Target Bans Salvation Army

[Kathy B]

Did anyone else hear about this? Apparently Target refuses to let the Salvation Army have bell-ringers outside of their stores this Holiday season as they say it violates their "No Soliciatation" policy. I know as a business they have that right, but I think it's a shame they are taking that stance.

Here is the article from the Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0410/05/a01-293907.htm).

[madpots]

I saw that and I won't be shopping at Target. Our paper listed an address for SA, so I am going to send them a check. That will be easier than fumbling to find a dollar each time. But then I will have to duck my head or look away when I pass a kettle!

[Jessica]

They made this announcement a while ago and it was big news here because Target is headquartered in Minneapolis. I don't have a problem with the decision but I can see how other people might disagree.

[Blissful_in_TX]

I’m not saying that it’s necessarily right or that I agree with their decision, but I do wonder why the Salvation Army should be allowed to be the exception when other not-for-profit charities are not given the same opportunities....especially since at their core the Salvation Army is an evangelical sect of the Christian church. Seems a little biased if they were the only exception.

[KimK]

I think it's fine Target is not allowing the Salvation Army to collect at their stores. I shop at other places who DO have SA bellringers, so it's not like there aren't plenty of other opportunities to donate to the SA if that's where I want to spend my donation dollars. In my opinion, Target is perfectly justified in making this decision.

I'm not a huge Target fan, but before writing them off so quickly, you might find out how they're helping out in other ways. They may be writing the SA a big check to help make up for the kettle losses. They don't advertise this publicly, but according to my sister-in-law, who is a former regional manager for several mid-west Target stores, all stores donate lots of money all year long to various local organizations.

[jellyben]

I understand their stance against solicitation, but they did allow a voter registration booth outside their store here over the summer. And those guys were more of a nuisance than any bell ringer I have ever seen. As far as the SA finding other places to ring their bell, apparently Target stores proved to be one of their most lucrative locations in years past.

[Chefzhat]

I don't think that Target is the only retailer that has stopped the bucket campaign. Seems like some other stores in our area don't allow it either. Meijers comes to mind right now, but I might be wrong on that.

I really don't care for the bellringer campaign myself. We make a yearly individual donation to SA, but I still always feel guilty walking by the bucket and not putting anything in.

I feel the same way about merchandise carts in the walkways of the mall - I'm there to shop in the stores, not be bothered by people trying to sell me heated beanbag neckrolls. I know they aren't charitable associations, but still.

Debie

[wallycat]

My biggest distaste was the LOUD ringing that hurt my ears. I donate and select my organizations so passing by never made me feel guilty...besides, my hands were busy plugging my ears so I couldn't dig into my purse for the money :o

[Robyn1007]

I think that if they have made a policy of no solicitation that they should include the SA in that. Why should SA be able to if they won't let the Scouts or local school or anyone else set up tables and such. I never saw any voter registration tables outside my Targets so maybe that was a decision by a local general manager and not the corporate office?

And Wallycat, I agree on the loud bell, something about the pitch just grates me the wrong way, especially if I have a headache!

Robyn

[KristiB]

I think Wal Mart did the same.

But I won't spend a penny at Wal Mart because I think they're evil.

As far as the bell ringers go-it doesn't bother me that they're not going to be there. I'm with Chefzhat

[KimK]

Oh, Debie, I HATE those mall cart shops, too! How many times in one trip do you have to tell the person with the neck things, the lotion or the newspaper that you don't want to try any of their stuff? I've thought seriously about complaining to Woodland management, especially about the people who sell those heated bean bag neck things. Drives me downright crazy!!

[Molli526]

I don't care. I agree with the others, I don't like being made to feel guilty b/c I don't give to the bucket. I have other charities I chose to give to year round.

[Chefzhat]

Originally posted by KimK
Oh, Debie, I HATE those mall cart shops, too! How many times in one trip do you have to tell the person with the neck things, the lotion or the newspaper that you don't want to try any of their stuff? I've thought seriously about complaining to Woodland management, especially about the people who sell those heated bean bag neck things. Drives me downright crazy!!

