Town Drunks- what to do??

[MrsReber]

I am not thrilled with the neighborhood I live in, but it's okay. I never feel that I'm not safe or anything and we have our share of minor crimes (nothing out of the ordinary). Ever since I moved here 8 years ago, we have had these 2 drunks who walk around all the time,a man and a woman. Every so often, they disappear and we find out later that they have been locked up. They're sort of a couple, but the woman is known to do "favors" for other (trashy) men in the neighborhood. DH has given them venison on occasion because they have nothing to eat. They are basically harmless and have never done anything bad to us.

Now we have 2 small children and I don't like these two talking to me or especially talking to the kids when we're outisde.

Here's what I'm wrestling with. I know they have no money and no food. Last night at 8:00, I was outside with the dog. They came walking down the street and started yelling out to me. The man said "ma'am, I know your husband. Does he have a cigarette?" I told him no, we don't smoke. Then he says that my husband drinks Bud and he'd like a beer. I told him no and besides, DH was not home. He was out on his bike and would be coming home shortly. He tells me he needs food and the woman they live with won't feed them. He says that the woman with him is very hungry and hasn't eaten. Could I make her a sandwich? They are unintelligible- either drunk or some kind of drugs, but most likely drunk. I'm home alone with my 2 kids, who are now curious about these people outside. I finally agree to make a sandwich, expecting them to leave. They sit ON MY PORCH while the woman eats. I go out there and they start talking about something. I can't understand them. The kids then get up and come outside. DS wants to play with the nice lady! I get them back in the house and call DH. Three times. He finally answers on the third time. I tell him COME HOME NOW! 5 minutes later, they ring the doorbell. Kids are up again. The man is asking me to get him more food! I told him no. He says he's hungry. I told him I have kids to feed (the woman understands this). He says to her "sit down and shut up!" then starts asking for more food. They finally leave about a minute before DH gets home.

What do I do? Do I call the cops? I am getting nervous about them being around. I don't want them near my kids, I hate having them at my door, and I know they'll be back. By the way, DH is the one who started giving them venison on occasion and has been friendly with the guy. My concern is that they'll come here out of their minds one day. We won't be home and they'll break in. DH says this won't happen, but they are wacked out most of the time. Is there something I can do? Someone I could call? If I call the cops, they'll just be out on the street again. They haven't really done anything wrong. The woman told me she's on probation starting Tuesday and won't be allowed to drink. She's upset about that!

[Jazzmatazz49]

Isn't there some kind of shelter or mission in your town? It's very nice of you to want to feed them, but (and I'm going to get flamed for this) if you feed a stray cat they hang around your house forever. I think the same thing is going on here.

There was a rash of begging going on under the overpass near us, and a local priest went on the evening news and said there is no reason for begging since there are 2 shelters here that will take care of the needs of the homeless or indigent. Maybe you could find out about that and give them the information. They may not want to go to a mission since they won't give them alcohol, but you would have done your best to help.

[mbrogier]

That's the only concern with helping people like this. They want more and more. There should be a mission or shelter in the area, but I'm guessing they don't like it there. I helped a family who's kids went to my church. I gave them clothes and food for Christmas, but the mom was always calling me wanting money so she could party, etc. I never saw the kids wearing the clothes I gave them for Christmas either...its a shame. They didn't have many winter clothes. It wasn't the kids fault the mom was messed up so I tried to help them. In my experience the adults never change.

I would want to know why these two are in jail...are they violent? I wouldn't want them around my house drunk.

[MrsReber]

That's exactly my problem- they want more because they know we helped out. My internal conflict is that I do want to help them if they're hungry, but I am not going to keep helping them. They need to help themselves. I know after 7+ years that they don't want to help themselves. I believe the woman does have some real psychological problems and she should probably be locked away for a while in detox. I don't understand why this can't be done or how it could be done.

From what I understand, they are only violent toward each other. I think the man was locked up for hitting the woman. They may have also been locked up for public drunkeness or drinking in public. They have also on occasion parked themselves at someone's house or in front of someone's house. I was worried last night that they weren't going to leave. They just fight with each other constantly. The man is verbally abusive.

