January Bread Thread

[HealthyinMN]

I have not seen a bread thread for awhile so I hope no one minds one!

One of my goals this year is to get a little more involved in making bread. I've made my fair share of plain ol' sandwich bread, but I would like to expand into the other fun stuff that is out there!

I figured today would be a good day to start and made a recipe that I've looked at so many times but seemed too complicated - Marbled Rye Bread. Once I sat down and read through it a couple times it didn't seem to bad and off I went. I was short one of the ingredients, Caramel Coloring, but luckly the author gave some other suggestions and it worked. The dough was not as dark as it was in the pictures, but at least there was a difference in color! The dough was pretty easy to work with, although I was afraid it was a little dry (which never happens to me, usually it is always too sticky!) Since it was pretty cold in the house, the first rise took just over 90 minutes, but the second was just under 60. I really liked the end texture and the flavor seemed spot on to what we were looking for.

I posted some pictures on the blog (http://desertculinary.blogspot.com/2006/01/can-we-call-it-success_01.html) and I should be able to get the recipe up tomorrow.

Anyone else planning on playing with some dough? I would also like to get the hang of getting some decent steam going during the first few minutes - any suggestions? I've read some people spritz or some preheat a pan and pour hot water in as soon as they put the bread in.

[Beth]

I am trying out my new Pro 600 KA Mixer with pasta and bread recipes.

The most demanding bread recipe I have that I really care about is Bernard Clayton's Italian Batter Bread. It is a basic loaf made of only flour, water, salt and yeast and is written for an electric mixer and you knead by machine for 25 minutes at high speed. Well, the 600 says to use only speed 2 for kneading. I made my 3rd attempt at this recipe today -- 45 minutes at speed 2. :p Holy Toledo! By the time I finished all that, the dough rose really fast. I punched it down and let it go again. :D This third one is getting closer to what I remember (wish it hadn't been so long since I last made it).

I've also made a couple of batches of rolls and have another Italian recipe and the Fresian Sugar Loaf on my list to make soon (it's been so warm here that the thought of the Sugar Loaf is not making me swoon to the degree it would in the cold).

As for steam, I never found the pan of water to be effective enough to be worth the hassle. I felt it was the mot effort, the greatest risk of getting burned and the least effective -- at least in my oven. I have dedicated a small spray bottle to nothing but clean water and mostly use that - right at the start and again a few minutes later. I have also thrown ice cubes on the bottom of my oven -- okay on a solid floor, but not sure it's good if you have an exposed electric element. I read that somewhere and thought it might keep the steam going longer than just the spray. It's fun to watch them dance around as you close the door, but I'm not sure if it has added a lot to the bread.

[susan_foster]

I figured today would be a good day to start and made a recipe that I've looked at so many times but seemed too complicated - Marbled Rye Bread. Once I sat down and read through it a couple times it didn't seem to bad and off I went. I was short one of the ingredients, Caramel Coloring, but luckly the author gave some other suggestions and it worked. The dough was not as dark as it was in the pictures, but at least there was a difference in color! The dough was pretty easy to work with, although I was afraid it was a little dry (which never happens to me, usually it is always too sticky!) Since it was pretty cold in the house, the first rise took just over 90 minutes, but the second was just under 60. I really liked the end texture and the flavor seemed spot on to what we were looking for.


I think that they came out beautifully. I am totally impressed. I'll definitely be looking for when you post the recipe.

As for me, I think my next experiment will be from one of my new cookbooks. I think I will be trying Honey Oat Bread from The Ultimate Peanut Butter Cookbook.

Susan

[yomomma]

I plan to make the Pide in this month's issue when the Nigella seeds arrive. I'm still making Lavosh - I loose all control w/ this bread (as w/ most breads) b/c I love that crunchy/crispy it gives. I made lots of cinnamon rolls for gift trays a week b4 Christmas. I don't know what I'm going to do next, the kids have been asking for pretzels so I guess I'll think about that.

[Sami]

I made Russian black bread and Herb bread last week when I had guests. The black bread didn't rise very high, probably because it uses rye and whole wheat flour. Everyone loved the taste however.

The herb parmesan bread was good and tangy but doesn't go well with peanut butter.


Both recipes are from my DAK book but I did them in the KA.

Sami

[jtoepfert100]

One of my goals this year to to keep working on my bread making skills. I have a food processor now which I'm hoping will make things easier. Two questions:

1. To convert any bread recipe to a food processor, is it as simple as pulsing the dry and then slowly adding the liquid ingredients through the shoot or does it depend on each recipe?

2. I'm looking for a fairly basic rye and/or pupernickle bread recipe - does anyone have a tried and true? I'm thinking of making the one in the KA Baker's Companion - has anyone made that one? It calls for mixing all the ingredients and letting them rest for 20 minutes or so. To knead in the food processor, would I then just dump the dough mixture in and let 'er go?

[mundy]

The method you described for changing a regular bread recipe to the processor is right. I usually "proof" the yeast in a quarter cup of warm water and then add that right after pulsing the dry ingredients. Then add the other liquids cold as the rapid mixing produces heat within the dough anyway... you want to process long enough to develop the gluten without getting the dough too warm.

[Natasha]

During the holidays, I got back into bread baking after a little while away from it. As soon as I started making the first loaf last week, I remembered how much I enjoyed the process. I've made challah and two batches of honey whole wheat bread during the holidays - two tried 'n' true favourites from Williams-Sonoma's Essentials of Baking. Now that I'm back in the breadmaking swing of things, maybe I'll try a new recipe next time :)

Natasha

[dorothyntototoo]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c123/dorothyntototoo/ciabatta12-05_1_1.jpg
Joe, your bread is beautiful. Sorry that your house was so "cool" - I noticed that the temp. there is 72! It's a damp 41 here. :( I made ciabatta over the holidays & it looked like it came from a bakery. That's a big deal coming from the "yeast killer". Here's the recipe I used. Note that you have to start the day before.

Ciabatta – very tender bread, shaped like "slipper" (oval), though not as small as Cinderella's

INGREDIENTS:
1/8 teaspoon active dry yeast
2 tablespoons warm water (110 degrees F)
1/3 cup warm water
1 cup bread flour

1/2 teaspoon active dry yeast
2 tablespoons warm milk (110 degrees)
2/3 cup warm water
1 tablespoon olive oil
2 cups bread flour
1 1/2 teaspoons salt

DIRECTIONS:

1. To Make Sponge: In a small bowl stir together 1/8 teaspoon of the yeast and the warm water and let stand 5 minutes, or until creamy. In a bowl (2 c. pyrex meas. cup) stir together yeast mixture, 1/3 cup of the water, and 1 cup of the bread flour. Stir 4 minutes, then cover bowl with plastic wrap. Let sponge stand at cool room temperature for at least 12 hours and up to 1 day.

2. To Make Bread: In a small bowl stir together yeast and milk and let stand 5 minutes, or until creamy. In bowl of a standing electric mixer fitted with dough hook blend together milk mixture, sponge, water, oil, and flour at low speed until flour is just moistened; add salt and mix until smooth and elastic, about 8 minutes. Scrape dough into an oiled bowl and cover with plastic wrap.

3. Let dough rise at room temperature until doubled in bulk, about 1 1/2 hours. (Dough will be sticky and full of air bubbles.) Turn dough out onto a well-floured work surface and cut in half. Transfer each half to a parchment sheet and form into an irregular oval about 9 inches long. Dimple loaves with floured fingers and dust tops with flour. Cover loaves with a dampened kitchen towel. Let loaves rise at room temperature until almost doubled in bulk, 1 1/2 to 2 hours.

