I'm sorry, but I need some more advice

[Wendy w]

Hi Everyone, I realize that I have been kind of needy in the advice department lately and am feeling like a drama queen, but I feel that I have gotten excellent support and advice here - which I really appreciate beyond words. I have a new issue and it is very touchy because it involves family. I will do my best to paraphrase and get to the point. Here goes:

As some of you know, my 84 year old Mother went into assisted living 1 1/2 years ago, had a stroke last fall and is paralyzed on her right side. She now lives in a board and care residence. She has dementia as well. Just before she went into assisted living, we had her do a living trust and we are very grateful because she cannot make any decisions.

The thing is her house. She and my Dad bought it in 1955, she kept it after the divorce and it has always been kind of much for her to keep up, especially in later years and typical of many children of the Depression, Mom saved almost everything.:eek: Anyway...last summer, my nephew's MIL, who lived out of state, needed a place to live so they went through and cleaned out the house so she could live in it. We had a new lawn put in and my BIL had the bathroom remodeled. She pays rent, but it is waaaay under market (and we have been paying utilities) because the place needs a lot of work yet, especially a roof, painting, termiteing. The MIL wants to live there for another couple of years, retire and then build in the mountains.

Earlier this year, they had mentioned wanting to buy it and we debated whether it would be best to sell or keep it to rent out as income for Mom. A lot of people (including a sister who lives out of state) told me not to sell it, especially to family, who would expect a "deal". The MIL would put $ into it because the house would be their's.

Anyway, my sister called me last week to tell me that the tenant wanted to have the place painted and also mentioned the roof and termiteing was needed, and I agreed. She also mentioned that my nephew and his wife bought a house inland in an area that would involve a fairly long commute. They already have a condo but want a house because they have a 3 year old and want a yard. I had a sigh of relief when I heard that they had put a down on the other place because then it wouldn't be touchy about Mom's. Wrong!

The next day, I got an email from my nephew saying that although they had another house almost in escrow, they were still interested in Mom's more as it was closer to their jobs, and played the child and keeping it in the family cards. He also said that it was a hard decision but didn't have the time for a long discussion because of the escrow issue. Talk about pressure! I said that we should talk to Mom's estate attorney.

I did and he said that it would be a good thing because since Mom cannot come home, she could benefit from the money because housing prices are very high right now. As the decision makers, it would be a good one in Mom's interest. He did say to get a couple of appraisals and to charge fair market value and referred me to an elder care attorney for more questions. I was at work, which was really insane last week because it was fiscal closing and we had to request final checks for people leaving at the end of the month, and am adjusting to a new schedule. I forgot 2 vital questions: any tax repercussions for the house? And...where to put/invest the money safely if the house is sold. I conveyed this to my sister that night. Btw: my out of state sister told me not to sell, especially to my nephew because he would expect a deal. She told my other sister to do so because she hated having tenants and would never do it again.

Even though the attorney did say that it was a good idea, I still feel compelled to get a few more opinions because I am kind of feeling manipulated by the timeline, am stressing over my truck, which I may pursue the lemon law on, am in a new but wonderful relationship, am getting ready for the fair, etc. and feeling a tad overwhelmed.

My sister called me last night and I told her that I didn't want to be difficult but I felt we should get as much advice as possible, and she then told me that I was. :mad: And, I explained that I have a lot going on right now and she said that she felt that I didn't. :mad: :rolleyes: :mad: After I hung up, I cried for an hour. Guess what??? Now I am feeling difficult as I am sick and tired of people who assume that because I am single, I have lots of time on my hands. She has a husband and son at home who are able bodied, and could help, I'm all I have and have to fight my own battles, etc. Anyway, thank you for letting me get this off of my chest and I didn't expect to feel so emotional.

Also, my nephew has NOT been to see my Mom in months, because he can't handle it. :rolleyes: He has a 3 year old son and my Mom and the other residents would love to see him and it would give them a few minutes of happiness, but his son hasn't been around "old" people much. Excuse me, but a few measly minutes won't kill him.

Again, I thank you for letting me get this off my chest and I welcome any advice.

[sneezles]

First of all I want to give you a hug or two...{{{{{Wendy}}}}}!
Secondly, families are truly a pain in the rear!!! Darlin', you have got a potfull with yours! (I did with mine a few years ago but now that my mother is gone we don't feel the need to keep in touch!).
Try not to succumb to family pressure. And certainly don't go below fair market on the house!!! Your mother will be needing that money for her care and that is the bottom line! If your nephew or your sister's don't understand then give them the number for the attorney so that he can explain it!!!

