Governor of New Jersey Resigns

[Jessica]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4925008.html

[gertdog]

DH works in a policy-wonk office and he called me in the early afternoon to tell me. Wow, just wow. That speech was... unexpected.

[leightx]

Wow.

I wonder what would have happened had his affair been with a woman...

[Escher]

What a disgusting cretin.

Let's see:

Commits adultery.
Hypocritical stance on homosexual issues.
Lies to about everyone to cover it up.
Appoints lover to 100k/yr security czar position.
Accussed of harassing employee.
Allegedly tries to divert public money to pay off said employee.
Doesn't come clean until lawsuit is pending.
Will not resign until date for special election passes.
Tries to use his coming out as protection for all of the above.

Filthy scumbag.

[gertdog]

Originally posted by leightx
Wow.

I wonder what would have happened had his affair been with a woman...

It's interesting to think about. It seems pretty clear that the timing of the revelation and resignation is due to his former lover's plan to file some sort of harrassment or sexual impropriety suit, and there are also rumors flying that the lover had been trying to extort money. Add to that the fact that the guy had been employed by the state government and, later, friends of the governor. So- if all of the circumstances had been the same (pending lawsuit, blackmail, giving government jobs to a lover) I think perhaps the end result might have been the same for the governor. He's already spent so much political capital on state-level scandals that this likely would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

In any case, I think we'll know more once this lawsuit is filed.

DH's boss's wife works for the governor, and the director of media relations in DH's office also worked in the governor's PR office. Apparently he had been widely rumored to be gay before he even took office- it's the affair and the resignation that people are finding shocking.

[lindrusso]

Aw, come on Escher, hedging as usual. For once would you just tell us how you really feel? ;)

[greysangel]

Wow.

I wonder what would have happened had his affair been with a woman...
**********************
Probably the same ... if he had hired her to do a job she wasn't qualified to do :o It's not *just* the affair, or the homosexuality in this whole thing. I think it's too bad...I thought he was doing an ok job :( (though I admitedly don't follow local politics too closely) I hope he's happy and that the entire family gets through it without too much media drama.

JeAnne

[bobmark226]

Originally posted by leightx
I wonder what would have happened had his affair been with a woman...

Presumably as responsibly as he did: pre-emptively, truthfully and with integrity, something we're not necessarily used to from politicians. The homosexuality is not really the issue here, though it's certainly likely to be what's going to be bandied about a great deal.

BOB

[mlr73]

I know the guy is married and I did see his wife standing next to him as he delivered his speech. I wonder what will happen now with his marriage? I don't know if I could have been as strong as his wife looked standing next to him. Wow! is right. It is almost like a movie or tv show plot.

I agree with Bob in that the homosexuality isn't really the issue, well it shouldn't be at least. I think it might turn into an (or even THE) issue, though unfortunately.

[bobmark226]

Originally posted by gertdog
Apparently he had been widely rumored to be gay before he even took office- it's the affair and the resignation that people are finding shocking.

It's been fodder within the community for a while. What's most remarkable about that aspect is that those close to him, bodyguards, etc., had to be aware and that he's respected enough that a lid was kept on it. There are several stories about attendance at a dance club and the like that I don't know that truth of that circulated.

BOB

[Escher]

Originally posted by bobmark226
The homosexuality is not really the issue here, though it's certainly likely to be what's going to be bandied about a great deal.
BOB

Perhaps. But those who focus on that are playing into his hand. Some will try to protect this scumbag because he came out. He is using his coming out as a shield.... IE, anyone who attacks him is a homophobe.

The epitome of corruption. Coming out is a red herring.

[Escher]

Originally posted by bobmark226
Presumably as responsibly as he did: pre-emptively, truthfully and with integrity,
BOB


BWAH, HAH, HAH, HAH.

Yeah, I'm sure the Fed investigation and imminent lawsuit had nothing to do with him "pre-emptively" resigning....

Seriously, you believe he wouldn't have kept living such a duplicitous life if it werent' for the impending legal actions?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[bobmark226]

Originally posted by Escher


Perhaps. But those who focus on that are playing into his hand. Some will try to protect this scumbag because he came out. He is using his coming out as a shield.... IE, anyone who attacks him is a homophobe.

The epitome of corruption. Coming out is a red herring.

I think not. It was simply, as I said, pre-emptive, because it was about to happen.

McGreevey is well-liked within the state and has done a credible job. I think your labelling him as a scumbag without knowing the facts of the matter yet says more about you than it does about him.

BOB

[wallycat]

This just goes to show the value of marriage, no? (I mean in a legal way)....

[gertdog]

Originally posted by Escher


Perhaps. But those who focus on that are playing into his hand. Some will try to protect this scumbag because he came out. He is using his coming out as a shield.... IE, anyone who attacks him is a homophobe.

The epitome of corruption. Coming out is a red herring.

He came out, but I think it remains to be seen if he uses this as a "shield". Honestly, I'm not sure what his other options were at this point. Deny the affair, which would have been a lie? (Obviously, one option would have been to acknowledge his sexuality long ago, but that opportunity is long since gone). Personally, I though his speech was pretty blunt and brave. And pre-emptive, yes.

