Fat Fallacy revisited: anyone NOT buy into it?

[foodfiend]

I'm currently reading the Fat Fallacy by Will Clower. It's a good and quick read. He makes some interesting points that I'll keep in mind like eating slower so your stomach feels full, cutting down on fake foods and excess sugar, but I'm not sure if I accept the whole premise. His science isn't fully explained even though he is a PhD. He says the French don't exercise. I wonder what would happen if they did -- would their caloric intake increase? Would they get cravings the way we do? I don't know if I could change my eating habits to suit the French way. I was raised on the concept of "Good food and plenty of it".

[lorilei]

Originally posted by foodfiend
He says the French don't exercise.

And - the first AHA! moment... No, many probably don't exercise ON PURPOSE, but they WALK everywhere. I think that counts as exercise.

Our culture is just so INTO the concept that exercise needs to be an extra activity. So, in some ways, I agree with you. If exercise can't be natural -- this method will never be effective, since it presumes a natural level of physicality that most of us won't/can't attain in our daily desk-bound lives.

[Rosechef]

I am sure that SOME French people do do organized exercise. It's just like saying there are no fat French people...heck I am sure there are some! I have been following the books basic principles for 6 weeks now. I am a former WW (lost 15 pounds), RN, Personal trainer, SAHM with 2 teenagers, perimenopausal woman (LOL!)...I have finally lost those last 5 pounds by eating this way. I gradually switched my family to full fat, organic, healthier fare. No more processed cookies, chips, junk food. Thankfully, we were almost there (sans the full fat foods) and the transition was pretty simple. In addition, I like to cook and bake, so that is not an issue. With the addition of more EVOO, full fat cream, milk, yogurt and reducing ice cream and sweets, my skin is clearer and I am not as hungry as I was doing WW and low fat foods. Granted, I do snack in the mid-afternoon. I work out intensely and I am hungry. My snacks are different now...cheese and a pear, some nuts vs. cookies or Hi pro bars. These principles have allowed me to start listening to my body and give it the food it needs in moderate quantities. It has made me THINK about how much food I really need to be satisfied vs. before I would just pile and eat somewhat mindelessly.

Interestingly enough, as I said I am a PT and a RN....I train clients and can recite good eating habits until I am blue in the face. I finally made the switch and started walking the walk. It feels refreshing.

Are these principles anything new? No, not really. However the book struck a chord with me and allowed me to make a lifetsyle change. For that reason, I'll buy into it.

Happy reading.
Rose

[sneezles]

Originally posted by foodfiend
I was raised on the concept of "Good food and plenty of it".

And it's the last part that has gotten most Americans into trouble. Knowing when enough is enough. As the book says portions in Amercia and portions that Americans have come to expect for their dollar are outrageous!!!
Do I buy into the whole program, yes. After tinkering with portion sizes the past couple of weeks I lost 3 pounds. This is without exercise since I can't until I get my dr's OK (which hopefully will be Thursday). I eat full fat yoghurt, milk, ice cream and cheese. I use EVOO for sautéing and in my salad dressings. I now make bread every week and I had a burger with a bun that I made. Do you know how long it's been since I've had a bun???
My blood glucose is now more stable and I don't bottom out between lunch and dinner. My morning glucose is now usually under 110 and I don't take any meds for it. It is an advantage having a meter to test because I can then determine if I'm really hungry or if I just think I'm hungry...there is a difference.
I don't feel I need to drink buckets of water yet I'm not retaining fluids. I still probably drink about 10 glasses but that's down from the gallon I was drinking. And since my stomach isn't continually being stretched to hold water or food I require less to eat at any meal.
I love ending my evening meal with a piece of dark chocolate with no guilt at all!!

[Aubergine]

i'm not sure what your question really is. there recently was a lengthy thread on the "Eating the French Way' book, which addressed some of these issues; you can find it via Search.

i think you said it all it your last sentence; to paraphrase: "I was raised on good food and plenty of it."

is your interest to lose weight, or to eat and not worry about your weight (up to a point)--?? as long as you subscribe to that thinking, you have several choices:

--change your beliefs about the amount of food you 'need' to eat

--continue to eat beaucoup food, and change what foods you eat

i recommend that you read/look at the other book, because one of the primary ways the French stay slender is by not eating "plenty of it."

[rosie_one]

Well, I'm not sure if you want to hear from those who do "buy into it" from the title of your thread but, uh, I did.

I like it. I too have lost those really stubborn last few pounds and am very happy with the changes I've made. It's been a good switch.

