I know it's not about the "scale" but all this for one measley pound ??

[CHRIST1NE]

I lost 40 pounds, kept it off for over 2 years and have gradulatty gained back 15 pounds, primarily due to lack of focus. I have my focus back, I'm determined, I am strong...I am going on a crusie in march and need to wear a bathing suit .... I worked out 26 of the 31 days in August!! The breakdown is as follows:

Step classes (using both 1 and 2 risers) -- 9
Free weight days -- 6
Treadmill days -- 6
Spin classes -- 5
Body Pump classes -- 6

Only to find out on Saturday that I've only lost 1 pound :(

It's almost funny if you stop and think about it.... however, I do feel like I'm in some preety good shape... I even dropped my resting heart rate by 6 beats (I'm in the mid-50's now). I do understand that it's not about the scale, but sometimes don't you wish the scale goddeses could throw you a little bone every now and again :)

And yes, I know I'm building muscle and that it weighs more than fat, but sometime don't you just want to see a lower number, at least I do.

As for calorie control, I was right on until the big computer converstion... then it seemed that Heath Bites was the only "person" that really unbderstood what I was going through and they were right there with me all week :)

Oh well, it's a new montha nd I lived trough the conversion. Now I just need my gym focus and commitment when it comes to food.

[DocAgocs]

This is why I always recommend patients at least measure their waist, preferably waist, arms and thighs, before starting a workout program. You can lose inches and yet have very little to show for it on the scale. For my female patients, too, I recommend you weigh yourself daily (don't pay attention to the number), then average at the end of the week. Weight in female patients can vary a LOT from day to day, particularly depending on what's going on hormonally.

So, take some measurements and see how your clothes are fitting. Are they a bit looser? Keep at it. Your "set point" may be a little more resistant than some, so beat that metabolism into shape. Also, are you sure you're not overtraining and cutting too many calories? Your body is an efficient pack rat, so if it feels you are stressing yourself too much your metabolism will go through the basement to insure that you store enough energy for the crisis.

Most of my patients who are truly resistant to losing weight have a complex variety of things going on with their liver. By "detoxifying" their system over a period of about 21 days we can get them to lose a lot of weight and continue to do so by making the right food choices. You won't find this line of thinking in mainstream dieting books but I've seen the results in dozens of patients and it's irrefutable.

Not only do you have to burn more calories than you consume when losing weight, but you have to make the right food choices to correctly balance critical hormones such as insulin, glucagon, epinephrine and cortisol AND you have to have a healthy liver that will properly process these hormones and fats. When you get all this coordinated it's pretty crazy how quickly you can lose weight and feel awesome doing it. Start eating a lot of red peppers, garlic, red beets, egg yolks, onions, cabbage, kale, broccoli, Milk Thistle, etc!

[anonymousone]

With all due respect, Christ1ne, please go see a registered dietitian. I disagree strongly with DocAgocs. I have read many of his discussion on this page, and while I belive that he has good intentions, his advice isn't based on strong science.

I have a Masters degree in dietetics, and I am often disheartened when I see medical professionals giving advice not based on solid science.

I'm not trying to be nasty, I respect DocAgocs, but I just had to get this off my chest. Good luck Christ1ne, I know that you are going to do well with your program. Follow portion control and the Food Guide Pyramid, and continue your exercise regime, and you will do great!

Thanks.

[wallycat]

Christine,
It appears you are very knowledgeable in what it takes to lose weight...and how you've gained it.
Give yourself time to get back into focus and your weight, with determination AND THE FOCUS will come down.

I hesitate to state this because I"m sure you already know it, but the race to lose weight for a bathing suit or summer or "an event" rarely produces long term results. Sure you can look great for the week you need it, but the goal is to stay that way.

I'm glad your feeling better and are maintaining a healthy body...WOW on the resting heart rate!!
You are right though...sure would be nice if the scale goddess would occasionally see your point of view :D ;)

p.s. your body "detoxes" itself on the hour, every day, every moment...that is why you have a liver, kidneys and skin :) .

