Barry Bonds - Anyone surprised!

[luvItalian]

I am a big sports fan, but I always tell my kids that these are not the people to hold out as heros. I have to ask, was anyone surprised to hear Barry Bonds admits to taking steroids? I am surprised that the public he disappoints will make him richer by buying a book that brags how much he has disappointed us. Why does the press write articles as if we did not expect this. For once I would like to see a headline like "Barry Bonds the addict we all knew he was!!!"

Sorry for the rant, bad mood 2 kids and a husband with the flu or strep since Friday.

[gabbyh]

What a crime! My son called me ranting & raving about him...he feels that Pete Rose should be put in the Hall of Fame...not this drug addict! And I must admit...I agree!

~Gail

[jking323]

I am a big sports fan, but I always tell my kids that these are not the people to hold out as heros. I have to ask, was anyone surprised to hear Barry Bonds admits to taking steroids? I am surprised that the public he disappoints will make him richer by buying a book that brags how much he has disappointed us. Why does the press write articles as if we did not expect this. For once I would like to see a headline like "Barry Bonds the addict we all knew he was!!!"

Sorry for the rant, bad mood 2 kids and a husband with the flu or strep since Friday.

He hasn't admitted it at all, as far as I know. The book isn't his, it was written by a couple of San Francisco reporters who've been covering the story for a few years. He of course vehemently denies everything (but the sounds are coming from his abnormally swollen head, so the credibility is a little flimsy). He'll make no money from this, but those guys sure will.

Personally, I think they should strip him of all records he's set since around 1997, and apply a reduction factor to all his stats since then. And oh yeah, he should be barred for life from the Hall. Pete made a few stupid bets, Charlie Hustle's skills were enhanced only by God and his own mean-spiritedness.

[Dfen911]

Didn't surprise me at all. And what really gets my goat is that we pay these people MILLIONS of dollars to play BALL and CHEAT!

Why is these guys get millions, but our teachers, police officers, firefighters, caregivers are paid next to nothing?

Disgusting and one of the reasons why I hate sports.

[Wendy w]

Didn't surprise me at all. And what really gets my goat is that we pay these people MILLIONS of dollars to play BALL and CHEAT!

Why is these guys get millions, but our teachers, police officers, firefighters, caregivers are paid next to nothing?

Disgusting and one of the reasons why I hate sports.

Amen. You hit the nail on the head.

[Peggy]

Didn't surprise me at all. And what really gets my goat is that we pay these people MILLIONS of dollars to play BALL and CHEAT!

Why is these guys get millions, but our teachers, police officers, firefighters, caregivers are paid next to nothing?

Disgusting and one of the reasons why I hate sports.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Peggy

[blazedog]

I would only be surprised to find out that a professional athlete is not taking performance enhancing drugs frankly. The farce of those in charge claiming to be "SHOCKED" when they all rake in huge amounts of money precisely because the athletes are performance enhanced.

As to the equities which reward athletes above others in society, they are paid what they are paid because the owners and media make even more money by owning and exhibiting them in games -- pure and simple.

When as many people choose to attend a perfomance of the Symphony or the Alvin Ailey's ballet troupe as attend a sports event, the dancers and classical musicians can command those kinds of dollars.

I am leaving out entirely those other worthy contributors to society such as teachers since one's contribution to society generally bears an inverse relationship to one's take home pay.

As to what that says about the taste and sensibilities of most people -- I will let you, the reader, draw your own conclusions. :D

[MaryH]

He hasn't admitted it at all, as far as I know. The book isn't his, it was written by a couple of San Francisco reporters who've been covering the story for a few years. He of course vehemently denies everything (but the sounds are coming from his abnormally swollen head, so the credibility is a little flimsy). He'll make no money from this, but those guys sure will.

Dead on.

The news articles are based on excerpts from the book the reporters are releasing. The book is scheduled for release at the end of March. What struck me was the lawyer's response on Bond's behalf. Basically it says he's ignoring all this. If, as that statement implies, it is all based on unreliable reports, that lawyer would have filed a slander suit and/or sought an injunction against publication of the book so fast.......

Basically, I feel that the authors back up most, if not all of their claims with various statements from numerous sources. Their articles in the SF Chronicle led to the BALCO investigation (which in turn led to convictions) as well as MLB's "new" anti-doping policies.

And although I am loathe to say this, I have a feeling that somewhere down the line, Armstrong will also be implicated. Performance enhancing drugs are not limited to ones that can be tested for (although that seems to be the mind set of the athletes when they say they've never used "steroids".).

[jking323]

And although I am loathe to say this, I have a feeling that somewhere down the line, Armstrong will also be implicated. Performance enhancing drugs are not limited to ones that can be tested for (although that seems to be the mind set of the athletes when they say they've never used "steroids".).

