Revisiting the # of children subject

[Blissful_in_TX]

I know this is something no one can answer but myself (and DH ;) ), but I need help thinking this through. We have an almost 2-year-old DS and are seriously considering adopting a baby girl from China. However due to certain requirements, we probably won’t be able to get her until roughly November 2007 (at which point she’d be around 12 months old). This is a new decision for us, because we had always planned on having 2 biological children. However for some unexplainable reason I’m drawn to international adoption and would love to have a baby girl. And of course if we have a biological child, there are no guarantees of that. So the question is: do we want to have another biological child as well? (which would be 2 biological and 1 adopted, all under the age of 4)

To cut to the chase, DH is no spring chicken (approaching 43), and we want them close together b/c I’m sure later we’ll be looking forward to the next chapter in our lives. So, if we want another biological child, we need to start ttc SOON. Part of me is reluctant because I am so not looking forward to pregnancy, labor & delivery, nursing, and those challenging infant months again. (DS was an extremely colicky, high maintenance baby.) But at the same time, I’m afraid I’ll look back and regret not having another. (even though two was our original “plan” to begin with :confused: ) We have the resources and room so that’s not an issue. But in the next couple years we’ll be selling our house, moving, and building a fully custom home, which is a bit of an issue.

I don’t know!! Can anyone comment on the 2 vs. 3 children from their own personal experience? Especially if your DH was 40+? Your candor is appreciated. :)

[jellyben]

Your candor is appreciated. :)

Well, since you are looking for candor...

I had 3 kids in 5 years, and now that the baby is 3.5, I am FINALLY beginning to feel like I have my head above water. #3 was something of a surprise. We had our 2 noys and were on the fence about having a third(we were told #2 was a girl, so we had all these girl clothes!) and we had seriously looked into int'l adoption as an option when #2 was 4 or 5. Well, best laid plans and all, #3 came along when #2 was not quite 2. Throw in a cross country move away from all friends and family and I was feeling overwelmed. I think that some people have the patience and personality to deal wonderfully with the demands of 3 little kids, but I just felt myself being pushed and pulled in too many directions. I would see families with 2 kids and actually get jealous. Now, they are more manageable, we can go out in public without being embarassed(usually!), and we are starting to have more fun with them. Only you know yourself well enough to know what you can handle, but I sometimes feel extremely guilty that I shortchanged them somehow.

I really did not enjoy being pregnant like some women do, and I never felt this burning need to be pregnant, and I had always felt like adoption was a very viable option for us. Obviously, I wouldn't give up my kids for anything, and I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But in my eyes, 3 kids just seems like so much more work than 2. However, DH and I joke that we have increased our chances of having someone willing to take care of us in our old age!

Good luck.

[Canice]

I think it's so cool that you've got a tug to adopt a little girl who could be a wonderful part of your family, and who needs a real "forever home". :)

Question: If you decided to do both the adoption and the bio baby, would it be logistically possible? You said you would ttc "SOON" and I wonder if that would effect your ability to travel abroad to finalize the adoption? Would your pregnancy/having an infant at home be an issue for the overseas agencies?
Separately, you said you would consider doing both because you'd "always planned on having two biological children". I don't know quite how to word this, but just because you'd "always planned on" it doesn't mean you *have* to. If you really want a girl, and are drawn to international adoption, and there are little girls who desperately need stable, loving families........

[cminmd]

We are having the opposite situation. We adopted two children and now we are considering having a third. We were not even thinking about it, but then I found out I was pregnant. It was quite a wow moment as we had always been told we would have to undergo infertility treatments to conceive and instead- bam. But it was not to be and about a month later I had a miscarriage. The only lucky thing was we had not shared the news with our families so we didn't have to make that round of phone calls!
We adopted though the state so while we didn't have to pony up 40K, we also spent a while in court and wondering what the outcome would be. Long story, but a happy one. We had always wanted two children- boy and girl. We were asked if we would consider adopting both because they had never been seperated, but if we wanted the boy we could adopt just him. They had not found anyone willing to take both. When we met them we knew we couldn't break up the band so we took them both and just decided we would adopt two. We really didn't ever think about having a third. Something about them outnumbering you-scary! Now that they are older it is easier consider having another one. The thing that might be strange about adopting and having at the same time is you could have baby number two, adopt number three, but three would be older than two. Also, adoption agencies might not let you be pregnant because of the whole need to travel at short notice requirement. You can't jet to China for a month at 7 months because you couldn't fly back when you need to.
I strongly encourage adoption. We have loved it. We have so many friends, relatives and churchmembers who have adopted internationally or through the state. So far all have had very good experiences. Good luck.

