ma'am or miss?

[oct2189]

The WF where I shop always addresses female customers as "Miss". I asked if this had become a policy because some women objected to 'Ma'am", and was told that there have been women who pitched major fist when called Ma'am.
So my question is - do you find Ma'am upsetting? If so, why?:confused:

[Jessica]

I don't object to being called ma'am, but then, I don't object to someone trying to be polite AND I am not trying to pretend I am 21.

[Robyn1007]

Ha! It always throws me off when I get called ma'am but I'm not offended by it, more just surprised. But, often times it's by high school or college age workers and at the ripe old age of 33 I'm sure I seem like a ma'am to them. ;) :p

[leebee]

It doesn't bother me, but I do know that a lot of American women often have a problem with it. I worked many years in retail, and was yelled at for using "ma'am" several times. It's crazy. I really wanted to use "you old bat" instead several times. I have also been yelled at for calling a woman "miss" when she felt "ma'am" was appropriate. It's a no-win!

[jmarie]

To me, you would say Ma'am with an older person say 40 or older
Miss to anyone under 40....

I made the mistake of not paying attention, when the server introduced herself. When she walked by I said "Miss" to get her attention, she walked over to the table and said "Look, I have a name. My name is Ginger, if you need my help, I would appreciate your calling me by my name. (Yes, she was visibly upset) Oops...my bad. From that day on, I have paid attention.

It wouldn't upset me to be called either, but Ma'am, is more appropriate for my age.

[oct2189]

I'm with you all. It would never occur to me to get aggitated over someone's attempt to be potlite. On the other hand, if they offered me the senior discount and I'm in my early 40's, NOW we have a situation!:rolleyes:

[Libra20]

I'm in the please don't call me Ma'am camp! It makes me feel old, especially when a teenager says it.

[BarbaraL]

I was a bit taken aback the first time I was addressed as "ma'am" in my younger days. But, as I was married, I wasn't a "miss" and I appreciated the politeness. Now that I'm over 40 (and then some), ma'am definitely applies.

I'm horrified that someone would pitch a fit over someone just trying to address someone politely. What are they supposed to say, "Hey, you"? Same issue as people getting all crazed about "Merry Christmas" vs "Happy Holidays". Lighten up, people.

[Canice]

This question came up recently on another forum I frequent, and I will say YES, I hate being called "ma'am". But I sure as heck don't find it "upsetting". It's just my own resentment at having to face the fact that I am now old. There's that weird line, where you wake up one day and are no longer young enough to be "miss" (regardless of marital status) and for me it's unpleasant. But furthermore (and I know this is entirely regional) there is no need whatsoever for an honorific unless you're shouting after someone who's left her wallet at the checkout: "Ma'am! Your wallet!". Otherwise, there's not need for it one way or another. I shop at a number of WF stores, and they never use "ma'am" or "miss" and manage to be completely polite and friendly, regardless. Safeway requires its employees to read your receipt and struggle with your last name, however long it takes them. Here in the city, it's always "Thank you, Ms....." and then they puzzle for long minutes over my last name as I try to snatch the receipt out of their hand and make my getaway. When I have to shop in the suburbs, it's always "Thank you, MRS...." and yes, I do find that annoying. They may find it impossible to believe that someone my age is not married and using her husband's name, but it's actually not that mind-bending a concept.


I don't object to being called ma'am, but then, I don't object to someone trying to be polite AND I am not trying to pretend I am 21.
Yea, I know. I totally understand that they're being polite and that I am of "ma'am" age. It's just unpleasant for me :o.



I made the mistake of not paying attention, when the server introduced herself. When she walked by I said "Miss" to get her attention, she walked over to the table and said "Look, I have a name. My name is Ginger, if you need my help, I would appreciate your calling me by my name. (Yes, she was visibly upset) Oops...my bad. From that day on, I have paid attention.
OK, and then there's just the totally socially inept, which is a category unto itself. Er, the server, not you.

I have to say, after having spent so much time in Italy in my late teens and early 20s, it was actually refreshing to go back in my early 30s and suddenly be invisible, "signora" instead of "signorina" (although in many parts of Italy it's still based on marital status and not age). It was one time I loved feeling old: no more cat calls, wolf whistles, or crude comments as I walked down the street...