Am I a perfect frenchwoman now? No. But I feel better and feed my family better than I did before. I eat less overall, feel more in control and less hunger and guilt about food.

Here's the link to that thread, if you didn't catch it earlier.

http://community.cookinglight.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69409

I'm sure this plan isn't for everyone, but it is going well for me. Have you given it a try yet or are you still pondering? I honestly, didn't believe it would work as well as it has either, and DH was downright skeptical. But once we got started and I felt the changes in myself and my eating patterns first hand it seemed to make a lot of sense. It sort of all "clicked" for me after about 10 days.

[foodfiend]

No,I don't mean to shoot down the whole book. There are some very valid points he makes, esp. about the huge portions we eat. But as I read it, I thought, this way of eating would be great if I lived in France. But I don't, so I have to adjust to what's in front of me. As well, there are many university departments and great magazines devoted to low-fat cooking. This didn't come from nowhere.
BTW, I am Chinese, and Chinese culture centres on food. "Good food and plenty of it" meant dishes with lots of vegetables, easy on the deep-fried foods and very easy on the sweets. (Unfortunately I had problems accepting the last one:)) But it didn't mean depriving yourself or seeing food as an enemy. Or necessarily seeing high-fat foods as tastier than low-fat ones.

[Clover]

I bought this book a couple weeks ago and have been "eating the French way" since then. I don't really buy into the science part of it, if that's what you're asking about. It may all be true, but I think anybody can pick and choose studies to support their position, so I take that part of it with a grain of salt. But I am willing to go along with the view that if their way of eating is working out better than ours, why not try doing what they do? So far, eating this way is working well for me, and I do feel that I'm having "good food and plenty of it." I think having a first course takes the edge off my appetite, and both the anticipation of and the eating of the cheese after the main course plays a big part in making me feel satisfied with smaller portions. I find that I don't even feel like eating between meals. And the last couple of nights when I started to put the size portion I normally would on my plate, I thought, "No, that's too much." It wasn't that I thought I shouldn't eat that much, but that I didn't want to. I knew I'd be satisfied with a smaller portion and the larger amount would make me feel too full. So I find that I'm eating less food, but feeling more satisfied. I know it's only been two weeks, but so far--works for me.

[kwormann]

I have also adopted some of the concepts and it is working for me. We dont eat in courses, but I have been letting myself have things I have never had....butter on toast, cream in coffee, because I have been eating smaller portions of all foods and have been really enjoying each bite I take :)

[foodfiend]

There was a CL article a long time ago about Chinese food writer Ying Campestine. She gained a lot of weight during pregnancy then took a diet program afterwards. She didn't like the concept of rewarding yourself with a bite or two of cheesecake, so she started developing low-fat recipes that tastes good so she could eat more. This is more the philosophy I was raised with.

[lorilei]

I must confess that I am interested in this concept. And I bumped up rosie_one's thread as a result.

My skepticism comes, I believe, from a real cultural brainwashing of sorts. The believe that diets are DIFFICULT. And unenjoyable. And that losing weight is this terrible BATTLE that is miserable and just has to be fought if you want to be thinner and healthier.

I HATE that concept. I want to enjoy my food -- and eat REAL food, not diet substitutes.

But it's pretty hard to shake the idea that it just can't work that way.

[sneezles]

Originally posted by lorilei
I want to enjoy my food -- and eat REAL food, not diet substitutes.

But it's pretty hard to shake the idea that it just can't work that way.

After 3 weeks on this eating plan/style of eating (I don't use the word diet anymore) I've lost 3 pounds. No weight loss the first 2 weeks but I spent most of that time figuring out my portion sizes. After 25 years of dieting I'm so happy to be able to eat and enjoy good food without any guilt!!!!! I'm satisfied with smaller portions, I don't feel deprived of any food and I'm losing weight! Now I've got quite a bit to lose but I'm not looking to lose it all by next week or even next month. I'm a much happier eater these days!:D

[Molli526]

Just eating the cream topped yogurt is enough to make me happy :)

I've been following this loosely, changing the milk to whole, eating cheese with the meal, and I have been eating smaller portions just b/c I am satisfied with less.

I am happier, DH is happier and I think we are eating better b/c we aren't filling up on faux foods.

I have lost a couple of pounds. I think if I watch my portion sizes, more would come off.

[Molli526]

<bump>

[Bawstinn]

Originally posted by foodfiend
There was a CL article a long time ago about Chinese food writer Ying Campestine. She gained a lot of weight during pregnancy then took a diet program afterwards. She didn't like the concept of rewarding yourself with a bite or two of cheesecake, so she started developing low-fat recipes that tastes good so she could eat more. This is more the philosophy I was raised with.

