who are living lives that do not include parenthood, and the many ways to live happily ever after."

Each chapter of the book features a different couple. They're all different ages, and come from different backgrounds, with different interests, hobbies, and careers. The author asks each couple questions about their decision not to have kids, living with that decision, their relationship with each other and others, challenges in their marriages, etc. I found it to be a very enjoyable and insightful read.

[akairo]

Well, I just have to be different. I am not quite thirty, and I have three children ages 3 and under. I always new that I wanted children. My husband and I never stopped doing the things we loved just because we have children. When the 1st was six weeks old we took him snow-mobiling, all that summer we went running, hiking, played tennis, even went snow-skiing, etc with him on tow. (The added weight burns more calories:D . When my daughter came along 18 mos later we did the same, no problems. Now I have three. My life is busy, but we haven't had to sacrafice. They have brought our lives closer together and strengthen our marriage. We raise them to try new things, eat a variety of foods, be polite and courteous, and enjoy life as we do.

I could not imagine my life without these incredible little people. They make me laugh when I am down and want nothing more than to please me.

As far as behavior, children are trained by their parents, and parents are trained by their children. Believe it or not, but I can take my 3 to a restaurant and eat a meal in peace. You can also potty train an infant!!!!!! For parenting advice go to www.nogreaterjoy.org

OK OK I'm done. I just love where I am, but of course some days I know where you all are coming from.LOL Thankfully they are few and far between.

Tamara

[beejayw1]

Originally posted by Jewel
One other thing...because I'm still a newlywed (almost two years) I have a great many extended family members and friendly acquaintances that consistently tell me "You will regret this decision to not have children".

My question is this: why would anyone want to tell anyone else (except for a spouse, perhaps) exactly what his or her reproductive decision is?

One other thing - I've had people tell me that I'll regret it when I'm old and there's no one to take care of me. Well, that's a really bad reason to have children if you ask me. And I've seen lots of families where the parents never see or hear from their adult children. I hope they didn't raise the kids planning on a good return on that investment!!

Well put!

For myself, I'm not married and I am not living with anyone or dating anyone seriously at the moment. (Also, thanks to heredity - the women in my family go into menopause VERY early - I am now in a situation where it is too late for me to have children. No one knows that, however, but you folks and my family.) For those who are married and childless, count your blessings even if you do have to put up with stupid, ignorant questions. I have people assuming that I am gay or behaving as though I were some sort of major loser in the Great Game of Life.

I should add that I love children, and when I concluded that I wasn't likely to have any, myself, I decided to get more involved with children. I volunteered for Sunday School (4 year olds) and will be tutoring disadvantaged children starting this fall.

There are ways and ways to love children, even if you can't give birth to them or don't want to. Lots of people, children or otherwise, need love.

[mightyh]

I'm not writing to change anyone's mind who has already made a decision. I just wanted to applaud BosunsWife's comments about kids broadening, as well as limiting (which is what you usually hear about), your activities.

If you're waffling on this issue, kids do limit what you will do to some extent for a few years, but they also make you look at the world in a different way, with new eyes. It's been really neat to take my 18 mo. old to the orchard this summer and see how less then ten minutes of peach picking can be the biggest thrill for him. Or to watch him listen to the rain pounding down our fireplace and try to figure it out. Having him has definitely changed our activities, but that has its good, as well as bad.

Now I'm not saying I don't regret not being able to go out for sushi as much as we used to... I definitely do. The last time we went we decided to try it with Noah (his first time to a sushi place)... He was being a bear and wouldn't eat the tempura we ordered him, started throwing a mini fit, so we just shoved the sushi toward him if that's what he was clamoring for. Well, we weren't watching closely enough cause he started screaming at the top of his lungs.... We looked over in horror to realize he had just put the entire mound of wasabi in his mouth!

That story was totally off -topic, but I was reminded of it when I was thinking of things we used to enjoy, but now don't get to as much....

[beejayw1]

Originally posted by mightyh
We looked over in horror to realize he had just put the entire mound of wasabi in his mouth!

I was going to have sushi tonight, but didn't. That story had me howling!

[mightyh]

Glad you enjoyed the story... we were hooting as it happened. As my DH escorted Noah out to calm him down, the entire restaurant turned to me and asked, "Wasabi?" :)

We wondered why we had never seen that scene on, say, Seinfeld or Mrs. Doubtfire or something. Some movie maker ought to pick that up...