[1grl1by]

Safeway requires its employees to read your receipt and struggle with your last name, however long it takes them. Here in the city, it's always "Thank you, Ms....." and then they puzzle for long minutes over my last name ...

I've actually stopped shopping at Safeway due to that policy. If they would just let it go and not insist on trying to get it out, especially after I've said "It's ok, it's ok" or pronounced my last name for them 6 or 7 times (it's phonetic, not too difficult).

Other than that I'm pretty free wheeling, miss, ma'am, nothing, whatever, just don't call me late for dinner.

[blazedog]

I think people should have some real problems and THEN consider whether they have the mental energy to complain to a manager because someone calls them ma'am. :rolleyes:

I don't really care one way or the other and basically view it as a person's own negative feelings about being of a certain age because at some point in your thirties you are no longer a sweet young thing or a "miss" - whatever your marital status is.

What does annoy me is when elderly women are addressed as "young lady" in an attempt a jocular form of address - that I find demeaning.

As for a waitress who is insulted by not being called by her name. Excuse ME but SHE needs to be read the riot act by management as I have never heard that it is appropriate to call a waitperson by their first (or last name). Perhaps an exception would be if one went to a restaurant often enough so that one really does have a relationship with that person - i.e. you have exchanged conversation beyond making requests for food.

[PurplePotato]

Ha! It always throws me off when I get called ma'am but I'm not offended by it, more just surprised.

This is pretty much how I feel. Kinda takes you a second to figure out, wait, am I ma'am age now?

I also, for some bizarre reason, dislike when service people in my home call me Mrs. LastName. I have no idea why. Call me Christy, Ma'am or Miss. But the Mrs thing gets to me because it makes me feel really O.L.D.

Being addressed that way in writing or out and about (like being called for your appointment at an office) is just fine with me. For some reason in my home drives me crazy.

[Shugness]

It's kind of sad to me that some people can get so upset over something so frivolous as whether they get called "ma'am" or "miss". I kind of wish that's was the least of my worries? It could be worse, you could get called "sir". :)

The other week I was doing an adoption counsel with a young man. His father had a greyhound who died last summer so he wanted to adopt him another one for Christmas this year. I was introducing him to the greyhounds that fit their criteria. Everything I said to him he responded "yes ma'am". He told me he's a senior in college, so I estimate he is 21-24 years of age. Well, I'm only 27, but I did not find him calling me "ma'am" disrespectful, in fact I was kind of flattered by it. It indicated to me that he was very appreciative of my time and efforts and respected what I had to say. For a young man these days, that's saying a lot. I suspect he was raised with manners, he'll talk to any woman that way, regardless of their age.

I also like it when people call me Mrs. Shugness :D Doesn't make me feel old, makes me feel respected.

[Robyncz]

GAH! I hear some people complaining because "people are so rude nowadays" and other people complaining because people use the "wrong" honorific when trying to be polite.

Apparently many people are just looking to be offended and there's no way to get it right.

[Jessica]

Canice--Maybe ma'am just doesn't have the pleasant ring of signora?

[funniegrrl]

Being a Southerner, it wouldn't occur to me to think twice about being called ma'am, even when I was much younger. There's a saying ... if you suspect that a woman is at least 30 minutes older than you are, you call her ma'am. To me, "Miss" sounds a little stilted, like I dropped into a 1940's shopgirl movie. But, I wouldn't really give it a second thought, either.

[SusanMac]

See, I feel just the opposite (and also grew up in the South!). I think 'miss' is always appropriate when referring to a woman. Miss sounds more polite and more modern to me.

Ma'am sounds old fashioned & proper, in a 1950s, pre-feminism kind of way. Kind of the equivalent of DH's aunt who sends Christmas cards each year addressed "Mr & Mrs Bob Smith." Unless you're wearing boots & a cowboy hat, then ma'am might sound charming. (there's a great Garth Brooks song about that :-)

But, I'd never ever say anything to a service person or mgmt. I agree w/the others -- if someone's trying to be polite, that's always a good thing. It's not about my personal opinion. Either one is acceptable.