I would like to call the township and see if they know what's going on with them or if they'd even tell me anything. It's very uncomfortable having them walking around. Though they seem harmless, there's no telling what they'd do on a combination of drugs and alcohol, or even just alcohol. It's okay when DH is home because he deals with them while I take the kids inside.

[jmarie]

I understand your fears. My husband has done the same thing in the past...only we didn't live in a neighborhood, where they could get to us, HE BROUGHT them home! Either way, it is terrifying, when they show up, again, and your DH is not at home.

You need to tell your husband that since he was the one who started this, he is the one who needs to put a stop to it. That they overstepped the boundaries to his kindness. That if they see HIM outside of the house and want to stop to speak, that is fine, but that you, with two small children, can not tend to their demands, because you are too busy tending to your children.

Or call the police. Being locked up must be something they are accustomed to and besides, once there, they are fed. So, maybe you would be doing them a favor.

Sadly, once they know there is a place they can get food without a lot of crap from authorites, they will come back for more. The man is shameless. He could care less. I feel sure she does the tricks to support him. She exhibited a bit of shame when he had to speak to her in such an ugly manner.

I am sorry that you are going through this. These are scary times we live in, people do terrible things to one another. Your husband would probably have little problem defending you against these people, but he can't be there 24/7...you need to make him aware of the real ramifications of this. (But I guess you have already done this.)

Good luck and I hope you get this worked out, real soon. (Maybe if they come back again, and your DH isn't home, you could call the police out to speak to them and ncourage them to leave the neighborhood, w/o putting them in jail. Call the police and speak to them, in advance. Tell them you are afraid of ramifications, should they arrest them at your house. Or maybe you could call 9?11 and have them drive by, each time they approach you.

Let us know how it goes.
Joyce

One more thing...if you are a Christian and this means anything to you. (and maybe other faiths and non-Christians feel this way too) We are commanded to feed the poor. But to me, there is a BIG difference in feeding someone who is poor and someone who uses handouts as a way to get by, so that they can remain unproductive. Feed a man a fish and you have fed him for a day, TEACH a man to fish and you have taught him to eat for life.

I think your husband's heart was in the right place. He just needed to take more into consideration, when he started giving them venison.

[HejazSunKat]

I think I'd err on the side of caution and discourage their presence as much as possible. I don't want to see a boogie man behind every tree but I keep thinking of the Elizabeth Smart case and how her kidnappers came into contact with the family in the first place because the mother and father were trying to help some down and out people.

If they show up again, I like the idea of telling them where the local mission or soup kitchen is located. For whatever reason they might not like it there but by feeding them you're giving them an alternative to going there. They have psychological issues that makes them live the life they're leading but they have learned to be manipulative and they are knowingly preying on your guilt to get what they want. I think you're going to have to be firm with them even if you feel like a hard @ss.

Does your neighborhood have community policing? If there's a precinct in your neighborhood you might want to go down there and talk to the officers. If these people roam the neighborhood chances are they are well known characters and the police might be able to give you some info about whether they're harmless or not or you will be alerting them to vagrants who are making a nuisance of themselves.

[imloulou]

All the suggestions above are great...the only thing I would add is to call the police now and let them know what is going on. Just give them the heads up. Let them know you are concerned enough that you feel you will be calling them in the future. This way if something happens and you need the police immediately they will have background to the situation.

Good luck and be careful!

[stefania4]

The prevailing theory amongst homeless shelter/service providers (what I do for a living) is that addressing hunger only with food, and not with wrap-around services for housing, employment, rehab, etc. is considered enabling. I think you'd be doing them a service to point them toward a shelter or soup kitchen. If they're chronic alcoholics, they may not be able to enter a shelter - many require 6 weeks of being drug/alcohol free before admittance.

Of course, as Jmarie points out, if you're a Christian this poses a conundrum given Jesus' commandments to feed the hungry (and I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible that encourages us to try to discern who is worthy of being given food and who isn't).

My personal opinion is that alcoholics are not in control of their behavior and you must, at all costs, protect yourself and your children.

[Pat58]

I say call the police and let them handle it. You have no obligation to feed or be harassed by these people. Maybe you feel a moral or spiritual obligation to feed the hungry, but your more important obligation is the safety of your children.