4. At least 45 minutes before baking ciabatta, put a baking stone on oven rack in lowest position in oven and preheat oven to 425 F.

5. Transfer 1 loaf on its parchment to a rimless baking sheet with a long side of loaf parallel to far edge of baking sheet. Line up far edge of baking sheet with far edge of stone or tiles, and tilt baking sheet to slide loaf with parchment onto back half of stone or tiles. Transfer remaining loaf to front half of stone in a similar manner. Bake ciabatta loaves 20 minutes, or until pale golden. Cool loaves on a wire rack.

My Notes: Made in bread machine on DOUGH setting (step 2) – liquids, salt & sponge, then flour and yeast. When rising, be sure to have plenty of flour on loaves & towels damp or they’ll stick. Put loaves in oven (turn on then off) for final rise out of drafts. Baked one loaf in clay deep dish baker, other on baking stone.

[brownie12]

Dorothy, that ciabatta bread looks wonderful! I'll be making that later this week.

does anyone have a T&T white wheat bread recipe? One you could slice and use for sandwiches. I have a bag of the KA white wheat flour and would like to find a basic recipe that the kids would eat. Thanks!

[Mary Ann]

Here's one, Brownie12. I've made 2 loaves of this in the past 2 days, and there are only 2 of us :eek: I made the dough in the bread machine, using regular yeast, then did a second rise in the bread pan, before baking in the oven. After making this, I have stopped looking for another wheat bread recipe.

* Exported from MasterCook *

Honey Wheat Bread

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Yeast

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 package Fleischmann's® Rapid Rise Yeast
3/4 cup milk
3/4 cup water
2 tablespoons honey
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 cups whole wheat flour
Cooking spray

In large bowl, combine 1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour, salt and undissolved yeast. Heat milk, water, honey and oil until hot to touch, 125º to 130ºF. Gradually add to dry ingredients; beat 2 minutes at medium speed of electric mixer, scraping bowl occasionally. Add 1/2 cup all- purpose flour; beat at high speed 2 minutes, scraping bowl occasionally. With spoon, stir in whole wheat flour and enough additional all-purpose flour to make stiff dough.

Knead on lightly floured surface until smooth and elastic, about 6 to 8 minutes. Place in bowl, coated with cooking spray, turning to grease top. Cover; let rest 10 minutes.

Roll dough to 12- × 8-inch rectangle; roll up from short end to make loaf. Pinch seam and ends to seal. Place, seam side down, in greased 9- × 5- × 3-inch loaf pan. Cover; let rise in warm, draft-free place until doubled in size, about 30 minutes.

Bake at 375ºF for 35 minutes or until done. Remove from pans; cool on wire rack.

Source:
"Fleischmann's Yeast"
S(Internet address):
"http://www.breadworld.com/index.html"
Yield:
"1 loaf"
T(Baking Time):
"0:35"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 195 Calories; 3g Fat (15.4% calories from fat); 6g Protein; 36g Carbohydrate; 3g Dietary Fiber; 2mg Cholesterol; 187mg Sodium. Exchanges: 2 Grain(Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Non-Fat Milk; 1/2 Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates.

[Lrimerman]

Oh, I want to make more bread this year too. I made Moomie's Buns Sunday (for hamburgers, but then in-laws came over so we ordered out, we had the hamburgers last night. These buns are so good, although DH says they rise so high that it is hard to get your mouth around them, wonder how to fix that?)

We also did our standard 50/50 whole wheat sandwich bread in the bread machine, DD took a sandwich to school and we had french toast for breakfast with it.

I bought myself a new cookbook for Hannukah (and was very good about putting it away and opening it on Hannukah) called A Blessing of Bread by Maggie Glezer. So far I love reading this book and have learned a lot just in the intro pages. I have her sourdough starter going on my counter, but it won't be ready for baking with for 2 weeks. I plan on trying a bread from her book tomorrow. The book is all kinds of Jewish Breads from all over the world. I want her other book now, I love her writing, the instructions are so clear and complete!!!

Lisa

[veschke]

Yesterday I made King Arthur Flour's 100% Whole Wheat bread. My apartment was freezing and it took forever to rise, so I got a bit impatient with the second one, but it still turned out nice. I used molasses, and the bread is very dark, but tastes great with peanut butter!

[2HUNGRY!]

Beth, could I talk you into posting the Italian Batter bread? Sounds really interesting.

[Beth]

I'm not going to type all the commentary and variations on prep styles -- he discourages hand and FP prep, so I'm not including them. I'm also going to abbreviate, but anyone who has made bread should be able to follow through.

Italian Batter Bread/ Bernard Clayton
1 large peasant loaf

1 3/4 cups hot water (120-130 degrees)
4 1/2 cups bread flour, approx (I used about 4 c fluffed flour)
2 packages dry yeast (2 scant T)
1 tsp salt

14" pizza pan with lip (10x15" baking sheet with edge for convection), greased and spinkled liberally with cornmeal

Start with flat beater of mixer and change to dough hook when the dough gets heavier.

Pour hot water and 2 cups flour into mixer and start micxer on low. With mixer running, add the yeast and salt. Beat at medium speed for 3 minutes. Measure in additional flour 1/4 cup at a time until the batter is thick and heavy (He refers to it as a soft and wet dough too sticky to knead by hand, but you will see it need to be able to hold some shape.).

A spoonful of dough lifted from the bowl should be elastic and stretchy. When too thick, change to dough hook.

Beat at high speed for 25 minutes (with the Pro 600 and using only speed 2 for kneading, I have taken this to about 45 minutes. That's a long time to have the loud machine running, but I may take it further. The catch is that the yeast is developing as you continue, so it rises very quickly in the first rise -- I wasn't ready to bake, so I punched it down with floury hands and let it go again).

If the dough climbs up the hook or the mixer too hot, let the dough rest up to 15 minutes, then continue.

Scrape down the sides of the bowl and cover tightly. Let dough rise until triple in volume -- 2 to 3 hours with standard yeast, about half that time with fast-acting yeast.

Uncover the bowl, but do not punch down or stir the dough. Gently scrape the dough from the sides of the bowl and pour or roll in onto the prepared pan. With liberal sprinkles of flour, tuck the dough edges under to shape a rounded loaf about 12" in diameter.

Sprinkle the dough with flour and cover with flour-dusted cloth. Let rise until doubled and very puffy, about 1 hour. Preheat oven to 400 after 30-40 min of second rise (35 for convection oven)

bake on center shelf of hot oven until golden brown and crusty. Turn the loaf over to make certain the bottom is browed and sounds hollow when tapped. Cool on metal rack. Serve by tearing into chunks or slicing.

This is a crusty loaf with a coarse, open texture that goes well with soups, pasta or stews. It is best eaten the day it is made.

[tea4one]

Beth, did the Bernard Clayton recipe come from his New complete book of breads or another one?

[Beth]

Beth, did the Bernard Clayton recipe come from his New complete book of breads or another one?

Yes, but not the last one. My copy the "New Complete Book of Breads, Revised and Expanded" apparently printed 1987. It's on p 264 in that one. I don't know if it's in the knewer one -- one of my goals is to check out the newer one from the library again and see if anything has changed on this recipe.

[tea4one]

The newer one? I thought that was the newer one, that's why I bought it. I will have to try and find the time this weekend to try this recipe. I'm glad you posted the recipe as I can't find my copy of the book, I just had it out the other week too. I wonder how well it would do in the bread machine on the dough setting, you did only use 4 cups so I don't see why I couldn't try.
I know it wasn't written for the FP or hand prep, but why not the bread machine prep! If I do try it I will let you know how it went.