[lhall]

First, let me say that DH and I have friends who do not want to have kids. Some of them like other people's children, other's don't.

But, I do have a funny story. A friend at work does not want kids, and neither does his wife. When I was pregnant the second time and he came by the library he's always look so distressed! I think the thought of labor and delivery scares him.
I thought it was funny because he really seemed to be in pain.

It's not like I didn't know what I was getting into.

Leigh

[KValley]

I am paraphrasing an e-mail from a friend who has recently given up pursuing methods to combat infertility:

SWEET GRAPES is the name of the book about living childfree (as opposed to childless). The authors talk about the process of grieving, like you grieve anything--denial, anger, sadness, acceptance, and then moving on.

The book says that after you have tried for awhile (to conceive)
(and everyone must set his/her own timeline) you have three options: (1) remain childless and keep trying and keep being miserable; (2) adopt; (3) become childfree and embrace the wonderful things that you can do with your life that you could not do with children. It really made me realize that life truly can be beautiful if we do make a DECISION to not have children. The authors say that you know you have made a decision when you recommence birth control. It's truly a fabulous book and I'm so
glad that someone wrote it. Most of the 'post infertility' books are about adoption, which is absolutely fine, but only about 25% of infertile couples adopt, so this book was clearly needed.

So, I propose we refer to those who choose not to have children as CHILDFREE, rather than CHILDLESS :)

Julie

[Gail]

I have a million and three good things to say about parenthood, but this thread really isn't about that. I just wanted to say what a pleasure it is to hear this perfectly rational give and take of ideas without either side trying to influence the other. Those of you who've opted not to have children are plainly enjoying your lives; those who've chosen the other way seem to be experiencing parenthood with a sense of joy. And maybe that's the determining factor in making the ultimate decision-- the element of joy.

[AZLorena]

Ok---Here comes somewhat of an oddity.

I am an elementary school teacher. I have been for the past 8 years. My DH and I DO NOT want to have kids. Everyone thinks that I would be a great parent! I probably would be given my natural ability with kids (so I have been told). But, the truth is I have never had an urge to have a child. I like leaving my "work" at work. I can be a completely different person when I get home and I really enjoy that. I am 30 and hubby is 32. We have discussed this since the first few months we were together and have not changed our minds since.

[hlao23]

Hi! Another childfree person here. I'm 32 and DH is 38. When I was younger I used to tell my sister that when I had babies, she could keep them until they were about 9 years old and then I'd take it from there. :)

DH is much more adament about the "no kids" than I am. I'm more of a mind "no biological kids", though I doubt we'll have any. Mentoring is more likely for us. Babies may not limit some activities, but I am having trouble picturing DH and I ballroom dancing together with a baby strapped to one of us. LOL

Two years ago, we made our decision a permanant one (*snip* *snip*). That way, if we ever have a burning desire to have kids, we will be obligated to help one who had no choice in the matter and is already here.

ANOTHER QUESTION

Someone mentioned that children help you see things through new eyes. I've often wondered if that is one reason I haven't felt a need to have kids. I feel very child-like in that I still have an incredible sense of wonder and joy about most experiences - simple everyday things (others have commente on this as well). Do any of you other childfree-ers feel this way?

[HDgirl]

I have two children from my first marriage. Now that I am in the "second" part of my life, my fiancee and I are not having any of our own. There is an age difference between us and he has never married or had children.

I was worried that he would change his mind (because I really don't want to raise a second family) but his decision is based on his parents and childhood. (Although, we met when my kids were pre-teen......and says my two are more that enough.) We gave ourselves a window of time of a few years if he changed his mind, but that was a few years ago. My children are now 17 and 15, and since I will be 40 next year...it's been our decision for our union to remain childfree.

His brothers have started to have children. He loves to hold his nieces and loves to give them back. And he loves to spoil my sister's daughter "our niece" who is 6. She is forever telling everyone that he is her FAVORITE Uncle!!!

[MrsReber]

Okay, so I have a 3 month old at home. Does it change things? Yes, it does. Some better, some worse. It changes you as a person, too. I'm not telling everyone to go have kids. I totally agree with Jewel. Have them if you want them, don't have them if you don't want them. It's a lifelong commitment, you can't divorce your kids if things don't work out! It is A LOT of work, too, and it's only the beginning for us. It's a HUGE responsibility and it's frightening. I don't think I'm any better or worse than anyone for having kids, it was just my decision.

