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rosen
01-07-2001, 11:15 AM
1) Can bread machine receipes be converted to be made the conventional way w/ hand kneading, regular rising & baking? If so, how do I determine oven temp. & baking time?
2) Can "Special" bread machine yeast be used in place of conventional yeast? If so, is there anything different I should be looking out for as far as rising time &/or volume?

Back before Xmas, my DH decided he wanted to purchase a bread machine & he did all his usual research homework before buying a Breadman. (Including reading all the related threads on this BB!) 4 loaves later we were not impressed w/ how the loaves held up flavor & texture-wise beyond the initial fresh, hot from the machine moment. So the machine was returned & he has now undertaken the task of learning how to bake from scratch so we can share this activity. There are so many interesting receipes for machine loaves (the chocolate bread in the J/F issue!) & this is what has prompted these questions. Plus I have a giant jar of machine yeast in the fridge to use up or give away!

luv2cook
01-07-2001, 11:39 AM
What I have started doing is letting the bread machine do all the kneading work, etc. I put it on dough cycle and then pop it out into a pan, I heat the oven up just a bit, throw it in there with a towel over it and then after an hour, I cook it for 35 min. at 350. It's been perfect every time. Works great, too, when you're working with bread that has a lot of wet ingredients.

Also, breads that have different ingredients like sour cream, yogurt, cottage cheese, cream cheese, etc. have a different texture. They will not be as tall or fluffy like bread made with strictly dry ingredients.

Is it *possible* that maybe you were expecting each loaf to be light and fluffy???
I use bread machine yeast and then bake in the oven with excellent results. I just made a "cheese loaf" that had cream cheese and nuts and craisins in it that I baked in the oven and it came out the same way that it did in the bread machine -- it was a very moist, kind of dense loaf but still good.

Just food for thought...
OH...I had a power failure right after I started a loaf in the machine. I followed the bread machine's schedule and hand kneaded it myself and popped in oven. Came out great! So IMO, I think you can do whatever you want!

ElinorC
01-07-2001, 01:15 PM
I don't have a bread machine but am interested in learning how to bake breads the conventional way. How would I (or can I) change the bread machine recipes in Cl into a recipe I could do by hand? I'd appreciate any help since I haven't done much yeast doughs. I did make the quick pizza dough and it turned out well. TIA

Beth
01-07-2001, 03:40 PM
I can't do it right now, but I have several books devoted to breads. I'll look and see if they have any suggestions. In the meantime, I'd try a fairly standard method of proofing the yeast with warm water or milk, adding to the dry ingredients along with any remaining wet and knead. You will need to develop a feel for the dough so you know how wet or dry it should be (but in general, use the least amount of flour possible to make the dough manageable). and when it has been kneaded enough (elastic, stretchy, and when in doubt, give it a little more).

I have neber used bread machine yeast, and I wonder whether it is really different or just sold in jars for people who bake more often. It may be slightly more or less reactive, so you may see that your rising times are faster or slower or that you need to increase or decrease the amount a bit to get a rising with good flavor. I'd try the amount in the recipe for a basic bread and go from there.

Again, I'll check my books and let you know if I learn anything there.

JJeannette
01-07-2001, 04:41 PM
The bread machine yeast is about the same as the quick-rising yeasts. You should be able to use it just as you would the quick-rising stuff.

ElinorC---you shouldn't have to change the CL recipes at all to make them by conventional methods. Any complete cookbook should have directions for conventional bread making, so check it out and go for it. My one hint is to be sure that you knead the dough enough--more than you would think---it's taken me 30 years to begin to get it right!

SusanJoy
01-07-2001, 06:31 PM
I used my bread machine for about a year, but decided to try my Kitchen Aid stand mixer one day and find that it is just as easy and more satisfying to get the dough out and play with it a little (kneading I mean) my two girls love to shape the loaves and I have more control over size, when I bake, etc. The bread machine sits idle in the garage....

One site/catalog I love for bread baking ideas recipes, etc. is King Arthur Flour - KingArthurFlour.com. Lots of tips for novice bakers, as well as nifty flours and add ins. I think it is the greatest.

