spaghetti sauce 2: the sequel

[SandyM]

I'm a die-hard, cook-it-til-it's-dead spaghetti sauce maker, but only on the weekends when I have time. On those weeknights that I'm just too tired to be inventive, I keep jars of Muir Glen pasta sauce on hand. They have several different blends, and I just add my garlic, spices, vegetables, and toss it over some pasta for a quick, easy, and NO FAT meal!

[Laura]

I think my mom's spaghetti is the best in the world and tastes different from any other that I have tried. She adds both cinnamon and sugar to hers. I think it's great.

[lindrusso]

Okay, I'm not sure if you're looking for recipes or commiseration http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif, but I guess I'm throwing more recipes at you. The first one starts out fairly simple, but it can get more complex as you wish. This is based on the sauce from the Fresh Tomato Lasagna from CL in their October 1999 issue.

SAUCE:
4 1/2 cups chopped onion (about 3)
2 cloves garlic, minced
6 cups (about 3 1/2 pounds) tomatoes, chopped, seeded and peeled (or canned equivalent)
1 cup chopped fresh parsley
2 teaspoons dried oregano
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon dried thyme
1/2 teaspoon dried marjoram
1/2 teaspoon black pepper
2 (6-ounce) cans Italian-style tomato paste

To prepare sauce, heat a Dutch oven over medium-high heat until hot. Add the onion and garlic; cover and cook 5 minutes, stirring occasionally. Add the tomato and next 7 ingredients (tomato through tomato paste). Bring to a boil; cover, reduce heat, and simmer 45 minutes, stirring occasionally.

Now, the above is the recipe as they have written it. I cut the onions (it was more like Tomato-Onion sauce with all the onions!) to just one medium-large onion and I upped the garlic. I'm also not a fan of overpowering parsley, so I cut that to 1/2 cup.

I think what makes this sauce for me is two things. I peel and seed the tomatoes - I think you're "anti-peeling", but I just don't like tomato skins floating around and I think that getting rid of some of the seeds and juices helps make the sauce richer. I also think that using TWO cans of tomato paste made it much thicker and richer. Also, depending on how good the fresh tomatoes are that I use, I add a bit of sugar to sweeten the sauce a bit.

Then, I freeze the sauce as is - it really seems much better after it's been around for a while. When I take it out to use, I will add whatever I need to adjust it to a recipe - perhaps wine (red or white), perhaps red pepper flakes for some zip, perhaps fresh herbs from the garden, or maybe some extra-virgin olive oil. Sometimes I'll also add a splash of balsamic vinegar for added interest.

If that recipe doesn't do it for you, this one is very simple - roasting and fresh herbs provide the oomph. However, I tried freezing it once and it seemed to lose ALL the nice "roasted" flavoring, so it's one to use immdediately. It also is not quite as thick and rich as the other sauce.

Roasted Fresh Tomato Sauce
(from Joan Lunden's cookbook)

4 pounds ripe plum tomatoes
1 medium onion, coarsely chopped
8 to 10 garlic cloves, peeled
2 tablespoons extra-virgin olive oil
salt and pepper, to taste
2 tablespoons chopped fresh herbs, optional

1. Preheat oven to 400 degrees.

2. Cut tomatoes lengthwise into quarters and arrange them in layers in a shallow roasting pan. Sprinkle onion and garlic around the tomatoes and drizzle the oil over the vegetables. Roast the vegetables for 50 to 60 minutes or until the tomatoes are lightly browned and the garlic is tender when pierced with a knife. Transfer the mixture, in batches, to a food processor and chop coarsely or puree until fine. Add salt and pepper to taste and chopped herbs.

[Gail]

I give up.

What are you asking us?

[lorilei]

I'm not really sure what I'm asking.

I watched a number of Italian cooking shows over the weekend, and found that most of them were presenting highly simplified tomato sauce recipes, rather than the deep multi-faceted varieties I grew up with. I found this a bit disappointing.

To some extent I'm wondering if I'm nutzo for not appreciating the simplicity of a marinara made with little more than tomato, garlic and olive oil. Maybe searching for an reason to allow this combination to excite me. Maybe I'm just being a disgruntled cook who's looking for a reason to be re-inspired http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

[sneezles]

Do you think maybe that spaghetti sauce in the US has been changed so much from the way Italians cook that you might have the wrong expectations?

Spaghetti in Italy is not served as a main dish but as a side maybe that being the reason for the simple sauce...more to enhance the taste of homemade pasta. And the marinara I posted on the other thread certainly doesn't taste simple!

[Ohioan]

In my family, tomato sauce was referred to by two things: whether it had meat in it, and how long it cooked. Meat-based tomato sauce, in fact, was just called "a sauce." (When we went to the butcher, we asked for "meat for a sauce," and the butcher knew exactly what cuts we wanted and what kind of sauce we were making.) Any variant was specified: "without meat," "marinara," etc. It was assumed that a sauce would cook at least four hours, and sometimes you'd hear sauces referred to as, say, "a six-hour sauce" or "a three-hour sauce" -- the latter with a grimace to show that it was a rushed sauce and still a little raw-tasting, but what can you do...?

