Veteran bread bakers -- help

[junietoo]

I'm running into a problem with my french bread that maybe someone can help me with. I've been making bread without a machine for 30 years, but only tried french bread once -- it was a disaster. Then, last year I acquired a Zojirushi V20 and began letting the blades do the work. I started some sourdough starter and began turning out french bread on the dough cycle with a great deal of success. Then something strange began to happen. When the loaves were on the final rise, the surface would split (I call it a "blow-out") and the loaf would lose it's shape. The final product tasted good but I had to avert my eyes to cut it up. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/redface.gif If I added more flour in the mixing cycle, the bread lost it airiness. I even tried making new a fresh sourdough starter and that didn't help. I'm about to give up on sourdough french bread. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/frown.gif

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

[This message has been edited by junietoo (edited 12-06-2000).]

[sneezles]

junietoo
Sorry, I have no advice to give but thought I'd bump this up so maybe someone else might help. I have never used sourdough starter.

[RobinC]

Give King Arthur Flour's web site a try. They may not have the answer to your specific question currently on the site, but there is a contact page where you can submit questions.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos/03166.3.088527600512823546

Good luck!

[Beth]

Are you baking the bread in the machine or shaping it and baking it on a sheet or stone? I can't answer this off the tope of my head, but I'll think and look in my several bread books. If you're baking it in the machine, I don't know how helpful they will be.

[junietoo]

I shape and bake on a stone. The dough is not too soft, but nice and springy when I take it out of the machine. It seems to form into a loaf nicely with a rounded, tucked-in look. But about an hour into the rise (I cover it with plastic that is supported by a frame and doesn't touch the dough), the surface kind of rips and it ends up looking like a Mt. St. Helens eruption out the side.

[Beth]

Do you score or slash the top of the loaf? That gives the loaf a place to release in a more predictable and usually more attractive manner.

Are you using a continuing starter, or do you start new each time? Either way, you could have more activity in the yeast, either from measuring a little more generously or from your starter getting more active as it ages, perhaps even picking up more airborne yeast from your continuing baking, especially if you bake frequently. If that seems likely, try cutting back a little or your yeast or starter (if it's the starter, you may need to adjust your liquid and/or flour to compensate)

If it popped open in the oven, I was going to suggest checking your oven temp, which make me wonder if there has been a seasonal change in the temp in your kitchen or where ever you place the loaf to rise. Hope one of those helps.


[This message has been edited by Beth (edited 12-09-2000).]

[sneezles]

junietoo
I'm getting a bit confused, after re-reading all the replies and this morning reading some bread machine recipes. Is the Zojirushi V20 a bread machine? And you're making the dough in this machine? While, I have never made sourdough, any dough I make in the machine doesn't have an hour's rise time once it is shaped, it's usually about 30-40 minutes. So I was wondering if infact you are letting it rise too much.

[luv2cook]

I can't really comment on the splitting but I can offer support and say that making bread in the machine or not was/is one the most frustrating things I've ever done. I still to this day do not know why some recipes rise nicely and others don't. I know some of it has to do with ingredients but even simple recipes with just dry ingredients, no sour cream, fruit, etc., do no always rise the same which results in either heavy bread or small loaf necessitating the need to make another loaf rather quickly as my hubby and I eat sandwiches every day for lunch...

[junietoo]

Beth: I slash just before I pop in the oven -- the blow-outs occur during the last rise after I form the loaves. Interesting about the yeast. These are long-kept sourdough starters that I use, feed and store. The doughs are pretty slow-rise doughs, as most sourdoughs are. And I watch carefully so that they aren't over-risen. I'm thinking, though that it has to do with the gluten cloak around the formed loaf. I speculate that the machine is not developing the gluten enough. I'm using high-gluten flour, though. I guess I'll keep on trying until I figure it out or it goes away. I'll keep the yeast issue in mind, though.

sneezles: The Zojirushi V20 is a machine and I let it mix, knead and raise the dough through the first and second rises. Then, I remove the dough, form the loaves and raise the third time. My automatic raise cycle is something over an hour. Often, however, the dough has not completely risen, so I just leave it in the machine until it's at the proper stage. As for letting the formed loaves rise too long, that's a thought. Since they are not supported by a pan, maybe I should use a different measure for deciding when they're ready to bake than I do for loaves in pans. Hmmmm....