Pizza Disaster

[rinsav]

The other night, I tried to make homemade pizza for the first time and it was a distaster! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/frown.gif I made it using the recipe from CL's cooking class. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but the dough didn't cook well on the bottom and was very thick and chewy. We tried putting it back in the oven on the racks with nothing under it to get the bottom to cook through but it still tasted very funny. Any thoughts as to what I could have done wrong???? I'm new to cooking and was on such a good roll. This was my first bad meal. I'd like to try it again sometime and get it right. Please help! Thanks!

[Melman]

I haven't gotten up the nerve to try making pizza yet, but I watched my favorite FoodTV chef do a whole show on how to make a wonderful crust. Good Eats (Alton Brown) did a pizza crust show just a few weeks ago. The whole transcript is located on a Good Eats Fanpage. I'll include the link just in case it will work: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season3/PizzaTranscript.htm

There's probably more than you'll even want to know about making pizza crusts in there, but maybe there's something that will ring a bell as to why yours didn't turn out the way you wanted. He explains all kinds of things from the different kinds of flour, different yeasts, etc. GOOD LUCK!!

[rinsav]

Thanks so much to everyone for their suggestions. Gail, here are the answers to your questions. Maybe this will give everyone more of an insight as to what I did wrong.
-- I kneaded the dough by hand. I don't have a bread maker.
-- I let the dough sit for an hour as the recipe called for but, come to think of it, I noticed that it didn't quite double in volume. I'm not sure why.
-- I baked my pizza in a regular pizza pan. I'm about to show my cooking ignorance, but I don't even know what a stone is. I'm so embarrassed! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/redface.gif
I'm truly a beginner at cooking, but I am starting to really enjoy it! Thanks to all of you who are helping me more than you know it (I visit this BB several times a day!)

[Gail]

Okay. First things first.

Relax. There probably isn't one person here who made a perfect pizza the first time out. And you DON'T have to have any fancy equipment to do it.

I'm inclined to think what went wrong may be more than one thing. If your dough doesn't rise enough, you can come out with more of a doughy finished product which doesn't cook through. You need to let the dough rise someplace warm-- cold weather may impede the dough's rising. It is also possible that you used an improper water temperature when dissolving your yeast-- too hot, for example, can kill the yeast.

Insofar as baking goes, I've found that the pizza stone (or pizza brick) is a wonderful thing. Basically, it's a large, flat terra cotta tile in one of several shapes which sits on the rack of your oven. You heat the brick almost as hot as your oven will go, the idea being that the hot brick approximates those extreme temperatures of a brick oven or a professional pizza oven. Plopping a pizza dough down on a hot brick almost guarantees you a nice, crisp crust.
Here's a link to one such stone, just so you can see what we've been talking about. The paddle pictured, also a good tool to have either in wood or metal, is referred to as a pizza peel.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos/16136.6.6542793939343436614

Please do go back and run a search on some of our old discussions, particularly if you decide to buy a peel. There's a bit of a method or trick to using both items, which we've discussed pretty thoroughly.

Anyway, don't give up. Try the recipe again, letting your dough double in volume and trying to follow instructions as best you can. Or, if you want, somewhere I think I've posted what I consider a pretty fool-proof dough recipe (and I know others have posted their versions). Try and try again until you find what works for you. Homemade pizza is a wonderful (and fun) thing!

If you have any more questions, ask away!

[Leanne]

Just like some other people said - I know I've had problems not letting the dough cook enough b/4 putting on the toppings. & I wasn't even making the dough by hand - I just used pillsbury in a can!

[Gail]

Leanne,

I'd be interested in knowing what's going on, too. Maybe it's that darned old buttermilk of yours! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif In all seriousness, I'm just throwing out ideas here. And while the prebaking idea is interesting, I have to confess that I've never needed to do so in the slightest-- I just build the pizza atop the peel and shove the finished creation in the oven on the hot, hot stone. Pizzas come out well-cooked and properly crunchy. I do have a vague recollection of trying to build a pizza in a pan many years ago and coming out with that same uncooked crust you're both describing-- more than likely I also used a prepared crust.