[Escher]

Originally posted by bobmark226


I think not. It was simply, as I said, pre-emptive, because it was about to happen.

McGreevey is well-liked within the state and has done a credible job. I think your labelling him as a scumbag without knowing the facts of the matter yet says more about you than it does about him.

BOB

Facts? Which of my above facts was inaccurate?
exactly how was his lover qualified to be the security czar?
Did he, or did he not commit adultery?
was the Fed investigation for corruption just a figment of my imagination?

Just because he's gay is no reason to defend him, bobmark226....

[bobmark226]

Originally posted by Escher
Just because he's gay is no reason to defend him, bobmark226....

Boy, are you off base here. Time to stop seeing fags behind every tree, fella. I would have had the same response had Clinton or the Governor of Connecticut had been as forthcoming when their scandals first hit the news. It has to do with character, not where he puts his equipment.

As to everything else, why don't you wait and see before making judgements, even though you might prove to be right?

BOB

[tamawrite]

Originally posted by Escher


Perhaps. But those who focus on that are playing into his hand. Some will try to protect this scumbag because he came out. He is using his coming out as a shield.... IE, anyone who attacks him is a homophobe.

The epitome of corruption. Coming out is a red herring.

Agreed.

I think his coming out will bring support &/or decrease disapproval from those who would otherwise be strongly critical of his actions (here I mean more than simply the affair.)

I don't think many will use this as a weapon against homosexuals. Most people are smart enough to realize that even if they do believe homosexuals are morally corrupt in many ways, they should not bandy about this view because of the personal, professional, and political consequences.

(Have we become homophobic-phobic?)

[leightx]

I seriously doubt he's using his coming out to divert attention from all of his other problems - I'm pretty sure the guys knows the sh*t is about to hit the fan, and he's (attempting) to beat everyone to the punch.

I have a feeling that the guy he had the affair with was probably trying to exhort money - thinking he'd really be dropping a bombshell by "officially" outing the governer. Not saying it wouldn't have happened that way had the affair been with a woman (although it wouldn't have had the same shock value, sadly enough).

I'm really just wondering if the guy would have resigned had it been with a woman. Of course it wouldn't have been any less wrong (not only the affair, but the questionable hiring practices). But we have even known about it at all?? We will of course never know - just interesting to ponder...

[bobmark226]

Originally posted by tamawrite

I think his coming out will bring support &/or decrease disapproval from those who would otherwise be strongly critical of his actions (here I mean more than simply the affair.)



Oh, so you think we all stick up for each other and are totally lacking in honesty or the ability to judge right or wrong?

Not me, that's for sure, and not a single soul I've spoken to, gay or otherwise.

As I already said, no judgements until I see all the facts.

BOB

[Escher]

Originally posted by bobmark226
As I already said, no judgements until I see all the facts.
BOB

Read: Ignore what he has already admitted, don't make judgements about what we know at this time.

[Escher]

To be clear, I don't think he's coming out as a smokescreen half as much as the fact that he came out will be used by others as such.

[leightx]

Originally posted by Escher


Perhaps. But those who focus on that are playing into his hand. Some will try to protect this scumbag because he came out. He is using his coming out as a shield.... IE, anyone who attacks him is a homophobe.



I seriously doubt this. Do you actually think that the guy thinks he has any defense, and his homosexuality is a shield?? And that John Q. Public will overlook the affair, the questionable hiring practices, because he is gay? :confused: I fail to see the logic there. People are generally labeled as homophobes b/c they attack homosexuals for being gay.

I have a feeling that he was simply coming clean, and admitting his sexual orientation happened to be a big part of that.

[tamawrite]

Originally posted by bobmark226


Oh, so you think we all stick up for each other and are totally lacking in honesty or the ability to judge right or wrong?

Not me, that's for sure, and not a single soul I've spoken to, gay or otherwise.

As I already said, no judgements until I see all the facts.

BOB

LOL, Bob. I neither said nor meant that.

"Those" (as in, "those who would otherwise strongly criticize") in no way specifies homosexuals or their sympathizers. I am not attacking you or any other gay person.

My intent was to point out that, by virtue of being gay, he may not recieve the political flaming that a straight affair and resignation under the same surrounding legal circumstances might incur.

Many Americans decide it's too personally, professionally, legally, or politically dangerous to "attack" a homosexual's (or black's, or Hispanic's, or woman's) behavior for fear of discrimitation accusations.

[Escher]

Originally posted by leightx


I seriously doubt this. Do you actually think that the guy thinks he has any defense, and his homosexuality is a shield?? And that John Q. Public will overlook the affair, the questionable hiring practices, because he is gay? :confused: I fail to see the logic there. People are generally labeled as homophobes b/c they attack homosexuals for being gay.

I have a feeling that he was simply coming clean, and admitting his sexual orientation happened to be a big part of that.

Yeah, on one hand I agree with you, and on the other, I read your first post in this thread, and I wonder.....

[leightx]

Originally posted by Escher


Yeah, on one hand I agree with you, and on the other, I read your first post in this thread, and I wonder.....

See my take on that a few posts up - it got lost amid all of the "homosexaul cover-up" posts. ;)

[bobmark226]

Because I obviously don't have nearly as much inside information as some of the others here seem to have, excepting for common gossip, I'll have to sit this out.

