Eating as the French Do

[rosie_one]

On the recommendation of a few other foodie types, I picked up The Fat Fallacy: The French Diet Secrets to Permanent Weight Loss by Dr. Will Clower. Honestly, it's got a horrible title, I had a hard time spending $10 on it, but it came so highly recommended that I did.

Has anyone else read/tried this philosophy? The author is a neuroscientist and the first part of the book is a little from the soapbox. I felt like he could have summed up a hundred pages in about 10. The second part, however, has a pretty interesting eating plan. Basically, he rails against what he calls "faux foods". Those products that are developed in a lab rather than a kitchen, especially those that are engineered to be low fat versions of everyday items. He feels, in a nutshell, that they just aren't satisfying so we never feel full and just keep eating. We would be much better off eating as the French do. Full fat, healthy, from scratch food, until you are full. Nothing processed, nothing engineered. Emphasizing good fats rather than bad (poultry, fish, seafood, dairy, olive and canola oils vs. beef, pork and partially hydrogenated whatever oils).

On some levels it makes a LOT of sense. Being sated with good "real" food is healthy. Avoiding the constant snacking is good too. On others, it really flies in the fact of what we have been taught. Full fat milk and yogurt really are the way to go? Hmmm... Only one main meal a day, and later in the evening is fine? Drink wine (1-2 glasses) every day? A four course dinner that includes cheese and dessert is best? You really should go to the grocery at least twice a week? I shouldn't count calories at all?

As a cook I love it. I can't wait to get out my breadmaker and experiment with after dinner cheeses and many of my favorite recipes fit in really well. My first grocery list and trip to the store today was almost a relief. If you breeze past all those processed things there are so many fewer complicated decisions. If I couldn't understand 90% of the ingredients on the list or saw the word hydrogenated, I passed. And I came home with some very tasty stuff. I'm really looking forward to our meals this week.

Now, DH is pretty wary. He spent most of his life very obese and finally, after DS was born, lost over 100 lbs. doing a low carb plan. It worked, but you couldn't possibly eat that way forever. He has kept the weight off for 4 years now but it is slowly creeping back on, especially during the holidays. He, of course, is worried that eating this way will make him fat again. It is kind of a leap of faith. I hope it works out. He got fat eating processed crapola, so at least he won't be going down that road again. He and I have about 10-15 pounds to lose each to be at ideal weights for our frame. I have my fingers crossed. I really want this to work out well because I'd LOVE to eat this way forever.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone else given it or something similar a go? I'd love to hear your feedback.

[CompassRose]

I would be too afraid -- :p -- no, I shouldn't laugh, I'm kind of pathetic really.

I would caution you on one thing, "eat until satisfied" has a very different meaning to a healthy, balanced person (which presumably means the bred-and-born French person) than it does to anyone with Food Issues, whether those be habitual overeating, binging or whatever -- which may very well mean your husband.

I ran into that myself on a carb-cycling diet -- not nearly so much fun as this one, but one of the premises was that on high-carb days you could eat carbs "until satisfied" for three meals. Well. You would be amazed at how much a smallish person of European descent with a history of difficulties with food can put away if given "permission", even of healthy, supposedly-filling, unadorned carbs like whole barley, without being satisfied or at all full! It was fun, but I did gain weight, and when I counted things up (one of the advantages of this particular diet was supposedly to eliminate the anal counting of macros and grams) I was not in the least surprised, as I was averaging, including low-carb days during which I netted quite low calories by default, about six hundred calories more per day than I was used to!

Anyway. The point of this long and somewhat pointless story is that you might want to sort of -- not count, exactly, but keep track. And be very very aware of what "satisfied" feels like, and stop there. A lot of people, including me, in this culture, tend to associate real "satisfaction" with that post-holiday-meal or giant-buffet feeling, where you're practically crawling away from the table, and that is NOT what the French think!

You might also want to check out this blog over at eGullet, (http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=44166&hl=montignac) which traces the course of one woman's eating on a somewhat similar principle (the Montignac Method, which, however, splits carbs and fat) in France, and includes pictures of her food which are going to make you long for something better for lunch.

[newcook]

The French also eat very small portions. In the evening they may snack on chocolate. But to them that means maybe one small square from the bar. They don't deprive themselves of anything so they don't binge. For us to do that now would be very difficult because we have had a lifetime of feeling deprived. We don't feel satisfied with 1/2 a pastry only because we eat it so rarely. They eat pastry anytime they feel like it, so they are satisfied with 1/2 a pastry.

I am doubtful we are able to make the change.

Daniele

[jtoepfert100]

I believe I just read a review of this book in one of the countless magazines I take - sorry, can't remember which one. Basically, they said the same things that have already been mentioned here. Seems like a great idea in principal but it is just too hard for Americans to lose weight this way. It is a completely and utterly different way for most of us to eat and think about food and most people would have too many emotional and physical barriers to do this. If it really were that easy for all of us to "eat until satisfied", we wouldn't be having this discussion. Not only are Americans used to being deprived as one poster noted, we are also ingrained with the "waste not, want not" mentality beat into us as children. As a child, if I did not clear my plate (filled with servings given to me, not selected by me), I had to sit there until all the food was gone. If it got too late, Mom wrapped it up and I ate it for breakfast. Didn't eat it for breakfast, I ate it for lunch and so on, you get the idea. I am not blaming any of my current food issues on Mom, but I provide this as an example of how most people have a very hard time separating satisfied from a clear plate.

All this being said, I don't think it CAN'T be done. If you try this, I'd be interested in how it works out.

[miami]

This plan makes perfect sense, but there are two keys to making it work and YOU CANNOT CHEAT WITH EITHER ONE: they are: 1) small portions and 2) exercise.

By small portions I mean a serving of fish is the size of a deck of cards; a portion of rice or barley is the size of your fist; a serving of vegetables is 1/2 cup; a serving of bread is one slice. the French also walk or bicycle rather than using cars as much as we do. You have to incorporate exercise into your daily life. If you can do that, you will lose weight and keep it off.

I agree with previous comments about using "satisfied" as a criterion after many years of training yourself that satisfied = stuffed.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes

[rosie_one]

CompassRose, I love eGullet. :) I bought the book based on a thread there.

I talked this over with DH quite a bit and I definitely see what you all mean. But I disagree that it is an insurmountable issue. I think we can rework his thinking. He is trainable, I'm certain. ;) We agreed that the really tempting things, like full fat ice cream and the fresh breads with cheeses, would have to be portion controlled, at least at first, until he is over the need to put them away like crazy. I'm planning to do plated meals rather than serve family style. Dinner will go like this tonight:

First course - Winter squash and sweet potato soup with glazed pecans... Cottage cheese and fruit for the kids. This will be a cup of soup for me, a small bowl for him.

Entrée - Chicken breasts in mushroom maderia sauce, sautéed spinach, popovers

Cheese plate - a moderately sized slice of warmed Brie with water crackers, sliced strawberries

Dessert - 1 scoop of ice cream, breyers vanilla, with home made caramel sauce and more of the glazed pecans

White wine for us, milk for the kids.

Now, that isn't an outrageously rich meal, assuming your portion sizes of the popovers, cheese and ice cream are small. But it should be very tasty, I think. And part of the deal is that we have to really enjoy it, savor every bite, rather than wolf it down. Also, each course is served only after everyone has had enough of the previous course and it has been cleared. Definitely more family time at the table, which I'm also looking forward to.

DHs downfall has always been cheese, he LOVES the stuff, and so I can see where this will take some planning. However, his usual deal with cheese is that he arrives home from work absolutely starving and wolfs down half a brick without even tasting it before dinner. Not good. This way, with the cheese as a third course, he'll actually get to enjoy it. I'm also planning to start sending him with healthy snacks to eat at work at about 3:30 or 4. A yogurt and a handful of nuts, or a couple of tablespoons of hummus and some carrot sticks. Peanut butter and an apple... something tasty with protein.

I also think we are trying the slow and sure weight loss route. I'd like us to lose this 10-15 lbs. over at least 6 months not 6 weeks.

[annagins]

I think People Magazine (the Jen and Brad issue) has an article about the subject -- I haven't read it yet, but I think it's by or about the woman who wrote this book.


Personally, I am all for the French diet and love their attitude towards food and life. But in the grand scheme of things, it's part of a lifestyle they live that we as Americans can only try to emulate in our personal lives. Statistically, we'll never have the lower mortality rates because we eat fast food, commute (sit still in the car for hours) and most of all, pride ourselves on how "busy, busy, busy!" we are :rolleyes:. Americans are stressed, but many seem to wear their stress levels as some kind of badge of excellence. We're also extremly competitive. I think these things play into our unhealthy, less relaxed lifestyle.

[susan_foster]

I think the best approach is to take the ideas from that book, and apply them sensibly. It's definitely a good idea to eat as close to the land as is reasonably possible - but there needs to be some kind of understanding of moderation in all things. For some, the ability to listen to the cues about when to stop eating is easier. For others, it may be hard, and artificial constraints may need to be constructed. At the end of the day, I think it's a question of what makes sense.

Susan

[blazedog]

I read the People article (and had heard of the diet before).

Her recommendation was to spend a weekend eating her leek broth as a method of cleansing, detoxing and jumpstarting weight loss. As soon as I read that, I knew she was bogus and probably maintained her weight by these kinds of methods -- not at all uncommon - what after all is the old grapefruit diet or juice fast.

There are of course many people (beside) the French who maintain a normal weight by eating small portions of what they please. If you've never had a weight problem and didn't gain weight as your metabolism slowed in your 30's and 40's, you probably have a very healthy attitude towards food -- you eat what you like until you are satiated and then don't eat until you are hungry again. I've known people like this of course although it becomes increasingly difficult (especially for women) as our metabolism slows more and more.

It's really not that different from the WW Flex plan which allows you to eat whatever you want as long as you stay within the number of points -- eat small portions of high point (i.e. high calorie/high fat) foods or larger portions of lower calorie/lower fat foods.

I know that I am better off eating larger quantities of healthier foosd -- As long as I am not hungry I am able to avoid temptation and I don't keep temptation around -- I plan for it.

But food preferences are a really personal thing -- whatever works.:)

[rosie_one]

Yes, French lives are different. DH absolutely has more stress in a week than many folks on the rivera experience in several months. However, I'm not sure this is a good excuse. I think there has to be a way we can eat well even if we are busy. In fact, I think it is more important to eat well if you are under a lot of stress.

The other habit that DH insisted we absolutely had to adopt if we are going to go Frenchy is spending more time in the sack. Viva L'Amore! ;) Perhaps THAT will motivate him too. :D

[rosie_one]

By the way, I think we are talking about two different plans here. The people magazine diet and the Dr. Will Clower plan.

There is no Leek Broth fast in the Dr. Clower version.

[blazedog]

Rosie,

Different author -- same premise based on the fact that the French eat a theoretically rich diet yet are not as overweight as Americans.

One other point is that the French smoke incessantly which aids weight control. The percentage of middle to upper middle class people in the US who smoke is tiny (unless we are talking about the Hollywood/New York population of size 0 actresses and models who smoke for weight control). Middle and upper middle class people in France smoke A LOT -- I know because I used to work in a French company and the French executives were the only executives lurking outside with the American mail room personnel in the smoking section.:D

[mom2garret]

Just last week the Today Show had someone on discussing this very thing. I am sure the website will have the information from the discussion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032633/?ta=y

Jodi

[wallycat]

Not much more to add, really.

The French do not snack much...but I find snacking necessary because my blood sugar drops and I am unwilling to suffer.

The French walk everywhere...exercise, exercise and exercise.

And yes...their portions are much smaller than ours...but that's back to calories...

After reviewing countless "diet theories," the Mayo clinic and Harvard clinic said that the bottom line was that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie (what a concept!)....and if you take in more than you expend....you gain weight...makes no difference what the food was.
Having said that, because we are all different and process things a bit differently, it is important to find an eating plan that is optimal in health and allows you to feel satisified.

I agree...the French enjoy what they eat and they eat some wonderfully tasting, real food. I hope our Americanized eating never makes a permanent home there :rolleyes:

[Little Bit]

My own rather limited experience living in France included some time in the home of a French family.

Meals were simply different than the American 'meat and three' routine.

Every evening meal, it's true, had some meat and some sort of vegetable, each course served on its' own plate, but every evening meal also included a green salad (quite plain by the American standard), quantities of fresh fruit, fromage blanc (the family I lived with preferred it to yogurt) and bread and cheese. Even if you skipped the first part of the meal, all the obligatory extras were quite filling. None of them were particularly high fat, or laden with extra calories.

Would an average American be contented with such a meal every evening?

[Beth H]

Drink wine (1-2 glasses) every day? A four course dinner that includes cheese and dessert is best? You really should go to the grocery at least twice a week? I shouldn't count calories at all?

Sounds awesome! :)

Seriously, I think another reason that the French (and Europeans in general) tend to stay fitter is that they walk more. Most Parisians, for example, don't use cars in the city, and even if you use public transportation, you're still walking from the Metro stop to your home and/or office.

On a thread a month or so ago, we were talking about the results of a "survey" that illustrated how the French and Americans think differently about food. The survey prompted a one word reaction to certain things. For instance, when the researchers said, "chocolate cake," the French responded, "fun," and Americans responded "guilt." The same for whipped cream, etc. Maybe if attitudes about food are different (i.e., there aren't "forbidden" foods), people tend to binge less on things.

[jtoepfert100]

Originally posted by Beth H


Seriously, I think another reason that the French (and Europeans in general) tend to stay fitter is that they walk more. Most Parisians, for example, don't use cars in the city, and even if you use public transportation, you're still walking from the Metro stop to your home and/or office.


I firmly believe this to be true. People here treat walking as an anomaly. I walk everywhere, and I mean absolutely everywhere. When I lived in DC, this wasn't THAT strange, although I still walked more than most. When I moved to Memphis, a friend told me that if I did this I would be viewed as eccentric. I thought he was kidding. He wasn't. People think I am absolutely crazy. We have beautiful sidewalks and even working crosswalks but NOBODY uses them. (And don't even get me on non-friendly pedestrian drivers!!!!!) I see people in shopping centers leave one store, get in there car, drive over one lane and repark only to exit and go into the store next door!:eek: I do run and lift weights, too, but I think it's the walking that really keeps my metabolism from slowing to a crawl. People are always asking me for ideas on how they should exercise, etc., and I always say that instead of "working out", they should just try walking certain places or taking the stairs more often. Mostly, I just get blank stares and "yeah, right" utterances under their breath.:rolleyes:

blazedog - I'm with you - it's all what works for you and larger quantities of healthy food work best for me, too. Whether right or wrong, I know I'm going to eat a large amount of food no matter what it is, so I keep healthy food in the house, cook healthy and hope for the best.:)

[greysangel]

I agree on the walking phenomenon. Not having a car, I'm used to walking everywhere. Even with the higher number of walkers, I still had one woman at Curves "You go girl!" me for walking 6 blocks from my house to their gym :rolleyes: 6 blocks!?!

j

[badunnin]

I spent a year in Europe, and didn't drop an ounce. ;) Partly because of the quantity of beer that I drank :eek:, but also because the walking I did helped build muscle - I was a totally different shape when I was there.

Seems like a great idea in principal but it is just too hard for Americans to lose weight this way. It is a completely and utterly different way for most of us to eat and think about food and most people would have too many emotional and physical barriers to do this. If it really were that easy for all of us to "eat until satisfied", we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But isn't losing weight about changing behaviours? There is no reason American's can't lose weight this way - it's a change in behaviour, just as Atkins is, or SBD, or getting to the gym (or going for a walk) 3 times a week. If you expect changes, you need to make changes. Losing weight is seldom easy.

[jtoepfert100]

Originally posted by greysangel

I agree on the walking phenomenon. Not having a car, I'm used to walking everywhere. Even with the higher number of walkers, I still had one woman at Curves "You go girl!" me for walking 6 blocks from my house to their gym 6 blocks!?!

LOL!!

Originally posted by badunnin


But isn't losing weight about changing behaviours? There is no reason American's can't lose weight this way - it's a change in behaviour, just as Atkins is, or SBD, or getting to the gym (or going for a walk) 3 times a week. If you expect changes, you need to make changes. Losing weight is seldom easy.

Oh, I absolutely agree. I just think that so many times people see a book or a diet and think "AHA," finally, an easy way to lose weight. They always sound so simple in theory. Losing weight is really one of the hardest things to do.

[greysangel]

Originally posted by jtoepfert100

Losing weight is really one of the hardest things to do.

Amen. :D

[blazedog]

Originally posted by badunnin



But isn't losing weight about changing behaviours? There is no reason American's can't lose weight this way - it's a change in behaviour, just as Atkins is, or SBD, or getting to the gym (or going for a walk) 3 times a week. If you expect changes, you need to make changes. Losing weight is seldom easy.

Actually not in my experience. Obviously to lose weight and maintain weight one has to make changes in one's eating and exercise habits. However, for the long term it's better to deal with one's emotional and physical givens and then work within that.

You've got to know yourself and then work out a program within those parameters -- Personally I am better avoiding certain kinds of foods because it is difficult for me to limit portions. Knowing this, why should I deliberately try to eat them when I am just as happy eating other less calorically dense food choices.

If it works for you - then go for it. I think it's a waste of time for most overweight people though -- far better to eat a pint of raspberries than the equivalent calories in chocolate.

[mbrogier]

Don't forget that French portions are smaller than ours. Their chicken dinner isn't going to be a huge plate filled up. It will be a sensible portion, and if eaten by itself will not satisfy someone who is really hungry. When you eat the courses together you have a complete meal. When we eat courses, we normally think, a whole bowl of soup (a meal), a big plate of chicken (a meal), and a huge hunk of dessert. You won't lose weight if you have their plan and our portions.

I don't think that we can eat all the full fat things they do. Their cholesterol levels and heart health is better than ours because they have lived like this their whole lives. We can't come in already sick from our bad lifestyles and add in all the extra fat that they can process to our already sick systems. In time you will improve by eating healthier, but eating lots of full fat items is not going to lower your cholesterol or unclog your arteries.

I'm not sure cardiologists will like this diet, and I wonder what studies will show in 5-10 years if a lot of people start eating this way because it means they can eat full fat items.

(not that full fat items are evil, but if your cholesterol is bad, and you have heart disease...seriously, think about it. You might want to tweak the diet just a bit. I think the eating plan as a whole is a great idea.)

Walking and exercise is a key. If the French sat on their butts all day like we did, they'd be fat, too.

[rosie_one]

Well, I don't know... we'll see. Obviously SOMETHING isn't right about the American diet or at least mine in specific if I'm carrying around 5 or 10 extra pounds. It doesn't seem like it would hurt to give this a try. That said, I do think it might be a difficult plan for the "average American" to follow as it requires a lot more planning and scratch cooking than most are used to. But, I love to cook and enjoy the planning, so hey. And of course it's all about me. ;)

My first meal in this new way of thinking was lunch today. Settled down for a nice bit of sushi and some grapes, followed by a small bit of cheddar and a square of chocolate and half way through the sushi roll, bam... the school calls me in to pick up my sick daughter. So much for savoring. After running to get her I just wasn't hungry anymore and the rest went uneaten, but by 2:00 sure enough, I'm famished. So, 2 wasa multi-grain crackers topped with cream cheese plus a square of dark chocolate for a snack seemed to do the trick.

I did the soup for tonight, which smells great and glazed the pecans. Honestly, if you add up the calories planned for today, it would be about what I did on the WW flex plan, which worked for me, but I just didn't enjoy. I don't think this is doomed for failure.

[blazedog]

Originally posted by rosie_one

I did the soup for tonight, which smells great and glazed the pecans. Honestly, if you add up the calories planned for today, it would be about what I did on the WW flex plan, which worked for me, but I just didn't enjoy. I don't think this is doomed for failure.

Well now I am totally confused -- What is the difference between what you are doing and what you can do on Flex. With Flex you can purchase any food you want with the points available. However, for people who need portion controls, Flex imposes limitations with respect to size of portion and amount of total food eaten in a day/week.

[RebeccaT]

It sounds like the difference is that rosie's portion limitations are self-imposed, versus Flex which imposes them on you. With Flex, you don't really have to think that hard, you just measure and eat. Great for people like me who struggle with eating slowly and mindfully. With this French plan, it sounds like rosie is eating normal, healthy portions because she is taking the time to enjoy her food and eat it mindfully.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, rosie, so let me know if I misinterpreted. I am rooting for you, and I am very interested in hearing about your progress and thoughts as you stay on this plan.

