Can you get the smoker-smell out of an apartment?

[beckms]

My upstairs neighbors are moving out. They aren't telling the landlords, they're just going to up and leave, which will leave the landlords in the lurch. It's a much bigger apartment than ours; they've lived there for 17 years and no improvements have been made in all that time. It's in a shoddy state. BUT, I'm mulling over the possibility of swooping in while the landlords are still reeling next week and asking them if they'd be amenable to us moving up there for the same rent as we're currently paying.

OK, my initial motivation for this post: the upstairs tenants are heavy smokers...the place reeks, and the walls are filthy (and they aren't the cleanest people around). I was up there today talking to them, and I felt like I was going to suffocate. How reasonable is it to expect that it could ever be turned back into a nice, smoke-free apartment? Should we just stay where we are and let the landlords deal?

Our apartment is a two-bedroom, one bath, with a LR and eat-in kitchen. Upstairs apartment is two stories, same kitchen and bath situation, but has a DR, LR, three bedrooms, and two tiny rooms that could be used for storage.

[Cookin4Love]

If you're really sensitive to smoke, I'd let it go. I don't think you can ever really get 17 years' of smoke out of an apartment. There are some products out there--Odorzout is a good one--which will help, but anything porous will have the smoke sort of seeped into it. Painting the walls might help. What kind of flooring do they have? The smell simply won't come out of carpet. Of course, any fabric window coverings would have to go. I wonder (although it would probably be expensive) if a service that specializes in repairing smoke damage from fires would be able to help?

[Canice]

I agree - paint, carpets and window coverings really absorb the smoke. Even when it stops smelling like cigarette smoke it has a stale, sort of musty smell.

[Laura]

If they were to replace the carpeting and the pad and repaint, yes. Otherwise no. My first house that I bought the people were heavy smokers and we did all of that and it was fine, but I lived on concrete floors for about 4 months before we could afford the carpeting because we could not handle the smell left over in the carpeting and pad.

[stacy7272]

This isn't about smoke but about a previous tenant's odor. When we looked at our place it was great - only it stunk. I figured, we'll have the carpets cleaned. We've steam cleaned them about 5 times in the last 6 years and if I've been gone all day and come into my place, I still smell that smell. I don't notice it while I'm here but I know that when I have guests over that that it the first thing they smell and I can do nothing about it. It is hard for me to be living here for 6 years and still have their odor in my house!

[beckms]

I think it's all hardwood, so no carpets to clean. I don't know. It's in pretty sorry shape...and I thought our apartment was bad! :rolleyes: There's no way the landlords will be able to rent out the apartment without doing a major overhaul, so maybe we'll just watch to see what happens.

[MusicMom]

There was an article about this in the Washington Post on Sunday. They profiled a family that spent a year and thousands of dollars to rid their home of its smokey smell. Here's a portion of the article with advice from a couple of experts:

Jeff Bishop is a technical adviser for the Institute of Inspection, Cleaning and Restoration Certification, a nonprofit that certifies firms and technicians in cleaning and restoration.

Bishop said smoke odors from cigars, cigarettes and pipes (all about equally hard to get out) are among the most difficult smells to eliminate. Smoke particles are so small -- about .01 to 1 micron (a human hair is 75 microns) -- that they penetrate the tiniest spaces.

He outlines four principles for removing any odor, including tobacco: get rid of the source, clean all surfaces, neutralize remaining odors and use sealants to cover hard surfaces if necessary.

"Fundamentally, that's it," said Bishop, author of 13 books related to cleaning and restoration. "You have to get rid of that film of nicotine to get rid of the odor."
Hard Surfaces
For walls, fixtures and other hard surfaces, Bishop suggests using cleaners that include an alkaline builder, such as ammonia, and a glycol solvent (look for a chemical name with "glycol" in it, he said). Read labels carefully, because cleaners that work on durable surfaces, such as kitchen counters, may not be appropriate for wood.

For walls and ceilings, washing should be followed by a fresh coat of paint. Bishop recommends starting with a stain-blocking sealer/primer such as Kilz. The undercoat prevents nicotine particles, which are small enough to penetrate latex paint, from bleeding through.

Wood and linoleum floors should be thoroughly scrubbed with appropriate cleaners.
Porous surfaces
Carpeting should be cleaned by shampooing or steam cleaning. Sometimes even carpet cleaning isn't enough for tobacco smells, says Jim Sellers, general manager of ServiceMaster of Arlington. "The padding under the carpet may have absorbed the odor, and carpet cleaning does not clean the pad." In that case, carpet and padding may have to be replaced.

