Todd Bertuzzi breaks Moore's neck!

[lisas3575]

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~76~2006318,00.html

I thought the Canucks were a pretty decent team, until the game last night. :mad: It's a sport for goodness sake.

Boooo on the Canucks.

[kima]

Lisa- I agree with you completely!!! I don't watch much hockey and I didn't see this appalling act live. They are showing it over and over on TV here and each time I feel more upset. What a nasty hit. This kind of thing could kill someone or leave them a parapelgic!!!!

Bertuzzi deserves to be severely punished. No if ands or buts about it. That's not sport- I actually consider a crime. :(

[SandyM]

Lisa - I heard about it this morning, but I didn't realize his neck was broken. I've also heard that Bertuzzi isn't a clean player.

Ugh. That sucks. :mad:

[Laura]

Ugghh. My SO's son plays jr. hockey and is being considered for the draft his year. He almost suffered a career ending injury last year when he suffered a compound fracture to his femur due to an illegal check from behind into the boards. I hate hearing about this stuff.

[badunnin]

Ok, first of all, it's a fractured vertebrae in the neck. Second, this is a reflection on Bertuzzi, not on the Canucks. Thirdly, and I am not an advocate of this, but it was retaliation for a very nasty hit where Steve Moore took out Markus Naslund of the Canucks on February 15th. Naslund needed 13 stitches to close his head. There was no action taken by the league, and Bertuzzi started to take matters into his own hands. The same (albeit not as serious an injury) thing happened between Detroit and Colorado several years ago, when a Colorado player, Claude Lemieux, rode a Detroit player, Kris Draper, into the boards, causing Draper to have a broken jaw and nose and 40 stitches to his face. Lemieux was kicked out of the game. Unfortunately, players are often required to regulate the league themselves. This is getting a bit deeper into the game than some may be familiar with, but the institution of the instigator penalty hasn't helped at all. The game really does much better when players are allowed to self regulate - players realise that there will be retaliation if they make cheap hits, as Moore did. Just my opinion. I do recognise that this is an extreme case, however.

[kima]

Sorry Bethany but I disagree. I saw Moore's hit on Nasland (my favourite Canuck) and it wasn't that vicious- in fact it looked more accidental than anything.
Bertuzzi's hit, from behind, was far more dangerous and calculated.
It's time for the league to get tough on this kind of stuff; if not the next guy may be in a wheelchair or even dead. It could happen.
Believe me, I like Bertuzzi (at least I did) and obviously root for the Canucks. But there is no justification for what he did.

As you can imaginr this is all over radio and TV here and even die hard Canuck fans are upset- especially the young kids who idolize these guys.:(

[Kayaksoup]

I saw Moores hit on Naslund and it was no accident. That being said, I was mortified by what Bertuzzi did. There is retaliation, and then there is just plain stupidity. This does not reflect on the Canucks, it reflects on Bertuzzi and right now, I am pretty steamed with him. As far as I am concerned, he should be out for the rest of the season and the playoffs. At least. I hope charges are pressed. We screamed for blood when McSorley nailed Brashear, so its only right.

I had turned off the game before this happened. When i watched teh replays, I felt sick. I felt the way I did two years ago when I watched Naslund sliding into the boards and breaking his leg.

[lisas3575]

Y'all are right, it's not a reflection on the Canucks as a lone player. But Bethany, I disagree about an "eye for an eye for an eye" approach-- any of these malicious checks (retaliatory or not) should be penalized hard, within the league and the law. Children look up to these guys for Gordie's sake. :mad:

[Kayaksoup]

.

[Kayaksoup]

I had to delete my last post when I saw your reply, Lisa. Thank you for acknowledging that it didn't reflect on the whole team.

