Need help from those who know about babies/toddlers

[Grace]

My younger sister and her husband were FINALLY able to adopt a baby about 3 weeks ago (although he's already 15 months old, so he's not a tiny baby anymore)! They had to go to Serbia to do it (her DH is a Serbian guy), and they've been trying to have a baby/adopt for 12 years with no luck until now! It's also the first baby in our family. We are 4 kids total, and my oldest sister is 49, brother is 45, I'm 41 and little sis is 37. None of the rest of us have ever had any kids, so my Mom had given up hope of being a grandmother. But now we have Mihailo (that's his name) and we're all thrilled (especially my Mom)! My sister still doesn't have immigration papers to bring him home, and we haven't seen him in person yet, but she sends lots of digital pictures and daily updates on his progress.

In any case, she sent me this email this morning, and while I could do a google search myself, I thought someone here might be able to point me to some good resources. She's looking for food/nutrition information for babies/toddlers. Here's her email:

I have been meaning to ask you for some help with
some info finding. When you have some time, can you
look up and send us some sources for some dietary
guidelines for babies...over a time range of a year
and up?

We would just like some more specific information than
we have been given so that we know if we are being
reasonable with the amount of food he gets. He has
gained weight (which is good) and LOVES to eat. We
just want to know what is the recommended amount,
frequency, etc. We got some guidelines from the
orphanage, but it wasn't very specific or helpful. He
ate totally differently there, and so anything you can
send would be great. He is getting a very round face
and big legs...I think he'll need that meat to grow
big and strong...and he is getting heartier and
heartier, changing by the hour (literally).

It is such a privilege to watch!

Thanks. We really appreciate it.

I know the people on this board are the smartest and most resourceful people on the planet, so I thought to come here first! Thanks for any help any of you can give me! :D

[mlynn]

Grace--

how exciting for your family.
i was reading somethig about this last night in a parenting magazine. I'll look for it now. I also have a great kids cookbook recommendation. Let me unpack the box--we just moved.

Be back soon...

[clairea]

Hmmm, I typed a reply but it seems to have disappeared:confused: . There is an excellent book called Child of Mine: Feeding with Love and Good Sense, that I recommend to everyone I know. Here (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0923521518/qid=1090420218/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-3486040-8010467) is a link to the book on Amazon.

Claire

[slknight]

Grace, how exciting for your sister and your family! Alex is also 15 months, so Mihailo and he are the same age.

Anyway, I highly recommend Child of Mine: Feeding with Love and Good Sense by Ellyn Satter. It is the authoritative reference book on feeding babies and children. I'd give you my copy, but I'm still using it. She also wrote a few other books that might be worth checking out.

The book discusses tons of issues about eating, like what their needs are, power struggles, introducing new foods, etc. It's got a few charts in it that she might find useful. Let me see what I can type up.

[Grace]

Thank you so much! I appreciate everyone's help so much.

Here is a picture of baby Mihailo (although they're going to call him Michael when he comes home - Mihailo was the name he already had when they got him from the orphanage).

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid130/p55b6f193bf24721ab31c428c15635ea1/f7c26bb7.jpg

[slknight]

Satter says these are the minimum requirements:

Bread, cereal, rice and pasta group: 6 servings
Fruit group: 2 servings
Vegetable group: 3 servings
Fruti and veggie groups put together: 5 servings
Meat, poultry, fish, dry beans, eggs, and nuts group: 2 servings
Milk, yogurt, and cheese group: 2 servings

Portion Sizes for Ages 1-3 years
Meat, poultry, fish: 1-2 Tbsp
Eggs: 1/4
Cooked dried beans: 1-2 Tbsp
Pasta, rice, potatoes: 1-2 Tbsp
Bread: 1/4 slice
Veggies: 1-2 Tbsp
Fruit: 1-2 Tbsp or 1/4 piece
Milk: 1/4-1/3 cup
Fats and oil: To appetite
Sugars and sweets: See text (there's a whole section)

[slknight]

Grace, he's beautiful! I wish we lived nearby. He and Alex could be buddies.:)

[lindrusso]

I don't have any specific sources per se - it's been so long for me and I'm sure there are other things out there now.

I think that parents ALWAYS worry about how much and tend to worry that baby isn't getting enough. Thing is, you can really let baby dictate that quite a bit. What looks like a tiny amount to us can be plenty for a child. If he's gaining weight and filling out, he's doing just fine.

