Bizarre House Problem: Randomly Bursting Windows!

[slknight]

I've got the strangest problem going on in my house. My windows are cracking. About 2 weeks ago, I heard a really loud noise one day but didn't know what it was. Later that day, my friend was here cleaning my house (I pay her) and she asked me if I knew that one of my windows was cracked.

It was a window in the corner almost behind our entertainment center. I hardly ever move that curtain, so I had not noticed. I just thought it was something really weird.

Then last night, we heard another really loud noise. DH said it sounded like a window. Sure enough, one of the other windows in the same corner of the living room on the opposite wall had cracked. The noise wasn't one of glass shattering, because the pieces of glass are still in it. It was like a loud burst. The strange thing is that these are double-paned windows, and it's the inside pane on each that has broken.

Anyone have any ideas? Could it be the extreme cold we've been having (25 below zero windchills)? They are fairly new windows, although I don't know how good the quality is because the previous window had them installed.

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the house settling or some other structural problem? I don't know if just replacing the window is going to solve it. The house is over 30 years old, so you wouldn't think this would be anything new. The other odd thing is that the driveway/asphalt that's pretty much right underneath that window has really swollen lately. We couldn't get the storm door open all the way because the driveway is now higher than it was before. We had to remove the outside door so we could get out.

I'm going to call a window place later today and ask if they have any ideas, but I'm swamped with work.

-Susan

[engineer]

30 year old houses don't settle, they've useally already done that first few years. And for cold well it was -27F when I got up this morning where I'm at and no one at work has ever mentioned broken windows. The clue to me is when you said the asphalt was heaving. It sounds as if water got trapped under there and is freezing and heaving up that side of the house. Do you have a water line that runs under there or a sewer line? It could have cracked and seeped and now it's freezing. I don't like being an alarmist but this could be signs of a serious issue - the structural stability of your house. Please get it checked quickly.

Good luck - I'll be thinking of you

[slknight]

Originally posted by engineer
The clue to me is when you said the asphalt was heaving. It sounds as if water got trapped under there and is freezing and heaving up that side of the house. Do you have a water line that runs under there or a sewer line? It could have cracked and seeped and now it's freezing. I don't like being an alarmist but this could be signs of a serious issue - the structural stability of your house. Please get it checked quickly.



Thanks for your quick response. This is exactly what I was thinking and worrying about.

The weird thing is that we don't have a sewer line (we're on septic), and that's at the back of the house. We do have town water, but I'm not sure where that comes in. I thought it came in more at the front of the house. How would I find this out? (We've only lived here about a year and a half so I don't yet know all the quirks of the house).

Also, who should I call? A contractor? The town water people? A plumber?

Thanks,
Susan

[lindrusso]

Susan,

I've never heard of cracking windows, but we have a burst pipe right now. :( :(

Do you have water? If the water is still coming through your faucets, I don't see how it could be a burst pipe. We have no water at all.

I'd call the water department first and see if they can come out and take a look. If it is a pipe that is about to burst, they can turn the water off - there is a place to do it where it enters the house, but there is also a place near the road where they turned it off for us (they just dug a 3-foot or so hole in our yard).

The water people may tell you to still call a plumber, but at least it's a place to start.

Obviously something is wrong, and you have to start somewhere, so I'd start with the city first. Definitely have it checked, though, it could get a lot worse!

I hope it all goes well for you! Keep us posted.

We are waiting on a plumber to arrive. We did find one place where the pipe burst (our garage door opened last night - we think by itself, so add that to the list of things gone wrong - and it was so cold the pipes froze), but we're hoping that's the ONLY place. We are on a slab and having it burst underneath would be a huge mess and expense! :eek: :eek:

Spring cannot come fast enough for me!!!! :D :(
Alysha

[LauraBL]

Susan-

It might be worth checking to see if the windows are under any kind of warranty. Will your homeowner's insurance cover the costs of fixing the windows and any other work to your house/property?

