Please help - Baby doesn't sleep!

[Luv to Cook]

Hi Everyone,

I have not posted in forever...because I am not getting any sleep!!! DH and I had a beautiful baby girl this past June and she just has no desire to sleep. We were in NYC for the summer (DH's MBA internship) and she did okay there, though she slept best on me or right next to me. She could go up to 4-5 hours without waking. I really loved the co-sleeping thing, but when we got back to Charlottesville, it became an all-nite long nursing, throwing up, crying session. Needless to say none of us were sleeping. I took her to the doc and they said put her in crib and let her cry. Well I wasn't to keen on that idea, but I started slowly transitioning her to crib (play in there so she would get used to it). Now she will go down with minimal crying but wakes up 5-6 times a nite to nurse. She will not go back to sleep unless I nurse her. I think its comfort nursing since she doesn't really eat much. She is tiny (not quite 11 lbs yet) so I am hesitant to cut out all nite nursings, but I really don't think she needs that many. BTDT Moms, do you agree? I would think that she needs about 2. I am thinking the wakeups are more habit than necessity.

Naps are a whole other story. I get her to take about 3 or 4 twenty to forty minute naps a day. It is so hard. She would much rather sleep with me. I would love to co-sleep, but I really cannot afford to take two naps a day and go to bed a 7PM. Does anyone have any advice for me...please help!!! My head is spinning and I don't think I can handle letting her cry.


Anita

[lhall]

(((((Anita)))))

I wish I could be more help. I gave birth to two champion sleepers. I'm sure some of the other mom's will have so good advice for you.

Leigh

[clairea]

I don't have a lot of advice, but can certainly offer some sympathy. DS was a lot like your daughter, and those first few months were rough! Since your daughter is so small, I'm sure that affects her night waking. The ped told me you really couldn't expect a baby to sleep all night without eating until they are around 13 pounds (which was hard considering DS didn't hit 13 lbs until 6 months!). Obviously some babies will sleep through at a lower weight, but his point was that a baby smaller than that probably needs a nighttime feeding. We did eventually let DS cry it out, but not until he was about 7 months old. The only thing I can think of is to try letting DH go to her at night. If she is nursing for comfort, she probably isn't going to be satisfied without nursing if she can see/smell you. If all else fails, rest assured that you will eventually get some sleep (and I even did it all over again 2 years later:D ).

Claire

[Svadhisthana]

I don't think you'l like my answer.
Your daughter (3 months old?) sounds perfectly normal to me.
There is a chance that she is going thru a growth spurt and therfore nursing more often. Once your milk supply is built up she will nurse less often.
You could pump in between nursings to help speed up the process. Does she fall asleep durring any of the 5-6 feedings a night? If yes, you can try playing with her feet, removing extra clothes, etc. to get her to stay awake for a full nursing to ensure that she's getting a truly full tummy and not just grabbing a snack to tide her over.

I breastfed both of my kids and neither of them slept thru the night until around nine months of age. Every child is different though-Good Luck.

Crystal

[naomike]

You poor thing! You got me out of lurking on this one. I just had my second child last July, so I empathize!

So, your Dr. told you to let your baby cry it out already??? My Dr. feels strongly that you cannot "spoil" a baby before they are four months old. In other words, there is absolutely no harm in picking them up when they cry thinking they'll get too used to it or something.

With my firstborn, his startle reflex would wake him up if we put him in the crib before he was two to three months old. After that, his startle reflex calmed down and he was a good crib sleeper after that.

Until he was around two months old, we let him sleep in his car seat and he loved it! The Dr. actually advocated this as long as he was strapped in. In fact, if your young baby has a cold (our firstborn did at two weeks old), our Dr really wants the child to sleep in an elevated position and the carseat was a good option for that. And, because the baby is snuggled into the seat, he/she doesn't startle awake so easily.

So, with this baby, we had such good luck with the carseat the first time around that we're doing it again. Pretty soon we'll transition her into the crib, but I'm not in a hurry since it's working so well to get her to sleep a decent stretch at night (4 - 6 hours at a time). During the day, I often let her nap on me (frequently using a Baby Bjorn). (By the way, both babies were/are breastfed.)

At any rate, you'll get a million different answers on how to handle this, but I agree with the above posters that things will hopefully change for you soon and you can get some sleep. I just remembered too that my brother and sister in law let their baby sleep in a swing when she was young (again, strapped in properly and in the room with them). You could try that too if you are comfortable with the safety of your swing.

Good luck, and feel free to PM me to discuss further. I have to go now, or I'd say more. :)

Naomi

P.S. Like I mentioned above, use of a Baby Bjorn is great during the day for your child to sleep on you for a decent length of time and you can at least move around the house to do a couple of things . . .

[naomike]

Another thought. If you think the baby might be waking up frequently because of gas or tummy troubles, you can try Mylicon or Gripewater. You can also examine your diet to see if you are eating any foods that could cause your baby to have an upset tummy.

Also, I bet you've already tried swaddling the baby to see if that helps. (No matter how hard I tried, our babies always seemed to eventually get their arms free and then startle themselves awake. I think maybe the blankets were a bit small.)

Naomi

PS: Ok I thought of one more thing that is probably obvious. Both of my babies (when very young) need/needed to sleep in a very dark and quiet room at night. If they could wake up and see me, I could forget about continuing my slumber. :)

[JoanneOR]

Just wanted to second the idea of letting her sleep in a car seat or swing. My first was a great sleeper, I didn't need to do that. With the second everything was different. I found that he slept much better in the car seat. He hated the swing, though. My third loved the car seat, too. I think it's the enclosure that they like. I would sometimes just set the car seat into the bassinet next to our bed and they'd sleep great.

I kept them in the bassinet (or car seat) until they were 3-4 months. Then I moved them to the crib. Before then, it was just too big for them. They also would spend alot of time sleeping on my chest in those early months. I loved that! Although I didn't sleep too well in that position.

I think you'll see a change in her sleep habits soon. She is still pretty tiny and probably needs the nourishment. She may really be hungry.

Hang in there. It will get better!!

[claire797]

You poor thing! It seems like just yesterday I was posting the same thing about my little DD. I truly feel for you. I wish I had some great advice, but all I can say is that it does get better and the best thing you can do right now is read a lot of Dr. Sears.

Feel free to PM if you're interested in hearing what worked for us :).

