Usps

[doggerham]

The carrier just rang my doorbell. I went to answer it, my 13-year old, medium sized, half blind dog, who barks. The carrier backed off and when I opened my door, she threatened my dog with pepper spray. I told her to get that away from my dog and approached her to get my package. She ran down the steps, back to her truck and got in. I followed and told her to give me her package. She told me to back off or she would call the cops. I took my hands off her truck, asked for my package again, and she drove off. Taking my mail with her.


OK, I *guess* I understand her retreat. But not giving me my mail? If she is that afraid of dogs, she's in the wrong **** business.

[MISSINDI]

Sounds like she overreacted a bit, huh? I could see if your dog was lunging after her, frothing at the mouth or even had a menacing bark, but a plain, simple, "the-doorbell-just-rang" bark shouldn't illicit that type of reaction. Maybe she's had a bad experience in the past, but I'd agree, if that's the case, she might be in the wrong business. ;)

[Canice]

Her reaction seems extreme but don't underestimate the dog experiences mail carrers have on a regular basis. Yes, including "she's blind" and "she wouldn't hurt a fly." I would have stepped outside to get my mail, closing the dog indoors.

[doggerham]

Originally posted by Canice
Her reaction seems extreme but don't underestimate the dog experiences mail carrers have on a regular basis. Yes, including "she's blind" and "she wouldn't hurt a fly." I would have stepped outside to get my mail, closing the dog indoors.

I understand that -- but she never even gave me the chance to close the door -- just yanked out the mace after I openend the door upon which she was knocking -- and at that point, I'm not turning my back on someone carrying mace. Sorry, but no one points any kind of a weapon at my dog without me reacting.

I did call the USPS and went over to the station where she is based and made a complaint there. Not that it will do any good.

[misskitty100]

I have the NICEST mail carrier and the NICEST German Shepherd (in my opinion:D ). Anyway, one day my mail carrier comes to our door and rings the bell. Of course, as always my dog barks her head off etc. I always put her in our family room and close the door to that room before opening our front door. It is just easier for me as opposed to "blocking" the open front door with my body to keep the dog inside. Anyway, my mail carrier says to me that my dog absolutely terrifies her. She then proceeds to tell me she was bitten the week before for the 2nd time by the same dog one cul-de-sac over from where I live. So I guess I can understand your mail carriers reaction. Especially if not a dog lover!! Anyway, I reassured my mail carrier that my dog is nice and would probably give her kisses if she came in but of course she barks if someone rings our bell or knocks on the door. I also told our carrier in the future that any packages she has for us can be left in front of our garage door and she doesn't need to bother coming to the front door and ringing the bell.

Sorry about your mail carrier driving off with your stuff and threatening to call the police -- very strange behavior on her part but think about how many people are employed by USPS....they all can't be gems like my carrier:)

[HejazSunKat]

Originally posted by doggerham
no one points any kind of a weapon at my dog without me reacting.

Well, not only that but she could have sprayed you with it. Sounds like this woman was seriously spooked by a previous experience with a dog and hasn't gotten over it. I can understand that they must encounter all kinds of things both from people and pets as they make their rounds and they have a right to protect themselves but, the fact of the matter is - dogs bark, especially if strange people come into their territory and she ought to appreciate that in her line of work. Maybe she needs a desk job if she can no longer handle being out on the street. I don't get why she didn't give you the package when you came out of the house (presumably your dog was now behind the door?) where the dog couldn't harm her (as she apparently thought was going to). Is this person your regular mail carrier or someone new? I'm just wondering if you're going to have to worry about this on a regular basis. If so I'd make sure I got some answers and assurances from her supervisor and not just let it go at a complaint.

[AndreaU]

Originally posted by HejazSunKat
I don't get why she didn't give you the package when you came out of the house (presumably your dog was now behind the door?) where the dog couldn't harm her (as she apparently thought was going to).

Ditto. I do understand that there are many incidents with USPS employees and dogs... but to just flee without delivering your package (which is her job, right?), that's bizzare. Sounds like something deeper is at hand.

