%*$#@&!!!

[lisas3575]

I'm getting ready to throw a bread tantrum! I keep making loaf after loaf of hockey pucks, or craters, or gnarly breads. Everything I try differently results in yet another inedible disaster.

I thought I'd try my stupid bread machine yet again, this time for dough only, and it didn't rise. I also took King Arthur's advice on checking the dough as it kneads and adding to it what it needs. I followed the CL recipe exactly, and the dough was a sticky mess! I ended up adding at least another 1/2 C. flour, and it's still sticky. It's in the oven now, but I'm so disgusted I may not even slice it.

My yeast is new, my water was lukewarm, my flour is new... and I want to throw myself on the floor and bang my fists. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

(OK, I'm done ranting now.)

[BlueMoose]

Is there something wrong with your bread machine?:confused:

[lisas3575]

Nope, there's just something wrong with me. :o :p

They turn out bad when I make them by hand, too.

[Mandy]

Maybe you should try a loaf of very simple white bread, with as few ingredients as possible. Then if that comes out alright, you know it's something your adding. If it doesn't come out, then you know it's your bread machine. Or maybe try a bread mix, see if that comes our properly. That should help you determine if it's your machine.

Just a thought.

[kgraham]

I don't know if any of these tips will help (maybe you've already seen them from another source)....an episode of Breaking Bread with Father Dominic recently aired that went over common problems with baking bread. The one thing I remember clearly from the show was that water temperature is very important...since seeing the show, I always check my water temperature with a thermometer.

http://www.breaking-bread.com/tipsarchive.htm

[wallycat]

You said your yeast is new....but that doesn't necessarily mean anything...where did you get the yeast from...how long did THEY have it and how did they store it?? Forgive these instructions if you've already tried this, but may I suggest:
1. Take your yeast and place in a glass
2. fill the glass up with some water...maybe 1/2 cup or so....
3. stir your mixture and add some sugar/sweetener--small amount.
4. Let sit out on the counter and see if you get foamy glob and yeasty smell, or if it sits there with cloudy water.

If no foamy glob and yeasty smell, i"m sure you've figured out where the problem is:D
If it is...check your flour again...is it high gluten flour?? or if not, are you adding gluten to it (Vital gluten)...and if you are adding, are you sure it is Vital Wheat Gluten and not something else like vital wheat or ??
Then, is your home warm or not? If all of the above are OK, you could turn your oven on till it just gets warm, then turn it off and if it is slightly warmer than room temperature, place your bowl of dough in there to see if it rises--or get an electric blanket/heater and turn it to very low, cover bowl and set on heater.
Also, limit salt....if you have softened water, you may be adding enough salt to inhibit a rise...
Let us know what happens with above info and we'll figure this mess out....
good luck:D
(my first loaf took 2 hours to bake and it was still raw!:o )

[Kjente2]

another important thing is humidity..remember that flour is for lack of a better word at the moment, porous, it absorbs water, which is why bakers will put in weights of dry ingredients and tell you that measurements are close..I made some rolls for Xmas that I ended up adding at least a cup and I think closer to 2 cups more flour to get it to feel right...sorry, i can 't help you with the machine part of it...but my guess is that this is part of it. Not that it will make you feel any better, but I have a friend that always says and its true...cooking is an art, baking is a science..so don't beat yourself up, just have fun with it and have a few laughs about it if you can.

[vbak]

I am so sorry to hear of your bread woes. I hate to say this, but I use my machine all the time to knead and rise dough without a problem. I use bread flour and bread machine yeast that comes in a jar. There must be something wrong your machine; maybe it is not maintaining a proper temp. Is the machine new? If it is maybe you can return it. I would assume that you added liquid first, then flour, sugar and yeast last? You said luke warm water. Maybe it is not hot enough. I feel so bad for you and your repeated trials. :mad: Vicky

[lisas3575]

I've about decided that I've gotten the water too hot most of the time. I'm going to try the suggestion of testing my yeast, and also using a thermometer, and see if I can get it to foam.