[kima]

I guess what I meant about Moore's hit is that it didn't look like he intended to hit that hard.
NO doubt Bertuzzi didn't want the result his hit got but still he hit from behind and then dog piled on the guy.
But I will admit to not being a hockey expert.
In my beloved sport of track and field we have to worry about drugs not violent fights.:rolleyes: :mad:

By "Gordie" Lisa do you mean Howe????:D

[badunnin]

Originally posted by lisas3575
Y'all are right, it's not a reflection on the Canucks as a lone player. But Bethany, I disagree about an "eye for an eye for an eye" approach-- any of these malicious checks (retaliatory or not) should be penalized hard, within the league and the law. Children look up to these guys for Gordie's sake. :mad:

Lisa - I agree that it shouldn't be necessary, but the league currently has some pretty funky stands on discipline. Moore's contact, incidental or intentional, caused serious injury to Naslund. The league's official stance is intentional or not, this type of action calls for discipline. They did not follow through against Moore re: Naslund. Same with the Draper/Lemieux incident. Players take care of their own. I know the mentatality well. You have the back of your teammates. If they are injured either based on intention or on carelessness, the offender will be aware of the fact that in the future, it is not acceptable to hit from behind/get your stick off the ice/etc.

The thing is, this would not have gone noticed if Bertuzzi had just taken Moore out in a fight and broken his nose. This would have been a complete non-issue. Is the issue here the fact that Bertuzzi went too far (which for me it is) or the fact that Bertuzzi let another player know that his actions in a previous game were unacceptable?

Maureen - a friend of mine uses the phrase "For the love of Gordie" and "Oh good Gordie" all the time. I've used it once or twice here. ;)

[SandyM]

I guess I'm conflicted about this. I saw the hit on Draper by Claude Lemieux, and personally, I couldn't wait for McCarty to get his hands on the creep. I also knew, though, that unless it was a freak accident, he wasn't going to fracture the guy's neck. :confused:

I didn't see the Moore/Naslund hit, so I can't comment on that.

This was not a freak accident - it was intentional. He stalked the guy. Bertuzzi should be done for the season, and then some.

I'm surprised to hear that the authorities (police) are looking into it. Has anything like this ever been pursued that intensely before?

[granolagirl]

this is a reflection on Bertuzzi, not on the Canucks.
Ditto on that.

[badunnin]

Originally posted by SandyM
I'm surprised to hear that the authorities (police) are looking into it. Has anything like this ever been pursued that intensely before?


Actually, Dino Ciccarelli was prosecuted when he was in Minneapolis with the North Stars. This is not unprecedented.

[Kayaksoup]

Marty McSorley, Boston Bruins, was charged with Assault with a weapon when he wacked a Canucks player, Donald Brashear, upside the head with his hockey stick.

Bethany, my issue is that he went too far. I would have been fine if they had a brawl. Bertuzzi should not have hit him from behind.

[badunnin]

Originally posted by Kayaksoup
Marty McSorley, Boston Bruins, was charged with Assault with a weapon when he wacked a Canucks player, Donald Brashear, upside the head with his hockey stick.

Bethany, my issue is that he went too far. I would have been fine if they had a brawl. Bertuzzi should not have hit him from behind.

Then I will agree with you on that Linda. ;)

Sandy - I was pulling up stuff last night on the initial Draper hit. It was nasty. Very nasty. And there was no punishment. I think if the league wants to stop this kind of retaliation, they need to step up to the ... puck. I do believe this was preventable.

[Kayaksoup]

I agree with you on the self regulation. The officiating is so touch and go. Sometimes they call it, sometimes they don't. I have also noticed officials "stalking" certain players during the game, which means that they miss other things going on. GRRR. Okay, too early to get my blood boiling here. I think I'll go read a food thread or something.

[Jill123]

I think Bertuzzi went way, way too far. There's fighting and then there's this.

I saw Moore's hit on Naslund and although it was a strong check, that's part of the game. (The NHL even investigated it and found that it was a legal hit.) However, there's nothing "legal" about Bertuzzi's stalking, then suckerpunching from behind (and I won't even go into slamming a man down on the ice face-first and continuing to beat on an unconcious man until you're pulled off).