The idea was that there should be no in-betweens. Either a long-cooked sauce in which all the flavors deepened and melded, or a "fresh" sauce with all the raw tomato and garlic taste still evident but just starting to blend with the heat. Anything in between was blah -- except for a marinara, which was supposed to be a maverick, and was usually much heavier on the garlic and oregano.

Even now that I've gone meatless, I still refer to my tomato sauce simply as "a sauce," or, after the fact, "a four/five/six-hour sauce."

http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif Phoebe

[venus]

Lorilei,
I'm with you. I have a hard time appreciating sauces that are merely tomatoes oil and garlic, with barely any cooking. They taste like bruschetta topping to me, and the hubby hates them. It seems to me that Americans, with all of our love for speed and ease have sacrificed the flavor that comes with an old world, slow cooked sauce like Phoebe's. Just reading the descriptions is making my mouth water. YUM! I have an urge to go home and cook spaghetti. That is what a sauce should be like, an experience of flavors and full of fresh tomatoes and herbs.

Funny note to all this: If you follow the tomato sauce directions from "the Godfather", the sauce is incredible! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/biggrin.gif

[lorilei]

This thread is inspired by the other spaghetti sauce thread -- but I didn't want to interrupt the giving of recipes just to begin some inane discussion. So, I started a separate thread.

I must say that I've had very little luck with "simple" spaghetti sauce recipes. They always come out tasting a bit too ordinary. No depth. Marinaras drive me batty for this reason.

I'd love to be part of the simplicity.

But it seems that I need some herbs. Some wine. Some oofta. Otherwise, I feel as if I could get the same effect from chopping up some tomatoes over the top of my pasta.

Am I demanding, or what?

[This message has been edited by lorilei (edited 10-04-2000).]

[Ohioan]

Venus, I even made myself hungry for tomato sauce by talking about it! So today, when I was home all day grading papers, I made a lovely five-hour sauce and used it for baked rigatoni with eggplant and mushrooms. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/cool.gif

I love this board. I've always enjoyed good food, but being here has increased my enjoyment of it more than I'd ever have thought possible. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/biggrin.gif

Phoebe

[lisas3575]

Then, I freeze the sauce as is - it really seems much better after it's been around for a while. When I take it out to use, I will add whatever I need to adjust it to a recipe - perhaps wine (red or white), perhaps red pepper flakes for some zip, perhaps fresh herbs from the garden, or maybe some extra-virgin olive oil. Sometimes I'll also add a splash of balsamic vinegar for added interest.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I've been looking for a sauce recipe that uses *fresh* tomatoes and then wondering if it can be frozen since I don't have the equipment or knowledge to do pressure canning. :D

Have you ever used fresh herbs? What's the rule of thumb there?

[lisas3575]

Hi Phoebe!
I scrolled down this thread a little farther and found your interesting post-- I too am meatless and still searching for the anti-simple sauce that will make my spaghetti world famous; I want to use fresh tomatoes and herbs. I love all your talk about a six-hour sauce, care to give up any recipes/pointers?
Lisa

[Leslie w]

I never thought my simple sauce of onions, garlic, tomatoes and basil too boring but I guess tomato sauce is like a glass of wine. If it tastes good to you than it is good. My husband is not an herb person, hates oregano and just tolerates basil. I have to be careful what I put in it. I am tempted to try a more "herby" sauce and I may venture in that direction soon as I feel I need to be more adventurous in my cooking but I'll have to keep my old standby on hand to please my hubby and two year old.

Incidentally, while I love to slow cook my sauce, for those people who don't have the time, do you think making it in an hour and then refrigerating it overnight would have the same benefits as slow cooking, or is it the long heating process that makes all the difference. I think Alton Brown should do a show on spagetti sauce.

[AD]

You may think I'm crazy, but onions, garlic and spices make me nauseated and cause terrible digestive problems for me. I mix half a 6-oz. can tomato paste with one 15-oz. jar crushed tomatoes, and I stir in some basil. Then, I microwave a minute or two. It tastes better to me than any other sauce I've had, especially the jar varieties. The best part is that there is little clean-up and it only takes a minute to make.

[Ohioan]

Originally posted by lisas3575
Hi Phoebe!
I scrolled down this thread a little farther and found your interesting post-- I too am meatless and still searching for the anti-simple sauce that will make my spaghetti world famous; I want to use fresh tomatoes and herbs. I love all your talk about a six-hour sauce, care to give up any recipes/pointers?
Lisa

Well, I really don't have a recipe, since I cook my sauce by the pinch-and-handful method. But I'd say start with peeled tomatoes (seedless or otherwise is up to you), chopped as small as possible, with all their juices (you can even puree them in a blender or food processor). Saute a bit of garlic in a small amount of olive oil until it's golden; I use halved cloves, which yield a more mellow flavor than chopped or minced, and which will eventually disintegrate in the sauce. If you like the sweetness of onion in your sauce, add some very thinly sliced onion to the garlic. (My mother puts in a whole, peeled onion, and takes it out of the sauce after an hour or two.)