Times are quite changed from when Jesus taught us to feed the hungry. If your children need an explanation as to why you called the police, "so they can help them to help themselves." And ask the police to swing by your house regularly in their patrols.

Stay safe!

[MKSquared]

Please don't let this turn into a moral quandry for you! If you're concerned about the welfare of those who are hungry, spend time with a local organization that helps feed those very people, or if you don't have time, try money or food donations. Your children could even help. Help organizations that can help, and let them distribute your donations - they are better equipped for security matters!

If you do talk to the police, I'd let them know that you've been helping these people out - it may get a little ugly when you first start saying "no." I'm sure they're good people, harmless deep down, but once intoxicated with something, people's good intentions can get a little obscured.

[Grace]

OK MaryKate - this is getting scary..... :eek: ;) You and I agree again! :D :D

As the sister of a homeless brother (who's been homeless for 20 years), I agree with MK completely. You WILL be enabling these people, and you are not equipped to deal with them at all. Spending your time and/or money at a shelter that can help these people is wonderful and will do far more good than you doling out sandwiches here and there. And I love the idea of bringing your children to help too. It will teach them far more than anything they could learn in school, IMO.

[badunnin]

Originally posted by Grace
OK MaryKate - this is getting scary..... :eek: ;) You and I agree again! :D :D


It has been unusually chilly around here lately. Is hell freezing over? ;) J/K! :D

[Grace]

Nah, not possible - we have Global Warming , remember??!! :rolleyes: :p Sorry - I was just jonesing for the old days where MK and I disagreed on everything! :D :D :D

[jmarie]

Jesus commanded, "For I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me water; I was a stranger and you invited me into your homes; naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison and you visited me...When you did this to the least of those, you have done this unto me" (Matt 25: 35-40).

I took that as he commanded us to feed the hungry. But I guess I was wrong.

Give a man a fish you feed him for a day; teach him how to fish and you feed him for life." - Chinese proverb

I was combining two thoughts and didn't indicate that.

I DO think that it is wrong for someone to think that they can take care of drunks and drug abusers from their back door. Once these people know where you live, you might not be able to get rid of them. Think how easy would it be for them to case your place? Yes, I do think discernment is necessary. Sorry. But I think Jesus wants us to be careful and not stupid.

And GRACE, no offense, here.....
And I love the idea of bringing your children to help too.

I am not sure if I agree with you, here. Yes, a lot of these people are harmless, but with TB and AIDS on the rise....I am not sure if it would be wise to expose your children to this. You can let your children know where you are going and why, but I think it would be wise to let them help you by gathering toys, clothing, and food to drop off for the needy, helping an elderly person, helping a special needs child's family....I worry about children in soup kitchens.

[Grace]

I worked in a soup kitchen, and there was nothing to fear there. Even if the people there had AIDS (which I don't think they did, but it could be possible I guess), you don't get it from sitting in the same room with them - you get it from direct blood contact. There were so many adults around, and the homeless people weren't rowdy or out of control - they would just sit quietly and eat their dinners. Not to mention there were plenty of homeless children sitting there eating with their parents - something very sobering and good for children to see and understand, IMO - and I also think it's good for homeless children to have a generous, caring and friendly child smile at them and reach out to help them.

I certainly wouldn't try to convince you to bring your children there if you weren't comfortable with it, but I don't believe in shielding children from the realities of life either (of course, I wouldn't put them in danger - but I don't believe in teaching them that homeless people are always dangerous either - they're not). And danger is relative. Getting in the car and driving down the street is dangerous too.

Editing to add that when I say children, I don't mean a 4 or 5 year old - they're too young to be of real use IMO and would be in the way. I would be distracted with keeping an eye on such a young child and not able to concentrate on the work at hand, which is the point of being there. When I say children, I mean more like say, anything over 9 or 10 years old.

[jmarie]

Well, you have a point, there, Grace, and I commend you on your courteous reply. It is easy to see your intent in your reponse...sometimes that is hard to do, but you are always like this and I appreciate this!
Thanks!
Joyce!:D

[MrsReber]

Wow, thanks for all the input. I guess the reason it presents a problem for me is because they are at my door, dealing directly with me. I'm a very non-confrontational person so I don't really have the social skills to deal with this correctly, if that makes any sense.

