Anyone watch "The Swan" last night?

[ellery]

The first time I heard of this show was when JeAnne wrote about it, and I swore not to watch it. I was too lazy to change the channel however after American Idol went off, and then I got sucked into it.

I hate hate hate the premise of the show, but after seeing the two women profiled last night, I had mixed feelings. I thought that each was pretty cute to begin with, just with horrible self-esteem. I'm glad that they had the opportunity to feel beautiful and to have therapy (which they REALLY needed), I just wonder what problems will follow as a result of the transformation. And I wonder what message it sends that instead of learning to love what God gave us, we're "fixed" with plastic surgery. Also had a problem with the fact that it's all women on the show. Are women the only ones with self-esteem issues? Why no men? Are women valued more based on their looks?

Yes, I'm putting too much thought into this, but the show did make me think.

Anyone else see it?

Leah

[erinl]

I saw the ads while surfing and chose not to stop. My time was better spent cleaning... It really is a shame.

[ebobbitt]

I had it on while I was working on a computer but didn't pay a lot of attention to it. The thing I find so sad is they definitely have issues with self-esteem--I don't think choosing one over the other to then go on to a beauty pageant is helping the problem! What it would feel like to be told "You're still not pretty enough".

[greysangel]

no i didn't :mad: :( :mad:

What's going to happen when these ladies dont win the pageant? Or when the problems dont magically go away because they are pretty?

j

[ellery]

Well, until I actually watched it, I thought that it was all about beauty too. But what the challenge to the two women profiled last night was, was who embraced the process more. You had one woman who totally jumped into it - she worked very hard in therapy to deal with how she's been influenced by unsupportive men (husband and father), how she's internalized all of that, etc. She also worked very hard on every other aspect of the regimen - the fitness training, dieting, coaching, etc. She made it very clear that she was going to make the most of this opportunity to make herself a better and more beautiful person from the inside out. She was actually a joy to watch - she was funny, and so genuinely delighted at the results of all of her hard work, that you just knew that her days of being a doormat were over.

Girl #2 was a little more unsure. She too had huge self-esteem issues, but didn't embrace the process wholeheartedly. She was kind of whiny and uncertain and did everything sort of halfway, although with more gusto than she'd ever done before. She still seemed kind of stuck in doormat mode, and with her continuing poor self-esteem and self-confidence, seems like she's going to return to her old ways of eating instead of dealing with stuff.

The "judges" chose Girl #1, based on her commitment to the whole process (they said) versus beauty. I'm not sure if that's how the whole contest in the end is going to be judged, but it would be nice if it was, instead of who looks better.

Not that I'm defending the show at all, but at least it's not as heartless and cold as I thought it would be from the previews...

Leah

[greysangel]

I guess I just see it as the end doesn't justify the means. Heck, it's really none of my business what people choose to spend money on. We're all trying to "better" ourselves somehow. But no matter how good the intentions of the show are, the underlying message is still that the outside is what it takes to be something in the world. If it wasn't about appearance, it wouldn't be called the Swan (ie the ugly duckings get transformed). I'm sure the whole show (like most reality shows) is rigged. They do hours and hours of interviewing and taping to get the most "drama mamma" sound bites and scenes.

I'm just sick and tired of all these programs that sort of are all about finger pointing at the stupid/silly/ugly/fat/outrageous/moronic people and how the viewers watching get to feel so much better about themselves through comic relief or whatever. This is only one step away from talk shows like montel or jerry springer or ricki lake. Instead it goes on for 8 weeks instead of 1 hour.

J

[hlao23]

I was interested in watching it until I saw the contestants. The premise bothers me now because they were both very normal looking people who could look very nice with more of a typical non-surgery make-over.

I enjoy seeing the surgical transformations of people on extreme makeover generally. I can't imagine going through life looking as obviously different as some of these people do and can very much understand their wanting to fix horrible teeth or add a chin when there is none.

I really think the women they chose had issues that had nothing to do with the way they look.

[ellery]

Again, I'm not trying to defend the show in any way whatsover. I just think it raises interesting questions. And I too was struck by the fact that the two last night were (in my eyes) kinda cute to begin with! It was harsh how they put them in those horrible grey two piece sports bra and undie things... who on earth would look good in that? (Gray is not a very slimming color) I couldn't help but think as I watched, that hey, I am not too different from the women on TV - if you look at me close enough I've got lots of flaws! I have my own issues with appearance and weight and all that, and it was hard to look in the mirror last night and remind myself that I look just fine, and that I am more than what I look like... after watching this TV show.

I still have a problem that it's all about women; with the idea that you perform surgery (multiple multiple procedures!), give a little counseling, and bam! their problems are allegedly solved; and with the thought of just how much we are judged by our looks.

I'm just curious to hear from those who actually saw it to see how it affected them. Am I the only one who actually watched it last night?