I enjoy my little girl so much, I don't mind the 3:00am feedings because I am so in love with this child. I don't mind changing the dirty diapers and doing the laundry. But it's not for everyone. See, we're big home bodies so it doesn't bother us to not travel places. We'd rather just go camping somewhere for a day or two. I always knew I would have kids. My parents were divorced and I have always longed to have children so that we could do the things that I missed out on and that I could see the world through their eyes since I was forced to grow up too quickly. I DON'T expect my children to take care of me in my old age. My MIL is of that mindset and it kills me to hear "I have five children and not one of them will take me in". Was that your reason for having kids? Not a good one. I can honestly say that I feel more fulfilled now that I have a child. But someone else may feel fulfilled in another way- such as volunteering, taking in pets, or just doing what they want to do.

So, basically, I wanted kids on the original thread and I still want more now!! But that's just me :D

[JulieM]

What an interesting thread! I was surprised how many women on this board are childless by choice, like me. Out in the world I sort of feel like I stand out as unusual--do you guys feel that too?

As a young adult I never thought about having children, I guess I just assumed that would be my path, since that's kind of how you're raised. But as I neared 30 I gave it more thought, but didn't feel ready. Like so many, I always loved the idea of pregnancy and having a little baby, but never liked the idea of how the 18 years after that would affect my life. I always saw it as a choice or a crossroads where I had to weigh what I would lose with what I would gain. If I had ever accidentally gotten pregnant, I would certainly have continued in that direction. But that never happened and each time I would think about this decision, I never felt ready. During my late 20's and early 30's I would ocassionally have a dream that I was having a baby. I figured this was my "clock" working on me but it didn't work. So I had surgery in my late 30's to remove an ovarian cyst resulting in losing an ovary, and decided to have a tubal ligation done on the other side at the same time. Interestingly, I had a lot of doubts for a year or so after that but that went away.

I was afraid as I got older I would regret the decision (I'm now 46), but instead I have found that the older I get the happier I am with the decision! I do adore children though and had the wonderful experience in June of watching my step-daughter's son being born and I love having him in my life.

One of the more irritating things about being childless though, is having family members and friends tell me that the reason I'm in good shape and my body looks good is because I neve had kids! Give me a break! I see lots of mothers with great bodies, plus I work everyday through diet and exercise to look fit and healthy. Have any of you had this problem?

[emilycat]

I don't really have any personal experiences to share, but I just wanted to put in my .02 about the notion that opting not to have children is selfish. This appalls me. How can not bringing more children into the world, particularly if you're not prepared to devote a substantial amount of time, love and devotion to their upbringing, be selfish? It baffles me. I think it's far more selfish to have children merely to satiate family members' or society's standards without any consideration for how wanted that child is.
Everyone has different standards for how much time they want to devote to themselves and their own lives, and many direct their generosity and giving to other aspects of life through volunteering, work, etc. The decision to remain child-free in no way makes someone selfish, IMHO.

Anyway, I'm so enjoying reading this thread. I may have to run it off and tuck it away for future reading years from now. :)

[Gina O]

I read this thread and reread my post on the previous one.... obviously nothing has changed. Just wanted to add a comment I heard recently. Someone not fully aware of my situation, when I said that I was not planning to have children did the usual "well, I am sure you will change your mind." When I said that I can't because I have had a hysterectomy, her comment was "well, you can always adopt." That is the second or third time I have heard that and it always strikes me as amazingly ironic. It also always seems to leave me speechless.

JulieM- Not that I want to experience more irritating comments, but it might be fun to having someone tell me that I look so good because I have never had children... I would enjoy telling them that as a matter of fact I have. I look good because, like you I am sure, I work at it.

On a related note, I realize this goes against everything I was taught in my feminism class in college, and lots of what we hear/read in the media, but if you are having medical problems, and the Dr. suggests a hysterectomy, I would listen carefully to him or her. When my Dr. suggested it, I talked to every woman I could find who has had one. Not a single one regretted it, now me included. We hear how bad it and unnecessary it is everyday, but what you don't hear is how much better it can make you feel, how much simpler it makes your life. I was lucky, I did get to keep my ovaries, so I have all the hormones still there. Okay, that is my soapbox for the day.... just know that they are not all bad. Gina

[SandyM]

What amazes me, after I mention to people that we're not ever going to have children, is the comment "Ohhhhhh you would make WONDERFUL parents!!!!" They know this because............????? :confused:

[Alisa]

I just thought I'd chime in as another "Childfree by choice" chick. I had to have a tubal ligation a few years ago due to a medical problem and it was SUCH A RELIEF!!! I've never wanted to have children, and now everyone assumes that we don't have any because we can't - so we don't get those frustrating comments anymore. I work in a public library and interact with children all day long. I love my friends' children and my little nephew. I love seeing a child's face light up when they discover that books are good! Somehow this is enough for me - as Gail said, I have enough joy in my life.