DH called around 10:30 this morning to see if they'd been back. With as drunk as they were, I doubt they were up that early. I'd direct them to a shelter or a mission, but they still refuse to help themselves. This has literally been going on for over 7 years and probably more. I've only been here 7 years so I don't know if there's more history than that. I may call the police to get their view on things. Unfortunately, they haven't been much help with other things in the past.

My kids are a bit young to help out just yet. Maybe in a few years, but I do like that idea. I agree with the whole "teach a man to fish" theory, which is why I don't give any money to the homeless guy in front of the train station.

My thought last night was that they'd go away if I gave them something. Guess I was wrong. I know they'll be back again someday, but DH started that. He really is a good person who will help someone when they need it. I keep trying to convince him that the safety of his family is much more important. He let a perfect stranger sleep in our basement one night because he had nowhere to go. I freaked out on him and he just didn't get it. I was about 8 months pregnant at the time. The guy was the 18 year old boyfriend of the girl across the street. Her father refused to let him in the house. I think that's reason enough to keep him out of my house!

[ellery]

Chiming in here a bit late, I suppose. But I just wanted to add another vote for calling the police - notifying them of the situation in advance and asking for advice. As well as calling the police if they return to your property. Feeling charitable is all well and good, however they're trespassing and this situation just sounds volatile. Who knows how this guy will react to his food source drying up? Even if so far he's only been aggressive to his wife, it shows that he has aggressive tendencies and alcohol is just a match to that fuel. And as for feeling non-confrontational when you have people at your door - well, that's probably a good thing. There's something to be said for letting someone in a uniform confront an intoxicated person camped out on your doorstep as opposed to you... ;)

I too have worked with homeless people and therefore probably have less sympathy than the average bear for them. Services exist (admittedly not always the greatest in number or breadth) and they need to avail themselves of the appropriate resources, as opposed to camping out on your doorstep and begging. I used to see the most amazing things when I worked at a shelter - people buying our clients alcohol at the 7-11 across the street, people taking them out for meals, etc. All in the name of charity and trying to do a good deed. Typically the "poor homeless person" was drunk or high at the time, too, which just makes me shiver. Who in their right mind would invite an intoxicated stranger into their car?

There are many opportunities to be helpful on a more global level, such as volunteering at a soup kitchen, offering mentoring or job training counseling, etc. as opposed to focusing on the individual(s). It's much safer too.

Good luck with this situation and keep us posted.

:)

[mbrogier]

I was going to post on the line of if this guy is violent to his woman, its not much of a stretch to become violent to another woman. Ellery has stated that very eloquently. I'll just second that sentiment.

If your husband just doesn't get it, I'd just tell him that he might want to get it before he's on the news because some creep did something bad to his house or family. People just can't be trusted these days. Sad, but true. Helping out at a soup kitchen or shelter is a great controlled enviroment and keeps enabling to a minimum.

As for buying a drunk liquor...people are just stupid.

[Pat58]

Just chiming in again to ask that you consider this: many homeless people are homeless because of mental disorders running the gamut from chronic substance addictions to schizophrenia. Now this is NOT intended as disrespectful to people with mental illness - it's just that many fall through the cracks in our society and wind up on the streets. There is a situation in my area wherein the government shut down the state psychiatric hospital to save $$$. The patients were booted out onto the streets! Given their meds, told "take as prescribed, you're outta here."

I'm a non-confrontational person, too, so I understand. But please - just ask the police to step in and do the job they are trained to do. I'm worried for you!

And for heaven's sake, tell your DH that in the future he should take extra venison directly to the soup kitchen!

[jmarie]

And I don't want you to think I (we) think your husband is a bad person or a nitwit. Like I said earlier, his heart was in the right place. It was VERY thoughtful of him to give the venison to poor hungry people.

I am sure that his hindsight is about 20/20, right now, and I doubt that he will ever do this again. At least not in the same fashion. We are concerned for you, but apparently he is, too, or he wouldn't have called, bless his heart. When you make a mistake, it's hard to get it turned around sometimes, bit it is doable.

He sounds like a great guy!
Joyce
Let us know how it turns out!

[Escher]

Ok, I haven't read any of the replies yet, because the very core of my being was crying out: "Anything subsidized will continue"

The fact that your DH gave them food established him as a care-giver in these people's eye's.

