Need legal info ASAP

[little_bopeep]

First, let me acknowledge that whatever information I may receive here should not be construed as "advice" and that the giver of the information is in no way responsible for how I use it. That said...

I don't have time to mince words and be delicate...I have 2 issues that I need help with. The police are somewhat less than helpful; either that, or I just can't accept that they aren't actually able to help me.

1) With regard to trespassing: My son (19) and my husband do not get along, and my husband has issued the edict that my son is not allowed in my home. It seems to me that I have every bit as much right to dictate who is and who is not allowed in my home. Bottom line: Can he prevent my son from entering legally, and if he does enter, is my husband able to call the police and have him removed?

2) With regard to disciplining my younger child (11): Does my husband have the right to lay his hands on my son without my permission? He is not the bio father, so it seems to me that I have sole discretion about the method of discipline, and that I should be able to prevent him from touching DS. Things are getting out of hand here. The police have as much as told me that discipline is discipline, but I consider it abuse when bruises occur.

Before you ask, no, I don't have any place to go or any money to do it with. If I did, I would have done it long ago. The shelters here are so horrible that I can't imagine subjecting myself or my son to them. I'm trying to go back to work, and when I do I can try and get out.

[LaraW]

2) With regard to disciplining my younger child (11): Does my husband have the right to lay his hands on my son without my permission? He is not the bio father, so it seems to me that I have sole discretion about the method of discipline, and that I should be able to prevent him from touching DS. Things are getting out of hand here. The police have as much as told me that discipline is discipline, but I consider it abuse when bruises occur.



Don't really have any advice for you on either issue, but maybe if you have an instance where your son has bruises, you can get your doctor or your child's teacher to help? They are mandatory reporters if they suspect child abuse, and may be able to get Children and Family Services (or whatever it is called) involved and that may help, if the police are not helping.

(((Susan)))

[beckms]

No advice, just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and your family and I hope you get out as fast as you can when that becomes possible. :(

[JenniferJJ]

I'm not a lawyer, but I have a little bit of experience to the second one. (I witnessed abuse.)

But, just a comment on the first. Based on your second post, I would assume (and I apologize if I am wrong), that your son and husband have a violent relationship, if not physical, at least verbally. Whether or not you have the right to say that your son can be in your house, it just doesn't seem like a good idea. It sounds like he lives someplace else. It sounds like it would be a better idea for you and your other son to visit with him during the week at a fast food restaurant or have sandwiches at his place.

Anyway, on the second comment, this is what I would do: Call your department of social services. Ask them what they consider abuse. I would think that marks that leave bruises would qualify. Then have your son tell your teacher - s/he must report it. Also, ask the social worker at social services what you can do. This is what I did: My SIL was just repeatedly hitting my nephew - just looked like at out-of-control animal to me. She did hit him on the face. I called DSS to ask 1)what is abuse and 2)what can I do. They told me that just hitting a child is not considered abuse but hitting on the face is because it could cause brain damage. They wanted me to report it. Unfortunately, I was not able to do that: I'm single and felt like if DSS came to my brother's house because of me, my family would disown me. Then I'd have no family and would also lose contact with my nephew. She really wanted me to report it, but after realizing I wasn't going to, she told me to talk to him about it the next time I saw him and ask him if that has happened before and if it ever happens again and he needed someone to talk to and I wasn't around, he could always talk to his teacher.

It would seem to me that you should be able to get a restraining order, but maybe you've tried that or maybe TX is different. I know someone well who had one against him in his divorce, even though he never hit his wife. There was no investigation or anything - he was just told he had to leave his house. He told me that there were too many cases where by the time they got done investigating, the person being abused was dead or too far abused. So, this guys soon-to-be ex-wife just wanted him out and all she had to do was file and he had 45 minutes that evening to pack up some stuff while a police officer watched him.

[Beth]

I'm not an expert in this area -- I did some childrens' rights work in law school, but it's been a number of years and I can't say I dealt with a situation like this one. You do need to get some help. The thing that speaks loudest is that things sounds like they are too rough and getting worse ("Things are getting out of hand here. The police have as much as told me that discipline is discipline, but I consider it abuse when bruises occur.")

Abusive situations do have a natural tendency to get worse over time. Manipulation can also be part of the situation, and you going back to work could threaten the contraol factor -- if that is what is going on. Consider that you may upset what he thinks is the balance and that things could get worse before you are prepared to make a move to better. I really thingk you need to talk to someone about an emergency plan, just in case, as well as a longer range plan.