I have often thought that all this good/bad, denial/indulgence, available/forbidden is a load of bunk. But I haven't found a way to control my weight in any other way. I really hope this works for you!

[rosie_one]

Thanks Rebecca! :)

I think you hit it on the head. The difference is that you don't need to record everything and you should avoid processed foods. WW actually encouraged the processed stuff because, well, they make a lot of money on it. And the way in which you eat is emphasized in this book, which it isn't in the Flex Points system. You are encouraged to make multi course dinners including smaller portions. And, like Rebecca said, really enjoy what you eat.

Plus, this isn't $16.95 a month.

When I was doing flex, I found I was saving my points for treats like booze and dessert and not eating enough of the healthy stuff. In fact, a lot of the time I was just eating bland processed stuff that fit within the plan just because it was there and easy. Which was bad. I definitely had less energy on that system and enjoyed food less. It became a more clinical process. This way, the way I understand it, you have the treats but you should keep them small, very balanced with a lot of other healthy food choices, which will be a very good thing for me to learn.

[Aubergine]

what a marvelous, thoughful, and unusual thread!

rosie_one, i salute you for your inquiring mind and envy you a bit that your DH and you are a team together on the changes you are contemplating --around here, i have to impose changes, altho', to his credit, SO is a good sport and a happy camper.

i lived in france for 3 years, and revisit occasionally. you've never seen a slimmer nation of people! and what's been discussed is true--different (healthier?) attitudes towards food from birth, small portions, walking -- forget about the cars and streets! the older, pre-1980's buildings have no elevators, and hiking up and down 3-4-5 flights constantly isn't unusual.

nobody has mentioned culture nor genetics. i know that my own heritage includes cultures where a bounty on the table signifies "wealth," something americans have long been obsessed with. more than that, there's no question in my mind that some persons are born to be slender, and others, to be fleshier. case in point: i have a 21-y-o DS who is a 6'3" beanpole (and eats huge meals but can't gain a pound), and a 5'7" 19-y-o DD who tries to diet but was built to wear her 5'7" curvy build.

currently i'm grappling with the concept of 'allowing' myself to weigh 15 lbs. more than my so-called 'ideal' weight (in my own mind), because at this 'size':rolleyes: i can actually eat 'normally.' i want to enjoy some chocolate! i want to taste-test every new flavor of muffins that my new interest (thanks to here) has brought me!

the ironic part is that there is a statement floating about the 'net for years which has been attributed to Julia Child; to wit: "Everything in moderation, except moderation."

[pschambers]

rosie one, I think it sounds like a wonderful plan and an adventure. I too am rooting for you and will be curious to hear about the results.

I just read the article in Eating Well about Rick Bayless and I think the principle sounds very similar. If you have access to the article you should check it out. I think you might enjoy it.

Patti

[kwormann]

I have French Women Dont Get Fat on order. I love hte principal behind it that you can eat less if you ENJOY the food you eat...savor it. ALSO EXERCISE...move your body more.

[kwormann]

I have French Women Dont Get Fat on order. I love hte principal behind it that you can eat less if you ENJOY the food you eat...savor it. ALSO EXERCISE...move your body more.

[rosie_one]

Thanks for all of your support! :)

Dinner went very well, though I think I'm not in the rhythm yet. I expect the multi-course flow will go more smoothly as I get more experience with it.

DH LOVED it. He was especially thrilled with the first course, which was on the table within a few minutes of his arrival from work. Usually it takes me about 15-20 minutes to get everything together, but a soup was easy to get on the table quickly. The sweet potato butternut soup is so simple (1 mashed sweet potato, 1 box frozen winter squash puree, 1 cup chicken broth plus cinnamon, nutmeg and allspice) and it's one of his absolute favorites. I think this kind of took the edge off of everyone's hunger and made us all able to be a little more patient while I pulled the remaining courses together.

The second course was Chicken with a mushroom and Maderia sauce, Popovers and Sauteed spinach. Chicken sauteed in butter and olive oil, then set aside... the white part of three green onions and about 8 mushrooms, sliced into the remaining butter an oil, then about 2/3 cup maderia wine. This sat on the back burner on low through the first course. After the first course I took the popovers out of the oven, quickly sauteed the spinach and plated the entree course up. (my kids had everything but the sauce on the chicken).

Then a short break while I warmed the brie, which we had with the rest of our wine. I skipped the strawberries I had planned here. I should have cut them up ahead of the meal.

Finally very small (maybe 2 oz.) scoops of Breyers vanilla with a quick butter and sugar caramel drizzled over the top and a few of the glazed pecan halves. This was SO good, excellent savoring practice ;). But, when I was done... I was ready to be done. Dinner was about 1 hour and 15 minutes total. The kids wandered off during the cheese but were right back at the table for the ice cream. I loved the lingering conversation. It was very relaxed, which suprised me considering the meal was actually more complex than we are used to. It was just really nice not to bolt our food and run.

I'm full, but not overly so. This was successful, but a fair amount of work and more clean up than I would have liked. I hope this improves with practice. I would have been better off, for example, having made breadmaker bread or rolls earlier in the day. The popovers were tricky timing-wise. DH and I agreed that as far as calories go, we certainly ate no more than our usual dinners when we were doing WW.

So, the plan for tomorrow...

Breakfast - Whole milk yogurt, granola and sliced strawberries

Lunch - leftover soup and deviled eggs, chocolate

Dinner - 1st course, spinach salad with dried cherries and blue cheese
Entree, Marinated salmon, sauteed zucchini and pine nuts, brioche rolls
Cheese plate - Mustard seed Gouda, Creamy Havarti
Dessert - Decaf coffee and Chocolate or a small slice of sweet bread if I get it made

[alicerh]

I saw a French woman who wrote one of the "French diet" type books on 60 Min, Dateline or one of those shows last week. What stuck with me was that nothing is off limits so they never have cravings. Also she said they never eat an entire dessert. After 3 bites she said the taste is satisfied and they stop eating it. They don't obcess about food like we do.
Alice

[Goin' Coastal]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jtoepfert100
[B]

I firmly believe this to be true. People here treat walking as an anomaly. I walk everywhere, and I mean absolutely everywhere. When I lived in DC, this wasn't THAT strange, although I still walked more than most. When I moved to Memphis, a friend told me that if I did this I would be viewed as eccentric.

Jen - My DD is living in Memphis going to graduate school ( for dietetics) and LOVES to walk. So if you see a tall size four blonde out walking, it just might be my DD! And I know she maintains that size 4 by all the walking she does.

[newcook]

Originally posted by blazedog


Well now I am totally confused -- What is the difference between what you are doing and what you can do on Flex. With Flex you can purchase any food you want with the points available. However, for people who need portion controls, Flex imposes limitations with respect to size of portion and amount of total food eaten in a day/week.

I think the difference is in the focus. The French way focuses on the social aspect of the meal including conversation and savouring the food. The French can take 3 to 4 hours to eat an evening meal.

Flex points still focuses on food and sets a limit on it, which causes the forbiden fruit syndrome.

Also, they don't walk as a form of exersize, they walk to get somewhere or to stroll around.

Daniele

[ChristineVA]

Originally posted by newcook


I
Also, they don't walk as a form of exersize, they walk to get somewhere or to stroll around.

Daniele

I think the key is that they walk everywhere to get somewhere. They either walk or bike to work, walk to and from the market, walk to the movies. I'm sure if we could live like that here in the U.S. (and most of us cannot), we could eat many of these different foods also, and not get fat.
Christine

[doglady8]

I want to comment on the smaller portions issue - one thing that I started to do months ago with my family is to serve meals on our smaller "salad" plates, instead of our much larger "dinner" plates.

At first my husband was horrified, but now he is used to it. You can serve smaller portions but they seem much larger on the plate. It is really a psychological thing, but does work. If you have a larger plate, you are going to fill it with more food so it looks lush and welcoming.

For us, that one simple change has really helped.

Nancy

[annagins]

Originally posted by kwormann
I have French Women Dont Get Fat on order. I love hte principal behind it that you can eat less if you ENJOY the food you eat...savor it. ALSO EXERCISE...move your body more.

The woman who wrote French Women Don't Get Fat was the woman in People Magazine (I finally got around to actually reading it last night).

Personally, I found everything she said to be just common sense. Eat less, exercise more. In the end, it's calories in/calories out.

The "All Leek Weekend" thing at the bottom was kind of weird and didn't really seem to fit with what she was saying at all. It's almost as if people were so incredulous that common sense approach to diet could work that she felt she had to throw in some silly stuff about leeks and cleansing.

On the other hand, maybe a leek cleanse every once in a while is a good idea. We're quick to judge those who fast occassionally as harming their bodies and such, but I've found that after a short fast I do actually feel a little "cleansed". So who knows....

[blazedog]

Again whatever works but the premise of the plan is really not very earth shattering in terms of food choices and behavior modification.

It takes 20 minutes for the brain to register satiation. Most people consume too much high calorie food in that 20 minutes because they gobble it down and go back for more and don't register they have eaten enough until they feel stuffed in about 25 minutes:D

So you eat soup or a low cal type salad to start a meal which enables you to to feel full and slows down the eating process.

You make sure that your dinner plate is balanced with a large portion of veggies, a smaller portion or greens and some carbs.

You don't eat in front of the television or read while eating because you want to eat mindfully and chew thoughtfully so that one registers what one is eating.

At the end of the day, it's calories in vs. calories burned so you need to either keep these in balance (for weight maintenance) or have a caloric deprivation of approximately 500 calories per day for weight loss -- this provides the approximately 2 pounds per week loss recommended by most doctors since a pound is 3500 calories.

Obviously you need to exercise -- whether that occurs naturally because you live in a traditional urban environment or whether you fit it in by doing some form of conscious exercise.

All diet plans force one in some way to reduce the amount of calories eaten. Some do it in a way that promotes health and can be done for the rest of one's life. Others are fads and have a limited life span.

[rosie_one]

Nancy, that is a good point. I'm planning to rummage around in my cupboards today and dig out our smaller serving stuff. I have some small plates, gratins, ramekins and even my "good" teacups that I think might be great for serving smaller portions. In the book he suggests espresso cups too, for things like sorbet and ice cream.

I know, it is true that I can't do nearly as much walking as I would like to, since it is January in Wisconsin. However, I did something even better today that the French never really experience. I shoveled 2 inches of snow off a long driveway. :D I've also (following in Kay Henderson's literal footsteps) decided to go shopping for some snowshoes. I think I'd love it.

Alice, I hear you about the obsessing thing too. The French seem to really love and enjoy food. Thinking about food and it's potential for enjoyment is much better than worrying about it all the time.

[Rosechef]

rosie-one: We too try to eat this way a few times a week...it's very relaxing isn't it!? Unfortunatley with schedules and dinner hour activities, it doesn't happen as often as I'd like.

It's is all about eating consciously. Knowing when you're full and when you're hungry. Knowing there is always more where it came from and that you are not depriving yourself of anything. I now can have one cookie, cause I know I can always get another later in the day if I so desire. It is a freeing was to eat an dthink about food. I think in the US we tend to be all engrossed in food, where the next meal is coming from and what's the dessert going to be. We often don't realize we are not fulfilling physiologic hunger, but rather emotional hunger.

Anyways...Kudos to you. Loved your meanu from last night and plan to try the sweet potato/winter squash soup tonight.
Rose

[rosie_one]

Thanks Rose for the kind words. :)

I think we too will have a night or two a week where this just won't work. Swimming lessons and such tend to get in the way, but I hope to eat dinner this way often.

DH and I had a conversation last night about this. We both really took a hard look at our daily eating patterns. One of the good things about this experiment is that it is making us reevaluate.

My problem is that I have been incredibly erratic about what I eat for breakfast and lunch and, because I'm home all day, I'm very tempted to graze thoughtlessly throughout the day rather than sit down for a real meal. My goal is to think more about my breakfast and lunch and enjoy them rather than just taking them in when I can. I got off to a good start this morning. My whole milk yogurt with granola and sliced strawberries (in a ramekin rather than a cereal bowl) was delicious.

DH has the opposite deal. He eats exactly the same thing day after day because the cafeteria in his building has very few healthy choices (deep fried, breaded, mini bratwurst, anyone? fries with that? ugh). He has a small bowl of oatmeal with a little sweetner for breakfast, Salad and a non-fat yogurt for lunch. Very healthy yes? But, no wonder he is coming home ravenous for cheese and needs large portions at dinner. There is absolutely no fat and very little substance in that day. We decided that he should add some half and half to his oatmeal and use real sugar instead of sweetner at breakfast. Then at lunch add cheese to his salad, skip the yogurt, have a carton of 2% milk and an apple with peanut butter or some carrots and hummus. Hopefully adding a little fat and a little more nutrition during his day will be good damage control in the evening.

Writing this down here is incredibly helpful too, it's definitely helping me to sort it all out. I hope you aren't all bored stiff!

[greysangel]

Rosie - I think what you are trying is wonderful and I will watch along this thread.

I've had somewhat of a paradigm change myself this year. Most people here know my weight loss trials and tribulations along with the what seem long ago successes. On top of dealing with the hormonal/medical issues, I've come to realize I am so not willing to eat like a droid 4-5 meals a day 7 days a week. There has got to be at least one meal a week that I look forward to..not a hog a thon like past experience with this, but a savory kind of full fat in small portions meal with some alcohol and some dessert. I really thought about what I'm willing to do to try to balance this out..having my cake, eating it too, and maybe losing some weight. Maybe someday I can get to where you are now, right now there are way too many emotional triggers for that :D

Another book you may want to pick up is "Entre Nous - Releasing your inner french girl" DH bought it for me for Christmas and it's a fun, light read. It's not a diet book at all, though the concept you are trying out is covered in the book. But it also talks about cultural differences, fashion, values etc. I really liked the book and thought there were quite a few points to walk away with. I figured you may enjoy it :D

j

[annagins]

Originally posted by greysangel

Another book you may want to pick up is "Entre Nous - Releasing your inner french girl"
j

Oh my. I'll have to buy that one right now, if not for the name alone ;).

[rosie_one]

Originally posted by annagins


Oh my. I'll have to buy that one right now, if not for the name alone ;).

Just what I was thinking! What a cute title. Thanks for the recommendation JeAnne. I'll pick that one up. I also can see why this might not work for everyone but, I think you are on to something with a once a week meal where you forget the stress of it all and just enjoy. I definitely understand how much of a struggle weight issues can be and it sounds like you could use a break.

Speaking of continuing struggles, out of curiosity, I recorded my day's intake in my points tracker on WW. (My subscription doesn't run out till the end of the month.) I'm right on target. I usually shoot for about 26 points, depending on my activity level, and I was at 25 for today. I feel like having had the WW experience will enhance this one. I've gotten a good feel for smaller portion sizes and some great recipes from them.

I also set the menu for tomorrow.

Breakfast - more granola, yogurt and fruit
Lunch - leftover salmon, an apple with peanut butter and an english muffin

Dinner:
First Course - Artichoke and Spinach baked appetizer
Entree - Garlicky baked Shrimp Link (http://community.cookinglight.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61919&highlight=garlicky+baked+shrimp) , brioche rolls, edamame
Cheese - 2 different cheddars
Dessert - Decaf. Coffee and a little ice cream

This weekend we are planning to travel a bit. That will certainly pose some challenges. On Saturday I'll be cooking, so we can do this routine, but Friday we will be eating out. I'm going to have to exercise a lot of self control as I know the portion sizes of things will be a lot larger than necessary.

[veschke]

This is all very inspiring (she says, munching through half a bag of Goldfish crackers). Portion control is a personal bugbear, and I like the thought of a leisurely evening at the table. I have to admit, though, that I'm not sure I have the capacity for that much planning (and cooking). I would like to hear how it goes for you!

[capres]

and thoroughly enjoyed it, and it does say a lot about the food we eat and the way we eat it.

Being a WW for many years, I am used to looking at food labels and of course, always choosing the lower fat versions. But after reading this book, I do find myself enjoying real butter on toast and a few other "sins". And that's one of the problems - we think of any food that is real and full-fat and real sugar as "sinful". It wouldn't occur to us to just eat 3 bites of dessert. 3 bites! What about the rest of it on my plate?

We all have such large food issues and I think all this dieting and deprivation have a lot to do with it.

When I am being "very good" (another bad term), I pretend that I am one of the European people who just eat 1 small cookie or a small portion of food for dinner and then a chocolate later in the evening for a snack. But we keep playing these games and then you go to a restaurant and the portions are falling off the plate and it's very difficult to stay in control.

I agree with Aubergine - this is a very thoughtful, insigtful post.

Please continue sharing your progress with us - and your menus! They sound wonderful.

Carol

[Schmee]

Great thread Rosie!

My cousin read a book that talked about really paying attention to your body and recognizing the signals when you are not hungry anymore and it is time to stop eating. She has not changed what she eats very much but she has kept off 15-20 pounds for a few years now. I really think that has a lot to do with it.

I really do not have the capacity for that much planning either,but I really like the concept. Please keep us updated.

[rosie_one]

I've always been a planner, actually... um, yeah, I think you could probably do this without being quite so anal about it. :o I'm likely to keep up the meal planning for dinners and grocery lists, but I'm hoping that once I get the rhythm of the days and the longer meals down I won't have to give quite so much thought to it all and I won't need to blab about it here quite so much. I'll just have a handful of regular meals that I enjoy to choose from in the house plus, plan for special things.

I like planning for just a few days rather than a whole week in advance. I expect to grocery shop twice a week and that makes putting together the plans less daunting. Plus, when your husband decides he needs to go out for dinner on Thursday and the sitter is free, you can wing it more easily. Which is what happened. Scratch that dinner for tomorrow night. It was a nice thought, maybe next week. I'm going to have to test that restaurant philosophy a little sooner than I'd expected to.

For the heck of it, I checked out the book's website to see if they had any interesting recipes or a BB. www.fatfallacy.com . It turns out they do have a BB and a whole online plan to go along with it called "The Path". I dunno it seems a little odd. Almost more like a religious following than a diet plan. Interesting, but I think I'll take a pass.

[newcook]

Originally posted by doglady8
I want to comment on the smaller portions issue - one thing that I started to do months ago with my family is to serve meals on our smaller "salad" plates, instead of our much larger "dinner" plates.

At first my husband was horrified, but now he is used to it. You can serve smaller portions but they seem much larger on the plate. It is really a psychological thing, but does work. If you have a larger plate, you are going to fill it with more food so it looks lush and welcoming.

For us, that one simple change has really helped.

Nancy

I second that idea. When I prepare a meal it is usually for 4 servings. So I immediately separate it into 4 portions, put one portion on my dinner plate and the other 3 portions in plastic containers destined for the freezer. The portion eaten on my dinner plate always seems way more skimpy than the portions eaten out of the smaller containers. I think I will start serving the one dinner plate portion on the smaller salad plates.

Thanks for pointing it out. I had not quite put my finger on the why of it, but it makes sense to me.

Daniele

[newcook]

Originally posted by greysangel

There has got to be at least one meal a week that I look forward to..not a hog a thon like past experience with this, but a savory kind of full fat in small portions meal with some alcohol and some dessert.

j [/B]

This really struck a cord with me. Many years ago I was living on such a tight budget because of a job loss, that I had to eat only the very cheapest things, it took me a year to get back on my feet. That meant processed cheese product or egg sandwiches, canned beans and that kind of thing. After a while I just couldn't do it anymore. I found that if I had one meal a week with steak and mushrooms and dessert or whatever I felt like, I could continue with all of the other meals. It had nothing to do with dieting, but the results were the same. I think I read somewhere the 80% whatching out 20% eating for enjoyment that it would work well in the long run.

Rosie_one, this is one of my favourite threads. Please continue to post, we are all hoping this will work. Who knows it may revolutionize our outlook.

Daniele

[helios7]

This is a fascinating thread, and its getting me excited for my trip to Paris in March! BONUS! :D

But regarding the smaller plates, my first bout with WW a few years ago taught me that. My DH and I habitually eat off the small plates, and if its a meal that requires a big one (like a taco salad or something) we both sort of start at the switch! Its not even conscious now, when we eat I serve onto the small plates.

