Toxic MIL's effects on her grandchild - advice?

[stefania4]

My sister's MIL is unbelievable; let's call her Zoe (far, far from her real name).

Sis has been married to Zoe's son for 6 years. Zoe has never welcomed sis into the family; she is all about her sons walking on water, and she resents any time that her (adult) sons spend with their respective in-laws. She is manipulative and self-centered.

Sis and Zoe's son now have two children. Sis has become deeply concerned about two things - the children cluing in that Zoe doesn't like Mommy, and Zoe's decided preference for boys. Recently Zoe has said - in front of her 2 1/2-year-old granddaughter - that nothing in the world makes her happier than knowing she has a grandson. She fawns all over her grandson and pretty much ignores her granddaughter, except to say "look, [granddaughter], at how cute and smart your baby brother is!" Any accomplishments of her granddaughter are met with "And the baby boy is sooo smart! He'll be outdoing his sister any day now!" Zoe chatted up my Mom recently at a family event and [in front of her granddaugher] said "Isn't it a shame they couldn't have both been boys?" My mother was flabbergasted and managed to choke out something about adoring both grandchildren before she fled to safer company (taking granddaughter with her).

Sis has learned to live with the constant slights from her MIL, but she is concerned about the effects on her children once they're old enough to realize what's going on. She's also EXTREMELY concerned about how to prevent her MIL's comments from damaging sis's daughter's self-esteem.

It's a tough situation; Sis doesn't want to cause a family rift and wants her kids to have a good relationship with all their grandparents. She has tried talking to Zoe about her behavior, only to have Zoe cry to her son (all her sons, really) about how unappreciated and misunderstood she is.

Any ideas? I'm blessed with a wonderful MIL and we never had these issues with my grandparents, so I'm at a loss for advice. All I could come up with was to minimize or eliminate unsupervised time between Zoe and the kids.

Bring it on - thanks!

[hippie-chick]

Im sorry I dont have any advice, but wanted to let you know I understand your pain. My niece has spent the past 10 years being VERY aware that her father and his parents think she is nothing because she is a girl, and her brother can do no wrong. It is very hard!

[schuh]

I'd say that if your sister's hubbie isn't backing her up, he's equally at fault.

Hubby should say, "Mom, I'm uncomfortable with you playing favorites with my kids. It's really going to hurt my daughter's feelings. If you keep doing this, we just won't be able to be around you very much."

[tulip255]

I too think it is up to your sister's husband to speak to his mother and work to fix this awful situation. He should include his siblings in this too since they too will be in the same awful situation when another granddaughter is born. (I am assuming that this is the only granddaughter and there will be more grandchildren in the future,)

[zwieback]

I agree with schuh. Your sister's husband needs to step up to the plate and tell his mother to either stop playing favorites or no more visits. I think the ball is in the husbands court right now. His wife and children need to come first, not his mother.

[honeygirl1971]

I agree with schuh. It seems that sis's husband is the only one "Zoe" would listen to anyway, and besides, he really should be standing up for his daughter!

[BeachBum]

I absolutely believe that the biggest problem lies with the husband. He needs to keep his mother in line. She may never grow to like your sister, but it is her responsibility to act polite and cordial--and his responsibility to demand it.

It seems very obvious to me that contact with MIL needs to be severely limited. She is not going to change. Although your sister may want a happy loving relationship with MIL and between the kiddos that is just not going to happen. Keep them away from her, and let hubby do most of the visiting alone.

[Laura]

Yep, what schuh said. Now, if your sister's DH is not backing her up, that is a whole different story, and your sister has the double duty of not only working on her DD to make sure she knows how special and wonderful she is and get her DH in line.

[wallycat]

The little girl will grow up not bonding to Zoe. Zoe's loss. The little girl will still grow up to be a strong, great, person.
When the boys are off doing their thing (most boys don't stick around and bond later on), Zoe will be left realizing the stupidity of her actions.

I agree that Zoe's son needs to deal with his mother but truth be told, you cannot change how someone feels....though you can ask them to limit their commentary in front of the child.

If there are other grandparents around, perhaps they can pick up the slack for her...that is what I am doing in a similar situation.

[Arete]

I was the granddaughter in such a situation. My parents just made sure to explain to me that Grandmother had "old-fashioned" ideas, that it wasn't a reflection on me, but on Grandmother, and that I was in fact a wonderful child. Unfortunately, my Grandmother was my only living grandparent (all others had died long before I was born) and it did severely affect my opinion of grandparents. I never have had "warm, fuzzy" feelings when people talk about grandparents since my grandmother was so unkind to me.