[lmenichel]

I try to avoid using either because I know people get offended but don't care if people say either to me. If I'm trying to get someone's attention I try to say something else like "excuse me" or "hello" really loud. Definitely a no win situation like someone mentioned.

[sneezles]

I was raised by a military man and everything was answered with a sir or m'am at the end of the reply, not only to my parents but any adult (though the nuns were Sr).

After moving to Texas in the 70s and women old enough to be my grandmother said m'am to me (clerks, waitresses) it took awhile to get used to it but I'm past it.

I ad a girl that worked for me in Omaha that never arrived on time, always asked for days off (cripes she only worked 15 hours a week) and was just generally a PITA. I let her go, her mother called that afternoon to rag on me and when I kept replying with m'am she said, "And you can cut the cr@p with your m'am!" To which I replied, "I was taught to show respect whether the person deserved it or not." and hung up.

It seems ridiculous to take offense at a sign of respect...BTA, it beats the heck out of being called "Honey"

[RiverFarm]

Sneezles, I love your retort! Quick thinking on your part, too!

Since I'm obviously eligible for senior discounts "ma'am" is fine for me. "Miss" seems silly. But any honorific is a step in the right direction and I wouldn't quibble. What really frosts me is to have some snip in a doctor's office call me by my first name. I've had them excuse themselves on the basis that my last name is difficult, but I always reply that lawyers' office staff never have a problem with that.

Jmarie, the waitress who snarled at you should have gotten no tip and a lecture from the manager. Talk about rude! Personally I am unlikely to remember a waitperson's name based on that pro forma introduction at the beginning of a dining experience. Surely people are too focussed on the menu and their dining companions at that point!

[Shugness]

BTA, it beats the heck out of being called "Honey"

I once about took out a female employee at a drive thru who managed to call my husband "sweetie" and "honey" about 10 times within a matter of a minute exchange. It was a good thing she was 1.) Ugly and 2.) Out of my reach. :D :D :D

But seriously, that seems real popular here in the south and it drives me crazy, there is nothing professional or respectful about it. Just plain trashy in my opinion.

[Beth]

It felt a bit strange when I was first called ma'am, but I was married, had kids and it fit -- especially coming from young kids. Growing up in the South, I don't think you question it so much as hesitate for a moment when it is first applied to you. The only time it bothers me is coming from the mouth of someone who is being insincere, but then the whole situation is generally a problem.

I'll take either over sir -- which I have been called, typically by a half-asleep checker who doesn't even look up and sees a figure in front of them tall enough to assume it must be a man. Some look up and apologize -- some never do, but I've never gone and had a fit with the manager because their checker was still attempting politeness when half-asleep or whatever.

[Robyncz]

I'll take either over sir -- which I have been called, typically by a half-asleep checker who doesn't even look up and sees a figure in front of them tall enough to assume it must be a man. Some look up and apologize -- some never do, but I've never gone and had a fit with the manager because their checker was still attempting politeness when half-asleep or whatever.

My husband, who is 5 foot four, gets called "ma'am" ALL THE TIME by checkers/clerks who don't actually look at him. He has a goatee and is not remotely feminine, so we figure people's brains must do a quick scan and decide gender based on height. There's always a brilliantly amusing moment when they look up and realize the lady is bearded and they have to sort it all out. You'd think they'd learn to LOOK before they label!

[SusanMac]

That reminds me that DH has been called ma'am/miss a few times in restaurants, as he's grown his hair out longer in the past few years! The servers always get super embarrassed and apologize profusely. But we just laugh it off. Pretty funny actually

[funniegrrl]

But seriously, that seems real popular here in the south and it drives me crazy, there is nothing professional or respectful about it. Just plain trashy in my opinion.

Wow, that's a bit of an overreaction. It totally depends on who it's coming from, IMHO. I don't want a man calling me Honey, but a woman? meh. And for waitresses over a certain age in mom-and-pop restaurants, it seems de rigueur. I heard it from a nurse recently and it felt a little sweet and sensitive -- I was having a very bad day and feeling a little buffeted by the process of being practiced upon by the medical professions. Even coming from an elderly man, it doesn't bother me, as long as it's not accompanied by leering or a patronizing attitude.

[Beth]

I agree. While sweetie and honey are not my favorites, there are people I know who use them so nicely that it is one of the endearing things about them. All depends on the source and the sincerity, I suppose.