Susan

Tiger
01-07-2001, 09:21 PM
I also just use my bread machine to make dough. I'm not thrilled with how it turns out cooked in the machine. But to me it's worth because it so much less work for fresh dough. Plus I got a really good breadmaker on sale for $15. It's funny how expensive things are when they first come out. And than the prices goes down when the newness wears off!

luv2cook
01-07-2001, 11:11 PM
joanie, I will get it and post it either tonight or tomorrow...

joanieb
01-08-2001, 12:54 AM
luv2cook--Pretty please, any chance you could post your cheese loaf w/nuts, craisins, creams cheese? Would love to try your loaf in my new machine.

Thanks in advance!

joanieb

luv2cook
01-08-2001, 09:49 AM
Joanie, here is the Cranberry-Cheese Loaf

1 1/2 lb. recipe

1/2 c + 2TBS milk
1/3 c. orange juice
1/2 c. soft cream cheese, cut up
3 TBS. sugar
1 1/2 tsp. grated orange or lemon peel
1 1/4 tsp. salt
3 1/4 c. bread flour, unsifted
1 1/2 tsp. active dry yeast or BM yeast
1/2 c dried cranberries or Craisins
1/3 c. chopped pecans or walnuts
Garnish: 2 TBS orange marmalade, melted (optional)

If your machine does not have a preheat cycle, combine milk, oj, and cream cheese and heat in microwave on HIGH power for 30 seconds (or heat in saucepan 1 min) Add to the bread pan with remaining ingredients (except cranberries and nuts)Measure out the cranberries and pecans to add at the beep or when manufacturer directs. Set the cycle loaf size and crust setting. press Start

2. After about 5 min. of kneading, check the consistency of your dough. If dough is not in a smooth round ball, open lid and with maching ON, add liquid a tablespoon at a time if too dry, or add flour a tablespoon at a time if too wet.
3. Remove the bread promptly from the pan when the machine beeps or on completing the cycle. Brush with melted orange marmalade, if desired. Cool on rack before slicing.

**I made this but did dough cycle only and cooked in oven...at 350 for 35 min.

RunnerKim
01-08-2001, 04:12 PM
I rarely buy bread products of any kind anymore. The only exception is bagels which we eat almost every morning for breakfast. I do both - by hand and use my bread machine. I love to make bread by hand and often do at least one loaf on the weekend. But I love having pizza dough ready on Friday nights when I get home from work and last night I realized I'd never gotten around to making bagels (didn't buy them this week). I was too tired to do them at that point and it was great to be able to throw stuff in my bread machine and have a great loaf (sourdough cinnamon apple) ready without any work from me. It smelled so great my husband and I had to have a slice before bed.

Kim

luv2cook
01-08-2001, 04:16 PM
Speaking of smelling good, Kim, ever made onion bread? OHMIGOD that smells great! I have the recipe for those who want it.

Ps. I have the Thai Pork in the crockpot. Smells great, too. I'm going to add a few snow peas to the crock right before serving...

[This message has been edited by luv2cook (edited 01-08-2001).]

joanieb
01-09-2001, 12:04 AM
luvs2cook---oh, wow, this looks wonderful! Thank you so very much for posting this! I might try this--TONITE! Thanks again!

Joanieb

tobykitty
01-09-2001, 12:06 AM
okay, you folks are making me hang my head in shame. I love my bread machine! Do the bread by hand?! Its more rewarding?! I would never be so cruel to myself. I suspect that you are the same people who have mastered the homemade pie crust. (Insert your favorite smiley face, as I have not been able to figure out how to add it myself)

My question to all of you is, should I be able to make a conventional bread recipe in my bread machine?

KimKelly
01-09-2001, 12:24 AM
I make bread by all of the above methods! I have a bread machine and use it to make fully cooked loaves as well as dough. I too many times have it do the kneading then do the shaping and baking myself. I agree with the 350 degree oven and about 35 minutes luv2cook recommended. I also use my Kitchen Aid mixer. This is actually my preffered method. And then I sometimes (time permitting!) do the whole thing by hand. I love bread and love all aspects of making it!

IMO you can switch between the hand method and machine with just about any recipe. I have a book called the Bread Bible that has a great abount of instruction. (BTW the same author just came out with a book for breads in the machine!) Anyway, I used this book for the basics, and now can pretty much adapt breads to what I want. Once you get the feel for the dough you are set. I would recommend getting some sort of book for the basics, then go from there!

