To add fuel to the fire in the milk debate

[LGBurns]

I found this article on the UC Davis Med Center Health Bulletin and thought y'all might be interested. I can vouch for the authority of the author 'cuz it's my sister (the often-quoted dietician sister that is) http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif.

Here's the link to the page: http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/health_tip/knctbsb.html

[Norma]

LGBurns, this link doesn't work.

[JennyLiz]

LGBurns-
I got the link to work and read the article. With two small children, I found it helpful to have specific info about milk consumption and calcium. Thanks! JennyLiz

[makedah]

I don't know about a milk debate, but speaking as a person whose mother tried to force her to drink that yucky milk...

I firmly believe that the dairy industry has a big hand in the government's recommendations for calcium. I was reading that in England, their recommended values are far less -- something like 300 mg less for adult women. Even if we buy the government's recommendations, why is it so much harder to find tips for how much broccoli, collard greens or almonds we should eat (or sneak to kids) to get that amount?

I'm still waiting for the experts to acknowledge the MILLIONS of people who are lactose-intolerant (I forget the exact numbers, but 70-95 percent of blacks, East Aisans and Native Americans are lactose intolerant, as opposed to 15 percent of whites) and give us better information on non-dairy sources of calcium -- including giving us an alternate food pyramid. As it stands, the only place I can get really good info on non-dairy sources of calcium are the vegan websites!

[This message has been edited by makedah (edited 03-22-2001).]

[funnybone]

My 9 year old son lives on dairy products. He only likes to drink milk and eat cheese sandwiches, or cheese pizza, and yogurt. Every other food group is a minimun for him. I know this is not the best thing for him, but he hasn't been sick (not even a cold) since he was a baby, and is the tallest (and the youngest) in his class. Go figure.

[Leslie w]

I just took my 20 month old to the pediatrican yesterday and she only weights 19 pounds (31 inches) which makes her at the bottom 10 percentile. Her doctor told me she needs to consume more milk products so I've been pushing the milk, yogurt and cheese. I'm not a big fan of milk but if it's going to make her grow I have no choice. I buy the organic, hormone free milk at Stews.

BTW I asked about soy milk and he said he wants her to have whole milk, nothing low fat. She needs the extra calories from the fat and it's important for proper nerve development.


[This message has been edited by Leslie w (edited 03-22-2001).]

[Kristilyn1]

I've read an article recently that led me to believe that the 300 mg. only refers to whole milk--that skim milk may only have about 100 mg. per cup. Since all we drink is skim--I've been operating off of those numbers. Anyone know if this is true?

I think people are either going to drink milk or they are not and nothing that is said will change that. As far as lactose intolerance--my doctor told me (and I've heard this other places) that actual true lactose intolerance is pretty rare--I can't remember what he claimed the culprit is--but there it is, another opinion out there.

Kristi

[Kristilyn1]

I forgot to mention, that we all need to remember that there are many authorities out there on whether milk is a necessary part of a human's diet or not. While I agree with the school of thought that it is good for you (because I like milk) there is certainly just as much evidence pointing the other way--being touted by people who are educated and that both of these schools of thought are merely theories and all we can do is get as much information as we can and make our own decisions.

Kristi

[laughsandlaughs]

Leslie, If you check out the various soy milks on the shelves you'll find that some aren't lowfat...also, don't worry too much about your daughter...you can't make her body grow faster...when I was in the 4th grade (age 9) I only weighed 45lbs....that's almost off the charts. In 7th grade I was one of the three smallest girls, 8th grade I "sprouted" and grew to a healthy 5'8, 120 lbs. Her body will catch up, it doesn't mean she's underfed. http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/smile.gif

[Marcie]

I can't help but weigh in on this subject, too. Leslie, I second laughsandlaughs about the growth thing. Your daughter's body knows what it's doing, and as long as you're providing a generally healthy diet and environment overall, she'll thrive. My son has always been in the lowest 5th percentile. The point is, he's ALWAYS in that percentile - meaning he's growing right along with the chart, just the low end of it. Also, he's allergic to dairy products, so rice and soy milks are great for him as a concentrated source of calcium. There are lots of other ways to get enough fat into your child's diet, too. Egg yolks, meat products, olive and veggie oil, nuts and nut spreads are excellent. Mine particularly likes almond butter - both calcium and fat in it. If your kid likes and tolerates dairy products, fine. If not, please believe that there are other alternatives, even if your pediatrician is a big dairy fan.

