Living beyond your means

[BeachBum]

Watching Oprah and her "debt diet" today sparked my curiosity. Her guests had debt (not mortgage) roughly equal to their annual salary. I was totally flabbergasted.
So, do you live beyond your means?


Feel free to respond, but I made a poll just in case you wanted to be anonymous.:)

[tbb113]

I don't live beyond my means, but my ex-husband did (and I think still does). It is a large reason why he is an EX husband. When we got divorced 10 years ago, we had to file bankruptcy. I wrote off over $135,000 worth of his debt :eek:

As I tell my kids, you can't judge how we live compared to your friends. First, we only have my income (as opposed to a dual income family) and I'm debt free. If I wanted to carry credit card balances, we could have nice vacations, nicer cars, etc too

[Goin' Coastal]

I, too, watched the show and was amazed. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I had debt like that! Keeping up with the Jones' can be a rough way to go.

[aggie94]

Depends on what you're counting towards debt. If that includes school loans, then yes, we'd be among those. If you're talking just consumer debt, then my response is :eek:.

[SusanMac]

I think there are a *ton* of people out there who appear "wealthy" but really aren't at all. It's completely amazing how the credit card craze has impacted how people view spending.

I didn't see Oprah's show, but I know a few people who live that way.

[Chefzhat]

Spend less than we make.

[funnybone]

We have a mortgage and only one car loan at a time. We pay off our credit cards off at the end of the month. We have retirement funds in Canada and the US. If we want to buy something, we can as we have money in our savings account as well. We don't live beyond our means and never have and we are fortunate to do so on DH's income. When and if I go back to work, that money will be bonus for us.

I'm not an Oprah viewer, but I will have to TIVO the repeated show tonight just to see what it's about.

[Jazzmatazz49]

We live below our means because my husband and I have both had some financial hard times in our first marriages. Nothing feels as good as money in the bank, materially speaking. And we are able to help our kids if necessary (it hardly ever is) and do some special things without having to worry about it.

[Molli526]

Spend less than we make :)

We have no desire to keep up with the Joneses.

[Aubergine]

As I tell my kids, you can't judge how we live compared to your friends. First, we only have my income (as opposed to a dual income family) and I'm debt free. If I wanted to carry credit card balances, we could have nice vacations, nicer cars, etc too

this is what i also tried to instill in my kids. we talked about it: either mom takes a big job, and you guys go to 'school' from 7 a.m - 7pm, or we get along with less. they had no problem deciding.

nothing like being a single parent after a divorce to teach you alot about money management! ... my situation was different from yours (we didn't have any debt), but it taught me a lot about watching where the $$ went when the children and i lived for years on alimony/CS. since i'd already stupidly ruined my own credit rating in my early 20's, :rolleyes: i lived on a cash basis. i was fortunate in that, when it came to 'large purchases,' like an urgent VCR replacement (once); another time, a car repair; family members stepped up to the plate and paid for them; i repaid them on a monthly basis.

i have no debt and it feels very good.

[Kay Henderson]

I've always admired folks who have the resources to borrow from themselves. It can be cash or close to it or stocks. (Although I haven't done the latter, I had some relatives who did. When they needed to buy a car or whatever, they would sell shares of a particular stock. Then they would pay themselves back by buying the same number of shares. Worked for them.)

Kay

[tyroleancutie]

I haven't see Oprah this morning but I'll watch it later today. At the moment we only have one income and we really don't spent a lot of money. No Credit Cards, No Loans or Debits to pay off, thank god.

I handle all the bills and set up the month budgets in our household. If DH would do this, we would live in a cold, dark apartment but would eat at a fancy restaurant every day ;)

[jellyben]

Did you see SNL a few weeks ago with Steve Martin? They had a skit about a radical new financial plan called "Don't buy what you can't afford" And the husband and wife would say things like 'but if we really want it and we don't have the money, then can we buy it?' with these confused looks on their faces. It was very funny.

DH and I are pretty good about debt-thanks mainly to DH. He is rather thrifty and I love 'stuff' so he needs to be firm and point out the difference between 'wants' and 'needs'. DH is good about saving for retirement and kids' college and charity, but it can often be very hard to afford little extras when they come up, like extracurriculars for the kids or a new piece of furniture(DD really needs a new bed)

[sneezles]

We don't have an earned income since DH sold his business 5 years ago so it's difficult to say if we live beyond our means. We don't have credit card debt though we do have a couple of loans for land purchases we've made since moving to the country. Even when we both worked we never carried any debt other than the mortgage.

[KimE]

A lot of us seem to have had simular experiences with an EX so that has at least put us in a better position now :)
That would be me for sure, with my EX it was horrible and it still is horrible for him and his new family, the man does not know how to handle his money...to bad for them.
My DN & I on the other hand are doing great, we are more then on track with our 401's. Roth IRA's, you name it we are huge savers, but don't be confused, if we want it we get it, we just are not huge wanters.
We love to travel and eat well. WE also have 2 DD's in college :eek:

It is just so nice being able to sleep every night and answer the phone without ever having to worry about any money problems.

Kim

[mbrogier]

Even with paying off our medical debts, we still have less overall debt than what we make in a year. We don't buy "stuff" just because everyone else has it, or it would be nice to have. All extra money--even bonuses--is used to pay off debt.

When we're done, we still won't be keeping up with the joneses. Our only debt will be mortgage and car. Our only vacation has been our honeymoon--which was to Asheville, NC. Any vacations will be done with cash (or credit cards that get paid off immediately--since traveling with cash isn't smart). I've had good influences--my parents had money, but we didn't keep up with anyone. I'm grateful that I wasn't spoiled like a lot of my friends were.

[Gumbeaux]

I still want to stay a week at Miraval (http://www.miravalresort.com/main.php) with my wife even if we can't afford it. :D

[lindrusso]

We are definitely living beyond our means since DH was laid off, but before that, we were well within our means. ;)

When people talk about "being in debt" I always take that to mean consumer debt, not mortgages (and possibly not cars either - most people cannot afford to buy those outright). If you have just purchased a house and are carrying say, $100,000 mortgage, that's obviously not the same thing as carrying $100,000 in credit card debt.

I'm in the camp with those who could not sleep at night if we had the debt these people were talking about.

What riles me up the most though, is the parents with the kids who feel entitled to their new car while their parents struggle to pay bills. The kids are bratty and the parents are stupid and clueless. It's hard to have sympathy for them - it was all completely in their control. Don't whine about not having money when you'll go out and buy your kid a new car.

