Till Death Do Us Part...

[Escher]

Or, rather, till the (money-sucking) lawyers do it for us...

''Til Death Do Us Part' Is Dying Out
Friday, July 22, 2005
By Jennifer D'Angelo
In some weddings, "'til death do us part" is going the way of "to honor and obey" — that is, out the window.
Vows like "For as long as we continue to love each other," "For as long as our love shall last" and "Until our time together is over" are increasingly replacing the traditional to-the-grave vow — a switch that some call realistic and others call a recipe for failure.
"We're hearing that a lot — 'as long as our love shall last.' I personally think it's quite a statement on today's times — people know the odds of divorce," said New Jersey wedding expert Sharon Naylor (search), author of "Your Special Wedding Vows," who adds that the rephrasing is also part of a more general trend toward personalizing vows.
Naylor said killing the "death vow" doesn't mean that people don't take their marriage promises seriously. Quite the contrary.
"People understand that anything can happen in life, and you don't make a promise you can't keep. When people get divorced, they mourn the fact that they said ''til death do us part' — you didn't keep your word in church (if they had a church wedding). Some people are in therapy because they promised ‘til death do us part' — it is the sticking point in the healing of a broken marriage. The wording can give you a stigma of personal failure."
This is why Naylor prefers vows like, "For as long as our marriage shall serve the greatest good."
(snipped for brevity)


If I ever hear a couple with the above vows, I'm taking my gift back.

Pansies.

[Cookin4Love]

Exactly. Why bother. Anyone who's been married (or otherwise engaged in a lifetime commitment) knows that the feelings come and go; it's the commitment that keeps you hanging in there. It's true that "anything can happen in life." That's why you make a promise to stand by each other, no matter what it is. God knows, there have been times DH and I would have gone our separate ways were it not for our promise to each other to never speak the "D" word. Somehow, when you know you haven't given yourself an out, you just find a way to work through it. (And before I get spanked by someone, I'm not saying that one should hang out in a marriage in which any family member is abused. In that case, take out a sharp pair of scissors, grab the goodies, two quick snips...and head out the door!)

[AndreaU]

"For as long as we continue to love each other????" What a cop out, IMO. Sorry... I know I'll catch some h-e-double-hockey-sticks for that, but marriage is not a game in which you can just give up and quit. It's a committment. It takes a lot of consideration before you do it and a whole lot more work after you do it. It's not the easiest thing you'll ever do and it's not for everyone either. (BTW, I agree with Cookin's abuse disclaimer- in that instance, yeah, you need to get out.)

[greysangel]

what a cop out is right. Although I'm not really shaking my head at the lawyers..more like the therapists who say:
++++++++++++++++
Some people are in therapy because they promised ‘til death do us part' — it is the sticking point in the healing of a broken marriage. The wording can give you a stigma of personal failure."
++++++++++++++++

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Cookin4Love]

Originally posted by greysangel
++++++++++++++++
Some people are in therapy because they promised ‘til death do us part' — it is the sticking point in the healing of a broken marriage. The wording can give you a stigma of personal failure."
++++++++++++++++

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ack! I was so incensed by the first part that I didn't even absorb this. I can say from personal experience that, no matter how broken a marriage is (again, with the abuse disclaimer), it can be fixed. It doesn't happen quickly, which goes against the grain of our instant gratification mindset. It may even take years. But it can be good again--it can be wonderful again. Hanging in there, working on it, making it whole--THAT gives one a feeling of personal accomplishment.

[Gecko]

Originally posted by AndreaU
"For as long as we continue to love each other"

They might as well have said until something better comes along :rolleyes: :eek:

[CL addict]

Originally posted by Gecko


They might as well have said until something better comes along :rolleyes: :eek:


Or how about, "Until the ink dries on the marriage certificate."?

[Cookin4Love]

Originally posted by CL addict



Or how about, "Until the ink dries on the marriage certificate."?

That might be too long. What if the best man is a really hot guy?

[JenB]

I have a cousin who got married in the early 70's. Their vows were
"as long as we both shall love." Still married. And they weren't flighty-types. They both came from very stable, traditional farm families. So this doesn't seem to be a new idea.

[CL addict]

It's not so much the wording that disturbs me. It's the people who are anticipating divorce on their wedding day. My mom told me repeatedly from a very young age, "Never marry with divorce in your heart." She was speaking from personal experience. She told me that when she got married, she told herself, "Well, if it doesn't work out, I can just get a divorce." Sure enough, several years later, she was divorced.

Jeanette

[Escher]

I doubt it's new. But the article implies it is catching on.

It's spineless, wishy-washy, hedging your bets, weak-kneed, unable to commit, weathervane-for-a-moral-compas pansies like this I can't stand.