Then, the fact that you compounded the error and fed them more is just reinforcing the lesson. I'm afraid their behavior was completely predictable given these actions.


On a sterner note, I am dismayed that you would allow these folks within 100yards of your children. I know your heart was trying to do "the right thing" but the right thing would be to put as many walls, cops, and bullets between your children and these folks as possible.

Want to help them? Take some food to the local homeless shelter, and tell them you are bringing their meal there. Food is bait, and you want to draw them _away_ from your home....

I would have called the cops, locked the children inside and loaded my pistol the moment they set up shop on my porch.

But, that's just me.

Now, I'll go back and read the other comments...

[Escher]

I see that some have discussed the religious commandment to feed the hungry...

All I can say, is that I'm sure Jesus would approve if you donated (time/food/money) to the local shelters, and helped the shelters assist these people.

Jehova's Witnesses have a neat way of distributing charity, from what I understand. Anything you need--housing, clothing, food will be provided to any that ask.... but it's not for free. You must offer your time in exchange, and they will put you to work using whatever skills you have.

I like the concept, because rather than a handout, people are earning their keep, and their self-dignity is preserved.

[BeachBum]

I think you've gotten some good comments so far and I just wanted to add to few points.
1) Most police have patrol areas. You don't need to call 911, just call the number in the phone book explain the situation and ask for increased patrols.
2)My husband is a lot like how you've discribed your husband,his generosity towards others is one of the reasons I love him. But sometimes I have to tell him that even though we don't agree, he needs to understand my need for security and simply respect my wishes.
3)As for how to handle the situation in speaking with them, I think I would just simply tell him my husband and I would not be feeding him anymore and there is a shelter/ soup kitchen located at X and if he came back I would be calling the police. I would be nice, but firm.

It is a tough situation to deal with, I hope that it resolves itself.
Best of luck.

[stefania4]

Originally posted by jmarie
Jesus commanded, "For I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me water; I was a stranger and you invited me into your homes; naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison and you visited me...When you did this to the least of those, you have done this unto me" (Matt 25: 35-40).

I took that as he commanded us to feed the hungry. But I guess I was wrong.How so? It sounds to me like he said to feed the hungry, too.

Originally posted by jmarie
Yes, I do think discernment is necessary. Sorry. But I think Jesus wants us to be careful and not stupid.I disagree about Jesus' intent - Matthew 5:42 - the only Bible I haven't packed is my children's Bible, which says "Give to the one who asks you for something. Don't turn away from the one who wants to borrow something from you." I just don't see anything in there about discerning whether it's safe or worthy or justified. My interpretation is that humanity is just not able to truly look into someone's heart and determine their need/intent and so it's a way of maintaining humility to realize that we just have to have faith that in following Jesus' Word, He will take care of the rest (easier said than done, for many of us!). Of course, that's just my interpretation, and there are other, equally valid interpretations.

Actually, my DH and I have had this discussion. If someone asks him for money or a meal, he gives it - no questions asked, no hesitation (because of Matthew 5:42). If I'm by myself at night or have my niece(s) in the car with me, I don't. I understand his need to follow the Bible as he understands it, he understands my concerns about personal safety. In Mrs. Reber's case, it's just literally too close to home and I highly recommend (again) referring them to a shelter.

Mrs Reber, feel free to PM me with some info about where you are and I can track down some homeless services for you to refer these people to.

[jmarie]

How so? It sounds to me like he said to feed the hungry, too.

YOU asked, as if you thought it wasn't in the Bible......I explained.... No-Win Situation, here. I'm out!

[MrsReber]

Escher, I appreciate your thoughts, really. That's what I would probably tell anyone else in the same situation. However, it's a bit different when they are at my steps and I know that DH has spoken with them and given to them in the past. Yes, his heart is in the right place, but the method is all wrong. He told me that he's going to speak to Ted (the man) and tell him not to come around at all unless he's home. I do keep the kids away from them, as the kids are my number one priority. Just to clarify, the problem I was having was that the kids were following me outside so I couldn't address them without the kids tagging along at my heels. They have figured out all of our locks and there's really no keeping them in the house, unfortunately. That's why I called DH for assistance.