I really do appreciate all you guys' support! I was so cranky, and now I'm not. :D

xxoo

[vbak]

Good luck. Vicky

[Peeps]

I just wanted to add that if you're using a bread machine you shouldn't have to worry about the temp of liquids at all. I never worry about the temp of water, milk, etc. - I throw in cold, room temp, etc. and it always works fine. The yeast will still rise, the bread machine warms things up a bit to speed it up. I only worry about temp if I'm doing something by hand and even then I never use a thermometer and just try to err on the side of too cool rather than too hot as only too hot will kill it.

[wallycat]

soooooo????????? are the yeasties alive?????:D

[Personal Chef]

Did you try bread flour? I always use bread flour even if the recipe does not call for it. I have the Breadman Plus machine. It's about 5 years old. The only time my bread does not turn out is because of my error so I'm also wondering if your machine is faulty. I also do not worry about the temp of liquids or softening butter. The machine takes care of it. Just because your yeast is new doesn't mean it's active. If you can't get the proofing process right I'd buy more yeast and give that a try.

[Peggy C.]

Do you feel better?

Atleast you try, I'm very intimidated by bread, but I keep swearing I'm going to try it soon. Ah but my oven is broke and I won't beable to do it this weekend.

[MusicMom]

I, too, was frustrated the first few times I used my machine because it was supposed to be so simple. I had trouble figuring out how to get the dough the right consistency and whether to add more water or more bread flour. Then I purchased a couple of bread mixes (just add water!). The mixes gave me an idea of what the dough should look like when it's mixing/kneading. I realized that I had to measure the water extremely carefully.

Do you have a friend with bread machine experience who could take a look at it?

[Nanci]

I just wanted to encourage you to try the tips and stick with it! I can emphathize because sometimes my bread turns out perfect and some times it's a little dense or a low riser. Lots of things affect the bread as people mentioned -- the humidity, some variations in the amts of ingredients. I have also found that adding vital gluten helps with whole wheat loaves.

[AD]

I have just the opposite problem, and it upsets me just as much! My breads rise way too high. (If you have ever seen the "I Love Lucy" episode where Lucy makes bread, I can indentify with her problem!) I usually refrigerate my dough overnight, since I do not have the consecutive time and do not use my bread machine for baking. Some people say this slows the rise. I can open the refrigerator an hour later, and that dough is nearly 4 times as big!

I've tried doing it all at once at room temperature, and I still struggle with the problem. Using all whole wheat bread (without added gluten) is perfect for me. When I make bagels, I have to cut the yeast to 1/8 teaspoon per 3 cups flour!

I do prefer very dense bread personally so perhaps a "normal" rise looks big to me. I've made bread without any yeast or leavening and it was wonderful to me.

[luv2cook]

I've been making bread for 2 years now and still have trouble at times - sometimes the loaf just does't rise all the way and the break is hard to cut. Sometimes it's very moist and doughy but cooked. I have figured out it just depends on what ingredients are there.

I make this honey mustard bread that's awesome but awful to cut and sometimes, while it's cooked, it's holey in texture. Have patience. You'll get it. I suggest using the dough cycle first and then let it rise and then bake it yourself. See if that works...

What I do is 5 min. b4 it's ready to come off dough cycle, I heat the oven up. When it gets to 115, I shut the oven off and put the bread in the bread pan and cover w/a towel and let it rise for an hour, then I bake at 350 for 35 min...

[Curleytop]

Just out of curiosity, what brand of yeast are you using?
I have been using a breadmachine for years, (I am on my 2nd one) and I also make yeast coffee cake by hand.
I LIKE RED STAR ACTIVE DRY YEAST.
If the recipe calls for FAST ACTING YEAST OR BREADMACHINE YEAST, they are INTERCHANGABLE!
I buy my yeast in bulk in Costco, leave out a small jar in the fridge, and freeze the rest.
Be sure to test your yeast, I got stuck with some that was not good too, (in the little envelopes).
Keep us posted!