Funny how you can train yourself, isn't it?

[rosie_one]

Originally posted by blazedog
You don't eat in front of the television or read while eating because you want to eat mindfully and chew thoughtfully so that one registers what one is eating.

I pondered this a little at lunch. I remember one of my yoga teachers was big on mindfulness. Very zen. Being in the here and now instead of earlier, later or whenever.

DH and I are so guilty of wolfing down our food. It started when DD was tiny, her absolute worst time of day was the dinner hour and you know, when baby t'aint happy, nobody happy. One of us would bolt our food while the other tried to appease her for a few minutes. Then we would switch. Nothing leisurely at all about that and, unfortunately with DHs schedule, we didn't have a lot of flexibility with the timing. We went through it all over again with DS and now, finally, with the kids at 5 and 7 we feel like we can dictate the pace of our meals again. What a relief to eat (relatively) uninterupted meals. However, this week we realized that we really hadn't changed our pattern that much, even though the kids are much less demanding now. We were still inhaling our dinner. Worse, we were teaching our kids to do that by example! Vicious cycle.

Of all the changes, the mindful eating thing is proving to be most difficult for me. It's such a hard habit to break. I'm glad the book gives concrete tips about it: Don't put another bite into your mouth until you have swallowed the previous bite. Put your fork down often. Take small bites. Really savor and taste what you are eating. Enjoy a lively conversation at the table. It should be a social place not a "hog a thon" (heh, that is a GREAT phrase).

Dinner went very well tonight. This menu was much more condusive to a course presentation as the timing was less tight as more was done ahead. I made the brioche rolls and the salmon marinade this afternoon. (Soy sauce, rice vinegar, olive and sesame oils, small amount of brown sugar and chopped candied ginger). I think I'll get better at planning the menus so the timing is easy. DH continues to love it, especially the first course and immediate glass of wine, which takes the edge off of his day very nicely. I find myself looking forward to the meal a whole lot more too. It's more fun to cook when you know your presentation will be nice and it will be delicious, satisfying and appreciated.

[veschke]

On this topic, has anyone read Robert Arbor's "Joie de Vivre?" It's more of a lifestyle guide than a cookbook, apparently, but it's been on my wish list for ages and this thread is making me think seriously about buying it. :-)

[rosie_one]

veschke, I haven't read that book. It sounds interesting. Let us know what you think if you do. :)

It’s junk away day.

One of the things I like the best about this new approach is the ousting of prepared foods. This is something I’ve felt like we should do for a long time, but I've never really had the motivation. Today I decided I’m in this for a while, at least, and there are a lot of things in my fridge, freezer and cupboards that I’m unlikely to eat. So, cleanout time. They need it anyways. Most of the stuff will get dropped off at the Salvation Army food pantry this afternoon. Some of it just went in the garbage.

My mom is a really healthy eater and she raised us that way, so with some things I’m already there. We eat the natural peanut butter and healthy cereals, for example (though I keep a jar of Peter Pan for visitors). However, there was a fair amount of processed stuff I culled out. Much of this was just kind of sitting there anyways. Things I bought thinking we might use them and didn’t so it was good to give them away or toss them out.

My criteria for tossing:
1) one of the first three ingredients was corn syrup
2) Mono Sodium Glutamate (msg) on the label
3) Couldn’t understand at least 90% of the ingredients list
4) Old enough that I can’t remember when I bought it and we haven’t used it yet
5) Just seemed sort of disgusting

What I got rid of:
-Crystal Light Tea
-Swiss Miss Hot Cocoa Mix
-3 boxes of Jello
-Graham Crackers
-“Butter” Crackers
-2 large cans of baked beans
-Low Sugar Instant Oatmeal
-Low-fat Mayo
-Butterscotch Ice cream sauce
-BBQ sauce
-5 cans prepared soup (5??!!?)
-1 bag alessi split pea soup
-Chutney
-4 varieties of jelly and Jam (4??!!?)
-Fat Free Salad Dressing (boy I won’t miss that!)
-Bottle of “Butterscorch” schnapps. (Left over from some early 20 something party where we served slippery nipples… I’m 34, guess I could let that go now! :rolleyes: )
-Sour Mix
-Frozen bread dough (I can make the real stuff in my breadmaker in ½ the time it takes this to thaw.)
-Pepperidge farm mini-bagels
-Lean Cuisine Chicken and Pasta meal
-Frozen sweet and sour chicken in a cute little purple Chinese take out package. (This was far and away the worst thing I had. The ingredients list was as long as my arm.)
-Egg “Product”
-Lemonade Concentrate
-Edy’s grand light strawberry ice cream
-Mission Flour Tortillas
-Pita bread
-nonfat yogurt
-Rose’s lime juice
-Prepared horseradish
-Pickle relish

Wow, I have a lot of cupboard and fridge space now! I also think I will be taking out less garbage in the future as many of these things were highly packaged. I hope I can resist the temptation of the grocery shelves and the advertising. They make it all look so good. I realize now how much I was buying, probably based on packaging, that we were not eating. I was also glad to clean my freezer; I found a lot of goodies that would have gone bad if I hadn’t and a pile of yellow goop on the bottom shelf which I cleaned up, ew. :blush:

Of all this stuff, there are only a few things that I’m going to miss: the pita bread, tortillas, horseradish, and pickle relish. And the BBQ sauce. Sweet Baby Rays has been part of our diet for a long time. We have some wonderful associations with that stuff. I’m sure I can come up with my own recipes for pickle relish and BBQ sauce, and hope that I can find healthier substitutes for the other things. All in all, it’s just not that big of a loss.

There were a few things I just couldn't bring myself to toss. The Danimals and the processed cheese slices, my kids adore them. I can't be that mean I guess. Maybe I can wean them of these things slowly.

[rosie_one]

Helios, I'm SO jealous you get to go to Paris! Lucky dog!

I'd love to go there and check it out. So much art, architecture and good food.

[bobmark226]

Rosie, I don't see le crocque pot on that list! ;)

Bob

[Rosechef]

rosie-one: I can't believe you threw out the Rose's Lime juice!! Need that to make a really great Cosmopolitian!!! LOL!!

It has me thinking about making some changes too! Thanks for the inspirational thread.

Rose
PS I am planning on making the soup tonight...can't wait to taste it!

[rosie_one]

Things I didn't give away:

- MY CROCK POT, I still use that thing and you can't talk me out of it Bob. Don't even go there. ;)

- Anything from Penzeys. Even the hot chocolate mix passed with flying colors. Whew.


The Salvation Army reception desk was a good reality check. It was packed in there, full of people needing resources. The guy in front of me was scrounging around for soap and toilet paper. I felt bad that I didn't have either of those things in my bags to give to him. "How about some chutney instead? It has too much high fructose corn syrup in it for me." just didn't seem appropriate. Humbling. I'll go back tomorrow with some toilet paper, soap and a stack of grocery bags. They seem to need those too, which makes sense as they give all their stuff away in them. Boy, there but for the grace of God...

[tamawrite]

Originally posted by jtoepfert100

it's all what works for you and larger quantities of healthy food work best for me, too. Whether right or wrong, I know I'm going to eat a large amount of food no matter what it is, so I keep healthy food in the house, cook healthy and hope for the best.:)

:cool: I love this. It it so me.

[Beth H]

This has been an interesting thread. Rosie - I'm wondering why you pitched the non-fat yogurt. I think of non-fat yogurt as a fairly natural food - or is it something that's easy to make on your own?

[rosie_one]

Rose, I hope you enjoy the soup. And I know about the Rose's and cosmopolitans! I might have to squeeze a few REAL limes. :shock: A while back I read the auto-biography of the Cosmopolitan inventor, Toby Cecchini, "Cosmopolitan: bartender's life". It's a great read if you get the chance. Pretty fascinating stuff.

Beth, I tossed the Light 'n Fit yogurt because of the Aspartame. The Fat Fallacy book says it's not so good and that you are much better off eating the whole milk variety. I've started buying the Stonyfield cream top vanilla and it's very good. I know this is really counterintuitive, but the caloric difference between the two isn't that great. Half a cup of light and fit is 85 calories, half a cup of the Stoneyfield is 120. In the grand scheme, if I'm much more sated by the full fat version (which I am), then I'm better off.

http://www.dannon.com/dn/dnstore/cgi-bin/ProdSubEV_Cat_240849_SubCat_241517_NavRoot_200_Nav ID_241522.htm

Here's a link to the Dannon website listing their ingredients.

The fun part of my day was trying the chocolate experiment in his book. He says one of the marvelous things about chocolate is that it melts at about 96 degrees F. The inside of your mouth is, of course, 98.6, so if you hold a bite of chocolate in there it melts naturally. I tried this with a dove dark chocolate heart and boy, is that fun. :) A good exercise in savoring.

[SusanMac]

Most of the popular/common non-fat yogurt brands are mostly corn syrup (Dannon, Yoplait) and don't have any live yogurt/cultures in them at all. I used to live on the stuff, but now they kind of gross me out. It is funny how easily you can adapt to food changes. I found a yummy, real yogurt called Stonyfield, and that's all I get now. All natural ingredients. thick and yummy.

This has been an interesting thread. Started out a bit frustrating (...I just thought....giving up non-processed food is not a "diet"), but is getting more interesting. I like the idea of stretching out meals more. I'm in awe of this whenever I've gone to Europe & it's so enjoyable, but I never do it at home.

I think I might start eating our dinner salads as an actual "course" rather than on the same plate as the main dish/veggies.

Rosie -- my thing that I won't give up is tortillas. I gave up crackers (which was tough!) & cold/packaged cereals last year. Tortillas are staying. And, I refuse to pay $4 a package for the healthier kind w/o trans fats :-)

You should start a blog on eating like the French!

[blazedog]

I'm not quite sure why one wouldn't eat nonfat plain yogurt.

Women need at least 3 servings of dairy and nutritionists advice against consumption of full fat products.

I am all for eating a little bit of something excessive once in awhile but I would rather save my recommended fat intake for those uses in which it really matters -- i.e. butter on a slice of wonderful bread.

[rosie_one]

I guess this is kind of turning into a blog isn't it? It's just a very cold week in January and I have some time this week and I'm enthusiastic about this subject. I promise I won't go on forever.

I want to make it very clear that I'm not trying at all to stand in judgment against anyone else's eating habits or beliefs. Whatever works for you is great and you should keep on going with that! You definitely know yourself best. I'm not a nutrition or weight loss expert. I just read a book that made me think and I'm trying this stuff on for size and writing down the experience for the heck of it. I encourage you to get the book if you are interested in trying this plan for yourself. I'm giving it kind of a gloss over here and probably missing a lot (like the part where he talks about artifical sweetners, those are bad in his mind too, oops). You're much better off getting it straight from the source than from my ramblings.

O.k. enough disclaimers.

Nonfat plain yogurt is good stuff. I just find it to be a little unpalatable straight out of the cup. I love it in recipes though. The stuff I tossed out was fruit flavored and full of aspartame which I'm now trying to avoid.

Lunch today was an english muffin with a little butter canola blend, a few tablespoons of hummus and about a dozen baby carrots, plus the afore mentioned dove dark chocolate heart and water. For all the time Dr. Clower spends on dinner, he doesn't go into lunch much at all. DH wanted to know if a sandwich was o.k. or not and we both hunted through the book to find out. This reaction seems obsessive, in hindsight, exactly the opposite of what I'm hoping to achieve and makes me realize that we need to use more common sense, already. I suppose if we were French we would have known to have a sandwich, if it seems like a healthy choice and in balance with the rest of your day. If not, skip it.

Dinner tonight is at our favorite restaurant in town and I'm really looking forward to it. I'll let you know how it goes. :)

[badunnin]

Originally posted by rosie_one

Nonfat plain yogurt is good stuff. I just find it to be a little unpalatable straight out of the cup. I love it in recipes though. The stuff I tossed out was fruit flavored and full of aspartame which I'm now trying to avoid.


I also like to add a bit of homemade jam/jelly to my yoghurt - a new flavour every day, and I can mix if I wish. :) And no funky sweeteners.... I also make it a lot less sweet than what comes pre-flavoured.

[jellyben]

Kudos to you Rosie for trying something new. I often think I should purge the pantry like you did, but my kids wouldn't know what hit them! I am always on the hunt for healthy snacks. It is hard to find something that is both 'close to nature' and palatable to kids used to processed junk!

[Rosechef]

Spaeking of plain yogurt...got this from a magazine can't recall which. Mix 1/2 cup yogurt with 2 tsp. apple butter, 1/2 sliced banana and sprinkle of cinammon. Yum...filling and a great afternoon snack.

Rose
PS> Rosie: I've been known to squeeze a few limes now and then too! Actually, DH uses the Rose's Lime juice for his Gimlets more than I do for Cosmos. LOL!

[rosie_one]

Bethany, that is a great idea. I like it. I can tell I'm going to be following those canning threads much more closely now. I know I want to make my own jam, prepared horseradish and pickle relish and I'm sure I'll come up with more.

Jellyben, I so hear you. My kids already get left home a lot when I grocery shop. They are really good wheedlers. The hardest thing for me to avoid will be the eggos. They love those darn things and think they are a birthright. I like Annies products though. Their mac and cheese is very acceptable to my kids, especially the stuff shaped like Arthur the Aardvark's head (I'm not sure what the appeal is there...). I usually let them get one thing as a treat that they really want, even if its ugly stuff. I hate to have them get that "forbidden fruit" syndrome for the stuff I wouldn't usually buy.

I can definitely see where there will be things in the house that aren't exactly perfect. But what is?

[Clover]

Originally posted by rosie_one

Lunch today was an english muffin with a little butter canola blend, a few tablespoons of hummus and about a dozen baby carrots, plus the afore mentioned dove dark chocolate heart and water. For all the time Dr. Clower spends on dinner, he doesn't go into lunch much at all. DH wanted to know if a sandwich was o.k. or not and we both hunted through the book to find out. This reaction seems obsessive, in hindsight, exactly the opposite of what I'm hoping to achieve and makes me realize that we need to use more common sense, already. I suppose if we were French we would have known to have a sandwich, if it seems like a healthy choice and in balance with the rest of your day. If not, skip it.


You might want to check out the Lunch Is On Me archive (http://chocolateandzucchini.com/archives/cat_lunch_is_on_me.php) over at Clotilde's Chocolate and Zucchini (http://chocolateandzucchini.com) food blog. Warm fig and mozzarella sandwich sounds good to me.

[Ohioan]

Originally posted by rosie_one
Nonfat plain yogurt is good stuff. I just find it to be a little unpalatable straight out of the cup. I love it in recipes though. The stuff I tossed out was fruit flavored and full of aspartame which I'm now trying to avoid.
I hate aspartame, too. But I've found two fruit-on-the-bottom nonfat yogurts that use sugar instead: Stonyfield Farms and Horizon. Stonyfield Farms is my favorite; Horizon is a little too sweet for my taste, even when I leave the fruit and syrup at the bottom of the cup. But anyway, I've come to love the plain yogurt, usually with some of my own cut-up fresh fruit (or frozen cherries or berries when they're out of season).

Cheers,
Phoebe

[susan_foster]

Originally posted by badunnin


I also like to add a bit of homemade jam/jelly to my yoghurt - a new flavour every day, and I can mix if I wish. :) And no funky sweeteners.... I also make it a lot less sweet than what comes pre-flavoured.

I like to take unsweetened frozen berries (switch between raspberries & blackberries) and put them in a container with my measured out plain nonfat yogurt - Stonyfield, natch. By the time I'm hungry for my afternoon snack - sometime around 3 or 4 - the berries have melted and released their juice, and I mix it all together. Still has the tang - but the fruit makes it taste better!

Susan

[badunnin]

Originally posted by rosie_one
Bethany, that is a great idea. I like it. I can tell I'm going to be following those canning threads much more closely now. I know I want to make my own jam, prepared horseradish and pickle relish and I'm sure I'll come up with more.


Just as long as you don't put your horseradish and pickle relish in your yoghurt. ;) As an aside, though, I have a great recipe for piccalilly that is lovely with cold meats. :)

Susan_foster - You just found me a home for my frozen pineapple from TJs! Maybe with a little coconut milk? Yum!

[rosie_one]

Thanks for the yogurt ideas, they are all great... I especially like the ones with the apple butter (which I just love, add that to my canning list) and the frozen berries as that would keep well at the office. DH's office, while fine in many respects, has a very controlling food service contract. They are not even allowed to have "food related appliances" in the departments which includes common refrigerators and even coffee pots. Definitely a challenge to brown bag it there, they want you to eat in the cafeteria.

Dinner last night went very well. We chose a restaurant that we thought was "bistro" in style purposefully so that our dinner could be in courses and more leisurely. We started out with philo cups stuffed with feta, artichoke hearts and mushrooms. We each ate two, which were quite small, maybe two bites each. Very tasty. For the main I chose seared scallops with a seafood risotto, DH had Osso Buco. (link! if you aren't familiar with this dish (http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_20913,00.html) ) Both were outstanding. I ate about 1/3 of my dish, DH about 1/3 of his and we took the rest home. Honestly, it wasn't that difficult, even though the meals were wonderful, as we were really wanted to be a little bit hungry for dessert. We each had a glass of wine with dinner too. I had a Babitch Sauvignon Blanc (from New Zeland) that was great and he had a Zinfandel, equally yummy, that I unfortunately can't remember the name of.

Dessert was wonderful too. We split a piece of carrot cake cheesecake and had a cup of coffee. It was a moderate sized piece, maybe five or six bites each. We left feeling satisfied but not at all stuffed. Our waitress was quite busy and she apologized at the end of the meal that there were longer than usual breaks between our courses. Usually if that happens we get a little restless, but this time we didn't even notice.

So far, I'm feeling very good. My tight pants are fitting a little better and DH says the same. He definitely feels that he is eating less with absolutely no hunger, which is a huge deal for him. I haven't stepped on the scale yet this week, which is a big departure for me, usually I'm an every day weigher. Also, I'm not getting the energy lag that came with WW for me. Especially while on the core plan, I was absolutely dragging. I could only do that one for 10 days until I'd had enough.

[wallycat]

I too have gotten used to eating plain yogurt with frozen berries.
When I weaned myself from the processed stuff, I would use honey to sweeten the yogurt...good antioxidants in honey :)

You may want to check out Dr. WEil's website today...question of the day is about French and their eating habits :D
and a past question asks about a review of the other "fad" diets out there which he discuses in a short paragraph.

[juliew]

Rosie,

I am happy to hear that this works not only for you, but for your husband as well. I can't see us doing this sort of thing every night as we just aren't home together often enough, but it is something I might want to try on weekends. I am still not sure how my husband will handle smaller portions. He has this mental idea of how much food he needs to eat to be full, that is probably out of proportion, as he is overweight. But if one man can be satisfied with the portions, maybe he can too!

[RebeccaT]

Originally posted by Clover

You might want to check out the Lunch Is On Me archive (http://chocolateandzucchini.com/archives/cat_lunch_is_on_me.php) over at Clotilde's Chocolate and Zucchini (http://chocolateandzucchini.com) food blog. Warm fig and mozzarella sandwich sounds good to me.

Rosie, I second the recommendation to check out the Chocolate and Zucchini web blog. As a French woman's (English!) food blog, it could give you some great insight (and recipes!) into the way they eat over there. The reverence she feels for food is really inspirational.

[rosie_one]

Julie, Good luck! I hope it works for you and your guy too. Over the years I feel like we have been much more effective at weight loss when we do it together. It never seems to work when we go it alone. The keys for my DH with this plan are 1) he read much of the book too and "got it" pretty well before we started 2) he needs a little fat to feel sated enough at lunch to take him through the rest of the day, not huge amounts but a little 3) at dinner the first course needs to be substantial enough that it takes that voracious edge off of his hunger. 4) His portion sizes do need to be larger than mine, but I had to figure out how much larger, kind of tricky. At first he was worried, that this would put weight on him instead of take it off. For him though it's been even more successful than for me. Last night he talked about being so relieved over the last few days not to be living with that hunger/guilt thing. I think it had been hanging over him a long time.