I also don't get the people who eat out all the time and then complain they have no money. :rolleyes: Or who can't pay their fees (leave their book fees unpaid and get free lunches) at school because they have no money but some how, some way, they can afford to smoke. ARGH! :mad:

[foodfiend]

I don't live beyond my means, nor do any of my friends. I think it's a matter of values. My parents grew up poor, so that meant a lot of their "a penny saved is a penny earned" values were passed onto me. As well, I've been out of work at times. There's nothing like brushes with poverty to make you appreciate money :o

[wallycat]

When I was single and earning a meager salary, I lived below my means and managed to save and allow myself occasional splurges (trip to Japan, nice artwork, jewelry, etc.).

When I got married, I lived and we still live below our means. Thankfully, I married a guy who had the same mind-set about money. I can see how it can be a huge problem spot otherwise.

I didn't see Oprah's show; this is just how DH and i have always elected to live.
HOpefully, we will never get into a medical bind that would throw us to the other group.

[VictoriaL]

Hmmmm. I wonder how I could get my siblings to look at this thread without being blatently "HEY! READ THIS AND LEARN SOMETHING!!!" :rolleyes: I get tired of my sister whining about not having any money, even though both she and her DH are working professionals. She keeps the heat in her house at 72F because "the boys don't like to wear long sleeves". They have a huge television, a digital camera that is (somehow) also a video cam, three cars, the highest-speed internet available, and so on. I just found out that they have very little in a savings account and their 2 oldest boys are 17 and 18-- where is college tuition coming from? They're nice kids but not great students or athletes. My brother is in the same situation. He and his wife have blue-collar jobs. Their 3 kids are pre-teens, but there is no college fund. There IS, however, a new RV, a mega-tv, cell phones for all, a new top-of-the-line ATV, DSL, etc. :(

DH and I have no debt. We have paid off our mortgage and we pay off all credit cards, etc. every month. Yes we are very, very fortunate. But we also do not have cable tv, cell phones, etc. We do not actually want for anything. Whatever we really determine that we want, we research it, find the best price, and buy it. It's most important that we save for retirement and, because DH is self-employed, we also have ample savings for medical bills (don't start me on that!!!).

My Mom says that she can't understand how, in every way, her kids are all so totally different from each other...

[stefania4]

We live below our means because my husband and I have both had some financial hard times in our first marriages. Nothing feels as good as money in the bank, materially speaking.
Amen to that! I learned my lesson about spending too much & how long it takes to pay it off early, learned it well, and haven't made the same mistake again.

[GingerPow]

One of the best books I ever read in my life is "The Millionare Next Door." For those who have not read it, in a nutshell - the author illustrates how those people who appear wealthy may have mountains of debt. You can drive a Jaguar, live in a mansion, but it doesn't mean you own them. It might just mean you have a large pile of bills on your desk.

It is common for the true millionares in this country to have lived in the same house for 30 years, married to the same spouse for as many years, and more than likely to be the guy in the blue plumbers uniform or own the auto body shop, and driving the same car for 10 years. True millionares, as a rule, are not flashy, they appear to be the regular Joe/Jane.

I shop discount stores, hate to pay retail. I shop sales at the supermarket, splurge on a few items but only if they are truly worth it. We "pay ourselves first" and invest. Three kids to put through college, one almost through so we had better be smart or we'll be in trouble.

-->I'm editing to add that both DH and I came from very modest beginnings and we have worked very hard for what we have. I think many of us have. I detest that feeling of having no money. I feel too vulnerable so I like a little cushion.

My parent's marital problems and crazy arguments came from financial problems. I remember the calls from the collection agency. Awful.

I did not want that in my life, so I made a conscious decision that my life would be different. I always said I would live in the tiniest cottage and the simplest life, as long as I wouldn't have the crushing $tre$$ of money worries.

[jmarie]

I probably have the tendancy to live beyond my means, but DH helps keep my feet planted firmly on the ground.

[stacy7272]

I think there are a *ton* of people out there who appear "wealthy" but really aren't at all.
And vice versa (like GingerPow mentioned).

[Jazzmatazz49]

Or who can't pay their fees (leave their book fees unpaid and get free lunches) at school because they have no money but some how, some way, they can afford to smoke. ARGH! :mad:
Oh, my pet peeve! Don't even get me started on that one! :mad:

[greysangel]

What makes me crazy is people who have mountains of debt and then declare bancruptcy and make it go away. I know two people who have done that and it's just completely wrong...bancruptcy should be a LAST RESORT, not "oh I'm planning on declaring bancruptcy so let me just get liposuction done on credit before I do so" :eek: :eek: (yes, true story :mad: )

When I moved to NYC, I had quite a bit of debt between college stupidity, my dad dying my senior year and then the move itself and being in a big new city and wanting to go out with new work buddies etc.. It got out of control *for me* (though by the sounds of it, not even touching some of the peeps on the Oprah show) and I consolidated it instead of declaring bancruptcy. It took until last year (10 years!!!) to pay it off but I DID!

Now Chaz and I are debt free...just the mortgage thanks. We were going to get a new car and then decided why? My bonus will pay for a used car out right including the first year of insurance that will do us fine...getting from point a to point b. The refund we get in taxes goes straight back into the house. We save up for our vacations and either pay them up front or pay the debt off the next month. Sometimes I feel the impulse to keep up ..or to buy the $300 purse or the $1000 Jiimmy Choos or refit the house with brand new furniture or fittings..but for the most part I resist and only do something like that when I know we have the income coming to cover it after the pay off to the bills, savings, mortgage is cleared.

I honestly can't imagine doing it another way and it works for us..we certainly don't want to work for the rest of our lives and we sure as heck don't want to be dodging phone calls and bill collectors into old age :D

ps my favorite is my peers who live paycheck to paycheck, are "SOOOOO broke", but yet eat out everyday breakfast and lunch and have a $10 a day Starbucks habit. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[stefania4]

ps my favorite is my peers who live paycheck to paycheck, are "SOOOOO broke", but yet eat out everyday breakfast and lunch and have a $10 a day Starbucks habit. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:I had a group of girlfriends in my mid-twenties - we did everything together. None of us made great money (30k or under, back in the mid-90's). I never seemed to be able to afford concert tickets and dinner at nicer restaurants the way some of the other girls did and I couldn't figure out what I was doing so terribly wrong with my cash.

It all became clear eventually - in addition to being the one who couldn't go to pricey concerts, I was also the one with a savings acccount, 401k, and employee stock purchase plan. Can I tell you how happy I was to have all those things when all the technical jobs went overseas and I had to start over with a $22k paycut?

[badunnin]

ps my favorite is my peers who live paycheck to paycheck, are "SOOOOO broke", but yet eat out everyday breakfast and lunch and have a $10 a day Starbucks habit. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

That's a girlfriend of mine. She is saving towards retirement, but never has cash in the here and now, so she says. However, she and her BF will go out once a week and run up a $100 tab for dinner and drinks. That's $400 a month!