Laura

[slknight]

Alysha, what a mess! I hope it's not under the slab.

Well, I just called a window place. They acted like I was nuts. And said, well lady, it is cold.:rolleyes:

Then I called the water district. The woman there was much more helpful. She asked me a bunch of questions, but doesn't think it's their problem. She said that if I had a burst pipe coming from the town, or even one with a leak, then I would have water problems in the house. In other words, I either wouldn't have any water or my water pressure would be really low. I haven't experienced either. And if I lose my water, then I will also have no heat, because we have hot-water baseboards.

Not sure who to call next. I left a message with a contractor friend of mine but haven't heard back.

[LauraBL]

Susan-

Any update on your house situation? I sent the link to my handy-man brother and he had these suggestions:

Has your water bill increased?(or perhaps a huge jump in usage on the meter? You probably need to call the water people back about that and also to find out where the water supply enters the house.)

How deep are the footings(foundation) on your house?

Possible Theory: Outside hydrant(perhaps lawn sprinkler not installed deep enough below grade)or water main into house has ruptured and is saturating the soil under that corner of the house. That water is freezing and heaving the corner of the house. The windows might also be shimmied or foamed into place reducing the amount of give.

[slknight]

Hi Laura, thanks for checking with your brother.

Not much new to report here. I spoke to my contractor friend who built our deck this summer. He didn't think that there was a broken pipe.

The water company had told me that I would be having other water problems (low pressure), and I'm pretty sure the pipe goes into the house in a different spot. I also got a water bill very recently, and there wasn't any change.

He did think that it is just a frost heave, caused by water underground freezing and expanding. The water table in our yard is very high. When he built our deck this summer, when he dug the holes for the footings, he hit water about a foot down. Needless to say, our yard is usually fairly swampy.

Anyway, he's coming out here the beginning of next week to look at something else and will look at it then. It's been two weeks in between when the windows broke, so I'm hoping nothing major happens before then. If all the windows in my house start shattering, I'm going to be on the phone with everyone and anyone I can think of!

Thanks to everyone for their help. I'll keep you posted if I find anything else out.

[lindrusso]

Susan - I'm glad to hear that it's most likely not a pipe burst, but it sounds like you'll still have your hands full!

I wonder how they prevent that from happening again if it's something less in your control like the height of your water table? Yikes! Keep us posted. I know I would have been completely perplexed if my windows started randomly shattering - how bizarre! :eek:

Well, after a long day of having men digging a hole in our lawn, repairing a leak, buying a space heater to thaw out the pipes, replacing a busted water meter, and repairing two more leaks, our water is finally back on!! :)

The sound of flushing toilets and running faucets is music to my ears! :)

[Beth]

Do you have double paned windows by any chance? There is a gas layer between the two panes, and temperature changes can cause pressure changes that it bad enough can cause the seal to fail and/or the window to break. Down here, we are more likely to get them breaking from extreme heat, but it stands to reason that extreme cold could do the same sort of thing. It does sound like you have a ground problem in that one spot.

Lindrusso or anyone who gets a frozen pipe (telltale sign is no water in one of more faucets): TURN YOUR WATER OFF at the main supply before it begins to thaw. I had this happen with a house on an elevated foundation up in Dallas -- I had two or 3 frozen spots, but with the faucets where I still had water flowing I was able to draw drinking water and fill my tub and some jugs so I could clean up and flush my toilet until the water could be turned on. When the ice in the pipes begins to thaw and the water pressure builds, that's when you can get leaks or blow outs. That's when you get major damage. I would be surprised if you had a frozen pipe under a slab. More likely is in the attic or an outside wall. Good luck. Hope it is minor.

[slknight]

Originally posted by Beth
Do you have double paned windows by any chance? There is a gas layer between the two panes, and temperature changes can cause pressure changes that it bad enough can cause the seal to fail and/or the window to break. Down here, we are more likely to get them breaking from extreme heat, but it stands to reason that extreme cold could do the same sort of thing. It does sound like you have a ground problem in that one spot.