On a light note, though, I laughed when I passed a bar that had a sign in the window that said "McGreevey is McGroovy." It can't be long before the tee shirts are out.

BOB

[beckms]

Originally posted by wallycat
This just goes to show the value of marriage, no? (I mean in a legal way)....

What the heck does that mean? Explain, please!

[wallycat]

I mean that a marital union should be based on love...no matter the sexual orientation.

If this guy could "get married" and know full well it was a sham (both times), why isn't it alright for people who REALLY care about each other have the legal rights!

[beckms]

Originally posted by wallycat
I mean that a marital union should be based on love...no matter the sexual orientation.

If this guy could "get married" and know full well it was a sham (both times), why isn't it alright for people who REALLY care about each other have the legal rights!

Whew! I was hoping that's what you meant. :cool:

[Escher]

Originally posted by wallycat
I mean that a marital union should be based on love...no matter the sexual orientation.

If this guy could "get married" and know full well it was a sham (both times), why isn't it alright for people who REALLY care about each other have the legal rights!

So, you are all in favor of legalising parent/child marriages, eh?

[wallycat]

I don't think a parent would give up the tax break to fall into a higher tax bracket :p :p ;)

[jmarie]

Rush was eloquent on this.

RUSH: Poor old Jim McGreevey, the governor of New Jersey. So we have the red states in this country, have the blue states, and now we've got a pink state. I just have to tell you something. Who really cares if he is gay? What a slap in the face to the gay community. That's not what this is about. Everybody is talking about how he's the most powerful gay politician in America. This is a slap at the gay community if you ask me, suggesting that he's resigning because he's gay. Because he's not resigning because he's gay, and he's not resigning because he had a gay affair, he's not resigning because of that. There are other things to come out about that. I mean, that may be a part of it.

But who cares if Jim McGreevey is gay? Particularly in New Jersey and particularly in New York? And in New Jersey it has been known for a long time that Jim McGreevey -- it's been rumored for a long time. I was doing some research last night, went back on the Internet and newspapers. For two years in New Jersey they have been, you know, sputtering about this or something like it. And the question in parts of New Jersey today is who didn't know that he was gay? But before we get into the real story here is, the politics of it, and I'll tell you what the real scandal is and what it's going to be, depending what else we learn. The real scandal is that he hired his aide, Golan Cipel, to be a homeland security director of some kind at $110,000 a year. The man had zero experience, none whatsoever. This is analogous to if Bill Clinton had put Monica Lewinsky on the Secret Service detail.

I mean, it's just highly irresponsible. And I'll tell you, well, I'm going to get into the politics of this in just a moment. But he's not resigning because of -- he has been forced out by the same people that forced out Bob Torricelli because this is about power, and he's now vulnerable. And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it is the New Jersey Democratic bosses who actually sped this up, make it happen now, far enough away from the New Jersey gubernatorial election to keep the state in Democrat hands.

Keep your eye on the name Jon Corzine, the senator from New Jersey. He is a likely replacement for McGreevey on the ballot when the campaign gins up next year. But I want to tell you all something. I want to share something with you here and I want to be very up front and frank with you. I was telling Mr. Snerdley this morning, it was I guess 2:40 yesterday afternoon when I first saw that McGreevey was resigning and that's all I saw and that's all I knew. And at that point I didn't have any idea what it was about. I thought it was about the fund-raising scandal and the prostitutes and so forth that had been brewing around. And I thought he was resigning maybe to quell any controversy stemming from that.


It wasn't until later in the afternoon that I learned what we all know now, that he has come out, that he is a gay American. By the way, I want to announce my truth today, ladies and gentlemen, that is I am a football fan American. We're going to have these different kinds of Americans, I'm a football fan American, Jim McGreevey came out and says he's a gay American. And there are some today who are claiming that he's a hero, the media, particularly in the northeast. In fact, last night on WNBC Channel 4 in New York, some local politician said that he's the Jackie Robinson of gay politics, and there's another piece here in the LA Times -- not the LA Times, I forgot, so many things here, but referring to him as the Rosa Parks of gay politics. But when I saw what this was all about, I'll share something with you.

A year ago, I would have been poking fun, I would have been laughing along with everybody else about this, about the personal aspects, the personal impact. I would have been in here and I would have been trying to come up with the funniest things I could have thought to get in on the obvious fun of this. But that would have been a year ago.

Today, I have a different perspective on McGreevey. And as I was telling Mr. Snerdley early this morning, when I saw what actually happened here and I saw without listening. I didn't hear it at first, but I watched some of the press conference and we've got audio sound bites from it with his wife standing next to him, and knowing he's got two little girls, one of them is one year old. The first emotion I felt was sympathy. I felt sorry for the guy. Because he's been living a lie.