Anyways, I'm definitely living below my means. No debt besides the mortgage and car, no student loans, credit cards, etc. Haven't cracked the seal on my CC in years.

[SueK]

Yesterday's Oprah show was really interesting. I'll be anxious to see how the 3 families that are doing the "debt diet" progess with paying down their debt and changing their lifestyles.

The first family they profiled has something like $117K in debt, not including their mortage. The wife forged her husband's signature so she could get a brand new Durango, then decided she needed to "move up" and then got a Beamer.

The thing that killed me was that she said they eat out three meals a day! She showed her cupboards and basically had no food in them, plus she keeps paper plates and cups on hand to use for all their takeout food. They have two kids and I forget how much they estimated it cost for 4 of them to eat out 3 meals a day, but their financial counselor said that has to be one of the first things to end.

Anyway, to answer the question, we don't live beyond our means. I've had tendencies in the past to go a little nuts on credit cards, so I just don't use them anymore. I use our debit card for stuff so that I can see it come directly out of our accounts. I know we can still do better about finances, though, so we will be reexamining our budget soon.

[foodfiend]

For those who watched the Oprah show, can I ask -- what exactly did these people with the huge debt spend their money on?

[lindrusso]

Let's see, clothes, crafts, indulging their kids, dinner out, you name it. More than one couple said that if they saw something they wanted, they bought it. One couple built a house they couldn't afford.

One woman had a $5,000/year cell phone bill! My cell phone and landline bills combined add up to probably less than $500 a year!

[foodfiend]

From the sounds of it, these people view spending money as a hobby.

[mbrogier]

It just amazes me the things people can spend money on. Rob has wanted a surround sound system for our living room, but we haven't had the money with everything else. He's shopped around and bought the two pieces of equipment he had to have on clearance, one was free because he had saved gift certificates to best buy. Someone he knows upgraded their speakers and gave us an entire set of surround sound speakers for free. :D The whole digital surround sound system cost $300. If we need something for the house, we research it to death. It took us two years to find the kitchen trash can we wanted because we didn't want to pay full price for it. We're really happy with the one we bought on clearance. I think we enjoy the hunt more than anything else. :p

Even though we've had debt that couldn't be avoided because of continued health issues despite insurance, we've continued with retirement savings and life insurance. The difference between investing at 25 and 30 is like 2 million dollars in interest. We didn't want to lose that. We also have a company IRA and a new savings program through our bank. We try to find as much free money as we can.

[Kristal]

The only debt we have is our mortgage; we always pay cash for our cars and pay off any credit card balances at the end of the month. We both have savings and investments, but could probably try to save more each month than we do.

[Chefzhat]

So far the 9 people who have voted "overspend" have not posted their comments?? Did I miss something?

[foodlady]

Count us as living as debt-free as possible! Our mortgage is our only debt. We save for other big expenses like cars and home improvements. Interestingly, a lot of our friends who think they can't live this way have bought new cars recently. Really nice new cars. Meanwhile, we stick with our "bought for $7,000 used Windstar." So, a lot of this is just a basic choice to spend what we can afford, and no more.

Incidentally, our debt-free system saved us four years ago when my dh was out of work for a year, and I was pregnant w/ twins and on total bedrest. We were very grateful that we could adjust our spending accordingly and stretch our savings to last for that looooong year!

[Kayaksoup]

Count me as a "we are on our way". We used to make a lot more money and were spending less than we earned, then I changed career direction and went to school. The tuition fees went on our credit cards (what I wasn't able to pay off in the six months before I started school). Then I stopped working for a month and when I started working again, I made almost half what I did BEFORE.

However, watching that show last night made me realise that we are nowhere as bad as we could be. Our credit card debt is only about 8000$ and now that I am working two jobs and almost making what I used to, we are chipping away at the mountain.
We have no mortgage, no kids and our car was free. We don't eat out much, but buy the good stuff for cooking and eating at home. We haven't had clothes that don't have holes in a long time.

I suspect that the others that voted are afraid of being judged for the way they live ~ I know I am.

[foodlady]

I suspect that the others that voted are afraid of being judged for the way they live ~ I know I am.

I just re-read my own post, and realize how "arrogant" it comes off. I definitely get that there are MANY reasons why people go into debt, and it's certainly not all consumer spending. Medical bills, job loss, and change of career can all bring debt. I would never judge someone because of debt, and I also know that even with our careful "plan," my own family is not immune. None of us knows what's coming just around the corner.

With that said, I don't understand staggering consumer debt to "keep up" appearances and live a fancy life.

Kayaksoup -- thank you for sharing your story with us. It sounds like you are doing the best you can with what you've got!

[Kayaksoup]

I should add that I am obsessive about it because I racked up almost 12000$ in BAD debt when I was 19, and only just cleared myself of that. I never want to be in that place again.

[Chefzhat]

I suspect that the others that voted are afraid of being judged for the way they live ~ I know I am.
Exactly my thought. I was trying to gently remind everyone of that fact. There are lots of ways to get into debt.

Debie

[cminmd]

Three couples-
First couple- two professionals- 2 kids, made over 100k a year, had huge house, 4 or 5 cars, and she spent TONS of money on clothes, hair, eating out EVERY meal- yes 21 meals a week. Call her Mother Hubbard because her cupboards were BARE, I haven't seen a frig that empty since college. She also went out and leased a piano for her daughter which I guess costs more than buying the piano. I think it still might be better to lease because how do you know your kid will really like the piano? She also had a ton of college loan debt.
Second couple- two teachers- 3 kids, went into trouble when he took a big paycut to go back to school and become a teacher, but they had already started building their dream house. I think they make about 80k. Burned through 40k in his 401K fund he had to pull out of his former company.
Third couple- two blue collar workers- 2 teen girls- She spent about 4k a year on crafts and 2k on new car for daughters car (present for birthday), and only God knows how much on clothes and stuff to spoil girls.

I can't remember how much the last two couples made or were in debt.

We do have two car payments, a mortgage and about 8K in credit card debt (we had to get siding and new windows for our townhouse and we wanted to use or tax return to pay for it, but couldn't wait that long. Baby it's COLD outside!) I would put us between ok and on our way. We have about 22k each saved for the kids college fund already and they are 9 and 7, but I wish it was more. We also invest in my husbands 401K and stock purchase plan. Sometimes I think it is dumb to invest money with credit card debt but we just set the 401 and stock automatically and the debt comes and go. We did invest with my brother and father in law in some property as well.
We don't live extravagantly, townhouse, five and 6 year old cars. We do like our tivo's and internet access.
For those of you that are good researchers- how do you do it! My aunt is they type of person who never buys anything without checking all the angles. I find it exhausting to look for deals and comparison shop. It's like having another job.