I love my dogs, too. They are the biggest, sweetest, kissiest goofballs I've known. However, they are both quite protective as well. They do bark, especially when there's a knock at the door. USPS carriers should be protective also, but I think she took the situation to extremes (holding mace? threatening to call the cops?). My carriers (USPS, UPS, FedEx) know my house by now- I order a lot from catalogs/internet!- so they don't even bother knocking. They just leave boxes on the porch and leave, not even giving the dogs the chance to react. Of course, sometimes a signature is required. When that is the case (rare for me), I shoo them off to the backyard or into the office temporarily and I sign for my goods.

Anyway, please keep us posted (no pun intended) on what becomes of the situation. I agree with HejazSunKat... maybe this is not the job for her!

[jtoepfert100]

Sorry to hear about your mail. Funny you should post this. DH came in on Saturday and said "Have you ever heard of a mail person who is afraid of dogs?" Our mailman came when he was walking our puppy (not large, doesn't bark, IMO friendly-looking). The mailman cowered and ran from my DH and said that is a really mean looking dog, would you mind taking her in another direction?" It floored my DH but I assume he's had some bad experiences. Sounds like our guy took the right approach, though. I can't believe your mail carrier had mace out as you opened the door! I'm sure she may have had a bad experience, as well, but she definitely overreacted.

[HDgirl]

Originally posted by jtoepfert100
"Have you ever heard of a mail person who is afraid of dogs?"

How about one afraid of cats? We received a letter from our mail carrier that my kitty plays too rough and we need to put a box on the house. We thought it pretty funny until DH= went outside with some papers to put through the mail slot. I stood in the foyer to watch. As soon as DH= opened the screen door, Artemus ran into the foyer waiting. When he started to put the 'mail' through the slot Artemus had put his whole front leg up to his shoulder though the slot. Claws were out and slashing.

We put a box on the house.

[ChristyMarie]

Originally posted by HDgirl


How about one afraid of cats? We received a letter from our mail carrier that my kitty plays too rough and we need to put a box on the house. We thought it pretty funny until DH= went outside with some papers to put through the mail slot. I stood in the foyer to watch. As soon as DH= opened the screen door, Artemus ran into the foyer waiting. When he started to put the 'mail' through the slot Artemus had put his whole front leg up to his shoulder though the slot. Claws were out and slashing.

We put a box on the house.

Ok, now that is hilarious!!! :D

As far as the woman pulling out mace and refusing to give you your mail...um, what the heck? You following her to her truck so she could do her job away from your dog was threatening enough for her to threaten to call the police????? :rolleyes:

When I had a very protective Great Dane with a huge bark my mailman would come up, ring the bell, drop the package and run back to his truck. Quite comical but I met him on walks (with my dog who was just fine then) and he explained how many times he had been bitten. I don't blame them for being afraid but I think she overreacted.

I hope your complaint gets a response but I doubt it will.:mad:

[leebee]

I may be the only one to dissent, but I think that she may have started out fearing a strange dog that was barking and ended up fearing that dog's owner. You said yourself that you understood her retreat...and yet you followed her, and your hands ended up on the truck? Does that not strike you the slightest bit aggressive? Did you secure your dog before you followed her, or was it still in the open? You sounded pretty upset about her pointing the mace at your dog. She doesn't know your dog isn't going to hurt her. I have a doorbell barker & I always secure him before opening the door (if I don't feel safe opening it without him there, it doesn't get opened). It's not her responsibility to know the nature of your dog (or of you, for that matter). She's just supposed to trust that the wildly barking dog in front of her is a nice poochy--until such a time that a dog tears into her? A dog doesn't have to be huge to cause damage, either. I know my spaniel could hurt someone pretty badly.

Of course, I wasn't there, so I apologize if I have entirely misunderstood.

[HejazSunKat]

Originally posted by HDgirl
As soon as DH= opened the screen door, Artemus ran into the foyer waiting. When he started to put the 'mail' through the slot Artemus had put his whole front leg up to his shoulder though the slot. Claws were out and slashing.


ROFLMAO. :D That is too funny.

[Escher]

You followed her to the street... Then you put your hands on her truck? Huh... sounds to me like someone was definitely acting aggressively...

[landk]

Originally posted by Escher
You followed her to the street... Then you put your hands on her truck? Huh... sounds to me like someone was definitely acting aggressively...

I was wondering when someone else was going to point this out because I thought the same thing. Go ahead and blast me but I'm just being honest.