Thanks Wallycat for that tip. I was happy to read that Dr. Weil is pretty supportive of this general idea. Here's the link to Dr. Weil's response. I think it makes a lot of sense. link! (http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA330188/) Enjoy, don't go overboard, use common sense and limit the amount of processed foods. I also had fun perusing the rest of his site, especially this bit about hangovers. :) link! (http://forums.drweil.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=drwQA&msg=1461.1&ctx=0) Not that I need it this morning, but you never know. The thought of Dr. Weil all tipsy on sake is kind of funny too.

Bethany, I'd love that picalilly recipe. Yum.

So, we are travelling to our cottage "up nordt" this weekend for a little winter fun. They have a lot of snow up there I hear. I think we've decided to skip dinner out tomorrow night in hopes of getting up there before the next round of snow dumping begins tonight. Therefore, I need meal plans to travel through lunch on Sunday. I expect we'll do dinner out on the way home Sunday evening. The kitchen up there is just fine for the basics, but not gourmet by any stretch. I don't have a ton of spices for example.
So, here's the plan thus far:

Friday:

Breakfast - yogurt, granola and a banana
Lunch - Leftover scallops and risotto, apple
Dinner - 1st course - spinach and artichoke bake
Entree - Stuffed shells with DHs marinara, peas and pine nuts, garlic toasts (or rosemary foccacia, if I have time to make it this afternoon)
Cheese, caraway white cheddar and creamy havarti
Dessert - coffee and chocolate

Saturday:

Breakfast - cereal and english muffins, grapefruit
Lunch - Veggie omlette with cheese, hummus and flatbread, (toast and scrambled eggs for the kids) oranges
Dinner - 1st course - spinach salad with bacon, feta and apples
entree - roast chicken, more rosemary foccacia and broccolini
Cheese, more of last night's selection
Dessert - banana bread and coffee

Sunday - banana bread, yogurt and fruit
Lunch - chicken salad on small rolls, honeybells, chips (experiment here... I love the olive oil chips and I'm hoping we can eat regular sized portions). http://www.goodhealthnaturalfoods.com/images/OOCHIPS.jpg Since dinner last night went so well, I'm hoping we can do it.

[rosie_one]

And thank you clover and rebecca for that blog link. I haven't had a chance to dive into it yet, but it sounds really good.

[SusanMac]

Rosie - one suggestion on a comment way back re: giving up Eggos. What I like to do when making pancakes is to make a double batch, then freeze most of them. Then, you have healthy (aka, no preservatives, trans fats, etc....I use the "healthy" term loosely) pancake breakfast ready to go any day of the week. You just pull a few out of the freezer & nuke them. You can probably use the toaster, although I haven't tried it. I typically wrap each one in saran wrap to prevent freezer burn, then put them all into a large zip-top baggie.

Have fun on your trip!

[rosie_one]

Chocolate and Zucchini is a great site. I loved some of her ideas, especially for summer meals and that fig an mozzarella sandwich. mmmm. Thanks for turning me on to that!

Susan, my mother used to do that trick with the pancakes for us. I had completely forgotten about it. And we love Arrowhead Mills buttermilk pancake mix, which is still on the good list. I'll have to get in the habit of doing that. :)

Been pondering the spectrum of hunger today.

Starving
Ravenous
Hungry
Peckish
Sated, for a bit
Content, for a few hours
Full
Stuffed
"No, not one more wafer thin mint!"

I think it's good if I can manage to avoid the bottom and top two or three categories. Stick to the middle of the spectrum and I'm are a whole lot less likely to make poor choices with my food. Learning to recognize that Content level and tapering off at that point is very important too. I think it's easy to blow right past it if I'm not paying enough attention.

[beacooker]

Originally posted by rosie_one

"No, not one more wafer thin mint!"


But, sir, its only wafer thin!

[Beth H]

Chocolate and Zucchini is a great site. I loved some of her ideas, especially for summer meals and that fig an mozzarella sandwich. mmmm. Thanks for turning me on to that!

I love that site as well - thanks for telling us about it, Rebecca. If I won the lottery, I would love to buy an apartment in Paris and live there part of each year.

[Arete]

SusanMac's suggestion about freezing your own pancakes or waffles is excellent. We always make extras, let them cool completely on a wire rack, then put them in a ziplock freezer bag. I don't wrap them separately, and they do stick together a big, but are easy to pry apart. If we're having them as an "on the go" snack, we nuke them for 10-20 seconds, then put them in the toaster just to get a little crispy.

[Clover]

Originally posted by rosie_one
Chocolate and Zucchini is a great site. I loved some of her ideas, especially for summer meals and that fig an mozzarella sandwich. mmmm. Thanks for turning me on to that!


Clotilde used to post here on the BB before she started her blog, so there's a "we knew her when" connection. It's given me a proprietory pride in her success.

[Beth H]

Clotilde used to post here on the BB before she started her blog, so there's a "we knew her when" connection.

Wow - that's cool.

[Aubergine]

just now, catching up with the thread after a 3-day absence, i saw the references to the "French Women Don't Get Fat" book, and right away, thought No! that's not true.

i think everyone's image of "french women" are Parisiennes, and they are as untypical of 'french women' as the women i see in manhattan compared against the ones i see where i live.

there has long been a culture of deprivation/starvation among stylish french females in order to fit into more 'elegant' clothing lines. if this gives you a problem, think about italy.

there is a famous french saying, "les hommes sortent avec les minces, et rentrent avec les rondes," which, loosely translated, means "men like to be seen with a thin woman on their arm, but go home to a voluptuous one."

[shumanata]

This is a really interesting discussion! I agree with what Aubergine said, there certainly are fat women in France - it is true, to my experience, that there are much LESS obese people in general. When I was there I just didn't see many fat people... a few, but the general population is much smaller than I see here...

It seems to me that portion size really is the main issue. Of the multi-course meals I had in France, none of them left me feeling stuffed. And a scoop of ice cream is VERY different than here...it's usually the size of a golf ball, not a softball (although you can get Nutella crêpes bigger than your head...those are for the tourists, I guess! In any case they are DANGEROUS!).

[karenv]

Well, after reading a percentage of the posts, I must agree with the French. Have you ever really seen as many obese frenchmen or women compared to the americans? I have to say no. The french live in a very healthy and real society. They are who they are and don't care about image. We here in the US care too much, therefore have to "diet" all the time and starve ourselves of food or things we enjoy. The word "die" is in diet. If we all stopped eating fast food, processed frozen dinners, and the "light" varieties and just ate in moderation and EXERCISED we would be ok. How many of you with out a health condition have snow blowers? - get out and shovel. How many of you have tread mills or someother sort of exersice equip. in their home and don't use it? Walk - enjoy the fresh air. Cleaning staff in the home? Do it yourself. I am out of the door at 6:15 a.m and in the house by 6:30 p.m. (tutoring, etc) and I still clean my own house. We are tooooo lazy and take everything for granted.
Granted I am 36 and weigh about 115 in the winter. My job keeps me on my feet (teacher), I ski, ride horses, garden and eat healthy. I don't eat fast food - cheaper to make it at home and bring it to work and my food is 500 times better. I don't understand what we americans are doing to ourselves.

Sorry, I just had to put in my two cents.

[badunnin]

Wow Karen - talk about painting with broad strokes. I walk everywhere I can, ride my bike to the market (weather permitting, and sometimes when it's not), run or walk or ski 4 days a week (yes, outside), am on my feet all day long, etc etc. And get this... I own a treadmill and don't use it. I have a *gasp* snowblower. We get a cleaning lady in my home. The reason I hire her is not because I don't want to do it myself, or I don't have the time, but because I have the money and the option to spend my time doing things I truly enjoy, like spending time with friends and family. But that apparently makes me toooo lazy. :rolleyes: I'm glad you are so proud and accomplished and better than the rest of us.

[veschke]

I gave in and ordered the book -- it's janvier and I could use a little joie. :-) I'll report back once it arrives, though it looks like it might take a few weeks.

In the meantime, thanks for stimulating so much thought. It's awfully easy for cooking and eating (and so much else) to become mechanical, just a part of the day that has to be gotten through -- better to actually live.

[Hazel Nutt]

French Women Don't Get Fat....www.mireilleguiliano.com

I found this book while browsing on Amazon and had to have it just because of the title. As soon as I started reading it I realized that this was the way I used to think and eat when I was really thin..Mostly common sense and learning to appreciate and enjoy meals instead of just shoveling food into our mouths. This approach to eating is already working for me. Eating at home more and using a nice tablecloth and candles is easy and makes the meal feel special. Kids love the candles. I agree with other posters about using smaller plates. I try to use salad plates or dinner plates with an extra wide rim.
You might find that you don't want more than a few bites of a really rich dessert or rich dark chocolate. Whereas its too easy to wolf down a lot of fat free cookies or milk chocolate. And wearing a pedometer might help to remind us to take more steps. Sorry this post is so long so I'll end with a quote I stumbled across by Julia Child. I'm afraid its not politically correct but that was Julia.

People are afraid of French food because of the cream and butter. But you don't see all those big, fat people over there who are lumbering around Disney World.
Julia Child

[kwormann]

I ordered this book from Half.com....I got it today and cant wait to dig in!!!

[blazedog]

In all seriousness, why do you want to spend money on a book that is basically telling you stuff you already know --

Slow down - eat mindfully
Stretch out meals
exercise portion control
etc. :D

I am not knocking eating this way at all but to my cynical mind, it is the standard good nutritional advice that can be summed up in a paragraph but now has been wrapped up in a "package" that is seems more enticing -- people imagine French food as being very indulgent -- in the same way they picture Italian food.

Is this really a revelation to anyone?

[sneezles]

Originally posted by blazedog
In all seriousness, why do you want to spend money on a book that is basically telling you stuff you already know --

Probably for many of the same reasons that people join Weight Watchers! The same principles apply there...you know what to do yet you pay money every week to let someone weigh you!

[rosie_one]

Blazedog - You are absolutely right. I could have done this all on my own, if I had known where to start, but I didn't. The book helped me to figure it out, sort through the information and put it into practice. I feel like it was $11 well spent. I suggested that others purchase it if they were interested because, well, I just don't want folks to take my personal view of this as their primary source. It's only my personal experience. I'm not a weight loss expert at all and I would feel bad if I somehow missed something and sent someone off in the wrong direction.

And yes, believe it or not, this was a real revalation to me. Sure, a lot of this is common sense. But I'd never tied it all together before. I'd been buying into the low fat, WW thing and it just wasn't working for me anymore. All that reading and working at my diet I spent a lot of time thinking about what I ate but I had not really considered the pace at which I ate. The fact that I might slow down, eat a little more richly and feel a lot more satisfied with less just plain didn't hit home to me. I've heard it before, sure, but never really had it spelled out for me, exactly how to plan my meals so that they are a slow and pleasurable experience. Call me a little slow :) but I just couldn't put all these pieces together on my own.

My weekend was awesome. :) We got about 8 inches of fluffy white snow on Friday night and into Saturday and had a ball playing around in it. My menus went well. I'll come back later and post a few recipes. And a few challenges too.

Thanks, you guys, for all the great discussion and recommendations. :) You're cool. :cool:

[Grace]

rosie, I'm just lurking on this thread, but want you to know that I'm thoroughly enjoying reading all about your experiences! From the menus to how you and your DH are feeling and your progress. Thanks for taking the time to post and keep it going! :D

I've been on this board for 5 years, and it's not often a topic that hasn't been discussed to death pops up. This is definitely one of them and I'm intrigued and enjoying finding something new and interesting yet again. Thanks again.

[stefania4]

This has been SUCH an interesting thread. I've wanted to check it out for a while, but just haven't had the time and finally decided to devote some attention to it.

I'm just curious - is there any discussion about economy/$ guilt in the book? I would love to have just a smidgen of chocolate cake, but a) couldn't possibly eat the whole cake before it would spoil, and b) would quickly go broke buying the $5 slices at the local coffee shop.

I'm looking forward to reading more about your journey (and your DH's) on this plan!

[CompassRose]

Originally posted by stefania4
I would love to have just a smidgen of chocolate cake, but a) couldn't possibly eat the whole cake before it would spoil, and b) would quickly go broke buying the $5 slices at the local coffee shop.
Which was precisely the reason I bought this (http://community.cookinglight.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66566) (I'm shameless -- but it was).

You can also, you know, slice up cake, freeze it in slices on a tray, then separate the individual slices with waxed paper and put them in a box/dish in the freezer.

[vbak]

Bethany, I agree with you on this one. I don't have a treadmill, but I go to the Y 4 times a week. I clean my own house, cook all of our meals.[because I can make better food at home and I hate spending the money out] and I am on my feet all day too, Teachers NEVER sit down. Fast food? I can't remember the last time I had any. Karen, when I was your age, I weighed the same as you do now, and I am also the same height, but wait til the BIG M hits you!:mad: No, I am not obese by any means; I wear a loose size 10, but the weight creeps up on you and you have to watch what you put into your mouth continously. Don't be so quick to judge people .

[rosie_one]

Thanks, Grace and Stefania... I'm glad you guys are enjoying.

So, almost the end of week one and my pants are definitely fitting better. I feel like I've lost that "bloaty" feeling. I'm certain my salt intake has been a lot lower than usual this week, so I wonder if that has something to do with it? Maybe it's just water weight rather than real live blubber loss? Either way, I'll take it. :D I also have a pretty good energy level, which is something I often struggle with while I'm losing weight, so I'm happy about that.

DH has definitely lost a few pounds already. He's very happy as he was really wanting to get rid of that little bit of holiday weight he had left. I'm, honestly, a little titch concerned as I know that weight that comes off really quickly tends to go back on really quickly and I'd very much like this to be a long run sustainable thing. I'm thinking of very slightly upping DHs portion sizes at dinner and definitely going to encourage him to bring a mid-afternoon snack, which isn't exactly French, but it gets him through his longer afternoons.

A very challenging thing has been shifting our kids into the timing of our meals. This proved much more difficult at our cottage where there is a great room rather than a real dining room. They think they are done after the first course and get antsy. Then they are REALLY done after the second course. Also, at 5 and 7 they don't have nearly as much food on their plates and eat more quickly than we do, despite our "savoring" encouragement and so are ready to bolt while we are in the middle of our entrées. The whole point of the meal is to be relaxed, and two jumpy, goofy, antsy kids fooling with their empty plates and each other just doesn't do that for me. I find myself doing more kid directing than eating, which I really dislike. I've been letting them be excused at this point, we eat the rest of our entrées, enjoy the cheese and the rest of our wine and then invite them back for dessert. It's not ideal, I wish they could hang out with us and chat when they are finished. But by that time of the night they are both kind of tired and I just feel like it's a battle not worth fighting. I hope as they get older, they'll be more engaged.

Tonight was kind of an unusual meal, we decided to do more of a "peasant" dinner and (not French at all or typical of our household) watch the Patriot's game while we ate. DH grew up out East so he is a big fan. We have a nice big Japanese style coffee table in our living room and in the winter we eat there once or twice a month, usually watching the fire in the fireplace rather than the TV. The kids love this. The starter was a bruschetta: red pepper pesto, fresh basil, fresh mozzarella and a little grated Parmesan. The Entrée was a really great soup, I'll post in a minute and a sushi roll. We just were not into the cheese course tonight. I don't know why, usually we look forward to it. Dessert was mini canolli I found at the bakery. They were great!

Here's the soup. Another of DHs favorites.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Black and White Bean Soup

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 4 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories :

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 slice bacon -- apple wood smoked
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 onion -- chopped
3 cloves garlic -- chopped
1 teaspoon cumin
3 teaspoons chili powder
1/4 teaspoon chipotle chile powder
1/2 teaspoon oregano
1 can black beans, canned -- 15 oz, pureed
1 can great northern beans
4 teaspoons sour cream

In medium sized soup pot over medium heat fry the slice of bacon, set aside, cook onion in bacon fat for 5 minutes. Stir in garlic, cumin, oregano, chipotle and chili powder and allow the seasonings to warm about 1 minute. Puree can of black beans in food processor, add to pot. Add remaining can of beans, draining 1/2 the liquid. Crumble the slice of bacon and add it to the soup. Reduce heat, simmer for 15 minutes, stirring often. Season to taste. Garnish with chopped tomatoes and sour cream.

A few words about dessert. It's been very easy to find things that work well. Those mini-canolli are great. There are also lots of desserts, including chocolate cake, that can be baked in ramekins for smaller servings. I need to check out that small batch baking book. Thanks for posting that suggestion! However, my absolute favorite dessert is those little Dove dark chocolate miniatures. Two of those are perfect with a little decaf.

I'll write briefly about another really successful meal from this weekend. Breakfast yesterday was wonderful. Yogurt, banana bread and coffee. I tried the suggestion posted above about mixing apple butter and bananas with plain yogurt and a little sugar. This was wonderful!! I just loved the tang of the plain yogurt with the sweetness of the fruit and jam. My favorite banana bread isn't the traditional version. It's actually got almost a baking powder biscuit flavor in there, not terribly sweet, but very good. This particular loaf was a mixture of banana and pear.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Banana Bread

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories :

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 cups flour
2 teaspoons baking powder
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup brown sugar
2/3 cup mashed banana -- very ripe
1 egg -- beaten
1 cup milk
2 Tablespoons canola oil -- or melted butter

Add the dry ingredients to a medium mixing bowl. Whisk lightly to combine. Stir in the fruit. In another small bowl combine egg, milk and oil or butter. Pour wet ingredients into dry and stir until just mixed. Don't over-mix.

Pour into a 9 x 9 square, greased pan and bake at 425 for 20-25 minutes.

Description:
"not too sweet, feel free to sub other soft or chopped fruit for the banana"

[jellyben]

Originally posted by sneezles


Probably for many of the same reasons that people join Weight Watchers! The same principles apply there...you know what to do yet you pay money every week to let someone weigh you!

I think for many they need a little external motivation to help them accomplish their goals. If I needed to lose weight I would have to rely on some such program. Sure, I know what to do, but that doesn't mean I am going to do it!

[rosie_one]

The community thing does help keep you motivated and accountable. Definitely part of the reason you are hearing all this stuff on this thread! :)

Meal planning time and putting together a grocery list.

Todoay, Yogurt, fruit and granola for breakfast. Open faced engligh muffin "sandwiches" for lunch, with a honeybell.

Dinner:
Starter - DH loved the bruschetta last night and wants a repeat
Entree - Coconut Shrimplink! (http://community.cookinglight.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69526&highlight=coconut+shrimp), Wild rice with dried cranberries, grapefruit, edamame.
Cheese - Havarti and Cheddar
Dessert - ice cream

Tuesday - YFG breakfast (can you tell I enjoy this?). Quick tomato soup and bread for lunch, fruit. Out for dinner after an appt. with the lawyer about drawing up some wills, uch, I hate dealing with my own potential mortality.

Wednesday - English muffin with PB and honey. Milk. Lunch, Leftover something? Or a roasted veggie burger on 1/2 an engligh muffin with mayo, spinach and sauteed onions.
Dinner:
Starter - Spinach Salad
Entree - Ravioli (this is a little bit of a cheat here... my best friend gave us a bunch of diferent ravioli and sauces from freshpasta.com for Christmas. They really aren't ideal ingredients wise, but I can't bring myself to toss them either as they look great and were such a thoughtful gift so... moderation right?) and Broccolini
Cheese
Coffee and Ginger Biscotti for dessert. link! (http://www.megaheart.com/kit_biscotti_ginger.html)

[sneezles]

Originally posted by jellyben


I think for many they need a little external motivation to help them accomplish their goals. If I needed to lose weight I would have to rely on some such program. Sure, I know what to do, but that doesn't mean I am going to do it!

I understand that completely! I was trying to say that the book would be the same type of tool for some. Some people are self motivated but the book would be the guidleines needed to establish an eating plan.

[ClaraB]

Originally posted by badunnin
Wow Karen - talk about painting with broad strokes. I walk everywhere I can, ride my bike to the market (weather permitting, and sometimes when it's not), run or walk or ski 4 days a week (yes, outside), am on my feet all day long, etc etc. And get this... I own a treadmill and don't use it. I have a *gasp* snowblower. We get a cleaning lady in my home. The reason I hire her is not because I don't want to do it myself, or I don't have the time, but because I have the money and the option to spend my time doing things I truly enjoy, like spending time with friends and family. But that apparently makes me toooo lazy. :rolleyes: I'm glad you are so proud and accomplished and better than the rest of us. Bethany - I think what Karen was trying to get at was the American habit of being very sedentary and labor-saving, then spending lots of money to exercise, rather than making physical activity part of your daily life. It honestly sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of, well, being active, which I think was her point (even if you do have a maid and a treadmill ;) ).