Now, as to your specific questions, if the 19 yr old son is not a dependent and living in your home, then your husband can probably say he is not allowed. But you also have the right to say he is allowed as your guest. Husband can call the police, you can tell the police the son is there as your guest. Police will not really be able to resolve the issue as a legal matter. They can make some suggestions, and if things get ugly, someone could get arrested, but my fear would be that once the police are gone, things could get worse -- if only because you have challenged his authority in front of the police. Sounds like he has a need to be in control and if you challenge that and make third parties see that he isn't, he could turn on you as well as the older son.

As to the younger son, yes, I would be concerned. Document the bruises. Take photos and hide them or give them to a trusted person. Even better would be to take your son to a doctor, teacher, principal or school counselor you can trust and explain the situation. Tell them you are not getting support from law enforcement and need to document the situation while you make plans for an escape. The potential problem with this would be that anyone of these professionals would be required by law to make a report to CPS. What I don't know is whether CPS would work with you in a situation like this to talk to you and your son, perhaps examine him or see photos while at the school or doctor's office rather than coming to your home. If they feel there is a threat to the child's safety, they will have to take action.

When I was in law school, the steps usually began with counseling and parenting classes if the parents' were willing to work with CPS. If only one parent is a threat and the other parent is cooperative, CPS can take legal action to have the threatening parent removed from the situation and access to the child restricted. There are things to be considered in this situation -- CPS will represent the state and may (but not always) have a guardian or attorney appointed for the child. They would not represent you. That might be fine, but situations could arise where you would want representation. Hopefully not in this situation. The other thing I would be concerned about is how your husband would react to legal action being taken to restrain him. Do you think he could become more violent, and would changing locks be enough?

The board is so large that I'm sure someone will have better and more specific advise, but you are in a complicated situation. If I am reading your post correctly, it could become explosive. Maybe it's not that bad, but I don't want it to get there. You need someone with experience to help you through this. The police are not the ones who can do that job. I know some fine people with the women's shelter here, but I'm about 4 hours away from you. Have you talked to a womens' center up there?

[Beth]

I think the suggestion that you and your older son just agree that it is best if you see each other away from your home until you can change things is an excellent one. Don't throw lighter fluid on a flame. Do the things you can to keep things calm until you can make the change you need to.

[ChristieinMB]

Do you and your husband both own your house? Who is on title?
BTW, I am not an attorney, I also don't know the laws of Texas, I agree with the other post, maybe it is best for now that you see our older son away from the house. It may not be fair, but I see no good in bringing him into the bad situation at your home now.
Do you need your husband's financial support to stay in the house, is your older son self supporting? Do you have any family you can go to? You must remove your son from this house, but I know you know that, I'm just trying to find a way. Will your husband go to counseling so a third party can tell him his discipline is not right or does he not care? I think your son telling a teacher might be good, but you also might lose custody of your son, which is not what you want. Oh well, you can tell this upsets me.
I will pray for you and your sons well-being.
Christie

[little_bopeep]

Thanks, everyone, for your kind words and advice. Mine is a very complicated situation right now! As for as DS1 is concerned, the biggest issue is that he's completely homeless right now...so I can't meet him at his place. He's slept outside the past 2 nights because I can't bring him here and can't afford to put him up anywhere. I've been trying to get emergency shelter for him, but am having little luck because of the overcrowding right now. My husband doesn't even want me to give him food, but there's no way I'll let him starve.

That brings me to our money issues. We're in deep caca financially, and we both agree that my going back to work would only help things. He may be a lot of things, but a male chauvanist he is not. He does have an unresonable desire to be in control, tho. Right now, we have one working vehicle, so I'm pretty much at his mercy there. He'd make sure I got to work just fine, but he won't allow me use of the truck to take my son to try and get help. Our suburb isn't on a Dallas busline, so he's pretty much trapped here.

And for my youngest son, I definitely hear what you're saying about CPS and the teachers being mandated reporters. I've even threatened to have CPS remove him from the home the same way I had my first husband removed for slapping my handicapped son. But he evidently thinks that either I won't do it or he's bullet-proof because he hurt Rob again today when I wasn't in the proximity. I don't want to move him too far from where we are now because he's in a very good special ed program at school, and it would be a baaad idea to disrupt him even more. He's bipolar and emotionally disturbed (which our homelife definitely isn't helping), and the school is the only constant positive he has.