[lindrusso]

Exactly my thought. I was trying to gently remind everyone of that fact. There are lots of ways to get into debt.

Certainly there are many ways to go into debt, but I think most of us were talking about the kind of debt the Oprah show was talking about - these were people who simply spent WAY more than they could afford for no other reason than because they wanted to. No job loss, serious illness or other crises going on in the stories I saw. Harder to make excuses for that kind of thing.

[Chefzhat]

I agree, just being overly cautious I guess. :)

[VictoriaL]

I think that, for most people, the trickle out of small amounts of money doesn't seem to make an impression on them at all regarding their budget and how much money they spend. If my sister and brother would simply get a piece of paper and write down what they and their spouses spend cash on each day for a couple of weeks, then add up the various categories, I know that they would be shocked, especially by things like coffee and quick fast-food lunches. But it's too time consuming and I really feel that they would rather not know. I just hope that they all keep their jobs and maintain their good health (not easy when you eat fast-food lunches almost every day, though...).

Another big problem is this "buy now, don't make any payments for 18 months". My brother bought a $7000 ATV, and was so proud that he only had to put down $500 and wouldn't have to start making payments for 6 months. I can't imagine how much he is going to end up paying for this thing, and I can't understand why he or his wife didn't figure it out.

[Aubergine]

Another big problem is this "buy now, don't make any payments for 18 months". My brother bought a $7000 ATV, and was so proud that he only had to put down $500 and wouldn't have to start making payments for 6 months. I can't imagine how much he is going to end up paying for this thing, and I can't understand why he or his wife didn't figure it out.

too bad he's being ignorant about it. used wisely, this is one of the best things to come along in ages!!! SO and i have taken advantage of a few "no payments or interest for 6/12/18 months" offers. that's how we bought the new computer a year ago, that's how we're financing the $5,000 worth of absolutely necessary dental work that i needed, that's how we're going to purchase SO's long hoped-for new HDTV (but it'll only be a 30" screen:D, under pain of my wrath).

we check and double check each situation three times, and then get a customer service rep on the phone to be absolutely certain. in everycase, what it's come down to is: 1. making at least the minimal payment each month (and you must pay attention closely to the due-date); 2: paying the entire amount off before the time period ends. we usually break the amount down by months and make a larger payment the first 2-3 months, to allow for a possible problem down the road.

i am always amazed by people who buy 'bargains' on credit at 22-26% interest rates :rolleyes: also, that more people don't take advantage of making additional payments on the principal in their mortgage payments, which can save a gazillion.

[HejazSunKat]

So far the 9 people who have voted "overspend" have not posted their comments?? Did I miss something?

I think I HAVE missed something. How do you figure out that people have voted but not posted comments?

[Tammy2268]

The first couple on Oprah spent $100 A DAY on fast food, $7000 a year on her HAIR, and was $170,000 in debt. This is an on-going program on Oprah, so it will be interesting to follow...from the tidbits from a future show, looks like there were heated remarks between the first couple and the woman who is to help them.
I plan to follow it to see how they turn themselves around...
We are debt free, and pay our credit cards off every month...but don't use them very much.

[Aubergine]

I think I HAVE missed something. How do you figure out that people have voted but not posted comments?

having also noticed that comment and having just re-read the entire thread before my own post, i'd say because no one who is overspending has posted anything about it. (we still love you! we're not here to judge you.)

suz

[lindrusso]

too bad he's being ignorant about it. used wisely, this is one of the best things to come along in ages!!!

I agree. It can absolutely be used as an interest-free loan, but only if you are careful, like you say, to pay it off before the due date. They make their money on those who do not pay attention and are not diligent about paying it off - and I guess there must be quite a few of those since they keep offering these programs.

The other downside about these programs is that you usually have to apply for a line of credit or a credit card, so it does show up on your credit report and can be counted against you.

Department store clerks never seem to understand why I wouln't want to open another line of credit so that I can save 10% on my purchase today. :rolleyes:

[Aubergine]

Department store clerks never seem to understand why I wouln't want to open another line of credit so that I can save 10% on my purchase today. :rolleyes:

SO takes particular enjoyment in this one; it only happens at Sears and Macy's, but when it does, he gives everyone within earshot a lesson, usually centering on the one time 3 years ago he was delayed with a payment and was hit with a $30 late fee :rolleyes: on a small balance, even with a years-long excellent payment record. times have really changed. my guess is that many persons aren't diligent about stuff like that, and also don't scrutinize their monthly bills closely.

[gertdog]

We're in the "doing okay" category. We bought a house a year and a half ago, and spent more than planned on furniture, yard improvements, etc. Now we're in maintenance mode and our budget appears to be back on track, though things will be really, really tight once DS starts part-time daycare in a few months.

We're in our early-mid 30s, but DH and I have only been in the working world for about 4 years. Before that, we were in school, earning $12k/year apiece as graduate teaching assistants.

Now we have a mortgage and school loans. We are making payments on one car. We occasionally carry a credit card balance for a month or two (did so last fall when I took two unpaid months off work after my paid maternity leave ended). But we have also, in the past four years, built up a decent emergency savings fund, opened an investment account, and contributed the maximum to our IRAs and 401(k) accounts.

I read somewhere in the past few weeks that the average *working* 50-year-old American woman has less than $10K saved for retirement. That astonishes me.

[tbb113]

I read somewhere in the past few weeks that the average *working* 50-year-old American woman has less than $10K saved for retirement. That astonishes me.

That doesn't really surprise me. The average 50-year old woman was brought up with the hopes that her husband was going to provide for her. Her income was for extras and fun.

[imloulou]

too bad he's being ignorant about it. used wisely, this is one of the best things to come along in ages!!!


I agree 100%...we use the 0% financing wisely. One at a time, pay more than the minimum and follow the rules. (dont make late payments...dont have any other charges on the card because they will pay off your 0% first and leave other charges hanging while gathering interest) I got my stove, laptop, sewing machine, and other things we would not have been able to pay cash up front. With payments we can easily get things we would have had to wait for. (Without 0% financing we would have waited of course but if the rules are followed it is a good thing.)

We are doing good but I'm sure things can be tightened up a bit. We own our own business (building+business+renters) and have double bills on everything. But our business was a great investment (worth quite a bit over twice what we paid) We have the debt but have not put ourselves in a scarey position.

I have been in the position of "lay awake at night wondering how" and I never want to be there again.

[mbrogier]

too bad he's being ignorant about it. used wisely, this is one of the best things to come along in ages!!!


It's great, but I will never do it again if I don't have the money in the bank as back up. If you were to say, have a stroke and your husband loses his job which means you have to move and pay for two houses at one time...that plan just doesn't work out the way it should. :rolleyes:

The other thing that gets me is family members who have absolutely no clue about how much money we make, how great our medical debt was and isn't now, and still judge how we spend our money. These same family members never got maternity insurance because it would be cheaper to pay out of pocket. :eek: (that came around and bit them in the butt.)