[karole]

i've been making bread for i guess --50 years or more==mostly exclusively with out buying any bread--then when i was working i taught my husband--& he took over--but---what the heck is vital gluten & where do you get it & why? i only just saw it mentioned on the flour bag. my bread is always different--julia says you can't hurt dough--but of course we are always looking for perfection--best of luck, & keep at it

[KimKelly]

Ahhhh.. .Bread woes! I've been there, and still go there sometimes. I always used bleached bread flour I got in bulk at Costco and did fine. Then I started getting the King Arthur catalogue and they all say to use "unbleached" flour. So I got what I figured was the best, and ordered some of King Arthurs bread flour. I didn't get a single good loaf out of it from my machine. I did ok by hand, but not in the machine. I was beginning to think that there was something wrong with the machine, even called the company. I made one last loaf with the Costco "junk" that I had left and my loaf was beautiful! I'm not sure why.... but some flours work great, others, don't. Try using some different brands and see what works for your machine - and you!

I sure hope you don't give up... there is nothing better than that just out of the oven smell of bread thru the house.

Good luck!
Kim

[lisas3575]

An update! The rosemary bread rose while it was baking, and turned out to be ok. A bit chewy, but it's a new-to-me recipe so I'm not sure if the texture was off or not. We did enjoy it, and it didn't go into the trash. :)


Originally posted by wallycat
You said your yeast is new....but that doesn't necessarily mean anything...where did you get the yeast from...how long did THEY have it and how did they store it?? Forgive these instructions if you've already tried this, but may I suggest:
1. Take your yeast and place in a glass
2. fill the glass up with some water...maybe 1/2 cup or so....
3. stir your mixture and add some sugar/sweetener--small amount.
4. Let sit out on the counter and see if you get foamy glob and yeasty smell, or if it sits there with cloudy water.

Guess what I got-- a cup of cloudy water. :( I guess that answers my woes, huh? I store my yeast (Bob's Red Mill) in a Rubbermaid container in the door of my freezer, did that kill it?

Other interesting things of note... I ran the tap water until it felt just warm over my hand, figuring I'm 98.6° so that would make it 100-105°, right? Wrong. Stuck a thermometer in there and it was 75°! I must have cold blood.

Originally posted by luv2cook
What I do is 5 min. b4 it's ready to come off dough cycle, I heat the oven up. When it gets to 115, I shut the oven off and put the bread in the bread pan and cover w/a towel and let it rise for an hour, then I bake at 350 for 35 min...

Luv2cook-- I know that all machine's are different, but are you saying you do yet another rise after it comes out of the machine? My machine says it does 2 rise cycles. I was expecting it to double in the bread machine pan, but it didn't, so I'm wondering if I'm supposed to do my own rise out of the machine. :confused:

[lisas3575]

Originally posted by lisas3575
Guess what I got-- a cup of cloudy water. :(

I spoke to soon!!! I have a foamy glob! I have a foamy glob! Lookit meeeee! I have a foamy glob!! :D :D :D

[vbak]

Lisa, when you use just the dough setting it takes about 90 min. It will need it , rise, punch, etc. When the beeper goes off take the dough out knead it a FEW times, and put into prepared pans. Let rise til double in bulk and then bake. I make my mom's bread like yhis all the time. I made some yesterday and it was delicious. Reread the instructions. You may be making a mistake somewhere along the line. Liquids first, salt, bread flour, sugar yeast on top. Press start and it should start. Vicky Don't give up .

[lisas3575]

Thanks, Vicky! I have a loaf of plain white bread dough going now, so I will give that a shot. Wish me rots of ruck.

[lisas3575]

My basic white bread turned out pretty good! I'd give it an 8/10 or so. Thanks, Vicky, that additional rise really helped.

The recipe called for the loaf to be baked in a 425° oven for an hour, which i did, but the loaf itself is a bit crumblier(?) inside than I would have liked, even though the crust is really good. When I sliced it, the knife got gummed up on the inside. I'm wondering if I lowered the temperature if it would help the texture. I like a good solid bread, but not dense. This was kind of mooshy. Make any sense?

Thanks for the input!

[beccathebaker]

Hi Lisa-
Did you let the bread "rest" for a while after taking it out of the oven? If I cut into a loaf immediately after taking it out, it is usually still cooking inside and a bit "gummy" like you described.
It is the HARDEST thing to do when you have a wonderfully smelling hot loaf fresh from the oven, but try waiting at least 10 minutes-a half hour and you will be surprised at how much better the texture of your loaf is.