For anyone searching for a way to deal with the questions about why you are childfree - just say you've got some medical difficulties....of course, then you get the "why don't you adopt" routine. If I'm in a good mood I just smile and change the subject, if I'm in a bad mood I say, "Yes, we've actually heard about that one or two times"...and stalk off to find a glass of wine!

I have to add that the absolute most painful thing in my life is when people say, "your DH would make such a great Dad". Even my mother, when watching him play with my nephew said, "He should have a houseful of kids." She immediately put her hand to her mouth and looked stricken, but it stung. We have a great relationship but man that hurt.

[Wendy w]

Originally posted by Gail
As to the rude question issue, I dunno. I kind of think the "because I hate kids answer" might be pretty effective... :p

How I would love to see the facial expressions after that one!

This reminds me of when people used to ask me when I would find someone and get married. I went through a phase where I would tell them that I was meant to be a mistress and to watch their husbands:p :p , it shut them up fast.

This is a great thread and I identify with so many things said here. I like other people's kids (sometimes) and it is great to borrow, spoil and give them back. I am madly in love with my 7 month old great nephew but I'm really glad that I don't have children as I don't know if I could make the sacrifices. I don't think that I have a biological timeclock.

As Jewel said, they are too important to raise haphazardly (which I see all around) and I don't think that I would live up to my standards. I'm quite content being a bird Mom which everyone says I'm good at.

We are also obscenely overpopulated. If I ever change my mind, I will adopt an older child or join the Big Sister program.

[SusanT]

This thread reminds me of a movie "Me, Myself and I" starring Rachel Griffiths. She plays a single woman who keeps wondering what would have happened if she had married her college sweetheart years ago. She's bonked on the head and finds herself in that life with a house in the suburbs and three kids and it's not quite what she imagined. Her other, married self longed to know what it was like to be single.

Long story short, theme of the movie is that happiness comes from loving and accepting yourself, not from the "things" that are supposed to make you happy.

[Jewel]

You know, the heart and the mind are strange little buggers, and they always seem to want to fight one another. My heart sometimes wants a baby. I look at my husband and realize how much I love him, and how I would love to share the birth experience with him...to feel his hands on my stomach as our baby grows and kicks, to have him holding my hand while I call him ugly names in the delivery room. I would love to see the baby that we create together. Would this baby have my big eyes and his curly hair? His sunny and optimistic disposition and my emotional ways? Sometimes I watch 'A Baby Story' on TV and almost cry because I want to experience that so much with the husband that I love more than anything else in the world.

But then my mind taps me on the shoulder and nudges my heart aside...and I realize that no matter how wonderful that whole birth and baby experience would be, the fact is that if we're lucky, that baby will grow to be a toddler, then a child, then a teenager, then a young adult, then an adult. The responsibility doesn't end at age 18. All that happens at age 18 is that you pay more bail money to get them out of adult jail instead of juvenile hall! My mind realized that I could not handle the responsibilities of a child. I want a baby, but a child is not something I want in my life. I had to think that far ahead and be honest with myself. Heck, nearly everyone loves babies! They're cute, they coo, they have the softest skin and most of the time they smell so good! Who wouldn't want a baby?? I think that's why so many people have them without thinking it through...they only hear the words 'have a baby'. If someone said to them 'When are you going to have that toddler that spills olive oil all over your kitchen floor, the teenager that needs $5000 worth of orthodontic work and the young adult that wrecks your car?" they just might think a little harder before they make the decision...

[HDgirl]

That's how I feel about SO...I have thought about having his child...how different it would be with him. But I have reached a point in my life that having a child now would mean bigger changes than the first time.

Picture me at 57 waiting up for my 17 year-old to come home with the car. NO WAY! I do that now...you should see the dark circles!!!