He's not been who Jim McGreevey really is. He's been living two lives and he's been lying about both sides. Well, I don't know lying about both sides, but he's been lying to somebody about who he is, and it's stressful. It's probably oriented in trying to make as many people happy as he could. That was probably his objective, and instead of doing that, he was denying who he really is to a lot of people in his life, and to a lot of people who voted for him. And whatever political intrigue is involved here, the thing I know is that Jim McGreevey personally as a human being has a real tough road to hoe. I don't care how he comes across on television. I'm sure that last night was very liberating for him. I mean, this is his first step, if you will, to being who he is and being open and honest with himself about who he is. It's no accident, ladies and gentlemen, that he used the word "truth" in describing something, "My truth is I'm a gay American." He's been denying who he is his. Well, I don't know for how long, but for much of his life, and it's difficult, it is hard, it is debilitating, it's false, it's phony, and it's unhealthy.

Whoever you are, you have to be who you are. And a lot of people are not able to be who they really are because they're consumed with trying to make other people happy or trying to make other people avoid pain so they take all of that on themselves. McGreevey was no doubt doing this, and there was something that was a catalyst for this. Whether it was his own decision to do this or whether it was external forces, which I happen to think that gets into the political intrigue, the simple fact of the matter is that something happened here to force him to face his reality, and he's doing it. Last night, I know his wife was standing side by side and I know his ex-wife, both of his wives are as supportive as they can be, publicly, but regardless just as a human being and as a man, this is devastating for Jim McGreevey. He may think at the moment that his career has got salvageable aspects to it, and it may. I'm not saying it doesn't. It probably does. But at this moment I don't care what public face he's putting on, he's devastated right now, and I can't help but just feel empathy and actual sympathy for him for all of this because it's not an easy thing to do. It's not a easy way to have lived, and it's a blessing to him that this has happened. For himself personally, for his life, for his future, this is a blessing that this has happened. There are going to be a lot of people that are going to try to join him and use him for their own gain. There will be a lot of people that will go against him to try to use him for their own gain, but in the middle of all that is Jim McGreevey who's got to live his life and try to find some sort of happiness and contentment in it and it is not going to be easy no matter what public face he puts forward.

So I'm just honest with you here. This would not have been my take a year ago and I'm glad that it is my take today, especially when you look at his two little girls. I mean, you cannot help but feel sorry for them as well, or have feelings for them. The youngest one is one-year-old, and this is something that they're going to have to now deal with because of his actions, and don't think that's not weighing on him, either. You know, for all of the political ramifications, for all of his career, the personal life aspects of this cannot be easy, but he's, for whatever reason, is here taking the first step toward setting it all straight. And I want to be one to wish him well in his personal quest here to make this a positive and liberating an event as it can be. We'll take a quick break and come back and get into all the other political intrigue surrounding this right after this.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT


RUSH: Sandy in Coral Springs, Florida, I'm glad you called. You're on Open Line Friday. Hello.

CALLER: Hello. How are you?

RUSH: I'm fine, thank you.

CALLER: I listen to your program. I often disagree. I'm a small business owner, so I'm conservative when it comes to fiscal matters, but I'm liberal when it comes to some of the social matters, so that's why we sometimes agree.

RUSH: Hm-hm.

CALLER: But I was happy to hear your take on the McGreevey situation, that you can empathize with the position he's in and at this point, you know, it does appear that there's other reasons besides his sexual tendencies or why he's resigning.

RUSH: Oh, there's no question that's true. I mean, as I said, I think it's a slap in the face to the gay community to say that's why he's quitting. Folks, he could have survived being gay and been reelected on it. He could have survived the affair. In New Jersey, there's no question he could have survived it. That's not what this is about.

Let's go ahead and get into the politics. I appreciate your call, Sandy, very much. My comments about McGreevey were man-to-man, person to person, human being to human being, and within the context of just humanity, I'm not talking about all these other ramifications. I don't know what plans he has, I don't know what political calculations figured into what he's doing. Well, I think I do. I don't mean in his case personally, I think I know what the political forces are that are working on him here, but just as a human being he can empathize because this is not the reason he's being forced out and he's come out now and said these things. The real scandal, at least on the information we have now is the utter lack of judgment in hiring his lover as a homeland security official who had no experience. And I'm going to tell you why this happened.

Jim McGreevey, because of his demons, whatever you want to call them, was living a lie. He was denying who he is to people, was denying who he is to himself, was trying to be all things to all people, trying to make other people happy. That is a recipe for disaster because it's not possible. One person cannot make any other or group of people happy, not genuinely. And if you try, you are subordinating yourself, you are denying your own happiness, you are denying your own identity. But once you start living a lie, everything that you do, or many things that you do, become lies and so he finds this guy over in Israel when he was on a trip over there, Golan Cipel, and has an affection for him and says I gotta bring you back and comes up with a way of doing it, which is another lie. And this is all, I guarantee you, the poor judgment here is the scandal. This man has now opened up the possibility of blackmail. The number $5 million is being tossed around. That he was in a blackmail before, there is a sexual harassment lawsuit that is ostensibly coming down the road. But you could have survived all that. It's the poor judgment, the glaringly poor judgment in putting somebody like this in charge of homeland security simply because he's your lover, you have an affection for him or whatever.