[makedah]

Kristi -- I don't know whether not my lactose intolerance is "true" -- however your doc would categorize that -- but I challenge him to spend the day with me after I've consumed mass quantities of ice cream (more than a cup) and lasagna with ricotta. Better yet, spend the day with me, my mother, my father and my sister after said diet. I think that after suffering that attack to his sensibilities he'd reconsider!!! Just tell him to plan on using the bathroom at the convenience store down the street, if you know what I mean... http://www.cookinglight.com/bbs/biggrin.gif

[LRuben]

Leslie W.---Don't forget about pudding (I make instant with whole milk for my scrawny but beautiful and brilliant daughter.)Raisins are also good and does your daughter do peanut butter yet?It's got a lot of calories but still healthy. My youngest just turned 3 and barely tips the scales at 26 pounds. About a year ago aour pediatrician suggested a high fat diet for her but said not to push it since she's always been small and her growth pattern has always been consistant.Good Luck!--Lisa

[AD]

Kristi, skim milk has the same amount (if not more) calcium than whole. Just look at the label! Unfortunately, I don't do well with dairy but not due to lactose intolerance. It just makes me nauseated and bloated.

Anyway, there is something I would like to ask about milk. I know this may be an "uncomfortable" topic, but I would be interested to know if there is some link between dairy and constipation. I've heard that can be a big problem with dairy.

[LRuben]

AD, yes you are right about the link between dairy and constipation. My son has been having a problem with constipation and my trusty pediatritian gave me some info about it. Did you know that cooked carrots cause problems with constipation? I was surprised at that one I mean, CARROTS!! Whodathunkit!?--Lisa
Just checked the info from the doc. and not just milk but also cheese, yogurt and icecream can cause a problem

[This message has been edited by LRuben (edited 03-23-2001).]

[Leslie w]

I'm not too worried about my daughter yet because although she's very small she is growing and gaining weight. Just not as much a month as some kids. She was only 4 1/2 lbs at birth and her older sister, who's almost 3, only weights about 23 lbs. I just have small babies I guess. My husband and I are of average height but on the thin side. Thanks for the tips everyone, unfortunately right now she's going through a picky eater stage and the things she use to love she's been refusing to eat.

BTW cheese will bind you up BIG TIME!!

[Kristilyn1]

I certainly wasn't trying to say that people don't have issues with dairy (and I don't think my doctor was either). Just that often it is misdiagnosed as lactose intolerance. My sister can't eat dairy, but she is not lactose intolerant. My mother in law thought she was lactose intolerant and it actually ended up being a very nasty bacterial stomach "thing" that she had from the time she was a little girl until they treated it with a super dose of antibiotics over a several month period.

I'm lucky in the sense that I can pretty much eat and drink anything with little or no ill effect--but I am often struck that as a nation--we have some pretty serious stomach issues and while the cure is to not eat the foods that upset our stomachs--we take pills so we can eat the foods our bodies don't want us to. Anyone else struck by that? It's an interesting problem and one that I am always curious to hear more about--from any source.

Kristi

[makedah]

Originally posted by Kristilyn1:
I am often struck that as a nation--we have some pretty serious stomach issues and while the cure is to not eat the foods that upset our stomachs--we take pills so we can eat the foods our bodies don't want us to. Anyone else struck by that?

Good point. I think about all the heartburn/diarrhea/gas ads there are on daytime television. And all the tummy products that crowd my parents medicine cabinets -- and for a while, mine!

My sister and I inherited weak tummies from my father, who would just CHUG Pepto in the mornings when we were growing up. For many years I would have diarrhea just about EVERY MORNING. I asked the doctors about it and they would just shrug. Some of it is how some people's bodies respond to stress. Some people get headaches, I get a tummyache. But once I stopped living on frozen pizza and McMeals, and stopped starving until 3 and gorging until 10, a lot of those problems went away. (And once my father stopped drinking alcohol and started eating better, he also stopped chugging the Pepto.) And sure enough, when I eat too much grease in one day, I'm in misery the next.

The reason: it is likely that lots of people don't make the connection between what they're eating and how their tummies feel. I know I didn't back when I was eating hamburger 5 nights a week and getting sick 5 mornings a week.

[AD]

The problem is referred to as Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). It's one thing that has turned me on to Cooking Light (recipes more friendly to my stomach). IBS usually involves hypersensitivity, meaning we just feel strongly (through pain, pressure or spasm) the normal workings of our digestive system. It's an unusually common medical issue, but people usually don't talk about it much. Many of us sufferers wish they would. It might make a good CL article or a good TV news story, health program or talk show.

I could post volumes about it, but I do enough of that at the bulletin board at www.ibsgroup.org. (http://www.ibsgroup.org.) I guess this isn't really the right place to discuss it. I'll just say that dairy products are often avoided by most people with IBS.

[makedah]

Whoa, AD. Thanks for the advice and the link. Some answers may be around the bend...