[CHRIST1NE]

Thanks, everyone for your relies.

Doc -- yes, I did take pre-measurements, but I only re-measure every 6-weeks so I have another 2 weeks to go. As for how things are fitting.. when things were that tight, it's hard to notice :) As for my calorie intake, I feel that 1600-1800 is right in the ball park, especially when I'm very mindul of my choices. I have recently incorporated tofu and WW flour into my diet and continue to eat the many other healthy things that I've gotten used to.

anonymousone -- I actually went to my physician when I "got my focus back" and she was not amused. According to her I am absolutely perfect the way I am and well within the normal range for my height. And honestly, I'm pretty happy where I'm at, I just "feel" better at the lower weight. It was kinda funny though, she is a tad overweight herself and she said "if there was a majic pill, do you think I would look like this?" And portion control and following the food pyramid is exaclty how I lost the initial weight.... consequently, it will also be how I re-lose this weight.

Wallycat -- yes, I do try to stay knowledgeable and reasonable when it come to weight loss/management. As for the bathing suit.. the cruise isn't until March and all I'm really looking to do is lose a little of the tummy pudge. I know that how the suit looks now is basically how it will look in March -- and that's okay. As for the resting heart rate, I am quite proud of that. It was 61 in january and it was 55 a few weekends ago, however it was able to breath it down to down to 48 for a bit.

I guess my biggest problem is stress/emotional eating. It seems that all the focus and determination in the world can't help me when I'm in one of "those" places/situations (like the computer conversion). It astounds me how much I can eat during one of my binges. And the weird part is I never feel full during it.... Although, at lunch today I am going to buy a kitchen timer so when I am in a binge, HOPEFULLY, I can set the timer for 15 minute intervals and at least slow down the rate at which I am consuming things and reduce their caloric damage. And in the meantime, try to work on the real issues that cause the binging.

~C

[claire797]

Maybe you should cut your calories. 1600-1800 sounds more like a maintenace amount. If I ate 1800 calories a day, I would gain.

[anonymousone]

Christ1NE,

It sounds like you're definitely on the right track. Wallycat had some great ideas. After re-reading my post over the lunch hour, I didn't mean to come across to nasty in my earlier post. :) I think I had a case of the cranky pants this morning. DogAgocs, I didn't mean to offend you, we can agree to disagree, right?

Anyhow, hats off Christ1NE, and keep us posted with your progress!

SD

ps I know a few overweight dietitians myself. Sometimes knowing what to do doesn't mean that we do it. :)

[olive101]

I would suggest figuring out your resting metobolic rate and scaling your calories from there. You can calculate your rate here http://www.hussman.org/fitness/bmrcalc.htm For most people you burn 1.6 times this amount on days when you work out and 1.3 on days when you do not work out. It takes a 3500 calorie deficit to lose a pound. Thus, you can do the math to calculate how much you should be eating each day to lose a pound a week, which is a reasonable amount.

[CHRIST1NE]

Thanks Olive101 for reminding me of that website. I have been there many times, but not recently. According to John, on my workout days I'm buring 1650 - si in order to loose weight I need to be down from that -- dugh! So, my 1600-800 is simply maintaing where I'm at... it's so elementary, but I forget... thanks again.

[MrsReber]

Great site! I totally agree with John - I don't accurately account for all the food I eat. I need to work our harder or eat less- or BOTH!

[Little Bit]

I read recently that muscle may weigh more, but it also burns more calories as it goes about its' business, so ultimately, having strong healthy muscles helps burn extra calories. Right?

Maybe I'm off track here, but if you're rebuilding your muscle mass while you lose weight elsewhere, won't it then 'seem' for a while as if you've done nothing, weight-wise?? The numbers won't change much until you get a better ratio of fat to lean?

Maybe I am forgetting something about the way metabolism works?