That's nagging me, too. According to a friend of mine from France--who actually follows cycling--if Lance isn't doping, he's practically the only exception. At least a few years ago, the practice was so widespread in the sport that it was just taken as fact. If there are any cyclists out there that can refute or corroborate this, I defer to you. I only have the one source.

[Laura]

Didn't surprise me at all. And what really gets my goat is that we pay these people MILLIONS of dollars to play BALL and CHEAT!

Why is these guys get millions, but our teachers, police officers, firefighters, caregivers are paid next to nothing?

Disgusting and one of the reasons why I hate sports.

While there are many out there who cheat, this to me is kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water. There are those out there who are successful who don't cheat. As for paying them millions, are they worth it? Compared to what we pay teachers, police, soldiers, heck no. But I think a highly skilled athlete is more deserving of the money than a most of the actors and actresses out there. I simply find athletic competition and what it takes to get to that level more inspiring than movie/television business. Even for Lance, while I hope that he is not doping, and I would never condone it if he did, from what I understand, more than anything, he was the best prepared athlete out there. You could not pay me enough money to train for the Tour, doping or not.

Finally, I grew up as a non-athlete. I was on a swim team for one year, but was never really good enough to play on a team. My kids have been involved in sports since they were little. My son is just now starting to excel at swimming. They have learned valuable lessons from sports, the rewards of hard work, the frustrations when it doesn't produce results, discipline. I think sports can add value to a person's life.

[luvItalian]

I realize those guys will make money on the book, but Barry will do very well. I can see him on Oprah now..... I wonder if she will believe every word he says. Nah... she has learned her lesson. My point is mainly the way the press makes it sound as if none of us saw this coming. As if we would be surprised by the book's allegations.

[blazedog]

Finally, I grew up as a non-athlete. I was on a swim team for one year, but was never really good enough to play on a team. My kids have been involved in sports since they were little. My son is just now starting to excel at swimming. They have learned valuable lessons from sports, the rewards of hard work, the frustrations when it doesn't produce results, discipline. I think sports can add value to a person's life.

I have nothing against sports per se as they have a place in any well rounded life.

What I question is the obsession with SPORTS achievement as opposed to other forms of achievement which are more worthy of respect. There are all kinds of pursuits which build character and show the rewards of discipline and hard work -- why single out sports.

This isn't directed against you or your child in any way who I assume excels at any number of things.

My real beef is why the larger society that funds millions for high school football teams and shows up to support them en masse while it provides scant funds for music, dance and other forms of enriched curriculum.

[Beth H]

My real beef is why the larger society that funds millions for high school football teams and shows up to support them en masse while it provides scant funds for music, dance and other forms of enriched curriculum.

Well, I think you mean why do people buy tickets for high school football and not necessarily other sports. To be a bit of a devil's advocate, in most high schools the gate receipts from football (and in some high schools, from basketball) fund all of the other sports like lacrosse, volleyball, swimming, etc. which lose money. So - there are some benefits to football. This is not to say, however, that the arts or other things should be neglected. In the ideal world, all of these things would be well supported.

As for Barry Bonds - not surprised, just saddened for baseball. His chase for Aaron's all-time HR record would have been something truly exciting - now it's meaningless.

[badunnin]

Didn't surprise me at all. And what really gets my goat is that we pay these people MILLIONS of dollars to play BALL and CHEAT!

Why is these guys get millions, but our teachers, police officers, firefighters, caregivers are paid next to nothing?

Disgusting and one of the reasons why I hate sports.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, I agree with Laura who said why throw out the baby with the bathwater. As a society we obviously have a need to watch this type of entertainment/competition. One of my close friends is a professional hockey player - he makes a living out of playing a sport. He's not a smart guy, but he has skill and talent that are prized in our society, and he's making a living for his family, just like many others I know. The VAST majority of the professional athletes I know are great human beings that don't cheat and don't abuse the system.

Additionally, if you aren't surprised, why are you angry?

[Laura]

I have nothing against sports per se as they have a place in any well rounded life.

What I question is the obsession with SPORTS achievement as opposed to other forms of achievement which are more worthy of respect. There are all kinds of pursuits which build character and show the rewards of discipline and hard work -- why single out sports.

This isn't directed against you or your child in any way who I assume excels at any number of things.

My real beef is why the larger society that funds millions for high school football teams and shows up to support them en masse while it provides scant funds for music, dance and other forms of enriched curriculum.