I don't know if I can really classify them as homeless since Ted has family in the area and they do take him in sometimes. These two are very well known in the neighborhood. The police are familiar with them. I don't know what the problem is with our police, but they seem more interested in traffic violations than actual crime in our area, except when I tell them that people are doing 50 down my street. I'm not thrilled with them, but there are a few that do their job. When we've contacted them about other things, we get this attitude from them, as if there's nothing they can do about the problem.

Still no sign of the lovely couple. DH said after they left our house the other night, they went across the street to some other neighbors.

[stefania4]

Originally posted by jmarie


YOU asked, as if you thought it wasn't in the Bible......I explained.... No-Win Situation, here. I'm out! I knew full well it was in the Bible and nowhere in my post did I say it wasn't; I said I didn't see anything in there about being invited to decide for ourselves who really needed food and who didn't. I think you're being a little over-sensitive.

[jmarie]

Mrs. Reber. Good luck and God bless.

[funniegrrl]

MrsR, this isn't directed at you ... but I did have to say ...

Heavens, yes! Substance abuse, mental illness, hunger, and just being plain dirty and scary-lookin' ARE heinous crimes that should be punished immediately! Yes, call the police, get 'em locked up and keep 'em away from Decent Folk!

*sigh*

No where in this long discussion, with the arguing about the fine points of the Bible and what should be done based on what Jesus said, did I hear much about compassion. If you follow the letter of the law -- as you understand it -- from the Bible, yet you do it simply because It Says To Do Such-and-Such, then Jesus certainly wouldn't think much of you. I'm not religious, but sometimes I think I get the point of the New Testament a lot better than a lot of people who claim to be followers. When I read the description of the situation, I felt for MrsR and her difficult situation, but I also felt so sorry for the couple in question. To be trapped in a life like that ... and it's not just a matter of "Sober up" or "Get a job." The Christian -- the human thing to do is not to see what Rule the Bible lays out, but to love these people and care for them, even if you can't take care of them.

As to the practical matters at hand. Yes, the problems these people have -- especially given the length of time they've been living like this -- may well be intractable. I guarantee you that they already know the social services network in your area like the back of their hand, and probably largely refuse to participate. But, that doesn't mean they can't be encouraged to do so. If I were you, MrsR, I'd tell my husband to tell them NOT that they can't come around unless he's there, but that they can't come around at all any more. That your property is private property and that he's asking them not to tresspass any more. Be clear that up until now, they have essentially had a pass to come and go. He's given them food and they have been essentially welcome at your home. So, the rules are changing and they have to be told clearly. By saying they cannot come on your property at all, you are creating an enforceable rule. If there are contingencies (they can come if your husband is home) you present abiguity. With no contingencies, then you CAN call the police if they trespass. If they do come back (and they probably will, because remember, they are addicts and perhaps mentally ill), you can remind them of the no-tresspassing rule and ask them to leave. If they don't tell them you'll have to call the police if they don't. Then, do. Find out what services are available for them, tell your husband he can contribute to those services, and he can remind these people of them. You can be kind and caring and helpful, and still keep your peace of mind.

[jmarie]

Heavens, yes! Substance abuse, mental illness, hunger, and just being plain dirty and scary-lookin' ARE heinous crimes that should be punished immediately! Yes, call the police, get 'em locked up and keep 'em away from Decent Folk!

No one even implied this. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

She is afraid for her children and in today's climate with the kidnappings,and every thing else , I should think you would understand where she and everyone else were coming from.

But it made a good read!

:D

[stefania4]

Jmarie, we agree!

[newtricks]

"No one even implied this. "


Originally posted by jmarie
Or call the police. Being locked up must be something they are accustomed to and besides, once there, they are fed. So, maybe you would be doing them a favor.


Joyce, Maybe this is where she got the idea.

[MrsReber]

funniegirl- those boundaries were part of the problem, I think. They assumed DH was home because his truck was there. Unfortunately, at the time, he was on his motorcycle. He said yesterday that he'd tell them not to come unless they saw the truck. I told him the truck was there Sunday, which is why they came. They weren't looking for me, they were looking for him. I don't know how our other neighbors have handled the problem. I know the cops have been called about them every so often. I don't know the outcome of those events.