Hmmm ... . Hang in there! :)

[greysangel]

a pound is a pound whether it is fat or muscle. However muscle occupies far less space than fat does. If you look at a picture of 1 lb of muscle vs a lb of fat, the muscle is compact and dense. Muscle does burn more calories than fat, however it requires a lot of effort to build muscle. If you are gaining muscle and losing fat, yes the "number" losses will be less...you're right there little bit :D

JeAnne

[DocAgocs]

have a Masters degree in dietetics, and I am often disheartened when I see medical professionals giving advice not based on solid science.

I'm not trying to be nasty, I respect DocAgocs, but I just had to get this off my chest. Good luck Christ1ne, I know that you are going to do well with your program. Follow portion control and the Food Guide Pyramid, and continue your exercise regime, and you will do great!

No offense taken! Everyone is allowed their own opinion. Certainly seeing a dietician is not a bad idea, but I have dealt with many similar cases and I'm giving my informed opinion. The Food Pyramid, as it stands, though is a mess. Getting the majority of your calories from refined carbohydrates, bread, pasta, etc is not healthy in any way. If you put fruits and vegetables as the base of the pyramid, protein/nuts/legumes and fats at the next step, unrefined grains next, then dairy and refined grains at the tip you'd be in good shape. We're getting there, but the food industry is pretty resistant to changes like this for obvious reasons.


p.s. your body "detoxes" itself on the hour, every day, every moment...that is why you have a liver, kidneys and skin

Sure, assuming that these are all coordinated together and working properly. And this is a pretty poor assumption to make, Wallycat. It would be just like saying "The body has an immune system, and that's why no one ever needs antibiotics." The immune system doesn't always work 100% in everyone which is why sometimes antibiotics are indicated. Just because the body has a mechanism for doing something doesn't mean it's working. If that was the case you and I would both be out of jobs.


The body detoxifies in many ways, most of which we probably have no idea about. We do know a little bit about Cytochrome p450 pathways, though. A refresher course in how this pathway works may help you understand why assuming this is working in everyone is a bad idea. The body processes toxic substances in the body through a pathway of chemical reactions collectively called Cytochrome P450 reactions.

Toxins get into the body through food, air and water (colors, preservatives, fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, pollution, etc) and they are produced within the body through normal metabolism. Your body removes them through detoxification. Cytochrome P450 mechanisms have been found in the liver, GI tract and brain, and probably any tissue in the body can detoxify this way to some extent, although this is unfounded at this time. About 80-90% of detoxification occurs in the liver.

There are two steps to the Cytochrome P450 reactions. They are aimed at making fat-soluble toxins water soluble so they can be passed through your feces and urine. Phase I, called bioactivation, puts an attachment site on a toxin molecule, whatever it is, and prepares it for Phase II, called conjugation. Phase I requires a lot of energy and it also creates a lot of free radicals that will damage the liver if not "soaked up". Also, certain B vitamins are critical for the formation of NADH for use in this process.

Phase I detoxification results in the creation of a reactive intermediate. The reactive intermediate is generally more toxic to the body than the original toxin, which is why Phase II detoxification exists. Phase II detoxification adds a cofactor to the attachment site created in Phase I. The known reactions of Phase II include glucuronidation, sulfation, methylation, amino acid conjugation, glutathione conjugation and acetylation. When a cofactor is added to a reactive intermediate, that cofactor is expelled along with the formerly toxic molecule. As such, the body needs a constant source of replenishable cofactors.

These cofactors come from foods that are "real common" in our diet, including garlic, red peppers, Brussels sprouts, egg yolks, onions, asparagus, broccoli, kale, cabbage, etc. If the body doesn't have this source of cofactors, it cannot keep up with the toxins being produced in Phase I. The body's response to this is to bury these toxins in fat because they are fat soluble. This fat can be deposited right in the liver, resulting in a sluggish "fatty liver" or other places in the body. As people start to lose weight and they are resistant to it, the prevailing theory in the non-dietician crowd is that their liver cannot possibly process properly because of the fatty buildup and the lack of Phase II cofactors. This is especially evident in people who rebound on Atkins styl;e diets.