I know. Aren't they annoying?

[JenniferJJ]

I realize that as a business they can do anything they want, but I don't support their decision. Apparently the kettles at Target helped raise one of the larger amounts of money (as compared to other stores). And since our economy is not that great, I've read that more people are coming to the Salvation Army for help.

As far as feeling their customers did not want to be bothered, I have never been bothered if I didn't have change. The bell ringer just stands there, ringing away. If I don't have money, I usually look at them and smile (since I know they are out in the cold and ringing for a good cause) and get a smail back. This is different from all other groups that will approach you to sell.

In their "defense", Target reps said they donate millions to charities each year. I personally am not impressed by companies who donate money to charties. That is money that could either have been spent on the employees wages or to lower the price of the products. While that may not be a big deal in a store like Crate and Barrel or Nordstrums, the people who shop at Target are buying many items there (clothes, housewares, linens) because they cannot shop someplace else more expensive. They could use even cheaper prices.

As far as passing along the donated money along to the employees, I have previous experience in that. In my previous jobs in the auto industry, they donated millions to charity. Then a few weeks before Christmas, many people (including myself) got laid off. They were also asking for contributions to the employee Christmas food basket fund. It kind of seemed ironic that they were donated an incredible amount of money to the community and then didn't have enough money to keep their employees. I firmly believe that the best thing a for-profit organization can do for the community is provide jobs for the people.

Anyway, the kettles were a great way for them to "passively" help the poor. In all this, I can't see myself boycotting Target because I haven't shopped there that much anyway, so my decrease in money wouldn't be noticed.

[Robyn1007]

Jennifer,

If you feel so stongly about supporting the Salvation Army why don't you just send them a check for the amount you would have dropped in their kettle? Personally, I make my donations elsewhere and get frustrated when I try to walk by them and they ring harder or say something to try to make me feel guilty, they are not completely passive.

Robyn

[JenniferJJ]

Robyn,

I'd love to write the Salvation Army a check. I've been umemployed for much of this year so it just isn't possible. Sorry to hear about your negative experience. I guess I've just been fortunate to not have negative experiences while walking past without donating.

[Robyn1007]

Jennifer,

I completely understand your situation, I am under-employed (or under paid I should say) and my Christmas gifts to family this year will consist of the ornament tradition I took over from my passed grandmother and baked goods for a few friends. I am sorry if that came off wrong, I guess I misunderstood your postition. Good luck in finding employment!

Robyn

[JenniferJJ]

Hey Robyn,

Don't worry about it. I'm sure without knowing my situation I could have come across as one of the "all talk and no action folks".

As far as being underemployed/under paid, I completely understand. Even when I was employed, I was in your situation. At my last job, I was doing a job that wasn't very challenging, and the pay was okay. At my previous job, the job was challenging and the pay was not great. I know that if I could find a job that matched my education, experience and skills, my pay would be much better. Does this make sense?

Anyway, I had an interview for a job this past Tuesday - maybe it'll be the one.

And thanks for the idea about the ornaments

[Beth]

I sometimes found the bells annoying, especially if I was tired or had a headache, but in addition to any other holiday donating we would do, our sons would take pleasure in putting a dollar in the bucket as we went by. I also started making it a practice to give at least a dollar every time I went into Target and bought things for myself or those I knew. It as kind of a self-imposed tax, but it made me feel good that the more I bought, the more I gave. I went to Target today, and it didn't seem like Christmas without the bell ringing and the red pot.

I'm not sure why Target discontinueed the practice -- complaints? other groups pressing to get equal time? Or maybe it was a potntial conflict with the St. Jude's promotion Target is running this year. That's not saying no to everyone so much as making a different choice. I saw gift cards that would donate $5 to St. Jude's, but what if you don't have anyone you want to get a Target gift card? Then you don't give anything. I was also told that the Salvation Army funds stayed in the area and helped people in our own community. Not to take anything away from St. Jude's (I have given them money and collected for them when I was a kid), but that's a loss to our community. Target gives a lot to the community, so I can't get to upset with them, but it's a loss for those who need help in our communities and for something that reminded us (if with irritation at times) that Christmas was near and that it was a time for giving -- even if it was 80 degrees and humid.

