? about divorce - how do you know?

[hlao23]

In a marriage relationship, how did you know when to say "enough, I'm not going to deal with this anymore"? I know it's different for different people but I could really use some food for thought.

Our situations isn't as cut-and-dried as it could be. He's not physically abusive, not an alcoholic. He's a wonderful man who, over the course of the last 5 years, has morphed into this unhappy creature. He swears he's not unhappy but - whatever it is - it's contributing to my being miserable. We've been to counselors, pastors. We were very happily married for 8 years and then started this downhill slide. I don't want to end the relationship but I don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling this way either.

No children involved...just a dog who cowers when we fight.

[donleyk]

I can't help, I just want to send hugs....

[engineer]

Don't know about divorce but just wanted to throw out that he could be clinically depressed. DH was starting to be a real downer all the time which was totally out of character - he was also chronically tired. I sent him for a sleep evaluation which found nothing but when going over the tests with his Dr. they decided it might be a chemcial problem due to chronic pain. He is now on a new medication and is doing much better - less pain, not as tired and over all happier and better to live with.

[Meganator]

I don't have experience in this situation, but if you've been to counselors and haven't been able to identify what the problem is that has made him change, then you can't address it and try to fix it. If he is denying there is a problem, yet both of you are miserable, it sounds like a situation that at least one of you - you - could be happier not being together. I don't take such decisions lightly, but on the other hand, life is too short to stay in situations that seem to have no resolution - especially when there are no complicating factors such as children involved.

[Beth]

You've been to counselors. Have you ruled out any physical problems? Depression has been mentioned, but what about a sleep disorder? Who can be at their best if they don't get sleep? And those with the sleep problem don't generally know it. My DH had sleep apnea, but didn't know it. I fianlly pushed him to go in for a sleep evaluation after I had been up half the night a few times llistening to him breathe and wondering when he would stop andd whether he would start again.

So many things that could go awry -- might be good to have him schedule a physical and make sure everything is as it should be.

[Vanessa]

How long has he been unhappy? WAs it a sudden thing or just things added up which created this unhappy attitude.
My first ? is do you love each other? You might have gone to counselors or pastors but maybe they have not pinpoint the problem.
Maybe you can take time alone analyze and be able to help counselors with your findings.
He sounds like a nice man something hard to find in life. If he is unhappy and making you miserable and this has been going on a long time then you might want a bit of distance see if things change. Maybe as time has gone by even though you started in love you have grown apart? Or maybe he feels that way? You guys need to communicate and yes you shpuld not be miserable either but its really a personal decission if you want to try and fix it or not.
I think when theres love theres always hope.

[GingerPow]

Some years ago I knew a lady who was a Marriage Counselor and Health/Sex Education teacher.
In her training and through her experience she learned this - Women in a troubled marriage tend to fantasize about two things:
1. Another man who does things differently than the one she is married to.
2. Being by herself altogether, enjoying a peaceful, happy life.

If the thinking is in terms of the first, there is still hope - it indicates that a woman hopes the husband will change and the situation improve.

The second indicates feeling emotionally disconnected from the husband and the marriage, and wanting out. That one is a sure indicator that it is over.

Hope this helps you to start realizing where you are emotionally. I agree with previous mentions, your husband might be depressed. I wonder, though, if that wouldn't have been caught during your counseling sessions?

Best of luck to you both.

[tbb113]

My mother used to tell me that 'when the bad days outweigh the goods days its time to get out.'

I would suggest that you do follow up with the suggestions above to see if there is a medical issue before you decide what to do.

[beckms]

Hope this helps you to start realizing where you are emotionally. I agree with previous mentions, your husband might be depressed. I wonder, though, if that wouldn't have been caught during your counseling sessions?

Best of luck to you both.

I think that many depressed people are very good at "putting on a good face." They can dupe counselors if they are not ready to seek help.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

[Arete]

{{{{{{{{{{{{hlao23}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

No advice except to repeat what Ann Landers (or was it Dear Abby?) always used to say: "Ask yourself, 'Am I better off with him or without him?'"

Good luck and I hope you find a way to bring joy back into your life!