[Beth]

I don't think you will get the result from a bread machine -- it requires a LOT more kneading than a standard bread dough (KA says a few minutes for most,and you see I'm up to 45). I think you'd have to run it a number of times. It really requires that to develop the gluten. Also, remember this is a wet dough -- not sure how your machine would work with that. He doesn't give instructions for hand mixing, but says you can if that's all you have. Keep in mind you are trying to match 25 minutes of beating at high speed as the gluten develops and becomes more elastic -- i.e., resists your effort more.

Clayton did an update of his book in the last couple of years -- don't remember when exactly, but the '87 has been with me a long time and I didn't see a reason to buy the other one when I checked it out of the library before.

[yomomma]

beth, I made your Christmas Stollen yesterday. My family loves it! DH couldn't wait to take it to work this a.m. for coworkers to try. I wasn't planning to make it, but the grocery store had all their candied fruits on clearance for .59 so I gave it a go. I had planned to make it b4 christmas but it got scratched off the list when the baking load exceeded my limits.

[2HUNGRY!]

Beth, thanks so much! I'm moving next week and I'm going to try this as soon as I get the KA unpacked. Sounds perfect for distracting me from unpacking!

[Leisa M]

During the holidays, I got back into bread baking after a little while away from it. As soon as I started making the first loaf last week, I remembered how much I enjoyed the process. I've made challah and two batches of honey whole wheat bread during the holidays - two tried 'n' true favourites from Williams-Sonoma's Essentials of Baking. Now that I'm back in the breadmaking swing of things, maybe I'll try a new recipe next time :)

Natasha

Do you have a tried and true whole wheat loaf that will RISE? When I make a whole wheat loaf, I can't seem to get it to rise properly :confused: .

[dgeevanson]

Do you have a tried and true whole wheat loaf that will RISE? When I make a whole wheat loaf, I can't seem to get it to rise properly :confused: .


Have you tried SAF yeast? I took a whole wheat baking class and they sold us on the importance of using only SAF yeast for whole wheat breads. It works for me - even when I do 100% whole wheat bread. Darla

[Beth]

Beth, thanks so much! I'm moving next week and I'm going to try this as soon as I get the KA unpacked. Sounds perfect for distracting me from unpacking!

I like the way you think. Besides, what else can make a new place seem like home better than the smells of hot bread and warm cookies? :)

Good luck with your move.

[Beth]

beth, I made your Christmas Stollen yesterday. My family loves it! DH couldn't wait to take it to work this a.m. for coworkers to try. I wasn't planning to make it, but the grocery store had all their candied fruits on clearance for .59 so I gave it a go. I had planned to make it b4 christmas but it got scratched off the list when the baking load exceeded my limits.

Glad you liked it! I didn't get mine made until the 27th or 28th. I also picked up some fruit on sale and may make a second batch. The fruit keeps if you find more and don't make it for a while. I added dried cranberries to the fruit mix and soaked in the water and brandy for about a day and a half -- or was it 2 1/2 days? Wasn't intentional -- I just didn't get to making the dough when I thought I would. At any rate, it smelled divined while soaking and the stollen was wonderful. I made 4 smaller ones, and they were full sized in my book.

[jtoepfert100]

2. I'm looking for a fairly basic rye and/or pupernickle bread recipe - does anyone have a tried and true? I'm thinking of making the one in the KA Baker's Companion - has anyone made that one? It calls for mixing all the ingredients and letting them rest for 20 minutes or so. To knead in the food processor, would I then just dump the dough mixture in and let 'er go?

For anyone that has the KA book, do you think I could make their Pumpernickle Bread recipe in the food processor. I don't have the book here or I would type it in but has anyone else made it?

[tea4one]

Ok. No Bread Machine then. I just figured I could do a wet dough as mine can do quick breads too. At least I think it can, it has been so long since I have looked at the owner's manual. I have cookbooks that I use for bread recipes for it and don't really refer to the owner's manual when using it.

[Beth]

Generally you only stir a quick bread enough to just moisten all the combined dry ingredients. Like muffins, you don't want to stir too much or beat the batter because it will make the finished product tough. Just the opposite of want you want for that batter bread.

[tea4one]

Ok. I will have to look for my owners manual and see what it says and drag out the stand mixer and possibly do this this weekend. I hate moving that heavy thing around but have no other choice.

[marshcl]

Have you tried SAF yeast? I took a whole wheat baking class and they sold us on the importance of using only SAF yeast for whole wheat breads. It works for me - even when I do 100% whole wheat bread. Darla

This is GREAT to know. I normally do half and half white / wheat because of the rising issue... I think I'll venture back and try some 100% whole wheat recipes now.

:D

[veschke]

What is SAF yeast?

[HealthyinMN]

What is SAF yeast?

It is a brand of good quality yeast. It is the only kind I buy now...

http://www.safyeast.com/home.html

[AzAnne]

? for HealthyinMN..
Have you had any luck with sourdough? I had tried twice and have not been able to acheive the "tang".

Secrets, Tips, Suggestions?

[Beth]

What kind of sourdough starter are you using?

[AzAnne]

What kind of sourdough starter are you using?

The first one was from KingArthur (pretty sure), 2nd one purchased from Whole Foods. I think the brand was GoldMine? It was advertises as "real" SF sourdough. I know I won't be able to reproduce the SF sourdough taste, but something close, i was hoping.

Any recommendations?

[Beth]

I started my own while living in the San Francisco area over 14 years ago. I haven't used a purchased one, but I have found that you don't get a lot of flavor from the first use. The flavor develops, sour and otherwise, over time. If you want more sour, feed and let some of it it keep growing. KA or Sur la Table also sell a sourdough flavor enhancer that you could try. Or you can find someone with an established starter to share some with you. If you can't find anyone locally, let me know. I sometimes wind up with some extra that I can dry and mail.

[ttubbs]

The First Loaf

I couldn’t wait any longer, so attempted “The First Loaf” from Clayton’s book last night. (I didn’t have the potato flakes called for in the King Arthur White Bread 101.) It looks, smells, and tastes like bread, but I am still thinking it is not yet really what it is suppose to be. I’ll try to describe what I think are problems, and wait with much hope that you guys can enlighten me.


First, I pretty much followed the recipe as written, with the exception of subbing butter for shortening and I used rapid rise yeast. I did everything by hand. (This was for 2 reasons, - I wanted to use my new crock mixing bowls - It is one step closer to how grandma did it. She just dumped it all on the counter, made a well in the mound of flour and mixed it all with one hand. When I can do that, I might feel more like I’ve arrived.) It says to mix 2 cups of flour with the rest of the dry ingredients then add the liquid and mix all that. I did this, following the instructions on the yeast packet to mix that with the dry stuff also, and add 120º-130º water. Mine was about 125º. I mixed this all together until it was smooth and well combined. I then added the butter and mixed that well too. It says to add another cup of flour (3 total at this point) and mix for 100 string strokes. I did that while my girls counted to 100 for me. I think I probably got in more than 100 strokes during their counting, but I’m guessing that shouldn’t be a problem. Anyway, that seemed to be pretty smooth too. You then add flour ¼ cup at a time until it is a “shaggy mass”. I never got anything I would call a shaggy mass, so not sure what that looks like. After about 4 ¾ cups total though, I could hardly mix with the wooden spoon anymore, so dumped it out on the counter and started the kneading process, lightly sprinkling flour until it was just a little tacky.