[615bride]

You've probably already thought of this but make sure you do all of your research on the spacing requirements (if any) between children. DH and I were ready to accept a referral for a Guatemalan baby last year when I unexpectedly became pregnant. The agency would not let us continue with the adoption process because there would not be a natural birth order with a year between siblings. Just something to consider. Good luck with your decision!

[jmarie]

I always had a yearning to adopt....but DH refused. :( God bless you for caring about the little people who are already here. My nephew adopted a little girl from China and she has been the most wonderful addition to our family. I cannot imagine a family get-together without her, now.
Joyce

[Blissful_in_TX]

If you decided to do both the adoption and the bio baby, would it be logistically possible? You said you would ttc "SOON" and I wonder if that would effect your ability to travel abroad to finalize the adoption?

I’m hoping that we would be able to time it so our bio baby would be at least 6 months and hopefully closer to 12 months at the time. So he/she could stay back with my mom. But if it is taking me a really long time to get pg, I honestly think we’d skip it all together and focus on the adoption.


You've probably already thought of this but make sure you do all of your research on the spacing requirements (if any) between children. DH and I were ready to accept a referral for a Guatemalan baby last year when I unexpectedly became pregnant. The agency would not let us continue with the adoption process because there would not be a natural birth order with a year between siblings. Just something to consider. Good luck with your decision!

Hadn't seen that requirement, but definitely something I need to clarify. Thanks!

[615bride]

Blissful- Just to clarify, ours was an agency requirement or "rule" not one handed down from Guatemala so you might be fine... Just wanted you to check into it :)

[Ann1965]

After years of miscarriages, fertility treatments and a tubal pregnancy, we finally got to bring home our wonder son. Two years later after more fertility treatments, I buried my beautiful daughter who was stillborn at 32 weeks. We tried afterwards, but fate was not on our side. I would have loved to have adopted but could never convince DH to do so. We both turned 40 last year and would still adopt if he said he would. For the record, I loved being pregnant, I loved giving birth. Please don't take for granted that healthy children are always the outcome of a positive pregnancy test! I say go for it. I love my son but there are disadvantages to being an only child. He is much more comfortable talking with adults than kids his own age. In some ways is very mature and in others is lacking. He is the only child in his class without a sibling and for many years asked for another baby sister. I would have given my life so my daughter could have lived.

[newtricks]

I would see families with 2 kids and actually get jealous.

OMG! I have felt this too! My kids are stairstep 8, 6, and 4 exactly 25 months apart. (almost like we planned it that way which is soooo not true). It's great now but was pretty difficult early on. I would certainly do it again because I love having 3 kids. I'm one of 4 and wanted my kids to have lots of siblings. We stopped at 3 though because dh stated at the outset that he didn't want to have any more kids after he turned 40 because his dad was in his late 40's when he was born and died when dh was in college. So that was his thing.

I think it's great that you're thinking about adoption. I like what Canice had to say about it. Good luck with everything. You've got a lot of thinking to do! :)

[Chelle D]

Blissful- No advice, just wanted to say that I will be watching you with interest and wondered if you have ever thought of any of the possible conflicts with 1 bio and 1 adopted of another ethnicity. DH and are will probably be in a very similiar situation in a couple years.

Our DS is 11 months old and is the result of a couple years of ivf. After I lost both fallopian tubes (ectopic pregnancies), I looked extensively into adoption and then decided I wanted to try to get pg and do that once. Now that I have, I still have a longing for another and DH really feels pulled toward adopting a girl from China. I have worries about 1 bio and 1 adopted and also trying to incorporate the culture of a Chinese girl into our family. I don't know why I am so worried, but I think it's just that I want the little girl who will be my daughter to be 100% comfortable in my family and me with her. I think once I talk to people that have adopted and that have been in my situation, all will be better. Right now, I just have reservations. I am also a little worried about having one that is biologically ours and one that is not.

Saying that, I truly believe that I will love an adopted child as if it were biologically mine, that is really not my concern. My concern is for the adopted child, and the culture. Do you have any views on that? Do you know people that have adopted internationally after a bio child? I think I just need to talk to people that have been there/done that and all is groovy :)

I know that we will adopt if we have another and I am leaning toward international, but I don't have a gender or country preference.

[tbb113]

I have an acquaintence who has a bio son and an adopted daughter from China. When I run into her, everybody seems very happy and content.

[Chelle D]

Thanks Tyra. How old are the kids? Does your friend do anything to incorporate Asian culter into the family? I think I have read about an organization that gets together girls adopted from China and celebrates their culture and has the parents join in. I will have to look into that. I just have a big desire to make sure to keep some culture there. I think it's because I was a history major and I'm always interested in biographies/social histories, etc.

[tbb113]

Chelle - I think the daughter is now somewhere between 8 and 10 (time flies) and the son is 18 or 19.