[SusanMac]

How do you guys feel about having dessert every single day? Even though the idea is to keep it very tiny so you just have a taste or two, I really don't like being in the habit of "needing" something sweet after every meal. If I find myself getting that way, I stop having late night hot chocolate (or whatever) so I don't always have something sweet. I just figure it's not a good habit to get into because it's extra, not necessary, typically not healthy, etc.

What do you think?

[RebeccaT]

Rosie, are you a SAH mom? Or WAH? Do you think this plan is doable if you work outside the home, and do not get home to start dinner until 6:30 or 7? :o

This is an honest question. I am having a hard time imagining it, but maybe it would be possible with more planning. Maybe the book addresses it?

[blazedog]

Originally posted by SusanMac
How do you guys feel about having dessert every single day? Even though the idea is to keep it very tiny so you just have a taste or two, I really don't like being in the habit of "needing" something sweet after every meal. If I find myself getting that way, I stop having late night hot chocolate (or whatever) so I don't always have something sweet. I just figure it's not a good habit to get into because it's extra, not necessary, typically not healthy, etc.

What do you think?

Whatever plan it's called in terms of the vogue diet of the month, most "diets" that are well balanced provide for a small percentage of one's calories (or points or whatever you call them) to be used for indulgences.

There is the 90/10 plan which allows you to spend 10% of your calories on treats - whatever they are

There is WW in which (if you are working it correctly), a few points are left over after eating one's appropriate nutritional needs (fruits, veggies, dairy, whole grains etc.) to use for a treat.

A planned sweet after dinner can be helpful if it "closes" the act of eating symbolically. Also, most nutritionists recommend eating six times a day (i.e. breakfast, lunch, dinner with planned snacks mid morning, mid afternoon and after dinner). This is because your blood sugar will typically drop about 2 to 3 hours after eating. If you don't let yourself be famished - - mid morning etc. and eat a planned snack, you will be in better control at lunch, dinner.

So personally I would say go ahead and indulge as long as you have allocated the calories and aren't eating mindlessly. Most reasonable diet plans recommend it as behavior that is sustainable for the rest of your life because it is in line with how your body metabolizes food as well as people's general psychology -- a small planned indulgence which you are in control of will prevent feeling of deprivation and feeling out of control.

Obviously psychology and metabolism is complex though or we would all be able to fit into our size 4 jeans effortlessly :D

[sneezles]

Originally posted by SusanMac
How do you guys feel about having dessert every single day? ...I just figure it's not a good habit to get into because it's extra, not necessary, typically not healthy, etc.

What do you think?

My DH and I were raised by mothers who served dessert with every dinner. My mother did all her baking in one day (pies, cakes, cookies). I'm not sure what DH's mother did. To this day my DH has to have something sweet after dinner and usually it's 3 Oreos...I would have to eat 10 or 15 :p ...

By the time I got into high school I quit eating dessert. I wasn't overweight or out of shape but even waaaaaay back then magazines were touting skinny body types!! I, at the time, was 5'10" and 135 pounds but all my friends were shorter and weighed less but I didn't understand that my weight was great for my height.

[jellyben]

Originally posted by SusanMac
How do you guys feel about having dessert every single day? Even though the idea is to keep it very tiny so you just have a taste or two, I really don't like being in the habit of "needing" something sweet after every meal. If I find myself getting that way, I stop having late night hot chocolate (or whatever) so I don't always have something sweet. I just figure it's not a good habit to get into because it's extra, not necessary, typically not healthy, etc.

What do you think?

Personally, I do not have a big sweet tooth, so I would not want to cut back on the actual dinner to save calories for chocolate. Once in a while I like to indulge, but I just can't picture eating dessert daily.

[CompassRose]

My take is it's not important to have something sweet after dinner if that's not a priority for you. The point is to fully enjoy whatever it is you eat. If really enjoying your foodie life means having dessert or a sweet, then you savour a small portion of something good, not a penitential helping of sugar-free pudding or low-fat snack cake. But if you aren't a "sweets" person, there's no earthly reason why your little indulgence couldn't instead be a glass of liqueur and some nuts, or an extra sliver of the cheese course, or whatever!

[gracey]

I have shamelessly lurked on this thread because I really think it is an interesting topic. I am caving now and posting my experiences too.

I started eating this way about a year ago -- with great results. I am smaller now than I have been in years and have a lot less guilt tied to food. My last doctor visit gave me better numbers in weight, blood pressure, and blood work than I ever had during the low-fat food years. I changed over to the more mindful, whole food way simply because the lowfat way wasn't working and I felt dreadful. I also decided I wasn't much fun at restaurants.

Of course it is all common sense and portion control and everything else already mentioned. However, I have to agree with rosie_one that the enjoyment factor is definitely increased and the days of worrying over which cream cheese to buy are gone. I find I really eat less overall when I managed to up the satisfaction level. Really good chocolate really does beat Snackwell's any day.

As for the dessert everyday question, I eat a dessert "course" for both lunch and dinner -- sometimes something as simple as biscotti, but I know I can have it if I want it. Determining whether or not you really want it seems to be key.

I also have to confess to not being an exercise junky -- I walk everyday simply because I have a dog with way more energy than I do. Gyms and I don't get along, but I think some sort of activity every day is the right way to go.

I really look forward to seeing this thread continue -- keep us posted rosie_one!

[rosie_one]

Rebecca, that is a good question. I am a SAHM and one who has a reasonable amount of time (and interest) to devote to meal planning and cooking. The book doesn't really address that side of time management very well. The French generally work a much shorter and less stressful day that we do in America and I could see where that would be an issue. If you get home at 7, you are going to want dinner on the table very quickly.

However, that said, if you plan your meals and shop ahead, and then have the first course ready (something like a soup you just heat up, sushi you bring home with you or a salad you've prepared ahead and left in the fridge) might be a good thing. You could sit down and eat something to take that edge off of your day almost immediately while your entree cooks, then plate the entree doing the last minute things between courses(which I do too). It would take prep. but then maybe you wouldn't have that crazed half an hour at the end of the day when you throw together something haphazard while you are starving, which is what I used to do while I was working and I absolutely hated.

I, honestly, haven't changed what I cook that much at all, I am still making many of my favorites (lots of them CL recipes, of course), some of which I made while I was working and could fairly easily be put together in the crock pot or very quickly. I can see how it would be possible, but it would really depend on your circumstances.

The crunch, to me, would be if you get home at 7, spend 2+ hours at dinner... you can't do much before bedtime. But maybe that is a good thing if your job is really intense? Having a really relaxed evening. I don't know. Maybe I'm being a polyanna, but I could see where it might be possible. If I were to go back to work, at this point, I would definitely try to make it work, since I like it so much. I suppose it would really depend on the individual situation. If you do try it, please let us know how it goes.


Dessert - I love the stuff. And will no matter what happens. We, actually, don't have it every night. I plan it, along with some cheese, every night, but sometimes we skip it if we are full or just aren't in the mood. Which is truly amazing if you knew the bounds of my sweet tooth. ;) Somehow, knowing that it is a possibility every day, makes it a little less of a demon for me. But, I must admit, that I love having the opportunity to be creative with sweets again. Those biscotti are going to be really good! Even if I only make 1/2 a batch and freeze most of them.

[RebeccaT]

Rosie, I do think I might try some of these principles, but I don't know about all of them at the moment.

I am already, since I am pregnant, eating more luxuriously, if you will, than I have in years. And yes, I find it more fulfilling (and more filling, which is important since I'm always hungry!) I have been menu planning for about 4 years now, and when we are both home for dinner (about 3 times a week) I do cook a full meal, even if I did get home late. The things I think I would find difficult are not so much the main entree, which I do already, with veggies and sides. It's having an appetizer, or homemade bread (we hardly ever eat bread at home, because I hate to buy it and don't have time to make it. Plus we throw it out - 2 people can't make much of a dent in a loaf of bread unless we eat more of it than we should!). Having a dessert wouldn't be hard, because there are a lot of "little bites" that I could put together, and we already tend to have a piece of fruit or a piece of chocolate as dessert most nights.

Also, as you said, lingering over dinner for two hours when you don't sit down until 8 or later would be tough. Not unheard of in our house (DH and I like to talk!) but not a nightly occurance. We usually sit for about 45 minutes.

I do think that I am going to start with salads. Starting small, I know. :) But I really want us to eat more salad, and I tend to spend so much energy on the rest of dinner that, when it's 10 minutes until it's served and I am thinking about salad, I tend to scrap it altogether. If I start actually having a salad course, and serving it first, then a) I could spend a little time on it and not neglect the rest of dinner, and b) I might fill up a little on it and not eat quite as much of my entree. I talked to DH about it, and he's game to try it. Not this week, b/c he's out of town, but I'll try it next week.

[annagins]

Originally posted by SusanMac
How do you guys feel about having dessert every single day? Even though the idea is to keep it very tiny so you just have a taste or two, I really don't like being in the habit of "needing" something sweet after every meal. If I find myself getting that way, I stop having late night hot chocolate (or whatever) so I don't always have something sweet. I just figure it's not a good habit to get into because it's extra, not necessary, typically not healthy, etc.

What do you think?

Well, if you have a healthy diet otherwise and no medical problems, I don't see the harm in having small desserts every day -- especially if they offer some nutrition, e.g. a little ice cream rather than Sweet Tarts. Life is short, so why not make it a little sweet?

I do understand your worries about dependency, though. I feel this way about other things.

Guess it really depends on whether you are using sugar to cope. Some people do.

[Beth H]

The French generally work a much shorter and less stressful day that we do in America and I could see where that would be an issue.

Plus, (sweeping generalization ahead :)) French people tend to eat a lot later than Americans. Restaurants in Paris don't even open for dinner until 7:30 or 8 at night, and seemingly don't get busy until 9 and later. So - I'm guessing that home meals are the same. If you're not eating until 8:30, and get home from work at 5, you have a lot of time to prepare food!

And - they do have a mandated shorter work week than Americans (something like 35 hours a week).

[Grace]

Yeah, and 6 weeks of vacation - that's a whole week every other month. A lot of time to relax and enjoy your food! :D

[rosie_one]

Rebecca, congratulations! I didn't realize you were pregnant. :) How wonderful. You have a whole lot of changes coming your way. The next two years are likely to be a real rollercoaster but, I'll bet you can work in a few salads without harm. ;)

Originally posted by Beth H


Plus, (sweeping generalization ahead :)) French people tend to eat a lot later than Americans. Restaurants in Paris don't even open for dinner until 7:30 or 8 at night, and seemingly don't get busy until 9 and later. So - I'm guessing that home meals are the same.

See, here is one of the things I don't get and isn't addressed in the book at all. Maybe someone can clarify for me. If you don't eat dinner until 8 or 9, how can you go without snacking between lunch and dinner? 8 hours without anything seems like a long time to me. I'd be famished.

[RebeccaT]

I always have wondered if the French (and Europeans in general) eat out later, but when eating at home they eat earlier. Eating out is such a social event in Europe, it's the main event of the evening, not just the thing you do before the main event. I can't imagine that they wait to feed their children until 9PM, when they have to go to school the next day!

[SusanMac]

Aahhh...that's where the apertifs come in! A champagne cocktail or two hits the spot before a late-night dinner :-)

Re: the daily dessert thing, I think annagins hit the nail on the head, for me anyway. The part I dislike is the dependency or the "craving" part. I'm not a huge sweets person anyway. So, if I find myself craving something sweet after dinner consistently, I figure something is wrong & I need to correct it. I'm not saying that dessert is bad, but I don't like the idea of craving it every day. That means something's wrong (for me anyway). I do, however, have a huge cheese fetish. Last summer I craved having a bit of cheese every afternoon. So, I really worked to break that habit. Now, if I have some, it's enjoyable. But, I'm not craving it, which I think is a much, much healthier attitude. For me, it's not a matter of diet guidelines (I'm not counting WW points or even trying to lose weight, to be honest), it's just a matter of staying healthy both physically & mentally.

[rosie_one]

ooo, so I give my kids a champagne cocktail or two and they'll be better with a late dinner?? Great idea! Just kidding. ;)

Rebecca, that is a good point though. Do they feed ze Bebes and put them to bed before the grown up dinner or what?

[Rosechef]

Regarding the question about eating later in the evening. I can tell you that the Spainiards do eat a later dinner. DH travels to Spain 6-7 times a year on business and LOVES the way dinner is served and is such a social event (lunch too!). He is there right now and just phones to say it is 8PM and he has 2 more hours until dinner! Yes, they'll be eating at 10PM tonight. I'd be falling asleep in my soup! LOL!

Seriously though, we lived in Mexico City for 3 years and most restuarants don't even open until 7:30 PM. We always ate a later dinner, even at home. I'd feed my then 2 1/2 yr old his dinner and later we would sit for dinner. It was just the culture and we adopted it. I can't recall what we did in between lunch and dinner...I'm sure there were snacks involved, but there was much less processed food so we ate more fruit and breads/tortillas. I will say, I never gained weight the whole time I lived there. Go figure. Of course, once NAFTA went thru (1992-93) there was a glut of fast food places that opened up. I couldn't say things are the same there now, more than 10 yrs later.

[veschke]

If you don't eat dinner until 8 or 9, how can you go without snacking between lunch and dinner?

Maybe they have a snack. :-) (I get up at five, so eating dinner at nine is out of the question -- heck, that's bedtime! Sounds like a very different lifestyle.)

[karenv]

Originally posted by ClaraB
Bethany - I think what Karen was trying to get at was the American habit of being very sedentary and labor-saving, then spending lots of money to exercise, rather than making physical activity part of your daily life. It honestly sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of, well, being active, which I think was her point (even if you do have a maid and a treadmill ;) ).


YES!!! My apologies VBak, Bethany and anyone else if I came across too strong- that was not my intentions.:-(

yes, to dessert everynight even if it is a handful of chocolate chips. I need something sweet to "finish" the meal as I do for lunch too. (there is always chocolate in the building somewhere)

KarenV

[stefania4]

I do as much prep work as I can the night before, but I can't begin to imagine how DH and I could work 10-hour days and spend an hour and a half on dinner (although we do sit down to a home-cooked meal most nights). Of course we could, but we'd be up until midnight paying bills, doing laundry, straightening up, and doing all those other "life maintenance" things that we get done in the evening. I think it's a great plan for people who have the time available to devote to it, but I think there are a lot of us for whom it's just not practical.

[newcook]

Stefania4, I think that points to another trend that may not be the healthiest. I seems that work days are becoming longer and longer. It used to be that people worked 8 hours with 1 hour off for lunch and two 15 minutes breaks. But now I hear of more and more people with 10 hour work days. I have to wonder if at the end of our lives it will have been worth it.

Daniele

[rosie_one]

I decided against the planned coconut shrimp and made my first truly decadent meal since switching philosophies tonight. It was fun. :)

Starter of bruschetta, followed by asparagus, honeybells and a fettucine pasta dish. Then ice cream and coffee. Definitely not things you should eat every night, but we had small things to celebrate tonight (2 year anniversary in our house and a potential new job opportunity that is looking good) so we enjoyed.

The recipe is a family favorite of one of my close friends, and now one of ours too. Absolutely delicious. I made half a recipe for four of us and we put away quite a bit of leftovers. I also used whole wheat fettucini.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Fettuccine With Chicken in Lemon Cream Sauce

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 4 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories :

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3/4 lb dry fettuccine
1 lb boneless skinless chicken breasts
salt
fresh ground pepper
2 T butter
1 cup heavy cream (ofcourse!!!)
1 T lemon juice
1 1/2 teaspoon grated lemon zest
1/4 c grated parmesan cheese
2 T chives -- chopped


Sprinkle chicken with 1/8 teaspoon of salt and a pinch of pepper. In a medium frying pan over moderately high heat, bring 1/4 inch water to simmer. Add the chicken, cover, reduce the heat and simmer, turning once, until just cooked through (about 12 minutes). Remove chicken. When cool to touch, cut into cubes.

In medium saucepan, melt butter mover moderate heat. Add the cream, lemon juice, and zest. Bring to simmer (don't boil or will curdle). Simmer 2 minutes. Add 1 1/4 t salt and 1/4 pepper. I know it may seem like too much salt, but it isn't.

Boil pasta. Drain pasta.

Toss pasta with chicken, cream sauce, parmesan, and chives.

[alicerh]

rosie_one, I am one of the many enjoying this thread and starting to rethink the way I eat. In our newspaper, several times a week are pictures from the paper in the 50's. Without fail the women look like they have 20 inch waists and weigh 100 lbs. ( I weighed 100 lbs in 1958 too). No fast food, no huge restaurant meals, no fake foods. Just small portions of good real food. What a refreshing way to eat!!
Alice

[momwholuvs2cook]

I happen to be reading a book right now kind of along the same lines as what you all are discussing here (called Overcoming Overeating). It states that the key to *really* losing weight is to stop dieting and stop denying yourself the foods you really crave and to learn to pay attention to your bodies signals as to when you are truly hungry and *need* food. It also goes into the psychology of why diets fail and what causes bingeing. All of this (along with what I've read here) sounds all fine and well....but... I can see this working for someone slightly to moderately overweight, however, what about those of us who are (and I detest this word, but) obese? If I had the ability to eat that way, I don't think I would be where I am today. I do have the ability to eat sensibly and to commit to exercise (for awhile *sigh*) but my main problem is binge eating. I lost 40 lbs last year on WW, and have maintained that loss for the last 6 months. I just went back to WW last week to try to continue losing some more, but with all the statistics about diets failing 98% of the time....it's discouraging long term. So I'm reading this thread with great interest. I'm just curious on your thoughts about this way of eating and how it could work for those who have serious eating issues like bingeing.

[gdnr77]

I have been enjoying this thread so much, and I have been following the basics of this plan for about six months. I had over 100 pounds to lose and I have lost 36 so far. What the plan has done for me is to help me really focus on my body signals, and not be in that deprivation mode all the time. I cook a good whole foods meal, focusing on fresh, healthy, whole grain items, but not obsessing about fat. I take my time to savor every bite, and have found the benefits of sitting down at a nice table has changed our lives. We listen more to each other, we cook and plan meals together, and our life seems to be less stressful, a little more in balance. Sounds so hokey reading what I have written, but I feel so charged, energetic, and in control for the first time since I gained all my weight. And the best part is, I now eat small portions automatically, slowly, and I can take three bite of something decadent, push the rest aside, and go on about my day without obsessing about eating the whole thing. :-) I hope this plan works for you Rosie, and I will enjoy following your progress.

[rosie_one]

((Shanda)) Your weight struggle sounds like it is more than a simple "calories in = or < calories out" equation. Maybe something like this would be a good fresh start for you like it was for gdnr77, gracey and myself, but I'd guess that until you get to the root of the issue (maybe counseling?), things won't resolve completely. However, I read your post and think about that 98% failure rate... dang, that is discouraging. But, I'm glad to see you've kept that 40 lbs. off. Most people put the weight back on within a year, so you're doing really well. I don't see any reason you can't continue to do that.

*getting out the soapbox* This may be tremendously oversimplified and it is absolutely just my opinion, not hard fact (but I'm going to say it anyways :rolleyes: ). It seems to me that weight can become a real downward spiral for many people. You feel fat, go on a "diet" deny yourself, get really hungry, can't take it anymore and so binge on whatever is handy and satisfies your cravings (which are often for fat and sugar or salt), then you feel bad for doing that and even fatter, and so the cycle starts all over again. Finding a way to break that cycle isn't easy. But I think pondering that hunger spectrum and keeping yourself in the middle by eating things that really satisfy you isn't a bad thing. Your job as the keeper and primary enjoyer of your body is to figure out exactly what satisfies you and keeps you feeling healthy, not to beat yourself up and deny yourself as much as possible. Think of yourself as a child you really love and want to grow up healthy and happy, with lots of energy and knowing they are special. :) You wouldn't deny that child the joys of food, you would want them to appreciate and understand food and health and encourage them to choose wisely. Now I sound like yoda... I'd better stop. You get the idea. :)

[greysangel]

Shanda - I can only speak from this as a recovering (and relapsing) binge/compulsive eater.