[ChristieinMB]

The other thing that gets me is family members who have absolutely no clue about how much money we make, how great our medical debt was and isn't now, and still judge how we spend our money. These same family members never got maternity insurance because it would be cheaper to pay out of pocket. :eek: (that came around and bit them in the butt.)
Regardless of what they know about your personal finances, why would they judge how you spend your money?

[Farhana]

We are in the doing ok category. DH is a full time phd student and research assistent and I'm a stay at home mom. We have no debt and we spend our money very carefully, every cent of it. I never paid full price for anything no matter how much I want it/need it, but we don't shop from consignment/thrift stores either(DH doesn't like it). I have a budget and write down everything, so that I know where the money went and save all the receipts so that if I change my mind I can get a full refund. We hardly ever eat out, instead I make good, healthy food at home. We are happy the way we are, who knew penny pinching could be so much fun ;)!

[mbrogier]

Regardless of what they know about your personal finances, why would they judge how you spend your money?

Who knows? People judge other people all the time. I think it's part of the human condition.

[wintersummer]

I think we developed pretty good financial management skills way back when we had nothing. We had nothing, so we assumed we had no money to spend. As the years have gone on and income has gotten much better, we continue to live like the old days. I don't believe in buying just to buy. We (husband and myself) don't spend money on gifts, but love to travel, so that's our gift to one another. We tend to splurge on travel, nice restaurants, good food - but certainly not to the point of any debt to pay for it. I heard someone say that the most valuable things in life aren't "things" but experiences. So, we tend to spend our money on experiences. One more thing my wise husband did. 28 years ago, back when we had nothing, he suggested having $50 automatically deducted from checking account to go into mutual fund. We did that for a year and then added another fund, again with $50 a month. Each year that went by we added another automatic deduction of $50, each going into different fund. We didn't know a thing about financial management and blindly selected the funds. This was, without a doubt, one of the best decisions we've ever made. That early saving strategy has continued throughout the years.

[Jazzmatazz49]

A local banker, who should know, told DH that you would be surprised at how few people can put their hands on even $1000 liquid cash if they need it for an emergency. That seems odd since our town is full of new, outlandishly expensive homes built by the 30 and 40 year old crowd. Apparently lots of them have interest only mortgages. That strikes me as very scary.

[VictoriaL]

too bad he's being ignorant about it. used wisely, this is one of the best things to come along in ages!!!

I so agree, and we have done that on several occasions. It allows our money to sit in our bank account for an extra few months and then we pay off the purchase in the first month that it is due. But my little brother does this because he doesn't have the cash, but wants the stuff anyway. And what frightens me is that their son thinks that using this payment "deal" is the best way to get all of the things they can't afford, but want anyway.

Regardless of what they know about your personal finances, why would they judge how you spend your money?

Oooh, in my case, it's because they're my FAMILY.... :(
(as in "well, why don't you pay for Mom and Dad's 50th anniversary party since you don't have kids?"-- yes, the sibling who said that to me was absolutely serious!)

[Meganator]

Despite the impeccable example set by my parents, I did get into some credit card overspending when I was single and in my 20s. However, DH and I are debt-free. We do put everything we can (both personal and business) on a credit card, in order to earn airline miles, but we never carry a balance. We also postponed payment on our carpet because it was interest-free for a few months, but DH was asking me every week to make sure we didn't miss the payment deadline on that.

I know people making really good money who are living paycheck to paycheck, and, honestly, I have NO idea what they are spending it on. I know they aren't saving it, and that just annoys me because I assume I will be paying for them, in some form or other, sometime down the line.

[boisewinesnob]

We do have some debt....mainly due to the fact that I quit my job when we moved in 2000 (I made as much as DH). I took a PT job for a lot less $$ per hour (Idaho's motto!) and went back to school.

The good news is that when our house sells we should have enough to be completely out of debt plus have quite a bit for downpayment on our new house. Yay!!
Oh yeah, and I'll be done with school in May :D


If only I could've lived with my parents until I was 30......

[Paula H]

We're doing okay; we keep within our income without too many problems. There isn't a huge amount of money leftover, but enough for us to be chipping away at the mortgage. We don't have any debts apart from the mortgage either, which is how we like it - neither of us feels comfortable with being in debt.

I guess the big thing for me is that I don't want to end up like my parents - my father is 67, lives in rental accommodation, and has no money to his name. This is despite being paid out when both his marriage and the following relationship broke up, after the house from each was sold. He just fritters it all away on nothingness. He's had to cash in all his life insurance policies over the years, to help pay off his credit cards.

When I was a kid, I remember my parents always struggling/juggling when bills came in to be paid - and they were both working in reasonably well paid jobs (at a time when mothers really didn't work here). So it's really important to me to have money in the bank to cover the bills.

Dr Love and I try to focus on the long-term lifestyle we want, without sacrificing too much right now. It seems to work (most of the time!).

[JackieO]

First couple- two professionals- 2 kids, made over 100k a year, had huge house, 4 or 5 cars, and she spent TONS of money on clothes, hair, eating out EVERY meal- yes 21 meals a week. Call her Mother Hubbard because her cupboards were BARE, I haven't seen a frig that empty since college. She also went out and leased a piano for her daughter which I guess costs more than buying the piano. I think it still might be better to lease because how do you know your kid will really like the piano? She also had a ton of college loan debt.


To anyone else who watched this show....what did you THINK of this woman? Was she a piece of work or what? If I remember correctly, their combined income was $102,000 and their debt was $170,000. She's the one who spent $7,500 on her hair a year, forged hubby's name to buy the Durango and is the one seen in the preview back at the hair salon with Jean Chatzky (her financial guru who was going to move in with these idiots to help them get a grip!) yelling at her, "I don't care how pi$$ed off you get at me, you signed an agreement!"

This is a college-educated woman who threw her bills away instead of paying them.

Ok, back to the poll question. Having been raised by Depression-era parents, DH and I obviously live well within our means. We are keeping our fingers crossed for good health that will allow us to reap the rewards of our retirement savings. ;)

[Chefzhat]

I guess the big thing for me is that I don't want to end up like my parents - my father is 67, lives in rental accommodation, and has no money to his name. This is despite being paid out when both his marriage and the following relationship broke up

Read the "millionaire next door". One of the biggest indicators of wealth/poverty is if someone has been divorced/ended long term relationships. The best way to increase wealth is to stay married (or single, depending). Interesting book.

[Paula H]

Read the "millionaire next door". One of the biggest indicators of wealth/poverty is if someone has been divorced/ended long term relationships. The best way to increase wealth is to stay married (or single, depending). Interesting book.