[yorkshirepud]

Hi Wendy,

I can't really offer much advice, well actually, none in the house selling and tax department from a lucrative standpoint.

But, I did want to stress that you have to do whatever the majority is comfortable with. I'm not sure if this is something you and your sisters will decide. It's seems it's 2 to 1 right now. You also have to do what's in your mom's best interest. In lieu of being able to make the decision herself, that lies with the immediate family (i.e. not your nephew) and her attorney.

Don't get pressured into making a decision. You need to think long term, not short term based on the convenience of others.

Try not to stress hun. *hugs*

[badunnin]

Wendy - first off, I'm sending hugs your way.

I'm currently in the process of buying my grandfather's house (I think - my aunt is being indecisive. She won't buy the house, but she hasn't made it official yet - she has until July 1) so we have a similar situation in our family right now.

I would get the house appraised, and just go to your nephew with that number. If he wants a deal, say no. Easier said than done, I know. But make it very clear to him that you will be selling the house for what it is worth. It is a business transaction. The fact that he hasn't been to see your mom, sucky as it is, shouldn't play a role, IMO. He will be buying the house, not getting it for free or for a deal. Anyone else who would be buying the house hasn't been to see your mom either. ;) FWIW, I didn't see my grandfather very much - we weren't close. I have no right to the house as an inheritance, and my dad and his sibs decided (minus the one aunt who might be buying it instead) that they wanted to keep the house in the family, they know I'll take very good care of it, and make the necessary updates, and regardless of the relationship I had with my grandfather, this is a business transaction. Sure, there is emotion involved, mostly on my end (my grandfather killed himself in the garage - ugh). But they have all managed to distance themselves enough from the emotion. I will be getting the house at slightly lower than market value, because there is updating that needs to be done. I'm not getting that much of a deal (about $5k).

Just my $.02.

[badunnin]

bump

[Wendy w]

Thanks ladies. I just knew that you all would be the voice of reason. I just need to chill a little, think it over and treat it like business.

((((((((Bethany)))))))) Hang in there.

[Beth]

Wendy, more hugs and good wishes.

I think the attorney's advice is good. CA is a hot market and the advise there is to sell before interest rates go higher and tend to push prices down. CA is also a strained economy and housing could feel the impact -- amazing that it hasn't so far.

You mom will have a capital gain exemption on the sale of the house that will cover a good bit of the gain, but given the age of the house, probably not all of it. Fortunately, capital gains taxes are lower now than they used to be. What you would need to compare that to is what would happen if the house passes through her will -- would there be any taxes incurred. I don't kow the answer to that. There are some expemptions and depends on how things are set up -- the house will be the main thing other than cash and cash-like assets.

You have time to deal with how to invest if and when that happens. Don't worry about that right now. Just decide what is best for your mom. If you decide to sell, you owe it to your mom to sell at a good price. If you sell without a realtor who would require a 5-6% commission, you can justify maybe a 4-5% reduction off an appraised market value, but no more. Market price will take into account roof and termite work if they are needed for sale (if the roof isn't leaking, a new roof won't increase the value of the home -- trust one who sold a home with a brand new roof and would have rather had the cash -- termite repaurs will be needed for the buyer to get a mortgage, but not routine prevention). You need 1-2% to cover closing costs -- an attorney or realtor to handle the transaction. Possible to do it without, but will protect your interests and your mom's. Important 3rd party distance in the family situation.

Also keep in mind the terms of the living trust...who can make decisions and how. The trust imposes a legal obligation to handle your mom's assest for her benefit -- another card to play in dealing with family. Also, if your mom still has things in the house, make it very clear what, if anything, would be sold with the house.

You're right -- think of it as handling a business deal for your mom's benefit. You may not be able to make everyone happy, but that's not your job. Looking out for your mom is, and anyone trying to take advantage of the situation may be unhappy with that. Tough.

I know that doesn't make it easier. Just trying to offer support for what I know is hard under the best of cirumstances. It does seem like things snowball sometimes and the melodrama of life can be overwhelming. From the auto repair thread, I gather that you are kind and patient to the point others may take advantage. Just remember to be firm when you need to be firm and let go where you can let go. Hang in there. (((( ))))

[LonghornGal]

(((Wendy)))


I know this isn't much consolation, but I'm assembling your swap package now. So you have something fun to look forward to this week. :)

You've gotten good advice - i agree with it - demand fair market value for your mom - the appraiser will take into account the roof, termites, overall condition, etc, so there is no need to discount for that.