I'm so depressed. Why, oh why do I pick losers like this who are willing to hurt children??? Hurt me, but leave my innocent kids alone.

[KristiB]

I just want to give you a {{ big hug}} and let you know I'm thinking about you and your boys :(

[lindrusso]

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. Is there any way we can help? Is there anyone - family or friends - that can help you get out and get on your feet? Not that you haven't thought of every possibility already, but it seems like the sooner the better.

((((Susan))))

[jmarie]

Just wanted to send you a big hug. Can you go to Legal Aid and get some information?

[stefania4]

I'm praying for you and your family.

My best advice is to get to a free legal service (e.g. Legal Aid). My concern about talking to the department of social services (DFACS in some states, CPS in others, DSS in others) is that they could remove your son from your custody if they deem it appropriate. Please talk to a lawyer before talking to the government.

[cooknmom38]

Just a word of advice...

DO NOT WAIT until you get a job or enough money to leave... leave NOW!. Tomorrow could be too late.. trust me~ where there is a will there is a way.

You must have a family member close by that you and your son can stay with, or a close friend. I am a supporter of a group called Shelter our Sisters here in New Jersey. There must be some organization like that in your area that you can contact for help.

Just think about how it is affecting your youngest son and how unhappy or upset he must feel. If you dont do it for yourself then do it for him.

My best friend of 14 years was murdered a year ago. She was a victim of domestic violence. (We did everything we could to help her get out and she didnt. She always said the same thing.. she had no $ and no where to go. We offered her everything from $ to a place to stay but she never took us up on the offers.)
She layed in a coma with a fractured skull in 3 places, brain dead for 8 days, until the doctors took her off of life support. She was beaten in front of her 3 year old daughter and left in a pool of blood to die on her garage floor with her little daughter kneeling by her side crying when the police finally found her. She was 38 and she was my closest and dearest friend. I miss her tremendously.

Dont let your fears or uncertainty about taking that important step of freedom hold you back. Do it now, for you and your sons. Its going to be tough, but you can do it~ and seek out the help of professionals.

[funniegrrl]

GET
OUT
OF
THAT
HOUSE
NOW

You cannot wait, I don't care if you have to leave with only the clothes on your back. Call your local social services office, call the YWCA, call Legal Aid. If they don't have programs to help women and children leave abusive homes they will know who does, and you may need a restraining order. This man is heartless and a criminal to boot. He may not hit you at this time, but he obviously hits your son and he emotionally abuses you. You cannot afford to wait until he does something that PERMANENTLY damages your child. He has already inflicted abuse that will emotionally scar him for the rest of his life, and the way his stepfather acts is affecting his learning of appropriate behavior. Abused children grow up to be abusers.

I cannot say strongly enough that you have to get away from that situation as soon as possible.

[Beth]

My concern about talking to the department of social services (DFACS in some states, CPS in others, DSS in others) is that they could remove your son from your custody if they deem it appropriate.

The law in Texas presumes that it is in the best interests of the child for the child to remain with the family whenever possible. As long as Susan is not abusive and is working and trying to get help to correct the situation, I don't think they would remove her son.

Susan, to keep your son, keep him safe and to keep you safe, you do need to find a way to break the cycle -- starting with either finding a way to remove your husband from the home or for you to get out. You are probably safer to get you and your son out. Leave, and don't look back. The legal stuff can get addressed later. As long as you are feeling helpless and unable to move, you are under his control. It doesn't sound like that is a safe place to be.

Also consider that not only is your son's medical condition not helping the family situation, but that your family situation is not helping his condition. I have read a lot about bipolar disorder and how it can be triggered by traumatic events in youth. It may not cause it, but it might be triggered in people with a predisposition and I wonder if it might not be made worse.

The best way to end your depression is to stop kicking yourself and to start making changes -- but do it in a smart and deliberate way.

[Cookin4Love]

I have to agree--you MUST get out NOW. I speak from experience. I lived with a husband who was verbally and emotionally abusive and very controlling. We lived on eggshells. The first time he hit me was nearly the last--it took five men to pul him off of me after I lost consciousness. I was alone in a strange city (we were on vacation). The police dropped the children and I (bruises, blood, and all) off at the airport. I found a way to get home. Like you, I had no job, no money, and no car. I had to swallow my pride and accept help and lots of "I told you so's." The important thing is, though, I have my life and so do my children. Hugs to you and your children. I will be praying that you find a way to keep yourself and your children safe.