I think I've read it. I know I've definitely wanted to read it, anyway.

I think my father's biggest money problem is just sheer stupidity when it comes to money. And women. Yes, I'm sure it's fabulous to have one of the world's most complete collections of Ferrari model cars (don't get me wrong, I love Ferraris too!), but when you're on a limited income, perhaps you don't need to spend thousands of dollars a year on them and Ferrari books and Ferrari caps and other bits of stuff. And of course you need to subscribe to at least five different auto magazines.

Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile Dr Love has just joined his employer's superannuation scheme - we'll have to work hard to manage with a bit less money in the hand each month, but the scheme is too good to miss out on.

Man, I feel like a grown up!!

[mbrogier]

A local banker, who should know, told DH that you would be surprised at how few people can put their hands on even $1000 liquid cash if they need it for an emergency. That seems odd since our town is full of new, outlandishly expensive homes built by the 30 and 40 year old crowd. Apparently lots of them have interest only mortgages. That strikes me as very scary.

THAT is scary. I know with how much money Rob makes that when we get to the point that we want to buy/build another house that we could get a really $$$ house. I don't want one that I can barely afford to pay the mortgage on--even if everyone else is doing it. :rolleyes: It's even more scary to get that large of a house on an interest only mortgage! You'd have no equity when you sold your house and might wind up paying to move out. I'd really like to own my house outright if possible, but if there was a better way to invest my money I'd do that.

[Kristilyn1]

Just a few months ago I was having a conversation with a friend and she was telling me about her friend and the absolutely beautiful brand new house they built and what the heck was she (my friend) doing wrong that SHE couldn't afford a house like that. Well, come to find out--her friend has an interest only mortgage and her ENTIRE MONTHLY INCOME goes to the mortgage! (she either makes the same as her husband or is the primary breadwinner) Her husband pays the other bills from his income. THERE'S your answer! You too can have this house, just get approved for the absolute maximum the bank allows and make sure it's interest only! Yikes.

Kristi

[ellielk]

Just a few months ago I was having a conversation with a friend and she was telling me about her friend and the absolutely beautiful brand new house they built and what the heck was she (my friend) doing wrong that SHE couldn't afford a house like that.

I wasn't going to post on this thread (I have managed to get into the situation where I have no debt and don't want to come across as arrogant) but the post from Kristi tickled me.

Several years ago among some friends one was remodeling her kitchen and one was putting a big addition onto his house. I wondered why they (I knew they both were making less money than I was) could afford to to this stuff and it seemed that what they both had in common was the same financial advisor. So, I went to the guy and he looked at my financial situation and asked me why I thought I couldn't afford to redo my kitchen, which is what I wanted. He pointed out that I had almost no debt (no mortgage on the condo, just maintenance; no credit card debt, just the car loan). He advised me to pay off the car from my credit union account and we started investing some of my 'extra' money.

I have one credit card and I write all my charges in my checkbook and balance the statement just as I do with my bank statement. Then, I write a check for the entire amount of the bill. I manage to save or invest, in one form or another, 53% of my gross income. Having a good savings ethic (thanks mom and dad) and a good financial advisor has been the key to my financial security.

[funnybone]

I finally watched that episode and am appalled at that first couple. Did I hear correctly that they have 5 cars? Spending $100 a day on take out? No wonder they are in trouble. Ridiculous! I've set the TIVO already for the next episode on Friday just to see if they have changed.

As for the last couple with the teenage daughters - can't the kids get a job (Or do they have one and I missed it?). I have no problem telling my kids NO and I can afford to buy them what they are asking for. They need to know they can't get everything they want - just because "it's the latest and greatest" or "all their friends have one". Too bad so sad!

[funnybone]

One more thing - I can't believe that people can actually ingnore their bills when they come in the mail. :eek:

I'm the complete opposite. I go online and look for my bills. We even pay some off before the bill is even due - such as a credit card. I've started paying groceries with our visa only because of the United miles. DH flies them all the time, so the miles add up quickly. However, I pay off those charges every Friday, so it's like I have used cash or a debit card. If there is anything I hate, is getting a bill for something that has long been eaten or used. Dry cleaning is another example - by the time the bills come in, the clothes have been dry cleaned again.

[Momandsk8er]

I checked off on our way if we don't change. We just consolidated all our debt (except mtg and our only car payment) and I'm embarrassed at what the amount is. We have an excellent credit score and always pay everything on time, and 10% goes right into 401(k). Where did we go wrong? At least half of that is home improvements - replacement windows, heat pump, water heater, roof. The other half is what I lost in income 3.5 years ago when I decided to stay home and be a full-time mom. We didn't cut back as much spending as I thought we would, and are not good at budgeting, despite both of us having excellent examples in our parents. We are now trying to mend our ways - at the age of 40. Better late than never I guess. We did ask our daughter if she would rather I go back to work so we can continue to spend or stay home and watch our pennies. She voted to watch the pennies (she is 8). So the debt is too high for my comfort, but having worked in the lending area of a bank realize it is not like others, we bought our townhome 11 years ago and have no intentions of moving, we have a well-adjusted daughter, savings for retirement and college, but a hefty bill to pay for the next 15 years. I am encouraged to read here that a budget can be stuck to and cash can be paid for everything!

[foodfiend]

I wanted to add something...I had said I don't live beyond my means now, and I don't. But there have been times when I've had a steady job, and I just bought what I wanted, ate out frequently etc without thinking twice about it. It was amazing how quickly the costs add up! It's the "not thinking twice about it" part that kills you. I've discovered that managing your finances really is like being on a diet because you have to be conscious of what you spend.

[Chelle D]

We live below our means now only because we are doing a great job cutting back and paying off debt. We both came into the marriage 5 years ago with debt, them immigration costs and in vitro took us very deep. It's almost paid off, through a ton of hard work. I don't think we will be stable for awhile as we have many high costs things in our lives that cannot be helped (finally traveling to see family overseas and looking to adopt), but we do not live frivolously at all. Eventually, I would love to have a savings account and a retirement plan!

[funnybone]

I wanted to add something...I had said I don't live beyond my means now, and I don't. But there have been times when I've had a steady job, and I just bought what I wanted, ate out frequently etc without thinking twice about it. It was amazing how quickly the costs add up! It's the "not thinking twice about it" part that kills you. I've discovered that managing your finances really is like being on a diet because you have to be conscious of what you spend.


I agree - I can see where it would be easy to fall into a trap. We've all had times when we have spent more than what we made or had at the time. The key is recognizing early on that you are spending too much and cutting back BEFORE it gets out of hand. If you don't stay on top of it, then that is where the problem lies. The fact that these people were oblivious to what they owed was amazing to me. How can you not know. I guess if you want to act like an ostrich and stick you head in the sand, then it is easy. I'm not an ostrich, thankfully.