I don't quote bible verses often, but this seems relevant:
"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm -- neither hot nor cold -- I am about to spit you out of my mouth." (Revelation 3:15-16 NIV)

[lhall]

Originally posted by JenB
I have a cousin who got married in the early 70's. Their vows were
"as long as we both shall love." Still married. And they weren't flighty-types. They both came from very stable, traditional farm families. So this doesn't seem to be a new idea.

It's a whole lot older than that!!!

DH didn't really want traditional wedding vows, he felt they were just the same old thing. I also refused to say 'obey'. So, I did some research. I found some 14th Century French wedding vows that we used. Our vows had quite a bit of 'wiggle room' in them. Not that DH and I take out commitment lightly. Both of us are in it for the long haul.

Leigh

[colleency]

Maybe these people should have term marriages, a contract for 10 years with a renewable option. When they got to the hard parts, they could just say, "Well, it's only another 7 years."

Or a contract for raising children: 18 years beyond the birth of the last child.

[CompassRose]

I think the old Irish tradition of vowing for a year and a day on the feast of Lugh, then making it more permanent if that worked out, had a lot to recommend it.

Or maybe term marriages would be practical -- like loans. One year, five years, ten years or Lifetime Guarantee.

[Kristilyn1]

The Old Vow: "Til Death do us part"
The New Vow: "Until I decide I shouldn't have married you"

The Old Vow: "In sickness and in health"
The New Vow: "through a cold, and maybe the flu, as long as you
don't suck up too much sick time, money, etc"

The Old Vow: "For Richer, for poorer"
The New Vow: "Until I land a really rich one, or suck you dry,
whichever shall come first"

Why Don't you just register for a divorce lawyer? Please.

Kristi

[CL addict]

BTW, Cookin4Love, I know you were being funny about the best man, but I've actually heard stories about things happening between bride and best man, or groom and bridesmaid. :eek:

[landk]

Originally posted by CL addict
It's not so much the wording that disturbs me. It's the people who are anticipating divorce on their wedding day. My mom told me repeatedly from a very young age, "Never marry with divorce in your heart." She was speaking from personal experience. She told me that when she got married, she told herself, "Well, if it doesn't work out, I can just get a divorce." Sure enough, several years later, she was divorced.

Jeanette

I know someone who this applies to. This is years and years ago, both young and she got pregnant before they were married and her family talked her into marrying him with the thought in mind that if it didn't work out, just get divorced. Well, it was a very ugly marriage and on top of it they brought another child into the world. They finally got divorced but it took almost 3 years for that to be completed. I can not describe how ugly it was and what it did to those children. No one in that family is the same today - one bunch of messed up people and it is sad.

[Lillith]

I used to think that people didn't get married thinking, "well, if it doesn't work I can always get a divorce" but now I'm not so sure. I think if people put as much time, effort, and consideration into the marriage as they do the wedding, there wouldn't be so many divorces.

[lorilei]

Why get married at all if there is no commitment?

Maybe it all comes down to this:
Marriage is work.
Work isn't as much fun as play.
Ergo, make it so that marriage isn't so much work.

(IMHO - a little bit of work at the forefront kind of solves this problem)

[Schmee]

I once knew a guy who told me 2 weeks before his wedding "Yeah, we'll be getting a divorce soon." I was horrified by his attitude and asked him why he was going through with it when he already knew it was doomed and he told me it was too hard to call it off since everything was paid for, etc. He figured it was easier to go through with it and then get a divorce!!!!!!!
I think a lot of people probably get them selves into situations that they don't know how to get out of and don't want to waste their money/parent's money, and disappoint everyone.
So Sad.

[Kahlico]

Originally posted by Kristilyn1


Why Don't you just register for a divorce lawyer? Please.

Kristi

I used to work with a divorce attorney who would joke about standing in front of City Hall to pass his cards to newly emerged married couples.

Sad but almost true now days.

The divorce that my ex wanted was way too easy to obtain.

~emilie~

[Cookin4Love]

Originally posted by Schmee
I think a lot of people probably get them selves into situations that they don't know how to get out of and don't want to waste their money/parent's money, and disappoint everyone.
So Sad.

Some of them just jump on a Greyhound bus to Albuquerque! It is too bad that there is so much emphasis placed on weddings that couples feel unable to back out or slow down. I don't know what the answer is, but I do think your point is valid. Sad, but valid.

[luv2run]

Originally posted by Gecko


They might as well have said until something better comes along :rolleyes: :eek:
I think this is what Brad Pitt was thinking--:rolleyes:! Unfortunately, I think he left the "something better" behind when he left Jennifer Aniston!

Debbie :cool:

p.s. If you can't tell, I think Ms. Jolie is just short of yesterday's trash--:eek: !

[Laura B]

Originally posted by Kahlico

I used to work with a divorce attorney who would joke about standing in front of City Hall to pass his cards to newly emerged married couples.