There's any number of other ways of doing this without compromising the security of the state of New Jersey or the security and sanctity of the office you hold, if he wanted to do it. But even doing that was a lie because he's married. So one lie begat another lie which begat another lie which leads to the scandals and which leads to the problems that he's in because in New Jersey, there are powerful people in the Democratic Party, and they found out about this I don't know when. Apparently this has not been a well kept secret and as he neared the point in time where he was going to be running for reelection the blackmail possibility is coming up, the vulnerability of the second most powerful governorship in the country, New Jersey, is up for grabs, and these guys are not going to lose it. The New Jersey Democrat bosses have vowed they're not going to lose it and McGreevey is expendable just as Torricelli was. Now, Torricelli was mired in scandal, we played the sound bites for you. He was deeply mired in scandal and he was down 15 points in the election. They simply told him you're out of the race. If you don't get out of the race, we're going to ruin you, we're going to destroy you. I'm sure the same thing was said to McGreevey one way or the other. And that's why I say he's liberated today.

End of transcript.

Joyce

[ChristieinMB]

Originally posted by bobmark226


It has to do with character, not where he puts his equipment.

BOB

Bob, it is his character that is being discussed. He has shown low character. In addition, when married men put their equipment places other then their wife that also reflects poor character. His is married, does that mean anything to you?
Others are simply pointing that out.
Christie

[MISSINDI]

I just feel bad for his family/kids ... dealing with just one facet of this (father is gay, father cheated on mother, father resigning from Governorship) would be a lot, but they got quite a handful all at once ...

[claire797]

Originally posted by MISSINDI
I just feel bad for his family/kids ... dealing with just one facet of this (father is gay, father cheated on mother, father resigning from Governorship) would be a lot, but they got quite a handful all at once ...


I agree. The sad thing is, infidelity is such common media fodder that we've become somewhat desensitized. In real life, affairs are a huge, sad, deal :(.

[jmarie]

The sad thing is, infidelity is such common media fodder that we've become somewhat desensitized. In real life, affairs are a huge, sad, deal

Ain't that the truth. His wife was very stoic in her appearance, though. I'm not sure if I could have even appreared onstage with him, not because I would have despised him or anything, but because I was so crushed. But, it could be that he saw this coming down the pike and had confessed to her long enough ago, that she was over the sting. It is sad for the family though.

And like Rush said. He did not come out early in life because he was trying to please someone else by denying who he was. Had he had the support and done this when he first realized, a lot of people, including himself, would sure have been spared a lot of pain. But then hindsight is 20/20 for all of us.

[Kayaksoup]

Originally posted by ChristieinMB


Bob, it is his character that is being discussed. He has shown low character. In addition, when married men put their equipment places other then their wife that also reflects poor character. His is married, does that mean anything to you?
Others are simply pointing that out.
Christie

I am sure BOB can take care of himself, but I would like to just highlight the fact that he was trying to make a point about where judgement should be made- on his moral character instead of his "gayness" ...

Having read the entire thread, that's what I got out of it, at least.

[Wendy w]

Originally posted by MISSINDI
I just feel bad for his family/kids ... dealing with just one facet of this (father is gay, father cheated on mother, father resigning from Governorship) would be a lot, but they got quite a handful all at once ...

Bingo. :(

[Kristilyn1]

Originally posted by bobmark226


Boy, are you off base here. Time to stop seeing fags behind every tree, fella. I would have had the same response had Clinton or the Governor of Connecticut had been as forthcoming when their scandals first hit the news. It has to do with character, not where he puts his equipment.

As to everything else, why don't you wait and see before making judgements, even though you might prove to be right?

BOB

I'm starting to think that we read a different press release. He stated that he was resigning because he had had an adulterous affair. You honestly think that he is resigning because he had an affair? I'm dumbfounded by your naivete. So all the other allegations are just coincidence? Even if the charges are all false and he knows it, wouldn't it be more likely that he was resigning to avoid the scandal in general? Which for the record, I personally wouldn't think less of him because of it. Not everyone has the stomach for a long, drawn out investigation of their personal and public life.

Personally, I agree with Escher that HE trotted out his sexuality to put a shield around his behavior, and I find that cowardly. Apparently it must be working as you seem to be accusing Escher of being some kind of homophobe.

Kristi

[MrsReber]

Originally posted by bobmark226


I think not. It was simply, as I said, pre-emptive, because it was about to happen.

McGreevey is well-liked within the state and has done a credible job. I think your labelling him as a scumbag without knowing the facts of the matter yet says more about you than it does about him.

BOB

Bob, sorry, but I don't think McGreevey is so well-liked within the state. I mean, he started off after the election with a wonderful trip to Ireland for all of his family- and, whoops, did I mention that the taxpayers paid for it? Yep, that's right.

I don't care that the man is gay. I do care that he hid it and lied about it. I do care about all the points Escher mentioned. I care about the fact that he has done a terrible job of managing the money. And I REALLY care that he's waiting it out and not resigning. The reasons, as I have seen, are many:

He's going to wait until the time for a special election has passed, thereby not allowing the people of the state to decide their own fate. He's taking it into his own hands that we really want the president of the state senate.

Should the president take over, he can write bills and pass them! Great! No checks and balances in place. Do we hold our breath and pray that he's a good guy? Do whatever you want with NJ- hey, we're already in so much debt, thanks to our great governor (I DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS MAN!) who borrows money in order to balance the budget. The state is so screwed.