I kneaded for the full 10 minutes as directed. The books says something like if done right I should be able to stretch the dough really thin. I took this to mean something like the window pane test in pizza dough. Well, I could not do this. If I tried to stretch it, it just broke into two pieces, sort of jagged at the break. The dough wasn’t a cannonball I don’t think. The surfaced seemed smooth, and I thought it seemed soft enough. You could roll it on the counter top and get a nice smooth ball anyway. However, when pulled it didn’t stretch very much before breaking. I would say this was very similar to rolling play dough into a ball and trying to stretch that. You end up with two semi-circles with smooth domes and a jagged torn base. This problem is not described in the troubleshooting section, so I just decided to go ahead with it. You know how you make rolls, and tuck the dough under to pull the top surface tight. If I did that, the surface wouldn’t break, but was lumpy. Not bad, it looked like maybe I’d stretched out and filled a balloon with couscous. Something like that. (When I make pizza dough, I do not get this inner lumpy, bumpy texture going on, but I also use my mixer.) The book also said to wham it down on the counter occasionally, but I got so focused on the push, turn, fold that I only did this once and promptly forgot all about it.

I did the oven on warm for 1 minute, and let it rise for 45 minutes in there. After the rise, I could then stretch it better, and get it fairly thin before it broke. It wasn’t a smooth stretch like bubble gum or a balloon would be. It looked more like there were thin layers of dough, and the surface layers would break as you stretched it. This isn’t a very good description, but all I can think to compare it too is a runner in panty hose. As you stretched it, you’d get runners in the surface layer, but the inner layers would continue to stretch out until fairly thin.

So, I punched it down, divided it in half, forgot to give it a 3 min rest, and just shaped it into loaves right away. I let these rice in the oven as before, for about 30 minutes, then took them out and preheated for 20 as directed. I don’t have the 8 x 4 pans called for, so used 9 ¼ x 5 I think, heavy Wilton pans. I preheated a sheet in there also, and added a ½ cup crushed ice a couple minutes before I put in the bread. I baked at 400 for 10 then lowered to 350 for 25 more as directed.

The finished product is edible, and really is not bad. It is loaf shaped, smells good, and tastes good. The dough did crack a little along the line where the dough touches the pan and the dome/crown starts. The inside has an even color and texture throughout. If there was a scale from say light Wonder bread on one end to a density of pound cake on the other, I would say this would be pretty close to center but leans toward the pound cake end. Maybe this is how it is suppose to be, I don’t know. While it looks and smells like grandma’s bread, I would say her bread would have been close to center too, but leaned more toward the Wonder bread side.

So, do you see where I may have messed up, or does that sound close enough to count as success? I’m thinking maybe the crack along the edge of the crown may be a clue as to why it is denser than I was anticipating. The crust maybe set to fast, so the dough couldn’t rice anymore. Although, there are no tunnels in it.

Excuse my lake of baking vocabulary and long winded write-up. If you’ve taken the time to read this far, thanks! And please don’t hesitate to provide your constructive criticism. 

[Beth]

I'd call that a very successful first loaf and pat yourself on the back.

Don't get hung up on the windowpane test. I don't think that gets translated to where an average bread dough would make a windowpane and people get all frustrated. I only have one bread dough that I think would make a true windowpane -- Crocodile bread from The Italian Baker. The "crumb" is almost semi-tranparent when you bake it after the gluten has been pushed to the max. It is salty, chewey, glutenous and not really my favorite loaf. But I digress.

You mentioned play dough. Think Silly Putty -- how it is stretchy. When you are pushing and folding (the whams may be fun sometimes, kids love it, but they aren't essential) you want the dough to start acting like silly putty or a soft blob of rubbery something -- you want it to push back. If you pushed play dough, it would hold the pushed shape and just sit there. Not good for bread dough. If you push on silly putty or something rubbery, it will tend to go back to the shape it was -- holding only part of the shape of the push. When that resistance has a nice elasticity to it, the dough is generally ready.

A finished bread that is on the heavier side can result from --

too much flour -- you generally want the dough to be almost tacky; soft and a little damp, but not wet and sticky. Too much flour makes the loaf heavy and can be dry

too little kneading -- you knead to develop the stretchy gluten. Think of the rising as a Thanksgiving feast for the yeast. If you don't give them elastic in their pants, they won't be able to fill up and hold the puffy shape. ;)

short rise -- times for rising are a guide, but you have to learn to seen the "doubled", "tripled", "1/2 to 1 inch over the rim", "light and puffy" or whatever guides for how much the dough has to rise. It will be longer in a cool kitchen than a warm one, but many folks like the flavor of a slow rise.

Be careful with heating an oven and putting dough in to rise. Yeast starts to die over 110 degrees -- that's why the fast rise yeast gets added to the mixed dry ingredients to protect it before you add hot water). I never turn on the oven before baking time. If I need to let dough rise, I will put it in the oven (not too close to the bulb) and crack the door so the light bulb comes on and the cracked door helps prevent heat buildup in the oven. Some folks use a bowl of warm water on the bottom rack as a way to give some warmth -- and that will help ensure your dough doesn't dry out (so will plastic wrap).

Cracks on the top of the loaf will happen as the dough expands. You can make the loaf more decorative by slitting the top in diagonal lines or other patterns to give the dough designated release points. Some doughs will need that more than others, and typically larger loaves with smoother surfaces.

BTW, milk and potato tend to make softer doughs. Try the KA 101 -- if you get a heavier loaf with that, we need to keep talking, but I think you will find that well to the softer side of center.

Let us know how the next one turns out.

[ttubbs]

I used play dough as an example of how when I pulled on it, it tore apart instead of stretched. When kneading, it did try to come back to the original shape more like the silly putty. My dough was slightly tacky I think. I read somewhere that you can give it a slap and hold your hand on there for a 10 count. I did that, and while a little on the tacky side, there was no dough residue on my hand when I lifted it off. I’ll try the KA next.

Thanks for the info too.

[HealthyinMN]

I'd call that a very successful first loaf and pat yourself on the back.
Be careful with heating an oven and putting dough in to rise. Yeast starts to die over 110 degrees -- that's why the fast rise yeast gets added to the mixed dry ingredients to protect it before you add hot water). I never turn on the oven before baking time. If I need to let dough rise, I will put it in the oven (not too close to the bulb) and crack the door so the light bulb comes on and the cracked door helps prevent heat buildup in the oven. Some folks use a bowl of warm water on the bottom rack as a way to give some warmth -- and that will help ensure your dough doesn't dry out (so will plastic wrap).


I agree! Congrats!

During the winter season, our kitchen stays pretty chilly (well, chilly for Phoenix ;) ) so I end up using a couple methods. I tried turning the oven on warm once for a minute and then turned it off. I used a thermometer to see how warm it was and it was already over 100. I usually do as Beth and turn just the light bulb on in the oven. I can usually get a consistant 83-85 degrees that way.

If I can't do that and don't have the two hours it can sometimes take to rise in a cold kitchen, I wrap a heating pad set on low with a towel and then set the covered bowl of dough on top of that.

In the BBA, Reinhart recommends that you don't use ice cubes as they first turn to water rather than instant steam and bring the temperature down too much.

[Lrimerman]

Inspired by this thread, I made the Marbled Rye bread from "A Bread Baker's Apprentice". I used the bread flour from our local mill (which is labeled unbleached and is 14% protein, but when I called the mill, she said they only sift it once, so it is probably as close to "Clear" flour as I can get.). I also used Buckwheat honey instead of Molasses because the only molasses I had was Blackstrap and it is STRONG. I also used cocoa instead of carmel color.