[Jessica]

I am 5'3", have long hair and significant curves. If someone called me "sir," I would assume a visual impairment of some kind.

The place where sweetie and honey bother me is in a medical setting. My mother is 68 and she views it as patronizing; the nurse has the chart and can call her Firstname or MrsLastname. Mom actually wrote a column about this when her own mother was at the end of her life and receiving a lot of medical care. It got the most replies of any of her columns and many hospital staffers said they were posting it in the lounges.

[LakeMartinGal]

What does annoy me is when elderly women are addressed as "young lady" in an attempt a jocular form of address - that I find demeaning.
I know! Who do they think they're kidding, anyway?:rolleyes:


Being a Southerner, it wouldn't occur to me to think twice about being called ma'am, even when I was much younger. There's a saying ... if you suspect that a woman is at least 30 minutes older than you are, you call her ma'am. To me, "Miss" sounds a little stilted, like I dropped into a 1940's shopgirl movie. But, I wouldn't really give it a second thought, either.
In Alabama, the "miss" honorific has a name with it... Miss Karen, etc. Otherwise, Ma'am is safe unless they're way younger.

I agree. While sweetie and honey are not my favorites, there are people I know who use them so nicely that it is one of the endearing things about them. All depends on the source and the sincerity, I suppose.I agree with the sincerity part... I always hated being called "dearie" by salesladies in black bombazine dresses! Now I'm showing my age, huh!;)

[Canice]

What does annoy me is when elderly women are addressed as "young lady" in an attempt a jocular form of address - that I find demeaning.

That was the only one that really bugged my mom; she found it demeaning as well, but every now and then we'd be out together and hear a man call an elderly woman "young lady" and she (the customer) would giggle and thank him or say something cute in return. I always thought that was odd.

[Shugness]

Wow, that's a bit of an overreaction. It totally depends on who it's coming from, IMHO. I don't want a man calling me Honey, but a woman? meh. And for waitresses over a certain age in mom-and-pop restaurants, it seems de rigueur. I heard it from a nurse recently and it felt a little sweet and sensitive -- I was having a very bad day and feeling a little buffeted by the process of being practiced upon by the medical professions. Even coming from an elderly man, it doesn't bother me, as long as it's not accompanied by leering or a patronizing attitude.

For the record, I am speaking of situations where I am the customer. And I stand by my original statement, I find it unprofessional and trashy. I find it demeaning. Overreacting or not, that's MY opinion. :)

[SusanMac]

Shugness - I'm with you on 'sweetie' and 'honey.' It's always very disengenuous (sp?). It typically comes from people you don't know & are likely never to see again. I just find those terms way too personal to be used in a retail environment (or even by a nurse). DH is the only one allowed to call me sweetie!

Your descriptions of 'young lady' remind me of that guy on the Today Show who does the 100 y.o. birthday announcements from Smuckers. Then they make it worse by putting their photo on a jar of Smuckers for the graphic. He doesn't even know these people. Makes my skin crawl & I have to change the channel whenever he comes on!!

[sneezles]

Your descriptions of 'young lady' remind me of that guy on the Today Show who does the 100 y.o. birthday announcements from Smuckers. Then they make it worse by putting their photo on a jar of Smuckers for the graphic. He doesn't even know these people. Makes my skin crawl & I have to change the channel whenever he comes on!!


Willard Scott...almost makes me nauseous to watch that segment! It's as if NBC can't make the decision to let the guy go so they created this stupid spot. Thank goodness DH only watches this when we travel!:p

[oct2189]

GAH! I hear some people complaining because "people are so rude nowadays" and other people complaining because people use the "wrong" honorific when trying to be polite.

Apparently many people are just looking to be offended and there's no way to get it right.


I was reading some of these posts to DH since he was with me when I asked the question of the WF employee, and this one really resounded with him.
He was raised to open doors for women, and in San Francisco, he's often met with sneers and sacastic "gee, thanks" when he opens a door for someone. I asked him how he responds to them and he looked embarrassed and said " I say have a nice day ma'am."

[Canice]

... I asked him how he responds to them and he looked embarrassed and said " i say have a nice day ma'am."

lol!!