As for what to eat, it's pretty much common sense - a variety of fruits and veggies, etc. And not to worry if they turn there noses up at a lot of things and will only eat cereal (or whatever the food of the hour is) for days at a time. They will get what they need one way or the other.

Dr. Terry Brazleton has a few books out there and I always liked his approach. He is sensible and laid back, very reassuring that there are many, many "normals". Some books give you the "average" or what they call "normal" and then you spend half your time worrying because your child is not fitting this one-size-fits-all approach. I don't know if he has any specific books on nutrition, but I know that one of his books does touch on it.

Best of luck to your sister and her new baby. How exciting! I'm sure he will be spoiled rotten as the only grandchild (in a good way, of course ;) ).

Alysha :)

[leebee]

I second what Alysha said. Finding guidelines is fine, but don't feel bound by them. My son is 3 1/2, and his eating habits change daily! I think I've had the best luck not pushing him to finish or try what's on his plate, and letting him have more when he is hungry. He also is more likely to eat something when he helps me cook. He'll go one week loving lasagne, pears, broccoli and carrots--and then the next week he's back to waffles with peanut butter & nothing else. I just don't worry about it. He's healthy, happy, and steadily growing. If he goes the first 20 years of his life never eating eggplant, then so be it! I have heard that to successfully introduce a new food to a toddler, you have to present it 5 or more times. So if the applesauce, toast and cheese diet works for awhile, then go with the flow!

[donleyk]

Oh Grace! How sweet he is! I don't have any suggestions for you just a hardy congrats to you and your family.

[lxn1996]

I also wanted to pass along my congratulations and good wishes to your family :). How exciting for all of you! I'm sure baby Michael will be spoiled being the first nephew and grandbaby.

[stefania4]

What a cutie - congratulations, Aunt Grace!

[boys03]

what a sweet face he has. a note on what NOT to give him -peanut butter and chocolate - at least not until he is past 2 yrs of age - just in case he has allergies. I now have 3 healthy grown sons, one at that age only ate cereal, banana and vanilla wafers - he looks like a football player now. What they ate one week, they won't eat the next. The best advice is to be flexible.

[Beth]

From the round faced comment, and the comment that he LOVES to eat, it sounds like she is more concerned about him eating too much rather than not enough. If he has been in an orphanage, he may be very excited about new attention and new foods. Parents may have to help learn protion control so that he doesn't over do it and then learn to think of that as normal. Sweets are not needed and many experts recommend trying to avoid them altogether until after the age of 2.

On the other side, some pudge is perfectly normal in healthy toddlers, especially before tehy start walking and running. By the time they are 2 years old, they start thinning down and changing to kid shape. Trying to make kids too thin or feeding them lowfat diets can be a bad thing too -- I remember a coworked who was so worried about her son that she was trying to hiughly restrict his fat intake. I hope she saw the studies that showed that fats are needed for normal growth and development -- especially the myelin sheath of the nerves.

[slknight]

Originally posted by Beth

I hope she saw the studies that showed that fats are needed for normal growth and development -- especially the myelin sheath of the nerves.


Yes, this is important. She needs to give him whole milk (not lowfat) because the fat is needed for brain development. The book I mentioned has lots of info on eating "issues."

A previous poster said no chocolate or peanut butter until age 2. The same goes for shellfish - not until 2. I have actually heard that they are now recommending no peanut butter until age 3.

There is a "Feeding Baby" forum on the Baby Bargains Boards:
https://supportcenteronline.com/ics/tt/ticketDetail.asp?ticket_id=235904

They've got lots of great feeding info there, as well as an adoption forum and other boards on baby gear, clothes, etc. She might want to check them out. I spend almost as much time over there as I do here.:p

[Grace]

Originally posted by Beth
From the round faced comment, and the comment that he LOVES to eat, it sounds like she is more concerned about him eating too much rather than not enough. If he has been in an orphanage, he may be very excited about new attention and new foods. Parents may have to help learn protion control so that he doesn't over do it and then learn to think of that as normal. Sweets are not needed and many experts recommend trying to avoid them altogether until after the age of 2.



Beth, you hit the nail on the head. This is precisely her concern. She says he will eat absolutely everything, and isn't picky in the slightest. So she's not at all worried about him turning up his nose at stuff, she's afraid of over-feeding him. I don't know anything about kids to give her any kind of advice, I'd actually probably be worried about the same thing. So I think she was more wondering what proper portion sizes are and how much total food in a day is necessary and work from there.