Are you also using a pan or doing it on a stone? Using too much sauce will also yield a soggy crust, but I don't get the feeling the problem's soggy as much as just plain uncooked.

One other method about the pizza in a pan suggestion (by the way, we ARE talking about thin-crust pizza, yes?) Where are you guys putting the pan in the oven? Too-high placement could also cause a problem, like with pie crusts. Which reminds me that somewhere I've seen advertised a perforated pizza pan which could possibly solve the problem for pan enthusiasts.

I'd love to hear from someone out there successfully baking thin-crust pizzas in pans, rather than on a stone?

ANYBODY OUT THERE?? HELP US OUT!!

[This message has been edited by Gail (edited 02-14-2001).]

[Wendy w]

My first attempt at pizza was a disaster as well. I tried using a stone and it just didn't work.

Currently, I make dough in the machine and use one of those pizza pans that have the holes in the bottom.

I bake the dough for 3-5 minutes before adding toppings and it works great for me. I also roll it as thin as possible and puncture holes in the crust with a form as I hate thick crust.

After hearing the praises and hints on the bb for pizza stones, I want to try it again. However, I will borrow my sister's before I decide to buy one!

The secret is to keep trying! Don't give up rinsav!

[This message has been edited by Wendy w (edited 02-14-2001).]

[Leanne]

Ok - now I think I'm starting to sound like a bad cook - I'm not!! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif - Just not so good at anything that requires baking! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif
I usually cook thin crust on an aluminum pizza pan with holes in the bottom. I have a pizza crust - it just always seems to hard to cure & clean - so I've never used it. Oh well. Anyway - I don't make pizza with sauce - I layer fresh sliced tomatoes on the bottom & sprinkle on some herbs, maybe brush with olive oil. mmm...

I don't have problems now - I let it cook for about 2/3 of the suggested time & then add the topping to finsh it off. I look at it as giving me time to cut up the toppings while the crust cooks a little.

[Gail]

Originally posted by Leanne:
Ok - now I think I'm starting to sound like a bad cook... I have a pizza crust - it just always seems to hard to cure & clean...

Nah. We know you can cook.

On the other hand, we're wondering about your typing... http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif
---

OK. So we're getting a thumbs-up from two on the perforated pans basically? There's another out for you then, rinsav.

[Angelina]

Rinsav...I was wondering about the part where you said the dough didn't rise that much. How fresh is the yeast you used? Did you proof it?

On a different note, I have a pizza stone. SO darned heavy! Is there anyway to clean it?

Angela

[lorilei]

Originally posted by Angelina:
On a different note, I have a pizza stone. SO darned heavy! Is there anyway to clean it?
Angela

My preference for cleaning my stone is to run it under VERY hot water and scrape it with a (dare I admit?) Pampered Chef scraper.

Then I dry it thorougly. When my stone was newer, I'd take a paper towel and a bit of oil and oil the surface (just to keep it "seasoned"), but now that my stone is black and worn, I no longer do this.

[Marsha]