[Grace]

My mother used to tell me that 'when the bad days outweigh the goods days its time to get out.'


I was trying to come up with some kind of response, after having been divorced myself, but my own answer was far more obvious than things are for you - my ex was very, very, very abusive (mostly emotionally, but physically too). In some ways I'm glad of that because it made my decision very, very easy. Your position sounds much more difficult and I don't envy you the decision you have to make one bit.

But Tyra's advice (or Tyra's mother's advice!!) is perfect, IMO. That seems like a really good rule of thumb. Either way, there is no easy answer for you and I send you all my good wishes and hopes that you can figure out whatever's right for you. {{{{{{{hlao23}}}}}}}

[ChristyMarie]

If there is no abuse or cheating I think you know it is over if you truly don't love him anymore and you can imagine your life without him - and that scenario makes you happy.

It is never an easy decision. I might suggest individual counseling to find out what you want in life and what is missing from your marriage if the couples isn't working.

Good luck with this.

[generic]

Have you told him very clearly that your sadness/discontent is causing you to seriously consider divorce? Men really do have to be hit over the head with the seriousness of a situation. You can't hint and infer like you do with your girlfriends.

I'm not saying you should use divorce as a "threat" to get him to change. Just that he needs to know it has gotten that bad for you. If you had 8 happy years of marriage, he probably won't want to lose you and your shared history, and that might motivate him to seek more help.

I'm really not doing a good job of saying what I want to say, but my experience has been that you have to be VERY blunt with men. Also, sometimes a person can be so lost in their own pain that they can't see how much someone they love is hurting.
My heart goes out to you and your DH.

[Terri_A]

Even after he cheated while I was pregnant...and many counselling sessions...it just isn't as clear as you'd like it to be sometimes. I did leave because I didn't want a child to be raised in the tension and unhappiness.

There's a book that helped me a lot. I don't know the author, but the book is called CrazyTime and it's all about making the decision to get divorced and also the process once the decision is made if you do divorce. I've loaned it to several friends...one marriage is still in tact, two, unfortunately, have ended.

My personal advice is always - you'll know when you can't take anymore...and then it's time. But until then, I feel like you should try to save it.

[miller88]

Wow, I'm in a similar situation myself. Nothing specifically wrong in the marriage, we just don't "fit" anymore. There is definitely love there, I'm simply not IN love anymore and I don't think I ever will be.

Like you, I am having a hard time with knowing if it's time to end it. Also have no kids and a dog. 5 year anniversary is in a month.

Curious to see what advice others have to offer.

[GingerPow]

Having been married twice, I've learned something interesting. Tina Turner was right - what's love got to do with it? I have learned that you can still feel love for a person, but know that you do not want to stay married to him. That's something you just know in your gut. hlao23, take it one day at a time, talk to your husband, and the day will come that you will know just what you want your life to look like.

[wintersummer]

I don't have any specific words to offer, just a reference with lots of studies. There's a national group that meets annually for the "Smarter Marriages" conference. I first learned of them because you'd read items in the press during their meetings, for instance, of studies that had been presented. Several studies released back years ago caught my attention. One was the study that asked a series of about 20 questions and the answers had shown to be a 90% correct indicator of the happiness and strength of a marriage. I've just found some of the work that's come from this group to be interesting and insightful. I also became interested in this work because I live in a college town and have lots of contact with college age students, many struggling with decisions of "should I marry", "is he the one", "should we live together". For some reason, a number of younger girls seem to have sought me out to talk through their questions related to love and marriage. By no means am I a professional, I just think I'm someone who is not their mother and can give an outsiders view of their situation.

Take a look at this list and see if there's anything here that might be of help to you as you consider these difficult questions.
http://www.smartmarriages.com/articles.html

[jenniferW]

[QUOTE=generic]Have you told him very clearly that your sadness/discontent is causing you to seriously consider divorce? Men really do have to be hit over the head with the seriousness of a situation. You can't hint and infer like you do with your girlfriends.

I totally agree with this statement. Although I wouldn't threaten to leave unless your prepared to actually do it.

My heart goes out to you. I know from experience how painful this decision can be.