[landk]

Originally posted by leebee
You said yourself that you understood her retreat...and yet you followed her, and your hands ended up on the truck? Does that not strike you the slightest bit aggressive? Of course, I wasn't there, so I apologize if I have entirely misunderstood. [/B]

I also agree with this and I also apologize if I'm not understanding correctly but there are two sides to every story.

[BarbaraL]

Sounds like she over-reacted to me; especially when (I assume) you closed the door and left the dog in the house to follow her to the truck. However, I used to dog-sit the sweetest Samoyed ever known to man. I was outside with the dog when the mail carrier came, and she started barking and growling; I was shocked! She only reacted that way with the mail carrier, so I made sure she was locked up when he came. Her owners were also surprised; the dog and their mail carrier loved each other; the carrier even gave her treats through the mail slot. So you never know with a dog.

[Cookin4Love]

A dog trainer we worked with a few years ago gave me his explanation for the phenomenon of why an otherwise docile dog will go nuts over the mail carrier. First, the dog naturally barks when the mail carrier comes to the house. The mail carrier goes away. The dog has no idea that the mail carrier was leaving anyway, so the dog's thought process is something like, "Dog-1; Mail carrier-0." This is repeated daily, with the dog building up more and more confidence in its ability to dominate and control the mail carrier's behavior. It becomes so deeply ingrained that the dog will probably never stop barking at the mail carrier. I think it's less of a problem now with community mail boxes, but when the mail carrier had to visit every single house, the dogs really were able to construct their own little power trips!

[Escher]

Originally posted by Cookin4Love
A dog trainer we worked with a few years ago gave me his explanation for the phenomenon of why an otherwise docile dog will go nuts over the mail carrier. First, the dog naturally barks when the mail carrier comes to the house. The mail carrier goes away. The dog has no idea that the mail carrier was leaving anyway, so the dog's thought process is something like, "Dog-1; Mail carrier-0." This is repeated daily, with the dog building up more and more confidence in its ability to dominate and control the mail carrier's behavior. It becomes so deeply ingrained that the dog will probably never stop barking at the mail carrier. I think it's less of a problem now with community mail boxes, but when the mail carrier had to visit every single house, the dogs really were able to construct their own little power trips!

That's really interesting, and makes a lot of sense. Very cool.

[stefania4]

Isn't the mail supposed to be delivered despite hurricanes or fire or "dark of night"? Is it really acceptable to deny someone their mail because of a barking dog? My parents said their mail carrier won't deliver their mail (to their curbside mailbox) if a car is parked in the way, if the snow plow piles up snow around the curb, etc. In both cases I would file a complaint.

[mbrogier]

If someone sprayed me and my dog with mace, the sprayer would soon become the sprayee. That stuff is horrible. (I had a can burst in my hot car, and I jumped into the shut up car. :eek: )

I see too where following her to the truck could be seen as an agressive act. She doesn't know you from Adam's housecat. There are people in this world that would beat someone up for threatening them with mace. (now being sprayed underservedly and giving the attacker a taste of their own medicine is in my book, self defense. ;) )

My family has always had lots of dogs. The UPS people and meter reader don't like us. I just corraled the dogs, shut them in the house, and then called out the "all clear" to the delivery person. Our meter reader had a unique approach. The dogs loved him because he carried Oreos. :D

[cminmd]

I was watching the Dog Wisperer (best show ever!) and an owner had a dog that snapped at a carrier. The carrier refused to deliver mail to the persons house AND TO THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE OWNERS HOUSE! Betcha that makes you popular at the next block party! The rational was that the dog was loose in the yard and could reach though the fencing into the walkway area of the neighbors yard. Very small So Cal yards.
Cesar (said Dog Whisperer) says that it is not a good stable behavior for a dog to bark at everyone who comes to the door, but that the dog is nervous and agitated because it feels like it needs to control and secure the situation. If you are the dominate "Pack Leader" then your dog will happily relinquish the need to control the environment and will not get aggressive when strangers come to the door. Also, he said 99 % of dogs do not get enough exercise so they end up expending their pent up energy in inappropriate ways.