[Luv to Cook]

Thanks so much everyone for the advice. I just want to note that I am not trying to cut out all her nite feedings by any means, but was wondering if she really needs to eat every two hours at nite. I think she went thru her 3 month growth spurt already (eating every hour around the clock). And since this has been going on for so long I don't think its a growth spurt anymore, purely habit. In my doc's defense, he told me to let her cry it out because nothing else was working. DD wanted to nurse constantly when I was with her. I absolutely love Dr. Sears, and most of his ideas work for us, except for the nite sleeping. We tried co-sleeping and having her with DH, but she just inches over towards me at nite and wants to just hang out on my boob all nite. With her tiny tummy this was not working since she would just end up being miserable and crying all nite (from 4-6 AM) DH and I would take turns rocking her. I had her in a bassinet for a while too, but everytime she saw me (it was next to my bed) she wanted me. She has been in crib for two weeks so I don't want to transition her to another sleeping space...I think that would just confuse her more.

DD hates the swing...lol. She gives me this look "hey, what do you think your doing?!?!?" She does have reflux, but she is on Zantac which is working beautifully. I also have elevated her crib mattress (at an angle) to help with reflux. I have also eliminated dairy from my diet since she MAY have a milk allergy. I do swaddle her at nite. As a matter of fact I have the Miracle Blanket (swaddling blanket). She used to love it, now she is okay about it.

Joanne, I love, love, love it when she sleeps on me as well. It is the best feeling in the world. But after 3 1/2 months of getting no sleep like that, I feel its time for a change. DD is such a light sleeper too. LOL, about the Bjorn, I tried to get her to nap in that, but she is so interested in everyhting that she can never sleep in it. She just always wants to look around!

Anyhow, I appreciate all the suggestions...and it helps to know that I am not alone. It seems like I am surrounded by friends with good sleepers, so it can make me crazy. I am trying so hard not to compare kids, because I have learned that everyone has something that they have to deal with. And I am blessed to have such a great kid otherwise. I keep telling myself that soon this will pass and I will miss having a teeny, tiny baby all to myself!!!

BUT, we did have a pretty good nite last nite. She woke up 3 times to nurse. I am all for small victories! And she took a 40 minute nap this morning...yipeee!

Thanks again, especially in letting me know that I am not alone!

Anita

[DocAgocs]

Here is a suggestion that I'm sure will be unpopular, but if you have a family chiropractor or you can get a referral to someone you know, get your baby checked out and adjusted if needed. This type of thing is probably the #1 thing that chiropractors who specilize in pediatrics deal with and see amazing results. Chiropractic care is extremely safe and with kids it is truly amazing how dramatically and quickly it can help. Usually with babies the problem is in the upper cervical area (first fe vertebrae in the neck) as a result from the birthing process. Studies have been done in peer-reviewed journals about colicky babies and chiropractic and the results are astounding. I believe one was just published in the last year, in fact.

Am I saying this is the answer? No. What I'm saying is to get the baby checked by a good chiropractor who knows how to do an exam on babies and has a busy practice with kids (you may not be able to find someone with post graduate degrees in pediatrics depending where you are, but if the doctor's practice is at least 25-50% kids that's the one you want) and see if an adjustment is needed. I have personally seen babies whose parents look like the walking dead fall asleep right after an adjustment and stay down for hours and the problem is solved, so if chiropractic can help expect a fast result. Good luck and before anyone decides they want to slam me ask me to produce studies first, or go to the International Chiropractic Pediatrics Association website and see them for yourself.

[claire797]

Hey! 3 times! That's a little victory. After awhile it will narrow down to 2 and then 1 and then finally, you will sleep through the night. It takes longer for some babies to adjust, but at least you've gotten her used to the crib. The progress is slow-going and sometimes, you will have set-backs. But you have a good attitude and are heading in the right direction.

DocAgocs, had I read your post a year and a half ago I would have been out the door on my way to a chiropractor. I never would have thought chiropractors could help with sleep issues. Interesting.

[cchhbb]

Luv to Cook, I'm sorry for your situation. I can certainly feel for you. I have an almost 11 month old little boy so can relate.

I found that my son slept better at night if he wasn't where he could smell, see, touch me. When we go on vacation and he has to sleep in my room he wakes up much more. I also wake up with every little noise he makes.

I transitioned Garrett into his crib about 4 months. Before that he slept in a bassinet in his room. I swaddled him at night for a long time and it certainly helped him sleep better.

I'm going to a presentation by Dr. Jodi Mindell, a sleep expert. My son has the night sleep thing figured out, but is terrible about napping. I'll try to post tomorrow what her 'recipe' is for good sleeping.

Just a note about reflux. My son has it, but not badly enough to be medicated. He still eats more frequently than a lot of children (like every 2 1/2 hours during the day). I do know that reflux babies are often soothed by sucking. The saliva helps to move food through their tummies. Perhaps she might be willing to take a pacifier. Since your breastfeeding is well established, a pacifier shouldn't affect that.

Good luck and it does get better.

Cheryl

[RunnerKim]

((Anita)) I don't have much to add other than it will get better. Lainey's a good sleeper (and always has been relatively) but I think at 3 months she was still waking up at least once a night (and not going to sleep until late). I always laughed when people would ask if she was sleeping through the night and I'd say "Sure, if you count not going to bed until 11pm - Midnight" Her 8pm bed time didn't evolve until a couple of months later.

Can you try nursing less (perhaps just on one side) to help "wean" her of the nighttime feedings. She's young at this point, but I know moms with older babies that have had success giving a bottle with water. Provides comfort but not calories so they don't get used to eating.

Kim

[naomike]

I do NOT want to hijack your thread, but now I'm really curious. How do you know when a baby has reflux instead of just spitting up a lot? I'm really very curious.

I have lots of other supportive comments I want to say, but I have to go drive DS to preschool. I'll try again later!! (By the way, DS wasn't a huge swing fan either, I'm still holding out hope for DD.)

Naomi

[Luv to Cook]

Thanks again everyone. Doc, I never thought of that...it is certainly something to consider. We live in Charlottesville, VA...I would assume there are not many pediatric chiros around??? Maybe I will look into that.

Anyhow, I am hoping things get better with time. I really do not want to rush her if she is not ready. RunnerKim, I already nurse on one side only and just switch breasts each feeding. I tried feeding her for a shorter amount of time...that just made her get up earlier for the next feed ;) ! But she does go down around 7 so I guess that is great. She was going to bed around 10, but all of a sudden it seemed like she couldn't make it that late?!??!

Cheryl, I would love to her what you learn in the presentation. DD eats quite often as well. Anywhere from 1 1/2 hours to 3 hours. When I hear about 3-4 hour babies I am so shocked! I do give her a pacifier...that in itself is becoming a bit of an issue...she cries when it falls out!!! I joke with DH saying that the little holes on the side are for elastic to strap around her head!!!

Well, I am hoping things turn around themselves. I do not want to let her cry herself to sleep. Has anyone read the No-Cry sleep solution? I have so many darn books now, but maybe this one can help???