So, there it is in a nutshell. If you think there is "no science" behind this I would refer you to Stryer's text of biochemistry as well as Dr. Gina Nick's textbook for clinicians on Clinical Detoxification. Now, I will agree that the idea of "detoxification" is misrepresented in alternative health. Proper detoxification will simply provide the nutrients needed for the body to perform Phase I, and more importantly, Phase II and "clean out the pipes". The program we use is 3 weeks long and involves eating LOTS of fruits and vegetables as well as using supplements made from organically grown brussels sprouts, kale, buckwheat, barley grass, several types of fiber, and a host of gentle herbs that are proven scientifically to enhance Phase I, Phase II or both.

Sorry about the long explanation, but I wanted to give readers the tip of the iceberg that just because two people say there is no science behind what I do they aren't necessarily right. No health care practitioner can possibly keep up with everything in every field. So, yes, the body has detoxification mechanisms. In what I've seen they rarely work 100% in our lifestyle and they NEVER work properly in people who are overweight. And, by getting these systems working properly again, amazing weight and health benefits result.

I have seen cholesterol normalize, blood sugar regulated, people reducing insulin usage, problems like irritable bowel syndrome clear up, etc during this three week program. It is absolutely science-based.

[DocAgocs]

Couple of other things...

1) There is a massive difference between what I do with patients for detoxification (feeding the body what it needs to work properly) and what goes in health food stores as detoxification products. The starvation methods, soups, 3 day programs, etc are great for ramping up Phase I, but without the foods I mentioned, nothing will happen to Phase II. This is why you get so many people who get headaches, diarrhea, skin rashes, etc when they do your average (garbage) detox program. They ramp up Phase I, load their system with reactive intermediates and they feel like crap because of it. Real smart! I have yet to see something available in a health food store for detoxification that would be worth the money. Avoid that stuff.

2) Maybe focusing on weights would be better for you. Cardiovascular is good for heart health, but my understanding is that weight training will burn fat and calories much more efficiently. It also seems to ramp up your metabolism a lot more efficiently. I would definitely work with a trainer on that, though, even if you use machines. The last thing you need is a damaged shoulder or knee right now.

Keep us posted on how things keep going!

[CHRIST1NE]

Jeanne or olive101, are either of you out there??

I re-did my calculations from the website and somehow I goofed up the data entry before. According to my new calculations I can eat 2000 calories (based on 1.5 X BMR, I'm hopefully underestimating a bit) on workout days and 1600 on non-workout days (based on 1.2 X BMR) -- based on 22% body fat. That seems high to me -- even with working out 6 days per week. What do you think? Maybe I should 2000 and 1600 respectively for 2 weeks and see if the wightloss for that period matches the deficit number?

In case you want to double check my numbers I am 36, 5 foot 4 inches, 135 pounds and an assuming 22% body fat (which is probably a little high, but should be a safe number to use)


:) Christine

[CompassRose]

Try it and see. Those calculators are only an average, though.

I'm five-four, and two years ago at 110 pounds I was eating 2000-2400 calories, and tending to lose rather than gain. I was doing mostly running at that point, with a bit of strength training.

Then I hurt myself, mostly stopped running for a while, and ate too many sweets, and something happened. Now, I seem to gain at anything more than 1500 calories or possibly less. I'm currently doing a very high-intensity weight-interval cardio workout, five days a week. (I am not happy about this, either.) That's just variation in one person.

And metabolic studies have shown differences in individuals of the same weight, height and exercise levels of as much as 900 calories per day...

[olive101]

Hi Christine,
When you say the web site calculates that you can 1600-2000 calories depending on whether you work out or not, then that is the amount of calories you can eat to MAINTAIN your current weight. If you want to lose weight at the rate of 1 pound per week (3500 cals per week), then you need to subtract 500 calories a day. Thus, on workout days you should eat 1500 cal and on non workout days you should eat 1100 cals. If you read the site carefully, they suggest you try to eat your BMI number of calories each day in order to lose weight. If your goal is 2 pounds per month, then subtract 250 cals a day. Does that make sense?