They belong to the same temple that we do and we used to be in a Havurah (friendship circle) with them. The havurah stopped getting together and I still see them occasionally at the temple, but I'm not close to them so I don't know if they do anything Chinese with Julia.

I know that many people who do adopt a foreign child, try and teach them about their original culture. Helene (HRJ) adopted a son from Guatemala and I know she does expose him to other adopted families with children from Guatemala.

[tbb113]

One more thought...my brother is adopted (he is 3 years older than I am) and I am a bio kid. I know my parents love us equally and I have never thought he wasn't my 'real' brother. Matter of fact, I always thought he was luckier than me...he KNOWS my parents wanted him, I could have been an accident :)

I will say...it does surprise me when siblings look a lot alike since my brother and I don't look that similiar. Surprisingly my older son reminds me of my brother

[rosie_one]

Ann I've had good friends go through a stillborn child loss too. So hard... I'm sorry for your loss. It is good to share it even though it is hard to hear.

I think the decision of the third is a very difficult one if you are on the fence. My girlfriend Karen says "If only I'd grown a 3rd arm with the 3rd child, I'd be fine." :D My other girlfriend went for the 3rd and ended up with twins!! Zoinks. Now, that is a challenge. They are almost 4 now and she has yet to come up for air. DH and I have 2 kids, 2.5 years apart. Many of my girlfriends have gone for the third, but we just knew we were "full". I don't know how else to explain it. Part of it, I have to admit, is that need to be able to go back to my "regular" life. I loved having little ones, but it was a big departure for me to be a baby mom and it isn't true to my core character. My best friend though, is a mommy type through and through, she is adoping her fourth... a little girl from China. They don't have a match yet but anticipate one soon. I can't wait to meet her. :) They are so giving. She's a lucky girl, whoever she is.

I think the difference between me, being done after two, and my friend, who is thrilled and ready for her fourth, is how much at the core she is a mommy. I've known her since 2nd grade and she was always the best babysitter on the block, the first to volunteer to be a girl scout aide etc... So she really wants this small child phase in her life to continue for another few years. I'm very ready to move on to the cool, get your kids engaged with science and travel and clubs and sports and all that fun stuff phase.

I'm not sure if all this rambling helps you... I hope so! Good luck.

[sillybeans]

As an adoptive mother (I brought my son home from Korea in December; my husband is also Korean and we have no bio kids) I would be most concerned about the "artificial twinning" aspect. Korea does not allow parents with children under the age of 1 to receive a referral, and our agency here in the states requires that ALL parents agree to cease fertility treatments.

Think very carefully about the logistics of caring for 2 young children--especially with regard to attachment. Regardless of when you start the process, a child from China will likely be at least 10 months old by the time she comes home. She will probably have been in institutional care. To form a proper attachment, you and your husband will have to be her only caretakers for the first couple of months. She will be on a different time zone entirely. She may reject you. She may also have developmental delays from being in a orphanage. Yes, children are resilient, but they also thrive on routine, and hers will be disrupted. YOU will be jet lagged beyond your comprehension. It's a very hard adjustment. Adding a 6-month bio child into the mix will make things even harder.

There are financial issues as well--especially if you're a working Mom. Most companies have no maternity leave for adoption. FMLA can only be taken once in 12 months. I'm sure you're aware of the costs associated with Chinese adoption--figure on the high side of the range you're given. I've never met anyone who said their adoption was LESS then they thought.

A reputable agency will help prepare you for parenting a child of another race (which was rather ironic, as my bio children would have been of another race). Adoption isn't a painless process that allows one to skip pregnancy and come home with a "perfect" child (I'm oversimplifying here, obviously). There are a lot of factors to consider, and a trained social worker can help you examine them.
Best,
Tracy

[blazedog]

I can't offer personal advice on 2 versus 3 except through my friends and 3 children is exponentially more difficult than 2.

What I would suggest your considering is why you feel that you might miss something if you don't have a second biological child. It's almost as if an adoptive child would not fulfill the same needs as a biological child.

I especially ask this because you wrote that you didn't particularly enjoy the experience of being pregnant or giving birth-- therefore except for the genetic connection, there would no reason why you particularly want a third child.

Again, it's not as though from what you wrote that I got the sense that you have a burning desire to have 3 children -- only that you wanted to adopt a Chinese girl and thought you might regret not having a second biological child -- which would then make your family 3.

[LakeMartinGal]

FWIW, I never thought that kids should outnumber parents... but if my parents had felt that way, I wouldn't be here!

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2 DD's (now 28 and 30), but I wouldn't have given you a nickel for another one. I was/am not a naturally nurturing person, and continually ran out of patience. We had trouble conceiving, and were about to go the adoption route when DD #1 was on the way.