Then throw in the tomatoes and add your herbs and spices to taste (not much help here, am I?). I use salt, crushed red pepper, cracked black pepper, a bay leaf or two, basil, oregano, and marjoram (the last three in about a 4:2:1 ratio), and sometimes a bit of fennel seed, to give the sauce a "sausagey" taste. Then add enough water to make it very soupy, and set it cooking over low heat. Every hour or so, give it a good stir, and add water as necessary if it begins cooking down too much. Start tasting it after the second or third hour, so you can adjust your seasonings. I usually take out the bay leaf after three hours.

The longer the sauce cooks, the richer the flavor will become. Good luck!

Cheers,
Phoebe

[emilycat]

Phoebe,

I've only ever cooked my tomato sauce for as long as an hour, and I'd really like to try your method -- one question, though. Are you using dry or fresh herbs?
Also, I loathe, hate, disgust, makes me want to hurl (okay, tell us how you really feel, Emily?) fennel and anise and tarragon. Does that flavor morph into the "sausagey" flavor in the sauce, or does it still taste fennel-y?

[lindrusso]

Originally posted by lisas3575
Have you ever used fresh herbs? What's the rule of thumb there?

Hi Lisa - I do use fresh herbs when available. When using dried herbs, I put them in at the beginning. When using fresh herbs, I put them in at the end for maximum flavor and color. From what I've read, that's the general rule of thumb.

Phoebe - Thanks for the tip on using halved cloves. I have often found the minced garlic too strong and a bit bitter. I will definitely try this next time.

Now I just need to find some good, fresh tomatoes - my tomatoes look very sad!

[Jewel]

Originally posted by lindrusso

Now I just need to find some good, fresh tomatoes - my tomatoes look very sad!

Alton Brown finally gave me permission to enjoy canned tomatoes a few months ago! He finally did a show on nothing but canned tomatoes, and he said that unless you've got PERFECT raw tomatoes, canned tomatoes are actually preferrable, especially in a dish that has to have 'depth' like sauce! I don't feel a bit bad now when I open a can.

And by the way, I was raised in central California by an Arkansas mom, but for some reason we always called any pasta sauce 'Red Sauce'. That's what I call it also! To me, that means a slow-cooked Marinara with maybe Italian Chicken Sausage or Ground Beef tossed in...maybe. Most of the time, it's meatless! Usually served as a side, not as a main dish. Regional differences, huh??
:p

[beejayw1]

Gosh, folks! What a post to run into when you're hungry and mulling over a low-cal lunch. (Yes, pasta can be low-cal, and I make a pretty decent sauce, myself, but they sure don't have it where I work!)

Now I need to go home tonight and cook up a big pot of sauce!

[lindrusso]

Originally posted by Jewel
Alton Brown finally gave me permission to enjoy canned tomatoes a few months ago! He finally did a show on nothing but canned tomatoes, and he said that unless you've got PERFECT raw tomatoes, canned tomatoes are actually preferrable, especially in a dish that has to have 'depth' like sauce! I don't feel a bit bad now when I open a can.

You're right Jewel, I have read that as well. I guess last year I had a bunch of tomatoes to use up, so sauce was a good way to make sure they got used. And since I won't be getting many out of the garden this year, I'd be better off saving the fresh ones to be enjoyed how they are best - in their raw, naked, purest form!

[Ohioan]

Originally posted by emilycat
Phoebe,

I've only ever cooked my tomato sauce for as long as an hour, and I'd really like to try your method -- one question, though. Are you using dry or fresh herbs?
Also, I loathe, hate, disgust, makes me want to hurl (okay, tell us how you really feel, Emily?) fennel and anise and tarragon. Does that flavor morph into the "sausagey" flavor in the sauce, or does it still taste fennel-y?

Hmm... the first question is easier to answer than the second. I mostly use dried herbs, although I can sometimes find some nice fresh basil at the local store. But even my dried herbs are pseudo-fresh (like a "pseudo-vegetarian"?;)), since I replace them every six months from Penzey's.

As for the fennel, it's hard for someone who likes fennel to advise someone who gags on it. If you do use it at all, you'll probably want to use the ground variety, rather than the whole seeds, so you won't bite into a seed by accident and return all the sauce you've eaten to the plate whence it came. (How's that for a convoluted sentence?) What you might do the first time is cook a little of the sauce separately in a small pot, using a touch of fennel in it. Then, if you find the fennel-sauce too much for you, you won't have to dump out the rest of the sauce.

Better yet, get someone else to make some sauce with fennel, and try a spoonful. Try not to make too much noise if you then have to run to the, ah, facilities and dispose of what you've ingested.

Ain't it great to be an English professor?:p

Cheers,
Phoebe

[venus]

Let me just say that Phoebe's tomato sauce is phenomenal. I learned to cook tomato sauce after reading her post. I don't use fennel because a) I don't like fennel and b) I don't like sausage, so there's really no loss for me. I have been using the Muir Glen Fire Roasted Tomatoes in a can for the sauce and they are soooo good!