[oceanjasper]

Try to remember that it is not your responsibility to ensure his happiness. You can't change him or your relationship on your own, so eventually you need to think about what you want to do for yourself. Are you willing to accept your relationship for what it is right now and be happy with that choice - for the rest of your life?

I decided to end my marriage after facing the reality of what it had become. I had a great friendship with my husband, but not a marriage. He told me he was happy with the way things were, but I wasn't. I went to counselors on my own and almost all of them questioned why I had come to them to try and "fix" my husband to make the marriage work. I had to start looking at myself and why I was struggling so much with the situation.

In the end, I asked myself if I was willing to accept my marriage the way it was and I wasn't. The answer became pretty clear to me, but that doesn't mean it was an easy thing to do. I have no regrets about my decision. I am SO much happier now and I can only hope that he is too.

[Cookin4Love]

DH and I have been married for almost 22 years. We have not always been in love throughout that time; there were even a few times that we didn't even like each other that much. However, we made a decision to stay married no matter what (there was no abuse-we just weren't feeling the love). Along with that decision, we made a decision to be happy together and act like we loved each other, even when we didn't feel like it. We got through the rough patches, and are probably more truly "in love" now that we have ever been--and it grows through the years.

I guess what I'm saying (and this is my belief--not meant to put anyone else's down) is that love is a choice that you can make; none of us has to be victimized by our feelings. When you eliminate the word divorce from your heart, your mind, and your mouth, you find a way to work through it. Happiness is a state of mind (again, I'm making a disclaimer in the case of abuse). I can say that, even when I couldn't stand our marriage, I couldn't imagine a life without DH. I knew that leaving him wouldn't bring me happiness; therefore, we might as well stick together and be happy with one another.

Hope this doesn't come across as preachy or holier-than-thou; it's not intended that way. I just wanted to share a different perspective.

[Goin' Coastal]

May I ask how old he is? It seems to me an awful lot of men hit their forties, and life isn't what they imagined what it would be when they were in their twenties. They aren't as far a long in their career, or family life. So many people I know in this age group have had problems. Some men get a sports car, some have an affair, some get depressed. It seems to hit men harder than it hits women. I think you need to have a heart to heart with him. Certainly you don't want to spend the rest of your life miserable, but you owe it to him and to yourself to find out what happened.

[Peweh]

Hope this doesn't come across as preachy or holier-than-thou; it's not intended that way. I just wanted to share a different perspective.

I like your perspective, Cookin4Love!

I also do agree with other posters, HLAO23, that it sounds like your DH is possibly battling depression. I hope you work it out and whatever the outcome, that it's best for you.

[olchik]

If I were you, I would wait for some time. You lived happily together for 8 years. And this fact has to be taken into consideration. All families have different situations. It's life and it doesn't go smooth all the time. Probably you should not see each othe for some time, like going somewhere separately. And then who knows? After not seeing each other maybe everything will be ok again.

[hlao23]

Wow! Thanks so much everyone! You guys are a little scary about some of the stuff you're picking up on. ;)

Age-wise: Yup...42 and extremely unhappy with his options for employment.
We are both so aware that feeling "in love" isn't all important and have tried to look at these struggles as a learning experience.

Regarding the threat of divorce - DH is ALWAYS the one who brings it up. A few years back I tended to ignore it or just tell him it wasn't productive to talk about it. The past year or so, I've started continuing the conversation when things take that turn: What would you want to do in that situation? Where would you like to live? etc. That always starts him back-pedealing very quickly ("oh, this is just a bump in the relationship. I'm sure we'll work it out").

Thanks so much for sharing your ideas, experiences and resources. :)

[slawrence]

A friend asked me that question once. "How do you know it's time?" I told her, "If you don't know, then it's not time." For me it was very clear and I had no regrets. Had I jumped prematurely--who knows? I do know that when the time was right, I was very clear. (And still not sorry to this day!)
Good luck-these times are tough and unfortunately, no one can help with the final decisions. Trust in yourself-you will do what is right for you, whether it is now or a few months down the road. Feel free to email me if you want to 'talk' a bit more. Sue