Good News from the Bush Camp

[Jessica]

I hope his statement has a real effect on the campaign. It is not too late to move from attacks to the issues. Maybe Kerry will make a similar speech.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/4943265.html

[Grace]

I too am sick of the whole thing. It's nothing but deflection, deflection, deflection. I haven't been watching the news for the past two weeks because I can't stand to hear any more of it. I hope they all really do end all this nonsense, and it's not just more lip-service.

[BeachBum]

I will vote for Bush in this election, but I totally disagree with his statement and with the McCain/Feingold campaign finance reform bill. All it does is stifle free speech.

[Jessica]

How is it stifling free speech to ask for an end to the attack ads? No one is preventing groups from making/airing ads.

[mbrogier]

I saw a Bush ad last night. It said Kerry wants to reform the US's Intelligence services, but it goes on to point out all the times he was absent from the Intelligence Senate Meetings he was a member of. Not a single word of the ad had anything to say about what Bush would say or do. It may not be the same as attacking Kerry for deserving or not deserving medals, but it is still an attack. I would like to see ads that say what they're planning on doing. (Not that it really matters. They don't do what they say they're going to do.)I am so sick of all of this.

I watched The Godfather Part III last night. There was a good quote: "Politics and Crime are the same thing." :D

[MusicMom]

Originally posted by Jessica
How is it stifling free speech to ask for an end to the attack ads? No one is preventing groups from making/airing ads.

I think BeachBum is referring to this part of Bush's statement:

In Texas, Bush said, ``I don't think we ought to have 527s,'' a reference to the outside groups that have poured millions of dollars over the past year into attack ads. Bush himself has been a main target of ads costing some $60 million. Bush said all of the ads should be stopped.

It sounds like he'd like to get rid of all 527s and their ads. I don't think independent political groups or ads are nessarily a bad thing. The groups should be allowed to present a different perspective than we get from the two major parties. However, the negative ads are getting out of line and should be condemned by both candidates.

[Jessica]

Wow. When I posted this link it was a three-paragraph story that just mentioned the attack ads. Now it is whole long article.

I read the initial story as a request to end attacks and focus on issues. Perhaps that is not what Bush meant, but I would love to see the attack ads stop and the conversation refocused to current concerns and not Vietnam service.

[mbrogier]

This article from CNN says he wants the 527 ads to stop.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/23/bush.kerry/index.html

[blazedog]

Bush's statement is not a condemnation of attack ads but a statement against 527 ads in general. Not surprising since 527 money is the thing that has enabled the Democrats to remain competitive in terms of campaign finance since the Republicans still have way more funds coming from tradiitonal sources.

I would hope that there would be an end to attack ads and a return to discussion of the issues.

[Jessica]

Originally posted by blazedog
Bush's statement is not a condemnation of attack ads but a statement against 527 ads in general. Not surprising since 527 money is the thing that has enabled the Democrats to remain competitive in terms of campaign finance since the Republicans still have way more funds coming from tradiitonal sources.


I see that now that I have the whole story and not just the first AP run. Oh well. I still think it would be nice to get rid of attack ads, even if that wasn't what Bush meant.

[jmarie]

Bush asked Kerry all along to unite with him to denounce all of the 527 ads! Kerry wants his cake (Bush denouncing Swift Boat Veterans) and his icing too...moveon.org to keep on keeping on.

Kerry will NOT denounce the Moveon.org ads...just the swift boat ads because they are directed at him....Neither has the ability or right to tell either group to stop because part of the soft money pact is that neither candidate can have any contact with these fringe groups.

Remember, what is fair for the goose has to be fair for the gander. If moveon.org doesn't die, then the Swift Boat Veterans won't. But can you expcet them to? Kerry maligned all of the vets and these guys are mad! All's fair......

[blazedog]

I think the difference is that moveon ads are actually factually correct whereas the statements in the swift boat ads have been completely discredited by impartial sources - Washington Post etc.

If you have a specific moveon ad which you think is factually incorrect or a smear, please bring it to my attention.

I have no problem with political ads by anyone as long as they focus on the issue -- you can have an anti Kerry ad which actually factually focuses on those issues on which you are in disagreement and of course vice versa.

Swift boat ads pollute the environment.

[jmarie]

READ MY LIPS

NO candidate, for any reason can have any contact with any 527 groups. It is against the law! These SWIFT BOAT VETERANS believe they have an agenda with Kerry. It is not up to you or I or the Washington Post....None of us have walked in their shoes.


It's funny really....The Republicans have this one little 527. It's called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and it's not even the Republicans. There's one 527 that's working on the Republican side of the aisle in the presidential campaign.

Lo and behold, that little group has spent something like, what, $200,000 on their first ad and all hell is breaking loose. Finally, journalists have seen the problem in campaign finance reform. They didn't see the problem with MoveOn.org. They didn't see the problem with George Soros. They didn't see the problem with Americans Coming Together. They didn't see the problem with the Michael Moore movie. No, no, no, no, that's just fine, because they are exposing truths about George W. Bush.