I think the chart that Susan posted is a GREAT start - thank you so much, Susan! It at least give her a guideline of what a portion size is, and she can adjust accordingly.

I was able to download a chapter of the "Child Of Mine" book, and I will email that to her as a start. It's difficult to get her stuff over there. I am trying to ship her a box of clothes and other stuff, and Fed Ex doesn't go there anymore, and the post office has, as of July 1st, contracted with Fed Ex to do their priority shipping. I haven't been to the post office yet, but I have a feeling my only option is going to be the "slow boat" option, which isn't an option at all for us. She could be home by the time any package arrives there.

So I'm going to have to email her as much information as possible - I can get her the book when she gets back. From the chapter I read from Child of Mine, they said repeatedly not to restrict children from eating - they regulate themselves just fine. So I think I'll mention to her to let him eat if he's hungry, but if she's concerned he's gaining too much to give him more vegetables/healthy snacks and not too much sweets (I don't know if she's giving him sweets at all, actually, they're not real big sweet eaters in general, so she's probably not, but who knows?!).

And thanks too for the info on peanut butter and chocolate. I don't know that they even have peanut butter in Serbia, but I'm sure they have chocolate. So I'll pass that information on to her for sure.

Thanks again so much everyone for all the good wishes and information! I'm going to pass everything on to her and I know she'll be grateful too!

Someday when we finally get to meet him in person, I'll post a picture of me with my new nephew! :D

[mlynn]

Hmmm my follow-up is missing so I'll repost. The book I have is called Healthy Baby Meal Planner (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671750194/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-0976006-1307269#reader-link) I think the info for younger children is a bit out of line with current thinking, but the Toddler info is great--lots of ideas for fun, nutritious meals.

mlynn

[slknight]

Originally posted by Grace


Beth, you hit the nail on the head. This is precisely her concern. She says he will eat absolutely everything, and isn't picky in the slightest. So she's not at all worried about him turning up his nose at stuff, she's afraid of over-feeding him. I don't know anything about kids to give her any kind of advice, I'd actually probably be worried about the same thing. So I think she was more wondering what proper portion sizes are and how much total food in a day is necessary and work from there.


Alex will eat most anything right now too. I think that the real pickiness happens a bit later (maybe in the 2-year old range). I have heard many people say that their kids ate anything when they were younger, and then became picky.

Not that I'm an expert, but I don't think I would worry too much about over-feeding him right now. He may be excited to try new foods, but toddlers in general will self-regulate. Also, they may eat quite a bit for a few days and then not so much the next day. There have been days where I have been absolutely amazed at the amount of food that Alex consumes (4 pancakes!), and then it seems like he doesn't eat at all the next day.

As long as he's not becomely grossly obese, and she's not feeding him anything too unhealthy (like soda and big macs), she probably shouldn't stress about it too much. I know, easier said than done!

[HRJ]

Grace, I'm so happy for your whole family. Congrats to the happy parents, to grandma and to Aunt Grace. Michael is such a sweet-looking boy. :)

If our experience from our early days with Victor is any judge, you can tell your sister that Michael's eating habits probably will change once he's settled in at home, so not to get too concerned about the way he may be eating now. When Victor first came to us, he was a very "compliant" eater -- he ate anything we gave him; as much as we gave him. (I went around for the first three weeks or so, smugly thinking, "oh, my kid is a great eater!! No fussy eaters here!" :rolleyes: )

However, after the first three weeks or so at home, he became more comfortable, and began to exert his own food preferences, and, also, to moderate his consumption -- he stopped eating stuff simply because it was placed in front of him, and began responding more to "internal cues" of hunger. I think at first, he was overwhelmed by the transition; also, he probably wanted to please these new people (DH and I) who were suddenly lavishing so much attention on him.

Also, I understand that children who have been in orphanages may tend to overeat or stuff themselves at meals, because they may have been accustomed to having food in short supply, or less-than-adequate portions, so they figure they need to eat as much as possible while the food is available. (I think there's been a lot written about how to handle that in the adoption literature, if your sister needs more information.) That, too, I think, is something that will change as time goes on and he becomes more secure in his new surroundings.

I'm sure the various guidelines that are out there will be helpful, especially while they are still in Serbia. Once they're back home, they should get more specific recommendations from Michael's pediatrician, or a doctor who specializes in international adoption medicine. Michael may have specific nutrition/dental issues that are not present in the "typical" North American child that most of these guidelines are developed for. Most internationally adopted kids, even those who were relatively well-cared-for, need to do some "catching up" once they get to the U.S. For example, most guidelines say kids should start drinking low-fat or non-fat milk at 2 years; Victor's pediatrician wanted him drinking whole milk until he was at least 2 1/2.