Also, Kerry's camp gave our old governor a call and asked him not to resign until November 15th because they're afraid that people will not contribute to Kerry's campaign and he will lose some funding.

Personally, the above is reason enough for me to not vote for Kerry. He obviously cares more about himself than he does about the people of NJ. Let us suffer and have someone appointed to run our state because if McGreevey resigns prior to September 3rd, we'd actually be able to elect someone ourselves! Isn't that what democracy is all about?

God, I hate this state. I really do.

[MrsReber]

By the way, his first wife says she knew he was gay and that was not the reason for the divorce. No one is sure if his current wife knew or not. She's a tough lady, from what I've read. She grew up in the ironbound section of Newark, which is a far cry from suburbia.

Again, I don't care about him being gay. If anyone knows the Jersey Guys, I'm sure they've been having a field day with this. I left for a short vacation Wed night and came home to this on Sunday. He is known as Governor Pinocchio on a cerain radio show since the man has lied so often about so many things. Being gay is just one more thing that he lied about. An an affair is an affair is an affair. Sorry.

[gertdog]

Originally posted by MrsReber


He's going to wait until the time for a special election has passed, thereby not allowing the people of the state to decide their own fate. He's taking it into his own hands that we really want the president of the state senate.

Should the president take over, he can write bills and pass them! Great! No checks and balances in place. Do we hold our breath and pray that he's a good guy? Do whatever you want with NJ- hey, we're already in so much debt, thanks to our great governor (I DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS MAN!) who borrows money in order to balance the budget. The state is so screwed.

Also, Kerry's camp gave our old governor a call and asked him not to resign until November 15th because they're afraid that people will not contribute to Kerry's campaign and he will lose some funding.


Susan, where did you read the bit about Kerry asking McGreevey to wait until 11/15?

Though I'm fairly new to the state, it seems NJ has a history of poor governance. I don't think McGreevey's administration was the start of all our troubles here. I'm not saying he hasn't mucked things up in some areas, just that it's not as though all was peachy til he came to town.

What's troubling about the senate president becoming acting governor is that, the way NJ's constitution is written, the senate president is only acting governor as long as he remains senate president! This is weird in two ways. First, he holds dual offices. Second, if other members of the senate engineer a coup, they can elect a different president and, in effect, a different governor! How flawed is that??? Apparently this issue already came up once, when Whitman left office to join the Bush administration, but it hasn't been fixed.

On the other hand, the problem with the special elections is that there's no time for a primary, so the options offered to voters will be handpicked by the state parties, more or less- so voters still have less voice and less time to educate themselves about the options, and then are we stuck with some yahoo for four years instead of one? Or would there still be another election next year? It's a shame the scheduling of a special election has to be so rigid.

This all reminds me that I need to change my voter registration to my new address.

[MrsReber]

Stephanie, Saturday's press had the info about Kerry's camp calling McGreevey and asking him not to resign until 11/15. It wasn't Kerry himself. They're concerned about having no one to raise money for him in the state and the fact that the voters of NJ might be less likely to contribute to Kerry's campaign based on this news. That alone made me sick.

I was under the impression that if there was a special election, we'd still have an election in 2005, as scheduled. Is that not right? In my opinion, though, the president of the senate should not hold dual offices like that. He'd be in a position where he could really abuse his power. I actually didn't know that other part about what would happen if he were no longer senate president. At least if there's a special election, the people can decide. I agree, it's probably not enough time to get to know a candidate- however, that depends on the candidate. I had heard that McGreevey's opponent in the last election may run again in 2005 (I can't remember his name, though!)

Whitman wasn't all that bad, but I assume you've heard of Jim Florio? People really wanted him out of office, though I still believe McGreevey has done a worse job.

[gertdog]

Originally posted by MrsReber

I was under the impression that if there was a special election, we'd still have an election in 2005, as scheduled. Is that not right?

Whitman wasn't all that bad, but I assume you've heard of Jim Florio? People really wanted him out of office, though I still believe McGreevey has done a worse job.

You know, I think you're probably right, but I can't find info to verify it on the nj.gov website. I'll edit my post above to make that a question rather than a statement of fact!

I haven't heard anything good about any governor in the recent past, just that things get progressively worse around here.

Is Brett Schundler the candidate you're thinking of?

[LA98]

Another New Jerseyean checking in:

Agreed, that he's not well-liked or respected in the state. In addition to the Ireland trip, let's not forget the personal-use-of-state-helicopters scandal. He's basically had one problem or another since he took office, dealing with his character as often as his politics.

Agreed, that whether or not he's gay has nothing to do with anything. Pretty much all I care about the person who's spending my tax money and making the laws that govern the state I live in is the job that person is doing.

And finally, I do agree that the entire coming-out admission was to delect the media's and our attention away from what I personally think is his most offensive action: He appointed a person with absolutely no experience, a person who couldn't even obtain the proper clearance the job entails, to the Homeland Security position. After 9/11, after our state unwittingly produced terrorists, after we watched the devastation out of our windows instead of on the TV, it's unforgivable. We should stop debating the man's personal preferences and focus on what his true mistakes were......