Becca

[lisas3575]

I did, but maybe not long enough. I only sliced off one piece, do you think the rest of the loaf will firm up or did I let all the heat out?

[LaraW]

The texture will probably improve as the bread cools. That's been my experience. ALso, if you have one, you might try an electric knife to slice the bread, as you don't have to push down quite so hard and squish it together to get your knife to go through it.

[beccathebaker]

Yes- the I agree with Laura- the texture will improve. It's okay that you sliced one piece- how could you not :)!!!

I have found that it is nearly impossible to overcook my breads- undercooking is usually more of an issue for me. The bottom tapping doesn't always assure a complete bake.

Another VERY handy tip is - when the bread is done, turn off the oven and leave the loaf in the oven (on the stone if you have one) with the door slightly ajar for about 5-10 minutes. This REALLY develops the crust so nicely.


Becca

[vbak]

When the bread is done, I slip it out of the pan and put the loaf right onto the oven rack for about 5 more minutes of baking. This helps to dry it out. So much steam is created during baking that the crust is a little damp. It sounds like maybe you are making progress. Good for you!:D Vicky

[stomkow]

remember to spoon your flour into the measuring cup, don't scoop... you will get more flour than required and your bread will be more dense...

baking is more precise/scientific than cooking, measure your ingredients carefully

I hope this helps you too....

[Curleytop]

First of all, DO NOT STORE THE YEAST YOU ARE GOING TO USE IN THE FREEZER. Keep a small jar in the fridge, and refill it now and then when it is getting low. Perhaps your yeast is too cold.
Next, when you do dough method, and then bake your bread in the oven, USE AN INSTANT READ thermomiter jabb it in the center of the bread, it should be 190°!!! If it is not, bake it longer!
What brand is your Breadmachine? If you continue to have trouble, call their 800# and see if they can solve your problems!:D

[lisas3575]

What a great group of friends I have! I am a lucky woman! I love you guys.
xxoo

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bacio.gif

[Anne]

Hi Lisa. It sounds like you are getting your bread to come out better each time. I still use the regular bread yeast as opposed to the instant or bread machine varieties because I like the texture better. However, using this slower yeast means I have to not follow the directions for my machine. First I add the warm water to the bread bucket and then sprinkle the yeast on top. I let this sit for 5 or 10 minutes to proof. Then I add all the ingredients but only about half the flour and let this run halfway through the first kneed cycle to get a sponge. Then I unplug my machine and let the sponge sit in a warm place for half an hour or so. I add the rest of the flour and run the machine through the entire dough cycle. When that is finished I remove the dough, let it rest 5 minutes, shape, let rise till double or so in bulk, then bake in the oven. This is a bit time consuming compared to the standard method with bread machine yeast but I really like the flavor and texture produce this way. Good luck.

[Gracie]

I make bread exclusively on the dough setting and bake in my oven.

You definitely need to shape it and let it rise a second time in your pan (or on your stone). The dough setting on machines only has 1 rise - usually - so read your manual.

I also agree with Peeps - I have never tested the temperature of any of my ingredients, this means eggs, water, milk, etc. Everything is always great.

The one thing I would add to this thread is to build on stomkow's suggestion to spoon your flour into the measuring cup. You'll see these directions for measuring flour on the top of every KA flour bag:

Fluff up the flour before you put it in the measuring cup with a large spoon. Dig it up all around in the container so that some air gets into it. Flour settles during shipping. Never scoop it out with your measuring cup. Lightly shake it off your spoon into the cup - never pack it in. Let it fill higher than the cup and take a straight edged knife and scrape straight across the top of the cup to level.

Measuring EVERYTHING in making bread is so important. When measuring liquid, put it in the cup and let it sit long enough so it's not moving around anymore. When it's calm, make sure that the liquid is exactly on the line. If you have to add more or pour some out, let it sit long enough not to move again before you decide if it's on the line again.

Your bread will keep getting better! My first wheat loaf was a real brick!! :)