Hybrid vehicles

[badunnin]

Ok - with all the talk about gas prices, and the fact that I'm looking into buying a new car, I've been doing some more indepth research on hybrids. Would you buy one? Some of the perks: the Honda Civic Hybrid gets 46/51 mpg, about 650 miles per tank, has a standard civic body (4 doors - not incredibly tiny). The Honda Insight gets 61/68 mpg, has a VTEC-E engine, and is a 2-door hatchback (and in my opinion, is pretty sporty looking!). The Toyota Prius gets 48/52 mpg, is a 4-door sedan, and again, is pretty darn cute. In addition, if you buy a hybrid, you qualify for a $2000 tax credit from the IRS. Below are links to all 3 of the vehicles if you want to check them out.

prius (http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/)

Civic Hybrid (http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid)

Honda Insight (http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Insight)

[crazyquilter]

I would absolutely buy one of those if I could fit my family in them. I was really happy to see Toyota come out with the Prius, finally, a 5 seat, 4 door car. Before, there were just things like the Insight, which would never fit a family. Now, my boys are too big for a Prius (I have a Corolla, and they're too big for that; the Prius interior is about the same). I'm hoping someone comes out with a hybrid that's about the size of a Camry. I'll be the first in line.

[Kayla]

Thanks for posting this! I know my mother is really considering getting one, so she would be interested to read this and see the links :)

Kayla

[Belgusa]

My FIL bought the Toyota last year and has been very satisfied so far !

[slknight]

DH and I are quite interested in one of these (probably the Civic) when we need to replace my old Acura (although hopefully not for a few years). From what I understand, however, these get the best gas mileage and are most useful if you do a lot of city driving. The electric/hybrid part kicks in when you are idling, like at lights or in traffic. Since we tend to do mostly highway driving around here, I'm not sure we would be getting the maximum benefit out of one.

[badunnin]

It helps most when you are accelerating. According to the Toyota site, "During initial acceleration, the electric motor is the primary source of power. The gas engine will start up under heavy acceleration or to turn the generator, which in turn charges the battery."

[lhall]

My older brother had a Prius. From what I know he liked it. He did say that it is very quiet and in pedistrian areas you have to be careful. People tend to listen for cars before stepping into the street, and would often not hear him.

He decided to sell it and his 4 wheel drive truck to get an SUV.

Leigh

[Grace]

I own a regular Honda and love it - but I read that the Honda and the Toyota work differently, and that the Toyota's system is somehow better (I can't remember why exactly?) I just remember coming away from the article I read with the thought that I would probably buy the Toyota over the Honda even though I am a Honda devotee.

And my Honda is relatively new, otherwise I'd be out there looking for one of these vehicles myself.... :D I can't wait until my car dies out??! :D I guess I shouldn't be wishing for that!

If anyone already owns one of these, I'd love to hear about it too!

[badunnin]

prius vs. insight comparison (http://www.openfrontier.com/insight/prius.html)

It compares cars of 2 different classes (sub-compact vs compact) but it's still helpful.

--Bethany (saving the world, one grocery bag at a time)

[slknight]

Originally posted by badunnin
It helps most when you are accelerating. According to the Toyota site, "During initial acceleration, the electric motor is the primary source of power. The gas engine will start up under heavy acceleration or to turn the generator, which in turn charges the battery."

Well, I guess this still means that it would be better for city driving. You accelerate after you've been stopped at a light or in traffic. Once you are on the highway and have accelerated and cruising, you wouldn't be getting the same benefits. We live 30 miles from the city and there is very little traffic. Once we're on the highway, it's pretty steady driving with little acceleration until you get there.

I'm still really interested in them, I just wonder if they are as worth it for highway driving.

[LaraW]

Originally posted by Grace
And my Honda is relatively new, otherwise I'd be out there looking for one of these vehicles myself.... :D I can't wait until my car dies out??! :D I guess I shouldn't be wishing for that!

Grace, you may be waiting a while for your Honda to die. My sister is driving a 1990 Accord, with almost 200K miles on it, and its still going strong. Mine is 6 years old, and has 60K miles and DH's is 9 years old with 50K miles.

[badunnin]

Originally posted by slknight


Well, I guess this still means that it would be better for city driving. You accelerate after you've been stopped at a light or in traffic. Once you are on the highway and have accelerated and cruising, you wouldn't be getting the same benefits. We live 30 miles from the city and there is very little traffic. Once we're on the highway, it's pretty steady driving with little acceleration until you get there.