Hopefully the NHL will step in and take the necessary action against Bertuzzi so it won't have to be pursued in the criminal courts. From what I hear from Moore's mother, however, they're definitely looking into pressing civil charges against Bertuzzi/Crawford/Canucks organization, depending on the final outcome of Moore's injuries. (i.e., if he never plays hockey again -- or worse -- they're interested in filing a lawsuit)

[SandyM]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/hockey/nhl/03/09/bc.hkn.bertuzzi.spunch.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

[Kayaksoup]

Originally posted by Jill123
I saw Moore's hit on Naslund and although it was a strong check, that's part of the game. (The NHL even investigated it and found that it was a legal hit.) However, there's nothing "legal" about Bertuzzi's stalking, then suckerpunching from behind (and I won't even go into slamming a man down on the ice face-first and continuing to beat on an unconcious man until you're pulled off).

Hopefully the NHL will step in and take the necessary action against Bertuzzi so it won't have to be pursued in the criminal courts.

1)I am sure if Bertuzzi had elbowed Moore in the face, knocking him out, causing cuts that required 13 stitches to the face and a concussion, you would be cool with that. Elbowing was illegal last time I heard. I am NOT defending Bertuzzi's actions, as I stated earlier, but if your going to start throwing comments about the Moore hit in, I have to respond.
Also, where did this "stalking" come into it?? Bertuzzi challenged Moore, he wouldn't go, Bertuzzi chased after him and nailed him from behind. Stalking implies he spent the whole game following him around the rink. Which he did not to my knowledge.
2) It doesn't matter what the NHL does. I have no doubt this will be pursued in criminal court. And rightly so. We can't have double standards just because he is a "star" player and has never played dirty. An assault is an assault. Doesn't matter who you are.

[Kayaksoup]

quote from article Sandy posted

This will be the second time in recent years Vancouver police have become involved in an on-ice hit at an NHL game. Former NHL tough guy Marty McSorley was charged for hitting then-Vancouver Canuck Donald Brashear with his stick in February 2000.

See. We can't let him get away with it.

And, a poll from Vancouver. How the majority of us feel.

http://www.mytelus.com/polls/display.do?pollID=1163

[SandyM]

Originally posted by Kayaksoup
Also, where did this "stalking" come into it??

Hi Linda,

Granted, I didn't see the entire game, so perhaps I'm not even qualified to form an opinion - but in the clip I saw, it looked like Bertuzzi was following Moore at a slow pace - it wasn't an uncontrolled, fast, mid-rink "check".

Then again, as stated, I only saw the clips that the news/media are choosing to show. So with that, I'll just bow out and hope for the best - for everyone. It's just a sad thing, no matter how you look at it.

[Kayaksoup]

I agree its a sad thing, Sandy.
I thought the slow skate after was slow motion replay. I had turned off the game by that point, so only saw replays. If that was live motion, then I can understand the stalking comment. And I would be really embarrassed. Because I really had no idea it was not slow motion.... :o Sorry Sandy.

[SandyM]

Absolutely no apology necessary, Linda. And to tell you the truth, that's something I didn't think of - slow motion replay. :o I guess it would be a good idea for me to get the whole story before commenting. :(

[Kayaksoup]

Originally posted by SandyM
I guess it would be a good idea for me to get the whole story before commenting. :(
Me too:o CAuse you could well be right. He did deliberately chase after him.

[Alisa]

CBC has a lot of information on this as well-including a forum where you can have your say!


http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/03/10/canada/bertuzzi040310

[lisas3575]

Thanks for the link, Alisa. I found an interesting article, Top 10 Hockey Violence Lowlights (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/top10/hockey_lowlights.html) . Who knew that the All-Star game was started because of a retaliatory hit?

[SandyM]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/hockey/nhl/03/11/bertuzzi.suspension.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

[Kayaksoup]

Good.

[badunnin]

I'm happy with that.