I don't like the notion of "rewarding" yourself with food ... I would prefer to reward myself with a new skirt or a manicure. :)

That said, I guess I wonder why she wants to be able to eat more? Is it truly hunger or is it that she is a "volume eater"? Needs to eat a lot to be satisfied, rather than being satisfied from the quality of food that she eats. Not sure if my point is coming across ..

If I have a craving for ice cream, I would rather have one serving of the good stuff. If I crave it, then eat the sugar-free, fat-free stuff, my craving certainly isn't going to go away, since there is something in the full-fat stuff that I want. I'd probably be more inclined to eat more of the low fat ice cream (and probably other stuff :rolleyes: ) until I was "satisfied". With the real stuff, the craving is usually satisfied.

Maria

[erinsue]

Originally posted by Molli526
Just eating the cream topped yogurt is enough to make me happy :)

I am right there with you!!!

[suchi]

I think the book has a number of valid points. What I disliked, however, was that it still advocates a "prescribed" diet. What if I do not like whole milk? Should I begin drinking it because the French do? Often, this aspect of diet programs/eating plans are what cause them to fail for many people in the long run. Really, the best parts of this book focus on enjoying real food in appropriate portions, to which I wish the book would have confined its scope.

[veschke]

Originally posted by Bawstinn
That said, I guess I wonder why she wants to be able to eat more?

In the context of cheesecake, if I'm going to have it, I don't want just a couple of bites. :-) Nor do I want to eat the whole thing, of course.

As to whether I "buy into it," I haven't read it, so I guess not. :-)

[sneezles]

Originally posted by suchi
I think the book has a number of valid points. What I disliked, however, was that it still advocates a "prescribed" diet. What if I do not like whole milk? Should I begin drinking it because the French do?

No, I don't see anything even close to a "prescribed" diet. You don't have to drink milk but if you do then make it whole milk since it will take less to satisfy you. I don't believe the French drink a lot of milk not like Americans anyway. Whole milk yoghurt is much more filling than that fat-free fake sweet stuff but if you don't care for it don't eat it.

[lorilei]

Originally posted by suchi
I think the book has a number of valid points. What I disliked, however, was that it still advocates a "prescribed" diet.

Don't you think people are looking for a prescription whenever they pick up a diet book?

We WANT people to tell us what to eat -- and how doing so will help us to lose weight. Most people need/want/prefer guidelines.

I happen to fall in another camp... I'd rather read information, take what I need from it, and try out my own plan. I believe very strongly in the fact that every body is too unique to be lumped in a "one size fits all" diet mentality.

And this is why I'd tend to ask: Is that REALLY what this book is advocating more than anything? Portion control?

If I'm already eating mostly unprocessed foods and not snacking, what does this offer to me? (big question I have)

[krhm]

I don't know about the science either, and I don't think that America's weight problems can be completely attributed to the popularity of "faux foods," as Clower calls them. There are too many other variables. I did find the book to be redundant in places, childish in others, but the ultimate message is, to me, good advice for all the reasons Sneezles, KWormann, Molli526, Clover, and Rosie_One pointed out.

When I first read the thread Rosie_One started, I remember going to the store and looking at some full-fat yogurt, then putting it back on the shelf, aghast at the calories and fat content. Then I read the book, and realized that Clower is not advocating eating the whole carton in one sitting. When he describes eating a bit of blue cheese with a walnut, he tells you to bite it in half and enjoy it, not cram the thing in your mouth and reach for more.

It's been about two weeks since I started eating this way (I don't like the term "diet" either). What I can add to this discussion is how my emotions and feelings about food have changed. I've been a dieter for a long time, and have had many issues with food/eating/weight. I even saw a counselor who specialized in eating disorders for a while. In the last two weeks, I have felt great and have had no food-related guilt issues...no anger at myself for eating a cookie, no agonizing that I was going out to lunch and how would I stick to my diet, no raiding the cupboard because I was in a bad mood.

With three other people in my family who do not have weight issues, and who have healthy relationships with food, it was a constant struggle for me not to eat. The food was always there, and they were eating it, so it was hard for me not to! Even when I did cave and eat a piece of cake, I didn't really enjoy it because I felt so guilty. Now I have a few bites, thoroughly enjoy them, and forget about it. Even if I never lose a pound, these changes would be worth it to me for these reasons. FWIW, however, I have lost 3 pounds in two weeks, and I think that will continue.