[PurplePotato]

I asked him how he responds to them and he looked embarrassed and said " I say have a nice day ma'am."

That's awesome. He's maintaining his good manners and probably royally irritating them in the process. ;)

The one really nice thing about where I live is that I often see people of both sexes holding doors for others. Very nice, very refreshing.

[Robyn1007]

That's awesome. He's maintaining his good manners and probably royally irritating them in the process. ;)

The one really nice thing about where I live is that I often see people of both sexes holding doors for others. Very nice, very refreshing.

I agree, love his response!

I don't hesitate to hold the door for people behind me, I don't even register their sex most of the time. Well, unless he's good looking. :p To me one just doesn't let the door close in somone's face regardless of either person's sex.

[jpap]

I was reading some of these posts to DH since he was with me when I asked the question of the WF employee, and this one really resounded with him.
He was raised to open doors for women, and in San Francisco, he's often met with sneers and sacastic "gee, thanks" when he opens a door for someone. I asked him how he responds to them and he looked embarrassed and said " I say have a nice day ma'am."

Okay, now I have a slight crush on your husband!:D;) That's adorable.

[leebee]

I work at a university and have lately been flabbergasted at the number of young men who DO hold doors open for me. When I thank them, they invariably say, "You're welcome, ma'am." I LOVE it. I don't mind the ma'am--I am more than twice the age of most of them and it's such a polite gesture. There was one instance where the young man slowed down to open one door, then bypassed me on some stairs to open another door. I said, "Thank you, my good sir," and he responded, "My pleasure, dear lady." He was all of 18 years old. Lovely! Now, to figure out how to teach my kids to do the same!

[clairea]

On the issue of ma'am vs. miss. I guess I am in the minority. Like another poster, I was raised (and live) in the South, where pretty much everyone is addressed as "ma'am". The only time I don't like it is at work (I practice law in a field where many of the attorneys I work with are much much younger than me) when other lawyers constantly "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am" me, but I know that it is just an ingrained habit for them, just like it is for me and for my kids so I don't say anything about it. I don't like to be called "Miss". Somehow to me that comes across as a bit condescending, maybe because the way I was raised "Ma'am" is a term of respect. As OP mentioned, "Miss" is generally used as an honorific with a first name for an adult (to a child) or older person (to someone my age) who is close enough to be addressed by a first name but still deserves the respect of being called by a title.

As to doors, I agreed with Robyn, that you just don't let a door close in someone's face regardless of sex. If I happen to be in a position to open or hold a door, I do so. However, I was taught that gentlemen open doors, and I am teaching my son the same. He know that it is his responsibility to find a way to get to the door (gracefully-- this is the part we are still working on :p) in order to be able to open it and hold it for women and anyone older than him. However, my daughter is also taught to do the same for anyone older than her or anyone who appears to be in a position that might make it difficult for them to open a door, and that, although it is good manners for men to open doors for women, it is terrible manners for a woman to stand there and wait for a man to open a door for her! (I have seen this happen and hate it)

[Robyn1007]

As to doors, I agreed with Robyn, that you just don't let a door close in someone's face regardless of sex. If I happen to be in a position to open or hold a door, I do so. However, I was taught that gentlemen open doors, and I am teaching my son the same. He know that it is his responsibility to find a way to get to the door (gracefully-- this is the part we are still working on :p) in order to be able to open it and hold it for women and anyone older than him. However, my daughter is also taught to do the same for anyone older than her or anyone who appears to be in a position that might make it difficult for them to open a door, and that, although it is good manners for men to open doors for women, it is terrible manners for a woman to stand there and wait for a man to open a door for her! (I have seen this happen and hate it)

When I see a child of any age make an effort to hold a door for me I am always enthusiastically appreciative to both the child and the parent. I want them to learn that it's appreciated so they continue doing it! :D

[clairea]

When I see a child of any age make an effort to hold a door for me I am always enthusiastically appreciative to both the child and the parent. I want them to learn that it's appreciated so they continue doing it! :D

As a parent, I really appreciate this. It is very discouraging for kids than to put effort into learning/remembering good manners and then to have people be rude in return. It doesn't take anything just to say "thank you", but people who put a little extra effort into showing their appreciation are certainly noticed by my kids, and it makes them feel good.