[Melman]

Susan, Check with your local United Way organization as an option. I know in our area, there are probably a half dozen or more organizations that are supported by the UW that deal with spousal or child abuse...and even children's learning centers that may be of assistance with Rob's issues. They could potentially have a variety of organizations that could help you in many ways. There also should be some organization that could help with your older son's issues as well.

I think someone else also asked. Do you have any family in the area? Is there anyone who could help you? A friend? Family? A church??

I'll be thinking about you. I know you...you're a strong woman and will do whatever you need to do what's right for all of you!!!

[cooknmom38]

I'm so depressed. Why, oh why do I pick losers like this who are willing to hurt children??? Hurt me, but leave my innocent kids alone.
__________________
Just another Susan


First of all You are not "Just another Susan" you are Susan, a mother, a daughter, a friend, possibly a sister, you are unique, you are smart, you are beautiful, you are a living and breathing soul who has a lot of great qualities about herself. You are special and you are a strong woman. You are not " Just another Susan". You are about to TAKE CHARGE of your life and your children's lives in the next day or 2, or the next week and for that you will be a HERO.. to yourself and to your children. You CAN do it and you WILL succeed.

You MUST muster up all of your strength possible and take charge of your life now. Just do it. Ask as many people as you can for help. Dont feel ashamed, dont be afraid. You will be surprised at where your inner strength can come from when you finally take that step towards taking control of your life. If you never ask for help you will never know how many people there are that would love to help you. My saying is " you wont know if you dont ask." No matter what its about just ask..the response may be surprising. It wont be easy.. but you will make it through. Dont get discouraged either. Keep moving foward.....You need to, look at your children, they need you too.

Right now you need to contact the school authorities maker them aware of your situation, and ask them for help. You need to contact a social service or organization in your area make them aware of your situation and ask them for help. You need to possibly get a restraining order on your husband make the police aware of your sitauation and ask the police for help.
You need to get a plan of action together..organize your thoughts and follow through on it.
Dont look back because looking back gets you nowhere. Put on your blinders like a race horse, look towards the future and, concentrate on accomplishing what youre setting out to do.... which is gaining control of your life, leaving an abusive relationship, doing what is best for YOUR children and being not "Just another Susan" but being SUSAN the couragoeus woman, the Loving strong mother and the hero for your children and yourself. You can do it.. I have faith that you can.

Oh and another thing.. Its Not "hurt me but leave my children alone".....

Its not that at all! Its: DONT TOUCH ME OR MY CHILDREN....EVER!
You and your children are human beings not punching bags for someone to take out their frustrations on.... that is UNACCEPTABLE.... Remember that!

Be strong and Change your life now...
~A~ xo

[mbrogier]

I am praying for you and your boys, Susan.

Anyone who would hurt a handicapped child would do much, much worse. You need to get out NOW. You also need to make sure he doesn't see this stuff on your computer.

[Beth]

Cooknmom38 -- I wanted to respond to both the out of control and getting worse and the what you quoted. I'm glad you followed with those points.

Susan, please see what we are seeing. Those few words alone spoke volumes. I have to feel that whatever you are saying, it must be more so. I want to PM you or email. Is that safe for you?

[little_bopeep]

Y'all are so cool...how did you get so smart? :) I really do appreciate all the sweet words of support. <it's lump in the throat time here> The school is aware of what we're going through, as is the counselor (she's also a social worker, but I haven't seen too much evidence that she's very proficient at it) that he and I have been seeing for 2 years. In fact, we have an appointment with her tomorrow; I don't plan to go in there and try any more to fix my marriage...I plan to outline my strategies for the the time we have to spend together before I can move out. If he wants to be a d*ck about things, let him. But at least he'll know that one person knows all if I can't speak for myself. It'll certainly get his attention when I mention the restraining order and having him removed from his home if he touches Rob again.

No fears about this being on my computer. He doesn't snoop...and even if he did, it might do him good to see that other people agree with me about these things. He won't come unglued and start anything---truly, I'm not just saying that. He thinks he knows so much about everything. He doesn't know jack. But he's about to remember what it's like to be alone with a cat and a hamster.