[emptyspool]

When my boys were very young we would travel a good distance to visit my inlaws. My MIL was wonderful but my FIL was always bothered by the noise, activity of little boys. He was always fussing about and not very nice to them. They were not out of control as I ran a tight ship, its just that he wanted them to just sit and be quiet. It is difficult to travel with kids and the pressure he added made for a hard time. One time I finally told my husband if he didn't say something to his dad then I would.

Much to my surprise, my quiet, soft-spoken husband told his father that if it was too much trouble for him to have the kids around then we didn't have to visit. We never had another unhappy visit.

Over the years, FIL continued to be a bit of a grumpy and one time I slipped and told the boys he was like Oscar the Grouch right in front of FIL, who didn't know who Oscar was and wanted to know. So I told him how even though Oscar was the grouchy one, everyone loved him anyway, they just understood he would always be a bit of a grouch.

FIL died many years ago, boys now ar 23,21, 17. Always wish I had the maturity and incite I do now much earlier in my life.

[Canice]

Arete, I'm curious: Did the situation cause any resentment toward your brother (on your part) or otherwise effect your relationship with him?

[stefania4]

Wow - as much as I appreciate the advice, I'm sorry this has been a more common experience than I would have thought.

To clarify, Sis's DH does speak up for her and their children. However, it a) always leads to a highly visible crying jag and guilt trip from Zoe, and b) threatens the relationship between him and his wonderful father, who unfailingly defends Zoe. Tough spot to be in.

Wallycat, your advice sounds like what I've told my sister. A friend with a toxic mother told me that she basically didn't allow unsupervised visits until her daughter was in third grade or so. Her daughter (now 13) now spends time with her grandmother but has decided on her own that Grandma has some very different ideas about the world. I also reminded my sis that, although one of our grandmothers told us constantly that adult singlehood was to be avoided at all costs because we should be able to find someone to marry, neither one of us married long past college adn we were both quite selective about the process, so obviously our grandmother's words didn't really stick.

[mbrogier]

This is a slightly different take on the same theme, but the lessons I learned might help your Sis.

My brother and I are adopted. We are not blood relatives to each other, but that doesn't make a difference in this story (just saying for the curious ;)

My Dad's mom had one blood grandaughter and the two of us. She fawned over my cousin from an early age. She loved us, too. At Christmas, she would get more attention, better presents (although my mom would get stuff to make it look like things were equal when we were little). It didn't take long before we were old and smart enough to realize what was happening. It didn't enter our minds that it was because we weren't blood. Our other grandparents didn't treat us that way. We did NOT love Granny any less. We did not resent my cousin. (I have reunited with her as an adult, and we email constantly and visit.) Granny lost out in a richer relationship with us, but I think she figured it out later on.

Granny died of Alzheimers. My cousin's parents went through a nasty divorce, and she was not available to visit Granny that much. My brother and I did. I KNOW my Granny knew that we did at first. I did see a few times she recognized us later. My mom never told us why Granny didn't come to our house although she lived close by (the excuse was we lived on a dirt road), or that she believed like she did. She just made sure that Granny behaved.

Kids have big hearts and in most cases will do the right thing even though adults don't always act like adults. Zoe might change her opinions on her own, but Sis and her husband just have to make sure she behaves properly. Don't let her get away with the whining and the guilt trips. Figure out what it takes to make her stop those. Telling her it isn't about her might do the trick.

[ChristieinMB]

Originally posted by stefania4

To clarify, Sis's DH does speak up for her and their children. However, it a) always leads to a highly visible crying jag and guilt trip from Zoe, and b) threatens the relationship between him and his wonderful father, who unfailingly defends Zoe. Tough spot to be in.

I also agree that the solution lies with her husband,
I bet the crying and quilt trip will stop if it is not effective. Also the "weak" father will learn this also. How is he so wonderful if he tolerates and enourages such activity? Sounds cruel, but looking at this differently may help the relationship.
Christie

[lisas3575]

I'm with Christie. Sounds like there's some "tough love" needed with MIL and, consequently, FIL. I think it was E. Roosevelt who said we teach other people how to treat us. If MIL and FIL start reaping the natural consequences of their behavior, it may motivate them to change. Or maybe not. :( Best wishes to your sister, Stephanie, that's a really tough spot to be in.

[Arete]

Originally posted by Canice
Arete, I'm curious: Did the situation cause any resentment toward your brother (on your part) or otherwise effect your relationship with him?