[kima]

I don't think he got a harsh enough punishment.
I also saw his apology (they showed it over and over) and I think he is truly remorseful. I thought the line where he said he didn't mean to hurt him was disingenious however!:o

[Kayaksoup]

Kima, it is an open ended suspension, minimum 17 games, to be revisited next season. Plus the Canucks were fined 250,000, Bertuzzi has forfeited 500,000. Its hockey. PLUS, he will probably be given some sort of criminal penalty.

[lisas3575]

Originally posted by kima
I don't think he got a harsh enough punishment.
I also saw his apology (they showed it over and over) and I think he is truly remorseful. I thought the line where he said he didn't mean to hurt him was disingenious however!:o

That link that Sandy posted had a poll-- apparently 70% of those people felt it wasn't long enough either. Not that that poll is scientific or anything, but it's interesting it's on a sports site.

[lisas3575]

bump. My post didn't show up...

[kima]

In my sport of track you get a four year suspension and ban from the Olympics if you are caught taking a banned substance. I know this is a pro sport and all but I think the violence in hockey is growing out of control . I predict someday someone will be injured for life.

I love Olympic and World Champ hockey- both men and womens because it is about skill and passion. NHL hockey seems to be becoming like gang warfare.
Thanks for clarifying the penalty Linda- i didn't know it was an open ended suspension.

Now we'll see what the justice system does.

[Kayaksoup]

Maureen, please know I am not attacking you.

Players HAVE been injured for life. This is nothing new.

Dirty hits deserve punishment.

Drugs are another issue again.

Bertuzzi would probably get less that McSorley, because McSorley was charged with assault with a weapon. He got an 18 month suspended sentence, probation, I believe.

Sports debates probably don't belong here and I should probably just shut up now.

I send an apology to Colorado fans. We have always enjoyed watching games between the two teams. (except when parker used to play). I feel vaguely responsible somehow for what Bertuzzi did.

[kima]

Oh Linda- that thought never entered my head!

As far as my opinion goes, upon reflection I think I really shouldn't pass judgment. I am not a hockey expert nor a huge fan of the NHL. I trust that the league knows what it is doing. I should keep my mouth shut!!!:o :D

No harm having a small sport debate here either!!!:)

Isn't it ironic that we Canadians have a reputation as being peace loving, polite people and hockey is our national sport! i have always found that amusing!:)

[Kayaksoup]

Originally posted by kima

No harm having a small sport debate here either!!!:)

Isn't it ironic that we Canadians have a reputation as being peace loving, polite people and hockey is our national sport! i have always found that amusing!:)

1.) okay, I won't be too worried about sidetracking then:)

2.)
That made me laugh Maureen. It is so true. AND, I am a peaceable. generally non-confrontational person, but where hockey is involved, I have opinions. and I get emotional:o

[kima]

Originally posted by Kayaksoup


1.) okay, I won't be too worried about sidetracking then:)

2.)
That made me laugh Maureen. It is so true. AND, I am a peaceable. generally non-confrontational person, but where hockey is involved, I have opinions. and I get emotional:o


Spoken like a true Canadian.
(I thought it was cute on CNN yesterday the reporter kept calling the team the Vancouver "Canooks"!!!!

[Jill123]

I know this comes as no surprise to many here, but I don't think Bertuzzi's suspension is near enough. Granted, it's open-ended, but there's no doubt in my mind that he'll be back on the ice next season (and that's really too bad).

I saw his apology (you can't miss it when they play it every half hour) and while I think that he IS sorry about what happened, it really turned my stomach when he said that he didn't mean to do Moore any harm (I'm paraphrasing). I believe that he probably didn't mean to hurt him as badly as he did, he DID mean to hurt him. There's no way he can do what he did and think that you WEREN'T going to hurt him. AND on February 20th, he was quoted as saying, "No way that punk will be playing in their lineup in March." (This was from a February article at knoxnews.com.) Either he meant to hurt him, or he's a pretty good psychic.