Naomi, we figured out Asha had reflux when she was about 2 weeks old. She was crying ALL the time, morning, noon and nite. Wanted to nurse all day long because it soothed the burn. But the more she ate, the more it came up....became a vicious cycle. I kept taking her to the doc and they kept saying it was colic. I went back like 4 times and told them something is wrong. Always trust your intuition. She was always crying. Finally, they prescribed Zantac and within 2 weeks she was doing soooo much better. The Zantac reduced the acid. Still spitting alot, but no crying. Now she doesn't spit nearly as much. I think some docs do an actual test. A pH test that measures the acidity in the esophagus.

I am a little encouraged by last nite and am hoping it lasts. Thanks for all the support!

Anita

[nori]

Anita, I could have started this thread! My DS turned 1 on Aug 29th and not a good sleeper, so I can really, really realte.

I can't let him cry out either, so I'd go in to pick him up and nurse whenever he cries. This is my first child, and I breastfeed him, now I believe those night time feeding is really what it increases your milk supply. I think mine was established around 3 or 4 months.

I have no-cry sleep solution book. It is a very good book, a lot of ideas you can start using right away. I think there was a thread about this book on BB....maybe you can search for it. (Sorry don't know how to link it:o )

At 3 or 4 months, I did nurse him randomly, but whenever he wanted. Getting up at night several times became my habit, and I can't recall how it is to sleep through the night.:rolleyes: I'm trying to slowly wean him, so mostly I try to rock him to sleep but some nights I'm too sleepy to do those things, and just nurse him. I know I have to be consistent, but it's hard.

Do you try to establish night time routine?? That's one thing the book (No-cry sleep solution) talks about. Like giving her a bath, read books etc? We did make night time routine and now after nursing, I can put him in the crib, he'd roll around for a while, then go to sleep by himself. Problem is, still he wakes up at middle of the night.

If you can handle those night time awakenings, especially at her age, I'd say you should nurse her full each time. Noah seemed very hungry at night, although everyone around us said he should do fine without nursing at night. I could tell he was hungry. And again, there's a growth spurt. If you're an end of rope and still don't want her to cry, I'd recommend to buy the no-cry solution book. If you follow the program, I'm sure something would change. As I said, there are a lot of good ideas you can use so that's not a bad idea to have one around.

Hang in there, just remember you're not alone. PM me if you need to talk more or vent.

:D

[Robyncz]

Poor thing! I've been there, too. And I feel like I can tell you with some authority that it's probably not anything you are doing or not doing. Kids are different. I have two daughters, 16 months apart. DD #1 slept through the night at 6 weeks and continues to sleep all night, every night unless she is sick. Then there is DD #2. Another story altogether. . . And, sadly, I have no real answers. In the end, we let her cry it out. Several different times. And each time she gets sick and has to be comforted in the night the whole darn thing starts again (sigh). She's 2 1/2 years old, and I'd say she sleeps all night about 75% of the time.

While I have no answers, I can say you are not alone. And to prove it, I did a search with the words "baby won't sleep" and got no less than 56 threads on these BBs. Glancing over them, there were probably 5 that can be weeded out (because they are clearly about cats or dogs or something like that). But the rest of them are moms asking the exact same questions you are. It might be comforting to take a look at some of them.

Anyway, someday you will sleep again. And get this--one day you'll realize that that beautiful little creature doesn't need you quite as much as she did the first few months, and you'll actually *miss* those sweet, cuddly, slurpy, sighing, gurgling nights.

Good luck!

[cchhbb]

Luv to Cook,

I have read the No Cry Sleep Solution book and highly recommend it. Essentially, regardless of what book you read, they all end up saying the same thing. Establish a routine and teach your child to self soothe to sleep.

One thing the experts said last night was that a child under the age of 3 -4 months shouldn't cry it out. Also, this is the time to transition to the crib if you have been co sleeping. After this time, it is much harder.

I really liked Jodi Mindell last night. She was probably a middle ground in teaching your child to sleep. She does advocate crying it out, but not for long periods of time. I really would like to read her book in more detail before I have a second child.

Remember, a breastfed baby does need to be fed during the night for quite some time. The experts were lecturing a lot of people who thought their young babies should be sleeping through the night, that their child really does need to be fed during the night.

One thing I wish I would have done when Garrett was younger was establish a schedule. Schedule feedings and sleep time. We're trying to do that now and it is much harder.

PM me with some specific questions if I can help. It does get better.

((((((Luv to Cook))))))

Cheryl

[DocAgocs]

DocAgocs, had I read your post a year and a half ago I would have been out the door on my way to a chiropractor. I never would have thought chiropractors could help with sleep issues. Interesting.
Probably one of the most often reported "side effects" from my adult patients is that they sleep better when they get adjusted regularly. I don't know whether it's the comfort aspect, just a calmer, more coordinated nervous system or what, but I get that a lot.


We live in Charlottesville, VA...I would assume there are not many pediatric chiros around??? Maybe I will look into that.
Well, all chiropractors who are good with kids are not necessarily degreed in post-graduate pediatrics. Your best bet is always a good recommendation from someone who you trust. But, a great place to start with some research is the International Chiropractic Pediatrics Association website at:
http://www.icpa4kids.com/

Very nicely done and more studies here to look at than you can shake a stick at! Good luck!

[Kristilyn1]

both my kids are excellent sleepers but since I believe the WORST chiropractic can do is not work---I would have burned rubber to one if one of my kids was having trouble sleeping. But I probably would try ANYTHING to get past the stage where babies don't sleep.......


Kristi
who can't STAND having her sleep deprived!

[Luv to Cook]

Well its still on and off over here...some good days some bad!

We have a whole new issue. The pacifier! She cries when it falls out...and I have to end up running in to put back in. I am thinking I can keep this up until she can put it in herself. Anyone have any advice here? Also, I have noticed when I put DD down to sleep with the paci, she starts screaming for like 10 minutes, then I put the paci in again and she is fine. If I try and put it in before she has had a chance to scream, she gets all riled up she just cries longer. I would really like to put her down calm with the pacifier. This is more at naptime than any other. Anyone heard of this???

Cheryl, I forgot to ask...did Jodi mention anything about naps? They are a nightmare at my house. She just does not want to sleep during the day, even though she is exhausted!!!

Nori, glad to know I am not alone. It is so hard to hear the little one cry, isn't it? We do have a bedtime routine...and naptime routine as well, but it hasn't solved anything yet. It does help me alot though.

Maybe I will try No-cry sleep solution. So far I have read Dr. Sears, baby whisperer and Healthy sleep habits, happy child. All good ideas, but I wish there was an in-between method, between Sears and cry it out.

Anita

[cchhbb]

Luv to Cook.