[Beth]

I agree with all the comments on doors -- and saying thank you. It's just a common courtesy. Except someone standing and waiting for someone else to come open a door if they are not disabled.

I wanted to chime in in Kay's comment about Miss So-and-so. I actually loved it when my kids were young and their friends would call me Miss Beth. It was more personal than ma'am and much easier than either my maiden or married surnames are for kids to say, and it was just so cute when little ones would come up and say it. I rarely heard it from anyone else unless it was another parent or adult in that type of setting. They are teens now and typically go for the whole last name -- so I feel like I'm my MIL. :D

[LakeMartinGal]

They are teens now and typically go for the whole last name -- so I feel like I'm my MIL. :DI was at a point that, when someone called me Mrs. LastName, I looked around for my MIL! I had to laugh one time, when my cousin's boyfriend asked if he could call my mother FirstName, she looked at him (50 years younger than she) and said, "Of course! It's my name!":cool: I just never thought of her as that cool before that! :D

[Jessica]

This is off the topic a bit but around here, kids call their parents' friends by their first names. I am uncomfortable with my boys doing that and I ask them to call them Miss Firstname or Mr. Firstname. But that does make us stand out. I do not correct children who call me by my first name.

[JenniferJJ]

This is off the topic a bit but around here, kids call their parents' friends by their first names. I am uncomfortable with my boys doing that and I ask them to call them Miss Firstname or Mr. Firstname. But that does make us stand out. I do not correct children who call me by my first name.

I am seeing that more here, too. Sometimes I am Miss Jennifer, but often just Jennifer. When I had a brownie troop, I had the girls call me Miss Lastname since that's what they called the other leaders.

What irks me even more is when I get called by my first name or Miss Jennifer and someone who is married gets called something with more respect. Um, just because I'm single doesn't mean I'm less of an adult.

The only time I ever corrected a child was when my nephew called me Jenny (my name as a child that my family still calls me). This really wasn't a dis-respect thing from him. He was 4 1/2 and had just gotten re-aquainted with me since they had lived in Germany for two years. Apparently over there they called there aunt and uncle by their first names. His older brother had been old enough to know me before they moved and so he did call me aunt. This was a little bit of a respect thing and a little bit of an emotional thing - I really like being an aunt and wanted that title.

Out of my friends' kids who call me "Miss Jennifer", it was kind of cute because he really thought of the "Miss" as my name so much that he made me an "M" out of popsicle sticks because that was the first letter of my name.

[BarbaraL]

I think that the name thing can be confusing, and not always just for children.

I'm part of a group of long-term friends; we've watched each other get married and then raise our children. All of the kids call us by our first names. Others (neighbors, some old enough to be MY parents; our realtor, etc) told my (then-young) daughter to call them by their first names. Then, when we were talking with another neighbor and calling her by her first name, DD called her FIRSTname too, and the neighbor told her "It's Mrs. LASTname."

I worked in a research lab where everyone was FIRSTname unless they had a PhD, then they were DR.LASTname. I moved to another department, where all colleagues were called by their first names. My default position is use the more formal (Dr/Mr/Mrs/Ms LASTname) and wait to be invited to use their first name.

[RiverFarm]

Having worked in a school most of my professional life I was used to kids calling us Mr./Mrs. Lastname. My kids always called our friends by their last names unless we were close enough for them to become Aunt/Uncle. However, when some of our younger friends became parents, it irritated me that their kids called us by our first names; there was an even greater age difference between their kids and us than there was between our kids and them, yet they never asked our kids to use their first names and our kids were taught never to do so unless invited.

On the other hand, when my sister and I were kids our parents had a group of friends all of whose kids called the adults by their first names. When my parents divorced and we moved away, there was one friend whom we sometimes saw occasionally and it always felt deliciously daring to use her first name. My mother's friends post-divorce were more conventional and it was also Mr./Mrs.

We had friends when we were younger (before we had our own children) whose kids started out calling their adult friends by their first names, but the parents found that the kids didn't seem to recognize that their friends were due the respect one pays one's elders, so eventually they had their kids use Miss Firstname and Mr. Firstname.