Turned out beautiful and taste good. It is a bit dense, but I think rye bread usually is. It rose nicely and faster than I expected too. DH loved it (I really made it for him), the kids liked it too, they thought the swirl was cool. They couldn't even wait until it was cool. Since they were trying to pick at one loaf, I ended up cutting them each a piece while it was still pretty warm.

I can't wait to try some other new recipes.

Lisa

[heavy hedonist]

During the holidays, I got back into bread baking after a little while away from it. As soon as I started making the first loaf last week, I remembered how much I enjoyed the process. I've made challah and two batches of honey whole wheat bread during the holidays - two tried 'n' true favourites from Williams-Sonoma's Essentials of Baking. Now that I'm back in the breadmaking swing of things, maybe I'll try a new recipe next time :)

Natasha Natasha, I have that book too-- I lovelovelove the Ciabatta, especially the onion variation. I've also tried the baguettes (good, but not worth three risings, I thought), the pain au levain (a Pain indeed-- it used almost an entire bag of flour, took a week, and gave me a one loaf that never rose properly-- I did keep the starter for a good two months before it went bad, and it added quite a wonderful flavor to my loaves during that time.) I'm so glad to know the breads you mentioned are your T&T's. Thanks! --mari

[Leisa M]

This is GREAT to know. I normally do half and half white / wheat because of the rising issue... I think I'll venture back and try some 100% whole wheat recipes now.

:D

I will have to try some whole wheat bread, and make sure I get SAF yeast. I have used Fleishmans in the past (or Red Star)

[ttubbs]

I agree! Congrats!

During the winter season, our kitchen stays pretty chilly (well, chilly for Phoenix ;) ) so I end up using a couple methods. I tried turning the oven on warm once for a minute and then turned it off. I used a thermometer to see how warm it was and it was already over 100. I usually do as Beth and turn just the light bulb on in the oven. I can usually get a consistant 83-85 degrees that way.

If I can't do that and don't have the two hours it can sometimes take to rise in a cold kitchen, I wrap a heating pad set on low with a towel and then set the covered bowl of dough on top of that.

In the BBA, Reinhart recommends that you don't use ice cubes as they first turn to water rather than instant steam and bring the temperature down too much.

Thanks for the info. I thought the oven seemed too hot, but went ahead anyway. I'll try just the light next time. My house stays at 70 during these winter months, so I think I should need to do something.

Wife was asleep last night, and I dared not wake her to see where she hides the camera, but I got some pictures tonight. If they help with assessing, especially if any of you think it looks too dense for this particular recipe, I'd like to know.

Loaf
http://us.a1.yahoofs.com/users/41a8bc3dz2c5ae543/848c/__sr_/9db9re2.jpg?phIgxvDB4l736mew

Texture/Detail http://us.a1.yahoofs.com/users/41a8bc3dz2c5ae543/848c/__sr_/bcc5re2.jpg?phIgxvDBLyMZGYO4

[HealthyinMN]

Loaf
http://us.a1.yahoofs.com/users/41a8bc3dz2c5ae543/848c/__sr_/9db9re2.jpg?phIgxvDB4l736mew

Texture/Detail http://us.a1.yahoofs.com/users/41a8bc3dz2c5ae543/848c/__sr_/bcc5re2.jpg?phIgxvDBLyMZGYO4

Pictures won't load, the links don't seem right... sorry!

[marshcl]

i need to venture into the world of sourdough starters again.

i recall my mother telling me that it's good to make a couple of batches of sourdough pancakes with the 'young' starter as they work out really well and you then prep the starter for the more serious responsibility of taking on bread.

however, my bread making has slowed down considerably this winter because the thermostat is set to a toasty 62 because of the lovely gas bills we've been seeing. i'm also going to try some of those oven tricks and see if i can't pull off 'room temperature' or at least something vaguely close.

[Beth]

When you get back to sourdough -- I give advise similar to your mom's. I suggest pancakes, waffles and recipes that use added yeast for a few uses to get it stronger before relying on the started for all your rise.

[ttubbs]

Pictures won't load, the links don't seem right... sorry!

Hmm... They worked when I added them. I just won't worry with it I guess. I'm gonna have to figure out how to get enough deatil into a 150 x 150 and just attach something one of these days I guess.

Thanks for trying anyways though.

[ttubbs]

How do you attach images like dorothyntototoo's did on the first page of this thread?


The only thing I've gotten to work is the 150 x 150 attachment. Way too small though.

[HealthyinMN]

How do you attach images like dorothyntototoo's did on the first page of this thread?


The only thing I've gotten to work is the 150 x 150 attachment. Way too small though.

If you trying to attach pictures via the "manage attachment" button that is probably the issue. To add a picture, click on the http://community.cookinglight.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif image on the bar that lets you change the font to bold/italic/underline. Then put in the web address where it is stored online (it has to be uploaded to the web somewhere, not just on your PCs harddrive)

[dorothyntototoo]

How do you attach images like dorothyntototoo's did on the first page of this thread?


The only thing I've gotten to work is the 150 x 150 attachment. Way too small though.

Foodfly sent me these instructions & my niece walked me through it. I thought the picture was too big, but Cate thought it looked good.
*********************************
Found this looking through Other Stuff, Xmas Picture thread. Haven't tried it myself yet.

I think the first post was Cangross's:

For people asking how to post photos -
Upload your photo to a site like imagestation or shutterfly. Then right-click on the photo, and choose "copy shortcut".
Reply to the thread on the BB, and then click on the icon that's yellow and gray and has a little mountain scene. A box will pop up, and you paste the link to the photo in the box. Then it should insert the link to the image in the post.
Hope that helps!

__________________

Don't remember who posted the second:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintersummer

I've searched and can't find answer. How do I post photo? Sorry for the ignorance on this. (I've attempted cut and paste, I can get photo cut, but when I come back to this window, the paste option is always gone...you know, greyed out and not an option). thanks.


Wintersummer,

www.photobucket.com

I use photobucket.com which has worked out very well. It's free and simple to learn. It's made me a picture-posting-maniac!
Believe me, if I can learn how to post an image, anyone can! Can't wait to see your pictures!

[NewMrsG]

We made a new recipe last night that DH and I both LOVE - it's a KA recipe, very easy to make. Made the dough in the bread machine and baked in the oven. Great sandwich bread and made great toast for breakfast this morning:



* Exported from MasterCook *

Harvest Wheat Bread

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : bread - savory

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1/4 cup cracked wheat
1 1/4 cups boiling water
1/4 cup olive oil
3 tablespoons sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
2 cups Bread Flour
1 cup Whole Wheat Flour
1 tablespoon vital wheat gluten (optional)
1/4 cup sunflower seeds
2 teaspoon active dry yeast

Combine cracked wheat and boiling water in bread machine, let soften 30 mins.

Add remaining ingredients, run on dough cycle.

Place in sprayed 8" loaf pan. Let rise, covered, about 1 hour, or until crowned about 1" over rim of the pan. Bake at 350° for 35-45 mins, or until center registers 190°. Remove from pan, let cool on a wire rack.

Source:
"King Arthur"
Yield:
"1 loaf"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 2247 Calories; 79g Fat (31.1% calories from fat); 61g Protein; 333g Carbohydrate; 22g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 3223mg Sodium. Exchanges: 20 Grain(Starch); 1 1/2 Lean Meat; 14 1/2 Fat; 2 1/2 Other Carbohydrates.


Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

[ttubbs]

OK, I'll try using photo bucket. That's basically the same thing I tired using yahoo, but yahoo seems to time out the links or something. Here goes...