[Kristilyn1]

I think one of the main problems of living beyond your means is that if you buy everything you want, nothing is special anymore. I am very conscious of this with my kids----imagine a world where nothing was felt to be a treat?

I think it sounds terrible. Go beyond the obvious reasons for not spoiling your children and imagine if you couldn't get a little lift out of ANYTHING because you always gave yourself exactly what you wanted. It makes me shudder.

Kristi

[Valerie226]

So many people seem to be confused about the difference between what they need and what they want.
I have a sister who's a financial nightmare. she's had difficult times many of her own making but when you can't afford to gas up your car it's time to cut the cable TV. She's amazed us with ridiculous financial decisions. she has borrowed money from everyone(especially our mother) and has no way to pay it back. A relative gave her $500 because they knew she was in a pinch, and she spent it all on a new pedigreed dog instead of applying it to outstanding debts. Fortunately she can't get credit cards anymore so she doesn't have debt there but she doesn't have a nickel in her pocket either. she owes the doctor, the veterinarian, the dentist, the plumber etc etc. I could not live like that for a day.
DH and I are comfortable. We pay off credit cards every month, pay cash for cars. our only debt is our mortgage and that's almost paid off. We plan major purchases ahead rather than impulse buy. gives time to think about whether it's worth the cost.

[stacy7272]

A relative gave her $500 because they knew she was in a pinch, and she spent it all on a new pedigreed dog instead of applying it to outstanding debts.
This reminded me of a woman I saw on Oprah many years ago when Dr. Phil would do his weekly appearance. The family made 6 figures a year and they were in debt. She figured her husband would just get a raise.

Anyway, this woman really wanted a jogging stroller and was going to buy one when a friend of the woman's offered to give the woman hers. Isn't that great that she got to save money? No, she decided to go buy something else with the money she would have spent on the stroller! :rolleyes:

[Valerie226]

This reminds me of something I think I heard on Oprah or Dr. phil. If you redistributed all the money in the world equally to everyone, inside of several months it would all be be reconfigured back to where 5% have most of it and 95% have little.... or something like that. if someone knows the exact quote it would be good.

[blazedog]

After reading this thread, I managed to catch the episode on TIVO.

Since the majority of bankruptcies and real financial problems in this country are NOT caused by frivolous spending but rather real emergencies such as medical bills or extended bouts of unemployment, it's a little disconcerting to see the energy devoted to discuss an issue which afflicts the relatively affluent who have clear choices and can enjoy the good or pretty good life with a few minor adjustments.

It's really easy to feel superior to the families on the show because they are utterly preposterous in terms of their egregious habits -- obviously chosen for that purpose.

I would think it much more interesting and illuminating for Oprah to provide financial insight to those families strugging to make it on Walmart wages and no benefits rather than idiots who make $100,000 a year and can't control their discretionary spending.

[jellyben]

After reading this thread, I managed to catch the episode on TIVO.

Since the majority of bankruptcies and real financial problems in this country are NOT caused by frivolous spending but rather real emergencies such as medical bills or extended bouts of unemployment, it's a little disconcerting to see the energy devoted to discuss an issue which afflicts the relatively affluent who have clear choices and can enjoy the good or pretty good life with a few minor adjustments.

It's really easy to feel superior to the families on the show because they are utterly preposterous in terms of their egregious habits -- obviously chosen for that purpose.

I would think it much more interesting and illuminating for Oprah to provide financial insight to those families strugging to make it on Walmart wages and no benefits rather than idiots who make $100,000 a year and can't control their discretionary spending.

Exactly why DH can't stand Oprah. Sensationalist TV which would have us believe the guests on her show are the norm!

[foodfiend]

Oprah isn't the only one on this bandwagon. The cover article of Toronto Life magazine was about upper-middle class families who seem to be doing a lot better than they are because they are deeply in debt. Their kids are in private school, they take nice vacations...and they have a mountain of debt. Their retirement fund is basically going to be their house. (Housing prices in Toronto are outrageous)

[blazedog]

Oprah isn't the only one on this bandwagon. The cover article of Toronto Life magazine was about upper-middle class families who seem to be doing a lot better than they are because they are deeply in debt. Their kids are in private school, they take nice vacations...and they have a mountain of debt. Their retirement fund is basically their house. (Housing prices in Toronto are outrageous)

I didn't mean to imply that Oprah was alone in this as there are stories about it in one form or another in a variety of media.

My point is that it's just another example of media ducking the hard issues and dumbing down what people read and talk about.

Of course there are a few highly affluent idiots who spend more than they make -- always have been and always will be -- Veblen was writing about it back in the 19th Century and the term "keeping up with the Joneses" was rolled out to exactly the same kind of omigodness in the fifties with the initial advent of the buy now pay later economy -- going to hell in a handbasket.

However, most families with economic issues are not living on the edge because of too many Starbucks and designer purses. It would be nice if the same energy was used to people scraping by because they make too little and the basics like housing and doctors cost more than they make. :)

[Goin' Coastal]

However, most families with economic issues are not living on the edge because of too many Starbucks and designer purses. It would be nice if the same energy was used to people scraping by because they make too little and the basics like housing and doctors cost more than they make. :)

Unfotunately, those aren't issues that can be solved by a financial advisor. They are societal issues much too complicated to be solved in a couple segments of Oprah.

[blazedog]

Unfotunately, those aren't issues that can be solved by a financial advisor. They are societal issues much too complicated to be solved in a couple segments of Oprah.

Absolutely - my only point is that Oprah has a "bully pulpit" and it would be nice to see that energy directed at solving a real issue or at least opening people's eyes up to the plight of the working poor.

Even if she didn't want to deal with those living on the edge, it would have been more illuminating to her audience to illustrate how a more typical American family who isn't blowing obscene amounts on ridiculous stuff can work their budget so as to be more than a few paychecks away from fiscal disaster.

How hard is it to look at the idiots she chose and get them out of debt? :D

[Lucinda]

My mom can squeeze a nickel til Jefferson screams and luckily I learned from her. It makes life so much easier to not have financial problems and to be able to live within one's means and every day I give thanks that I am in this situation. It also helps that my favorite splurge (books) can be satisfied for under $20 at a library book sale. When friends ask for advice on how to maximize their money, I always tell them to find a cheap, guiltless splurge and also, to give to charity. It's the oddest thing, Mom and I can't figure out how it works, but it seems that we always end up getting far more (in money, in good experiences, in joy) back than what we give away!

[Kristilyn1]

As has been mentioned, there are many more important stories to cover about poverty---but Oprah does do plenty of shows about that kind of thing--Katrina victims, the plight of women in Africa, sexual predators etc., etc.