But when Bush made his statement, he upped the ante....He asked Kerry to do the same....In essence, he said "All right, I'll denounce my guys but you've got to denounce Soros. You've got to denounce MoveOn.org and all that."

But this is NOT what you will hear. All you'll hear is "Bush says Kerry serves admirably and denounces the swift boat ad." That's all you're going to hear. You're not going to hear that Bush also challenged Kerry to get rid of his. You won't hear it. Bush has given them what they want, if they use it. He denounces the swift boats and, and he said Kerry served admirably. And so Kerry will be out there "I'm proud to say that George Bush supports my version of what happened, because he is a fellow veteran, and he knows. But I'm telling you what I still have questions about his missing in action from the National Guard. I think we need to get to the bottom of."

Thanks Rush....you make everything so clear.

[crlykat]

Speaking of facts, you all might find this site interesting--its FactCheck.org, a nonpartisan group that doesn't take money from anyone. Its purpose is to do fact checks into the claims politicians and their ilk make.
http://www.factcheck.org/default.aspx

[Kristilyn1]

Originally posted by blazedog
I think the difference is that moveon ads are actually factually correct whereas the statements in the swift boat ads have been completely discredited by impartial sources - Washington Post etc.



Did you ever wonder why the Washington Post didn't include actually talking to the swift boat guys? Yeah, that's MY idea of discrediting an entire organization. By the way, they have an answer to the Post's charges, but I guess the Post didn't want to share that with everyone and give us all a chance to make up our own minds. I have come to the conclusion that we will probably never get the real truth. But I do know, they all have the right to be heard.

Personally, I cannot understand why an ad pointing out someone's record, FACTUALLY is considered an attack. More like an unpalatable truth. Liberals want it all. The chance to discredit Conservatives at every turn, with an opportunity to be immune from it themselves. How nice and convenient. Harkin calling Cheney a coward, Moore's movie that hey, guess what! There are people discrediting that one all over the place! And that one wasn't just a 30 second ad, that was a movie!

Personally, I don't mind moveon.org or the swiftboats. Last time I checked we were all able to state our opinions freely.

Pssst., if you stop watching tv you wont' see the ads!!! Works beautifully! I just took a peek at moveon's site and if ever there was a collection of undocumented garbage......I won't try to debate the individual points as I won't convert anyone and no one will convert me.

Kristi

[MusicMom]

Originally posted by Kristilyn1
Did you ever wonder why the Washington Post didn't include actually talking to the swift boat guys? Yeah, that's MY idea of discrediting an entire organization. By the way, they have an answer to the Post's charges, but I guess the Post didn't want to share that with everyone and give us all a chance to make up our own minds. I have come to the conclusion that we will probably never get the real truth. But I do know, they all have the right to be heard.

I just have to respond to this accusation since I read the Washington Post every day. The Post went back to the original documentation for Kerry's medals to get the story about what actually happened- they even published a photo of the report. That report is a better source than anyone with personal agenda today. They did have some quotes in that article from the Swift Boat group members. A couple of days later the Post published a follow-up article with a headline that noted that there are distortions on both sides.

After reading the last few posts, I wonder if some people missed the point to this thread. Jessica wanted to express a desire for our political leaders to get away from attacks on personal history and toward a discussion of the important issues- the economy, the war, the environment, etc. How can we ask the powers to be to do that when we can't even have a civil conversation on our BB? It seems like every political thread ends up with some type of accusations against "liberals" or "conversatives" or the candidates- and sometimes even the posters.

Has anyone else noticed that it appear that politics is getting to be even more personal/emotional than religion? Has it always been this way?

[Kristilyn1]

Originally posted by MusicMom




After reading the last few posts, I wonder if some people missed the point to this thread. Jessica wanted to express a desire for our political leaders to get away from attacks on personal history and toward a discussion of the important issues- the economy, the war, the environment, etc. How can we ask the powers to be to do that when we can't even have a civil conversation on our BB? It seems like every political thread ends up with some type of accusations against "liberals" or "conversatives" or the candidates- and sometimes even the posters.

Has anyone else noticed that it appear that politics is getting to be even more personal/emotional than religion? Has it always been this way?

Not sure if you mean me, but I'll bite. I didn't miss the point of Jessica's post at all. I'm stating an opinion that I don't agree with the concept of banning these type of ads. If my argument seems partisan, let's keep in mind that the only group whining foul at this moment in time, is the Democratic Party. I have an opinion on that, it's a valid opinion, some people don't share it. As far as the Post, they refused to interview at the time of the article , any members of the swift boats group. Whether they included quotes from other times, maybe they did. But I believe if you are going to publish an article that is trying to completely discredit an entire organization you would responsibly try to get their side AT THE TIME in response to the exact materials you are publishing. In your mind it sounds like you've decided there isn't any merit to the swift boat veterans charges, but we all have a right and obligation to at least get both sides before we make our minds up for ourselves.

Kristi