Regarding your body fat, if you play around with the BMI calculator, you will notice that a few percentage points one way or the other doesn't dramtically change your BMI calculation, so your estimate of 22% will get you in the ballpark.

[olive101]

One additional thought...
are you accurately tracking your calories, in that you measure and weigh everything you put in your mouth? Are you using Fitday or another calorie tabulator? I ask because almost everyone, myself included, underestimates the calories they consume unless they are super meticulous. I was shocked at how many calories I was eating on my "good" days. I only figured this out when I started using fitday. Also, it is really easy to wipe out your calorie deficit by one "bad" eating incident, like the Heath Bites. It's very difficult-keep up the good work.:)

[CHRIST1NE]

thanks olive101 for getting back with me..

Yes, I did realize that the numbers were to maintain, but they still seem so high to me. And yes, I did play around with the BF% and they made very little difference in the BMR. As for my estimating abilities.. I am super maticulous and have quite the repuation at work because of it. One of the offices has a huge candy bowl that I occasionally get into. I make them save all their bags so I can calculate the calories for the individual pieces as opposed to a serving size (mini candy bars etc) and then I add them to my ongoing quick reference sheet.As for all the other things I eat, I am very conscience of labels and nutritional summaries on recipes and, when ever possible, will total the calories for a recipe, weigh it, and then calculate the calories by weight (as oppsed to serving) as it's so much more accurate in some cases... besides, I just love playing with my digital scale :) And I am a good little journaler. I have food journals going back 4 years or so. With that said, I could review the August calories and use the 1600/2000 numbers and see if the month's deficit was in fact 3500 -- if it is in the ball park, then they are good numbers as that's what I lost, 1 pound. If it's off, maybe I could adjust the 1600/2000 numbers to end up with a 3500 deficit -- make sense?? I'll post tomorrow what the consenous is.

Edited to say: I just re-read my previous post and I neglected to say that I intended to use 1600/2000 to calculate the deficit. Consequently, I know I have to each much less than that in order to loose weight, but I tend to fluxuate from day to day so I plan to track the deficit over the course of the month.

[DocAgocs]

Christine, make sure you don't get too caught up in counting calories and not considering what types of foods you are eating. I guarantee that someone who eats 2000 calories per day of kale, brussels sprouts, beets, and lean meat will lose weight much easier than someone who is eating 2000 calories per day in cheesecake (not that that's what you're doing). The way foods affect key hormones will have as great an impact on weight loss/gain, appetite, etc as the amount being eaten.

[CHRIST1NE]

Thanks, Doc. I agree it is a large part of what makes up the calories. I'm 3 for 4 on your list of foods -- I don't do kale, brussels sprouts or beets, but I do have a very healthy variety of things that I eat and add new and different things regularly -- I recently started replacing WW flour for 1/2 my white flour and adding wheat germ to everything I can and started incorporating tofu into my dinners. Long story short I have come a VERY long way from the white wonder bread, iceberg lettuce, convenience box meals that were my diet up until a few years ago.

Olive101 -- to follow-up on my calorie deficit for August. I came home and crunched all the numbers. The end result was:

Calories burned -- 56000 (based on 1600/2000)
Calories consumed -- 55845 -- oh my :eek:
Deficit -- broke even
Average calories/day -- 1926

Conclusions: I will continue to use the 1600/2000 numbers when calculating my deficts as I think they are pretty accurate. Even though I didn't show a deficit of 3500 calories above, it's close enough and the pound I thought I lost could have easily been water gain/loss, bloating or something.

Olive101, I can't thank you enough for reminding me of that website. I was so excited I made a slick little deficit worksheet for my Franklin Planner. I'm excited to see what happens in Sept -- weight wise and measurement wise :)

[olive101]

No problem Christine,
JeAnne was the one who pointed out the site first (I think), and I love it. It sounds like you have all the tools and motivation you need. Good luck and let us know how you progress!