I'd recommend Jodi Mindell as a in between person. I thought that Healthy sleep habits healthy child was extreme. I also thought that Dr. Sears was a bit of an extreme in an opposite way.

Here's what Jodi said on naps.

1. Put your child on a schedule. She did an in between demand and schedule when it came to feeding. For example, if her daughter was scheduled to eat at 9 and 12, but was hungry at 10:30, she fed her then and again at 12:00. That put her back on schedule.

2. Create a consistent routine for both bedtime and naptime. It should only take 20 minutes or so.

3. Teach your child to self soothe.

4. do not let more than 2 hours of awake time pass before your child should sleep again. For example, if your daughter wakes at 6:00 am she should be down for a nap before 8:00 am. Also, put your child to bed as soon as they look tired.

She didn't have anything in her book about naptime, but I ended up talking to her in detail since DS is a horrible napper.

Remember, your DD is still really young. She is just starting to regulate her sleep. Everything I've read says children under 4 months can't really regulate sleep.

Hope this helps. I don't have anything to say about the pacifier issue. Mindell also said that if your child gets too tired then they will cry longer than if you put them to bed the moment they get tired.

Cheryl

[hrk]

((Anita))
I am so sorry to hear you and your baby are not getting any sleep. Since I am a new first time mother the only advice I can offer is my own experience. After Logan's two month visit his slepping got all messed up and he was up every two hours. At first I thought he was hungry so I would nurse him, but he would only eat for like 4 minutes and go back to sleep, so after about 4 days of this I realized that he really wasn't hungry. So DH would go in when he cried and try and soothe him back to sleep if he woke beofre about 5 hours of sleep (which he did often) but he was very hard to soothe so we started using the pacifier to calm him cause it was so hard to listen to him cry
BIG MISTAKE
He became completely dependent on the pacifier to the point where he was up every hour because it would fall out and he would need it put back in. And to compound things we were in the middle of switching pediatricians(another long story) so when I met with the new one he said we had to break him of the pacifier. And this is what we did based on his advice- we made sure we had a bedtime routine- bath, book and then nurse. He should nurse for his normal length of time which for us was 10 minutes on each side and we should keep him awake by using cold water, no clothes etc to help him nurse the full time. Then rock him to sleep and if he cries in our arms just continue to soothe him and pat him until he falls asleep. ( the first night Logan cried for 25 minutes in my arms, but it got much better after that and after 4 days he only cired maybe a minute or two) Then if Logan woke before 5-6 hours, DH or I should go in and just rub his belly and pat him and reassure him with our voice but don't pick him up and let him cry until he falls back asleep. (again the first night Logan cried for 40 minutes at oone point with me patting him the whole time, but by the fifth night we were back to normal sleeping which for us was waking at 2 to feed and then sleeping again until 6). Now if he does wake for any reason earlier in the evening, it takes about 2 minutes of soothing to get him back to sleep.
Doing this was not easy by any means and it was a very long week, but Logan is a much happier baby during the day now because he is getting a full nights sleep and he still gives big smiles and talks to us so I don't think we have destroyed his trust in us or anything else. Logan was about 31/2 months when we did this also so we knew he could go at least a few hours without needing to be fed at night. And finally the best advice my pediatrician gave me was always follow your heart. He said if your ready to make a cahnge and you know that what you are doing is right in your heart and you and your DH are in agreement than it will be much easier- and the truth be told it was not that bad and DH and I were there to support each other.
I hope that maybe this helps, as I said this was our experience. If you need more support or advice or just a shoulder please PM me.
Heather

[Luv to Cook]

Well, it is like one step forward, two steps back. I appreciate hearing everyones stories and knowing that it will eventually get better. Right now, I have a hard time believing that things will ever improve :( . I am so sad now, crying all the time. I just rocked her to deep sleep for a nap. I cannot handle letting her cry, especially when DH is not home to hold me down, so I keep going to her. As I near her crib during naptime, she just starts crying. Nighttime sleep is slightly better, but naps are horrendous (20 - 45 minutes). Heather, I should probably get rid of the paci, huh? I am so scared to do that. I feel like its the only thing that comforts her.

Anyhow, I am not sure what else to do. I just want my baby to sleep...and fall asleep happily. I cannot stand to hear her cry. The doc told me to feed her at 10 and 2 at nite and if she cries at other times not to get her. Well, poor thing doesn't have a watch. How is she supposed to figure out that sometimes my mommy gets me and other times she doesn't! DD will nap for 2 hours at a time if I sleep with her. So the doc suggested that I sleep with her at naps for a week to get her used to sleeping for that long and then start putting her in crib. I am so scared to do that...I just don't want to get all the way back to square one. I know the doc is just trying to help out and he is probably running out of ideas (I have been there once a week for the past 4 weeks!).

Well, I just wanted to vent a little. My head hurts, I have a lump in my throat, and I am very sleepy. I just feel like there are so many mommies out there who would rock their babies to sleep and hold them all day...I feel guilty. :( :( :( :(

Anita

[cchhbb]

((((((Anita))))))

Don't feel guilty. You just want the best for your DD. It does get better. I think being consisent is really important. Develop a routine and stick with it. Dr. Mindell, who I saw last week, says that you should teach your child to self soothe and then go to them whenever they awake at night. Maybe you can try that.

This is a really tough thing. When I was at the sleep seminar, I was shocked to hear how many older babies are doing the same thing as you DD. You are not alone.

Cheryl

[Personal Chef]

I hope my two cents are too late. My son is almost a year old. He was not a great sleeper either. Your baby is too little to sleep train yet but two good books that follow different philosophies are Healthy Child, Healthy Sleep (I think that's the name) by Marc Weissbluth and No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley.

Once your baby is about 16 weeks you can try to start with the regular naps. The morning nap comes first between 12-16 weeks and then 6-8 weeks the regular afternoon nap. Also infants need to sleep every 2 hours until these naps develop.

I think that once your baby reaches 12 lbs sleep will begin to stretch at night. The pacifier won't do much good at this point since your baby doesn't know how to put it back in and will wake up when it falls out.

I didn't read all the posts so I'm sorry if I'm repeating info. You may also want to try a white noise machine, swaddling, putting a heating pad down on the sheets while your feeding your baby to keep the sheets warm and then remove the pad after you put your baby back to sleep. You could try lullaby cds playing over and over again too.

Trust me when I say that it does get better. Unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do right now except try different methods and see what sticks.

My son would fall asleep almost immediately when we put on the fan over the stove.

Now my son sleeps through the night. That started around 5 months with a lot of crying. Unfortunately the nice guy method did not work with him. Naps are short though. About 1 hour in the morning and 1 1/2 hours in the afternoon.