[doggerham]

I dont know your area, but here are some possibilities:

http://www.dallas-divorce-lawyer.com/family_violence_texas_shelters.htm

The Women's Shelter P.O. Box 1207 Arlington TX 76011 Business #: 817-548-0583 Hotline/Crisis: 817-460-5566\

Genesis Women's Shelter Drawer G Dallas TX 75208 Business #: 214-942-2998 Hotline/Crisis: 214-942-2998

· The Family Place 4211 Cedar Springs Suite 100 Dallas TX 75219 Business #: 214-559-2170 Hotline/Crisis: 214-941-1991

· The Salvation Army - Family Violence Program 5302 Harry Hines Dallas TX 75235 Business #: 214-688-4494 Hotline/Crisis: 214-688-4494

Denton County Friends of the Family P.O. Box 640 Denton TX 76202 Business #: 817-387-5131 Hotline/Crisis: 817-382-7273 Toll Free #: (800)572-4031

New Beginnings Center, Inc. 218 North 10th Street Garland TX 75040 Business #: 214-276-0423 Hotline/Crisis: 214-276-0057

Collin County Women's Shelter 2701-C West 15th Street Suite 212 Plano TX 75075 Business #: 214-422-2911 Hotline/Crisis: 214-422-7233

[Robyn1007]

Susan,

I think you have received some wonderful advice from others here. PLEASE get out soon. I don't have much but you and Rob would always be welcome in my home if you need it. NOBODY deserves to be abused by someone they love, or once loved. No matter what happens, remember you have friends here on the BB willing to be here for you whenever you need us.

Hugs and prayers to you and your children.

Robyn

[colleency]

(((Susan))) Be strong. Keep yourself and your children safe.

[little_bopeep]

My sincerest and most heartfelt thanks to everyone who gave me such encouragement!! Things are going pretty well since I posted here last. Pat and I went to our counselor, and we got all kinds of things aired that have been festering for a long time---mostly my feelings of betrayal and frustration. When it came down to me telling them that I was done and ready to file for divorce, he became quite meek and apologetic. We've had a very quiet week, and it's been quite nice. I'm trying to get him to go see his parents for Thanksgiving alone, but he hasn't made up his mind. I could certainly use the break from him, and I feel pretty sure that he'd benefit from a break from Rob and me.

So we're still in a holding pattern, that's OK for right now. As long as I can feel safe and calm, I can make better plans for my future...I don't have to work in panic mode.

Again, many thanks to you all!

[Goin' Coastal]

Thanks for keeping us posted - You've been on my mind and in my prayers.

[Beth]

Glad things have calmed down.

[Tammy2268]

I don't post a lot, but after reading your thread, I have thought of you SO much, and wondered how things were going. Am glad to hear that things are better, so that in turn, you wil be able to think more clearly about how you would like to plan your future...please keep us updated...you have a lot of support on this board...GOOD LUCK!!!

[kash]

Please take care of yourself because if you don't then who will take care of your kids. Be strong and get help as often as you can. Don't be a martyr and sacrifice yourself for anyone. You are very important!!! And you are special. Don't trust your husband that easily especially when things are going well. Make sure the changes are real and constant. Take care. Am praying for you!!

[GingerPow]

I'm praying for you and your boys, Susan. I am also praying that your husband is able to be the kind of man worthy of you and your sons.
Your story brings back alot of bad memories for me. I'll skip the details, but I will tell you that my situation ended up okay - but what it took would fill this page.
Be strong, do what is best for your children first, don't take any s--t from anybody.
Find help- keep looking.
Talk to your sons, tell them how important they are to you and you will find a way to fix this.
Tell that husband of yours that this is your house too and you will decide who lives there and doesn't. Tell the husband to go to anger therapy, tell him that your children are not scapegoats for his anger issues.
YOUR CHILDREN ARE NOT SCAPEGOATS FOR HIS ANGER!
Be willing to get him the hell out if he does not abide by what you tell him.
Do not be lulled into a false sense of security because he has quieted down. This has to last for a long time, and he has to show true remorse for any healing to begin. If this is going to truly improve, your husband has to take this seriously and work on his own behavior. If he starts up again, you need to face the reality of being married to an abusive person. They are often repentent, then abuse again - that's the standard pattern.
You have received incredible advice in the posts before mine. Don't forget it in case he starts up again.
Be strong - you can do whatever you must to protect your boys - you brought them into this world and they will always be your sons. You just married this guy, it's up to him to have that mean something.
God bless you, and I'm praying for your sons.