Fashion/parenting question

[krhm]

So, DD1, who is experimenting with different fashion looks, wants to save money for a pair of black Doc Marten boots to wear with baby-doll style dresses. She'll be 15 this fall and entering high school for the first time.

I'm all for bucking the trends and finding your own look, especially at 15. But I grew up in a small Southern town in the 1980s-90s, and Docs were associated with skinheads. I realize that was not the case everywhere; in fact, DH had never heard that at all. But I am not fashion conscious enough to know the current scoop on Docs. I'm slightly concerned that DD1's new teachers, many of whom might be my age, may have the same association with Docs, and that is definitely not an impression we want to give.

So I thought I'd present this question here, to a discussion board with geographically diverse participants with more fashion awareness and parenting experience than I have! :p What do you think?

[Gumbeaux]

Personally, I wouldn't go there. The same goes with Confederate flag stuff and things like that.

[zwieback]

When I was in high school and college (88-95), Doc Martin's were something the "alternative"/artsy/punk kids wore. I haven't heard of them being associated with skinheads. That's definitely not the first thing I think of when I think of Doc Martin's.

Personally, with the outfit you described that your daughter wants to wear, I wouldn't worry about it. Sounds just kind of artsy/punk to me. Is she doing this to be part of a crowd or, is she just experimenting with a new fashion? If it's the latter, I definitely wouldn't think twice about it. But, that's just me and I only have younger kids (who have their own clothing issues :rolleyes:).

[1grl1by]

I'm older than you by decades but also the mother of a high schooler, but to me Docs are much more associated with grunge rockers than skinheads.

I see high schoolers wearing them with jeggings/skinny jeans, not so much the dresses anymore.

I would have no problem with my dd wanting a pair.

[Canice]

I (and a lot of other people) used to wear Docs to work in the early 1990s. This was a major, international ad agency in San Francisco. Certainly no association with skin heads there - it was just at a time when an "urban" look was in.

[leebee]

I've been wearing mine since the late '80s, and not anything NEAR a skinhead--it was more an "alternative" thing for me. I still wear them--and so does my mom. I don't see anything whatsoever wrong with them, but if you'd like to further deter her from wearing them, I'd be happy to send a pic of my 40-something self & 70-something mother to show her. We're oh-so-hip.

[Shugness]

When I was in school ten years ago the girls who wore those boots were called the "goths". I don't believe either had any violent tendencies, although they had "dark" personalities. Most of the "goth" kids I grew up with were known drug users and honestly, none have exactly amounted to much in life.

Having said that though, the boots alone wouldn't make me think she's a bad kid or suspect she's up to no good.

[funniegrrl]

Southerner here. Never heard of DMs being associated with skinheads. Always more of an artsy/alternative thing.

Better than asking us, people of different generations scattered all over the country, ask your fellow parents, the teachers, etc. where you are. It's what they are associated with where YOU are, right now, that counts.

[Robyn1007]

A lot of my friends wore them in high school (I couldn't afford them) but none were skinheads. I've never heard of the association.

[tbb113]

I have no thoughts about Doc Martens at all (not even sure I know what they are) :o

When my older son started to grow his hair long at age 15, I did let him know that people will form a first impression based on his looks and it may not be positive. It would then be up to him to prove that the first impression was wrong. He was willing to live with that and only had a few incidents where his hair caused him issues.

[PurplePotato]

I've never heard of that association either. I do agree that they used to be alternative/punk but now I think they are much more mainstream and all kinds of different people wear them.

[Angelina]

Southerner here. Never heard of DMs being associated with skinheads. Always more of an artsy/alternative thing.

Better than asking us, people of different generations scattered all over the country, ask your fellow parents, the teachers, etc. where you are. It's what they are associated with where YOU are, right now, that counts.

Agreed. Here in NYC, they are nothing special. I actually want a pair myself as they seem to be good for cold, wet weather.

That said, and please keep in mind I am not a parent, I would let her buy the boots. They are just boots, after all. If a teacher is going to judge her on her boots while she may be a straight A, well behaved student, then I think the problem is not the boots, but the teacher.

I mean, at least she's not asking for a tattoo or a hot pink mohawk, or she's not exposing her midriff...it's just boots! Well, that's my two cents. :)

[krhm]

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. No one around here wears them, which is one thing that made me wonder. She saw them on a girl at the mall in a different city. We're still in the south, but in a very diverse area; in fact, I can't think of a single neighbor who is a native to this area, so I wanted a broad range of opinions.

Just out of curiousity, I googled it, and according to Wikipedia, skinheads wore them in the 1970s, and then the shoes were more popular with the punk look in the 1980s. I'm not surprised my hometown was behind the times!