Good luck!

[naomike]

Hi! I'm sorry you're still not getting much sleep!!! Can anyone come over and spell you for a few hours so you can take a nap?? You deserve it!!

Thank you for the info on reflux. I've heard of babies taking Zantac, and I was always curious about the difference between a reflux baby and a baby who just spits up a lot. :)

It sounds like you've really brainstormed lots of ideas, and a lot of other moms have posted their ideas too. My last comment is to make sure your baby isn't uncomfortable or hurting in some way that is keeping her from sleeping well. I say that because whenever my babies get into the feeding frenzy that you described in your first post (eating, spitting up, eating more, over and over) they usually have an upset tummy and are nursing for comfort. Personally, I distinguish that from "cluster nursing" where a baby is eating really frequently because she's hungry and having a growth spurt.

At any rate, you mentioned reflux and that the baby is on Zantac. Is there any chance she's gained weight and needs a higher dosage of Zantac? Also, I know you didn't want to use the carseat, but you could try elevating her crib mattress a little more to see if that helps at all . . . Also, since you're only nursing one side at a time I'm sure she's getting enough hindmilk but that's something else that can cause a baby to be fussy and not sleep as well (if her poop is yellow then that usually means she's getting plenty of hindmilk). Of course, I'm sure you already knew all about that . . .

I know you must feel like you've tried everything, and I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Like I said above, I can also tell that you've researched all kinds of possibilities and solutions, and I really hope something works for you soon!

(((Anita)))

Naomi

[Luv to Cook]

Cheryl, so how does Jodi say to teach your child to self-soothe? Is it by crying? I know that I am consistent in my routines, but not consistent in letting her cry. If DH is home I am able to let her cry a bit. If not, I go get her. I know she is probably confused. It also seems like she needs to scream and then I have to sneak in the paci for her to calm down. I am scared to take it away in fear of her just screaming all day and nite.

Personal Chef...I have heard about the 12 lbs as well. DD is now 11 lbs. 4 oz. I am not sure that she will sleep with the extra weight. I really do not mind the night nursings....but I want them to decrease and I want her to be able to sleep during the day (without crying...is there such a thing?!?!) I read Weissbluths book and it leaves me with even more questions. I think he knows his stuff but the crying bit I have issues with. For example, if I put DD down for a nap and she cries herself to sleep and wakes up in 45 minutes...am I supposed to let her cry herself to sleep again in order to get a full nap? That would just kill me. Or am I supposed to just let her catnap. Right now we get about 3-4 30-45 minute naps a day...with crying involved. Today I could not handle the crying so I just held her until she slept...see there is my inconsistency. Weissbluth also made me feel if I didn't follow his technique 100% than I would wreck everything. I feel alot of books are like that. I really like to pick and choose what works for me & my family.

Naomi, I thought with the all-nite nursing she was probably upset with our move and was nursing for comfort. But it started to become more habitual. I took her to the doc on Friday and she put on some weight (1 lb in a week...yeahhhh!), but he did not want to adjust the Zantac...she is already taking alot. I have elevated her mattress by putting towels underneath it. It is interesting that you mention the hindmilk issue. When we first discovered her reflux the doc told me to only feed her for 10 minutes at a time to minimize spitting. When I went to the doc two weeks ago the doc (a different one in the practice) told me to feed her longer to make sure she is getting the hindmilk. We thought perhaps she wasn't getting hindmilk and that is why she wasn't sleeping (she was hungry??)...I was so hopeful that it would fix everything. She is getting hindmilk now (her poos have changed from yellow watery to cottage cheese consistency). I am thinking about trying to put her on her tummy after she falls asleep to see if that would help her sleep longer...anyone try that? I am a little chicken to try.

Anyhow I really want things to get better on their own...without having to sleep train. She just woke up...twenty minutes. What am I to do? I know nothing is wrong with her healthwise. She just cannot stay asleep or go back to sleep. After she wakes up I cannot even help her back to sleep again. I don't know...I appreciate everyones comments and understand that there is no easy answer. I just cannot wait for things to get better. At this point I am just praying to the sleep Gods. Maybe DD doesn't need to sleep that much? Is that possible?

Do babies learn to fall asleep on their own without having to resort to CIO? Or is it the Sears way or CIO the only two ways to go? I guess I will get the No-cry solution book. I feel like I am reading too many books and just confusing myself more and more.

I just want to say how much I appreciate everyone's comments and thank you all for being so civil. I know that talk about crying it out can be pretty divisive and that on other boards anyone who mentioned it would be attacked.

thank you.
Anita

[tbb113]

I've stayed out of this since my children are older...but every child is different. My mother says that I was a HORRIBLE sleeper. I was on pheno-barbitol until I was one because MY MOTHER needed me to sleep. She says it made me fall asleep while I was being fed (no wonder, she mixed it into the formula) :rolleyes: While I'm not suggesting you or ANYONE should drug their child (and this was almost 44 years ago), I didn't nap much. She says I was the only child that no matter when you came to visit...I was up.

So, its possible that your daughter might not need that much sleep. I realize that it is hard on you since you still need your rest.

Regarding back sleeping vs stomach sleeping...I know that the new theory is to put a child on their back, but most of us were put to bed on our stomachs. I wouldn't tell you what to do, but you might bring it up with your doctor.

Tyra

[sharris315]

I have not read all--or most--of the other posts, so sorry if I repeat...

From the time my dd was born, she never napped during the day. (I was always so envious of friends with long-napping babies :) ) By evening, she was tired and always slept through the night--was up at dawn, but slept through the night. In my case, the times she DID for some reason sleep during the day, she did not sleep as well at night. (If I nap during the day, I don't sleep well, either) Her pediatrician said some babies don't need as much sleep--she has always been bright and very alert and, now grown, still doesn't need as much sleep as most of us.

Could it be that your dd is in the same catagory. As I said, maybe this has been covered, but if you don't push for daytime napping, does she sleep better at night?

Shar

[Luv to Cook]

Hmmm, I thought about that as well. Maybe she doesn't need as much sleep. She is a pretty happy kid. But when she starts rubbing her eyes and pulling at her ears, I have to assume she is sleepy. And since she sleeps so well on me or next to me, I would think that she enjoys the naps, just not alone??? I love to sleep with her, but it seems like it has to be all or nothing. Sleep with your baby and do it all the time, or do not sleep with your baby ever, because if you do sometimes, it just confuses them. I would like to have a family bed as well, but not during the day because I cannot nap during the day with her. Make sense? I guess I am just sad as well because I really wanted to co-sleep and now I am mourning the loss of it. Kind of like how some women really want to breastfeed and they cannot. I know these years are going to fly by and I will miss her little breaths on my face when she sleeps...caressing her chubby little cheeks, running my fingers thru her babysoft hair :(.