There is a divorce firm in NC that sets up shop in the lobby of the Register of Deeds office in Raleigh on Valentine's Day and gives all couples going in to get their marriage license $50 (the cost of the license).

I used to do a lot of real estate closings and was always having to go there to record deeds. On Valentine's Day I saw these guys, and I just couldn't believe it. A friend and I joked that we should go in together, get the money, and then sneak out the back door and go have lunch. :D

[colleency]

Originally posted by Laura B
There is a divorce firm in NC that sets up shop in the lobby of the Register of Deeds office in Raleigh on Valentine's Day and gives all couples going in to get their marriage license $50 (the cost of the license).

Ick. I don't think I'd accept that "gift."

DH and I actually had vows stating how hard marriage would be and how we planned to work at it and make it the most important thing in our lives.

15 years today.

[jtoepfert100]

Congrats, Colleen - how wonderful!:)

[Lighthouselover]

Marriage, the latest item in our disposable society.



Congratulations Colleen.

What advice do you offer?

[littlelion1961]

It seems like my husband and I could read each other's minds; I actually made a game of it and rather than put into words an idea that arose, I would wait and see if he could pick up on it. He died last Wednesday, after 42 years of marriage. My soul weeps for those couples who refuse to strive toward perfection. We had a few hurdles, lots of joy and many laughs. Amen. ~Paula

[Cookin4Love]

Paula, deepest condolences on the loss of your husband. What a difficult time this must be for you. It sounds like your 42 years were wonderful.

[tamawrite]

Add me to the list that needs a barfing smiley here. Why get married, if you don't think it'll last?

I have said "'till death do us part" twice. The first time, I meant it with all my heart but abuse (not physical beating) parted us instead.

The second time, I said it to the right guy. :) :) :)


(((Paula))) I am so glad you had 42 beautiful years, and my prayers are with you now.

[CL addict]

Paula, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I imagine you have a great deal of wisdom to share with those who do take their vows seriously and want to make it last.

Jeanette

[oceanjasper]

Paula, I get choked up just thinking about losing someone special after 42 years together. It sounds like you had a true blessing. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[colleency]

(((Paula)))

[Lillith]

Dear, Dear Paula,
I'm almost right behind you....DH and I just celebrated our 36th anniversary. We have 3 beautiful children and also experienced years of "a few hurdles, joys, and laughs". Every couple fares differently. I hope the many happy years and wonderful experiences that you and your beloved DH had together sustain you through the difficult times ahead.

[littlelion1961]

Thank you for your comforting words. I am blessed with a large support group and I am at peace with his passing. God bless ~Paula

[jmarie]

With the new wedding vows it almost seems like a significant other would become an insignificant other.

Paula, I am truly sorry for your loss. We will be celebrating 25 years this year...I can't imagine the loss you are feeling.
Joyce

[Peweh]

I just got married in June and had instructed the JP (hubby and I are not church-goers) to say "Death will not part us". Not that either of us couldn't remarry, God forbid something happens to one of us, it just felt like a nice pledge; Anyway JP reverted to the traditional "as long as we both shall live" so I guess I deferred to him.

[mbrogier]

My husband and I wrote our own vows, but they did include "as long as we both shall live."

The state of marriages is very depressing. No one expects to last. So sad. My in-laws have been married for 36 years. My husband's grandparents were married for 64 years. It's nice to see such dedication and lasting love.

My parents divorced after 29 years. My mom is extremely hard to live with, and dad just got so tired of being alone. She pouts if she doesn't get her way, and it is hard to deal with because she never admits it. I really hate it, but at least he tried--for 7 years. She thought for years that he was cheating on her. Not. He just couldn't get close. She still thinks she is the victim. I love my mom, and I don't think telling her all of this will change anything, so I leave her in peace. She loves being by herself. My dad found his match after the divorce and is getting remarried. I really like his fiancee. Because of what happened with my parents, I can understand how sometimes divorce is the best option. My dad does take care of my mom--giving her a lot of money and making sure she is ok. They were not compatible at the end at all. My mom got fanatical with her religious beliefs and became another person. She would not let my dad not believe the same as her. I learned a lot of what not to do from them--but my dad's handling of this was really admirable. He just lets her put all the blame on him, and he never tells anyone (other than his fiancee) that her story isn't the correct one. ( I am glad they were married, or I wouldn't be the same person. My biological half sister is a stripper. I shudder to think of what my life might have been. There but for the grace of God.)

Paula, I am so sorry about your husband.

[Wendy w]

((((((Paula))))) I'm so very sorry about your loss.

As some of you may know, I am in my mid-forties and have never been married. I have never done so because of the high divorce rate in my family, and have never met the right person. I refuse to settle because it is expected of me. I have great respect for those who hang in there and work on their marriage. I haven't ruled it out, but I can tell you that if I ever do, I will only do it once.