First I would recommend a couple of books to you:

1. Breaking free from Compulsive Eating - Geneen Roth
2. Overcoming Binge Eating - Dr. Christopher Fairburn

The second one was particularly helpful for me as it really defined a binge and compulsive eating in mind. I started to journal compulsive moments and binge eating patterns - whether I ate "only" 100 calories of food or 1000...the "episode" and motivating factors behind it is still the same.

What is working for me right now is insulin resistance balancing (pm me if you are more interested), smaller meals and counting points. One day a week I have more of a meal (higher calorie/fat) similar to what Rosie is describing in her lifestyle change. I am trying very hard to stay away from frankenfood (protein powders, manufactured bars etc) and from sugar so that when that once a week comes, I can enjoy it and the calories balance out the compromise I am making during the week. I also exercise regularly which helps with weight loss and maintenance.

I think for people who have eating disorders, there will always be a retentive obsessive part in order to control the disease. It would be wonderful to eat like the french or to enjoy a bit of everything and anything, but in the end I think regardless of what we eat, we will always have to count it. And at the end of the day it's calories. The key is finding a dieting approach that you can live with and still lose weight.

j

[Searcher]

Rosie, I, too, am following this thread closely. How do you portion your food? I thought you said you were filling plates and bringing them to the table, are you using exact measurements, 1/2 cup veggies, etc, or are you just guestimating?
I wish you luck and am hoping you keep us this thread.

[rosie_one]

Speaking of obsessiveness... mine has been with the scale. I was, for years, and every day weigher. Part of my wanting to be in control, I felt like if I didn't have that data, I wasn't informed enough. I'm really trying to break myself of this habit. The number on the scale is just one little piece of my health and I need to keep that perspective.

So, I've decided to cut back to weekly weighings. Finally, with some anticipation, I got on the scale today. I'm down two pounds from last Tuesday, which is good. :) In hindsight though, I knew what the scale would say. I could have skipped it.

So, one week down, and I feel good. Energy level is great and I feel like I'm starting to get the swing of this. For me, week two is always more of a test with a new eating routine. I often wash out in week two if it just isn't a good match for me. The WW core plan was a good example. By the end of the second week I felt horrible. I'm not sure what the deal was, but I just couldn't go one more day eating like that. Just not for me.

[rosie_one]

Searcher, that's a good question. Figuring out portion sizes has been one of those things I've had to think about a fair amount. I'm developing my eyeball method. I definitely don't measure exactly. All four of us have really different needs and wants and I try to take those into account. I guess I have in mind the portion sizes that WW implants into your brain (a hunk o' meat or fish about the size of a deck of cards is one 3 oz. serving, a fistfull of carbs like rice is one serving etc...) as maximums, and often I'll give out even less than that since we have other courses to eat. The thing I definitely don't look at is the recommended portion size that the recipe suggests. Those vary wildly. That fettucine dish upthread, for example was supposed to serve four and in my mind it would have been enough for 8. I often cook for leftovers for my lunches and so there is always the potential for seconds, and sometimes DH will go back for more if he isn't feeling satisfied yet.

This is kind of a tangent, but one other little thing that I've found to be helpful in the slower eating process: I've started warming my plates. Food on a warm plate stays hot longer so you can savor it.

[gdnr77]

Rosie, your reply to Shanda was right on the money for me. When I was at my heaviest, the emotional merry go round I was on was downright debilitating. You almost get the mindset that you aren't worth enough to even try to lose. Then you get in that self fulfilling prophesy of, why bother folowing that diet, I'll just fail anyway. The mind can be the hardest thing to overcome. Shanda, I hope you find a way to continue to lose, and perhaps talking about the struggle is the first step. And, to keep on topic, I was so amazed how using a smaller plate, eating mindfully, listening to the signals that my body was full, savoring each morsel, became so routine to me. I work in tandem with my love of good food, not struggle against it.

[juliec]

FYI:
There is a great thread on the Weight Watchers community web site called "Conscious Eaters" who deal with this topic on a daily basis. Click on "community," then "pounds to lose" then "less to lose" and look for "conscious eaters."
Join us!

[rosie_one]

Hi Julie, welcome to the CLBB! :) Hope you'll stick around and enjoy the company.

Thanks for the direction to your WW thread. I did check it out and you all seem like nice bunch who are really supportive of each other. Amazing how many countries you represent too!


At dinner tonight I'm trying a new breadmaker recipe. It sounds wonderful. Way back upthread someone (stefania?) mentioned not baking bread as often as they would like because they couldn't go through a loaf before it went bad. I solved this dilemma for us today by using my dough function. I made half a recipe of dough then baked it into rolls. A few larger ones for hamburgers and sandwiches and a lot of smaller ones (roughly dinner roll sized) to have with my entrees. I'll freeze what we won't eat today and tomorrow.

[Searcher]

Rosie, Thanks for the serving information. I agree about not paying much attention to serving size suggestions in a recipe.

About bread, one of my very favorite breads was a Herbed Peasant Bread a store in Westport, CT used to make. I bought a loaf there recently and was so disappointed in it so I'm doubly glad now I found HayDay's cookbook that includes the recipe for this bread. I make it fairly often but never do regular sized loaves. It's not a bread that keeps well, so I found some metal mini loaf pans and bake it in those. Depending on what we're eating it can either feed one of us, or both...lately more often both of us. The other's I just flip out of the pans, wrap in plastic then store in a ziplock bag. It's about the same as making rolls but it's nice to have a change of shape now and again.

Editing to say, Welcome Julie!, nice to have you with us.

[momwholuvs2cook]

First I want to thank you all for being compassionate rather than judgemental. After I posted this last night, I thought seriously about coming back and trying to delete it because I could only imagine what some of you were thinking about me confessing something so personal. But then I tried to remember that this kind of mentality is part of what keeps me where I am. I can't possibly be the only who has this problem and through the literature that I'm currently reading, I'm trying to understand that the yo-yo diet syndrome (and binge eating) are NOT a sign of weakness and failure as I and our society have come to believe it is. In fact, it takes a lot of willpower and strength to KEEP fighting for healthier body.

rosie_one - I think you're absolutely right on track with your observations about the diet cycle. I think I've avoided trying to dig deeper into the issues of why I binge, just believing that I'm weak, and that if I could just be stronger...just have more willpower...just try harder! I believe I'm taking some of the first *real* steps toward beating this thing by finally looking beyond "the diet" as a cure-all. Many of the things that you've posted here about your new approach are very insightful and I thank you for sharing them with us. I have already started trying some of the things you've talked about.

greysangel - Thanks for the book reccomendations. I will try to find those. At this point, I tend to agree with you that for some of us, we DO have to restrict our intake in some way (such as counting points), but I think that some of the basic ideas being discussed here can really help with the process of not being so obsessed with food.

juliec - thanks for the info on the WW group, I'll drop by there and check it out.

[Linda in MO]

Originally posted by gdnr77
I was so amazed how using a smaller plate, eating mindfully, listening to the signals that my body was full, savoring each morsel, became so routine to me. I work in tandem with my love of good food, not struggle against it.
Oooh, this would be a good quote for the magazine!

[rosie_one]

You know... despite a reasonable amout of time in WW online, I never really wandered around in those community boards. It's HUGE in there. Wow. And it's amazing, whatever type of eater or dieter you are there seems to be regular thread that would match. Very cool. I've always felt like a send of "we are in this together" was really important with my weight loss goals.

Last night was interesting. My menu plans and my actual menus resemble each other, but I often do a little moving stuff around when it comes down to it. Tonight, our dinner out plans washed out (had to reschedule with the lawyer... not a big loss). So the menu plan ended up being:
Starter - spinach salad with sweet vinagrette
Entree - Garlicky Baked shrimp (a favorite WW recipe), peas and homemade rolls
Cheese - Caraway cheddar and Havarti
Dessert - Chocolate ice cream (the rest of the family had some, I enjoyed the Havarti and wasn't hungry for it)
Wine - Little Penguin Chardonnay, if you haven't tried this, it's so good and about $6.50 a bottle!

My brother joined us. He is a completely different story, foodwise. Single, 20something beer delivery guy. So a voracious eater who doesn't get a good meal that often. He usually eats what DH and I do combined at our table. I think DH had a hard time with this, watching my brother put it away... he's pretty competitive sometimes. I'm not sure what to do about that one. I think I should have reserved more for seconds. Testosterone is weird stuff.

I told my brother about this new French style eating plan. I found it interesting that, while he usually thinks our latest eating plan is um, for old people, he heartily agreed with this one. In fact, I think he really liked the longer dinner. However, being single and working 10-12 hour days isn't exactly condusive to this lifestyle.

[rosie_one]

Wednesday's are our busiest nights. DD has swimming at 5:45, a dentist appt. at 3:30 and we need to buy her a new piano book for tomorrow's lesson (nothing like leaving it to the last minute...). So, dinner will not be a long leisurely affair tonight. DH and I will split the meal. We'll have hummus, crackers and crudites with the kid's dinner and then, after the kids are in bed, around 8, we'll have the rest of our dinner. I like the Barefoot Contessa's hummus recipe. I usually end up using natural style peanut butter instead of tahini and make all kinds of variations. We especially like it with strips of roasted red pepper tossed in the mix.

Hummus

2 cups canned chickpeas, drained, liquid reserved
1.5 teaspoons kosher salt
4 garlic cloves, roughly chopped
1/3 cup tahini (sesame paste)
6 tablespoons freshly squeezed lemon juice. Don't use the bottled variety.
2 tablespoons water or liquid from the chickpeas
8 dashes Tabasco sauce


Place all the ingredients in the bowl of a food processor fitted with a steel blade. Process until the hummus is coarsely puréed. Taste for seasoning and serve chilled or at room temperature.

Yield: 2 cups. From The Barefoot Contessa Cookbook.

So, I'll consider that our first course.
Our "real" dinner entree will be quicker prep-wise too. I think Chicken tikka masala using Tiger Tiger brand masala sauce. Rice and steamed spinach. I'm finding a suprising number of products like this masala in the "imported food" aisle at the grocery that have very simple ingredients and leave out all the questionable stuff.

For dessert, I'm dreaming of very moist and delicious spice cake that incorporates carrots, crystalized ginger and apple butter with a cream cheese frosting. Hopefully it will come to reality this afternoon. It has gotten quite cold and windy here today, so it seems like a good day for baking. :)

[Rosechef]

rosie_one: Thanks for the Fettuccine with Lemon Cream Sauce recipe! Made it tonight for dinner....wonderful flavor and texture. Not too heavy, but a smaller portion goes a long way. I made a full batch for DH, DS (13 yr) and myself...I have at least 1/2 of the meal leftover. This will become a repeater in our home.

[kima]

I tried e-mailing you rosechef but it got returned. I just had some questions about Spain.:)
Would it be possible to get the Garlicky Baked Shrimp recipe? Thank you.:)

[donleyk]

Delurking here. I have really enjoyed this thread and want to wish everyone luck with it.

I did want to share a conversation I had with DH last night. He travels a lot so we don't get to share many meals together thru the week. We had nice veggie Indian meal last night. We were finishing up our wine when I went and got us both 3 dark chocolate Hershey Kisses. (A compromise on my part for portion control.) And I said NEW RULE! You can not chew them :D His reaction was HUH?!?!? But didn't chew them up, rather let it melt on his tongue and really appreciated it afterward. His exact quote was, Wow! You can really taste them. :D

Yeah! Thanks for the inspiration.

[Rosechef]

Kima....sorry! I cahnged my email address a while ago AND then we changed computers. Long story short, I had to change my "name" for the CLBB (re-register) and I can't get my new password into the system. I'll email you!

[rosie_one]

Rose, I'm so glad you liked the fetuccini recipe. The friend I begged it from has great taste. :)

Donley, it's amazing when you really taste something like that for the first time isn't it? We were wowed too. And that is my kind of experiment. :D

The Garlicky Baked Shrimp recipe has been floating around this board for a while. It's out of one of the WW books.

link! (http://community.cookinglight.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61919&highlight=garlicky+baked+shrimp) I usually make 1/2 a batch for the two of us as my kids aren't crazy about shrimp and we'll have a little leftover. It's a very scalable recipe. One note though. I was pretty amazed at the amount of chemical additives in the "plain" breadcrumbs I had purchased. Holy cow! I suppose it makes sense as breadcrumbs usually go stale after a few hours and they want them to have a shelf life of a few months. I ended up tossing the purchased ones and making my own out of some leftover garlic baugette. They were really tasty too! Use the food processor for this. I found out the hard way that using a box grater for breadcrumbs is a long and really messy process. :rolleyes:

[Rosechef]

rosie: I make my own breadvrumbs all the time! We never finish a loaf of crusty bread and I just let it sit in a ziploc for a day or so waiting to see if anyone will eat it! So, I pop it into the food processor and there you have it! I also make all my own croutons. Cube the bread and splsh on some olive oil, oregano, pepper and maybe some grated pecorino romano...put it in the over for 15 minutes or so and then store in an airtight container. It is amazing how many chemicals are in things like plain bread crumbs!

[susan_foster]

I've been following this thread with interest. I lost all my weight on WW, and have maintained for coming on three years, always counting points. Most of the time, it's not a problem - it's like a game. But then I find myself saving all my points, and then eating way too much all in one day, because they are my points - if I have them, I want to use them! It's not a healthy attitude towards food.

I think my balance may have to change - not as much obsessing over the points, a little more balance in everyday eating. I've been having a brownie every night this week - one brownie, and I count it - and for me it seems to complete the day. I don't think I'll always do that - I'd rather not go down that path again - but I think it helps me avoid eating from the vending machine when I know I have something homemade waiting for me.

Susan

[RideYourBike]

Speaking of indulging in chocolates--

Chocolate covered espresso beans are rich and lovely, plus you must chew them (for all of us dedicated masticators). The first bite cracks the bean with a satisfying crunch and releases that sweet combination of coffee and dark chocolate.

I'm actually back on my self-created "training" diet (in preparation for the upcoming bike season, of course), which consists of cutting out junk food and replacing it with mainly vegetable matter and other unprocessed products. I don't count calories. It actually is the "French" way, though out of necessity my food is less complicated due to time constraints. Maybe I could call it bistro-style--simple, fresh, and hearty. Some of my favorite "training" dishes are golden split pea soup, real tomato soup (with almond butter), various risottos, fruit smoothies, fancy salads with a mix of fruits, veggies, cheese, and nuts; and some other standard recipes like my homemade mini meatloaves and chili mac (yes, chili mac), made with extra lean beef or soy crumbles (if the latter are mixed into something else) and real ingredients. I'll try to post some recipes of my own soon.

Anyway, I am loving this thread and hearing about how you are making mindful eating a part of your busy lives...it helps me plan my menus too.

RYB

PS--I am not really a new BB member. I had an account long ago that I deactivated. I was chefamy once. Nice to be back!

[donleyk]

I was chefamy once. Nice to be back!

Welcome back!

[sneezles]

Originally posted by RideYourBike
real tomato soup (with almond butter

Oh, this sounds very interesting!!! And welcome back!!

[SusanMac]

Yes, you definitely must share the tomato soup w/almond butter recipe (from another cyclist & eat-to-train person) :-)

[SusanMac]

On another note, Donleyk, I didn't know you were "supposed" to chew Hershey kisses! I definitely prefer the melt-in-your-mouth approach. they last longer. Yum. I do love the chocolate espresso beans, but man they keep me wired all day!

[jellyben]

Originally posted by Rosechef
rosie: I make my own breadvrumbs all the time! We never finish a loaf of crusty bread and I just let it sit in a ziploc for a day or so waiting to see if anyone will eat it! So, I pop it into the food processor and there you have it! I also make all my own croutons. Cube the bread and splsh on some olive oil, oregano, pepper and maybe some grated pecorino romano...put it in the over for 15 minutes or so and then store in an airtight container. It is amazing how many chemicals are in things like plain bread crumbs!

Question: how long do the breadcrumbs last? I am forever throwing the heel away becaus eit gets so hard noone will eat it! And can you make breadcrumbs with the heel??

[donleyk]

Sometimes I wonder how my DH gets his fingers back in enough time not to snap them off! We work and work on him to slow down eating. He grew up in a family that didn't value talking at the table. They hurried through it so they could leave. We are of that generation where dads didn't take too well to kids acting like kids (and I am not talking just manners here). It's part of growing up getting the giggles and having milk come out your nose :D :eek:

[rosie_one]

Chocolate covered espresso beans sound like a great afternoon pick me up! I'd love those. Welcome back rideyourbike, please do post your experiences and those recipes.

It's just plain really cold here today and my son had a little friend over to play, so I did some reading. The first bit was this month's "Real Simple" magazine. I'd never picked this up before, but yesterday in the grocery store line the "No-Diet Diet" subtitle caught my eye. I wondered if that is what the industry is calling the mindful eating French based thing? The article was full of authoritative people quoting grim obesity statistics and nice pictures of cheese and such, but altogether it is frustratingly vauge. A lot of common sense about eating more that is good for you and less that isn't. "The trick is to look back to the days before gargantuan portions and sedentary living and rediscover the habits of moderation." Very true, you can't argue with that, but how? They don't really answer that question. And there was nothing in there about the enjoyment of food, just vauge statements about what food groups to eat in what quantity. Denying yourself rich foods was a top priority "Red meat, butter, white rice, white bread, potatoes, pasta, sweets: Use sparingly". Definitely not my idea of a "no-diet" diet. Boy, this sort of article makes me realize how much magazines rely on weight control as a sales feature. The article said very little that was helpful, but I'm sure it sold a lot of copies. And when I think about it, every single magazine on that grocery aisle had some sort of weight related subtitle. Weight loss is big business. I wonder about some of the motivations behind it all sometimes.

Ironically, The best thing I got out of the magazine was a recipe for Hot Chocolate Cake, made in ramekins with marshmallow topping, which I'm sure goes against everything they wrote in the article. ;) But, boy, it sounds good. I'm going to try it this Sunday and I'll post it if it turns out well.

edited to say, here it is, I found it on their web site.

Hot Chocolate Cake
hands-on time: 20 minutes
total time: 55 minutes
makes 8 servings

8 tablespoons (1 stick) unsalted butter, plus extra for coating
3 tablespoons all-purpose flour, plus extra for dusting
1/2 cup sugar, plus extra for dusting
10 ounces semisweet chocolate, coarsely chopped
4 large eggs
1 large egg yolk
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup mini marshmallows
2 tablespoons unsweetened cocoa powder

Preheat oven to 375° F. Generously butter, flour, and sugar eight 6-ounce coffee cups or mugs made of ovenproof stoneware (see Cup or Cake?, below). Wipe the rims clean. Place the 8 tablespoons of butter and the chocolate in a medium heatproof bowl over a pan of simmering water and melt, stirring once or twice until smooth. Remove from heat and let cool 5 minutes. Using a handheld mixer, beat the eggs, yolk, vanilla, salt, and 1/2 cup sugar at the highest speed until the volume doubles and the mixture becomes foamy, about 5 minutes. Stir the 3 tablespoons of flour into the chocolate, then gradually add it to the egg mixture, beating on low until it’s fully incorporated. Ladle the batter into each cup until it’s about 1/2 inch from the rim. Bake until the cakes puff and begin to crack but the centers are still a bit runny, 13 to 17 minutes. Remove from oven. Sprinkle with marshmallows, then return to oven for 2 to 4 minutes, until the marshmallow tops begin to crisp. Remove from oven; let cool about 5 minutes. Sift the cocoa on top.


Cup or Cake?
You can bake these individual cakes in coffee mugs or teacups, or use eight 6-ounce ramekins. Alternatively, a single cake can be made in a 10-inch springform pan or pie plate with enough regular-size marshmallows to cover. To do this, increase the initial baking time to 22 to 25 minutes or, if you prefer a more gooey center, to 17 to 20 minutes.

[RideYourBike]

Eh, we will never see a magazine without a Get Thin Once and For All teaser. The American diet industry relies on failure for its profitabiliy. If it worked, everyone would be thin and Mickey D's stock would plummet. If the Dept of Agriculture printed a zillion one-page flyers that said "Eat Less. Exercise More" and spread them all over America with a crop-dusting plane, people would use them to paper their birdcages and go on buying Shape for its monthly miracle diet plan. No offense to Shape subscribers!

Anyhoo, I posted my soup formula on a separate thread. Thanks for the warm welcome.