Anita

[rosie_one]

awwww... those were the days.

Don't feel too sad over this though. Whatever works or doesn't, the next stage in baby's life is as completely precious and all engrosing as this one is. I've never met a mommy who didn't have at least a little baby blues... make sure you have a good friend to talk to or even a therapist if you feel you need it to help you get through the tough stuff. Especially when sleep deprived I found it pretty hard to know which way was up sometimes. Needed help finding my way through it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking that emotional support.

[KristaMB]

Anita,

I don't have many answers but maybe my story will help. My plan wasn't to co-sleep, but I fell into that routine because it worked best for me. I could nurse and sleep and DS would sleep longer and I didn't have to get up a million times a night. Unfortunately, I was waking up a lot to make sure DH wasn't too close to the baby. Also DH was in a very rigorous academic program, and waking up so much at night was not doing wonders for him, so something had to be done. DS was better about naps, but this is how I did it at night.

At 2.5 months I started sleeping on the futon in DS' room. I kept his room dark so he couldn't see me. I would try to get him to sleep in his crib, but often it didn't work. If I couldn't get him to fall asleep by rubbing his back, I would eventually bring him onto the futon with me. After he fell asleep, I would move him to his crib and go back to sleep on the futon. I repeated this for about two days, and then I did a modified CIO type program. I didn't read any books, I just kind of started something on my own. At first I let him cry for a few minutes (not sure how long, a song or two on his lullaby CD :o ) before I went to him, then tried rubbing his back, then if that didn't work after a few songs I'd lay down with him on the futon, let him fall asleep, and then move him back to his crib. (Often I would fall asleep too, and I would move him if/ when I woke up) I gradually increased the time it took for me to go to him and he learned to soothe himself.


Originally posted by Luv to Cook
I am thinking about trying to put her on her tummy after she falls asleep to see if that would help her sleep longer...anyone try that? I am a little chicken to try.

I know this goes against all of the rules, but I think a lot of my success has to do with the fact that I did start putting DS down on his tummy. He slept so much better on his tummy. I was scared, but I checked him often the first few weeks. I was desperate for some sleep and none of the SIDS "risk factors" applied. I can't remember them all, but I know smoking was one, soft matresses and I think maybe a certain type of rubber on the mattress. Yes, I know there was still a risk but I was at wits end.

Best of luck to you. ((Anita))
Krista

[cchhbb]

Anita,

Mindell does recommend a cry it out approach, but only one time per day. Her theory is that if you teach a child to go to bed on his own then he will be able to self soothe back to sleep at night. She also doesn't say you have to let your child cry for hours without checking on them.

I was blessed with a good night sleeper. He is a terrible napper and is best when he co-sleeps with me. It was not my intention to co-sleep with him, but I needed to get some rest and that was the only way it would work for awhile.

I've read a few books and I think the No Cry Sleep Solution book is the gentlist way of teaching your child to sleep. It probably will take a lot longer than other methods. I also head the Healthy Sleep Habits Healthy Child and it made me really question everything I was doing as a mom. I didn't need the guilt or to be judged. It also didn't work for us for naps. All it did was make DS really mad. I told the hospital sleep specialist that after 8 days of no naps and 2 hours of crying each day that I was either going to kill my child or kill myself. I was physically in pain listening to him cry. I couldn't eat and since it was for naps DH was at work.

I hope things get better.

[slknight]

Originally posted by Luv to Cook
I am thinking about trying to put her on her tummy after she falls asleep to see if that would help her sleep longer...anyone try that? I am a little chicken to try.



Yes, Alex is a tummy sleeper.

Please, no one flame me for it. We started with a few naps at first, while he napped next to me on the bed while I read or worked. And it seemed to work great. So we eventually switched him to sleeping on his tummy in the crib at night, I'd say around 2-3 months. Prior to that, he mostly slept either in the carseat or the swing. He is really a great sleeper, and has been sleeping through the night for several months now (he's 5 mos). I do attribute it to tummy sleeping though.

I know this goes against the AAP recommendations. But it felt right for us, and we did it. We do have a motion sensitive monitor (Angel Care monitor). It has a sensor that goes under the crib mattress, and if there is no breathing/movement for a certain amount of time (20 secs, I think), an alarm goes off. He does set it off about once a night because he is a wiggle worm and ends up at the other end of the crib where the sensor doesn't pick up. This monitor is totally worth it, and I don't think we would have put him on his tummy if we didn't have it. Now he's able to roll over, so I don't feel so guilty about it.

There, I've confessed. :o :o

Susan

[Luv to Cook]

Krista, your story is alot like mine. We started to co-sleep, but DH is also in school for his MBA. He schedule was crazy and he sleeps like a log. I was so paranoid at nite...and none of us were sleeping. I wanted a family bed, but with DH in the guest room, it really wasn't a family bed...more mother and baby bed. Anyhow, nights are somewhat better. I have gotten better at not rushing to her little phantom baby sounds. Turns out she sometimes cries out in her sleep but isn't really awake. So I am trying to really listen before shoving my boob in her mouth everytime I hear a noise. I think it is lessening her nite awakenings. We will see. Still putting her down is somewhat of a challenge. Like today she was crying so much that I just grabbed her and cuddled her to sleep. I don't want her to think that crying is the only way to sleep. Does your DS still cry himself to sleep? I have read that that is what sometimes happens with CIO. I don't want DD to think that is the way.

Cheryl, do you agree with Mindell? I think DD is learning to sleep at nite on her own, but during the day it is so different. Maybe she knows I come to her more quickly? But it seems like she cannot self-soothe during day like she can at nite. I slept with her for her nap today and she slept for 2 1/2 hours. I wish she could do that without me! She was sooo happy afterwards. Sounds like your DS and my DD are alot alike when it comes to naps. How is it that day sleep and nite sleep differ so much?!?!?

I picked up the No-cry sleep solution today. Will post after I have read it. Seems like some of the ideas are the same...have a routine, put baby down awake. These are things I am already doing. But there is still some crying. I did not like Weissbluth's attitude either. I liked his science behind sleep, but he made me feel as though if I did not let DD cry it out, that I was setting her up for a lifetime of bad sleep, ADD, and a host of other problems.

Susan, I have not tried the tummy thing yet. I am not sure how to get her on her tummy :o . If I put her down awake on her tummy, she just lifts her chest and is looking all around. Doesn't take too long for her to get pissed! I want to try it with naps first so I can watch her. But I am finding that I have to rock her with her naps...then trying to flip her on her tummy..not sure how it works. Tell me what you did.