I think that is a valid complaint. At my DDs high school, the principal started a group called Moran's maniacs (the principal's last name was Moran) and basically it was a group of students with t-shirts to match that not only committed to show up to girls field hockey, but also to choir performances and plays. As a result all of those events are very well attended. My response was not that you couldn't build character through other activities. I just was pointing out that those in the entertainment industry get paid millions of dollars too, but the backlash didn't seem to be against them.

FWIW, swimming has been the saving grace for my son. He is one of those bright kids according to the standardized tests that has never done well in school. Swimming is a tough sport; it is year round and there isn't a lot of glory associated with it. For him, when he was struggling for so many years with schooling, it was the place where he could feel good about himself. Fortunately, we seem to have turned a corner with school, but I even think that is the result of the discipline that he has learned. For someone else, it may be playing an instrument or painting. I just can see first-hand what it has done in our family.

[bobmark226]

What I question is the obsession with SPORTS achievement as opposed to other forms of achievement which are more worthy of respect.

Why is it more worthy to be able to stand en pointe than it is to hit a tough slider into the stands, hitting a baseball being one of the most difficult things in the world to do?

I'll bet I've been to thousands of more arts performances than you have, but I still love sports as being their equal. I've had as much fun watching Baryshinokov and Farrell together as I did seeing Cecil Fielder bang in dingers at Fenway Park.

Cultural snobbism is what it is.

Bob

[blazedog]

Why is it more worthy to be able to stand en pointe than it is to hit a tough slider into the stands, hitting a baseball being one of the most difficult things in the world to do?

I'll bet I've been to thousands of more arts performances than you have, but I still love sports as being their equal. I've had as much fun watching Baryshinokov and Farrell together as I did seeing Cecil Fielder bang in dingers at Fenway Park.

Cultural snobbism is what it is.

Bob

I had no idea I had a shadow tailing me at every turn keeping track of everything I spent money on or attended in the past decades. I will definitely have to keep closer track the next time I attend a cultural event to see who is snapping my photo to report back to the great bobmark in his lair.

I have no idea of where you spend your time and recreational dollars and, frankly, I have zilch interest.

[Aubergine]

Why is it more worthy to be able to stand en pointe than it is to hit a tough slider into the stands, hitting a baseball being one of the most difficult things in the world to do?

I'll bet I've been to thousands of more arts performances than you have, but I still love sports as being their equal. I've had as much fun watching Baryshinokov and Farrell together as I did seeing Cecil Fielder bang in dingers at Fenway Park.

Cultural snobbism is what it is. Bob

but, of course, you've just proven that you're not a snob.

as an apparent balletomane, perhaps you'd like to comment on where you stand with regard to the wildly unhealthy (and, at times, very extreme) issues that the big $$$ dance community make common practice.

[bobmark226]

but, of course, you've just proven that you're not a snob.

I think your time would be better spent writing checks to the people you've ripped off! :D

Bob

[Beth]

No, I'm not surprised at all by any of what is being written or said about Barry Bonds. I'm disappointed that our children and society as a whole have few icons they can truly honor and want to emulate.

I won't be showing my kids this thread for any examples either.

[boisewinesnob]

Why is it more worthy to be able to stand en pointe than it is to hit a tough slider into the stands, hitting a baseball being one of the most difficult things in the world to do?

Cultural snobbism is what it is.

Bob

Good point. BTW, I don't think taking steroids helps anybody read a pitch better, throw accurately, make diving catches in the outfield because they got a good read on the ball, etc. Not in any way am I saying taking steroids is OK....it is not. But all it improves is strength. Not skill.

[bobmark226]

No, I'm not surprised at all by any of what is being written or said about Barry Bonds. I'm disappointed that our children and society as a whole have few icons they can truly honor and want to emulate.

I won't be showing my kids this thread for any examples either.

LOL, Beth, but I never aspired to be anybody's role model. :)

Besides, my boyhood idol was the Red Sox' zany Jimmy ("Fear Strikes Out") Piersall, famous for running the bases backwards and not always appreciated by management for his remarks, and look how well I turned out! :rolleyes:

Bob

[Beth]

Whether you chose to be or not, we are all role models -- just not all good ones, and none of us all the time.

Bob, I think you turned out fine, and I'm sure Balzedog and at least nearly all the others here have too. I just really tire at the apparent need to take snipes at one another.

[blazedog]

This isn't entirely on topic but I am really getting PO'ed.

For the record I posted an opinion which took great pains not to personalize as to any of the posts that were responded to and I believe the original poster understood this and responded in kind in terms of explaining how swimming helped her son come into himself - which I totally got. Nor was it my original intent to say that sports are unworthy -- merely that other abilities sometimes get short shrift.

Some poster whose name I won't repeat then took it upon itself to take one sentence in my post out of context in order to demean me.

I then responded to that specific unasked for piece of nastiness.