[Tess]

food for thought on the French Paradox
http://dir.salon.com/travel/food/feature/
2000/02/04/paradox/index.html?sid=602203

[suchi]

We WANT people to tell us what to eat
I do not, but I guess that makes me the oddball. Like you, I am interested in the information that books like this provide, and not necessarily a "diet plan."


And this is why I'd tend to ask: Is that REALLY what this book is advocating more than anything? Portion control?
More or less...after all, if one is going to consume higher calorie foods, one must eat less of said foods if one is to lose weight. Along with other things, such as the environment and manner in which food is consumed, I would say that this is a major component of the "plan." As you mentioned, if one is already comfortably following an eating regimen of mostly unprocessed food in appropriate portion sizes, the book may not be especially valuable.

I am glad that some people have found it useful, I am only providing a dissenting perspective :p

[sneezles]

Originally posted by lorilei
If I'm already eating mostly unprocessed foods and not snacking, what does this offer to me? (big question I have)

Probably not much, certainly not enough to warrant spending $10-$13 on the book. It is a book that explains some of the science behind those processed foods that line the shelves and pantries of America, many of those things we discuss here on the board.

There are so many who need to have the exact plan laid out, every morsel accounted for and that is who this book is for. On the site for the book the message board is full of people asking how much of this or that. There is also some posts from the moderator that talk about calories and portions sizes...something the book avoids...simply because many can't get their brains around the concept that how much you eat is up to you.

Being that you're well-read I'd say don't bother buying. If you're having trouble losing weight then consider how much you are eating. If weight loss isn't what you're after

[lorilei]

Originally posted by suchi

I do not, but I guess that makes me the oddball. Like you, I am interested in the information that books like this provide, and not necessarily a "diet plan."


I think, if you read my post, you'll see that I'm not sold on the idea that I need a prescription either.

My point was -- that IS what sells books.
So, I read mine and take what I like from them. NO harm done.




Originally posted by sneezles Being that you're well-read I'd say don't bother buying. If you're having trouble losing weight then consider how much you are eating. If weight loss isn't what you're after

You've hit the nail on the head. I'm not one for prescribed diets -- since they take every ounce of "fun" out of food for me. I also hate the idea of eating fake foods.

That said, I have always had trouble dieting. Never lose a thing, it seems. So, I'm coming to the conclusion that I simply eat TOO MUCH.

The way to get that through my thick skull is going to be the matter up for debate, though. :D

[suchi]

Agreed :D

[sneezles]

Originally posted by lorilei
That said, I have always had trouble dieting. Never lose a thing, it seems. So, I'm coming to the conclusion that I simply eat TOO MUCH.

The way to get that through my thick skull is going to be the matter up for debate, though. :D

So do a self-study. For the next week write down what and how much you eat (and don't eye-ball it either-weigh and measure), tedious but extremely helpful. The next week cut your portions in half, eat much slower, don't put another bite on the fork until your mouth is empty, don't wash down your food with water (you should sip water between bites), don't serve the entire meal at once (even lunch I serve in courses, just getting up and clearing the dishes between courses makes the meal last longer). Remember it takes 20 minutes for your brain to register the food in your stomach. If after 2 hours you find yourself hungry you can eat again but if drinking a glass of water and moving on to something else makes you forget about your hunger pain maybe you weren't really hungry (as I've said this is where my glucose meter comes in very handy. There have been times when I knew I should be hungry and had some of the signs but when I checked my glucose and found it was 104 then I knew I could go another couple of hours without eating).

I would have never believed that 3 tbs of yoghurt with 1/4 cup of raspberries and 1/2 oz of bread & 1 tsp of brie could keep me satisfied between breakfast and lunch!

[lorilei]

Thanks, btw.

I've never been much of a food journaller -- but in this case, I think it would be helpful.

I hate the idea of measuring... but if I can get the feel for what a tsp of salt looks like, i can adjust the way I see a scoop of granola!! :D

[Judy K.]

food for thought on the French Paradox

Tess, I couldn't access that link. Could you post it again? Thanks.

[krhm]

Try this link (http://dir.salon.com/travel/food/feature/2000/02/04/paradox/index.html?sid=602203) instead.

[rosie_one]

Just FYI, there is a discussion about the day to day life on this topic on the Healthy Living board right now. Feel free to take a peek and join in if you like. :)

Foodfiend, did we answer your questions?

[foodfiend]

It's been great to hear about different experiences. So I would say my questions were answered. I can't say I'll start the program totally and make the dishes he suggests etc, but he does make good points about eating habits.