"The First Loaf Detail"
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ttubbs/food/DSC00186.jpg


Sweet! How's that look to you guys, too dense, yes?

[ttubbs]

I just pulled KA's "White Bread 101" from the oven. This time the dough was much smoother while mixing. Not sure what the difference was in my technique. The recipes are different in this one uses all purpose flour. Anyway, it was much smoother working. I also just turned the light on in the oven, and the yeast was working good today. In fact, I think I let it get away from me, and it rose too much, especially when it hit the oven. I probably should have reshaped and let it rise again. What do you think? The pictures shows both loaves side by side, the bigger one would be today's White Bread 101 obviously.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ttubbs/food/DSC00191.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ttubbs/food/DSC00192.jpg

[cab321]

I made the Soft Oatmeal Sandwich Bread from Country Baking by Ken Haedrich that was posted by Gardenmom in November (http://community.cookinglight.com/showthread.php?t=81873&highlight=Soft+Oatmeal+Sandwich+Bread).

It is so delicious. I usually don't like whole wheat or grain breads as much as plain old white, but this one is so flavorful. I used 1/2 of the dough for a batch of rolls and the other 1/2 for a loaf. I will definately use this recipe again.

[Beth]

I just pulled KA's "White Bread 101" from the oven.... I think I let it get away from me, and it rose too much, especially when it hit the oven. I probably should have reshaped and let it rise again. What do you think? The pictures shows both loaves side by side, the bigger one would be today's White Bread 101 obviously.

Seeing the two side by side is pretty dramatic. I'm not sure that you should have punched down and reshaped the 101 loaf if it rose a bit further in the oven. You could have put it in the oven a little sooner, but it didn't deflate on you. You cuold have some big pockets inside that crust, but that's okay. Just remember where this loaf was before you put it in the oven for future reference and you can work back form there slightly.

It was hard to tell much about the first loaf by itself. It does look like it either wasn't kneaded enough to develop the gluten structure, didn't rise long enough and/or it got too warm. Compare the flavor of the two loaves and see which one you like best. If you like both -- try the first loaf again. The experts often suggest perfecting one basic loaf to get the basics down, then branch out. I would try one or both of these again, then try some others.

[ttubbs]

Seeing the two side by side is pretty dramatic. I'm not sure that you should have punched down and reshaped the 101 loaf if it rose a bit further in the oven. You could have put it in the oven a little sooner, but it didn't deflate on you. You cuold have some big pockets inside that crust, but that's okay. Just remember where this loaf was before you put it in the oven for future reference and you can work back form there slightly.

It was hard to tell much about the first loaf by itself. It does look like it either wasn't kneaded enough to develop the gluten structure, didn't rise long enough and/or it got too warm. Compare the flavor of the two loaves and see which one you like best. If you like both -- try the first loaf again. The experts often suggest perfecting one basic loaf to get the basics down, then branch out. I would try one or both of these again, then try some others.

My wife is big into scrapbooking, and got her first digital camera for Christmas. Just in time for me to start messing around with bread, and bombarding all of you with my questions. :D Pictures really are a big help with this sort of thing.

Here's the detail on the 101 loaf. It isn't too bad. I do think there is a pocket another slice or two into it, as the crust has caved there a bit. But it does not look like it is going to be all that big really. The book does say this is a fine crumbed loaf that is good toasted or for sandwiches, especially PB&J. It is so airy that I do think it would be tough to spread peanut butter on.

We actually like the taste of the First Loaf better. I like the more airy texture of this loaf better, but my wife liked the other more dense loaf. We also thought this one had an odd smell about it. I am not sure if it is the whole loaf of just the crust. I can't really put my finger on the smell either. It's not exactly a sour smell, but sort of tends that direction. We were wondering if that might have anything to do with the fact that this one had potato flakes in it. Anyway, it does look and taste like bread, but we wouldn't really say it smells like it.

I had been thinking that I should maybe make one or both of these a few times befor branching out, so I think now that you've suggested the same that's probably what I'll do.

Thanks everyone for all the pointers with bread and linking the photos and everything. It really helps a bunch.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ttubbs/food/DSC00193.jpg

[Beth]

I think that does look like it rose a little too much, but nothing radical.

The 101 rolls have been very soft -- like a tender dinner roll. I haven't noticed any odd smell. I thought they smelled great, but they are different from something like that batter bread I posted that is just water, flour, salt and yeast. The 101 has both butter and potato, but other than that, the 101 and first loaf are pretty similar.

[ttubbs]

I think that does look like it rose a little too much, but nothing radical.

The 101 rolls have been very soft -- like a tender dinner roll. I haven't noticed any odd smell. I thought they smelled great, but they are different from something like that batter bread I posted that is just water, flour, salt and yeast. The 101 has both butter and potato, but other than that, the 101 and first loaf are pretty similar.

I subbed butter in The First Loaf, and used bread instead of all-purpose flour, so mine should have been even closer I'd guess. Today the 101 smells more like bread. The odd smell seems to have gone away once it cooled down. It was only up close too, the house had a great smell of bread during the cooking and cooling stage, just up close did you get the hint of something odd. You are right, the crust is very much like a tender dinner roll. Why is that? Is that caused by the potatoes?

[Beth]

Both the milk and potato help make the bread tender and the crust softer. Potato is also supposed to help with keeping ability.

[dgeevanson]

Do you have a tried and true whole wheat loaf that will RISE? When I make a whole wheat loaf, I can't seem to get it to rise properly :confused: .


I responded to this post already to suggest SAF yeast, but especially if you are trying to make 100% whole wheat bread, adding gluten is almost as important IMHO as using the SAf yeast. I add 2-3 heaping T. to a recipe for 1-2 lb loaf of bread. Darla

[dgeevanson]

Do you have a tried and true whole wheat loaf that will RISE? When I make a whole wheat loaf, I can't seem to get it to rise properly :confused: .

I responded to your post to mention the SAF yeast, but forgot to mention that IMHO , if you are trying to bake with 100% whole wheat flour, you really need to add 2-3 T gluten to each loaf. If a recipe that you are trying doesn't call for it, subtract it from the amount of flour listed. The Saf is better at getting wheat flour to raise, and as I understand it, the gluten helps maintain the structure so you don't get a loaf that falls. This is our favorite whole wheat recipe. I use the white wheat flour for this. It has the same fiber as other whole wheat flours, but it is lighter in color and texture. This is adapted from AR. Darla
* Exported from MasterCook *

Honey of an Oatmeal Bread

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Yeast Breads

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 1/4 cups warm water
1 Tablespoon oil
1/4 cup honey
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup old fashioned oats
2 1/3 cups white whole wheat flour
1 1/2 teaspoons saf yeast
2 heaping T gluten

Put in bread machine on programmable cycle ( Preheat 26, Knead 30, Rise 1-45, Rise 2 - 35, Rise 3 59 and bake only 36 for a nice soft crust). Delicious and moist. Even day old it is wonderful.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 378 Calories; 14g Fat (30.4% calories from fat); trace Protein; 70g Carbohydrate; trace Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 2144mg Sodium. Exchanges: 2 1/2 Fat; 4 1/2 Other Carbohydrates.


Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

[ttubbs]

The First Loaf vs. White Bread 101

"The First Loaf" vs. "White Bread 101"
5-6 cups bread flour 3 cups all-purpose flour
1/3 cup potato flakes
2 cups 125º water 1 1/8 to 1 1/3 cups 125º water
3 tbsp sugar 3 tbsp sugar
2 tsp salt 1 1/4 tsp salt
1 package dry yeast 1 package dry yeast
1/4 cup powdered milk 1/4 cup powdered milk
3 tbsp butter 4 tbsp butter
The First Loaf makes 2, and White Bread 101 makes 1 loaf.