;)

Leah

[slknight]

Ok, I'll confess. I watched.:o Well, most of it. I missed some in the middle due to tv problems and tivo'd the rest so I saw the end this morning.

It made me really, really sad. You're right; I thought they both seemed like pretty normal looking people. Certainly not ugly. And I think they both kind of looked better beforehand. Especially Kelly. She looked like a slut afterward. JMHO. And she still had that same pouty, "nobody likes me" look on her face.

What made me so sad was that they both obviously had such self-esteem issues. It seemed to me like what they really just needed was lots of therapy. Not plastic surgery. I felt especially sad for Rachel, whose father told her third-grade teacher not to expect much out of her. Sheesh. Her husband was a jerk too. I hope she ditches him.

At the end, when Kelly's boyfriend was like "oh, you're so beautiful," I felt like slapping him. Shouldn't he have seen her inside beauty before she underwent the transformation?

I guess my thoughts are kind of incoherent. Not sure if I'll watch again. But it was very easy to get sucked in.:o :o

[ChiefExec]

It would be interesting to know the stats as far as how many people tuned in. The premise of the show is so utterly abominable to me that I can't imagine people watching it, but sadly, they probably did (which means that more and more of these shows will be produced, you know).

It's sick, really. I am so not a fan of plastic surgery for plastic surgery's sake.

[pinky]

I refused to watch it last night. I just think that most women already have body/image isues, and this show is just JUSTIFYING their worst fears! We can't all be gorgeous, size 0 creatures on the outside...and that's fine. Now some people might just look at this show and see how they can be beautiful too, if they just go under the knife. It sickens me.

[Grace]

Originally posted by greysangel
I'm just sick and tired of all these programs that sort of are all about finger pointing at the stupid/silly/ugly/fat/outrageous/moronic people and how the viewers watching get to feel so much better about themselves through comic relief or whatever. J

I never thought about things this way, but you are probably right! I have to admit I love watching "Judge Judy" every day, I guess for this reason! :o :o I get pleasure out of watching her yell at stupid people :o She says all the things to them that I would love to say! I guess this isn't something that I should enjoy so much.... :o

[hlao23]

Originally posted by Grace


I never thought about things this way, but you are probably right! I have to admit I love watching "Judge Judy" every day, I guess for this reason! :o :o I get pleasure out of watching her yell at stupid people :o She says all the things to them that I would love to say! I guess this isn't something that I should enjoy so much.... :o

I love Judge Judy too but I think part of it is because she make things seem so simple and obvious. And I don't think I agree that some of the other shows mentioned are about finger-pointing or laughing at others. I certainly don't think most people are looking to laugh at people because of the way they look (stupid people is another issue - IMO.) I've always enjoyed makeover shows. I think it's so cool how simple things like clothing or hair style can dramatically change a persons looks.

[luckylori]

I realize I'm in the minority here (uh, like the only one), but I thought the show was very well done. I was actually moved to tears. I see what you all are saying about self-esteem, but to watch people who have always felt "average", have an opportunity to truly feel beautiful, I thought was very moving. As for the contest end of things, even the one that wasn't selected got to have her family come in and be her support. She got thousands and thousands of dollars worth of stuff. Who could complain? I do wonder if they have to pay taxes based on the value of all of it. If so, they could become thousands of dollars in debt.

[ellery]

Nope, I was crying too.

;)

Leah

[ChiefExec]

But what about finding merit in being average, yet being happy with who you are? Self-acceptance? Self-pride and self-esteem? All of these attributes I have just named were tossed out the window by these vain contestants jumping at the chance to go under the knife and acquire fake, plastic body parts. It is truly sickening. Why can't peoplelearn to love themselves how God, or whatever deity you believe in, made them?????

[ellery]

Yipes! Did you watch the show?

I think it's difficult for people to comment if they haven't seen it, which is why I asked for people who actually watched it to offer up an opinion.

;)

Leah

[ChiefExec]

Nope. Like I said, the premise sickened me.

Now if I somehow have the whole premise wrong, please correct me. But I was privy to several of the previews, and they all conveyed the message that these folks, while sick of being average or even unfortunate-looking, were undergoing plastic surgery to completely change their appearnaces. Now, what part of that have I got wrong?

Sorry, but that's just not an undertaking that I, personally, believe in.

[ChiefExec]

Also, just wanted to say sorry . . .I didn't realize we weren't allowed to post on the thread unless we watched the show. ;)

[ellery]

And that's fine.

However... I was just asking people who watched the show to comment on what they thought.

Not trying to debate the greater issue, just wanted feedback on the show.

Leah

[ellery]

Originally posted by ChiefExec
Also, just wanted to say sorry . . .I didn't realize we weren't allowed to post on the thread unless we watched the show. ;)

Oh good grief.