So are we not supposed to in anyway acknowledge when an individual poster spews vitriol?

I really don't understand the dynamics of why this kind of sniping is permitted -- Sometimes discussions get heated and feathers get ruffled but that is different than someone coming out of the blue to make a nasty comment for what purpose I can only surmise since it had nothing to do with any of the issues being discussed.

[Beth]

If you're pointing at me, I don't think I said anything "nasty."

This thread took a turn for the worse before I ever saw it. I don't understand the need for that. I also understand that some days we all have raw nerves and some people can get on them better than others (I have 2 sons, after all), but I tire of the fact that it can't seem to let up. There are a handful of people, most of whom I have enjoyed reading their posts or corresponding with -- consider good folk, but then I see them sniping at each other. I understand it sometimes for anyone, don't see why it has to continue.

I understood your point. I also understood Bob's. And Aubergine's. Although each successive post seemd to get more edge to it, they are all valid points. Granted, getting away from the original topic, but valid conversation. Could be made with less edge though.

If my dad were here, he'd make you guys kiss and make up. We'd all chuckle then and get over it. :p

I wish it could be that simple. It doesn't have to be like this.

Maybe folks should go back and reread all the posts and vow not to type anything until they think carefully about what was really said. Each side was expressing appreciation for sports and arts -- was the gap really that wide? I think not. And that's what's crazy about it all. You two are so ready to be angry that you can't see how much you agree! :rolleyes:

I am reminded of a story about how Barry Bonds couldn't accept a gift from another player/friend without returning the favor and one-upping the friend. Now -- we are back to Barry Bonds.

[blazedog]

Beth -- For the record, I didn't read your post as nasty.

However, I would have to ask what purpose a statement such as and I am quoting

I'll bet I've been to thousands of more arts performances than you have,

except to be gratuitously nasty -- Sorry but I don't perceive my viewing this as a gratuitously nasty response which was posted solely to score perceived "points" as my being over-sensitive? The remark is so utterly ridiculous and I attempted to treat it as such -- in my sole response to it.

And perhaps I am missing the good natured humor in responding to another poster:

I think your time would be better spent writing checks to the people you've ripped off!

with respect to another person's post.

I am genuinely curious as to why we are all then tarred with the same collective brush -- as in one person is allowed to be nasty but those to whom he is nasty are just supposed to let it go or risk recriminations for making the atmosphere uncomfortable.

Again, Beth I didn't think your post was offensive or meant ill to me nor did I take it as such.

[bobmark226]

I'll bet I've been to thousands of more arts performances than you have,

I'm sure I have. I have a log and a massive collection of programs and playbills. Why would that be nasty or bother you?


I think your time would be better spent writing checks to the people you've ripped off!

Because she's ripped off posters at several boards? You think I should respect her? Need proof? Notice she hasn't protested?

Well, sorry, but when a poster makes a statement that one thing (arts) is more worthy of respect than another (sports), I still call it "cultural snobbism." I see this many times at book boards, where readers suggest that they are somehow a superior species to people who don't read, and I always take exception to it. I didn't call the poster names, didn't call her a "snot" or "it," but she's apparently bringing other issues to the table.

As for the rest of that post, there was her typical sweeping generalization, painting all athletes:


I would only be surprised to find out that a professional athlete is not taking performance enhancing drugs frankly.

That's about as defensible a remark as "all lawyers are slimeballs."

Blazedog knows that Jennifer will remove any personal slams at the click of the notification button. She could have used that, but, as always, the reality is that she refuses to be contradicted, which is funny, considering all the pronouncements and gross generalizations she routinely puts forth. It's either her didactic way or no way at all.

Bob

[aggie94]

That's about as defensible a remark as "all lawyers are slimeballs."

Hey, why is everybody always picking on me? How about giving us hard-working lawyers a break and instead using the analogy of "All car salesmen are sleazy." Oh wait, that one is true. ;) :p

Kidding, people.

[Beth]

I'm not going to get drawn into the crossfire -- I think you both are overly sensitive. I understand where you're coming from, but why don't you walkk away and come back later -- try to approach things with a fresh view and an open mind? Is it possible?

Signed,
One who really doesn't care how many plays, ballets, operas, symphonies, concerts, football games, basketball games, baseball games, tennis matches, golf tournaments, mud wrestling matches or NASCAR races anyone has been to, but does care about being able to carry on a civil conversation.

I'm going back to working on a grant application and working on my kitchen plans. Hope to make greater progress there.

[Beth]

Hey, why is everybody always picking on me? How about giving us hard-working lawyers a break and instead using the analogy of "All car salesmen are sleazy." Oh wait, that one is true. ;) :p

Kidding, people.

:D :D :D

need more letters