Zwieback, it's definitely an experimentation thing. Today I bought her a monocle and an old skeleton key at an antique store, which she turned into a really cute, steampunk-ish necklace.

Leebee, I understand they're very comfortable shoes. I think some of the rainboots are adorable! I also found a picture of Miley Cyrus wearing a pair, so I imagine that she'd be more put off by that than your picture!

Angelina, we've already had the (very short) conversations about piercings and hair dying. I was okay with a few streaks of color, but not dying her whole head blue.

[Robyncz]

Here in Austin, where alt-culture reigns, they are most certainly NOT associated with skin-heads.

The girls I know who wear Doc Martens are the alternative, independent thinkers who are just as likely to have their nose in a book of poetry, playing an electric guitar, or riding a skateboard.

I would have NO problem letting either of my daughters wear them.

[newtricks]

When I saw the thread title I expected micro shorts or cleavage or shorts with writing across the butt. Then I saw it was about Docs - what a relief!!:D

Good for you for being sensitive to sending the wrong message but I think the skinhead thing has been superseded. Sounds like a cute outfit actually. :)

[LakeMartinGal]

My artsy DD2 (now 33) wore them in college, and still wears them in the winter. They're just an oxford-looking shoe. If there's nothing wrong with the rest of the outfit, I'd let her buy them -- they're very practical, actually!

I have a friend who told me once that every generation has to have at least 1 ugly shoe craze! I can remember some pretty ugly shoes in my youth... and most of them have been popular in one iteration or another since then, too!;)

[Goin' Coastal]

I have no thoughts about Doc Martens at all (not even sure I know what they are) :o



Oh - Thank you!! I thought I was the only clueless one!:)

[SusanMac]

I know about the skinhead rep (and several movies about that too), but they're way beyond that. I love the look of Doc's. Glad to hear they are still in fashion!

Consider yourself lucky. I thought this was going to be about hanging out of her blouse (like my neice....but I can't say anything to my DS. It's driving me crazy!! I'll just stick to my mantra: She's not my daughter, she's not my daughter, she's not my daughter)

[Shugness]

Oh - Thank you!! I thought I was the only clueless one!:)

I didn't their name but once I googled them and saw the black boots I recognized them. I can't say for certain that's the name brand the "goth" girls I referenced in my post were wearing, but they looked just like them. Some of the other shoes I saw on their website that weren't black boots actually looked kind of like what the dorky kids would have been wearing.

[jmarie]

When I was in high school and college (88-95), Doc Martin's were something the "alternative"/artsy/punk kids wore. I haven't heard of them being associated with skinheads. That's definitely not the first thing I think of when I think of Doc Martin's.

Same here. In '99 DD went to London and while there purchased a pair that she LOVED...LOVED...LOVED! And it was a grunge look here as well. We live in the South...barely. Had never heard about the skinhead look.

Good luck!

[Beth]

Never heard of a skinhead connection here or when we were in CA. I'd be inclined to think artsy, independent thinking, especially for a girl.

Is she looking at this type
http://www.drmartens.com/images/products/tn/13524410.png

or this type

http://www.drmartens.com/images/products/tn/12891016.png

Either way, I wouldn't have a problem with them.

[Shugness]

For the record, this is what I thought we were talking about, and what the "goth girls" I went to high school with were wearing:

http://www.drmartens.com/images/products/lg/11820007.png

[Blissful_in_TX]

For the record, this is what I thought we were talking about, and what the "goth girls" I went to high school with were wearing:

http://www.drmartens.com/images/products/lg/11820007.png

That's totally the pair I was envisioning.

I never had any - my parents were way too cheap to spring for something like that :p - but a lot of my friends wore them. (Texas, high school in early/mid 90s) They were associated with the alternative, slightly goth, morrissey-listening, type crowd. Not skin-heads by any means.

[leebee]

http://www.drmartens.com/images/products/lg/11820007.png
These are mine! I love them sooooo much. I have seriously had the same pair now for over 10 years. I've put orthotics in them, because my feet got old. And they are awful on ice. But they are my go-to boots with longish skirts & jeans for 8 mos out of the year. FWIW, I do polish mine to keep them shiny & respectable looking. If my now-6 yo DD wanted a pair in a few years, I wouldn't hesitate. But, of course, since Mom has a pair, I'm sure she won't want them!

[Beth]

That's actually what I was picturing too, but I went to find a photo and found a lot of other styles. ;)

[ClaraB]

Growing up in Eastern Canada (in the 80's), Docs were definitely associated with skinheads. DH's father,who was a school principal, wouldn't allow them in his school :eek:. That said, times change, and it might be a better idea to check with other parents in your area regarding Docs' current reputation in your area.

[krhm]

She's trying to decide between the taller boot and the lower one that comes just to the ankle. I think they're cute with dresses; I can't quite picture them with skinny jeans but then I don't really like the skinny jeans look anyway.