I'm still really interested in them, I just wonder if they are as worth it for highway driving.

I do about half and half driving. They still get great gas mileage on the expressway, and emissions are still low. One of my concerns is how much pick-up do they have? Can I get on the expressway without getting killed?

[Grace]

Lara - I know!! That's actually why I bought my new Honda - I had another one for 9 years. It didn't have that many miles on it (I want to say close to 100K - not as many as your sister's!!), but I do almost ALL city driving - and I drive a stick (on purpose), and I'm hard on a car. So it got kind of ratty (although it definitely still ran).

But now I remember what the difference was (between the Honda hybrid and the Toyota hybrid) - it was in the acceleration! Supposedly the Toyota was better at accelerating. But I will be looking into one of these cars when mine eventually wears out! I bet by then they'll have the hybrid idea down to a real science.

[swquilts]

I'd love to get a gas saving car! :( My SUV is killing me in gas.

PS: Not rain on anyones parade, but last I heard they had discontinued the tax break for alternative fuel cars.....you might want to check with your tax folks.

[slknight]

Originally posted by badunnin

Can I get on the expressway without getting killed?

Yep. I would definitely worry about that too. I can't stand bad acceleration.

And add me to the list of people that are sort of waiting for their Honda/Acura to die. I don't really want another car payment right now, so it's fine if it runs for a little while longer. But my Acura is over 10 years old and has over 100,000 miles on it. It still runs like a dream, but I'd have to say, I'm beginning to get a little sick of it!:p I don't know, maybe I shouldn't say that. I might jinx it and it might die today!

[badunnin]

Sounds like a lot of us made good choices when we bought our cars! I have 120k on mine, and it still runs like a dream. I'm just wanting something new. Mine is a Geo Prizm, and I love it. It's a manual, and I'm debating whether or not I should get an automatic next time. I just know that when I start having stuff go wrong, it will be big stuff. And I'm not looking forward to that.

[emily]

I hadn't known that this had become reality yet, but then I was listening to Car Talk 2 weekends ago and a lady called in about using bio-diesel in her car. Apparently there are a fare number of people out there who have made the switch. Essentially, I'm talking about diesel engine cars using renewable fuel sources, vegetable oils, etc. There are a couple of VW that you can get with a TDI engine as well as a few Mercedes. I just did a quick search on google and found a number of different web sites, forums that discuss this. Really great gas mileage, do harmful emmissions, etc. If you're looking, that might be another venue to explore.

I'm waiting for my Explorer to die as well - 7 years, 120k miles so far. I don't want to pick up a car payment, but I hate that I own an SUV (it was given to me by my parents as a graduation gift) :(

[badunnin]

Bio-diesel is actually available at the filling stations in Europe now - has been for at least 2 years. A lot of it comes from fast food chains. I love renewable fuel sources. See, something good actually CAN come out of fast food!

[erinl]

We're a one car family right now, but when we have to pick up a second, it will be a hybrid. We have a CRV right now and love, love, love it. The mileage is comparable to a sedan, it's low emissions and we have plenty of room to haul baby stuff back and forth to Ohio. We really don't drive it much, either, so gas prices aren't killing us. Anyway, that's the family car. We can get something smaller for DH to drive back and forth to work when the time comes.

[1MegMeg]

If I didn't own a 2000 Toyota 4runner I would definitely be getting Prius. As much as the 4runner (AKA the beast) sucks down the gasoline, it is just too new for me to justify getting a new vehicle. However, I am a total Toyota devotee (my Dad owns a Toyota dealership) so I am definitely looking at the Prius for my next vehicle, especially since I do so much city driving.

:)

[slknight]

Originally posted by emily
I hadn't known that this had become reality yet, but then I was listening to Car Talk 2 weekends ago and a lady called in about using bio-diesel in her car. Apparently there are a fare number of people out there who have made the switch. Essentially, I'm talking about diesel engine cars using renewable fuel sources, vegetable oils, etc. There are a couple of VW that you can get with a TDI engine as well as a few Mercedes.

Oh, I love Car Talk. :D

Anyway, my sister has a diesel VW Golf that she special ordered. She drives a really long distance to work each way and wanted the good gas mileage. She got over 300,000 miles on her previous Golf, so was eager to get a new one. Anyway, she has had HORRIBLE problems with it. It wouldn't be a problem everywhere in the country, but she lives in northern Maine (a few hours north of me) where it is quite cold. Diesels (even the new ones) have a tendency to freeze up in the winter, and she's had to get her new car towed several times in the past month, even after the dealer swore that they fixed it.:( :(

Based on her experience, I think I would be hesitant to buy a diesel in these northern climes. But there is a gas station right near us that does sell the biodiesel. We were just talking about it at Supper Club yesterday; it's pretty interesting.