Leah

[ChiefExec]

You know, I am really so sorry. I seem to be having an uncanny knack for offending everyone today (including my mother-in-law:D). I think it must be my whacked-out hormones (see Healthy Living's TTC thread :p ).

I really am not channeling Escher here, I promise. :)

[ellery]

Tee hee!

You've just been pmmmmmmmm'd. :D

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming...

;)

Leah

[hlao23]

Mind if I comment of the general issue of plastic surgery?

I'm going to anyway because it's why I stopped watching the show. :D

I don't have a problem with plastic surgery per se. Unfortunately we live in a world where people are judged, at least in part, by their looks. I can't imagine what it would be like to be someone who was "unfortunate-looking". I have been teased so much in my life just because I have curly hair (very, very, very) and I've always hated my hair because of that. I don't think I can even imagine what some of these other people go through.

What bothered me most about the show was that some of the surgery was for something that could have been taken care of with exercise (I think, I didn't see the finale). I think we often have too much interest in a quick fix.

[funniegrrl]

I wasn't going to watch the show, but at the last minute I did. I don't think I'll watch again, because I HATED the style of the show. Much more melodramatic, hypey, etc. than I expected. Unlike the doctors, etc. on Extreme Makeover, these experts were quite judgemental, especially the plastic surgeons. The plastic surgeons on EM are all about, "What do YOU want to do?" as a good surgeon should be. The ones on Swan were, "Oh my god, I've got to do this and this and this to make her presentable." And, I didn't think their work was that good -- the swollen lips they gave the girl who won were outrageous.

I have watched EM occasionally, and I guess I watched this show, because I DO fantasize about some plastic surgery. I've been severely overweight all my life and have lost a lot of it recently, and there ain't nothing but a surgeon's knife that is going to make my body look halfway normal even when I get down to my "ideal" weight. So, yeah, I'd love to have someone else pay for me to have a tummy tuck, breast lift, and tighten my upper arms and thighs. And, a little tightening of the face and carving the nose wouldn't hurt! LOL And, I'd love to let a true expert give me the once-over for hair/makeup/wardrobe. I might actually be able to afford that one day!

Still, with the women last night, they could have gotten GREAT results with the diet, exercise, and therapy part, along with a general hair/makeup/wardrobe makeover, maybe adding in the dental work. I saw a "special" EM a few weeks ago, and based on what their casting person said, these women wouldn't even QUALIFY for EM because they would have been too normal looking.

[Escher]

Originally posted by ChiefExec
I really am not channeling Escher here, I promise. :)

You Rang?

Haven't seen the show, just a few promos. Show didn't grab my interest one way or the other, so I won't comment.

[Kristilyn1]

I think the premise of the show is SICK, SICK, SICK and is bound to make a lot of horribly insecure people feel even worse about themselves. Also, I wonder too what these women will think when they realize that being pretty has it's own problems and that most of their problems prior to the show have not changed a bit, or been exchanged for different problems. That said, I watched it too! And cried like a baby at the end. I think I have an interesting take on the whole thing.

As a child I had teeth straight out an Appalachia caricature. So bucked out that kids made fun of me. I was a WRECK! Self esteem, right out the window. I used to duck my head when talked to, it was horrible---I hated to get out of bed every day. There does not exist, one picture of me from grade 2 until I got braces in Grade 6. Fixed the teeth---now as an adult I've always been termed "pretty". I don't think too many people would label me anything more than mildly pretty---but to have that after being what I considered so ugly I wanted to die. I can't explain it. I think it's all well and good to tell people that they should "love the person inside" etc. But unless you've ever BEEN the butt of other people's cruel taunts about the way you look---you really can't be a very fair judge. Sometimes, the change IS enough to bring about changes inside. I am a very confident adult and have no self esteem issues---I'm stronger inside for having been through that, amongst other things.

I agree though that these girls were average looking, but that doesn't mean that other people haven't told them they are ugly or made them feel unattractive. If you feel that badly about yourself, whether it's deserved or not and someone hands you a lifering--even at the cost of exploiting yourself for all of America to watch----heck ya! Most people are going to reach out with both hands! That said, I don't think the premise of the show can masquerade as helpful to society, but I don't think it's the evil show I thought it was before I watched it.

Kristi

[Escher]

Hmmmm... I _suppose_ braces could be for medical reasons.... but in reality most are just another form of cosmetic surgery....

[colleency]

My teeth were so crooked, I couldn't eat normally. I'd bite into an apple and get "sled tracks."

I'm very, very glad that my parents could afford to give me braces. It's interesting to compare it to plastic surgery. I guess if I had another part of my body that was as messed up as my teeth were, I'd want plastic surgery, too.

It's just sad when people have stuff done when there's nothing actually wrong.

