introduction and a few (stupid) questions

[sqntyeyes]

hi
i've never posted yet on this site, but after reading a few longish threads i've gotten the feeling that you all are rather cheery, which makes this seem a lot less intrusive...well, hope everyone had as happy a holiday as they should have had...
anyways, i'm a complete NOVICE cook, and attempted to make bread, (yes, quite stupid eh?) which turned out like a small dense rock...quite inedible, anyways, i thought the problem might have been that my warm water wasn't warm enough, and my dough wasn't elastic before I set it out to rise...but then again, i dont really know anything haha...basically, can anyone tell me what would make bread light and large? maybe my dough was too heavy, i didn't use bread flour? and it was a mixture of half all purpose flour and half wheat
well, thanks
-jf

[TLee4]

I will leave it to the bread bakers to answer your questions (and I know they will know the answers. They know everything!) I just wanted to welcome you to the BB. Yes, it is a cheery place!

Terri

[Tiger]

Welcome jf. I have the same question as you. I tried to make rolls for Christmas and didn't even serve them. I used warm milk and honey. I added the yeast and it said to wait 5 minutes to foam. It never formed so I figured that was my problem. I made them anyway I they came out as hard rocks. :(

[Gail]

I don't bake bread frequently enough to give you a concrete answer. The fact that you state your dough wasn't smooth and elastic suggests to me that it wasn't kneaded enough, for one thing. The fact that you made some substitutions (half and half flours) could also have contributed to the problem. A good site for you to bookmark (even those of us who've cooked a fairly long time) is Cook's Thesaurus, which can give you guidelines for adjusting your recipes if you need to make substitutions. That's www.foodsubs.com .
Besides the aforementioned, I have no idea if your yeast was okay or issues of water temperature could also be factors (Yes, your water may not have been warm enough, but similarly it's possible to kill yeast if the water is too hot.) www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos.cgi/53135.3.1994125666313458141for King Arthur Flour Company is another site which may be of some help to you with tips, questions and answers, products and recipes.

Just so you know, things tend to be very quiet around here during the holidays and weekends. If you don't get many responses, try "bumping your topic up" by posting an answer to your own thread (we usually just type "bumping this up" to bring your question back to the top of the list.) There are a lot of people here who do tremendous amounts of bread baking (whereas I haven't in quite a while) whom I'm sure can give you pointers.

Good luck!

[Dewey]

Welcome jf! I'm no expert on baking, but DH and I do bake read regularly. We've had a few loaves of "brick bread" as we like to call it, but have mostly mastered it these days (except for when DH loses count of how many cups of flour he's put in:rolleyes: ) Anyway, did you test the temp of the water with a thermometer? It needs to be around 100-110 degrees, which is actually much warmer than many people realize. Also, make certain you stir (fluff) up your flour before measuring it, or you will end up with too much flour, which could also give you a very dense loaf.

I'm certain others will have more tips (and more helpful tips:D )

[Kjente2]

lets start with yeast and move from there. You want to proof the yeast before you move on. Did you mix the yeast with the warm water and wait to see if it started to kind of churn a bit after 5 minutes or so? If the water is too hot, you will never see this action as the yeast is dead. I never measure temp, I test water temp on my wrist like testing a baby's bottle.
Post your recipe and we'll talk more

[Svadhisthana]

Here are a few tips:

If you are unsure about your water temperature use a thermometer(I've been baking bread for years and I still use one 99% of the time). Keep the water temperature below 115 ( I prefer 110 and below) Water that is cold will activate yeast, it will just do so more slowly. The slow rise and cold water are used when making artisan breads.


To find out if your yeast is "alive" you can toss a pinch of sugar in with the warm water and in about five minutes the yeast will become frothy.


When adding whole wheat flour to a bread recipe it's best to use no more than half whole wheat flour called for in the recipe and to use bread flour for the rest. The high gluten in the bread flour counteracts the low gluten in the whole wheat.


Bread that has been kneaded enough will feel similar to the lower portion of your ear lobe. You can also pinch off a small amount and stretch it until it is somewhat transparent- Properly kneaded bread will have a "veining" running across the surface.


You will find more information in the monthly bread thread. This months was started by Greysangel so you can narrow your search and use both the title "December Bread Thread?" and her name in the search function found at the top of the screen.