[lisas3575]

Originally posted by slknight


Oh, I love Car Talk. :D

Me too! Here's their articles comparing the three major hybrids.

http://cartalk.cars.com/info/hybrid/index.html

Susan, I'm curious how much the biodiesel costs per gallon...

[slknight]

Originally posted by lisas3575


Susan, I'm curious how much the biodiesel costs per gallon...

It's $2.65 a gallon right now. (I think regular diesel is running about $2/gallon around here).

Here's a link to the place that sells it. It's right near my house:
http://www.solarmarket.com/index.html

[scout1222]

I've got a Golf TDI that I just bought within the past year. I had been hemming and hawing about the Toyota Prius, because I really wanted the hybrid. I ended up going diesel simply because its technology is more established.

I get really good gas mileage, compared to most people. Roughly 36 mpg for an automatic transmission. However, I am disappointed.

When I was driving a Toyota Tercel, I always got midway between the city & highway MPG that they advertised on the car. So when I went shopping for the Golf and saw 34 city and 45 highway, I figured I'd average 40mpg. WRONG. I really have to be doing LONG stretches on the highway in order to get the highway miles. And since my commute is only 12 miles, I'm only getting 36 on a regular basis, unless I drive up to LA or something.

Next car will DEFINITELY be hybrid. By that time (I tend to keep cars for a long time, knock on wood) the technology will be old hat and I won't have a single reservation buying one.

Don't get me wrong, though, I love my little Golf. It's a great car. And it gets great mileage. Just not as high as I'd anticipated.

[Jasmine-Rose]

I've been thinking about a hybrid for my next car, too. I have a 1991 Honda Civic DX (the DX means bare bones - no clock, no A/C, no electric windows, no cup holders, etc) and the odometer just hit 160,000 miles last month. She's still going strong but has had just a few, not unexpected, problems. I just picked her up from the garage today - they replaced the CV joints. I expect to replace her in a year or so and I've been thinking about what to get.

My first inclination is to get an Accord that has some of the features I've been doing without, such as A/C and electric windows. The drawback is that the gas mileage will be lower than what I get now (low to mid 30's in winter, 40 or better in summer). I'm thinking about the hybrids but I'm worried about how expensive repairs might be. Also, I wanted the Accord because it is just a bit larger than my Civic. I thought I read somewhere that Honda will come out with a hybrid Accord in a couple of years. So, in the meantime I'll do more research and give some serious thought to the options. It's a pretty sure bet I'll be paying much more for the next car - I paid $10K for the Civic when she was brand new. Those were the days!

[badunnin]

Originally posted by swquilts
PS: Not rain on anyones parade, but last I heard they had discontinued the tax break for alternative fuel cars.....you might want to check with your tax folks.

I just checked the IRS site, and as of 4 March, it is still available.

[emily]

So has anyone actually picked up a hybrid yet? My car was unfortunately in a accident this weekend (very long story that I don't really want to go into, but everyone is ok) and has been deemed "totalled" by the insurance company. I'm being forced into getting a new(ish) car sooner than I'd have hoped.

In researching, I've discovered that for some reason unbeknownst to me, one can't buy a Golf TDI from VW dealers in California. So I'm looking at hybrids. Even though I abhor spending that much on a car, the fuel economy and environmental goodness really appeals to me. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether I'll even be able to get my top choice, a Prius, because they're in such high demand here.

Anyway, just wanted to see if anyone has gotten one and their reviews as such :)

Emily

[fudi2000]

DH is currently looking for a new car. I gave him my 1996 Dodge Neon when I bought my Taurus(what I feel is my first "adult" car). Anyway, he desperately wants a foreign car, and I would love him to get a hybrid. But I think if he did, I would end up driving it and he'd get the Ford. I guess Toyota's seem the way to go around here. All the mechanics say that Neon's are throw away cars, and I'm believing it. So maybe he should stick to looking at them.

Theresa

[Beth]

Emily, you might look at buying one in another city and driving it home -- even Houston. When we bought our van last year under similar cicumstances, we saw that in some areas (like NC) the average retail was thousands higher.