While the story of the crazy spendaholics is certainly not in the same ballpark as the above stories, and yes, it's about the "wow" factor, vs. a public service announcement--I beg to differ that the story is not important. I just did a quick search of bankruptcy statistics and it appears (disclaimer here: I did not spend the time to search exhaustively, but did check a couple different sources) and while it appears that many people file bankruptcy due in part to medical bills, there are arguably, just as many that file for other reasons. The statistics show that as a country we are carrying more and more consumer debt--my personal opinion, not really backed by anything is that many people are currently fueling their consumer debt with the equity in their homes. This can lead to all kinds of future problems.

There are many of us who see people that you guess probably make around the same amount of money as yourself, yet you are left scratching your heads as to how they make it. Well, this show told us how some of them are doing it. I think that it's important that as a country we all sit down and think about how we spend our money. I bet there is more than one couple that saw that show and secretly thought "that could be us". I also listen to a local money show on the radio on weekends here in the Boston area, and you'd be surprised how many people call in asking really stupid financial questions and they are carrying WAY too much debt, have no savings and worse, no life insurance. So yes, it might be a little sensational, but let's face it, these people are out there, and if people don't start getting a clue they will find their financial house of cards crashing around their ears.

Kristi

[Jazzmatazz49]

I watch Oprah mostly for entertainment, and I think it's really entertaining to watch nuts like these. I think it would be more realistic to show lower income people who have to choose between the electric bill or groceries, but it wouldn't garner nearly the audience. I think lots of us are dying to see the show when the live-in financial coach has to go one on one with the angry woman at the beauty salon.

Okay, so I'm not very sympathetic.

[ChristieinMB]

As has been mentioned, there are many more important stories to cover about poverty---but Oprah does do plenty of shows about that kind of thing--Katrina victims, the plight of women in Africa, sexual predators etc., etc.
Kristi
Repeat that - plenty of shows about Katrina, I turned on the other day, again another Katrina, back off for me.
I don't think anyone is looking for "hard news" on Oprah.

[ChristieinMB]

However, most families with economic issues are not living on the edge because of too many Starbucks and designer purses. It would be nice if the same energy was used to people scraping by because they make too little and the basics like housing and doctors cost more than they make. :)
Boring... been done over and over again. This is about ratings, not social justice.

[cminmd]

I think Oprah and Dr Phil do a good job highlighting social issues, but not everything needs to be about poor people. This is a social issue as well. Maybe they dont deserve sympathy, but they can certainly use help. And I do think most people could use the lessons learned on this show, they just are not as extreme. One of my favorite financial advisors is Elizabeth Warren- she shows up on Oprah and Phil. She talks about the coming bloom in bankrupcies as interest rates rise and all the people who currently hold interest only mortages or variable rate mortgages are going to go bankrupt from the extra 1 and 2 hundred a month in interest. They dont have the extra wiggle room in their budgets so they will add that straight to credit cards and eventually that debt carosel will come to a stop!

[Aubergine]

My mom can squeeze a nickel til Jefferson screams and luckily I learned from her. It makes life so much easier to not have financial problems and to be able to live within one's means and every day I give thanks that I am in this situation. It also helps that my favorite splurge (books) can be satisfied for under $20 at a library book sale. When friends ask for advice on how to maximize their money, I always tell them to find a cheap, guiltless splurge and also, to give to charity. It's the oddest thing, Mom and I can't figure out how it works, but it seems that we always end up getting far more (in money, in good experiences, in joy) back than what we give away!

ditto. Lucinda, i never heard that phrase, lol, but it's a great one.

having depression era-parents and GPs (who also endured the rationing in WWII) is both a teaching and a burden. these are persons for whom self-sacrifice is second nature, and although i've railed against their habits many times, they taught me countless lessons.

one was about saving to buy the best, and it's so valid...i have top-quality furniture, linens, clothing, and kitchen tools that i've slowly accumulated over 25 years, as well as some of the same things that my parents, GPs, and GGPs saved to buy. today's thow-away culture is anathema to me.

[ChristieinMB]

one was about saving to buy the best, and it's so valid...i have top-quality furniture, linens, clothing, and kitchen tools that i've slowly accumulated over 25 years, as well as some of the same things that my parents, GPs, and GGPs saved to buy. today's thow-away culture is anathema to me.
This reminds me of something I find odd, I bought a second home in the desert, many homes sell fully furnished, that makes sense for a second home, but we bought every piece of furniture in the seller's primary residence. It seems odd that the couple (in their fifties) do not have any accumulated things that are near and dear to them. Would you like to sell everything you own, to buy new furniture?

[mbrogier]

This reminds me of something I find odd, I bought a second home in the desert, many homes sell fully furnished, that makes sense for a second home, but we bought every piece of furniture in the seller's primary residence. It seems odd that the couple (in their fifties) do not have any accumulated things that are near and dear to them. Would you like to sell everything you own, to buy new furniture?

NO! Our dining set belonged to Rob's grandparents. The trestle table that is in our breakfast room was made by my dad. I love having family pieces and antiques. I love finding unique pieces. We do not have a headboard because we didn't want to buy cheap bedroom furniture and haven't wanted to spend the money on that yet. Aside from finding great quality pieces that will last a lifetime, I love finding this stuff on sale. We relish the hunt. It's a great free Saturday outing to go drool at antique malls and nice furniture stores. It also helps to plan everything in your room beforehand so you don't buy anything that doesn't work with everything else.

I agree with Aubergine. You save money by buying good quality items even if they cost a little more to begin with. At Christmas my MIL and I went shopping. I found two cashmere sweaters on clearance for $22 each. Sure, I can get an acrylic sweater for $15, but it isn't as warm and won't last anywhere near as long as the cashmere will! My MIL is understanding why I shop at more expensive stores because she's beginning to see that the quality is indeed better, and there are great sales. I'm still wearing some items I bought in college 7 years ago. (She used to think I wasted money on clothes and was stuck up for shopping where I did. Now she loves shopping at Talbots and such.)

I also agree that the majority of bankruptcy in America is from catastrophic events beyond the person's control. Rob and I could have filed for bankruptcy, but we didn't want to ruin our credit for so long. It has taken forever to pay off all our medical bills. We've been able to take a medical deduction for the past 3 years--and you can't do that unless you pay over 7% of your gross income in medical expenses. :eek: It hasn't been easy, and we haven't always made the best decisions with our money along the way. We do appreciate what we have so much more now. I think the lessons we've learned will help us so much in the coming days when Rob's chosen profession increases his income. (We don't value money more than his happiness or health so he does what he does because it is his bliss.) I think a financial planner will help us use our money the most to do what we want--help others, save for the future, adopt or foster children.