[syzygy]

Originally posted by stefania4
Isn't the mail supposed to be delivered despite hurricanes or fire or "dark of night"? Is it really acceptable to deny someone their mail because of a barking dog? My parents said their mail carrier won't deliver their mail (to their curbside mailbox) if a car is parked in the way, if the snow plow piles up snow around the curb, etc. In both cases I would file a complaint.

I don't think a complaint would do anything. It seems to be "the rule" that the homeowner must make the access to the mailbox easy for the postal worker or they won't deliver. My mailbox is across the street from my house and whenever it snows, we must clear away the (plowed) snow from the curb so that the mail truck can safely get to the boxes without the driver having to get out of the truck or we don't get our mail. (We also have to clear the snow away from the fire hydrant -- the fire dept does not come out to do that) Same thing happens if someone parks their car in front of the boxes, the driver is not required to get out of the truck to try to access the boxes.

[ellielk]

Originally posted by stefania4
Isn't the mail supposed to be delivered despite hurricanes or fire or "dark of night"?

Yeah, right...that was in the old days when mail delivery was a function of the government. Now, it's privatized and they can set whatever rules they like.

I live where there's a community cluster of mail boxes. There's no 'outgoing' slot so you push your outgoing mail to the back of the box and hope the carrier pickes it up.

It also used to be that the carrier would put oversized mail, that didn't fit in the box, at your door. Not any more, I've had things (videos and clothing deliveries) stuffed into my mailbox so tightly that I've had to pry the packaging off and pull the stuff out. There's a lip around our side of the box and none on the back, loading, side. Or, they just take the package back to the post office and you have to pick it up - which means taking off work early to make their hours.

There's not much 'service' left in the postal service.

[Escher]

Originally posted by ellielk
Yeah, right...that was in the old days when mail delivery was a function of the government. Now, it's privatized and they can set whatever rules they like.


A) USPS is a branch of the federal govt, though it is independently funded by the stamps you purchase...

B) Cause we all know how efficient gov't orgs are... :rolleyes:

C) If it _were_ a private company, you are free to choose a competitor if you don't like their svc.

D)http://www.billcasselman.com/express_smaller.jpg
Sometimes considered the motto of the United States Postal Service, even used to refer to the Pony Express rider shown above, this is in fact a translation of a line written in the fifth century BCE by Herodotus, the Greek writer known as “the father of history.” His master work was On the Persian Wars composed between 500 and 479 BCE. In this famous passage, Herodotus praises the stamina and persistence of horsed messengers in the service of Xerxes, king of Persia.

E)The Post Office Department was transformed into the United States Postal Service, an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States, in 1971. The mission of the Postal Service remained the same, as stated in Title 39 of the U.S. Code. So if you don't like it, blame Nixon then or Bush today.

You have now been schooled.

[donleyk]

Artemus had put his whole front leg up to his shoulder though the slot. Claws were out and slashing.

:D :D How funny! :D

[gertdog]

Originally posted by Cookin4Love
A dog trainer we worked with a few years ago gave me his explanation for the phenomenon of why an otherwise docile dog will go nuts over the mail carrier. First, the dog naturally barks when the mail carrier comes to the house. The mail carrier goes away. The dog has no idea that the mail carrier was leaving anyway, so the dog's thought process is something like, "Dog-1; Mail carrier-0." This is repeated daily, with the dog building up more and more confidence in its ability to dominate and control the mail carrier's behavior. It becomes so deeply ingrained that the dog will probably never stop barking at the mail carrier.

I think this is exactly why Gertie barks at the mailman! She runs to the window and starts barking the minute he hits our block, and stops the second she sees him turn the corner. With the FedEx guy, she's totally different. He knows her name and always has biscuits in his pocket. She "happy barks" for him, like "here I am! don't forget about me! biscuit, please!"

While I love dogs, I'm very leery of strange dogs (even little ones, having grown up with a mean Lhasa Apso). I can see a mail carrier being justifiably fearful, but it seems like once you were outside (assuming the dog was inside) things could have calmed down and she could have given you the package, unless you were chasing/yelling at her or something like that. Others have mentioned your hands on her truck as potentially aggressive, but I think it totally depends on the context- you could have been leaning on the side of the truck in order to speak to her through the window, or you could have been standing in front of the truck with your hands planted on the hood, preventing her from leaving- totally different scenarios!