Thanks for the encouragement Rosie. Some days I just get so sad and want DD with me all the time. Other days I just wish she would sleep on her own. Every day I wish for some sort of routine so that we can go out and do things after her naps. But it's like we hang out all day at home, while I watch for her sleepy cues to get her down for a nap!

I appreciate all the responses and support. When I am done reading this book I think I will post a synopsis of all the books I have read in hopes of helping other new moms! I am at the point where I don't think I can read much more....is there such a thing as too much information :p .

Anita

[Personal Chef]

Anita, I agree with your comments regarding Weissbluth's approach. I compromised between cry-it-out and no-cry. Until I went to bed for the night, I would respond to each cry my son made by giving him his pacifier (that was why he would wake up because it fell out). I would not speak to him, not turn the light on, touch him, or pick him up. I would zip in, pop the pacifier in and zip right out. If he cried in the middle of the night, I would allow myself to go in once. After that, my son was on his own. If he woke up again, I turned the monitor off and went back to sleep. The decision to do that was quite liberating. I didn't have to let him cry in the middle of the night too often. Believe me I hated it but exhaustion took over and I had to do it or go insane.

One thing that the no-cry solution states which I never thought of regarding consolidating day naps is to rock your baby back to sleep or use whatever comforting methods you choose. I did this and sometimes I would get stuck rocking my son for 15-20 minutes because he'd wake up as soon as I'd put him down. So you may want to give a soothing method a try to continue the nap. Both books say that naps should be at least 1 hour long to be considered restful for your baby.

Your baby will also learn to self-soothe once the hands are discovered and your baby learns to place them the mouth.

Eventually, the night feedings will become habit for your baby and not nutritional. Talk to your doctor about it and/or a lactation consultant (if you're still nursing when you make your decision about night feedings) and see what they say.

I stopped night feedings when my son was about 16 weeks because I realized that he would wake up soon after a night feeding and in my heart I knew he wasn't hungry. So that's why I started with the pacifier at night.

Good luck. I feel your frustration and exhaustion.

[MrsReber]

DS is a great sleeper at night, but he was a tummy sleeper. I can confess, too! We even had to sign a paper for the daycare. I told them that he absolutely will not nap on his back. I did check on him often and he was fine (and he never got that flat head from sleeing on his back!). Not to advocate it, I know it is not recommended. However, you did say that your daughter is not happy on her tummy so this may not work for you. What my DH did was (again, not recommended by any doctor anywhere) get a pillow and position it so it was sort of under DS's tummy. This way, he would feel as though he were sleeping on mommy. In reality, my son was flipping and squirming his way onto his stomach from the day we brought him home.

As far as the night feedings, I agree that maybe DD is falling asleep and not eating as much as she should. I had the same problem with my daughter. She'd only drink a little milk at one time so she never stayed full all night. She was getting up at least twice a night until she was almost 1 year old. After a while, I'd simply comfort her when she woke up. DH got pretty good at getting up with her and getting her back to sleep. I do remember those days, though. DD slept with us for a good three months before I went back to work. I knew that we had to get her in the crib. It took a bit of patience on my part, but it eventually worked. It's just recently, at 28 months, that she actually sleeps all night without waking up. All kids are different.

Good luck with things. I know how horrible sleep deprivation can be!

[naomike]

Well, I can't seem to resist. I'm chiming in one more time.

I have to agree with several of the above posters--my DS was a great night sleeper but not a good day napper until he was an older baby, six months at least (I can't exactly remember). Even then, DS basically took one long nap in the afternoon and the rest of the day he cat-napped or not at all. Like Shar, I was happy DS slept at night so I didn't worry about it much. I also recall that when DS was a younger baby, I did let him nap on me to get longer naps out of him (that's when I got my dose of co-sleeping which is so nice like you said). :)

The other comment I was going to make is that I rocked or nursed DS to sleep as a younger baby and he was still able to self-sooth in the middle of the night (I think the darkness really helped keep him asleep). I make that comment because, based on that experience, I don't think you absolutely have to put a baby to bed awake for them to learn to self sooth in the middle of the night. Of course, I know every baby is totally different, but that was just my experience. In fact, my DD (who just turned two months old) is now sleeping 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 hours straight at night (self-soothing in the middle of the night) but I am definitely not putting her to bed awake by any means. (Remember--DD is sleeping strapped into her carseat, not a crib yet, and this is a pretty new phenomenon. We'll see if it lasts.) For now, DD also naps best during the day if she's sleeping on me.

At any rate, I think everyone just works by trial and error until they find a routine and method right for them. Just do what feels right to you. If it doesn't feel right, then try something else. :)

Again, I wish you all the luck in the world, and I'm happy to hear that nighttimes are going better for you!!!

Naomi

[slknight]

Originally posted by Luv to Cook

I am not sure how to get her on her tummy :o . If I put her down awake on her tummy, she just lifts her chest and is looking all around. Doesn't take too long for her to get pissed! I want to try it with naps first so I can watch her. But I am finding that I have to rock her with her naps...then trying to flip her on her tummy..not sure how it works. Tell me what you did.



Anita, I usually nurse Alex to sleep, so he is already sideways. Then I just kind of rock and snuggle with him, but with his tummy facing me. Once he's asleep, I just kind of put him down as best I can without waking him up.

[ChristineVA]

I almost hate to add *my* 2 cents since my kids are now 12 and 8, but I went through similar issues AND I had to get up and go out to work every day--UUGGHH!!. My DD was a horrible napper and never stayed long on the breast. My maternity leave was rough. In addition, she woke at least two times during the night. I was also surrounded by friends whose children truly did sleep through the night at, like, 6 weeks of age! I think there is *something* to the low-weight theory. Both of my children were thin babies and are now thin kids. All my friends had these 10 pounders when they were born.

What I found with both of my kids was that the more coddling I gave in response to the waking and crying, the worse it got. By coddling, I mean, extensive holding/carrying around and using a pacifier for calming. My son got incredibly dependent on it and as one poster stated: BIG MISTAKE! But, I know where you are and how bad you feel and you are desperate for anything, right?

I do agree that your baby is too young for the "cry out" method. It does definitely work and there is nothing wrong with it, but you cannot really even try it until the baby is 6 months old. I tried it with both my kids at 6 months and it didn't work. At 9 months, it worked in 3 days!! Both my kids continued to wake at night for what I call "habit feeding" and an inability to get themselves back to sleep.

One thing that really worked for my son and, I feel, got him on his way, was sleeping in his car seat beside my bed. That "enclosure" really helped and got him into the habit of sleeping for 4-5 hour stretches. Both my son and daughter didn't do well in their crib until they were about 4 months of age. I think the crib is just to big and sets off the startle reflex. A small bassinet or car seat may give you some relief. Don't worry right now about establishing the "place" of sleep. You just need to get the habit of sleep formed.