[Rosechef]

Jelly: Yes! use the heel, us any and all of it. I put the crumbs in a tupperware container and there it sits. Imsut use alot of bread crumbs...I never notice it went bad. I suppose you could place the container in the fridge just to be safe.

Juile: I started to read The Fat fallacy today. It makes such perfect sense. I'll let you know more later. Thanks!

Rose

[kima]

This is a popular thread!
Thanks for the link to the Garlicky Shrimp recipe rosie!

You can PM me of you like Rosechef. I would like to hear any food ideas you may have for Madrid specifically. Thanks!

[jellyben]

Rose, thanks! Can't wait to try this!

[rosie_one]

The search for the perfect breadcrumbs. Ha. I think I've figured out my appliance issues. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to find a mini-cuisinart. I love home made crutons too Rose. Once you make them, the ones they sell in the boxes taste like polystyrene in comparison. It's one of those "no going back" food experiences.

Had an interesting experience tonight. In F-Falacy Dr. Clower talks about how your stomach is very elastic. If you constantly stuff it, it will stretch, but if you eat less, it shrinks and holds less. I proved this to myself tonight. It was report card day here and DD got some good grades, so we let her choose a restaurant for dinner. Red Lobster, and she was so excited. Hmm... I think of Red Lobster synonomously with giant fried food platters, but oh well. I figured I could find something I'd like. I ate maybe an ounce of cheese on TLC multi-grain crackers before we left because I was kind of hungry and didn't want to be famished by the time the food arrived. At the restaurant, rather than ordering an entree I ordered a cup of fish gumbo and the appetizer plate of steamed mussels (which turned out to be quite large, maybe 20 mussels). I had about 3/4 of the cup of soup, one half of a cheese biscuit, one glass of wine and about 6 or 8 mussels with a slice of sourdough bread and I was SO full! I could hardly believe it. In December I could have polished off twice that much. I felt a twinge of guilt leaving all those mussels uneaten as they were good, and you know they won't keep 'till tomorrow, but in the end I just let them go. Where does all that guilt come from anyways?

Tonight, I'm settling in for a long winter's read with Tony Bourdain's Les Halles Cookbook, which was one of my Christmas presents. It's a little over my head. I'm not going to be making a 3 day cassoulet with duck confit any time soon, but I love his irreverent writing (and eating) style and the food sounds so delicious. Maybe I'll find something I can attempt this weekend.

[Rosechef]

rosie_one: I have a question for you. I just finished The Fat Fallacy (what a quick and interesting read) and I am so excited by the week I have had. DH has been out of town, so I have really taken to heart some of the stuff you posted about earlier and now reading the book has inspired me even more. I have eaten very consciously, changed to full fat everything, eat slowly and not in front of the computer or TV. As I had mentioned before, we do eat this way at dinner very frequently, but never before have I done it for my other meals. What a difference!! I'm so excited by how I feel after only a week of doing this. I even went so far to do my own cupboard/freezer clean out this afternoon...talk about stuff hiding in the back of the cabinets!

Here's my question: DH generally eats 3-4 small meals each day...oatmeal for breakfast (which I tell him won't keep him feeling full till lunch), snacks at 9:30, lunch at 12 (usually a sandwich or yougurt/fruit) snacks again of almonds and a muffin. How have you been able to make the transition with your DH? It sounds like he is doing really well with this lifetsyle and I'm curious if you have any insight. My plan is to get DH to read the book this weekend. I'm thinking breakfast is going to be the meal I need to help him work on.

Thanks and sorry so long winded.
Rose

[RebeccaT]

Rose, your DH actually sounds like he has a pretty balanced eating plan during the week! Is he eating sugary oatmeal? If so, maybe a transition to old-fashioned wouldn't be difficult for him, and would probably keep him full longer since he wouldn't have that sugar spike then tank. Even better, you could make a pot of steel-cut oats for him, and he could reheat a serving every morning. They reheat really well. He could add a little milk and brown sugar, and maybe some dried fruit, and he'd have the breakfast of champions!

I would love to get my DH to eat more healthfully during the day. His problem is not making healthy choices; he does that already and is naturally pretty trim. His problem is that he get so heads-down in his work that he neglects to eat at all, then gets famished and eats too much. He's not taking good care of himself right now. :(

[rosie_one]

Rose, I'm glad you're so excited! It's funny how, even though a lot of this is common sense, it all adds up to a revelation.

My DHs day sounded a lot like your DHs does. We are still working on getting him to the point where he isn't ravenous at the end of his day. I suggested he add some half and half and fruit to his oatmeal in the morning. (edited to say that I like Rebeccas oatmeal ideas even better, if he is eating it at home) Then he is able to skip the mid-morning snack. Lunch, he eats a combination of a salad, bowl of soup, hard boiled egg, sandwich or something making sure he gets at least some protein, fiber and fat. And a 2% milk instead of a diet soda. Then, he tries to take a snack for the afternoon with the same qualifications. Today he took a chunk of my carrot snack cake and a small container of cottage cheese. Yesterday it was an apple with some peanut butter. He also has started to have a cup of coffee or a mineral water with this snack (something Dr. Clower advises to fight the afternoon blahs) and he really likes that too. He has discovered, since he works out pretty hard most days, that he just can't skip that afternoon snack and stay sane. Then (egads... this sounds so 1950 but) I try to make sure the first course for dinner is close to ready when he gets home so he isn't prowling around in the fridge.

We have given up soda almost completely. Not that it's pure evil, I'm sure we will still use it as a mixer now and then, but it isn't worth the calories. I've switched to flavored mineral water and really like that. It's very thirst quenching. The lime is my favorite.

More on the Eggo/kid breakfast dilemma. I put together a carrot cake for dessert the other night, which they really enjoyed, and I decided that it would be good without the frosting for breakfast and snacks too. It's moist, but not dense and oily. It definitely has that whole wheat texture to it as well, which I know some aren't crazy about, but we like it. The kids think it's a real treat to get dessert for breakfast.

Carrot Ginger Cake

1/4 cup butter, softened
1/3 cup maple syrup
1 egg
1/4 cup rasins or dried cranberries
1/8 cup orange juice
1 tablespoon chopped candied ginger
2 tablespoons apple butter
1 cup shredded carrots
1 teaspoon vanilla or dark rum
1/2 cup all purpose flour
1/2 cup whole wheat flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/4 teaspoon ground ginger
1/8 teaspoon ground nutmeg
1/8 teaspoon ground allspice (optional)

In medium mixer bowl blend together butter, syrup, egg, apple butter, carrots, vanilla, candied ginger and cranberries. In a separate small bowl whisk together dry ingredients. Add dry ingredients mixture gradually to wet while mixing. Pour batter into an 8 or 9" greased square pan. Bake at 350 for about 30 minutes, until top is golden and toothpick comes out clean. Frost if desired.

Frosting: Soften 3 or 4 ounces of cream cheese in the microwave. Mix in a glug of vanilla and enough powdered sugar to sweeten to taste. Beat with whisk until smooth.

[Rosechef]

Rebecca and Rosie: Thanks for the suggestions (especially the steel cut oat!). What's funny is that wwhen I write it all down it odes lokk like hge eats well, but he is still famished at the end of the day and is looking for more (even after a hefty dinner). He's trying to work on it and hopefully this will help.

Thanks again.

[Searcher]

My husband loves oatmeal. He's eating a Kashi cold cereal at the moment but I usually make a huge pot once every week and a half or so. The recipe says to toast the oatmeal in butter but if you're careful and stir often, you can toast it without the butter.

Toasted Oatmeal

2 cups Irish or Scottish Steel Cut Oats
2 tablespoons butter
8 cups water
Pinch of salt

Bring water to a boil. While waiting, toast oatmeal in melted butter, stirring frequently. Add boiling water, cook until oats start to look cream over medium to medium high heat.
Lower temperature to medium low and cook until most of the liquid is absorbed. Store in covered container in the refrigerator.

To reheat: Microwave on high until warm.


Here are some cooking directions from the McCann website in case you don't want a big, honking bowl of oatmeal in the fridge.

McCann’s Oatmeal Cooking Instructions

Short cuts to Steel-cuts

The cut grain of steel-cut oats means they take longer to cook than rolled oats - but the distinctive texture makes it all worthwhile!


Microwave
Mix 1/2 cup of steel cut oats with 2 cups of water in an 8 cup bowl (the size of the bowl is important as it must be large enough to allow the oats to bubble up without spilling over). Seal the bowl with plastic wrap and run at full power for 5 minutes. Stir and finish cooking for another 5 minutes (since microwaves vary in size and power, cooking times may need to be adjusted for different models).

Sleep Tight
Soak overnight - Before going to bed, boil four cups of water in a pot, turn off the heat and add one cup of oatmeal. Cover the pot and leave overnight. In the morning cook over a low flame for 9-12 mins.

Cut Corners
Place the oats, natural or pre-toasted in a food processor. A few turns of the metal blade will break up the grains and reduce the cooking time by at least 5 minutes.

Be Prepared
One trick is to prepare five days worth of oatmeal in advance. This can be stored in an airtight container in your refrigerator and used as required. To reheat, use a microwave - heat on high for 2-3 minutes and then enjoy!

Pre-Toast
Place the steel-cut oats in a preheated 300 degree oven for approximately 20 minutes. Return the oats to a tightly covered container, storing in a cool place. Toasted oats cook in half the time.

Cook under Pressure!
When the pressure is on for a quick bowl of oatmeal - Rely on your pressure cooker. In approximately 5 minutes, pre-toasted steel-cuts will be cooked to perfection. All you need is 1 cup of pre-toasted steel-cuts, 3 1/2 cups of water and 1 tablespoon unsalted butter. Be sure to allow the pressure to release slowly according to the manufacturer's directions.

[sneezles]

Searcher,
Thanks for all those directions for McCann's! I've been doing the bit at night but I've never toasted! DH has to prepare all my meals for 10 days so making a big pot of oatmeal will help him out tremendously! I'm going to toast them using the oven method.
I recently ordered some online for $6.45 for the can! The shipping was kind of high but I ordered enough so that it still came out less than the $8.95 I have to pay around here.

[CompassRose]

I looooove pre-cooked oatmeal left to go cold in the fridge, then sliced up and "fried" in nonstick spray and a bit of nutritional yeast, kind of like polenta. With syrup on top, mmm! I have a favourite rectangular glass sort of loaf pan with a lid that I pour it into (I think it's meant for terrines).

[Kyra]

Searcher, thanks for all the oatmeal cooking information! I am anxious to try cooking up " a big, honking bowl of oatmeal" for my fridge. I have a couple of questions, please. When you make the "big, honking bowl," about how long does it take to cook, once you add the boiling water? And about how many servings do you get? Eight?

CompassRose, I may have to try your method as well. Is nutritional yeast the same as Marmite, or is it something different?

Thanks,

kyra

[blazedog]

The Baked Oatmeal makes a wonderful cook ahead and/or portable breakfast or snack.

[Searcher]

Kyra,
The oatmeal last for about 8 days. It will depend on how large a serving, of course, but I used to have to make more about every 8 days.

I have an electric water kettle, so I toast the oatmeal while that's heating, watching it carefully. Then it probably takes about half an hour after that. It doesn't need constant watching so as long as I found chores to do while it was cooking in the kitchen it wasn't overly long.

BY THE WAY. BE CAREFUL WHEN ADDING THE WATER TO THE HOT POT. IT SPLATTERS!

We enjoy having that big honking bowl in the fridge!

[rosie_one]

I also have done the steel cut oats in the crock pot started at bedtime the night before. They are good that way, though a little more "mooshy" than if made on the stove.

[CompassRose]

Originally posted by Kyra
CompassRose, I may have to try your method as well. Is nutritional yeast the same as Marmite, or is it something different?

Thanks,

kyra
Oo, yoy, no, not at all! (Much though I love Marmite...) Nutritional yeast is dry, and flaky and yellow, and may be called "Good Tasting" or "Red Star T-6635" yeast. It's one of the best vegetarian sources of B-vitamins around, and also has a yummy, savoury, vaguely "cheesy" taste (not salty) that makes it a great resource for the vegan who might want to invent, say, something that is reminiscent of Parmesan or macaroni and cheese.

It is NOT brewer's yeast, and NOT engivita, which are two others you may see -- it'll usually be available in health-food stores, or Whole Foods, or the hippie section of some supermarkets. If you find it, try it on popcorn with maybe some garlic powder and salt.

If you don't, you could of course dip the oatmeal in whatever you'd dip that sort of thing in -- breadcrumbs, or I think in Mollie Katzen's breakfast book she mentioned ground flaxseeds -- I just happen to really, really like nutritional yeast.

[cab321]

This thread inspired me to try some whole milk yogurt instead of the lowfat that I usually buy. Wow! The difference is probably as drastic as that between frozen yogurt and premium ice cream. Now yogurt can be a dessert instead of something that I eat just because I think I should.

[rosie_one]

Whew, busy weekend! I too am hooked on the cream top yogurt. Delicious stuff. Amazing what a difference it makes in the flavor.

Now, the routine of this eating style has gotten more set for us. I really like it still, and am beginning to have more of a pattern to follow, which is good. I also feel like I'm through the phase where I need to be constantly analyzing what I'm eating and why, which is even better. It is definitely beginning to come more naturally to us.

Here's my menu plan for the next few days. I'll include last night's dinner as it was really tasty and made for leftovers for later in the week.

Sunday : Spinach, Artichoke starter
Zinfandel-Braised Beef Brisket with Onions and Potatoes (CL 1/2-05), Alexis frozen red potato steak fries, steamed asparagus
cheese - 2 cheddars
dessert - Chocolate ice cream

Monday: Cauliflower, Gruyere soup starter
Frozen ravioli and sauce (black bean and corn with a spicy marinara... sounds interesting), corn bread, peas and corn mix
dessert - coffee and banana bread

Tuesday: Bruschetta starter
Gingered Shrimp and Soba, edamame, grapefruit
coffee and chocolate

Wednesday: Green salad starter
Beef stroganoff over egg noodles, broccoli
coffee and chocolate

I like the twice a week shopping and the fact that my cupboards and fridge are much emptier on the whole. I can usually find what I'm looking for, amazing. :)

[rosie_one]

Compass rose, I've never even heard of nutritional yeast, but it sounds good. I'll keep my eyes open for it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Chocolate Rose]

Originally posted by rosie_one
Compass rose, I've never even heard of nutritional yeast, but it sounds good. I'll keep my eyes open for it. Thanks for the suggestion.
If you can't find it locally, I really like the nutritional yeast from The Mail Order Catalog. I think they are in Tennessee and they have quite a few vegetarian foods and cookbooks.

[alicerh]

You have gotten me to get into this too! What I love most is trying starters that I would just think they sound good and pass on. Now I have either a starter or soup before the meal and it really cuts down on hunger and jacks up satisfaction. I love this.
Alice

[rosie_one]

Alice, I'm so glad you like it! I love that too. What have you made for starters that you've really enjoyed? Share please. :)

It was hard for us at first to think of stuff, and then we realized that all those appetizers we love on menus were fair game, just in small portions. Don't get me wrong, we haven't started chowing down foie gras and caviar with cream or anything, but they are such fun little tidbits. I want to do some mini-quiches and tartlets, maybe carmelized onion and roasted veggie, soon.

This is a favorite. It's a takeoff on the ever present, ever delicious hot artichoke dip:

Artichoke Spinach Starter (for 2-3 people)

1/2 a 15 oz. can of quartered artichoke hearts, chopped
5 oz. steamed fresh spinach, squeezed dry (or equal amount frozen, chopped)
1 tsp. lemon juice or white wine vinegar
1/2 tsp. salt
1 Tablespoon mayonaise
Couple drops of hot sauce
2 ounces chopped mozzarella or smoked mozzarella (about 1/4 cup)
1 ounce grated hard cheese like parmesan, romano or gruyere (about 2 T.)

Mix all together in a small ovenproof dish. Bake in a 350 oven for about 15 minutes or until heated through. Serve with crackers.

[alicerh]

Rosie - I'm making a list of things to have handy for when I can't think of what to make.
Things I have tried are:
crostini - ( these with a glass of wine) French bagette, cut 1/2 inch think, painted with olive oil ( and sometimes Ital herbs or Parm cheese) and baked at 350 for about 25 min until golden around the edges. I keep a bag of these to use with all kinds of toppings ( I allow myself 3) such as :
-roasted red peppers marinated in olive oil and herbs with a few herbed olives
-white bean spread
-eggplant spread or caponata
-mushroom caviar
-goat cheese with sun-dried tom and pesto

polenta triangles with roasted red pepper puree
brie with a few almonds
steamed clams
stuffed mushrooms with goat cheese and spinach
grilled shrimp skewers brushed with a dressing or sauce ( My grocery is selling these frozen with 6 shrimp for $1/skewer !!) I grill them is a grill pan 1 1/2 min on each side

Soups are creamed spinach with blue cheese, curried carrot, cream of mushroom, roasted squash and apple

In the summer cold soups like gazpacho, dilled cucumber, salsa seafood

Tonight I am making roasted lemon artichokes that I saw on Michael Chiarella last week. He served it over pasta, I will serve just these as starter
here (http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_29594,00.html)

I want to get some of this ideas in the freezer I don't have the same thing every night. I guess it will be trial and error as far a the suitability of freezing some of it.
Alice

[alicerh]

Rosie - I have to add one more because I just love this. How could I forget it? It's from the book "Under the Tuscan Sun". Seed and slice thinly 4 peppers ( I use red, yellow and orange) . Cook slowly in a little olive oil and 1/4 cup balsamic vinegar until soft, about a hour. Stir occassionally and add oil or vinegar if they get dry. They should almost melt. Serve warm on crostini toasted and rubbed with garlic.
You need a good flavored vinegar since it is concentrating so much. I use the Tuscan from Costco.

Alice

[rosie_one]

Alice, those sound wonderful! Thank you. :) Very inspiring.

I'm going to try the peppers for sure. It's been so long since I read "Under the Tuscan Sun" I should pick it up again. It's funny, that is the way we roast our canned tomatoes for marinara, but it never occurred to me to do the same with peppers.

I can't believe I didn't think of stuffed mushroom caps. We love those. And they are good with so many different kinds of stuffings.

Would you be willing to share your spinach and blue cheese puree soup recipe? That sounds so good and I happen to have a chunk of Maytag Blue in the house.

[juliew]

I tried this on Saturday night, and really enjoyed it. I had prepped everything that I could beforehand - chopped garlic etc and actually kept the menu pretty simple since I am not a big fan of dishes. I even went so far as to plate the cheese and dessert course before dinner.

We started with a stuffed portobello mushroom that I split between the two of us. At first I don't really think my husband knew what to do. He kind of snarfed it down and looked at me with the big puppy dog eyes - like "that's all I get?". I think the wine started to kick in then and we actually had a conversation which was nice! I think a lot of the time, we're so busy eating that the talking gets skipped.

Then I actually cooked dinner. (Rosie, do you find you are able to go from one course to the next without actually doing much prep between them generally?). We had lemon pepper chicken, spinach and a couscous pilaf. I went so far as to garnish the chicken even! I used my plates that have a big colorful rim on them and only put enough food on them to cover the 6" white part. I actually didn't even eat most of the chicken as I wasn't starving and I knew I still had other courses coming.

Cheese course was a raw milk cheddar and a yogurt cheese DH picked out. Dessert was a couple of small truffles and half a tangerine each.

Overall I don't know that I ate any less, but it was fun to make a production out of the meal. DH usually sneaks into the kitchen for another meal late at night and he didn't do that this time either! This is certainly not an every night deal for me, and I think concentrating on simple prepare ahead foods is key (how can you relax if you're rushing trying to get dinner made?!?). I'm already planning next week - thinking prosciutto and melon, green salad with basalmic vinegarette, fettucine (or ravioli) with alfredo sauce and maybe a sorbet for dessert.

OK, I'm done now. Rosie you can have your thread back :D

[gracey]

I have found that the longer you do this, the easier the timing part gets. Either that, or you just quit getting stressed about it. Obviously, timing is easier if you aren't doing things like a stir fry or quick saute. Just think that if you were eating out, there would be a natural lull between courses. I also have no qualms about enlisting help in the kitchen from course to course. Just pour the wine and relax.

I think it is a great idea to plate as much as you can in advance like juliew says. Especially works for things that are room temp or refrigerated.