Yep! Double-paned, and it's the inside one that breaks. Let's hope that it's the gas layer that's causing it, and not major structural problems in my house!

[donleyk]

We had a double pane do this in our house. It was a south facing window and we had installed the replacement so I figured that the window we replaced it with was bigger than it should have been resulting in enough stress to break it, but that was just a guess on my part. We just popped out that half on a mild day and had it fixed at a glass place.

[slknight]

I'm bumping this thread up from last year, because it's happening again.:( I'm hoping somebody might have an idea.

Tonight I heard a loud noise, and I knew instantly that it was one of the windows. :eek: This time it's a window in our bedroom, at the opposite end of the house from the ones that burst last year. Once again, it's the inside pane.

We pretty much ruled out any water problems last year. I think it's most likely caused by a build-up in pressure between the panes but if anyone knows differently, please let me know. :confused: These windows seem to be really cheap and have condensation and frost on them inside the panes. It's below zero again outside and I'm guessing that's got something to do with it.

Fortunately when they burst, the glass doesn't shatter and fall out and make a mess. The pane stays in the window. Even so, I made sure Alex's crib is far away from the windows in his room.

[colleency]

How scary!

We have double paned windows for noise reduction, but we obviously don't have the cold that you do. I don't have any suggestions. My first thought was frozen water under the house, too. It's the driveway that's odd, but I guess they could be two seperate problems.

Good luck!

[VictoriaL]

Susan,
Did you get a structural engineer to look at the problem last year? I asked DH what he thought (being an architect, I figured he might have a few ideas) and he thinks that, unless there are other signs of structural stress in your house (such as cracked plaster walls)it most likely is a window quality problem. Especially since you said that there is frost on the inside of the double-paned window. The temperature difference is what is cracking the inside pane. He said that most good-quality window manufacturers offer decent warranties. Do you know the previous owners of the house and can find out the manufacturer of the windows and the installation date? Then you can check on a warranty. Often, you can find the manufacturer's name on the window (or the screens) itself.

I hope that you can get this cleared up. I hate having "house problems"-- why don't things work smoothly all of the time! It's now 5 degrees out-- I'll be waking up often tonight worrying about the water pipes in my unheated kitchen! :(

[KathrynY]

Susan, I was thinking the same thing as VictoriaL, that hopefully your windows have some sort of warranty on them. I'd definitely call the manufacturer if you can. I'm sorry this is happening to you guys again this year. :( :(

[Beth]

Your comment about the moisture between the panes makes me think it may be a window problem too. I would do what yuo can to find out if there might be a warranty to get them replaced. You could also look on the window frames. Many items are stamped with a manufacture date on the back or along a side. The install date would most often be a couple of months to several months after that, so it could get you in the ballpark.

Another place to look would be in your real estate records. If either you or the selling agent (possibly your realto) kept a copy or the seller's disclosures, it would likely have an entry for the window replacement and when it was done 0-- if it was the owner you bought from and not one before that.

Until you can get them all checked out and/or replaced, I would keep the blinds or curtains drawn in extreme weather. You could also criss-cross some masking tape across them to help make sure no glass is popped out if another one goes. I've not really heard of people doing that with double pane windows, but along the coast, folks tape up their windows before a hurricane.

Hope you get this resolved.

[bluestocking]

Slknight I just wanted to add that because this is obviously such an abnormal and undesirable situation, don't take people's word for it that it's "not their problem" (ex. water district, manufacturers, etc.). You may need to end up hiring an independent house inspector to give you a written opinion, because it's certainly not within the bounds of expected situations, even in winter. (I'm here in upstate NY by Lake Ontario- we've had temps in the negative numbers for the past couple of days too!) No one wants to be responsible for all your windows plus any other damage! So- check it out thoroughly. Good luck!!