DH wanted to have the option, but the Civic was too small for us. The Honda fp;ls tell me the Pilot will be the next one out as a Hybrid for Honda (too big) and then some of the others. The auto makers are pushing to prove the technology workls for an SUV.

[MusicMom]

A good friend bought a Prius a month or so ago. They did their research and thought the Toyota hybrid system was better than the Honda system, although I didn't really understand why. (I kind of got lost in her "techno-speak") She really likes it and recently used it to drive from VA to Wisconsin to pick her son up from college. They had enough room for all of his gear.

We're thinking about a hybrid when the time comes to replace our Caravan, which should be soon. :( Ford is coming out with the hybrid version of its Escape. See Escape (http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/home/index.asp?bhcp=1) I'd like to at least look into that if DH will give up on having a van. I'm a little skittish about buying new technology in the first year, though.

[crlykat]

Originally posted by badunnin


I just checked the IRS site, and as of 4 March, it is still available.
I hear the tax benefit will be reduced to 1500 soon. MSNBC just had an article on this and has a list of other models coming out soon.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5207963/

I dont have any experience with a hybrid but when I worked at Toyota headquarters, the staff used to drive the RAV4 EV around--like Leigh mentioned, it is so quiet that even the driver wonders if it is on! :D

[Member10000]

For anyone interested, I was watching a program a couple of weeks ago and they were discussing how if you are involved in an accident in a hybrid car, it may be dangerous for the rescuers to get you out (I guess if they need to use the jaws of life). For those not trained on the vehicles, they could get electrocuted. I forget where I saw this report, but it made me wonder about them.

[muriel3002]

I currently drive a Dodge Dakota (1998) and if I am very very careful I can squeeze out 15-16 mpg in combined city/highway driving. We have a pick up because we haul wood, camper, and other stuff. But I absolutely dream of being able to purchase a Prius. I've done a ton of research and while I don't keep all the info, I know that Prius is far better than the Honda at this point (that could change).

I was also a very satisfied Corolla owner (95 model, which DS now has). The Corolla has nearly 300,000 km on it now and as expected some of the pricier things need to be changed, but the body is still in great condition, the engine is awesome and I believe has another 300,000 km in her. It's amazing the body is in such great condition considering it was always parked outside, winter and summer.

1MegMeg - your dad owns a Toyota dealership?! How satisfied is he with the Prius? Does he get many kudos or complaints?

[engineer]

Just want to warn anyone considering a hybrid that lives in a COLD region of the country. I have a friend who lives in Winnipeg MB. (a little more than a couple of hours north of me) And he couldn't drive his new prius for more than a week. It was soo cold that the batteries were low and the computer that controls the car said nope I won't start because you don't have enough battery resourse. OK it gets to -40 in the winter around here and those of you that don't live along the 49th parallel won't have this affect you but for us it would and so we're waiting until someone has something that will start on gas if it's really cold.

[ccooney]

If you're looking to get a hybrid, you may be in for a bit of a wait. The parent of one of my students said they decided to get one and both the Honda and Toyota dealers said that with the gas prices the way they are, hybrids are in high demand. In our part of the country they'll have to wait 2 - 3 months for the car they ordered to come in. There are none for sale on the lot.

[scout1222]

Originally posted by emily
In researching, I've discovered that for some reason unbeknownst to me, one can't buy a Golf TDI from VW dealers in California.

emily, that's really bizarre. I'm the one that bought the Golf TDI. And I live in California. So unless things have changed in the 2 years I bought mine, I think that might be incorrect. They may only be able to sell a certain number of them (which I don't know why that rings a bell, I'm pulling it out of my rear), but someone certainly was able to sell one to ME.

Watch - they emissions police are going to be out to get me now. :D

[Love to Run]

OK, I don't know how to do links but NPR recently did an interesting story about hybrid car owners complaining about overstated mileage estimates. You can find the story at npr.org. In the search box type hybrid cars and it should list a story that aired on 5/14/04.

The story talked about the outdated procedures for testing vehicles to produce the EPA mileage estimates. Basically the hybrid cars are still getting very good mileage, just not near the mileage advertised on the stickers.

Carole

[sandee]

Originally posted by Jasmine-Rose
Also, I wanted the Accord because it is just a bit larger than my Civic. I thought I read somewhere that Honda will come out with a hybrid Accord in a couple of years.