You are a rockstar, good luck at the fair, and enjoy that great CA weather. :)

--Kristin

[colleency]

(((Wendy)))

I think everyone has given you good advice. Don't give in to pressure. Make the decision with your sibs. Sell the house for what it's worth.

[Gail]

I'm so sorry this seems to be falling on your shoulders and believe me, I relate. Sometimes it just seems way too much to bear.

You've already gotten some good thoughts, so I don't have too much to offer. Personally, I'd sell the house. I'd do as Bethany suggested, getting appraisals, going to your nephew with the number. Look, he's NOT in a position to make you feel obligated to sell to him at a deal. You're holding the trump card as I see it. He can squirm and whine and try to make you feel guilty because he's family yada-yada, but in the end, all you have to do is say, "Yes, you're absolutely right. And under perfect circumstances I'd love to give it to you for a fraction of the cost. But, Mom is ill now and she NEEDS that money to pay for her nursing costs. I'm sure you'd do the same for your mom."

[mbrogier]

I'm sorry your sister is making you feel guilty for putting your mom's interests first. I think you've gotten some good advice. Stick to your guns. I think you're doing the right thing by trying to get the best price. I can't believe people have the nerve to think that their lives are so much busier than yours. :rolleyes: (((Wendy)))

[Wendy w]

Thanks everyone, as always, you are very wise. I am going to go pick up my BF from the train station and then we are going out to dinner with friends tonight. Selling the house seems like less of a headache than renting. It is just how they went about it that bugs me.

Kristin, it is too funny as I finally put the stuff that I bought for you into a box and now all I need to do is buy packing tape and mail it. You should be getting your's this next week too. :)

[HejazSunKat]

Originally posted by Beth
Also keep in mind the terms of the living trust...who can make decisions and how. The trust imposes a legal obligation to handle your mom's assest for her benefit -- another card to play in dealing with family.

Originally posted by Gail
I'd do as Bethany suggested, getting appraisals, going to your nephew with the number. Look, he's NOT in a position to make you feel obligated to sell to him at a deal. You're holding the trump card as I see it. He can squirm and whine and try to make you feel guilty because he's family yada-yada, but in the end, all you have to do is say, "Yes, you're absolutely right. And under perfect circumstances I'd love to give it to you for a fraction of the cost. But, Mom is ill now and she NEEDS that money to pay for her nursing costs. I'm sure you'd do the same for your mom."

Right on. The most important thing here is what is in your Mom's best interest. The others are seeing the issue of the house from perspectives of the best benefit to them and, like the Service Manager who has been so rude to you at the dealership, you've surprised them by not being a good, compliant little doobie so you are getting pressure and guilt trips to try and make you cave. The fact that your nephew has to make some financial decisions within a certain time frame is totally irrelevant. That's HIS problem.

I don't know how the decision making works in the case of living trusts - whether it has to be a unanimous decision of all the 'executors' (if that's the right term) or if the majority decides. If it's the former, and you have the ability to hold up the decision, I personally would not make a move until all of my questions had been answered and I was comfortable with the course of action. If that ends up working out for the benefit of your newphew great, everybody's happy, if not well, in the immortal words of my (not-really-English-speaking-Egyptian) tennis coach: "So sad, so sorry". Hopefully, your Mom is going to live a long time and her care will not be cheap. She'll need the money that would be generated by the sale of this major asset.

You've gotten great advice and I can't offer much but moral support Wendy. I'm sure all the principles involved are at heart good people but their thinking is clouded by their own wants and your instincts that this is turning into a rush job for the wrong reasons seem right on the money.

[crlykat]

Wendy, I'm so sorry you are going through this! I know how much family pressure can cause heartache. I agree with everyone--your nephew's issues are his own problems, and you should do what's best for your mom.
{{Wendy}}

[VALERIEA234]

FOR YOUR OWN PEACE OF MIND, AND RESTFUL NIGHTS. DO NOT DEAL WITH ANY FAMILY OR FRIENDS, IN TERM OF $$$$$$$ AND OR PURCHASE.
YOU MAY HAVE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE..DOWN THE ROAD...

[swquilts]

(((Wendy))) Big hugs out to my fellow Californian!