We usually use our sourdough starter for pizza but the rise time is quite long, so I found a food processor dough that is quite good and very quick: 3C bread flour, 1 pkg rapid rise yeast, 3/4 tsp salt, 2 Tbs oil, dried herbs/black pepper optional, 3/4 - 1 C water at 105-115 temp. Using the metal blades in your processor, process the flour, yeast, salt. Then add the oil, process and add the water slowly while the machine is running until a ball forms (you will use most of the water, maybe all - depends on the flour & the weather). Process it 60 seconds more (this kneads it). Remove from processor, shape into a ball, cover & let rest on a lightly floured surface for 10 minutes. Now you are ready to go - divide dough into 3 or 4 equal pieces; cover the ones you aren't working with, and roll out the one you are until it is quite thin. This dough is very elastic & it will snap back so roll it slightly larger than you want it to end up. We make a rectangular shape about the size of a sheet of paper & put 2 crusts on a jelly roll size pan (or cookie sheet with low sides). Sprinkle the sheets with cornmeal before putting the crusts down - the cornmeal keeps it from sticking. Then put your toppings on, pop into a 400 deg oven for 30 min or so (turn the cookie sheets and the crusts on the cookie sheets midway thru for even browning). One reason some crusts get soggy is the topping might have lots of water in it naturally (onions, mushrooms, green peppers, tomatoes) so I found slicing these items very thinly helps a lot - and if you don't build up the edge of the crust, the liquid can run off during the baking process (that's why you need a jelly roll pan). Don't put too much tomato paste or sauce on them either - less is more with pizza. Good luck!

[Beth]

I made heart shaped pizza for my sons tonight. Special request after doing it last year. See what you can get yourself into? http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/wink.gif

Marsha mentioned one thing I thought of...the toppings. I have found that too much, too cold or too wet can sog a pizza. I make pizza sausage with lean turkey and precook it so there is almost no fat, then freeze it. I found you have to thaw it out first.

Also, I give the top of the crust a light spray or brush of olive oil before puting any sauce on. I'm not sure where I read this or picked it up, but it seems to give a barrier for moisture and the amount it very, very little.

I also use a preheated stone at 450-500 degrees. Hotter is better. I have used a perforated pan, and it's okay. I prefer the stone, but a hot oven, dough that is risen and getting a feel for the toppings (even not too heavy on the cheese) will all make more difference than pan vs. stone.

Martha, I wound up away from home, so I made a sponge with the sourdough starter and added 1/2 tsp or so of yeast to it, then made the dough about a hour later. It didn't have as much sourdough flavor, but was good and rose beautifully. Just a suggestion for a compromise.

[michelern]

I haven't tried the CL recipe but let me tell you how my husband and I have done it. We throw all of the ingredients in our bread maker and make the dough....preheat the oven with our pizza stone in it....place the dough on the stone and cook the crust for a few minutes before placing all of the ingredients. (Maybe you are already doing all of the above. If so, sorry my advice won't be that helpful) The first time we cooked the crust it was soggy, that's why we started preheating the stone and cooking the crust for a few minutes. We think the pizza crust is better.

[MrsReber]

Michelern- that's exactly how I make my pizzas and they come out great every time. I completely agree on pre-baking the crust for a few minutes. It seems to get very soggy if you don't - especially in the middle of the pizza.

Don't give up, Rinsav!! It took me a few tries to get a crust that I liked and to perfect a baking method. If you do a search on the BB, we have had many discussions about pizza and pizza dough that you might find helpful!

[Karen M]

I just tried that pizza dough recipe myself on Sunday night. I also used a pizza stone and had no problem with cooking the crust. It did come out very thick and high though, so next time, I will try to stretch the dough more or else make 2 crusts from the recipe.

[Gail]

Rinsav,

While I haven't used that specific recipe, I have made a number of pizza crusts using a number of methods. Can you give us a little more insight here?

Did you knead by hand or machine?
Did you allow the dough to double in volume and did it meet specifications as indicated in the recipe?
How did you bake it? Pan? Pizza stone? Other method?
If you used a stone, did you preheat?

These are a few questions, but I'm sure there are other variables which might affect how your dough turns out. Give us a bit more info and maybe we can pinpoint what went wrong.

[SandyM]

I giggle over how everyone's procedure for making pizza is different! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/biggrin.gif

We preheat our stone (not a Pampered Chef stone, which I don't think you should preheat, but I'm not certain) for about 45 minutes at the highest temperature. I make the dough by hand (no bread machine yet), prepare the pizza on a semolina-covered peel, slide the piza onto the stone, and in 4-5 minutes it is done to perfection.