Heating and cooling systems
Nicotine odors can get into heating and air conditioning ducts. Tom Keys, president of Atlantic Duct Cleaning Inc. in Sterling, said removing such odors actually is easier when ducts are dirty.

"The best for us is to have the ducts dirty already, so the odors [adhere to] the dust, and we can remove them all together." If ducts are not dust-coated, nicotine sticks to the metal, requiring contact cleaning -- wiping the surface -- for effective removal.

Ducts lined with fiberglass insulation require specialized cleaning techniques. Nicotine leaches into insulation, so it is sometimes necessary to replace the insulation or ductwork to remove the smell, Keys said.

Smoke particles also can adhere to the inside of chimneys; thorough cleaning can remove them.
Neutralizing odors
When odors persist after the cleaning is done, it may be necessary to neutralize them.

There are two ways. One is to apply a chemical opposite of the material that is causing the odor, usually through a fogging machine that converts the chemical to a gas for maximum dispersement.

Head questions the effectiveness of those "pairing" chemicals. "To chemically counteract an odor, you must use an exact opposite," Head notes. "Since every brand of cigarette is slightly different . . . one chemical may not be effective in treating a particular brand."

However, IICRC's Bishop maintains that chemical neutralizers cover a broad enough spectrum of odors to make them "fairly effective."

Bishop and Head agree that ozone oxidation is the most effective way to neutralize smoke odors. In that process, an ozone generator converts oxygen into ozone, destroying odor molecules in the process. High-powered, whole-house generators, which require that everything that survives on oxygen -- people, pets, plants -- be removed from the home, floods the home with ozone, usually for three days. The cost is roughly $300.

TV infomercials and Internet sites hawk products and devices to eliminate the odor of tobacco. Head, who labels the Internet "the largest source of misinformation on odor issues," contends that in his 15 years in the business, he has never come across an Internet product that works.

[leebee]

Several years ago, we moved into an apartment that had been occupied by HEAVY smokers for years. In fact, our landlord told us we were the first "non-chain-smokers" to move in there in 20 years. It was mighty disgusting. We were fortunate to have 2 weeks to clean & repaint (at no cost to us--he was a great landlord!). I wanted to paint so I could choose the colors, but he paid for the paint & all cleaning supplies. Once the place was empty, the first thing I did was open all the windows. Not sure that had EVER been done! I also placed bowls of vinegar all over the apartment & several boxes of baking soda (to help neutralize & absorb the odors). I used amonia to scrub every floor, wall & ceiling--and I did that three times in the living room, because that was where the stains/odors were the worst. There was baseboard heating, so I got a heavy-duty vacuum & got all of the dust out & did my best to clean & scrub in every corner. The guy at the paint store suggested adding a little vanilla to the paint to further mask not only the paint odor, but the smoke. I did use a primer coat as well. When I was all done, it did smell good. But even so, when we walked in the apartment at the end of the day (especially in winter when it was closed up), I could still smell a slightly stale smell of smoke. Some of that was due to smokers living downstairs. Not too bad, & if we had our windows open, I couldn't smell it at all. But, I put a LOT of hard work & sweat into it. The apartment was so great it was worth it, though!

[mst]

We bought a house that a smoker lived in. We probably spent $7k to get the smoke smell out. Can sometimes still smell it. I would never buy a smoker's house again. But, I am very sensitive to smoke.

[newcook]

I used to work in insurance (was a claims adjuster). We used to use ozone treatments and I never knew a smoke odour to survive it.

Daniele

[krhm]

Gee, the "Sell This House" show I watch on A & E makes it look like a coat of paint will get rid of that smell with no problems!

I would second the suggestion of the ozone treatments, but in addition to the cleaning, new paint, etc, IF you still want to go for it. DH used to work in the hotel business, and they had those for when smokers would smoke in non-smoking rooms.

[sarah louise]

We have purchased 2 houses from smokers. The first was heavy smokers and we couldn't have lived there if we hadn't had the house totally repainted and the carpet replaced. When we bought the house we live in now the smoke smell was not heavy, although we could smell that they had smoked a little bit there. We had the carpet cleaned by a company that said they could get the smell out, and they did a good job. We primed and painted the entire house ourselves (too much work!). I also used those plug-ins for neutralizing the smoke smell and I think they helped a little, although they left spots about the plugs. I usually can't smell the smoke, except for when we had a ceiling leak. I would not be able to tolerate it if I could constantly smell the smoke. -sarah

[luv2cook]

The previous owners smoked in our house. We got rid of the carpet, Kilz'd the ceilings and repainted every room in the house. When we're gone for a while on vacation or I haven't cooked, I can still smell it.

I would NEVER ever buy a house that someone smoked in again. But that's just my opinion...