Week 2
Observation: The flour to water ratio in the recipes are about the same. 5:2 and 3 1/3:1 1/3 both work out to roughly 2.5 parts flour to 1 part water (I've counted 1/3 potato flakes as part of the flour amount here). Obviously, since White Bread 101 only makes a single loaf, it has a higher ratio of the remaining ingredients, especially the fat since it calls for more anyway.

Made WB 101 first this time. I think it turned out great. A whole lot more like Wonder bread than pound cake finally. I could still improve on the shaping a little, but this is just me being fussy and I have no doubt I can improve this over time. When I make the log, I seem to have just a bit more dough on one end, so it rises maybe ½ to 1 inch higher. Not a big deal at all. If I could consistently make bread like this, I would be happy. I plan to give TFL another try this weekend, and if I can get the same nice shaped loaves out of that recipe, I think I’ll give myself a ‘pass’ and move on to another recipe. Here’s some photos, your critique is welcome.


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ttubbs/food/DSC00205.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ttubbs/food/DSC00204.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ttubbs/food/DSC00203.jpg

[ttubbs]

I made The First Loaf again yesterday. You can't really tell a difference in looks between them and the White Bread 101 pictured above. I think I'm getting the feel for these. Thanks for all you help.

[Beth]

Sounds like you have "the feel" now -- they look good. I think you can start expanding your horizons with confidence. :)

[ttubbs]

In my quest to be a better bread baker, I’ve been reading all my books, this BB, and other misc. stuff on the web. I’ve known, and just about everything I’ve read reiterates, that weight is the preferred method of measure in the bake shop. Still, I’ve found most recipes for baking at home use volume measurements. I’m curious if any of you use weight for baking at home, and do you find any improvements by doing so?

What I’m especially curious about is why this is true. All the reading says the weight of the flour is affected by how much moisture, in the form of humidity, it has absorbed. So, say 10 ounces of flour on a dry day actually has more flour and less moisture, than 10 ounces of flour on a humid day. Yet, when using weight, one would still mix in the same amount of liquid ingredients called for in the recipe. So how does the weight preference actually help? The only explanation I can come up with that makes sense is that the amount of moisture absorbed by the flour really doesn’t have much, if any, impact on the recipe. It’s more that on a humid day, the flour weighs more, so it actually packs more in a measuring cup, and results in a whole lot more flour being added than expected. Is this an accurate, or am I missing something?

[HealthyinMN]

In my quest to be a better bread baker, I’ve been reading all my books, this BB, and other misc. stuff on the web. I’ve known, and just about everything I’ve read reiterates, that weight is the preferred method of measure in the bake shop. Still, I’ve found most recipes for baking at home use volume measurements. I’m curious if any of you use weight for baking at home, and do you find any improvements by doing so?


I do all of my baking by weight, and convert any recipes that are not listed as such. I find that I get so much more consistant results and once I have the weights, prepping goes by so much faster.

[Beth]

I think you can use either method if you are consistent in how you approach it. Either method is going to have some play, whether it be humidity, packing or fluffing, etc. I weight a lot of things, but I still use volume measurements with breads. I think with breads having a feel for the dough is more important than the exact measurements by either method. But that's what works for me. If you have a scale, try weights and see how it works for you.

[ttubbs]

I might have to add a scale to my wish list so I can play around with that too. Thanks!


I’ve tried here and there to reproduce a cinnamon roll recipe that was my Grandma’s. I think I will give those a try again for my next project. It makes a lot though, so I would like to be able to freeze some. What do I need to know about freezing bread dough? I was thinking that I’d let them rise, shape them, then freeze before letting them rise in the pan. Then when I want to bake them, I’d let them sit in the fridge overnight, and get them out in the morning to finish rising until double or whatever. Am I thinking about this correctly, or what should I do?

Also, this may be an odd question, but does anyone know if there is something I can freeze them in that is both oven and microwave friendly? I was thinking I might bring some into work so I don’t eat them all, but would like to warm them a bit in the microwave if possible.

TIA

[HealthyinMN]

What do I need to know about freezing bread dough? I was thinking that I’d let them rise, shape them, then freeze before letting them rise in the pan. Then when I want to bake them, I’d let them sit in the fridge overnight, and get them out in the morning to finish rising until double or whatever. Am I thinking about this correctly, or what should I do?

Also, this may be an odd question, but does anyone know if there is something I can freeze them in that is both oven and microwave friendly? I was thinking I might bring some into work so I don’t eat them all, but would like to warm them a bit in the microwave if possible.
TIA

For cinnamon rolls that is what I do if I use a recipe that makes a ton. Let rise once, roll out/fill/cut and then place in the pan, making sure to cover well. I would usually use some disposible foil pans, but maybe you do use a pyrex dish? You would just need to use a size that would fit in the microwave.

[brownie12]

Aren't those disposable plastic Glad pans microwave safe? I love those for taking food places, but haven't used them anywhere except the freezer and oven.

[ttubbs]

Aren't those disposable plastic Glad pans microwave safe? I love those for taking food places, but haven't used them anywhere except the freezer and oven.

I should have been more clear. I am looking for something disposable, but the pyrex is a good idea. I'll have to look for the Glad pans. Plastic that is oven safe, how cool is that?

[Kyra]

In response to ttubbs question about weight versus volume measurements:

I have a Salter electronic scale, and love it for baking. I find it's quicker and makes for easier cleanup, as well as being more precise. It makes the holiday cookie baking go MUCH faster!

For bread baking, I also use my scale, but I've developed my own method. Let's say I am making a whole-wheat bread that uses some whole wheat flour, and the rest is bread flour. I will use my scale to measure out the whole wheat flour, and use my KitchenAid stand mixer to mix that plus the salt, yeast, liquid ingredients, and so forth. When it's time to add the rest of the flour--the bread flour--I just stand there with the bag of flour and my trusty flour scoop, and add bread flour to the mixer until it looks/feels right. After two years of regular bread baking (sandwich type loaves only, mind you), I can tell when I've added enough flour. Plus, I know what size "scoop" of flour equals about a cup, so if the recipe says to add three to three and a half cups of bread flour, I do sort of eyeball it. My results have been fine this way. Plus, I figure I'm compensating for the variance in amount of flour needed due to humidity, moisture, etc. I wonder if other bakers do the same?

Not sure if that answers your question, or just makes it more complicated. My apologies if it's the latter!

Oh, and I think your bread loaves look great. Thanks for the pictures!

[ttubbs]

No, thank you!

That did not complicate things at all. I would say that if you are eyeballing up to 3 cups of flour though, that the process of weighing of the whole wheat had no bearing on the outcome. This seems to fall in line with the others comments that neither volume nor weight has a significant advantage. Still, I wonder why baking books make such a big issue of it.

I just cut into my last batch of “The First Loaf” last night. (I had to freeze them because they were starting to stack up.). Even in round 2, we prefer TFL to WB 101. The recipes are so similar; it is hard to imagine they would be noticeably different. Still, we think there is (maybe it’s in our heads).