Hope I'm not sounding too preachy here. Best wishes to your sister and her family for a good journey back to the U.S.

Helene

[Grace]

Oh Helene, that was exactly the information I was looking for (and by NO means preachy!!)! Thank you so much for all your input. You are exactly the person who would know how she's feeling and what she's dealing with! Thank you, thank you.

I am going to send your post directly to her to read for herself. She will be so happy to hear from someone else who has dealt with the same situation. She's very isolated there. Serbia is still a terrible country. The pollution is horrific, it's backwards and you can't get much there like you can in most other Westernized countries. They do have a few friends there, thankfully, but no family network and no sort of "adoption support group" or anything. They didn't go through an agency from this side, they went directly to the adoption agency in Belgrade because her DH is a Serb. So they don't have anyone on this end either to help them through anything. They're totally on their own, except for the limited information they got from the Serbian government adoption agency where they got Mihailo.

Thank you all again, and if anyone else comes up with anything more, I will keep sending it on to her. She'll be thrilled.

And thanks for all the well wishes from everyone too. And Susan (slknight) I never responded to your comment about wishing to live closer - I wish you lived closer too! But for selfish reasons (so I could hang out with YOU!) as my sister lives in Knoxville, not Chicago, so even when they do come home, I won't be seeing my little nephew all that often. But we will do what we can to see him as often as we can anyway. :D

[ande]

I'm a registered dietitian and I attended one of Ellyn Satter's workshops a few years ago. I highly recommend her books, and I second the advice you've gotten here not to restrict his feeding. Kids who've had an unpredictable food supply or feeding schedule often eat as much as they can. Maybe he hasn't had the opportunity yet to be full and satisfied with a meal. Learning to listen to his body's hunger and satiety cues may be something he has to learn. But he needs to learn it in a neutral environment--one where there isn't any pressure or expectation from his new parents, and one where there aren't any outside limits imposed on his portions. Ellyn talks a lot about division of responsibility with feeding...the parents are in charge of the what, where and when of eating; the child is in charge of the whether and how much. She also talked specifically about adopted kids at her workshop (I'm not sure if this is in her books) and how common it is for kids to eat enormous amounts of food at first. She emphasized that parents should not intervene or try to control the portions, and that once the child gets comfortable the eating will normalize.

Anyway, hope this was helpful. Congratulations to your family and best of luck!

Anita

[tracey67]

Well you've gotten great advice from everybody already so I feel kind of superfluous posting, but I'll add my second-hand and first-hand experience to the mix.

Second-hand wise...I have a friend whose friends (wait...is this "third-hand" :confused: ) adopted a child from somewhere in the former Soviet Union. Because this child had been denied access to adequate food and nutrition pretty much his entire life, they found that once they started feeding him he literally ate until he threw up. He just never had had access to much food before so when it was offered to him he didn't know how to stop (or maybe didn't want to). Anyway, this went on for about two weeks (can you imagine a child eating until he barfed at EVERY meal for two WEEKS!). But after about two weeks when he saw that he could have all the food he wanted and it wasn't going away, he started to regulate his intake and eat normal amounts. They've had him for a few years now and he's totally fine with normal eating habits and normal weight.

To your sister I would say to NOT limit his food in any way. This will only make him think that it's something scarce and that he had to hoard it. Let him have all he wants (even if he gets sick from eating too much). I would bet that in a week or two it starts to level off and he'll feel comfortable knowing that the food is there is start eating just until he is full.

The Ellyn Satter books are WONDERFUL too, BTW, and I would also highly recommend them. My first-hand experience is with my 15-month old son and I've used her books to help me with feeding him. He can be picky like any kid his age, but generally he's a great eater who will eat a ton one day and almost nothing the next day. I never limit how much he eats, nor do I force him to eat any amount. I let his needs dictate the amount that he eats. And in terms of being a picky eater, this is the one trick I've picked up that has helped: he loves to mimic me and his father. He wants to do whatever we're doing. I find that if I try to feed him something new, he'll refuse it. If I try to eat something while simultaneously offering it to him, he'll also refuse it. But I find that if I eat something (while he's eating something else) and I don't even offer him what I'm eating, he'll soon start grabbing for it and will eat it enthusiastically once I finally give it to him. This happened just today with a peach. He's never wanted to try a peach before (although I've offered them to him at least 20 times previously). So today at lunch while he was eating his sandwich, I started eating a peach in front of him (and did NOT offer it to him). After he watched me take the second bite he was reaching out his arms at me. So I cut a few pieces for him and he ate almost half the peach! This similar scenario has happened and worked before.