KIm

tovie
01-09-2001, 09:51 AM
I've never had a bread machine, but I make bread machine recipes by hand all the time. The only thing I've noticed is that they tend to use more flour than the recipe states. I've never paid enough attention to say how much more, I just add until the dough feels right.

When bread machines first started being popular, I got this lovely little catalog in the mail proclaiming the greatness of some particular brand. Well, I wasn't interested in the machine but I kept the catalog because some of the recipes sounded really good. And they were (bg)

Tovie

SandyM
01-09-2001, 10:33 AM
luv2cook, I would LOVE the recipe for your onion bread.

My mother (75 years old) still makes WONDERFUL bread, by hand (she won't touch a bread machine). I'm slowly getting over my fear of yeast. I don't have a bread machine because I already have several appliances that don't get used as it is.

My sister-in-law sent me a recipe for rosemary parmesan potato bread and said "Since you have a KitchenAid mixer, I vote YOU to make this bread for Christmas!"

I panicked. But figured, if it doesn't work, so what? It was PHENOMENAL, and I can't wait to try different kinds of bread now.

SandyM
01-09-2001, 10:40 AM
eek - anyone else have trouble with double posts???


[This message has been edited by SandyM (edited 01-09-2001).]

Beth
01-09-2001, 10:44 AM
Okay, Sandy, you knew it would happen. Could you post the Rosemary Parmesan Potato Bread recipe? I have vowed to make a rosemary bread, and DH loves potato breads. Sounds like one we need to try.

Jen
01-09-2001, 10:56 AM
I read on the Fleischmann's site (http://www.breadworld.com) that if you want to use bread machine yeast in a conventional recipe, you can skip the first rise! I was skeptical at first, but I've tried it several times and it works fine. I think the BM yeast is just finer, so it is incorporated faster into the dough. You do your proofing, initial mixing, etc., then when you should do the first rise, just cover the dough and let it sit at room temp for 5-10 minutes. Then continue with the kneading and the second rise as it says in the recipe. Definitely a time-saver!!

SandyM
01-17-2001, 12:20 AM
As requested, here's the recipe. It's from Food TV:

2 scant Tbsp., or 2 (1/4 oz) pkgs dry yeast
2 cups warm water (about 110 degrees)
2 tsp. salt
1 Tbsp. finely minced garlic
1 Tbsp. finely chopped fresh rosemary, or 1 tsp. dried rosemary
1/4 cup olive oil
2 cups coarsely shredded raw potato
1 cup grated parmesan cheese
6-7 cups unbleached flour
additional olive oil

In large bowl, stir yeast into water to soften. Add salt, garlic, rosemary, olive oil, potato, cheese, and 3 cups of flour. Beat vigorously for 2 minutes. Gradually add flour, 1/4 cup at a time, until the dough begins to pull away from the side of the bowl.

Turn dough onto floured work surface. Knead, adding flour a little at a time, until you have a smooth, elastic dough. Place dough into an oiled bowl. Turn to coat the entire ball of dough with oil. Cover with a tightly woven towel and let rise until doubled, about 1 hour.

Turn dough onto lightly oiled work surface and divide in half. Shape each half into a ball and place onto a well-greased baking sheet. Cover with a tighly woven towel and let rise until amost doubled, about 45 minutes.

About 10 minutes before baking, preheat oven to 375. Place a shallow pan on the bottom shelf of the oven. Just before baking, brush each loaf with olive oil and cut a cross about 1/4" deep into the top. Place the bread in the oven and put 5 ice cubs in the pan on the bottom shelf. Close the door quickly to prevent steam from escaping. Bake for 25 minutes, or until the internal temperature of the loaves reaches 190 degrees. Immediately remove the bread from the baking sheet and cool on a rack.

Yield: 2 loaves

Notes: This was my first time EVER baking bread, and I'll tell you what happened to me.

I did not "oil" the baking sheet enough, and the bread stuck to the sheet. My original thought was to bake it on a stone, but not having made bread before, I wanted to follow the recipe EXACTLY. If you use the cookie sheet, use parchment paper.

I don't think I added enough flour, because my "balls" of dough spread. It turned into flatbread, which was still fine - it was not dense at all, and it tasted wonderful. I just don't think it looked the way it was supposed to!

I used my Cuisinart to shred the potato. At first I thought the "shreds" were too large - similar to cole slaw - but blending the potato in the mixer as called for in the recipe really broke it up.

Good luck - let me know how you do.