Doctors' offices still irritate me when they use first names, though. I expected that would change when I became visibly older than the receptionists, but it never did. When a doctor comes in and says "Firstname, I'm Dr. So-and-so" I always say, "If you're Dr. So-and-so I'm Mrs. Lastname." A little bit of education re manners is never amiss....

[blazedog]

Could be geographical as well as generational. As a child we would never have thought to call any of the adults in our life anything but Mr. or Mrs. X.

My friends and I continued to call each other's parents by their last names even though OUR kids called us by our first names. :p Not very logical but old habits die hard.

At work in New York, junior staff used to call senior staffers and partners by their last names. Secretaries called ALL the lawyers Mr. or Mrs so it really was a measure of rank. As a secretary my boss was Mr. Ford as were the Senior Editors. I called his graphics assistant by her first name although I don't know whether she asked me to at some point or whether it was that she was younger and more likely to engage in occasional informal chit chat.

In law school we were addressed by our last names by the professors. When I got to California everyone was called by their first name at work regardless of rank although NY was still totally formal. I would suspect NY has loosened since the dark ages when I practiced there.

Calling someone Miss First Name seems weird to me - like something out of Gone With The Wind - aka I don't know nothing about birthing babies Miss Scarlett.

[RiverFarm]

Blazedog, my parents lived on Long Island; I live in southern NJ now. I think it has a lot to do with the dynamics of whatever subculture, either social or work-related, that you find yourself in. Certainly when I was growing up a receptionist or other service person would never call a client or a patient by their first name, but that seems to have changed across the board, at least in the medical profession. Others not so much.

And yes, I think our friends were well aware that "Miss Scarlet" had Southern overtones, but it seemed to them to be an easy way to establish some distance while still being friendly.

[blazedog]

Blazedog, my parents lived on Long Island; I live in southern NJ now. I think it has a lot to do with the dynamics of whatever subculture, either social or work-related, that you find yourself in. Certainly when I was growing up a receptionist or other service person would never call a client or a patient by their first name, but that seems to have changed across the board, at least in the medical profession. Others not so much.

And yes, I think our friends were well aware that "Miss Scarlet" had Southern overtones, but it seemed to them to be an easy way to establish some distance while still being friendly.

Oh I didn't think it was racist (calling someone Miss Scarlett) - just that it would seem weird for me to use it or to hear it used although I understand why it might be used as a half way honorific. Calling adults by their first names (at least here in Los Angeles) is so common that hearing something else would be odd.

But as I wrote, this stuff is hardly logical since I was in my 50's and calling my friends' parents by Mr. Last Name whereas five year olds were calling me Blaze - not that I care particularly in a social situation.

I would think it odd if a receptionist called out a first name and announced a first name. To the best of my recollection, receptionists seem to use Mrs. Last Name - even medical receptionists.

[Blissful_in_TX]

It’s funny b/c a few years ago I was meeting the children (in their early teens) of a guy that DH worked with. His wife introduced me to their children as “Mrs.____”, and then said “Oh, I’m sorry, I should have asked….is that what you would like to go by”.
And I said, “Oh, they can just call me Amy!”
And she kind of turned her head and whispered, “I meant that I didn’t know if you went by your maiden name.”
Boy, I felt stupid :o

Around here I get Miss, Ma’am, Honey, Hon, Sweetie, etc. I never really think about it. The only one I notice is when people who we’ve had a work-related relationship with for YEARS, and they are definitely older than me, continue to call me Mrs.____. Occasionally I’ll chime in with “Oh, it’s Amy”, but that doesn’t change anything…..then DH walks in and it’s always “Hey, Doc!”

[Blissful_in_TX]

And re: holding the door open, around here it is common practice for someone - male or female - to hold the door open.....but then there's often that awkward timing where you're quite a bit behind the first person, so you either have to dramatically pick up your pace or slow it down so they know whether or not to hold the door for you.
And then its really weird at the post office, b/c I would hate for someone to hold the door for me, and then I get in line before them.
Who knew common courtesy was so complicated :D

[PurplePotato]

And then its really weird at the post office, b/c I would hate for someone to hold the door for me, and then I get in line before them.

Then you stand aside and allow them to enter the line before you. :)

[RiverFarm]

That's what I do, too.