[MrsReber]

LA98- I agree, let's focus on the real issues. We know there are still terrorists in the state. This guy should've resigned a long time ago.

Stephanie, I'm curious about the election now. I don't know how that would work.

Apparently his wife did know he was gay. I just had lunch with my mom. Her fiance works with people who work with McGreevey so he, too, knew beforehand that an announcement would be made last week. He said all the state troopers knew because they helped bring his wife in whenever he was out with a man! I can't verify any of that, but why hide it so much? Gay or not gay, I'm more interested in his ability to run the state.

Yes, Schundler is who I was thinking of. I think it was his views on firearms and abortion that really turned people off, but I wonder how different things would be now if he had won instead of McGreevey.

[Escher]

Originally posted by Kristilyn1

Personally, I agree with Escher that HE trotted out his sexuality to put a shield around his behavior, and I find that cowardly. Apparently it must be working as you seem to be accusing Escher of being some kind of homophobe.



Thank-you. We have one outwardly gay voice on the board, and it has already resorted to insinuations of homophobia against someone who dares criticize McGreevey.... kinda speaks for itself.

[Escher]

whoops, double post

[MrsReber]

Just for the record, folks, most people in NJ are not concerned with his coming out. We all know that it's a smoke screen for the stupid things he has done. Some of us are also wondering what other things are going to come to light now.

Still and all, I'm not too thrilled with him postponing his resignation for the sake of the democratic campaign.

[gertdog]

Did you see that McGreevey's approval rating has actually inched up in the past few days? Granted it is still below 50%, but that's interesting.

The "other man" Golan Cipel was also interviewed and maintains that he is not gay; his lawyer says that Cipel is the victim of sexual aggression and harrassment. That they never had intercourse. That "only time will tell" if a lawsuit is filed. And that he feels vindicated by the governor's public admission of his behavior, which was what he really wanted (let's remember that comment if it comes to a civil lawsuit). This last makes little sense to me- if you are the victim of unwanted sexual advances, aggression, and harrassment, why would you feel vindicated by the governor describing your activities as an adult consenual affair? At this point, my personal opinion is that Cipel is full of it- that there was a secret (or not-so-secret, apparently) affair between two people of unequal status- rarely a good idea!

Personally, I do not have a problem with where McGreevey stands on the political issues that matter to me. I'm not saying I agree with all of his positions, but I probably would have voted for him had I lived in the state in 2001 (sorry, Susan! :p) . However, if McGreevey violated any laws or engaged in political misconduct, I want to know about it, and that's what these investigations are supposed to be about.

[ChristieinMB]

Originally posted by Escher



Thank-you. We have one outwardly gay voice on the board, and it has already resorted to insinuations of homophobia against someone who dares criticize McGreevey.... kinda speaks for itself.

Do you notice that he has been strangely silent after all the lambasting last week? Seems he got too emotional and saw gay bashing behind every tree, I mean comment.
Christie

[greysangel]

Originally posted by ChristieinMB


Do you notice that he has been strangely silent after all the lambasting last week? Seems he got too emotional and saw gay bashing behind every tree, I mean comment.
Christie

Or maybe he's got better things to do like plan a NYC klatch for all us evil folk. :D

j

[bobmark226]

Originally posted by ChristieinMB
Do you notice that he has been strangely silent after all the lambasting last week? Seems he got too emotional and saw gay bashing behind every tree, I mean comment.
Christie

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4d636b3127cceb4d8abc2148a0000001610

Keep up the good work! You're making me more and more friends every day. :)

Bob

[MrsReber]

Originally posted by gertdog

Personally, I do not have a problem with where McGreevey stands on the political issues that matter to me. I'm not saying I agree with all of his positions, but I probably would have voted for him had I lived in the state in 2001 (sorry, Susan! :p) . However, if McGreevey violated any laws or engaged in political misconduct, I want to know about it, and that's what these investigations are supposed to be about.

It should be interesting! I know of a few crazy things he has done that make me question his integrity.

I agree with your comments on the "victim", by the way. We may never know the truth about that one.

[jmarie]

First of all greysangel:

I called BOB evil. YUP, I did it, it is there in black print for the world to see. But you must know this, it was not because of his sexual orientation. As a matter of fact, I did not even know about his sexual orientation until I read the Russian Looking For a Date thread and Bethany and Linda commented on it.

A better word, in my post,(at the time) should have been mean-spirited , but I was still stinging from the fact that he called me an idiot and I reacted with that "knee-jerk reaction" you all talk so much about. But, then again, I didn't know that it is fair game to call someone an idiot. And I didn't know that it was not "FAIR" to react. The "RULES" keep changing, on this board and it is difficult, in my old age, to keep up.

And BTW, j, I NEVER called YOU or anyone else, with the exception of BOB, (that day), EVIL. So where do you get the for all us evil folk. thing?

BOB talks a good talk about being malaigned and how everyone keeps beating the dead horse, but I am thinking that you aren't doing too bad a job,yourself, as his spokesperson.

So, j you go right on beating the dead horse. I guess BOB gets away with it when he uses a spokeperson? And j remember this, my mistake, which I corrected long before any of this took place, was to disagree with the original thread poster, in the original thread.....which BTW, wasn't even this thread.