Jewel is so right about it not ending at 18. My mom still worries about us and the three of us are in our late thirties and don't have any real problems. I know I will always worry about my two cubs.

[SusanT]

Jewel & HD Girl - I feel the same way sometimes about having DH's baby. I've told him that, if I ever do, he's the only man I'd go through childbirth for!

P.S. I've also seen " A Baby Story" a couple of times and I'm appalled at how completely open some people are about giving birth - you know having the family, the neighbors, etc. in the room while the baby's born. In one episode, the baby's head was showing in the birth canal and the half dozen or so people standing at the mother's feet picked up cameras and started taking pictures of her - well, you know....

After I watch these, I make my husband swear that he won't let anyone except for perhaps my Mom into the delivery room if we ever have a baby.

PPS - I'm sure someone will chime in "you'll feel differently when it's you having the baby" but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

[SueK]

Trust me Susan, you're not alone in being amazed at how some of those women on "A Baby Story" invite everyone into the labor rooms! I had my husband with me, period. The thought of even having my in-laws, brother-in-laws, etc. in there watching me......ugh, not a visual I want to think about!

[beacooker]

Gee SusanT, when its you having the baby I'm sure you suddenly will want your whole family staring at your crotch! Frankly, I don't even really want my husband looking there when I give birth - not out of shyness, but because I figure he might have a problem erasing the image from his mind later on. I don't quite understand those people on Baby Story either. I guess if you don't mind a TV crew there for the birth, you don't mind family and friends, either.

As far as people telling you that you'll regret the decision not to have kids later - I know there have been so many times in my life when people have told me the same thing (like choosing not to have a big wedding), and I know that I have never regretted any of the things people told me I would. I think as long as a decision is made thoughtfully, as all of you seem to have, there is no reason you will ever regret it. And not having kids isn't something that happens 'accidentally' - you almost can't help but make a thoughtful decision about it. As other people have said, people who are going to be rude are going to be rude, so no matter what choices you have made with your life, someone will question you.

So kudos to all who make thoughtful decisions about whether or not to have kids, no matter what the decision is.

[Jewel]

A bit off-color but...my best friend's father was in the delivery room when she gave birth. He came out really shaken and sweaty, and I asked if everything was OK. He said yes, that my buddy and my Goddaughter were healthy and happy...but then he told me he wasn't sure if he was ever gonna get 'interested' in that area of her body again after seeing it look like a blown-out tire! :eek:

Shoulda seen my husband's face! I think that's one of the reasons he doesn't want kids now! :p

[SusanT]

Ummm. . .your best friend's father?

[Jewel]

Originally posted by SusanT
Ummm. . .your best friend's father?

WHOOPS!!! I mean...well...her HUSBAND walked out of the delivery room...oh Heck, I just opened up a whole new type of fertility thread, didn't I?? (blush!) :eek:

[Wendy w]

Jewel,

Your story reminds me of when I attended my great nephew's birth last January. There was a crowd (all family) in the delivery room: my oldest nephew, (the dad), sister, BIL, 12 yr old nephew, sis' ex hubby (we all get along), his wife and one of their sons and me! I don't know if I would want a group like that if I were to do that but my niece isn't the modest sort. My other sister who lives out of town thought it was abysmal.

Anyway, ex BIL's son who is about 19 said that he would never look at women the same way-whatever that meant.

[Jewel]

Yeah, but it's been three years and every time I think of his 'blown out tire' reference I burst out laughing! :D

[beacooker]

Originally posted by Jewel


WHOOPS!!! I mean...well...her HUSBAND walked out of the delivery room...oh Heck, I just opened up a whole new type of fertility thread, didn't I?? (blush!) :eek:

ROFL!!!

I also told DH that if I have a C-section, I don't want him looking. It just seems weird for him to see inside me. Especially when I won't get to see. And what if my insides are really funny looking??

[Wendy w]

Jewel, yeah, your story is funnier but it just reminded me of that. That young man was thoroughly baffled, I guess you had to be there.

[Jewel]

Originally posted by beacooker


ROFL!!!

I also told DH that if I have a C-section, I don't want him looking. It just seems weird for him to see inside me. Especially when I won't get to see. And what if my insides are really funny looking??

Trust me, Girlfriend, they're funny looking!! :cool:

[MrsReber]

Jewel your story reminds me of my husband. He wouldn't look at that whole area during the birth! Just stayed by my side. The doctor and nurse kept telling him to look and he just couldn't. He later told my sister "I'm going to have to go back down there someday". What is it about men that they blurt out things like that?