I guess what I really want to say is... if you are a religious person, pray for the answer. It will come clear -- listen to all the "logical" reasons for and against, then follow your heart. And, good luck to you ;)

[beacooker]

My advice would be: take 1 step at a time. If you are sure you want at least 1 more child, decide whether your next child should be adopted or biological. Then follow through, and after you know what the experience of 2 kids is like, decide if you want the 3rd. DH and I used to say we wanted a ton of kids. Then we had our 2nd, and decided that was plenty for us.

Good luck!

[Blissful_in_TX]

Blissful- No advice, just wanted to say that I will be watching you with interest and wondered if you have ever thought of any of the possible conflicts with 1 bio and 1 adopted of another ethnicity.

Wow, I can’t believe it’s only been 2.5 weeks since I started this thread! It seems so much longer…..since then I’ve delved head-first into choosing an agency, researching the requirements, gathering papers, etc. To answer your question, no, I really haven’t thought of any conflict between a bio and adopted child. Like your DH, I have an unexplainable strong pull to adopt from China. Honestly, I feel like there is a little girl out there (who may not even be conceived yet!), and I already feel like she’s my daughter. I am a little concerned how some of the general public may treat her differently and how she might feel about that, but I still have a lot of reading to do on the subject before I decide the best way to face it.

But if having a bio and adopted child is something you have reservations about, you might want to attend a local FCC (Families with Children from China) gathering, and talk to other people who have been through the same thing. You can find your local chapter on their website at http://www.fwcc.org/. (We attended a local FCC meeting over the weekend.) I think it’s so good for these young girls to see other girls who look like them and also have different looking families.

I also joined the Adoptive Parents China (APC) yahoo group, and while the format takes a bit of getting used to, it is a wealth of information, and there are many, many people with both bio and adopted children who could share their experience with you. And the topic of how to incorporate their Chinese culture comes up frequently.

[Blissful_in_TX]

Again, it's not as though from what you wrote that I got the sense that you have a burning desire to have 3 children -- only that you wanted to adopt a Chinese girl and thought you might regret not having a second biological child -- which would then make your family 3.

It’s true that I don’t have a burning desire to have another biological child. I DO in my heart want to adopt. However DH now has the strong desire for BOTH. So if I’m on the fence about it, and he feels strongly about it, then what? Very recently they’re anticipating a major slow-down in Chinese adoptions, and if that happens we would almost definitely need to have bio child first (if that’s what we decide to do) and then adopt when we’re finally matched (which in our situation probably won’t be for a couple years). So doing it the other way around (though it would be good for points that Tracy and Anne brought up) just doesn’t seem feasible for us b/c we would still be in the baby phase of our life way later than we planned. I still don’t know what to do! I go back and forth at least a couple times a day. :confused:

[blazedog]

It’s true that I don’t have a burning desire to have another biological child. I DO in my heart want to adopt. However DH now has the strong desire for BOTH. So if I’m on the fence about it, and he feels strongly about it, then what? Very recently they’re anticipating a major slow-down in Chinese adoptions, and if that happens we would almost definitely need to have bio child first (if that’s what we decide to do) and then adopt when we’re finally matched (which in our situation probably won’t be for a couple years). So doing it the other way around (though it would be good for points that Tracy and Anne brought up) just doesn’t seem feasible for us b/c we would still be in the baby phase of our life way later than we planned. I still don’t know what to do! I go back and forth at least a couple times a day. :confused:

Okay if I now understand correctly, your husband has a desire for 3 children but you lean towards 2.

My own experience with decision making is that one has to separate the decisions -- in this case you are intertwining the decision to have two or three children with the decision to adopt.

I think the threshold issue is to determine between your husband and yourself whether you really want 3 children -- again I am sensing that you lean towards 2 but your husband leans toward 3.

Is your husband the principal child caretaker? :D :D

I think the issue of number of children is one faced by many families -- first make that decision -- one that both of you are comfortable with.

Then the answer will be clear -- again -- and pardon me if I am reading something into this because cyberspace makes it hard to discuss nuances -- but I am sensing that your husband (but not you) is differentiating between biological children and adopted children. I would personally not bring an adopted child into a family if one of the partners felt that one was more of their "real" child than the other.

I do understand the urge for a biological child of course so that's not a value judgment. On the other hand, my cousin adopted two children and (as many have posted) could not possibly love or be happier with his family than if they carried his DNA.

[Blissful_in_TX]

but I am sensing that your husband (but not you) is differentiating between biological children and adopted children.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Honestly I think he’d be just as happy with 1 bio and 2 adopted. I think I’d be happy with that too. The only downside is that the process is so long that it will be many years before our family is “complete”. It also makes me a little nervous to think we could be going through this whole process and then in a couple years China could change their rules or something where everything falls through. I’ll talk to him and see what he thinks about adopting 2, or at least deciding whether or not to adopt another after the first.