Check with a tax person about capital gains. I believe that after a certain age a person can have one large sale of property and avoid the tax...especially in the case of an older person.

DO NOT sell the house for less that its worth. Housing in CA is at a premium right now and there's no reason to drop the price. Besides, you and your sisters will be the beneficiary of any funds from your mom's estate, not your nephew. If he really wants the house, he can pay a fair price.

Keep your spirits up girl....go get 'em! :D

[ccooney]

(((((Wendy)))))
I am so sorry you must go through this difficulty now.
Never having bought or sold a house, I don't know how much my advice in that area is worth, so I'll just say that what folks have said here makes a lot of sense. It seems to me that the more advice you get from sources you trust (your mother's attorney, the elder care attorney, friends whose opinion you value, etc.), the more informed a decision you can make. And that can't be a bad thing.

[BarbaraL]

I think you've gotten good advice. Charge fair market value (if you don't use a realtor, perhaps you could deduct the realtor's percentage). You have to make the best deal for your mom.

If your family feels Nephew should get a deal, you could always consider giving him money back from your mother's estate after she passes and you no longer have to worry about paying for her care. But if you sell to him at a low price, you'll never be able to get the discount back.

I'm sorry you're going through this difficult situation. I've had to deal with my mom's health issues while other family members commented from afar. They were supportive of me and my decisions, but I was the one "in the trenches". If you haven't gone through it, you don't realize all the details that need to be handled, arrangements made, and all the worry and headaches.

[Wendy w]

My sister called me yesterday because the owner of her facility had put a call in to each of us about Mom's care. The owner (a geriatric psychologist), Dr., and nurse had a meeting and let us know that her medication is making her paranoid and sluggish. They wanted to put her into a special geriatric psych hospital for evaluation or to have a psychiatrist come to her facility. I spoke to the owner and said that since Mom has never been one to handle change well and had a terrible experience last year, I felt that the Dr. should come to where she was familiar to not disupt things. My sister is in agreement with me and we are very happy with the new owner of the place, we are all on the same page.

And...she apologized for last week. She had spoken with my out of state sister and she said to not sell the house. She told me that I was right because she now had gotten 2 different stories from our sister. :rolleyes:

Btw: out of state sister and I haven't spoken in about 3 months because she told me that I don't make enough $$ to be a member of a certain political party. I happen to be an independant as I have great contempt for both parties. :rolleyes: I found her comment to be incredibly snobbish so we haven't spoken and in truth, life has been a bit more pleasant because our last 3 conversations haven't been. Local sister (jokingly) wanted to tell her to see Farenheit 9/11 then to decide. :p

Anyway...politics aside, my sister also said that she would love to have her family closer and that they would have a long commute, but she hated being put into the situation of making a hasty decision. I told her that it wouldn't hurt to get the appraisals and that we should consider selling because neither of us were up to the challenge as my nephew and wife are of fixing the place up. I got the impression that they may not want it after all, since we would not give them a "deal". She also said that she really hopes that if there is anything left in the future that I can buy a place of my own.

Again, thank you all for your support during this difficult time. There are blessings going on now too, like having good friends, and I believe that I have met the love of my life. ;)

[Beth]

;) Sounds like things are not easy, but better than they were. Keep us posted. :) ((( )))

Like your tag line! :D

[lhall]

(((Wendy)))

I'm late getting to this thread, but am in a similar situation with my grandmother. My Aunt who is supposed to take care of her (and doesn't) is finally moving my grandmother into Assisted Living. She's 88. Anyways, we all got mad at her because my grandmother is living in horrid conditions and my cousin who is being paid (a lot) to take care of her so my aunt doesn't have to...isn't. She's at least getting the house cleaned (now, after we got mad)

My aunt wants to keep my grandmother's house and rent it out or let her son live in it. No one is happy with this becuase we don't feel it's right to keep my grandmother's money tied up in the house (not at age 88). If my aunt were to buy my grandmother's house for FMV we'd all be happy. As it is she's mooching of my grandmother and keeping her money tied up in a house that could take many months to sell.

My opinion is that you need to sell the house. Your mom is at an age where she needs easier access to her money if/when she needs it. Don't make a deal, but get your mom her money where it's easily accessible.

Keep in mind, I am NOT accusing you of mooching off your mother. I know how my aunt is, and she has taken advantage of my grandmother for years. She's more concerned with herself and her lazy, useless son than with my grandmother.

Leigh