Also...one final note, in case your nephew does become picky. It can sometimes take 10-20 times of a child trying something before they will accept it, so tell your sister to not give up if he starts to turn his nose at something.

Good luck and CONGRATULATIONS to your sister and your whole family!

[Canice]

Grace, I know less about children than you do, so thank goodness for this BB!

I just wanted to say that Mihailo is a beautiful little boy and so, so, fortunate to have a loving family standing by, ready to welcome him home and take him in their arms. I believe firmly that the most fortunate children in the world are those who are wanted and adored by their parents. Lucky Mihailo, and all his new family! :)

[eas11]

Nothing new to add to the great advice and resources others have given you. But, I did want to say Congrats! He is beautiful :)

[Grace]

This board is indeed wonderful. I found this place 4-1/2 years ago and I still spend a good portion of my day here. The people here are the kindest, most intelligent and helpful and supportive people there are. Thank you all! And thank you all again for the wonderful wishes. We are excited, to be sure. I will post the response from my sister this morning to all the information I passed on to her. Sounds like they are doing just fine. Oh, and she calls him "Mickey" which is pronounced "Meeky", not like "Mickey mouse" - it's like the Serbian pronounciation of our "Mikey".

THanks, Gracie,

Your friend's words ring true for Mickey (she means Helene's post!). We knewthat he was accustomed to eating everything in front
of him as a form of habit. He has already indicated
now when he is full, and if I stop giving him food, he
can point to the bowl when he wants more.

I wondered about the chocolate, but he only has eaten
about two cookies with chocolate thus far and we
haven't seen any effects.

Mickey seems to be catching up fast. He is needing a
little less sleep, pacing his eating and walking more.
Unfortunately, we have little access to literature
here and all of this was such short notice. We could
hardly believe it when it was happening. We'll go
over the portions with Mickey (the ones that SLKnight posted).
The main thing is that he eats a lot of fresh vegetables, fruit, milk, some portion of veal or chicken and eggs. I usually mix a
few things together (with cheese or something) and he eats.

He is a social eater and loves to sit with Jovan and
eat. He particularly enjoys bread. He wouldn't be a
good Serb without his bread! He also is good about
drinking water which we need to give him a lot of
during this horrible heat wave. We are stuck inside
most of the time these days as it is in the 100 degree
range. Horrible and today it is muggy.

Mickey wants less food in this heat, too.

This morning we said, "Where's Mickey?" and he pointed
to himself! It was great.

He is sleeping now and I get to go clean the kitchen.

Thanks again, Gwacie, and we'll let you know when we
have more questions. We ahve so many things we are
trying to figure out on this end to get home and it is
all very vague. THe main thing is that we are
together and enjoying each other so much. I don't
want to take this time for granted, even though the
living circumstances are not exactly easy.

Talk to you later!

[MISSINDI]

Congratulations on the new addition to your family!

Our doctor also advised no citrus until 2. Hope this helps!

[slknight]

Grace, I wanted to bump this back up for you because I was just reading the Satter book and found a part about adoption and toddler eating. She says: "At first when these deprived children get in the midst of plenty, they eat enormous quantities of food and never seem to get filled up. If adults are able to reassure the child and tell her over and over again that she may eat all she wants and she will have enough to eat, it generally isn't too long before the child's eating settles down and she stops eating so desperately. However, if adults are alarmed by the child's eating and try to reduce or even restrict the amounts she eats, it further alarms the child and makes her eat all the more."

I also wanted to let you know that apparently Ellyn Satter does free phone consultations. A woman on the Baby Bargains Board was having terrible problems with her (non-adopted) child. She e-mailed and requested a referral for a local dietician and Satter's assistant phoned her and asked if she'd like a free 15-minute phone conversation. Here's hoping your sister won't need one, but it's nice to know that she could probably get one if she does.

[imloulou]

Oh Grace...congratulations to your sister and your entire family. I got all goosebumpy and teary-eyed reading your posts and her replies and seeing his sweet little picture.

Mickey is ADORABLE! Ya just want to pinch his little cheeks and give him a bunch of hugs and kisses...I am sure he is getting all of the above.

Best of luck to your sis and her new family!!!