[Robyn1007]

Beth,

I'm curious to understand why you think that giving to St. Jude Children's Hospital is a loss for your community? Surely, there are children from your area being treated at St Jude, at no or little cost to the family. In addition, the doctors and scientists openly share their research and methods with doctors worldwide so that they can treat these children so a doctor in your area may benefit from that info to treat a child from your neighborhood.

Jennifer, Keep us posted on the most recent interview. The ornaments are special in our family, I received one every year from my granny so when she passed I decided to continue the tradition. They are fairly inexpensive and fun to find new and interesting designs.

[Juli B]

I think it is fine that Target won't allow the Salvation Army kettles at the stores. I don't think that they should get preferential treatment over any other organizations, and I don't like how they ring the bell right at you and try to make you feel guilty.

[Beth]

Originally posted by Robyn1007
Beth,

I'm curious to understand why you think that giving to St. Jude Children's Hospital is a loss for your community? Surely, there are children from your area being treated at St Jude, at no or little cost to the family.

I don't think that giving to St. Jude's is a loss to our or any particular community. Again, the words have gotten twisted. I have often given to St. Jude's and think they are a fine institution. I recognize their place in research and treatment, whether anyone in this area is being treated by them or with their support.

My point it that it doesn't seem that Target has said that Salvation Army cannot ring the bell in front of their stores because they got preferential treatment so much as they have replaced Salvation Army with a different organization and taken it indoors. The way they have chosen to do it makes it less likely that I will participate, and it does mean that my family and I do not give those unplanned contributions that probably add up to another check that might be written over the holiday season. It means that my sons don't have the joy of donating and knowing that they are helping others. They don't get to share holiday greetings with a person they know is standing there for hours to help others. And the money that has been given by all those in my area is not likely to be replaced by those who do remember to write checks. That was money that stayed in our community and helped people with the basics of living. That is a loss, no matter what a different organization might add.

I may be wrong, but it looks like Target decided to partner with another charity in a way that it would gain both publicity and sales. The bellringers at the door might have been at conflict with that plan, so they decided not to allow them. They didn't explain their decision, as I think they would have if they had been getting pressure from other groups.

[jellyben]

Beth, I understand your desire to teach your boys the joy of giving, but surely there are bell ringers elsewhere in your neighborhood? We seem to have them outside every grocery store in town.
I don't necessarily agree with Target's position, but I know that I will have ample opportunities this season for spontaneous donations. The grocery store sells sacks of food that go to the local food bank for example.

[Beth]

Yes, there are other opportunities, but putting a dollar is immediate, spontaneous and the message is clear. Putting a stapled bag of groceries you didn't pick or bag doesn't do the same thing -- not to mention that I do as much grocery shopping without two growing boys as possible.

I'm certainly not saying the community gets nothing if Salvation Army isn't in front of Target, just that I feel it is a loss. That doesn't take away anything from any other group or any other way of giving. That's just my feeling on one aspect of one issue.

[Robyn1007]

Beth,

I read your post as giving to St. Jude was a loss to the community rather than what you have clarified to be not being able to give to Salvation Army is a loss to the community to which I can agree. Sorry I misunderstood.

I think I better step away from this thread now, its been an emotional week for me and I think I am triggering at the wrong things and the wrong people. I apologize if I offended.

Robyn

[Beth]

I'm not offended. I'm just tired. Not feeling good either -- seems like the echinacea just keeps me from getting really sick, but it lasts forever. Oh well, too much going on to be able to get really sick, so I guess I'll plug on. Not feeling well, I may not be expressing myself as well as I could either. I think I understood, but I felt misunderstood and tired. I'd rather you ask if you did misunderstand. Sorry it's been a hard week for you. Moving on now.....