The Honda Accord Hybrid is coming out in the 2005 model this fall. I'm patiently waiting to get it. As for the acceleration problems that Honda vs. Toyota, I read that this was less of a problem in the Accord Hybrid, since it uses a V6 engine which the Civic doesn't have (the same combustion engine that regular Accords have).

edited to add: i just called Honda Canada and it's coming out in Canada and the US. THe tentative release date is Nov. 12. Production is starting in October.

[Escher]

Nope. Escher wouldn't be caught dead in one of those beans. Not yet. Escher will wait until they are mass produced at a fraction of the cost and let someone else pay for the R&D costs.

Escher was into utility vehicle's long before they became "Sport" Utility vehicle. In fact, Escher drove a "Hummer" in 1988 and swore on the spot to purchase one someday.

Escher is currently saving up to get an Abrams.
An extra big hello to anyone here who knows what an Abrams is.

[scout1222]

Let me know when you get that Abrams, Escher. I'm giving you a wide berth when you start driving that baby! ;)

[Escher]

A ticket for SPEEDING?!?! I don't think so:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m1a1-tank-sym-s.jpghttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m1tank-s.jpg
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/abrams.jpg

Escher is a big proponent of peace through superior firepower.

[jem927]

I've been considering a hybrid vehicle and found this thread in my research...


Just an FYI for those looking for something a bit larger than a Prius - the Honda Accord Hybrid is out, and from what I can tell, is readily available at this point..

Also, for 2005, you can get a $2000 credit on your taxes for the Accord Hybrid. The IRS put that out earlier this week.

Happy Hybrid Buying!

Jamie

[Gilgamesh37]

DBF bought a Honda Civic Hybrid in about November. While he likes it, the MPG estimates were WAY overstated---in actuality, through the winter (because your mileage is worse in cold weather) he's been getting about 38-40. Frankly, it really p*ssed him off that they're allowed to advertise mileage ratings that are garnered from highly controlled tests in wind-free testing chambers, instead of actual over the road estimates. ANyway. Other than that, he really likes the car (though it's really startling at first, when you're at a stop light, and the car simply turns itself completely off)(it starts by itself as soon as you hit the gas, but the silence is alarming at first) and it's plenty zippy with ample pickup for getting on the highway.

That said, his brother has a Prius and is extremely happy--not to mention that his actual mileage in the Prius is way closer to the advertised mileage. If we had it to do over (and there weren't a 20 month waiting list) we'd get the Prius over the Honda.

[jem927]

From what I have read, and only from what I have read, it appears that the Accord Hybrid has solved the "pick-up" problem associated with alot of other hybrids. Also, according the specs, it actually has more HP that the regular Accords.. Should be an interesting test drive... I'll post to let you know how it goes.

Jamie

[Basil87]

Hi,
I have owned a Honda Civic Hybrid for over 3 years now, and I LOVE it! I get an average of 57 miles to the gallon. I've never had any problems with it, drives like a normal car.

Best!

[Gail]

My husband just got a Civic Hybrid a little over a month ago. He's d been leasing Accord EXs for business purposes for about the last 15 years. We just weren't impressed with the new model and opted to look at alteratives. He test drove a Hybrid and though it doesn't accelerate quite as well as the Accord, we really liked the way the car handled, plus it was cute. I am flabbergasted by the fantastic mileage Basil87 is getting. I think ours has been averaging somewhere around 35 mpg-- which, considering the disappointing mileage he was getting on the Accord, ain't bad. (I should point out that he's driving around in the city all day, in and out of the car.)

[RobinC]

A good friend of mine has a Prius, got it last year. Her and her husband LOVE it. They've taken several road trips from Seattle to Portland to come visit me :D. They are thrilled with the performance and comfort.

I drive a Toyota Rav4 and have been coveting a Highlander. (Just paid the Rav off and am really enjoying no car payments, so no new car for me for a few years). Now I'm thinking about a Prius. Maybe I can convice DBF to buy one, he needs a new car. :D

[JanetJ]

I work for a rental car company and we have the Prius. From what I hear from those who work in the rental branches, it's very popular. My DH (who also works for the company) has a company car and a couple of times has had to use a different car over the weekend and has brought home a Prius. I find it very comfortable and roomy and noticed no problem with it having enough pickup getting on the freeway. If I had to get a new car I would definitely consider it.

You might look into renting a hybrid for the weekend if you really want to check it out. Most rental companies offer really reduced rates over the weekend and you can test it for a more extended period of time without a salesman sitting next to you.:)

[hollysmom]

Dad has a Prius and loves it--it is easily as big as the Camry inside. The quiet is unsettling when driving - but the 50 mpg is great!

SSM