They do creep me out in a big way and I really wish they just wouldn't talk to me. It was creepy before we had kids- the woman tried to pick up DH one day while he was outside (which is actually kind of funny). He's just so much better at being direct and saying what's on his mind. No sugar coating with him so I'm kind of relying on him to fix this problem- perhaps more than I should.

I do agree that they are probably familiar with certain agencies, especially with as many times as they've been before the judge. I just don't know where you go from there.

When the woman told me she'd be put on parole on Tuesday (today) and she wouldn't be allowed to drink, she seemed afraid. I said "well, that's a great thing!" She said she didn't know what she'd do with herself. Many times, they walk by and say hi or mumble something and go on their way. I was not prepared for them to stop on Sunday. I was, at the time, running up the steps to get in the door.

[ellery]

I'm wary of adding more, in light of the fervent Biblical interpretations going on so far... ;)

I'm all about being helpful, helping your fellow man and having compassion. What I worry about, and call me mean or whatever, is when this stuff enters your home turf. I have a lot more compassion for my clients when they don't know where I live, what car I drive, what my kids look like, etc. I worry about your husband confronting this couple directly, for fear of their reactions, for fear of who they may blame, for fear of how they may or may not show their displeasure. This is why I had recommended the nonconfrontational approach of involving the authorities and blaming THEM (versus a decision that you made) for getting involved and drying up the food source. I HAVE in my past become the target of one my clients - not a very enjoyable experience - and I worry about you Mrs. Reber. If you're creeped out, then trust your gut and keep yourself and your family safe, regardless of whether or not it offends the principles of charity or whatever.

Just my two cents' worth (well, actually four cents at this point). ;)

Leah

[jmarie]

NEWTRICKS and funniegrrl
Do you just choose to be nasty or is this for a reason? Are you trying to say that by my post, that I was telling everyone to call the police anytime a poor person comes by, or they see someone who is different on the street? Lock them all up?

Do you realize just how absurd you are sounding? Is it better to attack me for saying what a lot of others have said. I have heard many people who were concerned about the poor on the street when it was real cold, how greatful they were when the police rounded them up and put them in the jail until the freeze was over because they had no place else to go and at least they were warm and had food while they were there. (That is what they do here when they find a homeless personin frigid weather)

Is it better to attack me for whatever reason that you have, rather than to offer Mrs. Reber suggestions?

You don't know me, but we do our part. I can flat guarantee you that we do far more to help the poor than most of you have and out of our own pockets! My husband do not rely on the government to do what we see is necessary. It comes out of our OWN pocket! Come to SW VA, I will be glad to walk you around.

But back to Mrs. Reber....I would like to see you at home with your two small children scared because this man who was abusive to his wife, right there, on the porch, wouldn't leave. Elizabeth Smart was abducted right out of her bedroom window....Jon` Benet Ramsey, same thing, The little girl down in Florida recently and my cousin in Florida who got away but not after becoming scarred for life. My cousin was abducted (this happened about 8 years ago) right out of her front yard.

No, but I know you. You would just invite them right in for a up of tea wouldn't you? Draw a warm bath? Maybe light some candles and then put them to sleep in your bed? Turn your back while they do awful things to your children? OH! That didn't happen? But what is tokeep it from happening?

If you are scared enough, you WILL call the police. And maybe...just maybe that won't be such a bad thing. You may continue with your snide tirade, but girls, I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD! Maybe when it happens to you, you'll get a grip. Until then, I feel sorry for you.

[Escher]

Serenity now!

[jmarie]

ESCHER!!!!!SHUT UP! ! !:p
Joyce

What burns me is that this is exactly the previling attitude that causes our children to be harmed. Look at news reports, almost daily, new children missing. And 9 times out of 10, it is the snotty people who will NEVER get their hands dirty, but criticize someone who does...for whatever reason!

SIMMER...SImmer...simmer....
I'm better.
Thanks for your voice of reason, Escher.

Life is a silly game...play on!

:D

[stefania4]

Joyce, please take a deep breath. You're making a lot of assumptions here - you don't know what anyone else on this board does or does not do to help others, so you can't truthfully say that you do more (or less) than anyone else.

And I believe you owe Mrs. Reber a huge apology.

[jmarie]

MRS. REBER, I am so sorry.