Another subject: the "family bed." Think REAL hard about putting your daughter in bed with you or sleeping with her regularly. This is a VERY hard habit to break. I don't disagree with co-sleeping as long as you are planning to do it for about 8 years. If you think an infant has a strong will, try telling a 3 year old to sleep in their own bed. I always knew that co-sleeping would not work for me because I am a light sleeper and I need lots of room and comfort. I never allowed it (OK a few times my son got in bed to nurse with me). I can't tell you how many of my co-workers are dragging themselves to work because their toddlers (and 6 year olds) are waking up all night and coming into their bed. I'm not kidding--the kids are UP ALL NIGHT.

As tired as you are, I think you still need to keep in mind the theory of self-comforting even if you do not see immediate results. I also agree that she cannot cry it out at this point. Somehow, you've got to find a happy medium. Your daughter may just be a poor napper. Try to keep her up more during the day and only *allow* her two naps. She will get irritable, but it may help with the nighttime routine.

As for the reflux, my DD had it 12 years ago, although they didn't really diagnose it then or treat it. My son *spit up* a few times during his first year. My DD spit up a few times a day--after every meal. She and I smelled like vomit for 12 months and then it stopped. That is reflux for whoever was wondering. Not normal for babies to spit up that often.

Christine

[BeachBum]

Hi.
I'm not a mom, but I am a member of a message board that has a parenting section. I often read through there to follow what's going on with my friends etc.
There is a post called "getting Aidan to go to sleep" that started with one mom with a problem getting her son to sleep and evolved into a 300 post thread about sleeping. This thread talks mostly about the self-soothing, sleep training approach like Dr. Mindell writes about.
I thought you might like to read through it.

It can be found Here (http://www.weddingchannel.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+com.wc.Utility.NavBarForStaticHtml?sendTh eseFields=ubb%3Af&location=http://emerald2.weddingchannel.com/WC2/LocalBusinesses/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi&ubb=forum&f=139&frmSection=none)

If the link doesn't work go to www.weddingchannel.com look for the message boards, then under the newlywed section then under parenting.

HTH

[Luv to Cook]

BeachBum...thanks for the link. Nice to know there are so many people in the same boat.

Well we had a breakthrough last nite. I took Asha to the doc again on Friday (my fifth time...not so much for answers, but for emotional support). He suggested that instead of watching her all day to see when she was sleepy to pick three times that I think she usually gets sleepy and put her down then. I thought no way would that work. I usually would spend all day at home waiting for her to yawn and rub her eyes. But I was willing to try anything. So I put her down twice yesterday for 2 naps. The first one did not go so well. Down for 20 minutes then up and talking to herself. I let her go for a bit, but then she started crying so I got her. In the afternoon, I put her down again. She was up again within 20 minutes. When she woke up I did not go to her. She started talking to herself again and within 10 minutes she went back to sleep...I could not believe it. She did not even cry. Now this is a baby who would start crying within 2 minutes for me to get her.

I don't want to jinx it, but I know that my baby can sleep well on her own. She went down last nite at 8 without a fight...slept till 1, I nursed her, she slept till 5:45....I nursed her again and then she slept till 7. Got up in the morning and then took an hour and fifteen minute nap! Woooohooooooooooooo! As for what I did differently, I nursed her as usual...then I gave her expressed breast milk in a bottle to give her an extra ounce or two for her 8 and 1 feeds. Sometimes she would get so sleepy nursing that she wasn't really eating, just sucking. But with the bottle it was not as much work for her, so she just sucked it down. Oh and we put her down an hour and half later at nite. She is down for another nap right now. What a great feeling...when she wakes up she is so happy. So who knows what worked. I think the combination of her getting a little older, the extra milk, the later bedtime and she found her fingers.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the support. I know that it may not always be like this, and that I may still have some bad nights, but I do know that she CAN do it.

Anita

[naomike]

Yayyyyyyyyy!! So happy for you!!!!! You must be soooo stoked (to sound like a surfer for a second)! :)

I hope this routine continues for you--you must feel so rested compared to before!

Continue to let us know your progress, and I just wanted to let you know that I've been pulling for you and I'm very pleased to hear the news.

Naomi

[Kristilyn1]

you know, it's funny-- it's hard to remember what worked until you hear someone else mention it. I never waited until my kids got sleepy for naps either. I basically put them down every two hours when they were under 9 months. Once they hit 9 months I put them down every 3 hours. Bedtime at 8, every single night no matter what. After a year old I did naps at 10 am and 1-1:30 PM. It's sort of the daycare method--did you ever wonder how they get every kid to sleep? My babies were daycare babies too.

My oldest was a very early riser (5 or 5:30) at 7 years old he STILL wakes up between 5:30 and 6:00 am. But anyway, that meant he had his first nap around 7:30 am. Usually he did 30-40 minutes at the first one, an hour for the second and two hours in the afternoon. He was able to do car/stroller naps for the first one, and sometimes the second---but the third HAD to be in his crib.

I hope this works for you--I know how lack of sleep makes you want to rip your hair out and cry. As far as co-sleeping--I agree, do what you want, I don't understand how people can actually SLEEP, but more power to those that can--but it CAN be a hard habit to break. My six year old niece still sleeps with her parents. I think everyone should do what they want, just make sure they have a PLAN in mind.

Kristi

[Luv to Cook]

Well, there are good naps and bad, and good nites and bad. But I am hoping the bad will start to outweigh the good. We are still trudging along, but I will tell you that I am alot happier knowing that she can sleep for a five hour stretch without nursing. I can hear her wake up in between and I always cringe waiting for her to start wailing, but each time she puts herself back to sleep. Even this morning after her 5:00AM feed she was WIDE awake when I put her in the crib. I thought that she would start screaming for me. Within twenty minutes she cooed herself to sleep. I still have not relaxed enough to sleep. I lay tense in my bed just waiting for her call, but as time passes and I see that this is more the norm, I am sure I will chill out!

As for co-sleeping. I would love, love, love to do it...right now. But that is not fair to DD. To let her co-sleep and then when I decide that I am done with it, to banish her to her own room. I remember growing up that my parents always had an open door policy. We could go in their bed whenever we wanted too. Knowing that made it special, but knowing it wasn't forbidden made us sleep well in our own beds. Some of my happiest memories though, were Saturday and Sunday mornings, snuggled up in between my Mom and Dad. DH and I talked about doing that with our kids, instead of having DD sleep with us every nite.

Keep your fingers crossed! I hope things continue down this path.

Does anyone have any advice for when we won't be home? I want to go to my Mom's house, but I am so scared about messing with her sleep! What about vacations?

Thanks!
Anita