[pattyp.]

I have a question. With double pane windows with argon gas between the panes, should there be frozen ice on the inside of the window? How about condensation. I can buy the condension but wonder about the ice? Windows are about 2 yrs. old. I only have ice on the west windows. It's been cold here in Iowa. :confused:

[VictoriaL]

Patty,
The type of window that you're describing, double-pane with argon gas between panes, is not a cheap window! Unfortunately condensation is almost unavoidable unless you monitor the temperature and humidity of your house constantly, but there definately should not be ice forming on the interior pane, even if it is cold outside. You should contact the manufacturer!

[VictoriaL]

!
(don't ask...)

[ClaraB]

Originally posted by pattyp.
I have a question. With double pane windows with argon gas between the panes, should there be frozen ice on the inside of the window? How about condensation. I can buy the condension but wonder about the ice? Windows are about 2 yrs. old. I only have ice on the west windows. It's been cold here in Iowa. :confused: If it's really cold outside, you'll probably get some ice buildup on the inside of your windows no matter how well-insulated they are. The ice is just condensation that's gone one step colder. What you shouldn't have is condensation between the panes of glass, because that's a sign that the seal has broken.

[VictoriaL]

I thought that I read where the argon-insulated windows are so well-insulated that ice shouldn't form on the interior of the glass even in frigid weather conditions. I may be mistaken... patty, ask the installer or manufacturer.

[slknight]

I'm bumping this thread up again because this just happened again! :confused: It hadn't happened in several years, but another window cracked tonight. This time it's on the back side of the house (the previous ones had been the front). It is still the inside pane. It's not *that* cold here - only in the 20s.

I had kind of forgotten about it for awhile, but now this is worrying me again. How does one go about finding a structural engineer? :( Or do you all think it's the cheapness of the windows?

[KimK]

Call a home inspection company (like the kind you use when you buy a house) and see if they have recommendations for a structural engineer. They probably know people in the business. Or, call the city or county or wherever you get a building permit and ask if they know someone who can check things out for you.

Good luck!

[gertdog]

Susan, I'd be freaked out too. I know you said you called a window place, but did you ever talk to the window manufacturer? Even if there is no warranty, I'd want to ask if they have any thoughts about why this might be happening- if it *is* the "cheapness" of the windows, they may have a lot of experience with this kind of thing.

[donleyk]

If you're not experiencing any other fractures (walls etc) I would blame the windows. Have you had the previous broken ones repaired or replaced?

[GingerPow]

Call a home inspection company (like the kind you use when you buy a house) and see if they have recommendations for a structural engineer. They probably know people in the business. Or, call the city or county or wherever you get a building permit and ask if they know someone who can check things out for you. Good luck!

Sounds like something that your homeowner's insurance should cover once the problem and correction is determined.

[Laurielee]

I dont if this info helps, but a guy I work with had one of his windows crack recently. It was a fairly new window from a few years ago. The replacement window installer said that whoever installed the window used one that was a little too big and it eventuallycouldnt take the pressure anymore and cracked.


Laurie

[canuck2]

I'm bumping this thread up again because this just happened again! :confused: It hadn't happened in several years, but another window cracked tonight. This time it's on the back side of the house (the previous ones had been the front). It is still the inside pane. It's not *that* cold here - only in the 20s.

I had kind of forgotten about it for awhile, but now this is worrying me again. How does one go about finding a structural engineer? :( Or do you all think it's the cheapness of the windows?

Your problem is called "thermal stress glass breakage" and was described in the 70's:

http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/cbd/cbd129_e.html

Its most common in PVC windows with high performace glass.

Making sure the draperies / shades allows air movement is critical. Many companies are excluding breakage or cracking from the warranty coverage for this reason:

http://www.allweatherwindows.com/pdf/2006%20Final%20Warranty.pdf

(look at clause 4,a,xvi)