And by the way, j, I apologized to BOB. He chose not to accept my apology and that is fine. But j, this was never about you. Remember that this was NEVER about you.
Now, y'all go have a nice day. :D

[Jessica]

Where is the original thread on this topic, Joyce?

[bobmark226]

Originally posted by jmarie

And by the way, j, I apologized to BOB. He chose not to accept my apology and that is fine. But j, this was never about you. Remember that this was NEVER about you.
Now, y'all go have a nice day. :D

He didn't choose to not do anything. He was working on a long, thoughtful reply, something about keeping things in proportion. Besides, he never really took such offense as you seem to think and pretty much forgets and moves on rather than obsessing or creating further hard feelings as some might choose to do.

It's only a message board!

Bob
(who wouldn't have even looked here had he not been sent a link.)

[greysangel]

For better or for worse, the more people talk, the more they reveal their true selves :D :D :D

Originally posted by jmarie
First of all greysangel:

I called BOB evil. YUP, I did it, it is there in black print for the world to see. But you must know this, it was not because of his sexual orientation. As a matter of fact, I did not even know about his sexual orientation until I read the Russian Looking For a Date thread and Bethany and Linda commented on it.

A better word, in my post,(at the time) should have been mean-spirited , but I was still stinging from the fact that he called me an idiot and I reacted with that "knee-jerk reaction" you all talk so much about. But, then again, I didn't know that it is fair game to call someone an idiot. And I didn't know that it was not "FAIR" to react. The "RULES" keep changing, on this board and it is difficult, in my old age, to keep up.

And BTW, j, I NEVER called YOU or anyone else, with the exception of BOB, (that day), EVIL. So where do you get the thing?

BOB talks a good talk about being malaigned and how everyone keeps beating the dead horse, but I am thinking that you aren't doing too bad a job,yourself, as his spokesperson.

So, j you go right on beating the dead horse. I guess BOB gets away with it when he uses a spokeperson? And j remember this, my mistake, which I corrected long before any of this took place, was to disagree with the original thread poster, in the original thread.....which BTW, wasn't even this thread.

And by the way, j, I apologized to BOB. He chose not to accept my apology and that is fine. But j, this was never about you. Remember that this was NEVER about you.
Now, y'all go have a nice day. :D

[jmarie]

Thank you, BOB and j ...(edited from original post, to say)
Go ahead and do your thing.

[BarbaraL]

Another NJ resident chiming in. I don't care that McGreevey's gay and whether or not he had an affair (with either gender) is between him and his wife. The issue is whether or not he hired a non-qualified person to an important (and well-paid) position -- I don't care if that "person" is his lover (either male or female), his nephew, his best friend or his campaign contributor. "Coming out" may be a bit of a smoke screen, but, then again, how can the issue of sexual orientation NOT come out if he's being accused of having an affair with a man?
By the way, I heard on the radio that a man has come forward claiming to have had an affair with McGreevey's alleged paramour, thus discrediting the guy's claim that he's not gay.

[BarbaraL]

Oops, double post.

[gertdog]

Originally posted by BarbaraL
Another NJ resident chiming in. I don't care that McGreevey's gay and whether or not he had an affair (with either gender) is between him and his wife. The issue is whether or not he hired a non-qualified person to an important (and well-paid) position -- I don't care if that "person" is his lover (either male or female), his nephew, his best friend or his campaign contributor. "Coming out" may be a bit of a smoke screen, but, then again, how can the issue of sexual orientation NOT come out if he's being accused of having an affair with a man?


Barbara, I agree. Newseek lists some of the people who offered to take the homeland security advisor position- including Louis Freeh!- who were turned down in favor of the completely inexperienced Cipel. That just seems inexcusable given the direct impact of 9/11 on the state of New Jersey.

I also agree that I don't know what other options he had- he's expecting a lawsuit alleging sexual harrassment of another man. His options are to deny everything (I'm not gay and didn't harrass him), confirm everything (I'm gay and I did harrass him), or to do what he did. I thought that part of his speech was heartfelt, and I would rather see him make an unequivocal statement of his sexuality than leave it unmentioned as if that was the shameful part.

Now- I do see how the speech in its entirety (I'm gay, I had an affair, I'm resigning) might be a useful way to divert attention from other issues (I used my position to get a job from my lover, I may or may not have been involved in any number of ethically questionable situations), and I hope it isn't effective as such.

[bobmark226]

As a matter of fact, I did not even know about his sexual orientation until I read the Russian Looking For a Date thread and Bethany and Linda commented on it.

Wait! There's a Russian looking for a date?

Let me go brush up on my piroshkis!

Bob

[greysangel]

Bob I think it was a Russian dial-a-bride or something :D :D

[Kristilyn1]

yes, a very unfortunate thread that was thankfully taken off I guess because of spam. After a number of people made disparaging comments about mail order brides.

Kristi

[Wendy w]

Originally posted by bobmark226


Wait! There's a Russian looking for a date?

Let me go brush up on my piroshkis!

Bob

Sorry you missed it Bob. ;) Any good recipes? ;)


And...I believe that we were being irreverent about spam not mailorder brides. ;)