You can find more useful information at www.kingarthurflour.com (look for the Forums), www.baking911.com and at http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/bread/index.html


I hope that helps. Welcome to the boards!


Crystal

[HejazSunKat]

Originally posted by sqntyeyes
i've gotten the feeling that you all are rather cheery, which makes this seem a lot less intrusive...


Hi jf! You are not intrusive. This forum is for everybody. You've already gotten some great answers and resources to check out for your bread question. I've learned a few things too! If you're really interested in bread baking I would suggest you keep an eye on the monthly bread threads that will be popping up which is where the nitty gritty of bread baking gets discussed in detail. I've not yet posted to those myself, only lurked and picked up a great deal of information as well as courage to try my own bread experiments. Just wanted to say glad you're here and hope you enjoy the boards. :)

[beckms]

If your yeast didn't foam, then it wasn't any good! The foam means it's alive, which means it will produce the carbon dioxide necessary to create the lovely pockets of air that make bread fluffy.

More experienced bakers may have more advice, but I say, try it again!

And welcome!:)

[sqntyeyes]

thanks everyone!
the thing is, i don't have a thermometer, so i was just wondering if there was a way to measure the temp through how much time after it boiled?
i think i didn't knead enough, but i'm of a rather hugely impatient nature and i wasn't seeing any progress with the dough
well, i'll try again tonight
thanks

[Leisa M]

Buy an instant read thermometer. They are not expensive and will tell you exactly how hot/cold your water is.

I also recently got "Breads fom Betsy's Kitchen" by Betsy Oppenneer. This is a very informative cookbook with lots of tips on flour, utensils and etc. I recommend it highly. I have not made anything from it yet, but the information was great! There was even a troubleshooting table in the back.

Good luck with your bread.

:)

[Svadhisthana]

Originally posted by sqntyeyes

the thing is, i don't have a thermometer, so i was just wondering if there was a way to measure the temp through how much time after it boiled?


You don't need to boil the water at all. If you have good qaulity tap water you can use it. The water will feel warm (not hot) on your wrist. Good Luck!

[Chiffonade]

...i'm a complete NOVICE cook, and attempted to make bread, (yes, quite stupid eh?)...which turned out like a small dense rock.

Quite stupid, no. Bread is one of those things you develop a "hand" for. You need to touch, knead, breathe in the dough. Does it feel soft, pliable? Does it spring back to your kneading? Does it smell yeasty and rich? Eventually, you'll learn to recognize these signs.

First - don't use the measurements provided in the recipe as law. Bread is "relative." If it's very humid, the bread might require more flour, if it's very dry where you are - maybe less. Bread dough should feel supple and slightly moist. Don't add so much flour that the dough doesn't stick to your hands at all or you wind up with another one of those little rocks.

Knead, knead, knead, knead and then knead some more. Five to seven minutes with the heel of your hand (a frisage) Use high-protein flour - bread flour - and your dough will have elasticity. The very thing you don't want in a pie dough or cooky, you do want in bread dough - fibers. These elastic bands trap the air and make the bread rise. By the time you finish kneading it, you should have: a) a uniformly smooth surfaced dough i.e. baby's bottom; b) toned forearms; and c) a completely calm demeanor. It's very therapeutic.

Do not raise the dough in a very hot place thinking you will hasten the process. You'll kill the yeast and it won't work at all. You can't rush bread. Time = flavor.

Bread is best baked at very high temperature (475 or so) in a thoroughly preheated oven. After rising, shaping, etc. paint the dough with egg wash, slit the dough just prior to placing it in the oven and spray the oven walls with water. Close the oven immediately. Wait 3 minutes. Spray oven walls again. Continue baking till done (prescribed by recipe). Husband recommends internal temperature be 190 to 210. Use an instant read thermometer to measure temp. Cool the bread on a rack so air can circulate around it, then it won't get soggy. While it's cooling, you should hear crackling. This is the music of the bread baker.

[Laura B]

Originally posted by sqntyeyes
the thing is, i don't have a thermometer, so i was just wondering if there was a way to measure the temp through how much time after it boiled?


If you boiled the water, you probably killed your yeast by using the water before it had cooled down enough (that would be why your yeast never foamed up). I encourage you to get a thermometer! And, as mentioned already, you don't have to boil the water.

I am new to bread baking, too, and am having fun learning! Welcome!