It had no effect on my relationship with my brother. He never did anything to antagonize me about it (my mother would have whacked him a good one if he had :D) and I always understood that it was really just about grandmother, that it really didn't even have anything to do with me personally. My parents were very good about talking to us about it and explaining it so that I could accept it without feeling like it meant I was a bad person.

And FWIW, I think my grandmothers feelings towards me had less to do with my being female, than the fact that I didn't act like a "proper little girl" since I liked sports and horses more than dolls. But regardless of the reason, it was clear that she didn't think much of me. You should have seen some of the gifts I got at Xmas! Gee grandma... did you get mine from the Goodwill?

[clairea]

Being intimately familiar with a similar suggestion, I think a "passive" approach is less likely to cause grief for everyone involved, particularly your sis, her DH and her kids. I can't see any benefit in your sis confronting Zoe, as she is bound to just wind up upset again and with Zoe complaining about her to the sons. It isn't likely to bring about a different result this time. Don't let Zoe spend significant amounts of time with the kids without your sis or her DH around (DH is better as he can gently correct his mother each time she makes an unacceptable comment about boys v. girls). This will help minimize her effect on your niece's self-esteem. Your sis needs to make sure she never does anything to indicate to her kids that she and Zoe don't get along. She can't control what Zoe does, but she can control her own actions. It is amazing how quickly kids will pick up on these kinds of family dynamics, and at that point Zoe will realize (or not) the damage she has done to her relationship with both of your sister's children by favoring one child and by showing them that she does not care for their mother. The children involved in the situation I am familiar with are both early-elementary school age at this point, and already have demonstrated that they are more comfortable with the other set of grandparents and that while they love the "problem" set of grandparents they have already learned not to expect much in the way of support from them.

[luv2run]

stefania4,

I'm so sorry for the situation your sister is in! Unfortunately, my MIL is very similar except she always favored her unbalanced son's children and made it ever so clear to everyone. DH is the youngest of three sons. The unbalanced son I refer to has been in trouble since he was a teenager; drugs, alcohol, prison and even his latest fiasco of impersonating my husband while being arrested for his 7th DUI (long story--:mad: ). DH and I have tried every route possible and she, of course, always reacted as the injured party with the tears and so forth.

Now, fast forward several years to the present time and we live in a different state with our children being 12 and 8. We basically have chosen to place MIL on ignore status (FIL as well because of his apathy). The only son MIL has consistent contact with is the son in prison (who is in prison on the charges stemming from the DUI and identity theft with my husband's ID among other things). The only grandchildren she has consistent contact with are that same son's children, two of whom she and FIL have on-again, off-again custody of. Occasionally, we will hear a sob story from her. When my mother called to tell her DH had suffered a heart attack and was in the hospital, she could only manage enough sympathy to say it was my fault for all the stress in his life!

To make a long story short, there is no easy answer. Ultimately, Zoe will reap what she sows. She will miss out on great relationships with both of your sister's children. She is only hurting herself in the long run. Just like my MIL will be (sooner now rather than later), she may be old and alone.

Debbie :cool:

[wallycat]

In reference to siblings hating/resenting the other.
My father worshiped my sister; I was second class (we are fraternal twins). I never resented my sister. I realized it was an issue I had with my father.
Not sure if this is helpful.

[MrsReber]

Wow, this all sounds familiar. My own MIL prefers boys and treats the girls differently. It's not as drastic as your sister's MIL, but the sentiment is there. She also says, without thinking, that she is so much more drawn to her grandsons.

I refuse to let my children be hurt by this so I downplay MIL's role in their lives. We honestly don't see her all that often, even though she lives close. She frequently makes comments about how we spend every holiday with my family (not true- we alternate) My mother is wonderful with them and loves all her grandchildren equally.

I honestly believe that children will make up their own minds about a person. It's tough to remain neutral at times, but it's necessary to keep calm and not react in front of the kids. They will see for themselves. My kids are 3 and 4 now. They are much closer to my mom, who is loving and consistent with her feelings. The kids love their other grandmother and are happy to see her, but they don't have the same type of relationship. Kids are so much more in tune with feelings and actions than we think.

We have only let MIL babysit once (DH made the call- it was out of my hands as I was at work and he insisted our kids needed to stay home from daycare :rolleyes: ) She doesn't spend time alone with our kids, especially after she told my 3 month old daughter "I'll spank you if you cry at me" and later was teaching her "say 'No' to daddy! Go on!" because she thought that was funny, despite our efforts at telling her NOT to do that. We had various other incidents of her doing things that DH and I did not agree with, too. I honestly don't care what she thinks about any of it. I will do all I can to ensure my children's well being.