One more question for those of you who make cinnamon rolls: Do you make a caramel sauce in the pan along with them, and if so, how? That’s part of my Grandma’s recipe, and has been harder for me to master than the bread. She would melt butter, dump that in a 9 x 13, sprinkle in some brown (and maybe white too) sugar, and then drizzle some canned milk around on that (very country style cooking). When done baking, you flip the pan over onto brown paper or aluminum foil, and let the caramel run through before lifting the pan off. Delicious! She always had a nice caramel sauce, and mine is always sort of grainy. On of my baking books suggests creaming the sugar and butter together (maybe with some milk, I’ll have to check), and then spreading that into pans. I’m thinking of going this route, seems like this might freeze better than the melted butter way, but thought I’d see what you all had to say.

Thanks again.

[ttubbs]

I tried my grandmas cinnamon rolls this weekend. I froze them as part of the experiment, and they worked out the best I’ve done till now. Still not there though. I tried the different caramel sauce where butter, brown sugar, and corn syrup are creamed together. Then water is beaten in. This was stiff, but I was able to spread the bottom of my pans OK. However, this seemed to break when thawed, and made for a slightly soggy underside to the rolls. It wasn’t grainy though, and the caramel sauce tasted great! I’m wondering if I left out the water if it would make much difference, it was only a small amount compared to the rest of the ingredients. I might try that next time. These rolls are too rich to repeat again this week, plus I’ve still got a pan in the freezer. I don’t know what I’ll try this week, maybe something whole wheat since that’s what I have the most of now.

I found and used the Glad® pans. Those are great too!

I also tried the EW whole wheat pizza dough that always comes up in the pizza threads here on the BB. It didn’t say, so I guessed and baked at 450 on parchment on the oven grates (one day I’ll get some tiles or a stone). I think maybe this crust should cook a bit longer at a lower temp or else really is made for a stone. Anyway, it was good, but did not bump out the Neo-Neapolitan for my favorite.

[hAndyman]

Here's a wonderfully-citrus-scented rich bread that's too easy to make - no kneading. Yesterday I used 2 grated clementines to replace the orange rind. Makes for delicate toast, good with a touch of butter or a spoonful of blueberry jam.

From http://www.post-gazette.com/food/20011227spain2ap2.asp

Spanish Citrus Brioche

Instead of butter, this beautiful brioche uses lightly flavored, extra virgin olive oil. The loaf is delicately perfumed with the zest of orange and lemon, and it is airy and flavorful. Use a fluted pan to give the classic brioche shape. Or bake the brioche in a loaf pan to allow you to make even slices. Stale brioche makes excellent french toast. Many recipes for brioche call for double risings of the dough and a rest overnight in the refrigerator. This version is quick and easy to put together in the food processor, but it can also be stirred together conventionally in a large bowl. It is not kneaded.

3 tablespoons warmed milk
1 1/2 teaspoons dry yeast
2 cups all-purpose flour
3 large whole eggs, at room temperature
1/4 cup sugar
Grated zest of an orange
Grated zest of a lemon
3/4 teaspoon salt
6 tablespoons lightly flavored olive oil

Spritz a 4 1/2-cup fluted brioche mold or a 9-by-5-by-3-inch loaf pan with nonstick cooking spray. Heat the milk but allow it to become only warm, not hot.
Sprinkle the yeast over the bottom of a food processor and add the warm milk along with a small pinch of sugar, 1/3 cup flour and 1 egg. Pulse 8 to 10 times until you have a starter and the mixture is creamy.
Put the remaining flour on top of this starter but do not mix it in. Cover the bowl with the top of the food processor. Allow the mixture to stand until you can see that the starter has begun to foam and that the yeast is activated. Depending on the conditions in your kitchen, it can take from 15 minutes to an hour.
Add the other 2 eggs, sugar, salt and orange and lemon zests to the work bowl. Turn the machine on for 10-15 seconds, until the dough has come together to form a ball. Leave the machine on and pour the olive oil in a fine stream through the feed tube. The stream should be fine enough so that the ball holds its shape. The movement of the ball of dough around the edge of the bowl will work the oil into the dough.
If you are mixing by hand, work the oil into the dough a few tablespoons at a time, mixing with a wooden spoon until the oil is incorporated. The dough is fairly forgiving. In any case, the dough will be wet and creamy.
Spoon and scrape the dough into the brioche mold or bread pan. Although a "top knot" is traditional on individual brioches, it gets in the way of slicing on a larger loaf such as this one. I prefer to leave it off.
Allow the dough to rise to the top of the pan. Depending on the temperature of the kitchen, this can take from 1 to 2 hours. The dough will be very light and will have risen to about three times its original volume.
Bake the brioche in a preheated 375-degree oven for 30 minutes until it is golden brown and, when the bottom of the pan is thumped, it produces a hollow sound. Remove the loaf from the oven. Allow it to rest for 5 minutes, then turn it out of the pan and cool on a rack. Serve plain or toasted with jam or a fruit compote. A glass of dessert wine would be wonderful. Makes 1 loaf.
Adapted from Paula Wolfert recipe, Thursday, December 27, 2001

[brr9270]

well I had to put this here b/c I was sooo proud. I have never made homemade bread before. I decided to try Moomie's buns for my first attempt. Well I can't imagine anything could be any better! I used 1/2 whole wheat flour, and they were yummy and beautiful! I think I must be the last person left that hasn't tried these, but if you have not, give them a try.

[ttubbs]

You’re not the last. I’ve not tried moomies buns either, but I’ve seen the reviews.


I tried a whole wheat recipe from King Arthur this weekend, and I think I must have really messed up. I don’t remember the name, but it is 100% whole wheat, and it promises to be a great even if you’ve had bad luck with 100% whole wheat loaves.

First, it calls for 5 tablespoons of maple syrup, molasses, or honey. I used honey, and though it was a little too sweet for sandwich bread, which is what I though it was suppose to be.

The other thing it said was to mix using the bread machine for the best rise. I used my machine, but it was way too wet, and before I could get the right consistency, the machine quit kneading. I tried to reset the machine, but no luck. I even unplugged it for 10 minutes, but when I plugged it back in, it wanted to start where it left off. Must be a temperature switch or something. Anyway, I kneaded in more ww flour by hand, until I could handle it better, but I’m thinking I must not have kneaded enough.

I ate a couple of slices, but none of the rest of the family would eat it. I threw the rest out.

[veschke]

I tried a whole wheat recipe from King Arthur this weekend, and I think I must have really messed up. I don’t remember the name, but it is 100% whole wheat, and it promises to be a great even if you’ve had bad luck with 100% whole wheat loaves.

I'm sorry you didn't have luck with this one! I made it a few weeks ago. It is pretty sweet, took *lot* of kneading and still turned out fairly dense. Sorry you had problems with your bread machine. :( I don't think it has a chance of replacing my usual sandwich loaf (I usually do a part-whole wheat one), but I'd make it again if I really wanted a change.

I haven't made Moomies buns either. :-)

[ttubbs]

I might try it again one of these days. I’d really like to find a whole wheat loaf that I really like. I was thinking if I really liked this one I might then try with white whole wheat flour to too. I think the kids would like that better. I will say that this one did not really taste like typical whole wheat. I’ll cut back on the sweetener if I make it again. Not sure if I’ll try this one again this week or look for something else yet. Well see… Anyway, even when they come out bad, I’m still learning something, so it’s all good. :)


I don’t know what’s up with my bread machine. It’s a Breadman®, so should be good enough, right? I think the whole cycle was suppose to be 1:30, with the first :30 being the mix and kneading, and the last 1:00 being the rise. Since I’m new to the bread making thing, I wasn’t sure when I should try to start adding more flour. I guess I started too late, because the first 30 minutes ran out, and it was still too wet. Neither the stop button nor unplugging it seemed to reset anything. I’ll have to get my book out and see if there is a section on that.