[Wendy w]

I had braces put on at the "tender age" of 34. I had straight teeth but with an 80% overbite and it was putting pressure on my back teeth. A positive side effect of this is that now I am not afraid to smile. :)

[jellyben]

I watched under duress-my MIL is visiting and wanted to watch. Part of me was jealous, because with 3 young kids I would give my right eye for 3 days to devote to self-improvement, let alone 3 months!!! I kept thinking it would be funny if, after hearing them talk about how their self-esteem and confidence has improved, when they finally looked in the mirror, nothing had been done to their faces. Because they worked so hard to lose weight, eat right, went through therapy. I am sure all that minus the surgery would work wonders for anyone.

[luckylori]

Regarding the comments about diet and exercise...these women were put on a 1200 calorie a day diet and had personal trainers work with them two hours a day. They also had psychological counseling. It was an intense three month process of being able to concentrate one hundred percent on a makeover. They had to be healthier psychologically as well as physically when this was over. I think that's a positive.

[Kristilyn1]

Originally posted by Escher
Hmmmm... I _suppose_ braces could be for medical reasons.... but in reality most are just another form of cosmetic surgery....

That's my point. If I had had to walk around as an adult with those teeth.....I shudder to think how I would feel about myself. And those darn braces HURT! Every day my mouth felt like it was being cracked apart--I had the rubber bands, headgear, etc. I was grateful for every pain-filled day. I was willing to suffer pain all to LOOK better. I'm not embarrassed about it.

Kristi

[funnybone]

Anybody watch "The Pagent" last night? I tuned in to see what the girls looked like. I haven't been following the series, but was curious last night (plus nothing else was on). As shallow as the concept was, the women sure looked confident out there. You have to give them credit for that, I guess. The prize for the winner wasn't bad either.

[Vicanddi]

Okay...I'll bite. Who won...or is it over yet? I watched an episode or two, and was impressed by a few of the women who worked very hard in the gym and with their emotional issues. There were far more whiny, wimpy women, though, which is why I really didn't watch it too much.

[KristinK]

We watched the first episode and maybe one more after that. We started watching last night, but I fell asleep after they announced the three finalists. I agree that the women looked confident (some more than others), but in looking at the before pictures, I didn't think all of them were that bad, or certainly not so bad that some new make-up and some exercise couldn't fix.

As long as they're happy, I guess.

[linsleyd]

Last night was the only one I caught and I didn't think they were THAT bad before. They mostly needed therapy. I do think it turned out to be a better premise than I had originally thought.

[Mamasue]

Cindy, Beth and Rachel were the last three runners up. Cindy was second runnerup; Beth was first runnerup and Rachel was crowned The Swan. There will be other series from what I understand.

[greysangel]

Originally posted by Mamasue
There will be other series from what I understand.

wah :(

[Escher]

I just watched the evening gown part....

Whoever said the women weren't ugly to begin with needs to wake up and smell the coffee... man, some of them were so ugly, they'd make an onion cry....

anyhow, moving on...

I was pretty impressed by what an improvement the surgeries made. Of course, makeup, counceling, and a fitness regimen also figured in... but the show's goal of a complete transformation was nothing less than remarkable. They surpassed my expectations in that category.

Anyhow, I don't think there is any doubt that these women will have better, happier lives as a result of the gift (albeit artificial) they have been given...

I'm uplifted and inspired. My SO and I decided we should go out and get our teeth whitened or something....

[Gail]

I watched about ten minutes of this show several weeks ago. HATED it. (for a number of reasons.) I think what bothered me the most about it was exactly what funniegrrl mentioned. Extreme Makeover seems to try to make people over into the image they've dreamt about; Swan treats people like projects. I was horrified to hear a physician rattling off the person's so-called "defects" -- things the women hadn't even had issues with until he brought them to light. Having worked for a plastic surgeon, I understand that sometimes the doctor may envision ways to improve a person's appearance beyond the original image (ie putting in a chin implant may bring the newly revamped nose more into balance with the rest of the face.) One would hope that such suggestions are made to the patient with tact. In the case of these ladies on the Swan who are already suffering from low self-esteem, the matter-of-fact attitude of the physician was downright insensitive. I guess he figured it didn't matter-- after all he was going to "fix her up" anyway. On the outside, anyway...

I'm reminded of an incident many years ago, when I was learning to take mastoid x-rays. The tech training me was working on an actual patient, pointing out how I needed to center on a particular area between eye and ear as he was setting up the shot. Forgetting he was speaking about a human being, he began commenting to me how we'd have to make allowances because the man's ears were unusually low, and that the tops didn't line up properly in relation to the usual physiological landmarks. After, the tech had shot the x-rays and disappeared into the darkroom, the paient looked and me sadly and said, "...my wife always thought I was handsome..." I felt terrible.