[SandyM]

Oh my gosh Susan that is too funny!!!

[Jewel]

OK, how MY office wonders why I'm snorting and snickering over here in my cubicle! I'm going to have to remember that one Susan! :D

[lhall]

Originally posted by SusanT
PPS - I'm sure someone will chime in "you'll feel differently when it's you having the baby" but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't!

The only person I allowed in the delivery room with me both times was DH. I did use a mirror so I could see though. Also, while we did video tape the birth both times DH was ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN TO MAKE ANY CROTCH SHOTS!

Leigh

[donleyk]

We are also childfree by choice. DH and me were both hellions growing up. We didn't want to deal with it. (Although looking at our grand nephews and niece I think it skips a generation :) )

I remember being asked what I was going to be when I grew up. I always answered "a mom" . Then, slowly, I came to realize it's not what I wanted to do.

It's amazing too. DH and I decided rather abruptly to get married. My MIL asked if we had to. I was disappointed in her reaction. Then she was upset with us when we told her we weren't having kids. Whenever she complains about how her grandchildren are behaving/being raised I remind her that's one of the reasons why we didn't have them. I never miss this opportunity. Snot, ain't I?

I have had in-laws comment on me being pregnant when I gained weight after quiting smoking. My comment was, no, I'm just a pig! Half the time they didn't believe me. You can't win. I wish I would have thought of the reply "Oh, I can't have children. Because I hate them" !! That might have gotten the point across.

I have not regretted the decision. DH has waffled a little. But he does like our lifestyle and doesn't regret it. Like others have commented, we will join the big brothers/sisters program if we have the need.

I have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks for asking.

[kwormann]

Originally posted by Jewel
You know, the heart and the mind are strange little buggers, and they always seem to want to fight one another. My heart sometimes wants a baby. I look at my husband and realize how much I love him, and how I would love to share the birth experience with him...to feel his hands on my stomach as our baby grows and kicks, to have him holding my hand while I call him ugly names in the delivery room. I would love to see the baby that we create together. Would this baby have my big eyes and his curly hair? His sunny and optimistic disposition and my emotional ways? Sometimes I watch 'A Baby Story' on TV and almost cry because I want to experience that so much with the husband that I love more than anything else in the world.
...

Well, I just HAD to stop in, as I was the one that started the other thread mentioned. I was also amazed at the women who were CBC (childless by choice).

ANyway, I had some major maternal things happen last year and really wanted a baby. Unfortunately, DH has MD and after lots of research on the effects on the baby and the way he may go downhill as he gets older, I think we decided it would be best not to. We want to do so many things and he may not be able to be very active in 20 year after a child is gone, so we need to do our retirement stuff while we still can. The funny thing is, after the decision was made, I was fine with it. After all, I am a teacher and am with children all day. I also love being around other's children, so I do get to take care or wanting to be with them. I guess we are going to check into the *snip snip* option soon.....

[Personal Chef]

I'm in the same boat you are!! My husband and I dated 7 1/2 years before getting married and lived together for about 3 years. To be honest, if EVERYONE we knew wasn't having kids I'm not sure I'd think about it that much. I'm 34 and my husband is 35. Hubby will probably agree to one baby as we both are concerned that we'll have regrets if we don't and neither of us wants to be an old parent. I don't see us having more than one baby though. I'm neutral about the whole thing. I told him recently that if he told me then that he never wanted kids that I'd be a little upset but would get over it. I also told him that if we had problems conceiving that I don't think I would go through heroic efforts to have a baby naturally nor would I adopt.

[BosunsWife]

You girls crack me up. DH stayed up around the mid section when DD was born, he gets kind of squeamish. In fact, I was kind of suprised that he didn't pass out LOL! DH still talks about the one nurse that was crawling over the top of him to push down on my stomach when I was pushing DD out.

As for having an audience. We specifically told my parents (across country when DD was born) not to show up until a week after she was born and we told his parents (an hour away) that we would call AFTER she had arrived. His parents didn't really listen, but did wait in the waiting room until they received an okay from DH to come in. It was a special time between DH and I and we didn't need an audience. We had no video cameras and the only still shots we have are about a half an hour after she was born. I'm sorry, but I don't need a crotch shot to remind me of what happened.