[rosie_one]

Julie, I'm glad you enjoyed. :) Your meal sounds like it was delicious. Is there a recipe for your lemon pepper chicken? I'd love to try it.

Gracey, I agree, it took me kind of a while before I got the swing of it too. It's a pattern and, like anything I suppose, with practice it gets a lot easier. The first course, for us at least, just takes that edge off. It's a tasty nibble to get you relaxed and transitioned into the dinner mode. I definitely leave the table for about 5 or 10 minutes between the first course and the entree. I try to have everything prepped (coffee in the maker, plates and bread warming, etc...) as much as possible, but there is usually something last minute that needs attention and it all needs to be plated up. I also have discovered that some entrees hold better than others.

mmmm... prosciutto with melon. I haven't done that one yet either. Yum.

And, it isn't my thread... I just started it, you're not hijacking at all. My life is getting much busier this week for a while so I won't be able to blab on as much. I hope everyone feels free to post, tell us more! :)

[Rosechef]

I need to chime in again and tell you that I have been doing the "courses" and The Fat Fallacy info for 2 weeks now and it is wonderful! DH read the book this past weekend and is enjoying the change in our diet an dhow we both look at food now. I've even got my DS (13y) into reading lables and looking for more natural foods.

Ny menus remain simple and earthy. I'm not making anything much different or extravagant, but we are enjoying more leisurely dinners (on nights that we can b/w some kids activities).

Last night was:
1st course: green salad with pecans and feta cheese, fresh balsamic vingearette.

Entree: Oven fried pecan crusted catfish, roasted potatoes, balsamic green beans and sliced carrots.

Cheese course: greyure and brie with red grapes

dessert: green tea, lemon bars

Thanks for the book recommendation! I have lost 3 pounds in the 2 weeks from cahnging to full fat and less snacks. I just don't need to eat as often. It's great.
Rose

[juliew]

Rosie,

For the lemon pepper chicken I didn't really use a recipe. I glanced through several different recipes, but didn't feel like making any more dishes than I already was so I just sprinkled a couple of chicken breasts with a bit of salt, generous amount of pepper. Heated up some olive oil, threw the breasts in and sqeezed a bit of fresh lemon juice over the top.

It's been fun reading about your adventures!

Julie

[alicerh]

Originally posted by rosie_one

Would you be willing to share your spinach and blue cheese puree soup recipe? That sounds so good and I happen to have a chunk of Maytag Blue in the house.

Rosie - I don't have an exact recipe for the soup. I heard of it when it was served at the assisted living place where my Mom used to live. It sounded so good that I experimented. I have never written it down but should. Roughly this is it.

Cream of Spinach Soup with Blue Cheese

1/4 cup cold milk
1/4 cup flour
1 T butter
1 shallot, minced
1 -1 1/2 cup cooked chopped spinach ( if frozen, squeese out juice. If fresh, chop and can saute with the shallots)
2 oz cream cheese
3 cups milk
blue cheese

Blend the flour with 1/4 cup milk and set aside.
Heat butter over med heat and saute shallots until tender. Add fresh chopped spinach to saute or squeezed frozen. Add milk and heat . Mix in flour mixture and cook until thickened. Add cream cheese and stir until melted. Add blue cheese until flavor is as desired. I have found it makes a difference whether using blue, gorgonzola, Maytag etc as they are all different "strength". As you can see, I'm not a recipe writter. Hope you can get this to work for you.
Alice

[Searcher]

This thread is wonderful. I'm having such a good time reading everyone's adventures.
My husband and I started renovating our kitchen (tearing it down from the inside of the clapboards to the subflooring and starting all over again) a year ago in August. We turned our dining room into a kitchen with everything but the kitchen sink in there...literally. It worked pretty well except for the few days now and again we didn't have use of the sink. One thing that worked beautifully was eating at the table again for the first time in years, rather than on snack trays in front of the tv. We found, even without changing to luncheon plates that we ate a LOT less sitting at the table and I did often serve courses. It was a nice relaxing time and we enjoyed it. We've begun eating in the new kitchen most of the time and I've started using luncheon plates to help with portion control. I'm printing out everyone's ideas and building a recipe file.
Thanks and keep posting menus/ideas!

[mom2garret]

I just thought I would let you guys know that tomorrow (Thurs) on Regis and Kelly, the author of the book French Women Don't Get Fat is going to be on. Just an FYI incase anyone wants to tune in.
Jodi

[rosie_one]

Thanks Jodi... I missed it, did anyone else catch it?

Made another favorite for 1st course tonight. Barefoot contessa's roasted eggplant spread.

http://www.gardenguides.com/recipes/roasteggplantspread.htm Served on water crackers and TLC mixed grain bites.

Little progress report, DH is down 5 pounds in a little over 2 weeks. I'm down a little over 2 and feeling trimmer. Not bad, since we feel like we have eaten really well. :)

I definitely feel like we could do this for a long time. It's given me confidence that we can maintain healthy weights without obsessing over food.

[mom2garret]

Your Welcome. I did catch it. Basically, the author of the book (can't remember her name), was saying that the french eat whatever they want in small portions. She had alfredo and pasta but on the plate there was about a cup serving. She said that they have a drink (champagne) everyday as well as a portion of chocolate (small piece), that they take time to enjoy. She said that they take the time to realize that they are satisfied. She stressed that having conversation while eating is important as well. They eat yogurt but they eat the good stuff, that way a smaller portion satifies them. She also said that leeks are an important part of their diet (a natural diaretic (sp?). After reading the posts here it is pretty much what you are all doing. You are on to something ;) Keep up the good work!
Jodi

[veschke]

Well, Joie de vivre finally arrived. I have so far just skimmed through it, but on that basis I recommend waiting for it to hit the remainder shelves, or at least paperback, if you're interested in this sort of thing. Not bad but not worth the hardcover price.

It's rather autobiographical in nature; the author tells you about how he (or the French generally) does things, or retells his childhood memories, with the assumption that doing things that way will make a person happy. Some of it is charming (description of the evening meal), some of it inconsequential (he spends a fair bit of time talking about things he would like to do now that they live in the CT rather than NYC), some of it makes me turn green (a two hour lunch break? I can't remember the last time I didn't eat at my desk!). He does include some recipes, I haven't really studied those yet but I believe they're straightforward, traditional items.

BTW, inspired by this thead, since it's Sunday I decided to try the course approach to supper. Starter was an acorn squash soup, highly spiced to counter my husband's aversion to gourds, and then just a roast chicken and mashed potatoes, followed by a bit of cheese (I was going to make pound cake this afternoon but didn't get to it, so no dessert course). We spent an hour or so over dinner (yay for a napping baby!) and really enjoyed it.

I am a firm believer in family dinnertime, and we generally spend a lot of time at the table talking anyway, but this was a neat approach. It stretched things out a bit without adding much effort. And I know I ate less of the potatoes (one of my favorite foods) than I would have without the soup beforehand and the promise of cheese afterward. :-)

[Edited for error.]

[Aubergine]

bump ~

lol, did i say "4 pages?" :D

[pschambers]

Just picked up The Fat Fallacy at my local bookstore. I am very interested in this. I have believed for a long time now that if people consumed good wholesome foods instead of all the processed crap...well, you get the idea.

rosie one, I will let you know what I think of the book. BTW, how are things going? Any new updates?

Patti

[rosie_one]

Patti, I hope you like the book, do let us know what you think. Things are going well. :) Thanks for asking.

I'm absolutely loving the lack of processed stuff in our diet and can't imagine why I didn't do that bit sooner. I've discovered that there are a ton of natural ingredient products that taste the same or better as most of my favorites. Sour cream, for example, Daisy makes one that is nothing but cream. Horseradish is a whole different condiment when it's not full of preservatives and bread, oh boy... so much better to buy the natural stuff or make your own. I am shopping more at the gigantic grocery though, which has plusses and minuses. More choice and more economical, but also more time consuming and the music, oy. I heard "dancin' on the ceiling" today. :eyeroll:

V-Day weekend was kind of a blow out for us as we traveled without the kids, but I felt like we did a good job controlling the damanges. DH and I have started ordering meals in restaurants together and thinking of the total amount of food and balance on the table, rather than individually. Went to the cheesecake factory for lunch the other day, for example, while we were shopping at a big mall. That place is notorious for giving HUGE portions. So, we ordered one appetizer and one sandwich and split them both. It was a lot easier to ignore the heap of fries on the sandwich plate and that basket of tasteless bread after enjoying the roasted veggie quesadilla first and knowing there was a slice of apple cheesecake in our future.

We keep losing, slowly but surely. I definitely feel healthier. It's good. :)

[rosie_one]

Thought I'd post our menu from tonight, since it went well. :)

1st course - fruit and yogurt parfaits. I hid 4 or 5 chocolate chips at the bottom and my kids had fun searching for the "suprise" at the bottom. Cute. They were layers of yogurt, bananas, apple butter, grapes and strawberries.

Entree - Zinfandel and Mustard Braised Short Ribs, penne, peas

Cheese - Havarti and 4 year cheddar on rosemary crackers (which are SO good!)

Dessert - A few pieces of valentine's chocolate from a local confectioner.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Zinfandel and Mustard Braised Short Ribs

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 8 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories :

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 bottle red wine -- zinfandel, syrah or burgundy
1 tablespoon olive oil
2 pounds short ribs -- boneless
salt and pepper
2 onions -- chopped
1 can tomatoes -- fire roasted, chopped
3 tablespoons coarse mustard

In a large dutch oven, boil wine reducing by half. Stir in mustard.

Meanwhile, salt and pepper the short ribs. Heat the oil in a heavy bottomed saute pan over med-high heat and brown the short ribs on all sides. Set aside. In the same pan saute the onions for about 5 minutes, pour in the can of tomatoes (undrained) and deglaze. Turn off the heat and set aside.

When the wine is reduced, put the meat in the pan with the wine, cover and simmer on low heat for about 2 hours. Add in the tomato and onion mixture. Continue simmering for about another 30 minutes. Salt and pepper to taste. Serve with pasta (like creamy parmesan orzo). Makes for great leftovers.

[Molli526]

Where are you finding the Cream Topped Yogurt?

I read the book last night and I am ready to take to the cupboards and get rid of a few things! :)

[rosie_one]

Go Molli. :)

Cupboard excavation was a fun exercise. Very mind clearing somehow, and boy I need that every now and then. ;)

The cream-top yogurt I buy is just the stoneyfield whole milk vanilla. http://www.stonyfield.com/OurProducts/WholeMilkYogurt.cfm#javascript:void(0)

I've also discovered another brand I think we like even better. Old Home natural vanilla. It's 1/2 the price of the Stonyfield and a little more tangy and less sweet. Very tasty. It is Minnesota made, I'm not sure if they distribute nationally.
http://www.oldhomefoods.com/whoweare/morehistory.asp

The stonyfield is at most groceries in the natural foods spot. The Old Home I've had to trek to the gigantic grocery for.

[sneezles]

Originally posted by Molli526
I read the book last night and I am ready to take to the cupboards and get rid of a few things! :)

I read it last week and have already given away 2 boxes of pantry items (sort of makes me feel guilty though-giving away stuff I won't use for our health).

[Molli526]

I told DH about it and he is pretty excited. I am going to purge the cabinets probably on Saturday, when I have time.

DH is just excited for the whole milk :rolleyes:

I had a glass of half skim/half whole milk and it just tasted so decadent to me. I have followed the plan so far today and I have felt really full w/o any snacks :)

[Molli526]

OH!

Have you made any recipes from the book? I kind of want to buy a copy just to have as reference, and if even one recipe is good, that would be just the excuse to buy the book.

[rosie_one]

You know, I haven't tried any of the recipes in the book. I glanced over them but they didn't seem as compelling as my CL recipes. They are kind of basic, things like chicken with 40 cloves of garlic, green beans and mashed potatoes. Good stuff, but part of what I like about this way of eating is that I can use all of our favorites. His gumbo looks similar to the one I make though, so he can't be all bad. ;) If you want the recipe, visit this link. It's a fun read. linky! (http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=61289) The basic, really delicious, "Gumbo Goddess" recipe is in post #7.

I do find it interesting that Dr. Clower doesn't specify how many servings each dish makes. I guess the point is that you are supposed to decide for yourself how much you need.

[rosie_one]

Sneezels, I know what you mean about the guilt. I felt it too while waiting to donate my items. Kind of weird giving away things that seem inferior. But, I rationalized that it's no different than giving away a perfectly good sweater or pair of shoes that I don't think is stylish enough anymore (and I do that all the time without guilt). I'm glad that it went to good use for someone. At our food pantry the patrons literally get to shop for what they want, they can take three things from this shelf and two things from that one, etc... So, they have choices. They don't have to pick my corn syrup laden chutney if they don't want to.

[sneezles]

Originally posted by rosie_one
They don't have to pick my corn syrup laden chutney if they don't want to.

LOL! Some of the stuff I'm sure most people wouldn't know what to do with it...blackberry cabernet sauce, blue cheese butter, tapenade.
Some of it I gave to friends!:eek: That was mostly stuff with high sodium content though but they did have their choice of "take it or leave it"! ;)

DH is excited about being back to whole milk (it's been 25 years :eek: , I got rid of it when we got married!:eek: ). My oatmeal is so much tastier in the morning and I don't even need any sweetner!!

I'm really into doing soups as a first course and a small tossed salad as the second course. DH and I split a baked tater last night and his comment was by that point "I'm sure glad it's only half!" We straighten up the kitchen after the entrée and then have dessert, it's very civilized!:D

I just want to thank you, rosie_one, for bringing this book to the BB!!

[Nanci]

I've been lurking out there reading this thread. It is quite enjoyable. I am really enjoying Rosie's posts and the commentary.

I still have about 100 pages left to read. I am reading the "Fat Fallacy" by Dr. Will Clower. It sounds like there are a few books out there.

I have to admit this has opened my eyes to all the processed foods that have crept into my diet and taken over my diet. Tonight, I had a brie panini w/spinach, roasted red peppers and basil. I even used real butter - not margarin or that strange spray.

The one thing that surprises me is that my sister has been telling me for ages about how bad chemicals are, etc. But, she is my tree hugging sister in Oregon. I had coffee with a Greek friend this weekend - and she is another one who doesn't eat processed foods. Despite having a huge family her pantry is one shelf. She shops for fresh foods frequently and doesn't have the assortment of cans, grains, etc. Then today I was talking to a friend from the Philippines and once again I realized how healthy her eating habits. Lots of fruits, fish and vegetables and she'd never order a low fat muffin or low fat cream cheese:)


Just thought I would throw in my thoughts. Keep the posts coming Rosie:)

Nanci

[rosie_one]

Thanks for the nice words you guys. :) I'm glad you are enjoying this thread. I am too.

This weekend was kind of a different one for me. I volunteer as an adviser for a national women's organization, which is very rewarding. I attended a convention this weekend. I usually come home feeling stuffed and up a pound. Suprisingly, I was down a pound again this morning. The food was plentiful and frankly, pretty bad. It was at a large chain hotel and primarily used their catering. Usually I eat WAY too much at these things as all you do is sit and listen to speakers and eat. Listen some more, eat some more, then maybe have a snack. Our first night we ordered at the hotel's cafe... I ate about half of a chicken and avocado quesadilla and a bowl of fish chowder. A bowl soup and a small appetizer is a satisfying way to order in restaurants that tend to heap on the fries. Not only do you get a course style serving with the soup first, but the portions are much more manageable.

The breakfasts were heaped with donuts, sweet breads, muffins and danish, but fortunately they also had fresh fruit, yogurt and granola. Digging through the yogurt containers, I did find one that wasn't low fat or nonfat, mixed it with the granola and a bunch of grapes. Not bad. I found I didn't even want to try the baked goods because I was sure they would be greasy and/or stale so why bother? Hmmm, I think I've become a food snob, but it's working in my favor. The lunch wasn't bad, a chef's salad bar with vegetable soup and cookies. The dinner was truly awful. I ate my broccoli and my spinach salad. The beef was way overdone, the chicken was tasteless rubber and the cheesecake was downright soapy. In previous years I would have eaten it all anyways, quickly, without tasting much.

Eating less also forced me to drink less in the bar that night. I still enjoyed my one vodka tonic and the stories from those who didn't go for moderation though. ;)

I find it interesting that the food which had been ordered for us that weekend was what I think of as a typical cliche girl's diet. Heavy on the salads and sugar, token low fat and "diet" items scattered throughout (lo-cal salad dressings, nonfat yogurts, skim milk, diet soda). Not very balanced. Not very tasty. I used to eat like that all the time, especially in my mid- 20s. No wonder I was always wanting more to eat.

[rosie_one]

I finally picked up a copy of French Women Don't Get Fat by Mireelle Guiliano, just to see her take on things. I'm about 2/3 of the way through it and thought I'd post my impressions. This is more of a "girlfriend" type book. I think she sees herself as a benevolent female relative or the like, imparting the secrets and wisdom of her culture. It's charming on some levels, she is an engaging storyteller, but she also comes across as being a bit condescending and paints with a rather broad brush. I think many of her ideas, which are similar to Dr. Clower's and have been working well for me over the past six weeks are good, but doesn't explain them as clearly and she somehow makes them seem very inaccessable. I find myself thinking "Well that's just fine for you with your wonderful farm markets and sunshine, champangne life, but what about me here in Northern Wisconsin?" Dr. Clower, while not as full of 'je ne se quois' (or however you spell that) is a whole lot more concrete in his way of explaining things, encouraging and supportive.

However, I don't want to trash this book entirely, there is good stuff in there (even if you aren't crazy about the idea of a leek broth fast, which seems very out of sync with the rest of the book's "no extremes" mantra). I think the two books can work well together. The recipes in French Women are really well put together and appealing, which is something I think the Dr. Clower book lacks. There are several recipes in French Women I'd love to try. Things like asparagus flan and Plum Clafoutis.

I think French Women Don't get Fat might be a good one to take out of the library for the recipes and for a light read, but the Dr. Clower book is a better guide, IMHO.

[pschambers]

rosie one
I have reserved French Women from my library and am on a waiting list.

I posted last week that I was reading Dr Clower's book. I have finished it and have basically been trying to put it into practice for the last 2 weeks. The sit down family dinner thing is sometimes hard as DH works late some evenings and I tend to go to bed early because I get up at 4 am to get ready for work. Anyway, I got on the scales today for the first time in the 2 week period. I am down 7 pounds and I do not feel deprived at all. I know I am eating less quantity of food. I love the whole milk yogurt! I can only find plain, but I add flavorings and fruit and it is delicious. For dinner Wed night we had Chicken with 40 cloves of Garlic, buttered asparagus, and homemade baguettes, and sliced edam and harvarti cheese. Last night was "snacky dinner" - leftover baguette slices with turkey pastrami and cheese broiled, and that was enough and satisfying.

So thanks rosie one for bringing this to the boards. I hope things continue to go well for all of us.

Patti

[sapphirestar]

I've been fascinated by this thread! One question I have is how much cheese do you have during a cheese course? Is it just one or two slices?

One of our local restaurants has changed their menu a bit, and now their dessert menu includes cheese choices as well. DH and I went out for Valentines Day, and after dinner he ordered the cheese and I ordered the dessert and then we split them. It was a nice way to end the meal.

[lorilei]

Bringing this back "up top" since it seems to be of interest... more threads about this book cropping up all over.

Am also interested in continuing the conversation, since this intrigues me. And I've been looking for ways to lose pounds without COUNTING and agonizing.

[sneezles]

Originally posted by lorilei
Bringing this back "up top" since it seems to be of interest... more threads about this book cropping up all over.

Am also interested in continuing the conversation, since this intrigues me. And I've been looking for ways to lose pounds without COUNTING and agonizing.

Lorilei,
We have a thread going over on the Healthy Living Board, you could join us there!
Susan

[scarneva]

Here's an interesting perspective by four French food bloggers, who related their personal experiences as French women to the views presented in French Women Don't Get Fat :

http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/personalities/roundtable_the_french_paradox.php

[KLynn]

Wow, I was surprised to see that Clotilde was one of the bloggers! She used to be a poster around here, before she went and got famous...

[krhm]

Thanks for the link to the article, Steve! There are a few of us on the Healthy Living Board who are discussing this topic as well if anyone is interested!

Kari