I was definitely in the alternative, Morrissey-listening group in high school, but none of us wore them because the skinheads did. It probably started with one person who made the claim and we all just went with it.

If she were in a well-established group of friends and if more people around here wore them, I wouldn't fret this at all. She's starting a brand new school this year, and her best friend and boyfriend won't be there, so she's starting from scratch in a way. I just didn't want her to make a bad impression right off the bat.

Thanks again, everyone!

[hlao23]

Never heard of a skinhead connection here or when we were in CA. I'd be inclined to think artsy, independent thinking, especially for a girl.

Is she looking at this type
http://www.drmartens.com/images/products/tn/13524410.png

or this type

http://www.drmartens.com/images/products/tn/12891016.png

Either way, I wouldn't have a problem with them.

I LOVE that second one! I want it!!!

Anyone remember The Young Ones from early MTV? This is what I picture when I think of docs

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/skinnymojo69/1-0000000.jpg

;)

[mrswaz]

If she were in a well-established group of friends and if more people around here wore them, I wouldn't fret this at all. She's starting a brand new school this year, and her best friend and boyfriend won't be there, so she's starting from scratch in a way. I just didn't want her to make a bad impression right off the bat.

Thanks again, everyone!

I think it's an awesome look, and if no one is wearing Docs at school yet, she could very well be a trendsetter. I would encourage her to wear what she likes and makes her comfortable. I think kids nowadays don't really dress so much according to the social groups we grew up with. Fashion has really become a personal thing that spans different decades. It's so much more exciting for the kids, and honestly, I would worry about sending the wrong message that it matters what other people think about her clothes. If she likes it, that's what matters.

[HejazSunKat]

I had to google 'em too because I'd never heard of a skinhead connection with the brand. If she also wanted to get a tatoo, a weird hairdo and wear a motorcycle jacket or something I'd be more concerned but I think the outfit she's contemplating wearing them with would be a neat juxtaposition of soft and hard textures.

I shouldn't have googled because now I want these: :D


http://a2.zassets.com/images/z/1/2/2/1224076-p-DETAILED.jpg

[Cookin4Love]

I just want to comment on the bigger picture here. I spent my entire career in education working with adolescents or teachers of adolescents, either as a teacher or administrator. As such, I can tell you that most teachers of that age group aren't thrown by kids whose dress is out of the norm or a bit edgy. I would be very surprised if a teacher made a negative judgment about your daughter based on her dress. *Different* is the norm in her age group, although their *different* is often just like their peers--just different from their parents, LOL. Most teachers of her age group learned early in their careers that you get to know the child on the inside, and put more importance on character than on clothing. I'd let her wear what she feels good in, and let others' opinions about her be damned. I wish I'd learned that lesson a long, long time ago instead of spending so much of my life trying to please everyone else, and waiting until I was in my 50s to learn how to please myself. JMHO.

[karen w]

As a mother of 2 1/2 teens (DD is not one yet but might as well be!;)), I would say let her buy/wear them. This is the age when kids are trying to be independent, make their own choices, and their own mistakes if that is the case. As parents, we take so much control over so many aspects of their day to day lives. It gets to the point where you have to know your own child and pick your battles. There are some battles that are just more important than others and IMHO a teen trying to express her individuality and independence by wearing these boots would not be a battle that I would pick. Just my 2 cents.

Karen

[krhm]

Thanks again, everyone. I appreciate all of the advice and thoughts. I was never worried about her going against the trends; she's been doing that for a while, and we do have to negotiate some things (ie, a blue streak in her hair but not dying all of her hair blue).

My only concern about the boots was the possibility that there was a racist/skinhead connection. I was curious to see what a variety of people thought, and my fears have been laid to rest!

[SusanMac]

On that note, krhm, I just got a pink streak in my hair! Not nearly as satisfying as I had hoped. You can hardly ever see it and it doesn't make me feel spunky like I expected. Oh well. Live & learn

[krhm]

SusanMac, that sounds like fun! :) DD1 loved hers (she had blue, pink, and purple, but not all at the same time). We had the hardest time keeping the color in though; it had to be refreshed every 10 days or so. Now that it's pool season, she's not doing anything because of the choloring.

[PurplePotato]

FYI...I dyed all of my hair purple as a teen. Hair can be changed so easily. I really wouldn't worry too much about it.

I turned out just fine. I think. ;)

[Cookin4Love]

On that note, krhm, I just got a pink streak in my hair! Not nearly as satisfying as I had hoped. You can hardly ever see it and it doesn't make me feel spunky like I expected. Oh well. Live & learn


I've got two large streaks of bright purple, and I absolutely love it. I have them placed where they can be invisible or front and center, depending on which side I part my hair on.