We've never had a soggy pizza. Generally the problems arise with the dough.

But I won't go off on my yeast failures......

[kwormann]

Our fav way is a recipe for wheat crust from The California Pizza Kitchen Cookbook, then we love to GRILL it (I believe from a CL recipe from way back). Indoor method is assembling it on a peel with corn meal then sliding it onto our preheated pizza stone http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif...but I highly recommend grilling it! It is so yummy!

[browneye]

I have a comment, and some questions... http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif
I love my pizza stone, and have had great luck on it, but before I purchased it, I used the perforated style pan, and had good luck with that as well. Also I read on another thread about using parchment under the pizza to facilitate getting it to the peel and then to the stone. I am going to try that as well, sometimes I "spill" my pizza and that is so disappointing..
Question: I am getting a new convection oven installed this morning, and I am wanting to bake pizza for dinner in it.. but I was wondering, do those of you who have convection oven use the standard bake "mode" or convection baking for pizza? Any advice would help..

[rinsav]

Angelina, I don't think my yeast is old because I just bought it last week (I guess you never know though, huh?). I'm not sure what you mean by "proofing it" (see, I'm showing my cooking ignorance again http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Gail, I think you may have a good point with using the improper water temperature. I'll have to take better note of that next time.

Thanks to everyone for their advice. I'm not going to give up and will try again. I won't let the pizza crust beat me! http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/biggrin.gif

[lorilei]

You know, the more I think about this... I always precook my crust (at about 425 for 10 minutes) -- I make thick-crust pizzas, and this assures me that the crust gets cooked through -- and it also sets up a moisture barrier so that I can add toppings to my heart's content.

Don't know if you can use this tidbit of advice, but it's worth a shot. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

[lindrusso]

Okay, I'll weigh-in on this pizza thing.

First - rinsav - proofing yeast is when you combine it with the warm water and let it sit for about 10 minutes. If the yeast is active, your mixture will begin to foam just a bit (more if you add a bit of sugar). If you proof each time, there will never be a question about whether the yeast is active or not (no foam, no good).

So far I have only made pizzas using pizza pans - and one of them is an old, dented, cheapo pan - but still makes great pizza! I shape my pizza directly on the pan, so I don't like the perforated pans - the dough squishes through the holes! My pizza pans are also darker than those aluminum pans - the darker pans will most likely help the crust get darker and crispier. I really didn't like those aluminum pans.

I use the CL recipe to make either one 14-inch pizza or two thinner 12-inch pizzas. I spray the pan with a bit of olive oil (I have a thing about cornmeal on the bottom of my bagels or pizza - YUCK!). As was mentioned before, I also spray the formed dough with a bit of oil.

In addition to the oil, you can also put down a thin layer of cheese (if you're doing a no sauce pizza with veggies that can be a bit watery) before the toppings to keep the crust from getting soggy.

I have never pre-baked, but this would probably be a good idea with pizzas with juicier toppings. Oh, and I always bake the pizzas on the lowest possible rack in the oven.

One of these days I'll buy a pizza stone, but so far my pans work just fine! Happy baking!

[JLS]

I have used that recipe to make dough for calzones and pizza. The last time I used it to make pizza: I used my martha stewart deep dish pizza pan and it turned out great !

I agree that you have to make sure your yeast is fresh (you can tell by: when it is done proofing it should be pretty fizzy.)

To let the dough rise I put it into a closet with a towel over the bowl, b/c it is usually warm and draft free.

[This message has been edited by JLS (edited 02-15-2001).]

[Karen M]

Here's a tip for anyone having problems getting their dough to rise.

Turn your oven on to 400 degrees for 60 seconds (no more, no less), then turn the oven off and pop in your bowl of dough.

This will create a nice warm, draft-free environment for your dough to rise. Works like a charm!

Good insurance in the winter!

[Roo]

Beth,
You said you made a sponge with your sourdough starter. What's a sponge and what do you use it for?

Thanks!